M15: Trickster Rogue Class Changes

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  • scottyfnc#2957
    scottyfnc#2957 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    Now that Combat Advantage is "working" right in the preview servers anyone have a good test on the rogue?

    Too many interactions have question marks. a couple powers are still bugged. Dev's "supposed" changes as mentioned by noworries dev are still not implemented. Testing is basically a waste of time. I blew my saturday morning away doing it anyways. At 13k (13k flat that is) ilvl on preview, boons up through river district (no guild boons on preview) and no double offense rings, the best i could do on a t-rex in chult was just under 8 minutes. Higher lvl rogues i tested with 100% Armor pen and around 15k ilvl fared better. With a load out specifically for t-rexing, skullcracker faired the best. He did 4 minutes flat. I can do t-rex with my current ilvl and non BiS-Meta, non power looping build in less than 4 on live. (granted i get an extra 4k power from guild boons on live). I even tried full debuff on preview - CB, wicked reminder, sly, and disheartening and that load out actually took me the longest time to kill. Debuff rogue is probably useless. My recommendation, don't bother with preview unless you want to waste a day being depressed. Not saying i'm the greatest rogue or anything, but we spent 6 hours and i used every suggestion everyone could come up with in the group. Maybe t-rex isn't the best test, but if you want a high armor tough boss to kill and test on repeatedly it seemed like the easiest thing to do was hang out in chult. I'm sure the elites here will do better with higher ilvl, but i feel my 13k ilvl is more representative of those who are in process of grinding it out on a daily trying to get BiS, trying to get the enchants up, trying to get those double offense rings, trying to get the hunts done, trying to solo grind and RAQing through the game. Oh yeah and less damage = less lifesteal. So i was definitely dying a lot more.
    Post edited by scottyfnc#2957 on
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    I never used powerlooping on my tr.
    If the way things are on preview go through, all that I have to lose is my mobility, which sucks. However, if recovery is not needed my play style won't be hindered too much.

    As of now, on live server I only use 4000 recovery.

    Once mod 15 hits I will need 18000 recovery to maintain my build as viable.

    I don't like it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • doublerainbow#8002
    doublerainbow#8002 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    The proposed changes will not benefit my TR. They will make it extremely difficult to get into groups running end game content. I would much prefer to continue to do good dps. But if the great TR nerf must happen, just put it back to where it was in mod 13.5 so I don't have to get charity runs through end game content
  • mongoosemobster
    mongoosemobster Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    I have spent a few days to think about the changes coming to the game for the rouge. Now i don't like to change my playstyle, but it's going to happen. Taking away the power looping i saw coming for quite a while now but i fear now that all the trs dailys will not be worth poping, with lurkers assult punishing the rouges who play high ap builds by blocking ap, shocking execution bieng a pvp power, blood bath bieng too weak in current pve, now corage breaker only putting a small debuff on the target and wwob bieng flat out nerfed. Is there anyway you can balance the dailies, such as taking away the ap block from lirkers but make it to where it doesn't stack or something along those lines

    Hateful Knives + Razor Action + Seething Knives = ^_______^
  • midofff
    midofff Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    this destruction of the TR will cost u many of ur players!! RIP neverwinter
  • nihlocke#5890
    nihlocke#5890 Member Posts: 69 Arc User

    I never used powerlooping on my tr.

    If the way things are on preview go through, all that I have to lose is my mobility, which sucks. However, if recovery is not needed my play style won't be hindered too much.



    As of now, on live server I only use 4000 recovery.



    Once mod 15 hits I will need 18000 recovery to maintain my build as viable.



    I don't like it.


