> @gohaken#5114 said: > So I'd certainly like more support from the Devs to improve CW's support functionality and in particular our ability to do party/instance-wide Buffs. If Abyss of Chaos scaled, or added rider effects, or something, that alone could go a long way. Or if Alacrity was a party wide cooldown reduction upon proc, for all encounter powers, that would go a long way.
> @theraxin#5169 said: > Renegade basically lack buffs (only 2, I just don't count UC) and progressivity. In sum, they are not much and you can't really help on that.
Disintegrate is out of control. I did some testing on puppets where the puppet is most of the time lower than 25% of its HP. This does not show the regular dungeon behavior I know but Disintegrate will be a must have for single target builds.
Please don't think that Disintegrate is OP and you are going to nerf it. The damage output of a CW is pretty decent I think. If you nerf Disintegrate you have to buff something else otherwise we are as weak as before the balance changes.
I completely disagree! After mod5 This game became all about burning down bosses! No need for trash clearer now as in the old days! Even a dps-buffer OP, DC can handle mobs nowadys. Dungeons don't have 30 mobs running towards you they have only 3...
CWs need a powerful single target tool to keep up with GWF, HR, GF etc!
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
To actually be wizards we should have book and orb at wills. Reading from the book over 5 secs buffs you and allies stats by 2500 for ten seconds. The orb is the same except buffs defensive stats by 2500. Add that on top off renegade buffs.
Might make your goal here come to fruition. Renegade path buff but also highly sought after. As of now cws are not. Also make that feat that increases encounters or whatever by up to 50% party wide. If you did that cws can be a legit buff option or choose dps
You can also have the orb randomly summon pets (with adequate hp), lightning storm, meteors, acid/ flame cloud e.t.c
Disintegrate is out of control. I did some testing on puppets where the puppet is most of the time lower than 25% of its HP. This does not show the regular dungeon behavior I know but Disintegrate will be a must have for single target builds.
Please don't think that Disintegrate is OP and you are going to nerf it. The damage output of a CW is pretty decent I think. If you nerf Disintegrate you have to buff something else otherwise we are as weak as before the balance changes.
I completely disagree! After mod5 This game became all about burning down bosses! No need for trash clearer now as in the old days! Even a dps-buffer OP, DC can handle mobs nowadys. Dungeons don't have 30 mobs running towards you they have only 3...
CWs need a powerful single target tool to keep up with GWF, HR, GF etc!
How about we get "Power Word Kill" instead of Imprisonment? I mean it would be nice to instant kill any boss or any trash mob.
Another thought I had was Tenser Transformation. This would provide the CW 10% more damage, defense increases by 10% and 10% HP increase. The buff last 10 seconds with a cooldown of 20 seconds and each point into it reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds.
CWs need a powerful single target tool to keep up with GWF, HR, GF etc!
Add dailies and encounters to Power Surge? Chill Strike and/or Ice Knife instead of Icy Rays in the other feat. CW tools just need a little bit sharpening.
How about we get "Power Word Kill" instead of Imprisonment? I mean it would be nice to instant kill any boss or any trash mob.
Also kills your party members since you won't need them anymore?
Just a sidenote that Power word: Kill to those teammates who murders the Hulk on ToDG or destroying the cubes on CoDG would be great. suddenly realising correlation between the names and the stuff happening in them.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Power Word Kill would work the way Disintegrate does now: It kills creatures of low HP.
Not really the best option.
Also, since Imprisonment is, for some reason, an encounter power, you probably want to aim for spells of levels 6 or lower (like Disintegrate). That's why I recommended Chain Lightning.
Fireball would be nice, especially since those Evocation Red Wizards have had it all this time, making us blaster CWs look like chumps!
I know we already have the spell Steal Time, but what about adding more control to our arsenal and instead of Imprisonment have a 9th level spell Time Stop.
It would work by stopping everyone else in their tracks while the wizard is able to move freely for 3 seconds (+0.5 seconds per rank). Hehehe
Overall I have to say that I am not happy about how SpellStorm is treated nor how all other powers are going totally in favor to the Master of Flame.
A simple way to fix this would be to make Storm Pillar a DEBUFF at-will, much akin to Smolder.
A rework of Storm Pillar seems like a plausible idea as playing as either MoF or SpellStorm should just be a preference.
CC targets get paralyzed for 3-4-5 sec in addition to DoT damage. CC immune targets get Lightning Blindness and take increased damage from all sources.
Since meta will still demand a DEBUFF Wizard, a simple solution is to make a debuff SpellStorm powers.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Overall I have to say that I am not happy about how SpellStorm is treated nor how all other powers are going totally in favor to the Master of Flame.
A simple way to fix this would be to make Storm Pillar a DEBUFF at-will, much akin to Smolder.
A rework of Storm Pillar seems like a plausible idea as playing as either MoF or SpellStorm should just be a preference.
CC targets get paralyzed for 3-4-5 sec in addition to DoT damage. CC immune targets get Lightning Blindness and take increased damage from all sources.
Since meta will still demand a DEBUFF Wizard, a simple solution is to make a debuff SpellStorm powers.
Nononono... SS or Mof should be a preference of style, not just the style of a meaningless icon over your character. We already at the bottom in diversity, this would make things just worse.
