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The Gods Must Be Crazy
cap1776
Member Posts: 54 Arc User
Hey all!
I've played on and off since Beta, I love the game. But, as a D&D player and long time Forgotten Realms fan, one thing bothers me, and I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well:
When we create characters, we have a number of deities that we can choose from for our characters, which is great, but once in game there is very little that connects to most of the available deities. This especially matters to D&D fans who play Paladins and Clerics.
However, in game we DO have items available for use by players that come from festivals dedicated to deities that players CANNOT choose to worship. I mean Lathander, Lliira, and Waukeen. As a player. I think it would be more fun for those folks who are D&D players to dress their Cleric or Paladin of Waukeen in golden clothes, with Gilt weapons. Or for a Cleric of Liira to wear her star mask. In the Zen store, a player can buy a Dragonborn Paladin's pack, but that same Dragonborn can't worship Bahamut, the good dragon deity.
In addition , there's the Summer Festival. It;s great that there is some stuff ro Sune, but the goddess of farmers and harvest in the realms would be Chauntea. So why are all of the nature based transmutes all named for Sune?
I love the game. I'm not going anywhere. I hate to aound difficult. It's just that I'm surprised that this / these (admittedly small) issues exist.
So... am I the only one who gets a little bugged about this stuff?
I've played on and off since Beta, I love the game. But, as a D&D player and long time Forgotten Realms fan, one thing bothers me, and I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well:
When we create characters, we have a number of deities that we can choose from for our characters, which is great, but once in game there is very little that connects to most of the available deities. This especially matters to D&D fans who play Paladins and Clerics.
However, in game we DO have items available for use by players that come from festivals dedicated to deities that players CANNOT choose to worship. I mean Lathander, Lliira, and Waukeen. As a player. I think it would be more fun for those folks who are D&D players to dress their Cleric or Paladin of Waukeen in golden clothes, with Gilt weapons. Or for a Cleric of Liira to wear her star mask. In the Zen store, a player can buy a Dragonborn Paladin's pack, but that same Dragonborn can't worship Bahamut, the good dragon deity.
In addition , there's the Summer Festival. It;s great that there is some stuff ro Sune, but the goddess of farmers and harvest in the realms would be Chauntea. So why are all of the nature based transmutes all named for Sune?
I love the game. I'm not going anywhere. I hate to aound difficult. It's just that I'm surprised that this / these (admittedly small) issues exist.
So... am I the only one who gets a little bugged about this stuff?
3
Comments
Kelemvor approves the suffering it causes because it reduces clutter on the flavor page of character creation.
Even if they granted a small mission ONCE a month | 30 days - something similar to PORTAL TO TUERN we could get from Aralynn the Pious in the Celestial area below the the Hall of Justice in PE.
Someone else in another thread wrote it would also be Nice if they *moved* Celestial Coin's to be claimed once per account, in an effort to reduce the mass Celestial Armies claiming vastly so many Ward's... I mean Ardent Coin's, the Astral Diamond bonus, not to mention coupon's would still drop on every character. Yet the thought was if Celestial Coin's were only claimable once per account, then perhaps Coal Wards might drop a tiny bit more, or give a chance for 1,2, 3 or 5 Preservation Ward's based on RNG. It would also SHIFT the focus to allowing each character a chance to do a Bi-Monthly / Monthly mission, then depending on the difficulty of the challenge would determine the possible rewards. I mean it places a more reasonable limit on those who have excessive character's who barely have any gear, boons, artifacts upgraded, who they login for just 1-2 seconds to pray and logout every day.
If they made Celestial coin's claimable once per account; they could then give each character a bi-monthly quest! But at least even a small quest requires a little more effort to complete; and depending on the difficulty of challenge that was overcome it might also increase your chance at a Coal Ward, or possibly give a 2, 3 or 5 Preservation Ward's. Given ward's are the premium reward, it should require a little more time / effort to earn, by completing a mission over 10-15 minutes, not just 1-2 second's to login & pray on Character's, especially those who have extremely low Item Level, Boons, Artifacts and repeating 45-54 more times!