    Could you please elaborate on that? What do you do with that much Recovery and what does your rotation look like on preview?
  • ardaingeal
    ardaingeal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User

    @noworries#8859

    *Shouting in PE/chult/etc*
    TR: "18k TR LFG any"
    Others: "Hahaha TR? No thanx"
    -
    Others: "Need Anyone for random dungeons"
    TR: "Invite me please"
    Others: "Need anyone ( except tr's) for random dungeons"
    -

    Friends: "Yo bro, wanna play dungeons?"
    Me: "Cool, lemme jump on my TR"
    Friends: "Umm No TR please"
    -

    Others: "Heroic farming pm for inv."
    TR: "*PM* Invite please"
    Others: "You TR? Sorry full"



    Sigh I sadly remember those days. Looks like they're nerfing us right back to Beta.....
  • scottyfnc#2957
    scottyfnc#2957 Member Posts: 15 Arc User

    @noworries#8859

    *Shouting in PE/chult/etc*
    TR: "18k TR LFG any"
    Others: "Hahaha TR? No thanx"
    -
    Others: "Need Anyone for random dungeons"
    TR: "Invite me please"
    Others: "Need anyone ( except tr's) for random dungeons"
    -

    Friends: "Yo bro, wanna play dungeons?"
    Me: "Cool, lemme jump on my TR"
    Friends: "Umm No TR please"
    -

    Others: "Heroic farming pm for inv."
    TR: "*PM* Invite please"
    Others: "You TR? Sorry full"



    Sigh I sadly remember those days. Looks like they're nerfing us right back to Beta.....
    Working on my transmutes to look like a neverwinter beggar. Can't remember the name of the dagger, but a guildie offered me that wooden dagger that has dmg 100-100 for testing. I initially thought he was just making fun of me and offering me a transmute.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @nihlocke#5890 said:
    > I never used powerlooping on my tr.
    >
    > If the way things are on preview go through, all that I have to lose is my mobility, which sucks. However, if recovery is not needed my play style won't be hindered too much.
    >
    >
    >
    > As of now, on live server I only use 4000 recovery.
    >
    >
    >
    > Once mod 15 hits I will need 18000 recovery to maintain my build as viable.
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't like it.
    >
    >
    > Could you please elaborate on that? What do you do with that much Recovery and what does your rotation look like on preview?


    PM me in game I dont want to discuss details here. The enemy is watching.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • jim#8036
    jim#8036 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Not my first post on this, But we all would like to know if your seriously takeing well thought out suggestions into account. Having a very hard time doing my daily/weekly grinds (17k+). Looking very hard to get out now, even today no one asks for a TR for anything, that should be your thermometer and the health of the TR, nerf us and let me be on my way.
  • maturutuki
    maturutuki Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    For me as there is a problem with balancing PvP and PvE it will be nice to split them.
    As there are loadouts mechanism implemented, just make PvP and PvE loadouts separately, then balance both without making compromise between PvP and PvE.
  • leonidrex
    leonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    jim#8036 said:

    Not my first post on this, But we all would like to know if your seriously takeing well thought out suggestions into account. Having a very hard time doing my daily/weekly grinds (17k+). Looking very hard to get out now, even today no one asks for a TR for anything, that should be your thermometer and the health of the TR, nerf us and let me be on my way.

    what are you smoking? TR is the best dps RN

  • arcanjo86
    arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    itc, cb single target, ic,wob for aoe not tr player problem they dont see the percentage of power these give
  • mongoosemobster
    mongoosemobster Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    For me as there is a problem with balancing PvP and PvE it will be nice to split them.
    As there are loadouts mechanism implemented, just make PvP and PvE loadouts separately, then balance both without making compromise between PvP and PvE.

    They already have modifiers in certain powers/feats that make big changes in PVP. I don't know why they don't work on those a bit.

    I don't think Devs understand the class (well, the TR and the DC. For better or worse the HR and the CW are not changing much status quo). The GWF notes show that, at least this time, there is understanding of its gameplay, mechanics, and most importantly what is enjoyable about the class. So that they can carefully work around said theme or themes, handling the "enjoyable" aspects of the class very tenderly while roughing it up with other parts.
  • theothergaliusz#7671
    theothergaliusz#7671 Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Hello (i cannot post a messages on forum with main account so i created new one - i will delete this account when my main account is fixed)

    I understand that a lot of people who love this game are frustrated with incoming changes and i am not exception, but i will try to be as much as neutral as i can be. I will try to address few problems which i see and maybe together we will find new way to fix them.

