There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
> > It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
Thanks for your response,
That’s a shame, Assailing Force could have really done with a slight change/rework before M15. Because of its design (doesn’t scale with debuffs) it makes it really weak for endgame content. The way players would like it to work is already in game right now, in M14, the Shatter component of Shatter Strike which deals damage that scales with Debuffs. It could also do with a proc chance increase to make it more consistent.
Oh well I guess for M15, we’ll just have to run without a DPS capstone.
> Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time? > > > > It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
I suggest you look into Assailing force and abyss of chaos. I understand that they are not intended to work with *debuff* but you guys never stated that they shouldn't scale with buffs. At the moment Assailing only works with chilling presence and power even though in combat log assailing is labelled as *arcane damage*, while abyss of chaos only works with power.
I noticed a lot of you guys talking about assailing being 8% and so on but I'll have to inform you guys that the method you've used to test is not a reliable method at all. All the method you guys use, I'm pretty sure it was solo without any outside dmg % buff and you guys didn't even take the time to notice what buffs actually affects these two feats *Assailing and abyss of chaos*. Neither of these two needs a buff as you guys call for but what they do need is the ability to scale with buffs properly. Heck even making it scale with debuff will push it's dmg even more
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
1
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
Bug: Destructive Wizardry is no longer working with Storm Pillar fully charged, seem to broke with the pillar changes. Not sure if anyone reported this since I did not read every page.
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
As far as imprisonment goes I would like to propose replacing it with "Haste." Haste would have a base duration of 22 seconds, would have a base AP gain of 8.8% and the effect would be as follows:
For 3/3.5/4/4.5 seconds, increase the groups action speed by 50%. Increasing action speed would be a multiplier on movement speed, attack speed (so animations play faster and can be spammed faster) and would add 25% to recharge speed increase during the duration. Furthermore, it would reduce internal cooldowns of powers in a similar manner to recovery, with a "cooldown recovery" value of 50%. It would be an Arcane Power and, like Imprisonment it would still be a utility power. The power would have a very short animation, as having a long animation would clash with it being an action speed buff.
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
That is a pity. I am actually really surprised you went that way, I thought that it made sense to implement unstoppable in such a way since it seemed impractical to me that every skill would have 2 animations to make a single mechanic function.
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
That's a somewhat misleading way of assessing its value.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
That's a somewhat misleading way of assessing its value.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
So yes, it's pretty bad.
Let's compare the 5% crit chance, which is you say equivalent to 2x R14 enchants. Now let's make a hypothetical situation where it's actually a 5% DPS buff instead of crit chance buff.
At 250k power - a pretty standard amount in the endgame groups - 5% DPS more is the equivalent of 14.5k power.
So no, 5% crit chance is not good.
2
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
That's a somewhat misleading way of assessing its value.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
So yes, it's pretty bad.
I don't see why you take issue with that feat when there are MUCH worse ones (snap freeze anybody?). Not every feat will be best, but this still isn't bad. Before crit was turned into a linear stat it was extremely useful. While in the current situation an endgame player wouldn't have use for it (they don't use almost 3/5th of the feats afterall), but it still is okay.
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
That's a somewhat misleading way of assessing its value.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
So yes, it's pretty bad.
I don't see why you take issue with that feat when there are MUCH worse ones (snap freeze anybody?). Not every feat will be best, but this still isn't bad. Before crit was turned into a linear stat it was extremely useful. While in the current situation an endgame player wouldn't have use for it (they don't use almost 3/5th of the feats afterall), but it still is okay.
I take issue with the feat because it is bad for the reasons outlined previously. It's extremely unfortunate that it loses value the better you and your party are equipped, eventually losing all meaningful value as a party buff when it looks to have been intended as such.
There's more than enough room on the compost heap for Snap Freeze and other grossly underperforming feats as well. Implying that we shouldn't be discussing one bad feat because others are just as bad or arguably worse doesn't make sense to me. I wasn't aware that offering this feedback was an either/or proposition.
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
That's a somewhat misleading way of assessing its value.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
So yes, it's pretty bad.
I don't see why you take issue with that feat when there are MUCH worse ones (snap freeze anybody?). Not every feat will be best, but this still isn't bad. Before crit was turned into a linear stat it was extremely useful. While in the current situation an endgame player wouldn't have use for it (they don't use almost 3/5th of the feats afterall), but it still is okay.
