So in short more attempts for reroll you make there is a lesser chance to actually make any profit.
That would depend on the numbers. Consider UES right now. They go for over 200K on the AH and giving their current drop rate, it would be profitable to reroll. However, as I said, this will increase their supply, drive down the price until a balance point is reached, where it no longer is profitable to pay for a reroll. Of course, if you have reroll tokens, you might just as well use them anyhow.
What I expect to happen in the future is that when a new dungeon appears, with new "desirable " loot appears, everyone will reroll, until the expected average return value has dropped to the point where paying for rerolls is no longer profitable.
Well, I belive its gona be quite contrairly - its a sink - so if that is going to work as intended it needs to sink AD stright away not after a long period of time when UES price will drop significantly - witch is almost impossile with their nature.
Sure any new loot in drop table gona turn up a heat on rerolling - but I belive it will start workin much much sooner.
I belive 10k AD is top of what can be found in a 1 chest - you can have 5 results on the drop - first one regular another 4 for rerols tokens/5kAD each. So if you accept drop a it is - you gain it and 10k AD on top of that - profit. If you gona use 1 rerol profit drops to 5kAD if 2nd its no profit apart of drop of course, but that gona be just seals and refine points. Any more rolls and you have to spend AD to get those. So up to 10k AD. Next cheast is same. In short - in pursuit of a good drop you can not only spent AD you have just earned but also some of your own. And what if average amount of rAD in a chest gona be 5k?
If I am getting my UES in 1 on 10 runs... well I am gona be fine untill run out of tokens, but then? Reroll gona be tempting
OK, I gave this some thought overnight and here are my thoughts:
Many of you are overreacting
We simply do not have enough information yet to determine how this will impact the population in general or even individual players. Despite this, many players are saying things like "...time to look for another game..." - well, maybe it is, maybe not, but we do not know yet. I strongly suspect we will get a look at this tonight - around midnight UTC - if not, then almost certainly a week from now. Until then, those "the sky is falling" predictions just look silly. This is partly because there is one critical piece of information missing - namely how much rAD we will be getting from the various chests. Consider something like a typical ToNG run. At the end (assuming I open both chests) I may get two or three pieces of purple gear, typically giving me 10-15K rAD when salvaged. Now I will get some RP from the gear and a pool of rAD instead. If I end up getting a total of equal worth, I have nothing to complain about. Sure, I may get slightly less rAD, and slightly more RP than before, but I need both, so ... no big deal. If, however, the total reward (rAD+RP) is significantly reduced, then yes, I will be unhappy, and might even end up joining those looking for a new game, but we don't have the information, so no need to get upset yet. (After all. with some new fantasy MMOs on the horizon, this would be a really bad time to HAMSTER off a large part of the player population.)
Impact on AH prices
The reroll tokens are going to have a massive impact on AH prices, as they will significantly increase the supply of certain valuable unbound drops from chests, in particular UES and few artifacts. People completing certain dungeons will re-roll, hoping to get those valuable drops. Some will succeed, which will increase the supply, which in turn will drive the AH prices down. I would not be surprised to see the price of an UES drop down to 100K or so by the end of the year. While this may sound like bad new for those relying on unbound drops for the majority of their income, that's actually not the case - yes, each drop will be worth less, but you will get more valuable drops, so in the long run it should even out. This, however, brings up another subject - we do not have enough worthwhile unbound drops from the dungeons. I would actually love to see almost all non-legendary drops from chests be totally unbound, and legendary drops, like +5 rings should be btA/BoE. (In fact, somewhat unrelated - I would like to get rid of BtC random drops for the most part - make them all BtA - it is silly to have one stack of BtC Peridots and another of BtA peridots)
Impact on VIP
I am wondering about the impact on VIP. The VIP salvage bonus has been turned into a RAD bonus. For most player that change will be insignificant - but it depends how much of your daily income is currently from salvage vs. random queue bonus and other sources. The bonus keys will be swapped out for reroll tokens, which makes me wonder - is there a limit to the number of tokens you can have?
Impact on hunts
Now, here is my big, big worry, @noworries#8859 because the Barovia hunts are probably my favourite content at the moment. Salvage from the hunts is also a part of my rAD income. I have said before that I consider the Chult hunts a design fiasco - excessive grinding and frustration, vulnerability to poachers and a lack of worthwhile rewards. The Barovia hunts solved those issues and added the ability to control the difficulty (and reward) level. Brilliant work. However, with salvaging going away, the hunts will simply not be worth running. The whole point of using the special cards is to get extra drops to salvage for rAD. This is fun, and can be really challenging (use Donjon and a couple of selected other purple cards, and you have a real challenge, and face it...for a team of 17K+ players there is not much in the game that qualifies as a challenge. If you are taking this away, I have a problem. So, the question here is - are you going to do anything to keep the hunts worth doing? The obvious solution would be to award some rAD in the hunt drops to compensate for the loss of salvage potential, but this has not been mentioned - so, yes, this is my big concern right now. If your goal is simply to kill the hunts, then you should just say so.
Sources of rAD
So, where do people get their rAD from?