The meta demands a high tier DPS or a debuff Wizard. With the constant nerfs, SS stopped to be the high tier DPS, thus making Mof the only viable style, which slowly eroding away as well.
Mof should have the team utility aspect and SS should try to top GWF's in the DPS chart or it's place in the optimal team composition.
Edit: Or we could magically try to get back into the 2 or more DPS situation.
I mean the Paragon-exclusive feats aren't really great and didn't get adjusted unless I'm missing something. Chilling Control not good, Destructive Wizardry taking a full charge, Unrestrained Chaos I don't even what the purpose of this is. The MoF equivalents aren't the greatest either but at least have situational use.
I know we already have the spell Steal Time, but what about adding more control to our arsenal and instead of Imprisonment have a 9th level spell Time Stop.
It would work by stopping everyone else in their tracks while the wizard is able to move freely for 3 seconds (+0.5 seconds per rank). Hehehe
Or for easier programming increase CW damage by 100% during that window.
Overall I have to say that I am not happy about how SpellStorm is treated nor how all other powers are going totally in favor to the Master of Flame.
A simple way to fix this would be to make Storm Pillar a DEBUFF at-will, much akin to Smolder.
A rework of Storm Pillar seems like a plausible idea as playing as either MoF or SpellStorm should just be a preference.
CC targets get paralyzed for 3-4-5 sec in addition to DoT damage. CC immune targets get Lightning Blindness and take increased damage from all sources.
Since meta will still demand a DEBUFF Wizard, a simple solution is to make a debuff SpellStorm powers.
Here are some ideas on feat swaps that may help some of the builds, hopefully.
Control Momentum should be moved to where Uncontrolled Obliteration is for Renegade - this would provide the Renegade/Buff builds more consistent damage increase buff. I would than lower the damage buff from Chaotic Fury by 5% for this change.
Uncontrolled Obliteration should be moved to where Transcended Master is, this would help increase the damage potential of Thaumaturge feat path.
Transcended Master should be moved to where Control Momentum is since the Oppressor build would benefit from having more damage from Icy Ray.
These changes would align the three Paragon feat path better than what is currently in test. Thaum would get the damage bonus it needs, Renegade would get the buff bonus it needs, and Oppressor would gain bonus damage from a Control Encounter power that it uses.
I recommend doing this prior to mod 15 being released.
Overall I have to say that I am not happy about how SpellStorm is treated nor how all other powers are going totally in favor to the Master of Flame.
A simple way to fix this would be to make Storm Pillar a DEBUFF at-will, much akin to Smolder.
A rework of Storm Pillar seems like a plausible idea as playing as either MoF or SpellStorm should just be a preference.
CC targets get paralyzed for 3-4-5 sec in addition to DoT damage. CC immune targets get Lightning Blindness and take increased damage from all sources.
Since meta will still demand a DEBUFF Wizard, a simple solution is to make a debuff SpellStorm powers.
Nononono... SS or Mof should be a preference of style, not just the style of a meaningless icon over your character. We already at the bottom in diversity, this would make things just worse.
The meta demands a high tier DPS or a debuff Wizard. With the constant nerfs, SS stopped to be the high tier DPS, thus making Mof the only viable style, which slowly eroding away as well.
Mof should have the team utility aspect and SS should try to top GWF's in the DPS chart or it's place in the optimal team composition.
Edit: Or we could magically try to get back into the 2 or more DPS situation.
Sorry, but I disagree with you on all points and here's why:
And when power share as well as GWF's/TRs doing crazy DPS goes away, then what? GWF's won't be doing crazy damage all the time. So you shouldn't be using them as orientation. You should think only from CW's perspective without thinking about power-sharing nor party buffs nor about high-tier dungeon runs. You should think from the point of viable playstyle.
Why should only MoF be viable for high tier runs? I prefer to play as a SpellStorm. Why not allow SpellStorm to also debuff? The point of making MoF stronger back in MoD 6-7 was to make both CW options viable, but for Dungeons the only option being called is MoF solely and SOLELY for the sake of debuffs.
MoF shouldn't be the one that's only viable and people shouldn't promote no SpellStorm as a thing. SpellStorm isn't dead and should be more prominent.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
You should think only from CW's perspective without thinking about power-sharing nor party buffs nor about high-tier dungeon runs. You should think from the point of viable playstyle.
Except that MoF at the moment is a sinking ship, so from the point of viable playstyle, you actually want SS to drift away from the evergreen HDPS potential, which is always good, to jump into the Mof train, because you think debuff will fix everything. It's not and it's not even working now for the MoF.
Why should only MoF be viable for high tier runs? I prefer to play as a SpellStorm. Why not allow SpellStorm to also debuff? The point of making MoF stronger back in MoD 6-7 was to make both CW options viable, but for Dungeons the only option being called is MoF solely and SOLELY for the sake of debuffs.
MoF shouldn't be the one that's only viable and people shouldn't promote no SpellStorm as a thing. SpellStorm isn't dead and should be more prominent.
This is the most messy part, because you like Spellstorm, but it should be less Spellstorm and more MoF, Spellstorm is not dead, but why Mof is only viable paragon.
but for Dungeons the only option being called is MoF solely and SOLELY for the sake of debuffs.