    From my point of view:
    1) PVP bloodbath daily combined with Sigil of the Devoted (other combination of feats that increase Action point)

    ShortDescription:This make the TR invisible and hard to be targeted by other players. In PVE TR do not use this daily because we can easy lose party members buffs. After we use 2x BloodBath player die or they still cannot target us because we run away with stealth. This is the only scenario i know.

    MySolution: Please make bloodbath deal less damage and **block incoming ActionPoint for the duration of 5sec like it is similar to Lurker's Assault**

    This should break the chain atack of bloodbath after bloodbath. I would like to see Bloodbath inheritance lurker ActionPoint gain block.

    2)There is something that people do not know about the score board. I want to make it clear. I belive a lot of people observe the scoreBoard in CODG and its fun when two DPS (GWF and TR) compare their damage.
    With the first exchange you can see which character deal more damage, but it is a LIE.

    The board show how much damage was deal by one player. THAT IS TRUE
    What everyone miss is that we extends the real MAX HEALTH of enemy we killed.

    e.g.
    The first group of monster in CODG. TR execute [Soul Sight Crystal](50%) + empty ActionPoint with daily(23-25%) and finisher LASHING BLADE(with stealth) on a single target LICH in the middle.

    WHen GWF is beating the LICH to less than 20% health the TR get additional increase in damage for 25%(Deathknell)+25%(Last Moments)

    This one hit on target below 30% health make such a big difference with GWF who got 30bilions damage on the board, but in 1s TR damage skyrock from 10bilion damage to 57bilion damage.
    This damage is dealt to an enemy with atlast 1 Health bar point and make TR first at the board in term of damage. When we have a breaks between groups - the skills refresh so the other classes can only catch up to TR in one minute before next artifact boost.

    What i want to point here is that if we calculate scoreboard result base on actual damage base on maximum monster health then TR damage would be consider one of the lowest. I am serious here.

    If the whole dungeon have only 1 monster with 100 health. After 10min of fight 5 people kill it. It would be fair for all players to see that Player 1 deal 25 damage, P2 25, P3 25, P4 15 and DC deal 10 damage to the monster that have 100 health.
    What we have now is that we killed monster with 100 health but P1 deal 75 and P2 60.

    Please do not consider this as request for new damage board. I just wanted to make a point here. TR only deal BOoST damage for 1 s with 1 HIT with a synergyBuild and rotation in hands. This is why everyone are tricked by rogue that they deal a lot of damage. Its like a 'Mortal Combat' fatality move at the end.

    3)TR have two hearts:
    Stealth
    SelfPowerGain ability with feats, daily, encounter.

    This is what make our class special and different from other classes.

    When you have HR - he can switch between melee and range abilities. This is the class speciality.
    Let say we remove it and put Range and Melee with paragon path. It will break the class and it will ends like Whispeher Knife for TR when one Paragon Path is useless and the other is a lot better.

    Stealth ability does not have much impact on our class. (Its a lie for beginers)
    This class feature buff one selected Encounter - there is no strategy... only Lashing Blade have decent additional effect. It also simple without special effect and also make 100% crit chance. MOD14 GEAR is extending crit chance every mode.

    a)The same is for power increase every MOD with new gear. It is a good thing for TR perspective and probably headache for developer balancing team, but i will repeat that this is a TR speciality no other class have it? and it is fundamental thing like one pilar that give an uniqu experience with neverwinter.

    The power is used with each skills and it is a source for recovery/deflect/ encounter cooldowns, ActionPointGain and when we remove it. We lose synergy with a lot of feats, encounters. This list is bigger. When you removed power, you removed damage from all of the skills.. then with new patch i noticed increase in cooldown on skills i am using now, further less damage. But when you removed SelfPowerGain you removed damage and increase cooldown on all our dailies, encounters. That just triggering people emotions and disappointment.

    for example SOD is nerfed or back to where it was before. When removed POWER( and recovery from it) this will be hard for a lot of player to execute 2 lashing blades with 1 SOD. Maybe impossible - i do not know that but what i see - we lose a huge amount of recovery and action point GAIN from power. We really like to trigger Daily as fast as possible.

