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Salvage and Dungeon Chests

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  • kalimoucho44kalimoucho44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    Salvage items were a good way for a guild to share AD and buy stronghold pack by the GM

    Can we have a system for the members of a guild to give AD to their guild ? a chest or a guild bank slot ?
    Tr BlackbombA
    French guild : L'Ordre Du Dragon Noir
  • draconislupusdraconislupus Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    Let me start with saying that I know that I'm part of an impressively small portion of the player base, maybe I'm the only one in my position. As such I fully understand that this change was not meant to effect me as bad as it will. It was meant to help the over all economy of the game and it probably will in the end. Let me start with some info about my account and then how my day is usually laid out.

    I have 13 characters and my main is a 14.2 k Templock. So I'm not end game but was working to get there.

    1. I come home from work and do my first round of invoking.

    2. I start resetting my professions on all my characters. I have all 9 slots open on all 13 characters. 6 of my characters have all maxed professions. 2 are working on the last 1. And the other 5 are about halfway through theirs.

    3. About halfway through I have to stop and do my second invoke cycle.

    4. I finish resetting my professions and repost any AH items.

    5. I also check the AH for items that I'm interested in.

    6. I do my third invoke cycle.

    7. I log off to make myself something to eat.

    8. I log back on to get my fourth invoke.

    9. I log off and go to bed.

    10. I get up and log on to get my fifth invoke cycle done before going to work.

    On a good day, maybe once or twice a week, I'm able to get back on and run Stronghold stuff for Influence. And maybe once I'm able to play longer.

    So as you can see I have very little time to play the game. As such the majority of my AD comes from Invoking. Before Mod 14 I made around 71,000 AD a day. After Mod 14 I make around 53,000 AD. With Mod 15 that will drop to around 20,000 AD a day, maybe. I say maybe because that is from Professions and I have no idea what the Professions rework will do to that. I've been doing this for the time being so that I could still improve as best as I can until my schedule can change to give me more time.

    Without being able to buy salvage and salvaging it to gain the invoking bonus AD I will no longer be able to improve at all.

    This change will make the game untenable with my real life. As I said in the beginning I realize I may be the only person in this type situation.

    Now the stated goal is to improve the whole player base so here is my suggestion.

    Make the invoking Bonus RAD simply RAD again. Before the cap this would not work but with the cap it really well only effect players in my situation. You would have to have 26 characters to hit the 100k daily cap from just invoking and for anyone who has time to play, and on the rare days that I'm able to, it wouldn't matter because they would hit the cap anyway without this.
  • billyboy#2644 billyboy Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I have more than 300 keys...thus 300 reroll token ? Never gonna use them. How about AD instead ?
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    So... Mmmm how will this help the economy? When the 100k RAD cap was put in place, I thought I'd see some changes in prices, but basically everything has stayed the same while I feel I get less daily AD than before.

    Somehow most people have a ton of AD and can just go with buying rank 13s and other stuff and get endgame ready? I am relying on the lockbox gambling here to get the AD tbh.

    Well, I *hope* at least we get to see a change in PC economy after this one, but I feel like everything will stay the same.
  • muminekm#3459 muminekm Member Posts: 248 Arc User

    I have more than 300 keys...thus 300 reroll token ? Never gonna use them. How about AD instead ?

    It's reroll for chest not retraining tokens. So you will use them (to reroll chest content so you have more chances to get something nice).
  • downesy#8045 downesy Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    WOW! time and time again you find a way to absolutely HAMSTER your players off! rather then TAKE TAKE TAKE how bout you GIVE the players what they want! GIVE them better things to spend their AD on in ZEN market! this will help with AD market issues revamp the zen market add better mounts add artifacts do something rather being lazy like always!

    Here's a huge money maker why don't you add an unbind token that you can change an item from "bound to character" to "bound to account" do you actually realise how much you could make from this? people will buy loads of them! also it will make people change their mains more often and switch items between chars! this would be a much better way of getting rid of AD in the game by adding things THAT PLAYERS ACTUALLY WANT!!!!!

    HAMSTER filter manually applied by moderator.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    @noworries#8859 what about currency keys, i.e. the ones made in the Journal for campaign currencies and used in Rise of Tiamat and Throne of the Dwarven Gods? Do they just get rendered useless? Converted to rerolls?

