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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: Changes to Random Queues

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  • onodrainonodrain Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    And it is entirely possible that they are not reading chat at all. No one should be penalized for running content. If they are doing it wrong they shouldn't be beaten with a stick during the encounter.

    I couldn't disagree more. They penalize the group by not paying attention and not learning the skirmish mechanics. Less rewards for everyone because one player decides to kill/stun Thoon Hulks.

    This is not the end of the world. But if they get a debuff/stun, maybe they will pay attention.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User

    ...My ranger has a 4050 movement bonus, my paladin is up to 3100, and mine and my wife's warlocks are 3550. The speed difference between those characters and someone under 70 is so dramatic that it would mean I would have to stand around for a minute, then I could start moving and I would almost immediately catch up to that player. Hell, there are many level 70's that I end up running with who have very good gear (sometimes including legendary rings!) and yet their movement bonus is only 700 or 800. I can't stand running slowly and it has nothing to do with saving time; it just plain feels like I'm wading through molasses and it drives me crazy. The rest of my characters have movement bonuses down around 1000 and I hate it. All but one of my characters is level 22 Leadership or higher now (and the one who isn't is 21), and one of the first things I intend to do with all those refinement points is to increase their movement speed. Forget the artifacts and the enchantments, these HAMSTERS need to get the lead out!...

    That's a very good point.
    Sometimes the characters I run into are so slow, I'm tempted to mail them some darks afterward. Probably should. Thanks for taking the time to explain your perspective. Up until I read your posts, I assumed all speedsters were the same ilk, but now I see that they're not.

    As far as Thoon Hulks go, it takes a special kind of ignorance to continue killing them after you've seen several players purposely guide those enormous red lights into the gates. How anyone could miss that is beyond me - could land an Airbus on those running lights. I think most players stop pretty quickly, but what they don't figure out 'til someone tells them is that they need to ditch certain companions. The last few times I had matches with lots of dying Hulks, it was the pets' faults.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    Yeah, well, after they get the "guide those enormous red lights into the gates" they miss the other version where they need to be guided into the shield.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    ...My ranger has a 4050 movement bonus, my paladin is up to 3100, and mine and my wife's warlocks are 3550. The speed difference between those characters and someone under 70 is so dramatic that it would mean I would have to stand around for a minute, then I could start moving and I would almost immediately catch up to that player. Hell, there are many level 70's that I end up running with who have very good gear (sometimes including legendary rings!) and yet their movement bonus is only 700 or 800. I can't stand running slowly and it has nothing to do with saving time; it just plain feels like I'm wading through molasses and it drives me crazy. The rest of my characters have movement bonuses down around 1000 and I hate it. All but one of my characters is level 22 Leadership or higher now (and the one who isn't is 21), and one of the first things I intend to do with all those refinement points is to increase their movement speed. Forget the artifacts and the enchantments, these HAMSTERS need to get the lead out!...

    That's a very good point.
    Sometimes the characters I run into are so slow, I'm tempted to mail them some darks afterward. Probably should. Thanks for taking the time to explain your perspective. Up until I read your posts, I assumed all speedsters were the same ilk, but now I see that they're not.

    As far as Thoon Hulks go, it takes a special kind of ignorance to continue killing them after you've seen several players purposely guide those enormous red lights into the gates. How anyone could miss that is beyond me - could land an Airbus on those running lights. I think most players stop pretty quickly, but what they don't figure out 'til someone tells them is that they need to ditch certain companions. The last few times I had matches with lots of dying Hulks, it was the pets' faults.
    Thank you. Also, I have to say that I appreciate this discussion of Thoon Hulks. I don't run that skirmish very often. The last time I ran it was with my wife and she'd never run it before. I'd forgotten that the Hulks needed to be aimed at the shield and the doors. It's also nice to have a reminder to put the non-augment companions away. My nephew's going to come for a visit starting Monday. I think next weekend I'll run this with him. I think he'd have a blast with it.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    onodrain said:



    I couldn't disagree more. They penalize the group by not paying attention and not learning the skirmish mechanics. Less rewards for everyone because one player decides to kill/stun Thoon Hulks.

    This is not the end of the world. But if they get a debuff/stun, maybe they will pay attention.

    No one is being penalized just because there is one person in the instance that doesn't know what they're supposed to be doing (yet). The fact that you feel that way says more about you than them.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • onodrainonodrain Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    onodrain said:



    I couldn't disagree more. They penalize the group by not paying attention and not learning the skirmish mechanics. Less rewards for everyone because one player decides to kill/stun Thoon Hulks.