And this is just plain wrong. The best MoF is at the moment the Oppressor, which is a hybrid what can race for Paingiver as a DPS, buffs a little and debuffs where it's optimal. A real debuffer Renegade Mof is just drags the team down, but most people are ignorant and only know MoF as a debuffer, so the call for Renegade even if they have CA up almost always. And again, CW have got out of favor in endgame content, in general, just Spellstorm died out faster. And with the Oppressor changes, MoF will soon to follow.
And one more note, no one (or at least I never and never seen anyone), never said that Spellstorm shouldn't be viable. But Spellstorm should be viable AS Spellstorm, not randomly dropping in MoF stuff and see if it helps.
So, please, reconsider this whole thing, because debuff actually getting more and more common, eroding it's use and this is probably the only big change period that Spellstorm can ever get. Try to make it better in a Spellstorm way until it's good for endgame.
> @theraxin#5169 said: > A real debuffer Renegade Mof is just drags the team down, but most people are ignorant and only know MoF as a debuffer, so the call for Renegade even if they have CA up almost always. And again, CW have got out of favor in endgame content, in general, just Spellstorm died out faster. And with the Oppressor changes, MoF will soon to follow.
This is why Renegade needs more buffs than debuffs to compete with the highly more sought after support classes do, temp, gf, even buff hr.
2
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2018
When you make secret changes like conduit of ice and icy terrain to proc once aura of courage and not for each tic then you have to do it for every class to have similar aura of courage proc. Great weapon fighter coming into my mind can make aura of courage to be big part of his damage because hit very fast with his att wills. You are the devs you know how to adjust great weapon fighter to have similar procs aura of courage like the other classes.
Arcane Presence : Arcane Mastery now increase the damage of Cold, Fire, and Lightning attacks by 1% per stack Suggestion: Make it increase the damage of Arcane attacks as well or change it to 1.5% per stack. Would make it easier to replace Chill Presence for Renegade builds because its harder for Renegade builds to stack chill.
Suggestion: Also make "Frost Wave" increase damage of cold powers by 100%. So it can actually be somewhat useful Right now I only see Frost Wave being some what useful in pvp(gross).
Suggestion: Arcane Power Field add 2 more seconds to its duration. So 10 seconds instead of 8. And make the damage every 1 second instead of 2.
With the new changes it seems that Spellstorm paragon will be dead/useless next mod due to better encounter/class feats on Master of Flame. Here are my suggestions to fix that.. 1st Suggestion: Change "Storm Spell" internal cooldown to 0.25 so basically by half 2nd Suggestion: Make "Sudden Storm" double the damage of the first enemy hit. 3rd Suggestion: "Maelstrom of Chaos" give a 5% damage self buff per rank that last 8 seconds after fully casted(Canceling won't give you the buff). So 20% damage self buff at rank 4 that lasts 8 seconds. 4rth Suggestion: "Icy Rays" Reduce cooldown by half.
The changes also made Oppressor tree build not worth using again. Since 10% damage buff no longer stacks Renegade gonna be the only option for buff build and shatter strike does little to no damage now. So its not even good for dps or buff builds. No point on going this route now. It was working fine as it was.. don't know what you guys were thinking.
More Suggestions: "Assailant" Make it work with debuffs. "Abyss of Chaos" Make it work with debuffs. "Ice Knife" lower the casting time, it takes way to long to cast right now. "Snap Freeze" Make it that it only works with only targets who are effect by chill. So pretty much vice versa. "Spell Twisting" and "Snap Freeze" swapped positions.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Arcane Presence : Arcane Mastery now increase the damage of Cold, Fire, and Lightning attacks by 1% per stack Suggestion: Make it increase the damage of Arcane attacks as well or change it to 1.5% per stack. Would make it easier to replace Chill Presence for Renegade builds because its harder for Renegade builds to stack chill.
Suggestion: Also make "Frost Wave" increase damage of cold powers by 100%. So it can actually be somewhat useful Right now I only see Frost Wave being some what useful in pvp(gross).
Suggestion: Arcane Power Field add 2 more seconds to its duration. So 10 seconds instead of 8. And make the damage every 1 second instead of 2.
With the new changes it seems that Spellstorm paragon will be dead/useless next mod due to better encounter/class feats on Master of Flame. Here are my suggestions to fix that.. 1st Suggestion: Change "Storm Spell" internal cooldown to 0.25 so basically by half 2nd Suggestion: Make "Sudden Storm" double the damage of the first enemy hit. 3rd Suggestion: "Maelstrom of Chaos" give a 5% damage self buff per rank that last 8 seconds after fully casted(Canceling won't give you the buff). So 20% damage self buff at rank 4 that lasts 8 seconds. 4rth Suggestion: "Icy Rays" Reduce cooldown by half.
The changes also made Oppressor tree build not worth using again. Since 10% damage buff no longer stacks Renegade gonna be the only option for buff build and shatter strike does little to no damage now. So its not even good for dps or buff builds. No point on going this route now. It was working fine as it was.. don't know what you guys were thinking.
