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Official Feedback Thread: Astral Diamonds

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  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    chidion said:

    I'm curious, all those players saying they were able to make massive amounts of AD's per day previously - just what are those players doing with their accumulated wealth?

    I see quite a few regulars who appear to be purchasing items from the Auction House and relisting those items at an inflated price - that's one thing I see as a benefit for those making massive amounts of AD's daily... and one of the best reasons for nurfing the daily AD amount as far as I'm concerned.

    I also see quite a few players repeatedly running dungeon and skirmish content for the sole purpose of accumulating more Astral Diamonds with the apparent mindset that the quicker they make that run the sooner they can run their other characters to make even more AD's... as a result those who do run dungeons just for AD's tend to resent and sometimes wish to exclude or punish players who's primary purpose is not solely to accumulate more AD's during these runs.

    Every player from the newest players to the most experienced players needs a certain amount of AD's to purchase better gear, enchantments, runestones, companions, mounts and artifacts so they can play Neverwinter more effectively but beyond that, it is my opinion that players accumulating massive amounts of AD's only serves the purpose of HAMSTER up the Neverwinter economy and artificially inflating the prices of some items available for purchase from the Auction House.

    My personal thought - I'm giving the change to some players being able to accumulating massive quantities of AD's two very big thumbs up.

    Purchase refinement to improve my character, donate AD to my guild/alliance, save up to buy other items I need or want. Please don't lump everyone into a single group. I work for what I want.
    Not to try to put too fine a point on it, but I'm only responsible for what I post - not your flawed interpretation of what I posted...

    I specifically defined my statement with "quite a few regulars" and "quite a few players"... which in no reasonable interpretation includes "everyone" playing Neverwinter.

    If for some reason you believe this mention was directed specifically at you - or all players, that's clearly your interpretation of what was stated - not what I actually posted.

    **By the way; I personally would advise against donating actual astral diamonds to the guild coffers and instead do the Leadership professions task that produces AD chests which can also be donated to the guild coffers. If a player intends to buy items they "need or want", dropping AD's into the guild coffers seems like a bad idea to me.


  • ivansinkovic1ivansinkovic1 Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    From mod to mod, I keep wondering how much bad ideas do you produce for every good one.. From what I've noticed, that number is getting bigger and bigger with every mod..
  • omegarealities#7219 omegarealities Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    chidion said:

    chidion said:

    I'm curious, all those players saying they were able to make massive amounts of AD's per day previously - just what are those players doing with their accumulated wealth?

    I see quite a few regulars who appear to be purchasing items from the Auction House and relisting those items at an inflated price - that's one thing I see as a benefit for those making massive amounts of AD's daily... and one of the best reasons for nurfing the daily AD amount as far as I'm concerned.

    I also see quite a few players repeatedly running dungeon and skirmish content for the sole purpose of accumulating more Astral Diamonds with the apparent mindset that the quicker they make that run the sooner they can run their other characters to make even more AD's... as a result those who do run dungeons just for AD's tend to resent and sometimes wish to exclude or punish players who's primary purpose is not solely to accumulate more AD's during these runs.

    Every player from the newest players to the most experienced players needs a certain amount of AD's to purchase better gear, enchantments, runestones, companions, mounts and artifacts so they can play Neverwinter more effectively but beyond that, it is my opinion that players accumulating massive amounts of AD's only serves the purpose of HAMSTER up the Neverwinter economy and artificially inflating the prices of some items available for purchase from the Auction House.

    My personal thought - I'm giving the change to some players being able to accumulating massive quantities of AD's two very big thumbs up.

    Purchase refinement to improve my character, donate AD to my guild/alliance, save up to buy other items I need or want. Please don't lump everyone into a single group. I work for what I want.
    Not to try to put too fine a point on it, but I'm only responsible for what I post - not your interpretation of what I posted...

    I specifically defined my statement with "quite a few regulars" and "quite a few players"... which in no reasonable interpretation includes "everyone" playing Neverwinter.

    If for some reason you believe this mention was directed specifically at you - or all players, that's clearly your interpretation of what was stated - not what I actually posted.


