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  • hugienwnhugienwn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    I mostly like these changes, and here is why:

    1) It rewards playing the game (AD for completing activities). The more you play, the more AD you make. This is the way the game has been trending for awhile, and I think it's fair & makes sense, though it's a bummer for people who are short on playtime. That's what you get for having real lives! B)

    2) It improves QOL for non-VIP players, especially newcomers, who don't have an endless backlog of epic chests built up & who now can run as many dungeons as they want without worrying about missing out on basic rewards. There are a number of players in my alliance who will love this -- they are clearly struggling to make meaningful RAD in the current system, as they are limited by their daily free key(s).

    3) It arguably makes long-time VIP players' keys *more* valuable, since they convert to re-roll tokens. More re-roll chest tokens = fewer runs to get the rewards you want = good for players, even if the odds of said drops aren't improving.

    ---

    My biggest concern is about the chase rewards. Items like Shard of Orcus' Wand, Fragmented Key of Stars come to mind; these will start to show up more often thanks to loot re-rolls. One could interpret this as a good thing, but this game suffers from a lack of worthwhile chase rewards as-is, since there's only ever 1-2 viable gear sets (unlike in other MMOs, where you can farm for hundreds of gear sets to create more unique builds). And, statistically speaking, the increased incidences of the "good" rewards will benefit the rich (who can afford to re-roll whenever possible), making them richer.

    Overall, I like that it'll introduce a mechanic to let impatient/optimistic players roll & re-roll the dice if they're hunting for a certain reward, since the odds are so low.

    Not sure how I feel about removing salvage. It's a big source of any regular player's RAD, whether from T1 or T3 dungeons. I guess that as long as RAD values are adjusted accordingly, it just means fewer clicks to earn the same RAD.

    Edit: along with these changes, can we expect an increase in the 100k account cap for RADs? Pleeeeease?
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,404 Arc User
    What people are worried about is what is not being said, how much rAD the chests will give. If they give less than 5k rAD then it would be a nerf to what you could have gotten from any dungeon salvage beforehand. I hope they also add rAD to hunts, as the salvage amounts from the barovian coin gear is a significant amount to lose.
  • rodostorodosto Member Posts: 76 Arc User

    so, if now i can run something and get like 10-15K RAD if i find some pieces from bosses, now you want take that off and just give me the chest RAD? are you guys thinking? or you want to ruin the game before closing or something?

    if you want to improve the game in reality, you just remove the keys and that's it, everyone happy, those keys are useless... because every dungeon must have a reward in the end free of costs, or you want to increase the gambling with rerolls now that gambling lootboxes are going to be penalized by some countries and you want to milk us before that?

    for me i stay here i won't put any more money, since i started i just saw things going worse and worse, and you know this affects end players a lot, like the AD daily cap, this will be a dead game if those hardcore players gets pissed and pissed every single mod.

    You're just talking really without a reason.

    The keys had to be removed. That is well known bad thing and they finally removing it.

    The daily AD refining cap was obvious reason that is abused too hard that killed the game economy. This game not run by hardcore players. Face the truth. There is casual players who just wants to play this game properly. Remember how old system killed the economy? The prices raised and raised again. Simply a casual player cannot afford a single usable thing in the AH. Not everyone has time to do dungeons over and over again just to get damned items to salvage. You didnt read the post at all. Now you can get actual RAD from the end chests and heroic encounters... pretty much anything you do now you can get the RAD. You just assumed you always get an item to salvage in every run. You can also now reroll the chests until the thing you needed. That is also helps the RNG alot. Instead doing a dungeon that is too long just to get one chance, now you can have more chances.

    Dunno how players complaining about... its an improve, not a nerf. Know the difference.

    The lootbox chances for different countries is just good for the game. You know why but you trying to imply this is wrong. The amount of keys those people buying with their own money is mostly cheaper than the international currencies. If everyone get the same chance, then people from those countries will get a huge advantage.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    I started thinking this would make sense until you said to make it more easier to equip players and drop more often? Stuff drops enough as it is (Salvagable stuff) so it doesn't make a difference.