Weekly quests and overflow rewards. No changes there.
Random queue bonuses. No changes there.
Salvage from Dungeon chests. Replaced with rAD from chests - waiting to see the numbers to determine if this is a nerf or not.
Salvage from random purple drops from bosses. Going away,
Salvage from rings bought with seals. We will now be able to buy rAD directly with seals - again, waiting to see the numbers to determine if this is a nerf or not.
Salvage from items bought with campaign currencies (like Barovian coins). Supposedly, we will now be able to buy rAD directly with some currencies - yet again, waiting to see the numbers to determine if this is a nerf or not.
HEs will award rAD. Now, this is new - but once again, we need the numbers to actually determine how good this is.
Salvage from Barovia hunts. It seems this is going away, and as far as I am concerned, that's a really bad thing - the hunts are some of the best content available right now, because of the control over the difficulty and reward level, but the removal of salvaging will change that dramatically. This needs attention.
TL;DR - this might turn out to be not a big deal, but there are a few potentially serious issues...however, everything depends on what the numbers are.
I'd "Upvote" every word of this.
There is little way of knowing how its going to affect anyone until those numbers come in.
The one thing I will say that IS a factor that will cause problems going forward is the fact that this will again hit people who have bought multiple extra character slots.
Just like the way the rAD cap feels punitive in order to help new and casual players, this will negatively impact people who use multiple alts' invoke pools to help hit their daily 100k cap.
I would like to know what consideration has been given to these players, and what the justification is for making their initial investments in those characters close to worthless?
Is there something in the pipeline to say "sorry, we didn't want to nerf you that bad, have this XX as a token of our understanding"? Is it even in the pipeline to PUT something in the pipeline?
Or are they just casualties of some really bad planning?
I do not think the change to AD coming into the game will be enough for the PC. We need something much bigger. There are two issues that I see.
1. The ratio of AD to Zen is too high on PC with no relief 2. How can NWN make money for the company in addition to selling zen?
For the first point, you can look at items that are bought with zen and make them available for AD at a "target" AD to Zen ratio. For instance, with a target 350 AD to Zen ratio, sell a 10 pack of pres wards for 35000 AD on the bazaar. And a coalescent ward for 350000 AD. If the items purchased most frequently from the zen store were at a target AD to Zen ratio, then the AD to Zen ratio would be pulled towards that target.
For the second point, developers can create smaller transactions available all the time for real currency. For instance, make 3 months of VIP available for $19.95 USD. Create an enchantment upgrade kit for $19.95 USD that includes p wards, GMoPs/SMoPs. Sell rank 8 enchantmens, $19.95 USD to mix or match 5 basic enchants/runes or 4 advanced enchants. There are lots of possibilities for small transactions.
Make it easier for new players to learn important basics like...the lair quests in Dread Ring is where you can obtain free GMoPs, SMoPs and corresponding enchanting stones. And how to easily get RP through the use of enchants and insignia bonuses like Quartermasters. And that leveling enchants up to level 7, you should not use any wards as the enchanting stones and MoPs are much cheaper than the pres wards at this level.
With a large MMO, you could also sell statistical data to companies/governments for research. You may be able to get a research grant to test specific scenarios. For instance, create a new skirmish to test specific scenarios for local law enforcement/first responders. The player base does not have to know they are test subjects. =p
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mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
I am always more concerned with the gameplay than any changes in economy. I hope the game doesn't turn into one big HE farm fest. They have taken the place of great queable skirmishes and dungeons that could have been created.
I don't care to read 6 pages of content. I completely stopped running dungeons in MOD14 because the returns are HAMSTER and also because of the fact that I DON'T WANT TO RUN FBI/MVSA/MSPC/CN/CDG/T9G/CR with peeps I don't know (and players with IL that's too low, so we just fail...).
I had found another legit way to make RAD, and you're taking this out too. I don't just play because of the AD, but it's how I am able to get ZEN. Now, you're taking this away as well. I still have over 800 days of VIP, and when MOD15 comes, you can shove them where the sun don't shine if you go forward with your proposed changes. Some friends tell me I should play another game, maybe it's time I listen to them.
So, I've been reading this thread and noticed majority of the player base can't read, let alone comment with any valid points for the overall playing experience.
1. This change will remove Salvage and add RAD directly to the chest (depending on amount it will be good or bad, but I'm guessing it will not change much for the average player). This will impact farmers of salvage to use on alts with invoke bonuses, but you had to run the dungeon in the first place anyway, so nothing will change, in regards to your play time (more or less), they will only lose the bonus AD from invoking. New players don't have "systems" in place for this and we want more new players.
2. Someone mentioned RP is useless because they have 7mil of it. If you have 7 mil RP, that means you're BiS and have been playing forever, nobody cares about you. This is aimed at new players, who have nothing and want to get something. If you need millions of RP to upgrade your stuff, you want more in chests. (yes, people on your level are ditching new players for "meta" groups and hinder their progress)
3. Overall this should not change much of the game play, Epic Dungeon Chests will be free and we will be able to "re-open" the chest 4 more times, if we don't like the rewards. This will make it a bit easier to farm desired loot (1 run for 5 chests instead of 5 runs) and will flood the market with these items eventually, driving prices on AH down. This will also mean players will have more AD, since they will be spending less (part drops, part lower prices on AH). This means that overall AD from chests will be lower, IF you re-roll rewards a lot.