Just to clarify, Energy recovery (or Snap freeze) is not just a "bad feat". They are so marginal that we shouldn't even count them as feats. But these are clear why they are wrong and can be changed with consent upon the playerbase. And they can be changed to anything else and it will be welcome.
Now, there are worse feats in my eyes, Uncertain allegiance and Reaper's touch. They are not horrible on the surface and I can tell, there are niche cases where I pick them. Like you still better off taking Reaper than Arcane burst or Energy recovery if you want to progress are Renegade so you do it, you see that in top builds.
The deeper problem is that they are essentially just as bad, but you need a vast and in-depth knowledge to as scientifically state their uselessness as possible, with a ton of aggregated data of actual runs and in theory. And there will be a ton of player defending against the clear data.
Like on the surface Reaper's touch a 10% buff with no requirement. But actually what it does it wastes 5 precious feat points and does nothing in return. Btw 3 out of 4 Rene starting feat is like that.
Now, Uncertain Allegiance is hard to hate. I like it, I like it's design, the clear, simple, understandable wording and just feels good and unique, even uplifting, because critting is harder as well, so you feel good when you procced it. And as you said, it had good use before mod6 and even now, it helps new players, makes lower contents going better.
But after a point that nice helpful buff feat becomes the biggest pile of garbage ever smelled from an arcanist and as the complex mechanics comes to play, it's simplistic, starter-friendly text becomes just a big deception from the point. The equivalent of 2000 power is marginalised and for everyone else it goes right to 0.
And that's a way bigger problem, because people have been baited into putting points there and they still think they help, they are buffing the team TO help, but in realism, they are holding back everyone because they do useless things instead of additional damage.
And just a note pre-mod6 things should not hold as a reason for not changing it for mod16.
2
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
There's a very short answer to why we don't do something like that. We can't. With the way animations and FX are hooked up in the engine, we don't currently have a way to tell parts of it to play faster on the fly.
GWF actually has a duplicate of every single power they have, which is sped up, so that feature can work for them. That isn't too feasible to do with every class in the game.
Being able to modify animation/fx speeds through a power is something we have recently begun looking into, but it will be a while before we have that working smoothly enough that we could even consider such a power (and we could always run into significant enough issues to drop the new tech).
Thanks for giving dev side feedback on that power idea.
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
That's disappointing.
Well, at least we got a dev response \o/
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
2 rank 14 is not garbage feat it for you and your party.
That's a somewhat misleading way of assessing its value.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
So yes, it's pretty bad.
I don't see why you take issue with that feat when there are MUCH worse ones (snap freeze anybody?). Not every feat will be best, but this still isn't bad. Before crit was turned into a linear stat it was extremely useful. While in the current situation an endgame player wouldn't have use for it (they don't use almost 3/5th of the feats afterall), but it still is okay.
I take issue with the feat because it is bad for the reasons outlined previously. It's extremely unfortunate that it loses value the better you and your party are equipped, eventually losing all meaningful value as a party buff when it looks to have been intended as such.
There's more than enough room on the compost heap for Snap Freeze and other grossly underperforming feats as well. Implying that we shouldn't be discussing one bad feat because others are just as bad or arguably worse doesn't make sense to me. I wasn't aware that offering this feedback was an either/or proposition.
I wasn't referring to the situation being either/or. This feedback was never asked for in the first place and is just general discussion. I just couldn't understand why those particular feats were chosen. Uncertain Allegiance could even turn out to be pretty useful again for K-Team challenges.
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
I expected this.
Part of me is happy that the CW has had some pretty significant changes that allow us some additional flexibility in how we build our character.
The other part is sad to see that there has been no changes to make Thaum build viable as a DPS in end game content and that Oppressor has been regulated to PVP making Renegade the only real viable PVE paragon feat path come mod 15.
Honestly some minor feat swapping would really help each of the three paths but if you cannot make any changes than so be it. The CW will be basically where it was in mod 13. Not the best DPS and right near the bottom if not the bottom for PVE content as a DPS.
As for buffing once again the CW will be mainly used for CoDG as the CW buff side is weaker than even a slight weakend DC or the current Templock builds.
Because the CW is one of the weaker buffers and weaker DPS, overall though I think the changes are a let down until the CW can be a decent and highly sought after buffer and can play with the other DPS in all content without the need to run a buff or a hybrid build.
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
I expected this.
Part of me is happy that the CW has had some pretty significant changes that allow us some additional flexibility in how we build our character.