    It would make a whole lot of sense if you decided to make armor/ring drops rarer but also sellable (BOE) on auction house to stimulate economy.

    I do hope you guys consider this otherwise it will just feel even less rewarding.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • pherrowpherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 421 Arc User
    rodosto said:

    %90 of the people in this thread ain't reading anything at all...

    Instead of stupid mechanic that is called "salvage", we now can actually get AD from playing the game. That is VERY good. You still get the AD from the dungeon itself. And you DO NOT need any keys at all now. Just named chest keys will remain same.

    I hope you guys gonna read that all again before flaming and bashing things up.

    It's not a nerf, it's basically improve.

    The AD cap helped the economy alot now and that one will help more im sure. With current prices, a new player simply CANNOT get a good stuff unless they are extremely lucky with damned keys. 100k AD will get you 3m AD per month so you need to play for 5 months just to get an orange mount. That is absurd. People needs enchantments, companion stuffs and so on. A complete end game stuff will cost you more than 75m AD. Which is 25 months of playing with one character. It's completely absurd and considering the modules we get often, one simply cannot gear themselves enough to reach true endgame.

    I may be did the math roughly but the reason i was trying to imply is the truth. Neverwinter is not for just high end people that started from the beta.

    How much(RAD) are we gonna get from the dungeon chest? Will it compete with multiple gear drops from bosses throughout a dungeon run?

    Is the RAD cap going to change?

    Seals for Ad, will that be equal to the salvaged gear of old system?

    I read the thread quickly, so I might have missed something? Were there numbers I didn't see?



  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited September 2018

    > @frozenfirevr said:

    > These changes look quite decent actually. Without the ability to salvage, having access to a seal vendor isn't very beneficial (we get RP but still), an alternative might be better.

    >

    > Also, don't forget to change the Adventurer Pack drops.



    Um yes you still need access to a vendor. The profession vendor is going away too so we will have no way to get rid of our junk pick ups with going to a vendor. Very, very bad idea to not have a vendor of some kind available to VIP players

    Where's the profession vendor gonna go? Did I miss something?

    If it were up to me, I'd replace Profession Vendor with Seal Vendor and Salvage Anvil with SH Coffer
    FrozenFire
  • cambo1682cambo1682 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 164 Arc User
    I wish I had the same optimism as a few in this thread who believe that the change will be for the better, I hope it is. The reality is that the majority of these changes over the years have been with the intent to reign in the AD in the economy, and consequently have removed avenues for new folks to progress. For those of us playing one account in good faith, there really was no need to make this change given the 100K cap is already a hardstop to earning rAD from salvage (or whichever means you choose).

    If, as stated, the rewarded rAD is on average equivalent to time spent playing then that's great, but the devs have a very poor track record when it comes to getting that correct. They have historically erred on the side of "let's play it safe" (less AD in the economy) and float some BS about monitoring it. Anyone remember the pledges for 2X AD events? I think we saw about 3 on PC, so yeah the catalyst for that didn't really work out.

    If running Heroic Encounters, dungeons etc rewards rAD, I'm all for it... but it shouldn't be something paltry that requires you invest 20 hours of playtime to hit your daily cap. If I complete a HE and I see something like 50 rAD then that's gonna go over like a lead balloon. The 100K cap is already in place. I think it's safe to say it didn't have the impact they thought, last I checked the ZAX was about 20 days turnaround. We'll see how it goes but I am skeptically hoping they don't cheap out on us again.
  • draconislupusdraconislupus Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    > @frozenfirevr said:
    > > @frozenfirevr said:
    >
    > > These changes look quite decent actually. Without the ability to salvage, having access to a seal vendor isn't very beneficial (we get RP but still), an alternative might be better.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Also, don't forget to change the Adventurer Pack drops.
    >
    >
    >
    > Um yes you still need access to a vendor. The profession vendor is going away too so we will have no way to get rid of our junk pick ups with going to a vendor. Very, very bad idea to not have a vendor of some kind available to VIP players
    >
    > Where's the profession vendor gonna go? Did I miss something?
    >
    > If it were up to me, I'd replace Profession Vendor with Seal Vendor and Salvage Anvil with SH Coffer