4. Lastly, there's this confusion, everyone complains there's too much AD in the game, yet most people complain they can't earn enough. Which one is it then? I never had any problems with AD, playing 2 hours a day maybe with only 1 toon (or 2 at times). People made armies of alts and cry now, because they are useless.
Depending on the amount of AD in chests, this might be a really good idea in general
Currently the Barovian hunts do not give rad directly (they do give campaign currency which can turn into rad). I will look into that next week and see about adding some based on the cards used.
I also wanted to clear up players saying seals will be useless with this change. There is RAD that can be bought with seals with this change.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So, after some thought, I have decided I am leaning towards liking this change. However, I think it does not go far enough. Personally, I would remove dungeon chests entirely and go back to the need/greed/pass system which existed in the base game, when salvaging did not exist and drops in dungeons had value. I would rather all dungeon drops were unbound, guaranteed on every run, had value and the content was hard, then we grind for a pittance of AD in every run.
Over the 5 years i have been playing this game the ingame economy didn't work as planned. All attempts to remedy this have failed sofar and annoied the player base no end to the extent that i have seen players dissapearing in waves over the years. In my opinion this is caused by a failure to adress basic economy questions. The way I see it, the problem is that there are too many AD in the game. They are unequally distributed. New players cannot get AD fast enough to reach endgame in a reasonable time, and have to work hard to do it; old players like myself have been working hard already to generate a steady income of AD and thus have a decent amount of AD or way more than they need. The things you can do with AD as a player are very limited. The main reason to get AD now is to buy refining stones in the bazar and Zen items in AH. Or buy Zen for AD. Drops from lockboxes are Zen items too, since you get the keys for spending Zen first. The influx of Zen into the game is limited to the amount of real life money some ppl are willing to spend, and does not remove AD from the game but only from the player who buys Zen with it. So if you have unlimited AD generation and only a limited influx of Zen, prices in AH will rise. It is called inflation.
So there are two options to remedy this situation:
First: limit the influx of AD. This will make it harder for new players to get the AD they need to reach endgame. It will also remove the steady income for old players and HAMSTER them off a second time this year (RAD cap), since they wasted time and resources and real life money on their account.
Second: Generate decent AD sinks that remove AD from the game.
So my suggestions are:
- If you only remove the salvagability from blue equip items, like it used to be, that would reduce the influx enormously without pissing off everyone and hurting new players too much.
- Put items in the wonderous bazar that everyone needs and you can't get anywhere else in the game. Like Refining stones or wards. That way you don't have to make them bound to account or char, because you cannot get them for free somewhere else. you also limit speculation margins to what is possible from Bazar discount events. This is my main solution to reduce the amount of AD ingame, since everyone needs refinement items, but there are too many other sources for them around at the moment.
- Make the progress in the campaigns AD dependent again.
- Design cool stuff for wonderous bazar events that ppl actually want to buy, like companions, gear, artifacts and skins. These Items should be tradable but only obtainable from the bazar at those certain times and nowhere else or at any other time. This will reward long time players for sticking with the game by raising the prices for those items untill the event comes round again and raise the incentive to actually spend AD during the event.
- sell some Profession - and Masterwork resources in the bazar. That will only be of use if the stuff you get from professions is reworked, but it seems like that is going to happen already.
Just my two cents.
The devs have tried to add AD sinks,the problem is it would only benefit the few that are sitting on millions of AD. Alphonse Knox anyone....
One quick solution is combined AD across the account between the characters and shared bank. Than lower the max amount of AD from 100M to 10M.
I would also not communicate this change and the day it gets released, you communicate what you did, you know after the servers are being refreshed and the game patch is being downloaded by the player base.
Now the excessive amount of AD that is out there would drop in a heart beat. And it would make the exchange rate of AD to Zen go in Cryptic favors.
As for players leaving due to this, it should be expected. The players that stay are the ones that really like the game and want it to get better and understand that this type of change was needed to balance out the zen exchange, improve the AH economy and level out the playing field for AD in the game.
The developers messed up 5 years ago when they based the Auction House on AD and not the Gold standard (as they did on their 2 prior games) as that system still works. The error, in my opinion is not able to be "fixed" by any means. Currently in STO (Star Trek Online) I can purchase Zen there for 1 for 273 as you can you see in this screen shot of the ZAX. It is hard to believe Neverwinter is developed under the same roof as Star Trek and Champions.
These next screens show the AH (Exchange) where Gold is called Energy Credits. As you can see here I am able to afford ship components but lock box keys sell for much more EC than I own.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most of you know, I don't play for AD or Gold. None of this will effect me, they could rip the ZAX out today and it would not mean a thing to me. You should be playing the game, instead you are just farming. You should be having fun and looking forward to new content, instead you are in Protector's Enclave having toxic conversations. I am hoping that most of you will enjoy this new content in Mod 15. Remember games are meant to be played, enjoyed, and conversations fun. If you are getting bent about RAD and BAD (bonus AD) then you are working the game and not playing it.