    This is not the end of the world. But if they get a debuff/stun, maybe they will pay attention.

    No one is being penalized just because there is one person in the instance that doesn't know what they're supposed to be doing (yet). The fact that you feel that way says more about you than them.
    Unfortunately, what you say is not true. One person in the instance can penalize the entire team. It only takes one person to stun and/or kill thoon hulks to cause you to lose ranks in the skirmish. If you do not attain GOLD rank, then you do not receive as much loot. Also, the skirmish can be lengthened until the point of failure. Though this is extremely rare.
  • hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    I'm just curious how/if these queue changes are actually being tested? I queued for about half an hour yesterday on preview - there just arent enough people logged in to actually be queued for anything.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    There is incentive to do only one RQ per account, so I expect queue times to be longer. Probably not possible to test on preview without a really long wait. Another thing to consider, in the first few weeks, many people will be grinding seals for primal gear. So I expect eToS and eSoT queues to have very fast turnover.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,817 Arc User

    There is incentive to do only one RQ per account, so I expect queue times to be longer. Probably not possible to test on preview without a really long wait. Another thing to consider, in the first few weeks, many people will be grinding seals for primal gear. So I expect eToS and eSoT queues to have very fast turnover.

    You will get the seal from RQ even after the first run. You can't choose which dungeon to pop. You can't do non-RQ to get seal effectively.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    edited June 2018


    You will get the seal from RQ even after the first run. You can't choose which dungeon to pop. You can't do non-RQ to get seal effectively.

    There is seal reward for direct queue, don't know how much but I will find out. It will be less. But if I have time for a multi-run, do I want to risk doing a repeat RQ and having to abandon it and be locked out of everything for 30 minutes? No, I'm going to do something I rarely do, go to PE and look for a 14K eToS/eSoT run.

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    There is a 2x seals event two weeks after mod 14 drops. I think I will save the seal grind for that weekend to get all my toons be all primal geared up.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    onodrain said:



    Unfortunately, what you say is not true. One person in the instance can penalize the entire team. It only takes one person to stun and/or kill thoon hulks to cause you to lose ranks in the skirmish. If you do not attain GOLD rank, then you do not receive as much loot. Also, the skirmish can be lengthened until the point of failure. Though this is extremely rare.

    So, in your time of playing Neverwinter you knew all the necessary mechanics for new content as soon as it dropped and never once have you ever made mistakes while playing. Is that what you're saying?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • diotelpdiotelp Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    WHY ARE THE DEVS PUTTING ILLUSIONIST'S GAMBIT MASTER IN THE LEVELING QUEUE?

    This content is not for low level players, i regularly have to carry low IL people. This content will give potentially bis companion equipment in the newest mod so its still relevant content.

    This is clearly the devs only listen to the bad side of our community that afk's in IG gold and thinks they shouldn't have to play it. Please devs dont do this, you make it so they dont have to play it and put it somewhere else, a worse place.

    DO NOT SUPPORT THESE TOXIC INDIVIDUALS DEVS
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    diotelp said:

    WHY ARE THE DEVS PUTTING ILLUSIONIST'S GAMBIT MASTER IN THE LEVELING QUEUE

    This is a problem because people do IG for two different (and incompatible reasons). You have those that want Bronze for quick AD and those that want to Gold for a chance at the +4 or +5 companion gear.

    My advice to anyone who wants to do Gold is basically to always run with a premade Guild/alliance/LFG group. Just assume that RQ IG runs are Bronze only. That will avoid a lot of frustration.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,265 Arc User
    IG gear will be in the new lockbox, so there may be a lot less incentive to run Gold.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    IG gear will be in the new lockbox, so there may be a lot less incentive to run Gold.

    During the first month you will find a lot +4 talisman and neck selling for good AD. After the second month those same items are going to cost about half than first month and by the time we reach the Mod15 those items are going to cost more or less the salvage price. At that moment anyone that vote for Gold on IG is probably just trolling the team.

    Putting the same items IG as a reward from a lockbox basically remove IG gold as a playable content. There are no reason for anyone to consider to going there, besides fast salvage bronze runs (they do take just a few minutes to complete, but sadly it has long waiting times).
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    diotelp said:

    WHY ARE THE DEVS PUTTING ILLUSIONIST'S GAMBIT MASTER IN THE LEVELING QUEUE?

    This content is not for low level players, i regularly have to carry low IL people. This content will give potentially bis companion equipment in the newest mod so its still relevant content.