The other part is sad to see that there has been no changes to make Thaum build viable as a DPS in end game content and that Oppressor has been regulated to PVP making Renegade the only real viable PVE paragon feat path come mod 15.
Honestly some minor feat swapping would really help each of the three paths but if you cannot make any changes than so be it. The CW will be basically where it was in mod 13. Not the best DPS and right near the bottom if not the bottom for PVE content as a DPS.
As for buffing once again the CW will be mainly used for CoDG as the CW buff side is weaker than even a slight weakend DC or the current Templock builds.
Because the CW is one of the weaker buffers and weaker DPS, overall though I think the changes are a let down until the CW can be a decent and highly sought after buffer and can play with the other DPS in all content without the need to run a buff or a hybrid build.
Except that CWs now... hit hard? And with the change to the capstone, they'll be quite a bit better buffers
I like the additional features of the renegade capstone, but I don't like the uptime. I think if they increased Controlled Momentum in the Oppressor feat path to 20%, that would go a long way to making a good reliable buff/debuff build for cw's.
Chaos Magic is too unreliable with poor uptime of buffs, at best 1/3 rd uptime, but that is absolute best for any one buff, where every other support can keep their buffs up at or near 100% of the time if they tune their recovery.
For Renegade to be a decent support with the sense of randomness, I think Uncontrolled Obliteration could be changed to buff allies in X' radius by 2.5%-25% (including the cw) or something like that.
So Renegade CW would have the potential to buff party damage by 2.5% to 45% w/ Chaotic Fury + Uncontrolled Obliteration. While Oppressor would have a reliable 20% damage buff plus other debuffs to damage taken and damage dealt which can be reliably proc'd. I would very much like this.
After that, Thaumaturge would need to be balanced to be the dps path that could compete with other classes' dps builds. I understand things will always be different and will never be equal all things considered, but you know, it would be nice where there was an element of skill required dps wise to compete with a cw and vice-versa.
Except that CWs now... hit hard? And with the change to the capstone, they'll be quite a bit better buffers
Hit hard... Yeah Disintegrate can give some crazy numbers when cast from tab on a -25% health target but the changes were pretty balanced so average dps hasn't really changed. And with this AoC nerf, it's even worse than on live imo.
And better buffers... On live, CWs can stack 2 of the 3 Chaotic buffs at the same time, so better chances to proc a 30% buff. On preview, you have a 40-50% uptime (due to the chance and cooldown) on a 20% buff. You can count the recovery boost as a little buff too. Controlled Momentum won't be able to stack at all on mod 15.
Don't know what devs wanted to do with CW but it doesn't seem really positive to me. I hope i missed something.
It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
I expected this.
Part of me is happy that the CW has had some pretty significant changes that allow us some additional flexibility in how we build our character.
The other part is sad to see that there has been no changes to make Thaum build viable as a DPS in end game content and that Oppressor has been regulated to PVP making Renegade the only real viable PVE paragon feat path come mod 15.
Honestly some minor feat swapping would really help each of the three paths but if you cannot make any changes than so be it. The CW will be basically where it was in mod 13. Not the best DPS and right near the bottom if not the bottom for PVE content as a DPS.
As for buffing once again the CW will be mainly used for CoDG as the CW buff side is weaker than even a slight weakend DC or the current Templock builds.
Because the CW is one of the weaker buffers and weaker DPS, overall though I think the changes are a let down until the CW can be a decent and highly sought after buffer and can play with the other DPS in all content without the need to run a buff or a hybrid build.
Except that CWs now... hit hard? And with the change to the capstone, they'll be quite a bit better buffers
Even if in Mod 15 CWs hit harder than they do in the current mod, that will not catapult them to the upper echelon of DPSers.
And only the Renegade capstone has "improved" in terms of buffing. Oppressor has been cut down (thus also losing a significant chunk of DPS), and Thaumaturge has not changed and remains the worst. So, in fact, the status quo seems unchanged: still a "bit better buffers" as you say, but still 2nd or 3rd rate buffers compared to others.
Even if in Mod 15 CWs hit harder than they do in the current mod, that will not catapult them to the upper echelon of DPSers.
If you try to play CW like you would in Mod 14, you will be disappointed. If you change up your strategy and use some of the reworked abilities, you will be surprised at the damage that is possible.
I can't see CW being as strong as Mod 15 GF in a perfect play party (6 Griffons, anyone?).
However, I can see CW being slightly under GWF, or, if the CW is extremely good, as good as GWF.
Even if in Mod 15 CWs hit harder than they do in the current mod, that will not catapult them to the upper echelon of DPSers.