Although the details are not out I feel as though I can only look forward to disappointing news. We clearly have a big missing piece of information, which has been mentioned to be absent here, and that's how much RAD are we earning in any given scenario.
If it's not a reduction to what players can earn, if it is comparable to how we currently make RAD, why not just give us the numbers...how much do the chests reward? There has been plenty of opportunity to list how much a T1, T2, T3 etc can reward...plenty of opportunity to say how much RAD seals will be worth.
Why the silence on this piece of information?
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Currently the Barovian hunts do not give rad directly (they do give campaign currency which can turn into rad). I will look into that next week and see about adding some based on the cards used.
Thank you. As I said in my (rather lengthy) post, this was my biggest worry. Now it's all down to the numbers. Specifically:
How much rAD will we be getting from the final chests of the various dungeons?
How much rAD will we be getting from the various tiers of HEs?
How many RPs will we get when we convert the various purple items?
What is the Seal -> rAD conversion rate?
What is the Barovian Coin -> rAD conversion rate?
Maybe I am being cynical here, but I suspect that in the initial build of Mod 15 we will get a look at, some of those numbers will be set unacceptably low, and then after a bit of whining and complaining, those numbers will be raised to be just "rather low" and players will walk away happy, feeling they won.
Hoping for improvements...
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most of you know, I don't play for AD or Gold. None of this will effect me, they could rip the ZAX out today and it would not mean a thing to me. You should be playing the game, instead you are just farming. You should be having fun and looking forward to new content, instead you are in Protector's Enclave having toxic conversations. I am hoping that most of you will enjoy this new content in Mod 15. Remember games are meant to be played, enjoyed, and conversations fun. If you are getting bent about RAD and BAD (bonus AD) then you are working the game and not playing it.
Best Wishes </p>
@sandukutupu it is not your place to lecture players on how they spend their time if they spend it differently to you. Just because you enjoy playing it differently, does not make your way "better" or "right." I do not go around telling people who role play in neverwinter they are playing the game wrong, or that their way of having fun is wrong and they should play like me, so maybe, think for a moment and realize that other people enjoy playing the game differently to you.
This is irrespective of the topic, of which I am somewhat neutral on as it doesn't really effect me.
Currently the Barovian hunts do not give rad directly (they do give campaign currency which can turn into rad). I will look into that next week and see about adding some based on the cards used.
I also wanted to clear up players saying seals will be useless with this change. There is RAD that can be bought with seals with this change.
One of the most appreciated aspect of the Barovian Hunts is the fact that you can use Epic and Blue Cards to adjust difficulty AND be rewarded (each player of the team) by Salvaging Gear.
If Gear is not Salvageable anymore, why should we run Barovia Hunts, or use Tarroka Cards, one of the most liked feature of this mod ? Few Barovian coins, few omens (converted then in Barovian coins once Campaign is ended), few seals and Gear that we can't salvage or sell (since epic are bound), is not enough rewarding.
You will kill the interest of the current mod, and replace it with what ? A low level campaign, a profession rework and a Skirmish.
And you think we will run this content until March and spend money for it ?
You need to adjust your communication (Hello useless conqueror shards whitout warnings) AND rewards to give us reasons for spending money.
The savage nerf you are planning is going to hurt the most the people who are spending ZEN and often real money to buy and mantain VIP. Sadly, I'm one of them, and I feel a deep disappointment for this.
You need to find ways for players to be incentivated into spending real money in your game, by adding new interesting features, products or other bonus for VIP players in the ZEN market and not swapping AD gain from people who actually enjoy playing the game and to receive sad, sad, sad rewards.
What should I do with hundreds of keys given by VIP or legendary keys bought via ZEN? Do you think a REROLL TOKEN for the oh-so-slight possibility to drop something is enough?
I understand the ZEN queue problem, but try fix it by NOT hurting the players who are ACTUALLY investing in your game. I'm baffled by the incohesive marketing ideas that are behind it and your incapability to find ways to secure customer loyalty in the long term. It's now common to see every 2 mods a nerf in AD gaining.
I do most of my AD farming by going into dungeons and savage taking full advantage of my VIP bonus. I never do Barovia hunts to salvage, as I find it more entertaining running dungeons. Quite frankly, it's not hurting my progress in the game only, but also dimming my enthusiasm into doing dungeons.
If you are really keen to keep this predictament, do so, but find ways to reward also players (eg giving an average of AD into the chests that people would gain by dropping pieces of equipment during the run).
These changes to "balance the economy" are patently hollow, everyone knows that the bulk of AD is generated in the AH not from salvage.
An AH purchase generates (creates) NO AD. Zero. None. It simply moves AD from one player to another, and *removes* a portion of that AD (AH fees). Salvage, on the other hand, takes an item, and turns it into rAD. That rAD didn't exist before, then *poof*, rAD (then refined to regular AD). And most players are able to create - from nothing - 100k AD each and every day.