If they made Celestial coin's claimable once per account; the bi-monthly / monthly quest might also award various Celestial Chests - with slightly expanded rewards - depending on the difficulty successfully overcome! Perhaps it's in the path with increasing level's of difficulty until your God ultimately has to resurrect you and offer his Wisdom to you? Depending on the difficulty overcome it might also increase your chance at a Coal Ward, or possibly give a 2, 3 or 5 Preservation Ward's on the rare occasion? Given that ward's are the premium reward, it should require a little more time / effort to earn, by completing a mission over 10-15 minutes, not just 1-2 second's to login / pray then repeating 45-54 times, on Character's you hardly spend time to grow! So why are those with the lowest Item Level, Gear, Artifacts, or Boons earned and upgraded earning most of the Wards for the Main's?
It's kind of sad those who have up to 54 character's can earn 162 Celestial Chests a month for >30-59 preservation ward's and possibly 1-3 Coal Ward's every month. I mean most who have 4-8 Character's they mostly play are lucky to earn maybe 1 preservation ward per Character's each month. As usually you're lucky if you get 1 preservation ward from opening 3 Celestial Chests.
Something like that would be really COOL!
@nitocris83
I wouldn't mind seeing a few more dieties… Had this discussion some time back as well.
Ilmater, for example, is a very popular diety in the realms and gets name-dropped in the game, but is not available to players. Maybe they think that he is too much a "common folk" diety, but to me he makes for a good all-around diety for any character of any class.
Bahamut would be good for Dragonborn and paladins especially, and should have been put in when Dragonborn were introduced.
Also, I would like to make the background stuff available in race changes. I can change the name, presumably because the devs felt that some names are distinctly more appropriate for some races than others, but I can not change my diety despite some of those being more appropriate for some races than others, nor can I change my home or background despite those being the same... An elf Wizard from Myth Drannor, Descendant of the Coronals, that follows Corellon is one thing, but if that Elf suddenly becomes a Dwarf or Half Orc then all of that background detail makes a lot less sense.
The quest thing is interesting, but your drop numbers really astonish me. I've been playing since the beginning with 5 characters up to 7 recently... and in all that time I have had exactly THREE Coalescent stones drop. Granted ai have received about a dozen or so Preservation wards, but I can't imagine the drop rate you're talking about.
I mean, maybe if you are over-leveled then you can choose not to fight the monsters when trying to achieve certain mission objectives, or a rogue might be able to sneak by enemies rather than fight them, but many missions offer not even that much choice.
Besides, why does matter.
Sure, using a poisoned weapon and attacking from behind might be seen as dishonorable by some, but what if they are fighting against a demon lord to prevent the deaths and enslavement of innocent people?
Does announcing your presence and "fighting fair" make things all better if the "what" is an innocent merchant and the "why" is "because I want their money"?
That doesn't mean that it's okay to make someone suffer just for kicks as long as they are evil, but everything has to be looked at through a wider lens.
At least as wide as the game gives us.
Makos was a hero.
Was.
It's possible for heroes to fall; To fail.
That doesn't mean that their heroic actions were all part of some larger evil plan.
I'd say, Macos chose his side. The side of Neverwinter. The side of the heroes. He helps them, so he too is hailed a hero. His actions, while morally sometimes questionable make him a hero to the population of Neverwinter.
eh, no. He lich'd out. Game over.
From another fantasy game, Skyrim, there is a dialog option you can take when asked why you want to save the world, "I like this world and don't want it to end." That statement can be valid for any character, both good and evil.
It means one is selfish. Self-defense and self-preservation are not evil but they are self-service.
If Makos were to ally with Valindra, or willingly support Valindra, then that would be evil.
Despite his reputation, Gruumsh seems pretty easy to please.
I encounter quite a few evangelical Gruumshians in NW. They frequently vocalize his simple expectations.