    If anyone look at the problem with ScoreBoard i have described and then noticed that with removed SelfPowerBuff TR speciality there no longer will be 1 strong HIT or finisher move.
    "...GWF who got 30bilions damage on the board, but in 1s TR damage skyrock from 10bilion damage to 13bilion damage."

    the true speciality of TR is one strong hit. the Engine to do that is SelfPowerGain. How to take control of this is a dificult task.

    I have wrote a very long wall of text with a lot of grammer mistakes(sorry). I am also tired so i will stop here.

    Most of TR was looking for the birth of whisper knife but this is not a simple thing to do.

    Thank you for improving game, but please dont make a big mistake with TR class.
  • ironraine#6605
    ironraine#6605 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I think the developers must have a fundamental difference of opinion on what a TR is. I have always thought of them as a glass cannon. Where they should do lots of damage but be delicate so the struggle should be balancing how to stay alive rather than how to be effective enough to actually do anything. Unfortunately until the last mods that was only partially true: it was a struggle to stay alive but TRs didn't do enough damage to be effective. Mod 15 looks like it will take me back to being delicate and ineffective. I am sad.
  • oldschooldndplyr
    oldschooldndplyr Member Posts: 33 Arc User

    Any comment Devs? Some very insightful alternative changes have been suggested. I've seen some changes to other classes based on player feedback, how about here?

    Bueller? Bueller?

    Dev's don't care about our opinions.
    They don't play their own game and the feedbacks given by experienced players are being ignored.

    R.I.P TR.
    Oh, I know... I was just giving them a chance to comment on why they insist on breaking TR's... just trying to be optimistic I suppose.

    Still... any comment devs?



    *crickets*
  • blag001
    blag001 Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    @noworries#8859 @balanced#2849

    Devs?

    So you already have feedback information/tests by some of the most TRs expert players, players that already made posts and guides about TR builds and it's power mechanics. And they are giving you numbers and explanations of what its happening on preview server. And they are giving also reasonable suggestions of how to balance the class without breaking it.

    That said, you now have a feedback for us, TRs players, of about what's happening and being done and what's is taking into account of those players feedback?

    We are waiting your words.

    And sincerely... what is being shown to us is not "balance".... that's called "kill"

    If those changes come alive the TRs may sit along the Test Dummies, because that's what the TRs will become.

  • crash109#9600
    crash109#9600 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    You call this balancing the tr? Yea maybe we will be balanced enough to do the same damage as a cleric. You realize we are dps class right? We finally get the fix we have needed for a long time and the very next mod you destroy us. We finally are being invited to queues again and being part of the game. I guess yall dont want that. You really need to rethink this. Trs are some of your most dedicated players. They have to be for sticking with you thru all of the previous nerfs. I guarantee you are going to lose a lot of your players with this "balance" of the rouge. I dont even know why I'm posting on here you never listen and its becoming obvious you don't care about your player base. I hope you listen to us this time. This nerf will be the final straw to a lot of people including me.
  • gosu#4653
    gosu#4653 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    To be honest this is not even a tr problem at all there's plenty of decent pvp classes out there and it's down to the player so sick of people ranting about trs learn to play your classes and stop moaning kthx
  • divectore
    divectore Member Posts: 187 Arc User

    divectore said:

    taznim said:



    I think part of the reason TR has such low base weapon damage is because

    you mean, having the second highest weapon damage in the game, just after gwf, is low base weapon damage? lol try with HR's melee weapons, they have about 1/3rd of gwf base weapon damage, i think you are forgetting that TR's have 2 weapons that add base weapon damage, main hand and off hand.
    The low number referred to as base damage by testers isn't the one on your weapon icons, its this number:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mtGzVOtdMt998qZz97odzeM4_FDQJWqKqLQOQK9Qgok/htmlview#
    those test were made with either main hand or off-hand, not both, so any values you see there, have to be mutiplied by 2, and TR is at the same lvl of weapon damages as GWF in those test.
  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    jim#8036 said:

    Not my first post on this, But we all would like to know if your seriously takeing well thought out suggestions into account. Having a very hard time doing my daily/weekly grinds (17k+). Looking very hard to get out now, even today no one asks for a TR for anything, that should be your thermometer and the health of the TR, nerf us and let me be on my way.