So you end up with a system where there is constant inflow of currency, with minimal currency going out. Result - inflation (seen as the backlog on the ZAX, and AH prices).
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
So in short more attempts for reroll you make there is a lesser chance to actually make any profit.
That would depend on the numbers. Consider UES right now. They go for over 200K on the AH and giving their current drop rate, it would be profitable to reroll. However, as I said, this will increase their supply, drive down the price until a balance point is reached, where it no longer is profitable to pay for a reroll. Of course, if you have reroll tokens, you might just as well use them anyhow.
What I expect to happen in the future is that when a new dungeon appears, with new "desirable " loot appears, everyone will reroll, until the expected average return value has dropped to the point where paying for rerolls is no longer profitable.
well I am gona be fine untill run out of tokens, but then? Reroll gona be tempting
And then, you'll get more from VIP.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
I really don't understand what people's problem is with the loot reroll tokens. How is that any worse than the epic dungeon chest keys you're getting now? You're still getting a chest (with possibility of a better roll) for every reroll token.
wow 6 pages on this topic...... an to think i strted keep on this topic on page one lol... i agree with some..... on alot of the topics they voiced in thier posts...... ive asked questions one of which was answered one which wasnt..... my biggest convern now that question one ewas answered is what will be the rad rewards we get from chest/he's etc...... an as has been mentioned.... the silence on this matter tells me its gunna be a bigger hit then most think..... ya salvage is goin away but being added to chests /he's/etc etc (prob significantly lesser values)..... but the bright side..... theres still seasl an they hav said rad purchases in seal trader...... HELLO SHORES RERUNS GOODBYE TO ALL THE OTHER DUNGEONS CEPT THE CURRENT MOD DUNGEON.... mod 15 aint evn out yet an already seein a way to "salvage"
What should I do with hundreds of keys given by VIP or legendary keys bought via ZEN? Do you think a REROLL TOKEN for the oh-so-slight possibility to drop something is enough?
Actually, yes.
Look at it this way:
Nothing changes regarding the legendary keys or the campaign-specific keys.
As for the VIP keys, you do not need them any more, so you can open even more chests than before.
However, the reroll tokens should on average give you better drops than before, so overall you will be better off.
Now, whether it will be worth it to spend 5000 AD instead of using a reroll token you got from VIP, now, that's a very different question, but that's not what you were asking about anyhow.
Hoping for improvements...
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
my biggest convern now that question one ewas answered is what will be the rad rewards we get from chest/he's etc...... an as has been mentioned.... the silence on this matter tells me its gunna be a bigger hit then most think.....
The silence on the matter was because the devs needed sleep at night. But yeah, we'll see the effect soon enough.
my biggest convern now that question one ewas answered is what will be the rad rewards we get from chest/he's etc...... an as has been mentioned.... the silence on this matter tells me its gunna be a bigger hit then most think.....
The silence on the matter was because the devs needed sleep at night. But yeah, we'll see the effect soon enough.
lol yup we'll see it soon enough lol yup thats for sure
I really don't understand what people's problem is with the loot reroll tokens. How is that any worse than the epic dungeon chest keys you're getting now? You're still getting a chest (with possibility of a better roll) for every reroll token.
More particularly: A reroll saves you the time of running the dungeon again to get more loot because the first set was disappointing.
> @krysnyte said: > Let me start with saying that I know that I'm part of an impressively small portion of the player base, maybe I'm the only one in my position. As such I fully understand that this change was not meant to effect me as bad as it will. It was meant to help the over all economy of the game and it probably will in the end. Let me start with some info about my account and then how my day is usually laid out. > > I have 13 characters and my main is a 14.2 k Templock. So I'm not end game but was working to get there. > > 1. I come home from work and do my first round of invoking. > > 2. I start resetting my professions on all my characters. I have all 9 slots open on all 13 characters. 6 of my characters have all maxed professions. 2 are working on the last 1. And the other 5 are about halfway through theirs. > > 3. About halfway through I have to stop and do my second invoke cycle. > > 4. I finish resetting my professions and repost any AH items. > > 5. I also check the AH for items that I'm interested in. > > 6. I do my third invoke cycle. > > 7. I log off to make myself something to eat. > > 8. I log back on to get my fourth invoke. > > 9. I log off and go to bed. > > 10. I get up and log on to get my fifth invoke cycle done before going to work. > > On a good day, maybe once or twice a week, I'm able to get back on and run Stronghold stuff for Influence. And maybe once I'm able to play longer. > > So as you can see I have very little time to play the game. As such the majority of my AD comes from Invoking. Before Mod 14 I made around 71,000 AD a day. After Mod 14 I make around 53,000 AD. With Mod 15 that will drop to around 20,000 AD a day, maybe. I say maybe because that is from Professions and I have no idea what the Professions rework will do to that. I've been doing this for the time being so that I could still improve as best as I can until my schedule can change to give me more time. > > Without being able to buy salvage and salvaging it to gain the invoking bonus AD I will no longer be able to improve at all. > > This change will make the game untenable with my real life. As I said in the beginning I realize I may be the only person in this type situation. > > Now the stated goal is to improve the whole player base so here is my suggestion. > > Make the invoking Bonus RAD simply RAD again. Before the cap this would not work but with the cap it really well only effect players in my situation. You would have to have 26 characters to hit the 100k daily cap from just invoking and for anyone who has time to play, and on the rare days that I'm able to, it wouldn't matter because they would hit the cap anyway without this. > > Where did you make the AD from if all you were doing was invoking and not playing?