    Also, how about the players who get their AD mainly from hunts? Will there be added RAD to hunts too? If not, why not given that this is an activity that - at least as far as Barovia is concerned - is actually enjoyed by a lot of players.

    Finally, what is the RAD rewards for queues going to be? Will it be comparable with what the dungeon/skirmish drops in salvage now (such as for Castle Never, three pieces of salvage from bosses and two from the chests)?
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • muminekm#3459 muminekm Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    ilithyn said:

    @noworries#8859 what about currency keys, i.e. the ones made in the Journal for campaign currencies and used in Rise of Tiamat and Throne of the Dwarven Gods? Do they just get rendered useless? Converted to rerolls?

    He worded it in different way (he calls all those chest "legendary key chests") but those keys should still exist. And we will be able to reroll content of those chest as well but I believe it will work this way:

    1) Open chest and use campaign key or legendary key.

    2) You don't like content: reroll (1st reroll). Use 1 reroll and DO NOT use another campaign/legendary key (I hope..).

    3)-5) Another possible rerolls.

  • krysnytekrysnyte Member Posts: 47 Arc User

    Let me start with saying that I know that I'm part of an impressively small portion of the player base, maybe I'm the only one in my position. As such I fully understand that this change was not meant to effect me as bad as it will. It was meant to help the over all economy of the game and it probably will in the end. Let me start with some info about my account and then how my day is usually laid out.

    I have 13 characters and my main is a 14.2 k Templock. So I'm not end game but was working to get there.

    1. I come home from work and do my first round of invoking.

    2. I start resetting my professions on all my characters. I have all 9 slots open on all 13 characters. 6 of my characters have all maxed professions. 2 are working on the last 1. And the other 5 are about halfway through theirs.

    3. About halfway through I have to stop and do my second invoke cycle.

    4. I finish resetting my professions and repost any AH items.

    5. I also check the AH for items that I'm interested in.

    6. I do my third invoke cycle.

    7. I log off to make myself something to eat.

    8. I log back on to get my fourth invoke.

    9. I log off and go to bed.

    10. I get up and log on to get my fifth invoke cycle done before going to work.

    On a good day, maybe once or twice a week, I'm able to get back on and run Stronghold stuff for Influence. And maybe once I'm able to play longer.

    So as you can see I have very little time to play the game. As such the majority of my AD comes from Invoking. Before Mod 14 I made around 71,000 AD a day. After Mod 14 I make around 53,000 AD. With Mod 15 that will drop to around 20,000 AD a day, maybe. I say maybe because that is from Professions and I have no idea what the Professions rework will do to that. I've been doing this for the time being so that I could still improve as best as I can until my schedule can change to give me more time.

    Without being able to buy salvage and salvaging it to gain the invoking bonus AD I will no longer be able to improve at all.

    This change will make the game untenable with my real life. As I said in the beginning I realize I may be the only person in this type situation.

    Now the stated goal is to improve the whole player base so here is my suggestion.

    Make the invoking Bonus RAD simply RAD again. Before the cap this would not work but with the cap it really well only effect players in my situation. You would have to have 26 characters to hit the 100k daily cap from just invoking and for anyone who has time to play, and on the rare days that I'm able to, it wouldn't matter because they would hit the cap anyway without this.

    Where did you make the AD from if all you were doing was invoking and not playing?
  • jayjay#5355 jayjay Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    This sounds interesting.

    Wouldn't now also be a good time to raise the daily rough AD limit to something more reasonable for the farmers? Something like 250k or 300k a day I think would be a sweet spot.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Ok my 2 cents now.

    Its to early to say anything for sure but it looks like another hit in a players pockets.

    Curently any dungeon offers you 2 chests with a chance to get also some salvage from bosses. (Lets put keys avilability aside for now)
    Depending on a quality of a dungeon and your luck - you can get from bosses and chests between 10k to even 20k of rAD. sometimes some more.

    Trick is without those random bosses drop you are going to be limited to boxes only. So now all depends on amounts of RAD we are going to be awarded for finishing dungeon. TBH I am not holding my breath here becouse if rAD would be also added to BHEs witch you can grind than dont expect too much from dungeons.