More Suggestions: "Assailant" Make it work with debuffs. "Abyss of Chaos" Make it work with debuffs. "Ice Knife" lower the casting time, it takes way to long to cast right now. "Snap Freeze" Make it that it only works with only targets who are effect by chill. So pretty much vice versa. "Spell Twisting" and "Snap Freeze" swapped positions.
Arcane power field is fine at 8 seconds 8 seconds takes to cast again daily ( well ap gain builds). spell twisting will kill recovery stat if they make this change.
@mamalion1234 Spell twisting would not kill the recovery stat at all, it would enhance it to be exact. Only reason I suggested this is because they removing pretty much every multi proc power(aoc, weapon enchantment,spellstorm nerf/fix) for cw and we need faster casting to make up for that in damage on all 3 of our feat trees. But yea after giving it more thought about Arcane power field 8 does seem fine. I was just thinking 10 seconds would be better when your hopping from mob wave to wave.
> @mamalion1234 said: > When you make secret changes like conduit of ice and icy terrain to proc once aura of courage and not for each tic then you have to do it for every class to have similar aura of courage proc. > Great weapon fighter coming into my mind can make aura of courage to be big part of his damage because hit very fast with his att wills. > You are the devs you know how to adjust great weapon fighter to have similar procs aura of courage like the other classes.
Just when you thought our dps has been nerfed enough...
RANT ON There seems to be a major misconception that other classes feature powers somehow translate into CW's dps.
Well... I can't agree with that. Wonder.
Technically speaking it can't be a NERF to CW as it doesn't meddle with any CW oriented skill. Period. You can't just say it's a nerf to CW, it makes no sense.
It does affect CW's damage, but that's an internal problem with the way class is lacking powers, not because of something else. Multiproc is a thing of the past, this is clear as a day!
What it can be perceived would be providing the actual information of just how poorly optimized CW actually is. And this is where all CW players point of interest should be applied to, made with great constructivism, without trying to be cynical about it. If you're cynical and poignant, then your voice won't be really heard no matter how correct you may be or appear to the people.
The class was broken from toe to skull on each and every occasion and as usual it is only thanks to the ACTing that the class was able to remain somewhat in the game thus far as a viable option. But that, too, creates another problem as there was a misconstruct which somehow was going to translate that CW is actually "in amazing spot"... which only happens if CWs utilize other people's powers to the maximum and run in specific case scenarios. That's NOT what a class should be made from ground-up! The class shouldn't leech upon other people's power and (de)buffs. And this "CW can do amazing damage" by utilizing two most unintuitive spells ever (Disintegrate, Ice Knife) is something that CWs themselves were talking about the most and have been trying to remain competitive by various tricks and plays upon other classes powers. DON'T act strong when you lack as a class on fundamental aspects. If one small ninjanerf/ninjafix is going to ruin your damaging output, then that's a huge issue and can only mean that the class is on basically life-support.
I understand when people opt to choose the best and most logical DPSing path that allows even 1-2% more damage in some cases so they choose to increase AoC proc/Damage by increasing HP/using Feytouched/using specific (de)buffs to maximize the potential ratio but I really do not understand why it is mandatory to have it as a thing. DON'T promote such things as a CLASS POWER that's mandatory and in any if all guides, always explain that such a thing is not mandatory, can change, will change and should be only used with caution. This is extremely important as we all know that the nature of NWO was always doing stuff like this and people should always expect their damaging properties to drastically change due to the smallest of changes to certain powers.
I'd rather be a weaker class and call for buffs where buffs are needed, than to rely on Aura of Courage even partially in order to present that as my skill/build/whatever. Aura of Courage is not important to me. I don't like it. I don't want it. I don't think it's a skillfull choice for any Wizard. It's also demoralizing and lowers CW's true potential to achieve great gameplay through sheer skill. I want skill back into CW, I do not want "press A to win scenarios" that CW's currently have with Disintegrate a.k.a Finger of Death. It just feels wrong to me, aesthetically. What also feels wrong to me is that some class can boost my Power to good heavens, and in return this same power boost is what I need in order to remain competitive with new content which arises.
I said it before, gonna say it again, I do not like content being made with power-sharing that's so effective that it outshines everything to the point where only speed of attack is important, in mind no want to be dependant upon other people's buffs and heals in order to survive by standing on one solitary spot, next to nine other people, so that we can feel victorious after collecting from 1/2 chests with bad RNG, without me even playing the build I want to play as it doesn't bring anything important to the party. RANT OFF
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Although I agree with you that CW needs proper buffs as that would be the best case scenario for US, the problem is also that classes call for buffs in order to be competitive. And that creates more buffs, more power shares, more debuffs, more this and that, and soon enough you will have content itself going crazy bad. Instead of simply call for more and more, perhaps other outshining aspects need to be toned down, like GWF who is desperately singing Opera De Le Nerf a la SureStrikĕ.
Weapon Damage itself needs to be properly balanced, too. The mere 20 points in Weapon Damage can create a huge disparity not only among the weapon damage itself, weapon enchantments, but also encounter powers.
More damage + Melee = Less attack speed. Less damage + Ranged = More attack speed. Higher damage casting = Slower Casting, bigger radius. Smaller damage casting = Faster Casting, smaller radius.
That's the holy grail of fundamental class balance. Buto ne class goes crazy and doesn't respect those rules, and that's GWF.