    This is clearly the devs only listen to the bad side of our community that afk's in IG gold and thinks they shouldn't have to play it. Please devs dont do this, you make it so they dont have to play it and put it somewhere else, a worse place.

    DO NOT SUPPORT THESE TOXIC INDIVIDUALS DEVS

    Actually, I think it makes perfect sense. Kudos to the devs for coming up to this genius solution. The people who want gold are usually undergeared, so they should run with fellow undergeared players. See if they are so eager to force others to do gold now. The vote will actually mean something now as players will need to consider if gold is possible with their group, which is the original intent of the voting system. Whereas today, the vote has turned into a means to force others to commit the time to carry the group to gold.

    I avoid the leveling queues already, so I will be happy not to see IG anymore. No more getting held hostage for me, yeah!
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2018
    Thank you all for your continued feedback. Just wanted to drop in and let you all know that we're making a few more adjustments ahead of this feature going live.

    Tomb of the Nine Gods and Cradle of the Death God are being moved to the expert random queue. In addition, the reward for the expert random queue will be significantly increased. Please take a look at the changes when Ravenloft launches. We believe that some of you may consider running the expert queue with the planned adjustments.

    I'm just curious how/if these queue changes are actually being tested? I queued for about half an hour yesterday on preview - there just arent enough people logged in to actually be queued for anything.

    We don't expect certain features to get any real testing on the preview shard as they are sometimes just not practical to test. Additionally, everyone on preview is understandably mostly interested in getting a sneak peek at new content, not running old content for rewards that won't carry over to live. But our internal QA team is heavily testing the changes to random queues.
  • heraldfayez#8520 heraldfayez Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you all for your continued feedback. Just wanted to drop in and let you all know that we're making a few more adjustments ahead of this feature going live.

    Tomb of the Nine Gods and Cradle of the Death God are being moved to the expert random queue. In addition, the reward for the expert random queue will be significantly increased. Please take a look at the changes when Ravenloft launches. We believe that some of you may consider running the expert queue with the planned adjustments.

    I'm just curious how/if these queue changes are actually being tested? I queued for about half an hour yesterday on preview - there just arent enough people logged in to actually be queued for anything.

    We don't expect certain features to get any real testing on the preview shard as they are sometimes just not practical to test. Additionally, everyone on preview is understandably mostly interested in getting a sneak peek at new content, not running old content for rewards that won't carry over to live. But our internal QA team is heavily testing the changes to random queues.
    any changes to the AD cap per account please ? enough people are complaining for some change to happen at least increase this cap to reasonble amount please 100K a day you can't even upgrade a pet with refining AD if u play 1 week :) please consider adding some changes otherwise the feedback thread is simply there for us to 'bark like dogs on a moving plane" sorry for the expression but that's how it really feel when you are unheard
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Tomb of the Nine Gods and Cradle of the Death God are being moved to the expert random queue.

    Thank you for this! This sort of thing was one of the biggest problems with the previous RQ system, I'm glad you're taking that into account this time around. I understand the desire to have *only* the newest content in the top queue, but it just doesn't work out here, and thanks for recognizing that.

    On a different note, have there been any thoughts on changing Illusionist's Gambit, or at least the way it lives in the queues? Like doing fixed "Bronze" (Normal) runs in the Leveling Queue and fixed "Gold" (Master) runs in the Intermediate Queue? In any case, I think getting rid of the voting and having 2 different IGs (Normal = Bronze, Master = Gold) would ease a lot of strife and grief in that skirmish.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    onodrain said:

    greywynd said:

    onodrain said:



    I couldn't disagree more. They penalize the group by not paying attention and not learning the skirmish mechanics. Less rewards for everyone because one player decides to kill/stun Thoon Hulks.

    This is not the end of the world. But if they get a debuff/stun, maybe they will pay attention.

    No one is being penalized just because there is one person in the instance that doesn't know what they're supposed to be doing (yet). The fact that you feel that way says more about you than them.
    Unfortunately, what you say is not true. One person in the instance can penalize the entire team. It only takes one person to stun and/or kill thoon hulks to cause you to lose ranks in the skirmish. If you do not attain GOLD rank, then you do not receive as much loot. Also, the skirmish can be lengthened until the point of failure. Though this is extremely rare.
    why the fk do you need gold on that skirmish, rewards are rng based and the +5 rings are outdated and waste of a key, better make epic key and farm cn on 2xrp drops.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    pterias said:

    asterdahl said:

    Tomb of the Nine Gods and Cradle of the Death God are being moved to the expert random queue.