    My error. I apologize.
  • juanito#6157 juanito Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    I'm not to happy about the change because makes getting ad slower, but we should wait to see how that works, because i did not like random queues either, but they made my farming quicker, so more actual gameplay time or at least looking for partys to run the content to progress like tong.

    The way I see it the main problem with the game economy is that zen store is a disaster. You need to go to it for progression items (wards), and you need a ton to do it. So in order to get for example a weapon enchantmens i have to go to ah and buy a rank 7/8 (that are usually cheaper than making it, then, you need to got throught all the refinement process). So at least 5 coal wards. This also apllies to ranking up runestones, companion enchantments and my own enchantments. I have spent around 350 wards on january to rank up my enchantments one level (9>10), and I still need to buy a lot more (which means more zen demand).

    Because of how the game economy works, buying zen does not make sense, unless is for something in particular that you don't want to wait like campaing tokens for a new character, or something that will help all of your toons, like a purple mount.
    Once you spent money on that and vip, there is no reason to put money on the game. If I want a legendary mount, I have to spend around 150 $ to get the amount of ad I may need, is way to expensive, and to get something for only 1 toon.

    On the other hand, drop rates are to low, so everything is rare and expensive, which inflates prices on ah. The other problem with drop rates is that lockbox drop mostly useless things, like companions that do not do anyuthing usefull unless you are opening glorius resurgence. Because you could get things like velociraptor and savage allosaur from relatively new lockboxes, but you'll end up going for the same companions that most use when you start working on getting to the higher tier dungeons. orcus set is still best in slot for dps, drop rate is awfully low so you end up paying around 1.1 mil to get the set (ps4), if you werent able to get it from farming cn and demogorgon a gazillion times. If drop rates are low, and things are tied to specific content, people will be running always the same. You run cn for a chance to get the artifact, tong for ues and seal of the brave, and so on. If you are a low geared toon, you run elol or shores to get some salvage, and a remote chance to get something usefull.

    And there are lot of things that are gated by your ability to run a dungeons like tong (ues or masterwork resources). And getting there takes a lot of ad and time. For example, most builds, even "support/tanks" use dps companions. You can get them from th ah from around 800k to 1.3mil on ps4 (tiger, archons, belial), not taking into account siege master because is available on zen market. Some companions can be purchased for trade bars, but ends up costing more to upgrade the companion that to actually save and buy it on ah, so there is a sink hole that is awfully used.

    Adding to all this, you have the problem that your drops could be character binded (which is nonsense), or account bound (easier to digest, but not good either). All of this contributes to the fact that usefull things are expensive because they are few, or nobody want to play that content anymore (like msva for the valhalla set).
    And even if it's unbound, things get bound on equip to the character again, so reusing things is out of the question, and I can't unbound for ad (another sink hole here that is not being used) to improve my alts with things that i'm not using on my main anymore. I'll pay around 100k to unbound a companion for example, if that will allow me to improve a toon, or test something.

    If you want to create ad sinks, you need to improve the transmute system (like the one in diablo 3), and reform the companion/mount system (this would be a ton of work). You could make a mix of both of them, and enable characters to select a skin for the companion like you do currnetly on mounts (for example using tiger, but make it look like a hakw), and select separetly the active bonus, attack, and so forth. And adding the option of upgrading your mounts to legendary, like you do with companions. Even it would be cooler if you have to run a quest to finishing up the upgrade, or getting the materials besiade the ad. This will add value to companions, which most of them are currently useless, add new things to do, and more ways to spend ad. The bigger problem with expending ad, is that there are few usefull ways to use it, and most of them give ad to another person.