    I was my understanding from the Profession Rework Thread that the vendor was going away but I don't think Asterdahl has officially confirmed or denied this yet.
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,404 Arc User
    That still does not help the player that does not like dungeons, as they were getting their rAD from the salvage boxes from Barovia. Yes they can get rAD from the HEs, but it will all depend on how much they give.
  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    as has been mentioned in this thread already..... now that my main question has been answered...... what will the direct rad rewards be for the dungeons?.... like others have asked or voiced concern on... will the rad reward scale with the difficulty of the dungeon (or better put... will the reward be equal to the amount of rad one could have attained from the salvageable gear obttained throughout the dungeon from the booses and chests at end?...)
  • mike31584mike31584 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    ok so lets see if I get this, salvage is going away and all gear will break down to rp? vip is loosing the salvage anvil, the profession vender, and the daily keys? keys are being turned into chest re-roll tokens? and rad will be able to be gained from doing heroics, weekly missions, campaign tasks, seal vender, trade bar store, the stronghold market and from dungeon chests? is that everything? if there changing vip that much can the teleport to moonstone mask be changed to teleport to profession workshop and also add a guild bank to the perks? are they going to add rad back to "leadership" gathering with the profession change? im sure we'll all set it as a repeatable task and it will keep us coming back to empty the profession box every few hrs and having a teleport to the workshop would be very helpful. also if there looking for things to cut from vip why do you have to summon a mail box to claim item from the mail why not just open your mail tab with vip and subtract having to summon the mail box, and have it work in proximity like how others can invoke when standing next to you. it would be way more helpful. and if your looking for other things to fix you can start with the last online feature on xbox it hasn't worked since it was introduced, you could also give us a full buff bar or a way to see all the buffs we have because its kind of hard to test buffs when you cant even see if you have them.
  • jganthjganth Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    I'd rather get paid AD for completing a dungeon than a chance to get some items to convert into AD. Unfortunately I feel that instead of one bad RNG roll for chest contents I now get a chance at 5 bad RNG rolls...'no worries', right? What, me worry?

    You could improve chests value by cutting out absolutely useless/obsolete items and artifacts. In another thread they state that Black Ice Profession is no more, yet archaic items still linger and get slotted as rewards - why the hell would you give a Black Ice Beholder in a Castle Never dungeon chest? The last mod changes made chests worse in so much it's yet an even lower chance to get the Shard of Orcus. It's these details that paint where the priority of these changes are focused on. Look no further than the Lostmauth set disaster.

    Any of these other players who complain to have AD bankroll problems feel free to purchase 1m or so worth of GMOP/SMOPs and mail them over to my account; I can certainly assist with your AD sink issues without hesitation.
  • jganthjganth Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    mike31584 said:

    are they going to add rad back to "leadership" gathering with the profession change?

    No because Leadership profession is getting removed/changed for 'Gathering'.

    They killed that AD gathering task because of how professions were accessible via the Gateway portal outside of the game; essentially a Web API that allowed smart hackers to run scripts to make millions instead of manually clicking.

    Gateway Portal is long gone since then, but the ability to use Leadership to make RAD was never re-implemented. Legitimate players were punished twice for same 'crime'. You couldn't convince this group that it was anything different because nothing was done to change that impression left on veteran players.

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    he has said that the epic gear will salvage to rp. so probably 100 instead of 50. lol. if we're lucky up to blood ruby status. :/
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    rodosto said:

    Neverwinter is not for just high end people that started from the beta.

    That's a key point to remember. In making this change, they're looking at the entirety of the player base.