    Thank you for this! This sort of thing was one of the biggest problems with the previous RQ system, I'm glad you're taking that into account this time around. I understand the desire to have *only* the newest content in the top queue, but it just doesn't work out here, and thanks for recognizing that.

    On a different note, have there been any thoughts on changing Illusionist's Gambit, or at least the way it lives in the queues? Like doing fixed "Bronze" (Normal) runs in the Leveling Queue and fixed "Gold" (Master) runs in the Intermediate Queue? In any case, I think getting rid of the voting and having 2 different IGs (Normal = Bronze, Master = Gold) would ease a lot of strife and grief in that skirmish.
    yep the random queue list once again is badly made,

    the idead for rq looks good, maybe like this:

    random leveling queue: all 3player dungeon, dl skirmish, master hunter skirmish, bronze ig

    random intermidiate queue: elol, mc, vt, ecc, egwd, etos, cn, kr, esot, ndemo, silver IG

    random advanced queue: MSP, FBI, edemo, gold IG, folly

    random expert queue: TONG, CODG, RC

    @asterdahl this is what i was expecting so far from what rq should offer, since adorable bites gear is added to lockboxes maybe add them to ig gold runs? that ig suggestion may be a difficult to apply.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    pterias said:


    On a different note, have there been any thoughts on changing Illusionist's Gambit, or at least the way it lives in the queues? Like doing fixed "Bronze" (Normal) runs in the Leveling Queue and fixed "Gold" (Master) runs in the Intermediate Queue? In any case, I think getting rid of the voting and having 2 different IGs (Normal = Bronze, Master = Gold) would ease a lot of strife and grief in that skirmish.

    Tinkering with IG like that would makes it a bit weird, not to mention the bugs that might be added to an old run. It is a great idea to put IG in the leveling queue because now it will be done like when it first came out in mod 11, a somewhat challenging run and people vote based on how they performed on the previous level. If they barely survived, they can take their prize and leave. Today, just one overgeared player means gold is guaranteed. The vote just a way to force the overgeared to carry the undergeared for easy gold.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    asterdahl said:


    Tomb of the Nine Gods and Cradle of the Death God are being moved to the expert random queue. In addition, the reward for the expert random queue will be significantly increased. Please take a look at the changes when Ravenloft launches. We believe that some of you may consider running the expert queue with the planned adjustments.

    Another great move! With primal gear becoming standard issue for the non-BiS, they harder runs in there, FBI and mSP, should be more puggable, giving a very reasonable chance to get the advanced queue reward on a daily basis.
  • diotelpdiotelp Member Posts: 115 Arc User

    diotelp said:

    WHY ARE THE DEVS PUTTING ILLUSIONIST'S GAMBIT MASTER IN THE LEVELING QUEUE?

    This content is not for low level players, i regularly have to carry low IL people. This content will give potentially bis companion equipment in the newest mod so its still relevant content.

    This is clearly the devs only listen to the bad side of our community that afk's in IG gold and thinks they shouldn't have to play it. Please devs dont do this, you make it so they dont have to play it and put it somewhere else, a worse place.

    DO NOT SUPPORT THESE TOXIC INDIVIDUALS DEVS

    Actually, I think it makes perfect sense. Kudos to the devs for coming up to this genius solution. The people who want gold are usually undergeared, so they should run with fellow undergeared players. See if they are so eager to force others to do gold now. The vote will actually mean something now as players will need to consider if gold is possible with their group, which is the original intent of the voting system. Whereas today, the vote has turned into a means to force others to commit the time to carry the group to gold.

    I avoid the leveling queues already, so I will be happy not to see IG anymore. No more getting held hostage for me, yeah!
    You said the people that want gold are usually undergeared, yes now plz show me your evidence for this. Have you ever been in an undergeared group and tried IG gold, its hard and if its put in leveling they will need a carry which is unlikly now everyone will avoid leveling so they just wont be able to do gold most likely. You also say the changes will make the vote matter, and people need to consider, tehy do already, and the vote in its current state does matter. If you choose to afk because only you voted no, you're not being held hostage and if you stand against this vote your a bad player and undemocratic, you just say, well no i dont like the results of your vote, i dont want to do it so i wont, and thats your bad choice there.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    diotelp said:


    You said the people that want gold are usually undergeared, yes now plz show me your evidence for this. Have you ever been in an undergeared group and tried IG gold, its hard and if its put in leveling they will need a carry which is unlikly now everyone will avoid leveling so they just wont be able to do gold most likely. You also say the changes will make the vote matter, and people need to consider, tehy do already, and the vote in its current state does matter. If you choose to afk because only you voted no, you're not being held hostage and if you stand against this vote your a bad player and undemocratic, you just say, well no i dont like the results of your vote, i dont want to do it so i wont, and thats your bad choice there.