I buy salvage rings from the AH and only salvage them for the invoking bonus AD. It is the best that I can do until real life slows back down.
Currently the Barovian hunts do not give rad directly (they do give campaign currency which can turn into rad). I will look into that next week and see about adding some based on the cards used.
I also wanted to clear up players saying seals will be useless with this change. There is RAD that can be bought with seals with this change.
What about RAD drops from bosses instead of gear? To be frank, there's no gear Malabog or Valindra or Cthylar or Withers drops that I will ever use, but seeing a gear drop from them still makes me happy because that's 3-10k AD (depending on prayer bonus and rarity and type) as a bonus from a boss.
With this change, that 4400 AD Alliance Ward Ring or 9900 AD Ancient Grand Knight's Longsword is what, 100RP? 50 for the ring?
Can those bosses be changed to drop RAD instead of/in addition to the now-unsalvagable salvage gear?
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
People seem to lose site of the fact that it's a game. It's meant to be fun. It's not supposed to be work. If it's feeling like work for you, you should probably reassess your priorities. If it feels like work, and it's still fun, then great. If you are not having fun, by all means, take a break, walk away. It will always be there when you decide to come back.
While I'm on the fence about some of these changes til I see them on preview, from the mod 15 trailer, I think it looks like it's going to be a whole lot of FUN! Which should attract plenty of new players too.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Why are people even complaining about gear being turned about RP? That's just a side effect. What needs to be observed is the RAD given by chests because this is what is replacing the gear, not the RP you get from the gear.
Probably because most players get too much RP as it is, and now that they have gotten their arti's to legendary, they mainly sell the RP for AD on the AH. Free RP from the chests cuts into their profits /.
Comments
Sure any new loot in drop table gona turn up a heat on rerolling - but I belive it will start workin much much sooner.
I belive 10k AD is top of what can be found in a 1 chest - you can have 5 results on the drop - first one regular another 4 for rerols tokens/5kAD each. So if you accept drop a it is - you gain it and 10k AD on top of that - profit. If you gona use 1 rerol profit drops to 5kAD if 2nd its no profit apart of drop of course, but that gona be just seals and refine points. Any more rolls and you have to spend AD to get those. So up to 10k AD. Next cheast is same. In short - in pursuit of a good drop you can not only spent AD you have just earned but also some of your own. And what if average amount of rAD in a chest gona be 5k?
If I am getting my UES in 1 on 10 runs... well I am gona be fine untill run out of tokens, but then? Reroll gona be tempting
There is little way of knowing how its going to affect anyone until those numbers come in.
The one thing I will say that IS a factor that will cause problems going forward is the fact that this will again hit people who have bought multiple extra character slots.
Just like the way the rAD cap feels punitive in order to help new and casual players, this will negatively impact people who use multiple alts' invoke pools to help hit their daily 100k cap.
I would like to know what consideration has been given to these players, and what the justification is for making their initial investments in those characters close to worthless?
Is there something in the pipeline to say "sorry, we didn't want to nerf you that bad, have this XX as a token of our understanding"?
Is it even in the pipeline to PUT something in the pipeline?
Or are they just casualties of some really bad planning?
1. The ratio of AD to Zen is too high on PC with no relief
2. How can NWN make money for the company in addition to selling zen?
For the first point, you can look at items that are bought with zen and make them available for AD at a "target" AD to Zen ratio. For instance, with a target 350 AD to Zen ratio, sell a 10 pack of pres wards for 35000 AD on the bazaar. And a coalescent ward for 350000 AD. If the items purchased most frequently from the zen store were at a target AD to Zen ratio, then the AD to Zen ratio would be pulled towards that target.
For the second point, developers can create smaller transactions available all the time for real currency. For instance, make 3 months of VIP available for $19.95 USD. Create an enchantment upgrade kit for $19.95 USD that includes p wards, GMoPs/SMoPs. Sell rank 8 enchantmens, $19.95 USD to mix or match 5 basic enchants/runes or 4 advanced enchants. There are lots of possibilities for small transactions.
Make it easier for new players to learn important basics like...the lair quests in Dread Ring is where you can obtain free GMoPs, SMoPs and corresponding enchanting stones. And how to easily get RP through the use of enchants and insignia bonuses like Quartermasters. And that leveling enchants up to level 7, you should not use any wards as the enchanting stones and MoPs are much cheaper than the pres wards at this level.