Normally I wouldn't have problem with it, as I didn't have problem with it for a long time, figuring that as it is a NORMAL thing to see such an obvious mistake in power dealings and given that multiproc was a thing of the past, now I see it's not really changing and I can't help but to wonder - why? Aside with CW's being broken and constantly suffering non-intentional nerfs to multiproc, why can't TRs skills of AT-will also do the same like GWF skills? If anything, TR should attack way faster due to weapon damage being halved in two and procing only once on initial hit. And the only and solitary logical explanation is that devs forgot or skipped over this extremely important fact of GWF's being able to SureStrike their way into victory in any case scenario and outshine, by far, all other classes in terms of raw use of Weapon Enchantments themselves. And that is a big problem, right? One class can use so many weapon enchants without any effort, whilst others can't and are, well, lagging behind in everything. When I spoke about that recently in GWF thread I got pitches and forks because some of them can't understand why their class is overperforming which creates unfairness simply because of an oversight, possibly by developers. And as time goes by I do wonder - wtf? Just simple, daily and decent ---> WTF. Developers here simply made a terrible oversight, but I want it to turn into something POSITIVE because it opens the door to actually fixing the internal problems of weaker classes.
From my perspective
1. Sure Strike only activates Weapon Enchantment power on first strike only, or hits way, way slower than it hits now. At least 5 sec between each hit, 3 during Berserker and receive feat changes to utilize different weapon enchantments according to the desired playstyle. Want Radiant? Play tanky, get a +10% buff against undeads for 4-5-6 sec after 3 succes hits. Want lightning? Play aggressive and chain as many enemies at once to receive a +5% buff against all types for 8-9-10 sec (except Lycanthropes). Want fire? Use AoE at-wills and skills to increase each burning case scenario. After three hits each next grants 1% more damage up to 15% more damage party wide for 1-2-3 sec. ITC 2 sec between hits. DoTs can't hit more than 15 enemies, but scale with other (de)buffs. There are SO MANY options to make GWF one of the best and fun to play classes in game that would require SKILL to play properly. Want tankier? Get bloody enchant. Doesn't work on Skellies! After each 3 hits get 2.5% increased life-steal and 1% life-steal severity. Each 1000 points in Defense increase this by additional 1.5% for LS and 0.5% for LSS. Additionally, you make living creatures bleed, decreasing their movement by 25%. Control immune targets instead get 5% increased damage for 3-4-5 sec. It would be glorious! 2. CW gets a huge buff (100% Crit Severity as Sharpedge proposed instead of EotS granting 100% Critical Strike).
And funny thing is that simple animation fix can really improve this problem, without even changing the weapon damage for GWFs. And if that's not the case, then why can't Sure Strike also only hit on first strike instead of each subsequent hit? All of it makes no sense. If the class had weaker damage per weapon, like TR or HR, then it would make sense for their weapons to hit maybe twice or proc twice. Heck, even apply two different weapon enchantments to each slot and use Elemental stuff as a great way to boost their damaging properties. Whenever I play Dual Wielding classes in any game I almost always combine two different aspects to increase maximum potential. The only exception being Dragon's Dogma where I really needed that Holy dual weilding daggers for my Assassin class whenever I was playing against the Undead. Now that is a good way to balance out the weapon damage. More damage PER type of enemy. That alone creates diversity, would actually make each and every class to carry around several weapon enchantments and different damaging properties. But that might never happen here any further than having runeslots for armor and I'm not even sure those work as WAI tbh.
And that's how the first at-wills were made back in the days. They had that figured out nicely and perhaps there were only needing some animation fixes, like checking that attack speed animation is perhaps 0.5, 0.6 sec faster or slower. And that alone creates a huge difference in actual combat and the way that the game functions.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
@mamalion1234 Spell twisting would not kill the recovery stat at all, it would enhance it to be exact. Only reason I suggested this is because they removing pretty much every multi proc power(aoc, weapon enchantment,spellstorm nerf/fix) for cw and we need faster casting to make up for that in damage on all 3 of our feat trees. But yea after giving it more thought about Arcane power field 8 does seem fine. I was just thinking 10 seconds would be better when your hopping from mob wave to wave.
Well the problem is they made a change that affect everyone but not the great weapon fighter the solution is not buff cw but bring gwf where the other classes are with aura of courage..
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I think if implemented correctly, multiprocs could be a fun and interesting part of gameplay. I am more sad to see them go then have them stay and be implemented in an interesting manner. Having classes do damage in different ways instead of all do damage the same way (barring gwf) makes for more interesting gameplay then all classes doing the same thing, just with different colours. Here is an example of multiproccing implemented in a fun and engaging way, Mystic Knight from Dragon's Dogma:
In this video the gameplay looks deceptively easy, but for anyone who has actually played this class in question they will know it is very challenging. If such gameplay existed in NW, I would drop everything else and play this class in a heartbeat, just from the pure fun aspect.
Comments
> So I'd certainly like more support from the Devs to improve CW's support functionality and in particular our ability to do party/instance-wide Buffs. If Abyss of Chaos scaled, or added rider effects, or something, that alone could go a long way. Or if Alacrity was a party wide cooldown reduction upon proc, for all encounter powers, that would go a long way.