    TR are one of the best dps in the game as of mod 14.

    For me as there is a problem with balancing PvP and PvE it will be nice to split them.
    As there are loadouts mechanism implemented, just make PvP and PvE loadouts separately, then balance both without making compromise between PvP and PvE.

    They already have modifiers in certain powers/feats that make big changes in PVP. I don't know why they don't work on those a bit.

    I don't think Devs understand the class (well, the TR and the DC. For better or worse the HR and the CW are not changing much status quo). The GWF notes show that, at least this time, there is understanding of its gameplay, mechanics, and most importantly what is enjoyable about the class. So that they can carefully work around said theme or themes, handling the "enjoyable" aspects of the class very tenderly while roughing it up with other parts.
    CW base mechanics are changing. Since mod 12 CW went from Thaum to Opp and with mod 15 we are now going to the Renegade feat path. CW is the worst DPS in the game and nothing is changing come mode 15.

    A friend tested out the TR and the damage does drop from the mod 14 bugs and glitches that exist for TR. The cool down adjustments should not happen as it is impacting all TR builds. I hope the devs modify the cool downs a bit to make encounters come back faster for the TR as these minor changes will help quite a bit. There are a few other things but I rarely play TR but friends that have been testing it out said what they see in mod 15, hopefully the devs will come back and make further adjustments in mod 16 to improve the class further.

    What I like about the mod 15 changes is the devs seem to be making long term builds for TR, DC, etc... but as I stated in DC and CW threads, the lack of proper up front communication about the long term goal has really hurt mod 15 class balancing.
  • kierna1917
    kierna1917 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    mod 15 changes
    reka san NE MOŽE
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:
    > Not my first post on this, But we all would like to know if your seriously takeing well thought out suggestions into account. Having a very hard time doing my daily/weekly grinds (17k+). Looking very hard to get out now, even today no one asks for a TR for anything, that should be your thermometer and the health of the TR, nerf us and let me be on my way.
    >
    > TR are one of the best dps in the game as of mod 14. For me as there is a problem with balancing PvP and PvE it will be nice to split them.
    > As there are loadouts mechanism implemented, just make PvP and PvE loadouts separately, then balance both without making compromise between PvP and PvE.
    >
    > They already have modifiers in certain powers/feats that make big changes in PVP. I don't know why they don't work on those a bit.
    >
    > I don't think Devs understand the class (well, the TR and the DC. For better or worse the HR and the CW are not changing much status quo). The GWF notes show that, at least this time, there is understanding of its gameplay, mechanics, and most importantly what is enjoyable about the class. So that they can carefully work around said theme or themes, handling the "enjoyable" aspects of the class very tenderly while roughing it up with other parts.
    >
    > CW base mechanics are changing. Since mod 12 CW went from Thaum to Opp and with mod 15 we are now going to the Renegade feat path. CW is the worst DPS in the game and nothing is changing come mode 15.
    >
    > A friend tested out the TR and the damage does drop from the mod 14 bugs and glitches that exist for TR. The cool down adjustments should not happen as it is impacting all TR builds. I hope the devs modify the cool downs a bit to make encounters come back faster for the TR as these minor changes will help quite a bit. There are a few other things but I rarely play TR but friends that have been testing it out said what they see in mod 15, hopefully the devs will come back and make further adjustments in mod 16 to improve the class further.
    >
    > What I like about the mod 15 changes is the devs seem to be making long term builds for TR, DC, etc... but as I stated in DC and CW threads, the lack of proper up front communication about the long term goal has really hurt mod 15 class balancing.

    The game is it beta mode anymore, it's too late for huge changes.

    Like any marriage you cant just change who you are to be something worse or the person you are with won't be happy.

    Like any relationship, what you do to attract someone is what you must maintain to keep them.