    But what is far more important now you would have a chance to reroll your drop. Sure no1 would do that on Malabog dungeon but in TONG? Lets assume that you are going to get 10k rAD in the chest but drop otherwise would be crappy - 5k for reroll - sure you would try to get UES, no luck... lets roll again, and up to the limit of 5 rolls.

    With 2 boxes you gona have 8 rerolls in total - so up to 40k AD are going to be consumed for rerolls - even now you cant get so much rAD form boxes and bosses drops - and if devs say its giong to be a sink - then......

    I wouldnt be suprise if overall players income form dungeons will drop significantly - or even will lead to CR when you need to spent more AD to finish dungeon then you can get out if it (without UES drop of course). Every1 would try to reroll their luck instead of trying 4 more runs to get decent drop.

    So up to a month after a release market gona be flooded with tons of drops as every1 would spent tokens/free rerolls.
    But those will run dry sooner then we think and gona be used to rerolls :D

    And best part is - It wont heal economy. Those billions of AD stashed on few accounts wont be used for rerolls. None of serious market players do dungeons any more. They will simply buy out cheap items form tokens flood and then wait to resell them on much better prices. All that change gona bring would be less AD in pockets of new/average players andanother huge drop of refinement prices


  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,216 Arc User

    This sounds interesting.



    Wouldn't now also be a good time to raise the daily rough AD limit to something more reasonable for the farmers? Something like 250k or 300k a day I think would be a sweet spot.

    Which pretty much puts it right back where it was before they put the cap on refining.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    @adinosii

    You seems missing a point - they change dungeons to be sinks of AD not to bring player a profit.
    Thats what they stated - so as I mentioned above to be sure of profit your average drop should be worth a bit more then worth of all possible rerolls - and that wont happen as it wouldnt be a sink any more.

    So in short more attempts for reroll you make there is a lesser chance to actually make any profit.
  • liljohn#1529 liljohn Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    I purchased VIP. 3 Dungeon keys daily equates to in game currency not available everyone. The terms of the deal have changed after the purchase giving me a loss. Re-roll tokens are not a substitute of value. I gotta check with my legal adviser. (Lol. Yes i really have one) Why does it matter? Look at the value of a key/x3/daily. i like the AD rework to boost the value of AD, but like anyone else, i dont want anyone taking what I earned or purchased.
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Pretty much what @adinosii said. It literally all depends on the numbers. Now you have to play about 1 hour to get your daily AD refine limit. I wonder how long it will take to hit the limit now.

    I really like the reroll idea though.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    gripnir78 said:

    So in short more attempts for reroll you make there is a lesser chance to actually make any profit.

    That would depend on the numbers. Consider UES right now. They go for over 200K on the AH and giving their current drop rate, it would be profitable to reroll. However, as I said, this will increase their supply, drive down the price until a balance point is reached, where it no longer is profitable to pay for a reroll. Of course, if you have reroll tokens, you might just as well use them anyhow.

    What I expect to happen in the future is that when a new dungeon appears, with new "desirable " loot appears, everyone will reroll, until the expected average return value has dropped to the point where paying for rerolls is no longer profitable.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • genodaman#0807 genodaman Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Hello. So let's see. I've been playing this game since 2 weeks after PS4 launch. I've seen many changes.
    Many of the changes ignoring your strong base. If you didn't finish your stronghold fast, well it's way more difficult now. The last 8 new zones give you 0 rewards to help in upgrading the stronghold. The DF gear and PVP gear that used to be awesome and worth helping to build a stronghold are useless now. Strongholds pointless ✓ The professions, which I have spent tons of money, time, and AD on. Black ice to improve gear, pointless. All of the MasterCraft gear that is weaker than dropped gear in poster hunts, pointless. Sooo Professions pointless ✓ The new Ravenloft zone and corresponding dungeon are much easier for lower item level players to survive in, and all the zone boons can now be purchased. The leveling up grind pointless ✓ The rng has always been horrible, I have spent too much AD and money for lockbox keys and in 3 years pulled 1 legendary mount. You have added a pointless adventure pack to the lockboxes which I pull multiple times each week. I purchased ViP and keep it current, so I receive my lockbox key daily to get the adventure pack, and the 3 epic dungeon keys which you are now going to change. ViP pointless ✓ You have been, and continue to alienate one of the strongest game bases I've had the pleasure of playing with, by making the grind pointless thereby slapping the older players in the face, in the hopes of luring new players. ✓ Here is an idea, How about making 90% of the game that you have made pointless, matter once more. You may actually keep some of your base, instead of continuing to push them away. Thank you.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User