    At the end of the day I will adapt and keep playing with may frineds as long as they keep doing it, but if you want to fix the market, you really need to take a look to the ways of making ad that are outside of the dayly runs, because even if a player runs 1 a mill a day on alts, there are people making more, without cap, and playing the market, so you'll end up creating a bigger breach between the players that put the effort to progress and the 1 porcent that runs the game (as in the real world). Mastercraft being one of the biggest examples of this.
  • eld0ct0reld0ct0r Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    okay you want to change the ad be clever at least about it dont make it like 100k cap swap it to 50k+ 15k per extra toon(a lot of players bought toons jsut to farm more ad if you wna tot loose players thats the way to go if not follow my advice, said by someoen who doesnt alt farm with 13 toons...) you know what it is going to happen they are goign to farm more with multiple accounts XD. best way to sink the ad get them out of the zen store move them to the ah trader for 65k(with lvl 12 vip is around 50k ad) ad and back to the tarmalune(dont know value of tarmalune tradebars) we will gladly sink our ad there...(wait a secodn arent we doing the ad for zen to get wards) another thign you can do instead of giving salvage drops in every dungoen run we could use to not have 100% droprate of armor and isntead get usefull thigns like refining packs or guild vouchers... i mena i am salvaging 480 gear i will salvage 500 gear... but gettign cool dyes can be worht more for us that some random armors we will destroy...
  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Member Posts: 379 Arc User

    lol @plasticbat.... yes i saw it said per account not per character.... lol i was reffering to the alt army people that use their alts to get ad then refine it and use the zax to shuffle it over to their main character. this "new thing" would impact those people the most. once the limt was reached they would in turn resort to selling on the ah to make up for what they could not get thru their "old way", hece drivin up ah prices i think.

    They won't need to use the zax any more. They will be able to do 'direct' deposit. Reaching the cap will not be as easy.
    aslso saw that point lol but a person with say 20 or so alts would have no problem reaching the cap lol

    No. RQ rAD earning is limited account wide too. There is no point to run alt for RQ.
    i saw this as well but unless im mistakein an they havent completely removed salvagable gear drops from the reward chests in epic dungeons alt army people will stil run rq/reg eq for those items salvage then transfer via "direct deposit" as you as called still haveing no problem reaching the cap (unless of course they went the latter and drasticaly reduced the salvage values of salvageable items) then your point would be valid as top runnin eq with alts (or evn reg eq)





  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    Lowering the income of AD will also lower the demand for zen what will make Zen-AD exchange not be always in the backlog. That's how you lower the prices on wards, mate.
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User

    I have another question:

    now I refine about 250k ad for day, with the new system I can refine 100k ad for day.
    A bot use a pg to refine 36k ad for today but botters use more of one account, so a bot can refine 360k ad for day using ten (36k * 10) accounts. With the new system, the same botter can refine up to 1kk ad for day (100k * 10).

    So, if I'm honest I have less ad, if I'm a bot I will be rich.

    Are you serious? Really you think people are stupid and still stay in a pay to play game full of bots and of bugs?


    99% Of botters now bot Random Q. I been once in random cragmire and third guy wouldn't move. I pmed him and he replied to my pm something like. I can't remember text exactly. He pmed me back Error_Move.php.
    I kept pming him and he lept replying same thing.
    I have NEVER SEEN a bot in epic dungeon. Yes, I seen 1000-2000 Item level in Throne.
    Epic dungeon perhaps too hard and not worth coding for them.
    If RQ are nerfed this way, bots still live a good life.
    In fact it could be all bots from that point on wards.
    He just creates 100 accounts.
    Runs his bot 1 time for 8000 + AD bonus if he bothers to invoke.
    Then he runs all other accounts.
    And then if his pc hasn't blew up yet he would run repeats.
    As community moderator pointed out it is not against botters.

    It is a war on honest players like myself and others.

    Our dear DEVS implemented Leadership nerf and it hasn't broken game down
    Then wards were dumped out of Tarma Bars and all tho everyone was really mad - the game went on
    Then was key gate change and still game ran
    Then was something else I can't recall and still the game remained.

    The devs are inspired how their changes gone down still among the negativity.
    So, perhaps I could say they felt EMPOWERED to go radical with the next change. Really radical, cross the fingers and hope after all fuming and shouting and slandering - this change will go down the way all others did.

    I honestly don't think so.

    AS LONG AS HERE ARE bots botting this game - they will fill the ZAX with their botted AD.

    Back log is at 19mill now. Main back log of 500 per 1 zen. With all other purchases it be 20mill or more.