    That said changing all the core stuff that made our tr's work 5 years later is a great way to make us feel cheated on and find someone more loyal to us. Someone that will listen to us and hear us. Someone that understands who we are and what we want.

    We played this game because tr had the things we wanted.

    Dont ruin the relationship.

    So far all you said was," mmm.how about we move to venus" but we are still on earth. Move to venus (i.e. current mod 15 changes) and you can blast off without us.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • iii#6891
    iii#6891 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I was interested in what stands in the thread, so i thought lets make some statistics while you are at.

    I have to say, i underestimated the time you need to read this and after a short time it becomes very repetitive.
    A short summery:
    (1: You Monsters, why do you want to kill the TR; 2: Why are the devs/mods not answering; 3: some arguing between user)
    - but many posts also were entertaining/funny or interesting.

    To the poor guy who have/want to read to all this, here is an overview.

    I noticed the first posts started with
    Reactions (WTF/sad/angry) : 26

    After that there came many
    Complains: 98 (general against damage reduction, some against movementspeed or pvp over pve changes)
    -> sub suggestion: token for rechange class

    in between there were a few
    jokes about the neo useless tr: 12 (some of them were really good)

    At the end of the thread you could see more
    request of more presence of admins/devs: 36


    A small overview about the acceptance
    Like: 3
    Observing: 9
    Dislike (complains): 98

    I didn't look on names, if someone wrote his opinion twice, he counted double.

    Also i want to give in account, that in forum are more likely veteran/expirienced player.
    The changes are more enjoyable for new player i guess.
    And of course the people who are unhappy are morelikly to say something.

    feedback, explaining: 31
    tremeliques, page1 (How buffing for tr works in M14 and request to fix existing bugs first)
    nooneatza, page2 (video with damage in M15 preview)
    uburgi, page3 (goes over the changes and gives feedback)
    tremeliques, page3 (goes over the changes and gives feedback)
    (nihlocke, page5) (Explenation why TR need power)
    sh00termcl0vin, page5 (Daily spamming tr in PvP)
    skatopsixos7, page5 (repeated page6) (reapeated page12) (Explenation why TR need power)
    aymed, page5 (small feedback, few suggestions)
    demonmonger, page6 (feedback towarts speed and stealth, (he is not happy))
    jash15, page7 (feedback towarts damage and speed)
    tchefi, page7 (uselessness about disarming traps)
    arcanjo86, page8 (feedback to changes)
    trgluestickz, page9 (goes over the changes and gives feedback)
    blur, page9 (goes over the hotfix changes, "one Power stat back, best would be WoB")
    zephryn7, page9 (smokebomb/combatadvantage and movementspeed)
    tremeliques, page9 (many posts) (feedback over changes)
    mirlegris, page10 (would like to see more/reworked feats that buff TR independent from dailys)
    trgluestickz, page10 (2 posts) (feedback over all changes)
    taznim, page11 (Explenation why TR need power)
    skatopsixos7 page11 (theme mixed feedback)
    kythelion, page12 (feedback over all changes)
    scottyfnc, page12 (stealth rework takes to long to get full again)
    einsieg, page13 (problems of TR to get more dmg)

    Suggestions:21
    elwing, page 2 (2 posts) (feedback, small changes suggested, powerloop: only last buff counts)
    micky1p00, page 3 (2 posts) (feedback, reconsider most critical changes)
    intelll, page 3 (split PvP and PvE)
    demonmonger, page4 (keep stealth cooldown 10 sec instead 12.5)
    mirlegris, page4 (2 posts) (feedback, small suggestions, request for buff against powerloss)
    mirlegris, page5 (Buffs all additive instead multiplicative)
    pitshade, page5 (fix mobs push TR during Duelist's Flurry)
    taznim, page6 (increase power from WoB less and less with number of hits)
    schietindebux, page10 (power classfeature suggestion)
    promytheas, page10 (suggestion to make dailys powerloop possible without group buffs)
    trgluestickz, page12 (summery over suggestions dealing with powerloss)
    scottyfnc, page12 (add heavy dmg to dailys instead of using them as buffer with suggestion how)
    iii, page12/13 (2 posts) (reworked/rearranged paths to strengthen a core identity, add dmg in feats as buff)
    thefabricant, page13 (Blade Flurry changes)
    zephryn7, page13 (tr becomes buffer with Stackable combat advantage)
    chrsty740, page13 (split PvP and PvE)
    theothergaliusz, page14 (feedback about scoreboard, mechanics, changes, bloodbath)