With a large MMO, you could also sell statistical data to companies/governments for research. You may be able to get a research grant to test specific scenarios. For instance, create a new skirmish to test specific scenarios for local law enforcement/first responders. The player base does not have to know they are test subjects. =p
I completely stopped running dungeons in MOD14 because the returns are HAMSTER and also because of the fact that I DON'T WANT TO RUN FBI/MVSA/MSPC/CN/CDG/T9G/CR with peeps I don't know (and players with IL that's too low, so we just fail...).
I had found another legit way to make RAD, and you're taking this out too. I don't just play because of the AD, but it's how I am able to get ZEN. Now, you're taking this away as well. I still have over 800 days of VIP, and when MOD15 comes, you can shove them where the sun don't shine if you go forward with your proposed changes. Some friends tell me I should play another game, maybe it's time I listen to them.
1. This change will remove Salvage and add RAD directly to the chest (depending on amount it will be good or bad, but I'm guessing it will not change much for the average player). This will impact farmers of salvage to use on alts with invoke bonuses, but you had to run the dungeon in the first place anyway, so nothing will change, in regards to your play time (more or less), they will only lose the bonus AD from invoking. New players don't have "systems" in place for this and we want more new players.
2. Someone mentioned RP is useless because they have 7mil of it. If you have 7 mil RP, that means you're BiS and have been playing forever, nobody cares about you. This is aimed at new players, who have nothing and want to get something. If you need millions of RP to upgrade your stuff, you want more in chests. (yes, people on your level are ditching new players for "meta" groups and hinder their progress)
3. Overall this should not change much of the game play, Epic Dungeon Chests will be free and we will be able to "re-open" the chest 4 more times, if we don't like the rewards. This will make it a bit easier to farm desired loot (1 run for 5 chests instead of 5 runs) and will flood the market with these items eventually, driving prices on AH down. This will also mean players will have more AD, since they will be spending less (part drops, part lower prices on AH). This means that overall AD from chests will be lower, IF you re-roll rewards a lot.
4. Lastly, there's this confusion, everyone complains there's too much AD in the game, yet most people complain they can't earn enough. Which one is it then? I never had any problems with AD, playing 2 hours a day maybe with only 1 toon (or 2 at times). People made armies of alts and cry now, because they are useless.
Depending on the amount of AD in chests, this might be a really good idea in general
I also wanted to clear up players saying seals will be useless with this change. There is RAD that can be bought with seals with this change.
One quick solution is combined AD across the account between the characters and shared bank. Than lower the max amount of AD from 100M to 10M.
I would also not communicate this change and the day it gets released, you communicate what you did, you know after the servers are being refreshed and the game patch is being downloaded by the player base.
Now the excessive amount of AD that is out there would drop in a heart beat. And it would make the exchange rate of AD to Zen go in Cryptic favors.
As for players leaving due to this, it should be expected. The players that stay are the ones that really like the game and want it to get better and understand that this type of change was needed to balance out the zen exchange, improve the AH economy and level out the playing field for AD in the game.
These next screens show the AH (Exchange) where Gold is called Energy Credits. As you can see here I am able to afford ship components but lock box keys sell for much more EC than I own.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most of you know, I don't play for AD or Gold. None of this will effect me, they could rip the ZAX out today and it would not mean a thing to me. You should be playing the game, instead you are just farming. You should be having fun and looking forward to new content, instead you are in Protector's Enclave having toxic conversations. I am hoping that most of you will enjoy this new content in Mod 15. Remember games are meant to be played, enjoyed, and conversations fun. If you are getting bent about RAD and BAD (bonus AD) then you are working the game and not playing it.
Best Wishes
If it's not a reduction to what players can earn, if it is comparable to how we currently make RAD, why not just give us the numbers...how much do the chests reward? There has been plenty of opportunity to list how much a T1, T2, T3 etc can reward...plenty of opportunity to say how much RAD seals will be worth.
Why the silence on this piece of information?
- How much rAD will we be getting from the final chests of the various dungeons?
- How much rAD will we be getting from the various tiers of HEs?
- How many RPs will we get when we convert the various purple items?
- What is the Seal -> rAD conversion rate?
- What is the Barovian Coin -> rAD conversion rate?
Maybe I am being cynical here, but I suspect that in the initial build of Mod 15 we will get a look at, some of those numbers will be set unacceptably low, and then after a bit of whining and complaining, those numbers will be raised to be just "rather low" and players will walk away happy, feeling they won.This is irrespective of the topic, of which I am somewhat neutral on as it doesn't really effect me.
If Gear is not Salvageable anymore, why should we run Barovia Hunts, or use Tarroka Cards, one of the most liked feature of this mod ? Few Barovian coins, few omens (converted then in Barovian coins once Campaign is ended), few seals and Gear that we can't salvage or sell (since epic are bound), is not enough rewarding.
You will kill the interest of the current mod, and replace it with what ? A low level campaign, a profession rework and a Skirmish.
And you think we will run this content until March and spend money for it ?
You need to adjust your communication (Hello useless conqueror shards whitout warnings) AND rewards to give us reasons for spending money.