This right here.
> Renegade basically lack buffs (only 2, I just don't count UC) and progressivity. In sum, they are not much and you can't really help on that.
This is why we're not wanted as support..
After mod5 This game became all about burning down bosses!
No need for trash clearer now as in the old days!
Even a dps-buffer OP, DC can handle mobs nowadys.
Dungeons don't have 30 mobs running towards you they have only 3...
CWs need a powerful single target tool to keep up with GWF, HR, GF etc!
Might make your goal here come to fruition. Renegade path buff but also highly sought after. As of now cws are not. Also make that feat that increases encounters or whatever by up to 50% party wide. If you did that cws can be a legit buff option or choose dps
You can also have the orb randomly summon pets (with adequate hp), lightning storm, meteors, acid/ flame cloud e.t.c
Another thought I had was Tenser Transformation. This would provide the CW 10% more damage, defense increases by 10% and 10% HP increase. The buff last 10 seconds with a cooldown of 20 seconds and each point into it reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds.
Not really the best option.
Also, since Imprisonment is, for some reason, an encounter power, you probably want to aim for spells of levels 6 or lower (like Disintegrate). That's why I recommended Chain Lightning.
Fireball would be nice, especially since those Evocation Red Wizards have had it all this time, making us blaster CWs look like chumps!
It would work by stopping everyone else in their tracks while the wizard is able to move freely for 3 seconds (+0.5 seconds per rank). Hehehe
A simple way to fix this would be to make Storm Pillar a DEBUFF at-will, much akin to Smolder.
A rework of Storm Pillar seems like a plausible idea as playing as either MoF or SpellStorm should just be a preference.
CC targets get paralyzed for 3-4-5 sec in addition to DoT damage.
CC immune targets get Lightning Blindness and take increased damage from all sources.
Since meta will still demand a DEBUFF Wizard, a simple solution is to make a debuff SpellStorm powers.
The meta demands a high tier DPS or a debuff Wizard. With the constant nerfs, SS stopped to be the high tier DPS, thus making Mof the only viable style, which slowly eroding away as well.
Mof should have the team utility aspect and SS should try to top GWF's in the DPS chart or it's place in the optimal team composition.
Edit: Or we could magically try to get back into the 2 or more DPS situation.
Control Momentum should be moved to where Uncontrolled Obliteration is for Renegade - this would provide the Renegade/Buff builds more consistent damage increase buff. I would than lower the damage buff from Chaotic Fury by 5% for this change.
Uncontrolled Obliteration should be moved to where Transcended Master is, this would help increase the damage potential of Thaumaturge feat path.
Transcended Master should be moved to where Control Momentum is since the Oppressor build would benefit from having more damage from Icy Ray.
These changes would align the three Paragon feat path better than what is currently in test. Thaum would get the damage bonus it needs, Renegade would get the buff bonus it needs, and Oppressor would gain bonus damage from a Control Encounter power that it uses.
I recommend doing this prior to mod 15 being released.
And when power share as well as GWF's/TRs doing crazy DPS goes away, then what? GWF's won't be doing crazy damage all the time. So you shouldn't be using them as orientation. You should think only from CW's perspective without thinking about power-sharing nor party buffs nor about high-tier dungeon runs. You should think from the point of viable playstyle.
Why should only MoF be viable for high tier runs? I prefer to play as a SpellStorm. Why not allow SpellStorm to also debuff? The point of making MoF stronger back in MoD 6-7 was to make both CW options viable, but for Dungeons the only option being called is MoF solely and SOLELY for the sake of debuffs.
MoF shouldn't be the one that's only viable and people shouldn't promote no SpellStorm as a thing. SpellStorm isn't dead and should be more prominent.
but for Dungeons the only option being called is MoF solely and SOLELY for the sake of debuffs.
And this is just plain wrong. The best MoF is at the moment the Oppressor, which is a hybrid what can race for Paingiver as a DPS, buffs a little and debuffs where it's optimal. A real debuffer Renegade Mof is just drags the team down, but most people are ignorant and only know MoF as a debuffer, so the call for Renegade even if they have CA up almost always. And again, CW have got out of favor in endgame content, in general, just Spellstorm died out faster. And with the Oppressor changes, MoF will soon to follow.
And one more note, no one (or at least I never and never seen anyone), never said that Spellstorm shouldn't be viable. But Spellstorm should be viable AS Spellstorm, not randomly dropping in MoF stuff and see if it helps.
So, please, reconsider this whole thing, because debuff actually getting more and more common, eroding it's use and this is probably the only big change period that Spellstorm can ever get. Try to make it better in a Spellstorm way until it's good for endgame.
> A real debuffer Renegade Mof is just drags the team down, but most people are ignorant and only know MoF as a debuffer, so the call for Renegade even if they have CA up almost always. And again, CW have got out of favor in endgame content, in general, just Spellstorm died out faster. And with the Oppressor changes, MoF will soon to follow.
This is why Renegade needs more buffs than debuffs to compete with the highly more sought after support classes do, temp, gf, even buff hr.
When you make secret changes like conduit of ice and icy terrain to proc once aura of courage and not for each tic then you have to do it for every class to have similar aura of courage proc.