If you try to play CW like you would in Mod 14, you will be disappointed. If you change up your strategy and use some of the reworked abilities, you will be surprised at the damage that is possible.
I can't see CW being as strong as Mod 15 GF in a perfect play party (6 Griffons, anyone?).
However, I can see CW being slightly under GWF, or, if the CW is extremely good, as good as GWF.
My point exactly. I've seen some ludicrous CWs around, and I know how good 2 of them are (Freedom and Sharpie). I'll trust them on this one. Sure they're not GFs (or M14 TRs for that matter) but they don't need to be to hit hard.
I mean, I've seen a few of the higher tier 8 digit disintegrates, on the 0.0001s CD it has and I HAMSTER love it. The M15 CW is nothing like it was in M14. This requires some ridiculous skill, and I only know 3-5 CWs that could get to the ceiling.
Fanning the Flame: Action points received using this spell are not affected by the Action point gain statistics. - it's fatal because creating Action Points is now very important for CW and at the same time this is primary spell of the entire paragon path Master of Flame.
Fanning the Flame: Action points received using this spell are not affected by the Action point gain statistics. - it's fatal because creating Action Points is now very important for CW and at the same time this is primary spell of the entire paragon path Master of Flame.
Comments
Any updates to Assailing Force or Ice Knife casting time?
> It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
Thanks for your response,
That’s a shame, Assailing Force could have really done with a slight change/rework before M15. Because of its design (doesn’t scale with debuffs) it makes it really weak for endgame content. The way players would like it to work is already in game right now, in M14, the Shatter component of Shatter Strike which deals damage that scales with Debuffs. It could also do with a proc chance increase to make it more consistent.
Oh well I guess for M15, we’ll just have to run without a DPS capstone.
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> It is unlikely that there will be any other changes to the classes (outside of any critical bugs that come up) before M15 release. Any additional design/balance changes would happen in M16 at this point (again outside of any issues that come up that get addressed in a patch before M16)
I suggest you look into Assailing force and abyss of chaos. I understand that they are not intended to work with *debuff* but you guys never stated that they shouldn't scale with buffs. At the moment Assailing only works with chilling presence and power even though in combat log assailing is labelled as *arcane damage*, while abyss of chaos only works with power.
I noticed a lot of you guys talking about assailing being 8% and so on but I'll have to inform you guys that the method you've used to test is not a reliable method at all. All the method you guys use, I'm pretty sure it was solo without any outside dmg % buff and you guys didn't even take the time to notice what buffs actually affects these two feats *Assailing and abyss of chaos*. Neither of these two needs a buff as you guys call for but what they do need is the ability to scale with buffs properly. Heck even making it scale with debuff will push it's dmg even more
@noworries#8859 Regardless that no change will happen until and I guess no certain things are on the table for mod16, can we get at least a broad developer opinion about these things?
-The "flipping switch" effect of CW control that useless, but can't shine because it will be broken immediately.
-Garbage feats. I don't want to be rude, but Uncertain allegiance (+5% crit chance) is not a buff and Energy recovery is not a feat (When the stars aligned, you get a hug). The latter is so bad that I had to google how it's called. Does it even work properly? We'll never know. Okay, I'm maybe hatebiased, but still.
Not sure if anyone reported this since I did not read every page.
The only player who can really build around that feat is the CW who has it. An end-game party has no need for it at all, and for a low or mid-game party, 5% crit, while a nice bonus, is not rocking anyone's world.
In summary, we have a feat that sees its full value only in lower-geared parties and has somewhere between "unappreciable" and "absolute no" value in higher-geared ones.
So yes, it's pretty bad.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Now let's make a hypothetical situation where it's actually a 5% DPS buff instead of crit chance buff.
At 250k power - a pretty standard amount in the endgame groups - 5% DPS more is the equivalent of 14.5k power.
So no, 5% crit chance is not good.
There's more than enough room on the compost heap for Snap Freeze and other grossly underperforming feats as well. Implying that we shouldn't be discussing one bad feat because others are just as bad or arguably worse doesn't make sense to me. I wasn't aware that offering this feedback was an either/or proposition.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Now, there are worse feats in my eyes, Uncertain allegiance and Reaper's touch. They are not horrible on the surface and I can tell, there are niche cases where I pick them. Like you still better off taking Reaper than Arcane burst or Energy recovery if you want to progress are Renegade so you do it, you see that in top builds.