You need to find ways for players to be incentivated into spending real money in your game, by adding new interesting features, products or other bonus for VIP players in the ZEN market and not swapping AD gain from people who actually enjoy playing the game and to receive sad, sad, sad rewards.
What should I do with hundreds of keys given by VIP or legendary keys bought via ZEN? Do you think a REROLL TOKEN for the oh-so-slight possibility to drop something is enough?
I understand the ZEN queue problem, but try fix it by NOT hurting the players who are ACTUALLY investing in your game. I'm baffled by the incohesive marketing ideas that are behind it and your incapability to find ways to secure customer loyalty in the long term. It's now common to see every 2 mods a nerf in AD gaining.
I do most of my AD farming by going into dungeons and savage taking full advantage of my VIP bonus. I never do Barovia hunts to salvage, as I find it more entertaining running dungeons. Quite frankly, it's not hurting my progress in the game only, but also dimming my enthusiasm into doing dungeons.
If you are really keen to keep this predictament, do so, but find ways to reward also players (eg giving an average of AD into the chests that people would gain by dropping pieces of equipment during the run).
So you end up with a system where there is constant inflow of currency, with minimal currency going out. Result - inflation (seen as the backlog on the ZAX, and AH prices).
i agree with some..... on alot of the topics they voiced in thier posts......
ive asked questions one of which was answered one which wasnt.....
my biggest convern now that question one ewas answered is what will be the rad rewards we get from chest/he's etc......
an as has been mentioned.... the silence on this matter tells me its gunna be a bigger hit then most think.....
ya salvage is goin away but being added to chests /he's/etc etc (prob significantly lesser values)..... but the bright side..... theres still seasl an they hav said rad purchases in seal trader...... HELLO SHORES RERUNS GOODBYE TO ALL THE OTHER DUNGEONS CEPT THE CURRENT MOD DUNGEON.... mod 15 aint evn out yet an already seein a way to "salvage"
Look at it this way:
Nothing changes regarding the legendary keys or the campaign-specific keys.
As for the VIP keys, you do not need them any more, so you can open even more chests than before.
However, the reroll tokens should on average give you better drops than before, so overall you will be better off.
Now, whether it will be worth it to spend 5000 AD instead of using a reroll token you got from VIP, now, that's a very different question, but that's not what you were asking about anyhow.
> Let me start with saying that I know that I'm part of an impressively small portion of the player base, maybe I'm the only one in my position. As such I fully understand that this change was not meant to effect me as bad as it will. It was meant to help the over all economy of the game and it probably will in the end. Let me start with some info about my account and then how my day is usually laid out.
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> I have 13 characters and my main is a 14.2 k Templock. So I'm not end game but was working to get there.
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> 1. I come home from work and do my first round of invoking.
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> 2. I start resetting my professions on all my characters. I have all 9 slots open on all 13 characters. 6 of my characters have all maxed professions. 2 are working on the last 1. And the other 5 are about halfway through theirs.
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> 3. About halfway through I have to stop and do my second invoke cycle.
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> 4. I finish resetting my professions and repost any AH items.
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> 5. I also check the AH for items that I'm interested in.
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> 6. I do my third invoke cycle.
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> 7. I log off to make myself something to eat.
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> 8. I log back on to get my fourth invoke.
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> 9. I log off and go to bed.
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> 10. I get up and log on to get my fifth invoke cycle done before going to work.
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> On a good day, maybe once or twice a week, I'm able to get back on and run Stronghold stuff for Influence. And maybe once I'm able to play longer.
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> So as you can see I have very little time to play the game. As such the majority of my AD comes from Invoking. Before Mod 14 I made around 71,000 AD a day. After Mod 14 I make around 53,000 AD. With Mod 15 that will drop to around 20,000 AD a day, maybe. I say maybe because that is from Professions and I have no idea what the Professions rework will do to that. I've been doing this for the time being so that I could still improve as best as I can until my schedule can change to give me more time.
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> Without being able to buy salvage and salvaging it to gain the invoking bonus AD I will no longer be able to improve at all.
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> This change will make the game untenable with my real life. As I said in the beginning I realize I may be the only person in this type situation.
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> Now the stated goal is to improve the whole player base so here is my suggestion.
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> Make the invoking Bonus RAD simply RAD again. Before the cap this would not work but with the cap it really well only effect players in my situation. You would have to have 26 characters to hit the 100k daily cap from just invoking and for anyone who has time to play, and on the rare days that I'm able to, it wouldn't matter because they would hit the cap anyway without this.
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> Where did you make the AD from if all you were doing was invoking and not playing?
I buy salvage rings from the AH and only salvage them for the invoking bonus AD. It is the best that I can do until real life slows back down.
With this change, that 4400 AD Alliance Ward Ring or 9900 AD Ancient Grand Knight's Longsword is what, 100RP? 50 for the ring?
Can those bosses be changed to drop RAD instead of/in addition to the now-unsalvagable salvage gear?
While I'm on the fence about some of these changes til I see them on preview, from the mod 15 trailer, I think it looks like it's going to be a whole lot of FUN! Which should attract plenty of new players too.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!