    Standard/Epic/Daily keys will be no more. Starting in M15, non-legendary end chests will be able to be opened for free. This means for most queued content players will get a chest to open on every run without needing to have keys in their inventory. On top of this, the chest loot for both standard and legendary chests can now be rerolled for a small amount of AD (currently 5,000 AD but as with anything, things are subject to change). Overall the daily key mechanic was frustrating, and needing to spend AD on keys for additional dungeon runs in a given day wasn’t a great experience. After all, it is very unlikely that a player will only run 1 piece of queued content per day.

    There are probably two questions that many of you have right now. The first is: What happens to all of your existing keys? Standard/Epic/Daily keys will be turned into reroll tokens upon logging in. Daily and Epic keys exchange at a 1 to 1 ratio. Standard keys transfer at 2 keys to 1 reroll token (if you have a left over single standard key in your inventory, that still gets turned into a reroll token). There will be a trade in within Protector’s Enclave for keys that are in mail, auction house, guild banks, and anywhere else where they don’t automatically convert.


    All of my characters are sitting on hundreds of keys and I mean hundreds to point where one of my characters has almost 2K worth of epic keys. Honestly, I don't need 2K reroll tokens and I'm sure others here are in the same boat as I am. I rather it be transferred to a Legendary Dragon key bound by character at a rate of 5 epic keys to 1 legendary dragon key. That would be a more meaningful change and align up with key to key vs...key to reroll which makes no sense at all other than to have us have hundreds of unneeded reroll tokens.

    That is my thought on this change. Everything else I like and makes sense from a business and customer experience stand point. Though, you may upset more customer by not allowing us to earn AD from gear. If we cannot earn AD, make all gear sellable to the vendor as some pieces you cannot sell.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    I purchased VIP. 3 Dungeon keys daily equates to in game currency not available everyone. The terms of the deal have changed after the purchase giving me a loss. Re-roll tokens are not a substitute of value. I gotta check with my legal adviser. (Lol. Yes i really have one) Why does it matter? Look at the value of a key/x3/daily. i like the AD rework to boost the value of AD, but like anyone else, i dont want anyone taking what I earned or purchased.

    Well, it's actually a bit more complicated. With the keys, you have a single shot, and in the long run, you will basically be getting the "expected average" drop value from each chest. With the reroll tokens, you have a chance to get higher-value drops, so assuming you reroll if yout initial chest contents are below average, you would on the average get a higher value from the chests than before. How much higher, and whether it is worth paying for the reroll depends on the loot tables, but realistically, you should probably be just as well off.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • knowfearx99#3107 knowfearx99 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Lots of twisted panties here. Check the system out on preview when it's available. And then make a decision based on what it is.
  • fatninja144477fatninja144477 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    With this change and the Seals gear becoming catch up gear will the game be going back to the Mod 5 loot style where boss drops are now the BIS items? In the current set up most of the top gear is from the crown store. If this is changing will we see the return of set pieces?
    Valina Darksbane, CW 70
    That Guy You Know, OP 70
    Main, Valora GF 70 14.3k
    That Guy who hastes, DC 70
    Chopper, GWF 70
    Hel, SW 70
    Sora, HR 70
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User

    The main reason the economy is HAMSTER is because of Mastercrafting, we all pay for the actions of the few that make millions per day by NOT running any content. If I wanted to play a cooking game I would I am here to kill HAMSTER, and open chests in the end (and get disappointed ofcourse). All these rich AF fellows they have abused the economy and the system six ways from Sunday on every given day. They make high end gear and sell it for large amounts of profit. They abuse any other way to get guildmarks so they make more items make more AD and then use the AD to buy keys. Open 1000s of keys per day sell the contents and rinse and repeat. In the process of making AD they flood the market with drops and thats why the economy is like it is now and we get all these changes to RAD the past 2 mods.