  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User

    Nobody read?:

    The 100k cap is the least of it, this is the most important:

    "Below are the AD changes to the random queues:
    Leveling Queue: 8,000 first run / 1,000 repeat
    Intermediate Queue: 12,000 first run / 2,000 repeat / 2,400 role bonus
    Advanced: 15,000 first run / 3,000 repeat / 3,000 role bonus
    Expert: 5,000 role bonus

    The first run bonuses are now account gated meaning that only one character can earn those first run bonuses per day."

    That will affect severely to new players.

    I don't think it will. most new players don't have more than one account. if anything for honestly new players it's going to increase their money
    How would it increasse their money?
    They would need at last 10000 Item level to run VT/ELOL/ESOT and not die all the time.
    May be 8000 let's say


    How would they buy this now?

    Now 1 new player runs RQ. Buddy of mine had his younger bro joining may be 2 month or so ago. He started with 2 chars. He got some stuff from elder brother ofc. He rised 2 chars and was running random Q.
    At 9000 a day per char 18000 a day.
    He did it for 20 days while campaigning. Put it into ZAX bought zen
    Unlocked 4 or so more slots
    Ran randoms on all 6 chars.
    He is on game like 6 weeks or so
    May be 8 weeks. I can't be 100% sure.

    He now has 10 chars that runs RQ with every day.
    His main char, GWF has Pioneer gear, Rank 9 gems and a companion with rank 9 or 10 bondings.
    His second char GF, is a litte less geared, but getting here.

    He done it on RQ income.
    ONLY on that. And he bought ZEN with earmed AD.
    Zen that someone else bought to sell to him.

    So, how a new player as you say they be better off. How would they rise them selves on 8000 a day?
    THAT be for them 50 days to get 400k to buy some zen or to buy a gem.
    Rank 9 enchantment cost 130k or so


  • mageddo#6766 mageddo Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    1:Let's remove all rough AD from the game.

    2:Let's make all items have an RP and no RAD.

    3:Get rid of the Zax and remove AD from the game leaving only zen(even gold if we can)

    4:Have one currency game wide called zen(because 4 currencies and one that has an unrefined version just complicates things). Get rid of trade bars.

    5:Let's reward zen in dungeons(with caps), make wonderous bazaar and tradebar merchant only take zen replace trade bars in lockboxes with zen .

    6:Place caps on buyout amounts for item categories in trade house. To actually have people bid instead of buyout as most do. Bids can exceed cap.

    7:Put wards back into the tradebar merchant or wonderous bazaar as a zen sink.

    8:Have a transmute merchant with every fashion and armor ever made in game. Allow transmuted of fashion onto armor. As we've seen with the riversistrict weapons and preview windows allow a warlock to wear paladin armor, trickster fashion etc. Now that is one hell of a sink!

    9:all items are bound to account(never character)

    9:Allow items to be unbound(through a means of cost). Another sink!

    Is it a lot work? It is! But this economy clearly has problems or you wouldnt be doing this.


    With this RP and wards are easier to obtain which allow people to handle lowering the cost of enchantments in the trade house. We can eliminate some chat congestion as trading will be slowed due to better costs on items in the trade house. Bots will be quelled by the caps in trade house. Market will stay busy with new items now available by unbinding.

    Best of all it comes down to money. I've have seen people spend more money in games like fortnite for cosmetic items than in neverwinter. Why? Because there are not 4 currencies, a currency exchange, a trade system, or an auction house. It's too complicated for people to want to hand over money for zen.

    If you set the caps you control the flow. Therefore people will still have to buy zen to speed things along and you wont have to worry about having good items in the zen store(which really there never is any) since the entire ingame marketplace will have people buying zen for fashion, professions, mounts and so on you will always have people willing to pay.

    Wait this makes it pay to win!! No it doesn't, it still remains pay to progress faster. Since you can still get zen from dungeons and lockboxes it's no different than now. Just easier to understand and more content and fun to be had.
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User

    not sure why the store would not be relevant to this point yeah more people would want zen to buy things but you'd get a lot more people just buying zen to buy things too and with that exchange some of it for ad.