    This is not the first change made to curtail the AD glut and I doubt it's the last. Decoupling gear from AD allows more precise control over the AD economy. It will take a very long time for the richest players to run out of accumulated wealth as AD sources are reduced but Cryptic can better steer the average player's experience with this change.

    The ability to convert salvage to AD currently favors the player who exhausts the daily random queue awards and continues farming for salvage. It remains to be seen how the new system will shake out, but if it better allows the casual player to fall less far behind the super-dedicated player, that's probably good for the long-term health of the game. I completely understand that some focus their game time on optimizing AD generation and this change will probably hurt that play style. That's certainly not the only reason players spend time in game.

    The change does almost nothing to address the game's wealth inequality. Indeed, that's a thorny issue. While some wealth may have been generated using means the Nashers would approve of, vast fortunes have been earned by those who grasp the game economy in detail and opt to spend time profiting from it that might otherwise have been spent raiding dungeons. There's no simple and universally fair solution, though there have been a few decent efforts like ultra-rare-item auctions (AD sink) and the manner in which the UES was introduced to the game (AD redistribution).

    Then again, the most expensive items aren't neccessary to enjoy the PVE experience. Large AD balances and BIS gear are more bragging rights than necessity in Neverwinter.

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  • undepartedundeparted Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    I’m not going to speak against it until we for sure know the consequences of these changes.

    I was angry and frustrated with the AD cap changes, but was proven wrong, seeing as I make the same but way faster.

    I will say that this screams and stinks of - “ oh no! We have messed up the hunt mechanic and it’s reward system. People are getting salvage too fast”.

    I agree with a previous comment about hiring a person who understands economics. But seeing as this game is of so low priority to Cryptic that they don’t even have room in their budget for a code writer. I fail to see that happen.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Why are people even complaining about gear being turned about RP? That's just a side effect. What needs to be observed is the RAD given by chests because this is what is replacing the gear, not the RP you get from the gear.


    I've never been given any reason to trust cryptic as far as this kind of thing is concerned. generally when this sort of thing is put thru it IS a nerf. yeah, maybe it's not.. but I'd bet my bottom dollar it is. they will account for the one thing that usually drops in the chest not the rest of the salvage that drops in a run.

    rp is focused on because the gear is the one solid in this equation. it is what has value now. it becomes another useless pointless thing in this game with this change. I have a ton of gear I hang on to just in case for alts figuring if and when it becomes obsolete I'll just refine it. I am going to have to finally chuck a bunch of gear I don't want to. my plus five rings from underdark... and gawd how sad it will be when they drop going forward. not even worth 8k.
  • asd98776asd98776 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6 Arc User
    These changes to "balance the economy" are patently hollow, everyone knows that the bulk of AD is generated in the AH not from salvage. And the unchecked abuses in the AH have been going on for way too long. Just look at any in demand commodity items (like Gmop's, Smop's Uey's etc.) consistently the majority of the market supply is controlled by obvious commercial accounts. If you really want to improve the player experience and balance the economy start in the AH. Furthermore, if people were exploiting the hunts then perma ban them. Don't penalize all of the player base for the misdeeds of a few. Another easy thing that could hamper the blatant commercial activity in the AH is make sellers @handle anonymous that might curtail some of the AD purchase transactions from third party sites. I mean come on how many times does someone have to post a potion for a million plus AD for you to figure out its not a legitimate transaction?? Also the RNG on drops in dungeons is so bad its hard to trust or expect that the drop rate will improve enough to offset these horrible changes that only really hurt actual players rather than the commercial accounts.

    Lastly, if your really want to "balance" the economy how about not allowing accounts to "hide" behind a VPN?