    Bugs: 3
    blur, page3 (+suggestions, +explenations)
    inbetween here are some posts that CombatAdvantage doesn't work
    trgluestickz, page13
    odinslasher, page13

    other: 12

    I think towarts the question, what to do with the missing power, the sollution
    to make the power gain from WoB and CB additive instead multiplicative not perfect.
    Sure, it would allow player the "old" playstyle, and everybody would be happy, but it also have the downside,
    that you "force" player to take these Dailys, which lower the variety.
    In my opinion it would be better to change the Dailys just into different types of
    dmg dailys and add the buffs in the feats (like in my suggestion ^^)

    Also i guess some people didn't see noworries answer on page9, would be good if the changes would be added on the first site.
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    OK apart from asking for a class reroll, we should tell you why we think that the changes are terrible for PVE TRs.

    Players should always discuss the reasons behind how they feel about changes. Saying you hate it is fine, but it doesn't open the door for any conversations back and forth and is far less likely to result in adjustments that you'd like to see. We do appreciate the different detailed feedback that has been left in the thread so far.

    A change of this size is always going to bring up a lot thoughts, many of them unhappy, about how the class they're used to is changing. And in this case, some of the changes probably were a bit too far.

    We do want to stick to having the power looping aspect of TR removed, but some other adjustments may not have been needed and some compensation changes may not have been enough. It is also worth making sure everyone knows that Combat Advantage is not working on preview currently ( a fix has been made and hopefully will be in the next preview update). So take that into account with any testing that is being done.

    Here are some adjustments we're looking into:

    Low Blows: Reverted back to 5/10/15/20/25%
    Skullcracker: Base duration increased to 10 seconds
    Skullcracker: Bonus duration increased to 5 seconds
    One With the Shadows: Damage bonus increased to 40%
    Shadowborn: Damage increased to 20/40/60/80/100
    Duelist's Flurry: Bleed damage restored to previous amount
    It's been a while now since this post, and I figured it might be worth a nudge...

    Let me begin by congratulating Cryptic on the amount of irony one forum thread can generate from so little input.

    For the only dev involvement to come from staff with handles involving "Balanced" and "No Worries" you deserve points, but for the ONLY feedback on user comments to be in the form of explaining why it is important to explain the thinking behind your comments is genius.

    Someone is playing a game right?

    This is one of those, "This game would be so easy to run if it weren't for all those pesky players" things, yeah?

    You began this thread assuming that the changes would bring some level of happy positive vibes.
    Either that or someone has a real EQ deficiency and probably shouldn't be representing business interests on official forums.

    Its quite clear to everyone that these changes are not filling people with happy vibes, and with all due respect the sooner someone at Cryptic acknowledges this, properly... not with vague comments about "maybe" and "probably", the better the chances of mending some fences on this issue.

    Just say something like, "Yeah, we missed how XX nerf would have a negative knock on effect with YY feat and ZZ rotation. Sorry... we'll get on to fixing it, so that we can achieve the goal of reducing the Power Loop meta and give other builds some extra vigour, but not nerf the class out of end game viability."

    Don't drop a half hearted, "we're thinking about doing this..." without following up or explaining further.
    Because, you see, it "doesn't open the door for any conversations back and forth and is far less likely to result in adjustments that WE'd like to see."
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    don't add speed boost to ITC from stealth

    Sneak Attack: Increases your Movement Speed and Recharge Speed by an additional 5% per rank (down from 10%)
    Do not lower sneak attack to 5% per rank!

    Skillful Infiltrator: Run speed per rank reduced to 2.5% (from 5%)
    Do not reduce the speed % per rank to 2.5!

    Problem solved.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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