Great weapon fighter coming into my mind can make aura of courage to be big part of his damage because hit very fast with his att wills.
You are the devs you know how to adjust great weapon fighter to have similar procs aura of courage like the other classes.
Suggestion: Make it increase the damage of Arcane attacks as well or change it to 1.5% per stack. Would make it easier to replace Chill Presence for Renegade builds because its harder for Renegade builds to stack chill.
Suggestion: Also make "Frost Wave" increase damage of cold powers by 100%. So it can actually be somewhat useful
Right now I only see Frost Wave being some what useful in pvp(gross).
Suggestion: Arcane Power Field add 2 more seconds to its duration. So 10 seconds instead of 8.
And make the damage every 1 second instead of 2.
With the new changes it seems that Spellstorm paragon will be dead/useless next mod due to better encounter/class feats on Master of Flame. Here are my suggestions to fix that..
1st Suggestion: Change "Storm Spell" internal cooldown to 0.25 so basically by half
2nd Suggestion: Make "Sudden Storm" double the damage of the first enemy hit.
3rd Suggestion: "Maelstrom of Chaos" give a 5% damage self buff per rank that last 8 seconds after fully casted(Canceling won't give you the buff). So 20% damage self buff at rank 4 that lasts 8 seconds.
4rth Suggestion: "Icy Rays" Reduce cooldown by half.
The changes also made Oppressor tree build not worth using again.
Since 10% damage buff no longer stacks Renegade gonna be the only option for buff build and shatter strike does little to no damage now. So its not even good for dps or buff builds.
No point on going this route now. It was working fine as it was.. don't know what you guys were thinking.
More Suggestions:
"Assailant" Make it work with debuffs.
"Abyss of Chaos" Make it work with debuffs.
"Ice Knife" lower the casting time, it takes way to long to cast right now.
"Snap Freeze" Make it that it only works with only targets who are effect by chill. So pretty much vice versa.
"Spell Twisting" and "Snap Freeze" swapped positions.
spell twisting will kill recovery stat if they make this change.
Spell twisting would not kill the recovery stat at all, it would enhance it to be exact. Only reason I suggested this is because they removing pretty much every multi proc power(aoc, weapon enchantment,spellstorm nerf/fix) for cw and we need faster casting to make up for that in damage on all 3 of our feat trees. But yea after giving it more thought about Arcane power field 8 does seem fine. I was just thinking 10 seconds would be better when your hopping from mob wave to wave.
> When you make secret changes like conduit of ice and icy terrain to proc once aura of courage and not for each tic then you have to do it for every class to have similar aura of courage proc.
> Great weapon fighter coming into my mind can make aura of courage to be big part of his damage because hit very fast with his att wills.
> You are the devs you know how to adjust great weapon fighter to have similar procs aura of courage like the other classes.
Just when you thought our dps has been nerfed enough...
There seems to be a major misconception that other classes feature powers somehow translate into CW's dps.
Well... I can't agree with that. Wonder.
Technically speaking it can't be a NERF to CW as it doesn't meddle with any CW oriented skill. Period. You can't just say it's a nerf to CW, it makes no sense.
It does affect CW's damage, but that's an internal problem with the way class is lacking powers, not because of something else. Multiproc is a thing of the past, this is clear as a day!
What it can be perceived would be providing the actual information of just how poorly optimized CW actually is. And this is where all CW players point of interest should be applied to, made with great constructivism, without trying to be cynical about it. If you're cynical and poignant, then your voice won't be really heard no matter how correct you may be or appear to the people.
The class was broken from toe to skull on each and every occasion and as usual it is only thanks to the ACTing that the class was able to remain somewhat in the game thus far as a viable option. But that, too, creates another problem as there was a misconstruct which somehow was going to translate that CW is actually "in amazing spot"... which only happens if CWs utilize other people's powers to the maximum and run in specific case scenarios. That's NOT what a class should be made from ground-up! The class shouldn't leech upon other people's power and (de)buffs. And this "CW can do amazing damage" by utilizing two most unintuitive spells ever (Disintegrate, Ice Knife) is something that CWs themselves were talking about the most and have been trying to remain competitive by various tricks and plays upon other classes powers. DON'T act strong when you lack as a class on fundamental aspects. If one small ninjanerf/ninjafix is going to ruin your damaging output, then that's a huge issue and can only mean that the class is on basically life-support.
I understand when people opt to choose the best and most logical DPSing path that allows even 1-2% more damage in some cases so they choose to increase AoC proc/Damage by increasing HP/using Feytouched/using specific (de)buffs to maximize the potential ratio but I really do not understand why it is mandatory to have it as a thing. DON'T promote such things as a CLASS POWER that's mandatory and in any if all guides, always explain that such a thing is not mandatory, can change, will change and should be only used with caution. This is extremely important as we all know that the nature of NWO was always doing stuff like this and people should always expect their damaging properties to drastically change due to the smallest of changes to certain powers.