    Very disappointed about these proposed changes, I expect more than a few people to leave game, but since your economic model thrives on new player turnover I doubt you will make meaningful beneficial changes that affect established players/accounts.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 526 Arc User
    I am not sure if it was asked and answered yet, but will we still need campaign keys for the special chests (e.g. second chest in CN, second chest in eSoT, ...)? What about chests that are the only reward chest but need a campaign key, like the one on Merchant Prince's Folly skirmish? If the campaign keys are still needed will the respective chests also have a re-roll option?
  • zephyriahzephyriah Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,980 Arc User

    > @frozenfirevr said:

    > These changes look quite decent actually. Without the ability to salvage, having access to a seal vendor isn't very beneficial (we get RP but still), an alternative might be better.

    >

    > Also, don't forget to change the Adventurer Pack drops.



    Um yes you still need access to a vendor. The profession vendor is going away too so we will have no way to get rid of our junk pick ups with going to a vendor. Very, very bad idea to not have a vendor of some kind available to VIP players

    You can sell stuff to the current seal vendors. Nothing indicates that is changing.
  • faredawg1faredawg1 Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    Nothing but disappointment after disappointment, Mod after Mod. I wonder if I'll ever see a Mod I am excited for ever again. A Mod that doesn't feel like a Used Car Salesman's pitch that's really a direct assault on me and my play style. What a waste of code on Professions. How much new Content will there be with all this effort spent on Professions and AD gain nerfs? One Skirmish? Just a waste.
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    I think I'll like these changes as long as, the rad generated from running dungeons averages out to be about the same as currently salvaging gear from those dungeons. I see were some people are concerned due to rad bonus from invoking is concerned, but if you still get that bonus, it just mean you might need to actually run that alt for the bonus. Other than that, the loot re-roll is awesome, cut's grinding for chase items down, every run in the new system will be like running the dungeon 5x if you have the tokens, same as now, if you have the keys.

    Other concerns are that seals will be worthless, they already said you can purchase RAD w/ seals, which is why they're adding a seals vendor to the vip feature instead of a salvage anvil. You can already purchase rad w/ adventurer seals from leveling dungeons.

    So instead of converting gear into rad, you can convert it into rps/gold, awesome, because, hopefully, you'll be getting the rad from the dungeon chest instead.

    Now, if you are like me and have 10 alts and currently use them for bonus rad from invokes and salvage (plus farming other stuff like gm's and shards/inf for the coffer), well, they become a little less valuable unless you actually run them through dungeons, which if you are like me and have 500 keys stocked up on em, might be a good idea to do once the changes hit. That being said, the devs have been moving in the general direction of making the game so that you can get away w/ 1 or 2 toons and still have a good chance of competing in the economy, that's a good thing, I mean, why would you want 50 toons to manage anyways? Spending 2 hours invoking is not playing the game.

  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    rodosto said:

    %90 of the people in this thread ain't reading anything at all...

    Instead of stupid mechanic that is called "salvage", we now can actually get AD from playing the game. That is VERY good. You still get the AD from the dungeon itself. And you DO NOT need any keys at all now. Just named chest keys will remain same.

    I hope you guys gonna read that all again before flaming and bashing things up.

    It's not a nerf, it's basically improve.

    The AD cap helped the economy alot now and that one will help more im sure. With current prices, a new player simply CANNOT get a good stuff unless they are extremely lucky with damned keys. 100k AD will get you 3m AD per month so you need to play for 5 months just to get an orange mount. That is absurd. People needs enchantments, companion stuffs and so on. A complete end game stuff will cost you more than 75m AD. Which is 25 months of playing with one character. It's completely absurd and considering the modules we get often, one simply cannot gear themselves enough to reach true endgame.

    I may be did the math roughly but the reason i was trying to imply is the truth. Neverwinter is not for just high end people that started from the beta.

    this wont do any ad sink to the most high ad pool players, because they plan what they spend ad on, if the game releases 3 more classes the game ad/real money would raise from the player base, forcing them to spend ad to make their chars stronger, seems 700k a week isnt enough for the devs so they want to fk up free to play players they better put 1000 rp on epic rings and go up from that otherwise it will be a failure.
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