    On top of all of that those people they will complain about the new profession system etc. Crying about the AD they invested in Masterwork and ofcourse REAL money they dropped in for leveling mastercrafting. The last time they dropped real money in the game was years ago because with MC they have no need for more Zen or AD.

    So go ahead nerf the hell out of the income commited players who like to run content the proper way. Let other thrive on your mistakes and hand everything we have worked our butts of to grind or farm to new players that have to play the game now for 2 days to get the gear we did "bleed" for.

    Do you actually have any idea what goes into even being able to craft masterwork gear? It is the most ridiculous time investment you can make in this game other than trying to get the god damn chult ring achievement. The maximum chance you have of crafting ANYTHING masterwork is 75%. When the items take 5 or 6 resources that can cost 200k AD a piece there better damn well be some profit potential. Don't act like you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't.
    Exactly. And Add to that - Really @dragonlord you can blame Mastercrafters for many things but not for a state of economy - why? Becouse MC is not some illegal form of earning money - it exists in this game for a long time, and any1 can try it. In many cases you see one seller but there is few other players behind him to support his work. And putting aside a costs to become a MC updates for mastercrafting are so rare that most of items you craft becomes obsolete with following mod. I think I wont be wrong if I say that rings and potions are currently only items worth buying from all mastercrafted items range. And keys - never opened more then 300 - never got legendary mount. Actually there is a way to make profit on keys - its enaugh not to buy those :D. Yup - all you need is VIP key - it should bring you enaugh of money to buy next VIP month, and with some luck will leave some extra AD for you, well unless you wont open those boxes with adventurer packs :D.

    TBH @dragonlord you are correct only in 1 point - yes new players got it all easier - but that "all" is just a few gear pieces and weapon set. If you really belive that that gear and few rank 8 enchants really makes a difference then we seems to play a 2 different games
  • loveofatreeloveofatree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3 Arc User
    Over the 5 years i have been playing this game the ingame economy didn't work as planned. All attempts to remedy this have failed sofar and annoied the player base no end to the extent that i have seen players dissapearing in waves over the years. In my opinion this is caused by a failure to adress basic economy questions. The way I see it, the problem is that there are too many AD in the game. They are unequally distributed. New players cannot get AD fast enough to reach endgame in a reasonable time, and have to work hard to do it; old players like myself have been working hard already to generate a steady income of AD and thus have a decent amount of AD or way more than they need.
    The things you can do with AD as a player are very limited. The main reason to get AD now is to buy refining stones in the bazar and Zen items in AH. Or buy Zen for AD. Drops from lockboxes are Zen items too, since you get the keys for spending Zen first. The influx of Zen into the game is limited to the amount of real life money some ppl are willing to spend, and does not remove AD from the game but only from the player who buys Zen with it. So if you have unlimited AD generation and only a limited influx of Zen, prices in AH will rise. It is called inflation.

    So there are two options to remedy this situation:

    First: limit the influx of AD. This will make it harder for new players to get the AD they need to reach endgame. It will also remove the steady income for old players and HAMSTER them off a second time this year (RAD cap), since they wasted time and resources and real life money on their account.

    Second: Generate decent AD sinks that remove AD from the game.

    So my suggestions are:

    - If you only remove the salvagability from blue equip items, like it used to be, that would reduce the influx enormously without pissing off everyone and hurting new players too much.

    - Put items in the wonderous bazar that everyone needs and you can't get anywhere else in the game. Like Refining stones or wards. That way you don't have to make them bound to account or char, because you cannot get them for free somewhere else. you also limit speculation margins to what is possible from Bazar discount events. This is my main solution to reduce the amount of AD ingame, since everyone needs refinement items, but there are too many other sources for them around at the moment.

    - Make the progress in the campaigns AD dependent again.

    - Design cool stuff for wonderous bazar events that ppl actually want to buy, like companions, gear, artifacts and skins. These Items should be tradable but only obtainable from the bazar at those certain times and nowhere else or at any other time. This will reward long time players for sticking with the game by raising the prices for those items untill the event comes round again and raise the incentive to actually spend AD during the event.

    - sell some Profession - and Masterwork resources in the bazar. That will only be of use if the stuff you get from professions is reworked, but it seems like that is going to happen already.

    Just my two cents.
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