    Gold should be hard, and should be earned. There should be some risk for voting silver and gold. Too many people feel entitled to a fast guaranteed gold run, which is usually done at someone else's expense (the ones who don't need the companion gear). Skewing IG towards the lower gear population is fair to the most people as it gets more people who care for companion gear into IG and keeps more people who don't care for them out.

    I wouldn't worry about a lack of carriers. There are plenty of well-geared players who are willing to dip into the leveling queues for their RAD. If they have no problems with causing angst in the new or low-geared players they end up with, then IG gold will be a risk for them. Since they will be locked out of everything for 30 minutes if they leave, they will probably just do the gold run and get it over with. You will end up with less AFKs.

    And if you do end up with an AFK, do the sensible thing and consider wiping, or at least leaving with silver. This recently happened when a group of people tried to force me to carry them.



    The #3 paingiver is my 13K TR. Did 17 million in bronze, over 90% of the DPS. When I AFKed, the group forged ahead. The last paingiver disconnected after silver when the others voted to continue to gold. So gold is possible even with three undergeared players. It's how willing the players are at spending one hour for it.
    Post edited by namelesshero347 on
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    IG has another problem. Would-be-gold run sometimes fail with "randomly reflect damage" envronment. My GWF dies from reflected critted at-will damage particularly if party buffs are active. I do not even try IBS or dailies on this phase. I would love if this environment option is removed. 1/3 of parties pass through this environment, and it take a lot of time because party need to reduce their DPS. So good builds are penalized on this environments.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User



    If I get content I dont want to do then I wont be doing it and a penalty wont make me change my mind. If it takes fifteen minute to kick me or I get a thirty minute penalty then I will choose forcing other players to kick me as it penalises me less. The players who do this already sit outside 'enter to progress circles' or just go afk and return a couple of times to prevent the logging out. These things already happen and there is no reason to think that this will change.

    Then be mature about it and take the leaver penalty from the start.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited June 2018


    At no point does a person implicitly or explicitly agree that the choices of others are binding upon them in this game. Just to make 100% sure you get this, I reject completely the idea that either other players or developers have any right to compel me to do any content I do not want to do...and the tyranny of the majority is clearly at work here so passive resistance, or afk, is a justified resistance to oppression (yes, this last part is sarcasm as this is a video game and not really all that important)...

    If I get content I dont want to do then I wont be doing it and a penalty wont make me change my mind. If it takes fifteen minute to kick me or I get a thirty minute penalty then I will choose forcing other players to kick me as it penalises me less. The players who do this already sit outside 'enter to progress circles' or just go afk and return a couple of times to prevent the logging out. These things already happen and there is no reason to think that this will change.

    Far worse than tyranny of the many is tyranny of the few.

    On the one hand, I couldn't disagree with you more, and on the other - I wholeheartedly agree with you.

    On the one hand, anyone who queues in the Random content should be prepared to play Random content.

    On the other hand, the only reason some players grudgingly - and with gritted teeth - subject themselves to the Random content is because that's where the developers placed the daily RAD. I get that.

    Here's the thing. The only reason the RAD is in the random queues is to encourage people to play the random queues. However, instead of viewing it as the incentive that it was meant to be, now we've got a group of people who perceive the daily RAD as some kind of unalienable right. They want that RAD for nothing, or for as little time and effort as they can spend, and some are unwilling to spend either because they're sociopaths who get a tickle out of sitting on a ridiculous looking throne while everyone else scurries about - which is good for society as a whole, I reckon, since they're getting their outlet where noone gets physically and permanently hurt - just a few mental scars here and there, and a disdain for humanity as whole.

    Here's how I see it.
    If you want your RAD. Play the random queue...and play what you get.
    If you don't want your RAD. Don't play the random queue.

    How do you enforce that?
    I'm not sure you do.
    How do you encourage that?
    Already been done. Most of the players I queue with are more than willing to take on whatever the Random queue throws them, but what I think many of us resent - actively resent - is having no permanent recourse when we're dumped into a queue with leeches or AFKers who view that RAD as rightfully theirs and resent having to play to get it.
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