I'd rather be a weaker class and call for buffs where buffs are needed, than to rely on Aura of Courage even partially in order to present that as my skill/build/whatever. Aura of Courage is not important to me. I don't like it. I don't want it. I don't think it's a skillfull choice for any Wizard. It's also demoralizing and lowers CW's true potential to achieve great gameplay through sheer skill. I want skill back into CW, I do not want "press A to win scenarios" that CW's currently have with Disintegrate a.k.a Finger of Death. It just feels wrong to me, aesthetically. What also feels wrong to me is that some class can boost my Power to good heavens, and in return this same power boost is what I need in order to remain competitive with new content which arises.
I said it before, gonna say it again, I do not like content being made with power-sharing that's so effective that it outshines everything to the point where only speed of attack is important, in mind no want to be dependant upon other people's buffs and heals in order to survive by standing on one solitary spot, next to nine other people, so that we can feel victorious after collecting from 1/2 chests with bad RNG, without me even playing the build I want to play as it doesn't bring anything important to the party.
RANT OFF
Weapon Damage itself needs to be properly balanced, too. The mere 20 points in Weapon Damage can create a huge disparity not only among the weapon damage itself, weapon enchantments, but also encounter powers.
More damage + Melee = Less attack speed.
Less damage + Ranged = More attack speed.
Higher damage casting = Slower Casting, bigger radius.
Smaller damage casting = Faster Casting, smaller radius.
That's the holy grail of fundamental class balance. Buto ne class goes crazy and doesn't respect those rules, and that's GWF.
Normally I wouldn't have problem with it, as I didn't have problem with it for a long time, figuring that as it is a NORMAL thing to see such an obvious mistake in power dealings and given that multiproc was a thing of the past, now I see it's not really changing and I can't help but to wonder - why? Aside with CW's being broken and constantly suffering non-intentional nerfs to multiproc, why can't TRs skills of AT-will also do the same like GWF skills? If anything, TR should attack way faster due to weapon damage being halved in two and procing only once on initial hit. And the only and solitary logical explanation is that devs forgot or skipped over this extremely important fact of GWF's being able to SureStrike their way into victory in any case scenario and outshine, by far, all other classes in terms of raw use of Weapon Enchantments themselves. And that is a big problem, right? One class can use so many weapon enchants without any effort, whilst others can't and are, well, lagging behind in everything. When I spoke about that recently in GWF thread I got pitches and forks because some of them can't understand why their class is overperforming which creates unfairness simply because of an oversight, possibly by developers.
And as time goes by I do wonder - wtf? Just simple, daily and decent ---> WTF. Developers here simply made a terrible oversight, but I want it to turn into something POSITIVE because it opens the door to actually fixing the internal problems of weaker classes.
From my perspective
1. Sure Strike only activates Weapon Enchantment power on first strike only, or hits way, way slower than it hits now. At least 5 sec between each hit, 3 during Berserker and receive feat changes to utilize different weapon enchantments according to the desired playstyle. Want Radiant? Play tanky, get a +10% buff against undeads for 4-5-6 sec after 3 succes hits. Want lightning? Play aggressive and chain as many enemies at once to receive a +5% buff against all types for 8-9-10 sec (except Lycanthropes). Want fire? Use AoE at-wills and skills to increase each burning case scenario. After three hits each next grants 1% more damage up to 15% more damage party wide for 1-2-3 sec. ITC 2 sec between hits. DoTs can't hit more than 15 enemies, but scale with other (de)buffs. There are SO MANY options to make GWF one of the best and fun to play classes in game that would require SKILL to play properly. Want tankier? Get bloody enchant. Doesn't work on Skellies! After each 3 hits get 2.5% increased life-steal and 1% life-steal severity. Each 1000 points in Defense increase this by additional 1.5% for LS and 0.5% for LSS. Additionally, you make living creatures bleed, decreasing their movement by 25%. Control immune targets instead get 5% increased damage for 3-4-5 sec. It would be glorious!
2. CW gets a huge buff (100% Crit Severity as Sharpedge proposed instead of EotS granting 100% Critical Strike).
And funny thing is that simple animation fix can really improve this problem, without even changing the weapon damage for GWFs. And if that's not the case, then why can't Sure Strike also only hit on first strike instead of each subsequent hit? All of it makes no sense. If the class had weaker damage per weapon, like TR or HR, then it would make sense for their weapons to hit maybe twice or proc twice. Heck, even apply two different weapon enchantments to each slot and use Elemental stuff as a great way to boost their damaging properties. Whenever I play Dual Wielding classes in any game I almost always combine two different aspects to increase maximum potential. The only exception being Dragon's Dogma where I really needed that Holy dual weilding daggers for my Assassin class whenever I was playing against the Undead. Now that is a good way to balance out the weapon damage. More damage PER type of enemy. That alone creates diversity, would actually make each and every class to carry around several weapon enchantments and different damaging properties. But that might never happen here any further than having runeslots for armor and I'm not even sure those work as WAI tbh.
And that's how the first at-wills were made back in the days. They had that figured out nicely and perhaps there were only needing some animation fixes, like checking that attack speed animation is perhaps 0.5, 0.6 sec faster or slower. And that alone creates a huge difference in actual combat and the way that the game functions.
In this video the gameplay looks deceptively easy, but for anyone who has actually played this class in question they will know it is very challenging. If such gameplay existed in NW, I would drop everything else and play this class in a heartbeat, just from the pure fun aspect.