"Gruumsh demands blood"... but that's about it. Yeah, I'll take Gruumsh.
Edit
Hmmm. Reading the "Shaman of Gruumsh" initiate instructions...
"must pluck out one of your eyes to be more like Gruumsh..."
Uhhh. Nvm. Will stick with Helm.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Now I do have 1 of every Character Class but that's still only 8 Character's and 3 of them have only been added in the last 1.5 years. Still that's only one more than you, and my last I only added a week ago, to finally add a Warlock into the mix. 8 Character's & 8 unique Classes after 4 years of playing... So it's no where close to what some have with the maximum of 54; and I don't care who you are, most can't regularly play 10, at least for any length of time.
But yeah - I've heard many claim's in forums over the years, mostly from those with Celestial Armies (which I wouldn't recommend) if they stock pile Celestial Chest 100-162 or more can earn 1, 2 and in the rarest of occasions perhaps even 3. Now I'm unsure if they are holding Celestial Chests for a 2x event, which I also admit I always open them right away, that's still giving them an extremely UNFAIR advantage... I think it's UNFAIR solely on the fact your just logging in for 1 second to pray and logout, just to get 162 Celestial Chests, from each of the 54 character's - then use them on only but a select few characters. It's using character's your not even trying to grow to gain a vast many more ward's that you'd otherwise be able to get... That was my main point - give us a mission with entry, intermediate, or advanced levels of difficulty that would allow possibilities for slightly a few more ward's to be earned if their character's you play a lot and have grown.
Most are extremely lucky if they earn 1 Preservation Ward a Month, as each character will only get 2-3 Celestial Chests, still it can sometimes take 1-2 months just to earn a single Preservation Ward. So if you assume a 20-25% Preservation Ward dropping which varies depending on the Chest you open, if you have 54 Characters praying every day to earn 162 every 33 days:
Based on 54 Characters praying every day for 33 days:
▪ 162 Celestial Chests at 20% for Preservation Wards depending on Chest is 32.4
▪ 162 Celestial Chests at 25% for Preservation Wards depending on Chest is 40.5
▪ 162 Celestial Chests at 1-1.5% for Coalescent Wards depending on Chest can be about 1.62 - 2.43
╘ That's before any 2x event might apply as well - so 30-59 Preservation Ward's seems a FAIR estimate.
Based on 7 Characters praying every day for 33 days:
▪ 21 Celestial Chests at 20% for Preservation Wards depending on Chest is 4.2
▪ 21 Celestial Chests at 25% for Preservation Wards depending on Chest is 5.25
▪ 21 Celestial Chests at 1-1.5% for Coalescent Wards depending on Chest is 0.21 - 0.315
╘ All that means with 7 character's it might take 4-5 months before obtaining a Coal Ward.
╘ That's before any 2x event might apply as well. Though Coal's have ranged from 0.5%-1.5% at times.
Why I'd love to see a move to Account Wide Celestial Coin's or even REPLACING with a unique set of QUESTS for each Deity / God than could be done at most once or twice a month. Then as the level of challenges increase to more Intermediate or Advanced the possibilities in the type's and #'s of wards given each month may slightly increase. It's also be a good way to learn more about our chosen GOD / Deity of each character, while also perhaps giving unique challenges, help, or insights and wisdom from our God's.
I just think something needs to be done to bring Celestial Armies into line. The only unknown factor is if they gave a quest which took 10-20 minutes to complete how many people with the 54 character would run each character through those? As that could take almost 9 hours to run 54 character even thru a mission that took 10 minutes. But it's certainly better than login - pray for 1-2 seconds and logout on character's that have no item level or boons being rewarded with wards.