The deeper problem is that they are essentially just as bad, but you need a vast and in-depth knowledge to as scientifically state their uselessness as possible, with a ton of aggregated data of actual runs and in theory. And there will be a ton of player defending against the clear data.
Like on the surface Reaper's touch a 10% buff with no requirement. But actually what it does it wastes 5 precious feat points and does nothing in return. Btw 3 out of 4 Rene starting feat is like that.
Now, Uncertain Allegiance is hard to hate. I like it, I like it's design, the clear, simple, understandable wording and just feels good and unique, even uplifting, because critting is harder as well, so you feel good when you procced it. And as you said, it had good use before mod6 and even now, it helps new players, makes lower contents going better.
But after a point that nice helpful buff feat becomes the biggest pile of garbage ever smelled from an arcanist and as the complex mechanics comes to play, it's simplistic, starter-friendly text becomes just a big deception from the point. The equivalent of 2000 power is marginalised and for everyone else it goes right to 0.
And that's a way bigger problem, because people have been baited into putting points there and they still think they help, they are buffing the team TO help, but in realism, they are holding back everyone because they do useless things instead of additional damage.
And just a note pre-mod6 things should not hold as a reason for not changing it for mod16.
I expected this.
Part of me is happy that the CW has had some pretty significant changes that allow us some additional flexibility in how we build our character.
The other part is sad to see that there has been no changes to make Thaum build viable as a DPS in end game content and that Oppressor has been regulated to PVP making Renegade the only real viable PVE paragon feat path come mod 15.
Honestly some minor feat swapping would really help each of the three paths but if you cannot make any changes than so be it. The CW will be basically where it was in mod 13. Not the best DPS and right near the bottom if not the bottom for PVE content as a DPS.
As for buffing once again the CW will be mainly used for CoDG as the CW buff side is weaker than even a slight weakend DC or the current Templock builds.
Because the CW is one of the weaker buffers and weaker DPS, overall though I think the changes are a let down until the CW can be a decent and highly sought after buffer and can play with the other DPS in all content without the need to run a buff or a hybrid build.
Chaos Magic is too unreliable with poor uptime of buffs, at best 1/3 rd uptime, but that is absolute best for any one buff, where every other support can keep their buffs up at or near 100% of the time if they tune their recovery.
For Renegade to be a decent support with the sense of randomness, I think Uncontrolled Obliteration could be changed to buff allies in X' radius by 2.5%-25% (including the cw) or something like that.
So Renegade CW would have the potential to buff party damage by 2.5% to 45% w/ Chaotic Fury + Uncontrolled Obliteration. While Oppressor would have a reliable 20% damage buff plus other debuffs to damage taken and damage dealt which can be reliably proc'd. I would very much like this.
After that, Thaumaturge would need to be balanced to be the dps path that could compete with other classes' dps builds. I understand things will always be different and will never be equal all things considered, but you know, it would be nice where there was an element of skill required dps wise to compete with a cw and vice-versa.
And better buffers... On live, CWs can stack 2 of the 3 Chaotic buffs at the same time, so better chances to proc a 30% buff. On preview, you have a 40-50% uptime (due to the chance and cooldown) on a 20% buff. You can count the recovery boost as a little buff too.
Controlled Momentum won't be able to stack at all on mod 15.
Don't know what devs wanted to do with CW but it doesn't seem really positive to me.
I hope i missed something.
And only the Renegade capstone has "improved" in terms of buffing. Oppressor has been cut down (thus also losing a significant chunk of DPS), and Thaumaturge has not changed and remains the worst. So, in fact, the status quo seems unchanged: still a "bit better buffers" as you say, but still 2nd or 3rd rate buffers compared to others.
If you change up your strategy and use some of the reworked abilities, you will be surprised at the damage that is possible.
I can't see CW being as strong as Mod 15 GF in a perfect play party (6 Griffons, anyone?).
However, I can see CW being slightly under GWF, or, if the CW is extremely good, as good as GWF.
I mean, I've seen a few of the higher tier 8 digit disintegrates, on the 0.0001s CD it has and I HAMSTER love it.
The M15 CW is nothing like it was in M14. This requires some ridiculous skill, and I only know 3-5 CWs that could get to the ceiling.
nerfed multi-procing AoC
kill dps cw
the only class multi-proc nerfs don't affect, is gwf. soo jelly.
- it's fatal because creating Action Points is now very important for CW and at the same time this is primary spell of the entire paragon path Master of Flame.