I only have 9 toons but my high end reward rate judging from those nine are nothing like you're extrapolating. I get a coal maybe 3 times a year in a good year and pressies like maybe 1 or 2 a month. I can't imagine that even with armies the returns are anywhere near as good as you posit. I strongly disagree with any nerfing of this process. especially after coal gate. if anything the drop rate should be INCREASED. or more pressies than one per invoke that might grant pressies. and by god if you're willing to sacrifice the hour or hour and a half to invoke on 53 toons then you deserve a coal ward lol. holy heck. I mean if it only takes one minute for the change screen, and the loading screen that's an hour per cycle if you do it for all the cycles to get your two coins that's hoursssss spent invoking. you aren't doing anything else in game at all. all I can say is.. poor sucka (to the person invoking 53 times x 7 per day)
This reminds me of arguments that raising undead, no matter the context, is ALWAYS evil. I've been in those disagreements too. For example, imagine orcs are attacking and slaughtering a village. You kill some of the attacking orcs and animate them as zombies. You instruct them to defend the local orphanage and *only* attack other Orcs. Some people will still adamantly declare that an evil act. I'm not saying that's how you would break on that, but to me it's a similar situation. Context is important.
I'm also a fan of the concept of "fighting the darkness with darkness" for the greater good, and the inherit struggle to resist its lure.
I mean 20-25% of the time you'll likely get a Preservation Ward from a Celestial Chest, but 75-80% of the time a possible Peridoe, Aqua, or a Green or Blue Enchanting stone or Mark of Potency. For Preservation Ward's I don't do to bad but again until recently I also only had 7 character's. Still I find if most of mine pray every day they at least have a 60-75% chance of earning 1 Preservation Ward a month; but it's by no means a guarantee like with all things RNG.
Also when I said 1-2 Coalescent Ward's every 33 days realize that's opening 162 Celestial chests with 54 Character praying every day as the drop rate is often 0.75-1.5% chance for earning one. Though the DEVs do sometimes change the drop chances for different wards or stones at different times in subtle but slightly noticeable fashion. I said ONLY in extremely RARE situations might someone obtain 3 from opening 162 Celestial Chests; but that requires extremely lucky RNG for that to happen. Like the person who sometimes upgrades an enchantment with 1-2% chance and uses not even a single ward.
Assuming 20-25% drop rate of Preservation Ward's from Celestial Chests:
162 Celestial Chests over 54 Character's a month: 162 x .20 = 32.4 or 162 x.25 is 40.5 (within 30-54 range)
╘ Prior to any 2x Event, which double's the drop.
So I'm not quite sure how you feel my assessment is extrapolating?
Still I think the MAIN POINT I was trying to FOCUS on above was I'd rather see them move away from Celestial Coins being claimable by each character so easily. I'd rather see them move to giving us a bi-monthly or monthly quest from our Deity or God to possibly earn various Wisdom, Insights, or Guidance / Help (Wards) from our Chosen God every month. It be a GREAT way to also explore and learn a little more about each of the various God's in Neverwinter, with a few different quests given by each God (perhaps similar) but unique in the things they ask us to completed or how... Yes CONTEXT is key to many things... (except perhaps undead)
I think sometimes why many in forums often get too FOCUSED on one point, then they often disregard other things stated to support an argument or overarching premise, so it gets lost without seeing largest message being conveyed.
"We're set, boss. We got an army of 500 raised...Uh oh, um... Sorry, boss. Bad guy now has an additional 500 troops to throw at us. Sorry about that."
why would you want them to nerf something that by your own experience is already low in reward? afaik no actual drop rates have ever been published on ANYTHING in neverwinter. I don't think they're as high as you say they are or surely it would be more common for people to get them instead of a yearly or bi yearly event. pressies and coals via this method are also boa.. so I just don't get why you'd want people to get even less reward and behind more of a effort wall..
I'd be behind adding the quest ON TOP of invoking.. that would give you another chance at a coal.. I mean why not moar reward!!
but if someone is invoking on 53 toons that's how they're playing this game. they don't have time for ANYTHING else. and yah know. if that's how they want to play.. then that's how they want to play. imo they've earned their silly ol coal ward. personally I think there are more lucrative ways to spend ones time