    It is only relevant in the sense that "The more desirable the items in the Zen store are, the worse the Zax trade imbalance gets."

    The goal is to make AD more valuable. There are four ways to make AD more valuable.

    1) Reduce the amount of AD entering the system.
    2) Increase the uses for AD.
    3) Increase the amount of Zen entering the system TO BUY AD (if it isn't used to buy AD it doesn't help)
    4) Reduce the uses for Zen

    If you make the Zen store better then the amount of people trying to obtain Zen with AD will go up thus devaluing AD which is the opposite of the goal. See how number 4 is REDUCE the uses of Zen...not increase. They are two sides of the same coin but they are inversely related. They are listed in supply, demand, supply, demand order to point out the inverse relationship.

    If you increase the demand of zen then you will decrease the value of AD. If you increase the value of AD then you will decrease the value of Zen.

    Forget the Zen Store. You are looking at it backwards. Focus on feedback regarding points 1 and 2. What can the devs do to reduce the supply of AD or increase the demand of AD with minimal or beneficial impacts to the players?

    so spending zen is a ad sink. I think people buy and hoard zen.

    No. No. It is only a sink when it is destroyed as plasticbat said. AD and Zen values are tied to each other but they ARE NOT the same. It's not a conversion. It's an exchange. AD has it's own value and how much Zen you can buy is based on the value of AD. They are intrinsically tied together but absolutely NOT the same. Zen sinks DO NOT sink AD. Zen sink s sink Zen while the AD merrily sits and deflates in value.
    Dear ambisinisterr

    We are sitting here talking and suggesting. Have you considered please that Devs would ignore or mostly ignore everything we are discussing here?

    Look what a back lash it was when leadership got AD nerf? Did it changed dev's direction? No

    Another back lash was at wards nerf outta bar store. Did devs looked? No

    Then about key changes. Was very much fuming. It gave a change on drops yes.

    As a result of that change Artifacts primary have devalued. Some literally into the ground.
    They become affordable for all, yes

    At start of Cradle Ultimate mark was like 900k-1million each. Now I did a search on AH for it and cheapest is 259000 - Cradle farming by 1% of top dogs have reduced it - hence it devalued.

    Chance for a drop that you can sell for AD is very low I won't go down that math.

    Many Many Many times people suggested to make wards to drop in dungeons/Skirmishes

    Yes, I got once x3 wards from Master of the Hunt.

    My buddy burned down 120 green wards and rank 12 bonding stone still failed to upgrade to rank 13

    How many master of the hunt he would need to run to get 120 wards from chest?
    100? 500? 1000?

    Add a few wards to every chest or at last to every second chest

    I am in this discussion yes but I expect that it will not change a thing or a change would be meager.
    It is just my opinion and it don't have to agree with others







  • icyclassicyclass Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    Forgive me for skipping seven pages of comments, but I'll throw in my two cents:

    I'm fine with this, and it probably won't much affect me (directly). The three characters I have are already more than I can play outside weekends.



    Someone said this is bad for new players; that is insane. If your advice to new players is to level at least 4 characters as fast as possible and grind dungeons for salvage until your eyes bleed, something's already gone very wrong.
    This is also pretty standard for F2P games: Free play gets you a certain distance each day (100k salvage) and if you want more it costs money (selling Zen on the exchange).

    And I'm happy to see Noworries' post about them checking the numbers on how many players this affects. Both that there is data behind the decision, that it's being shared (in very rough terms...), and it's more in keeping with my intuition that the alarmists'.
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User


    not sure why the store would not be relevant to this point yeah more people would want zen to buy things but you'd get a lot more people just buying zen to buy things too and with that exchange some of it for ad. it's another part of the same coin. if more people did buy zen with their ad to buy things in teh zen store that's effectively also an ad sink is it not?

    That's not quite how it works out. Those who directly buy Zen because of good items in the store, spend it on those items. Those who don't spend money on Zen and want things in the store trade their AD to get the Zen to buy the store items. The better the store/more items they want, the more AD they deposit in the ZAX, the higher the exchange rate or the higher the backlog if the exchange is capped.

    You can see this anytime there is a sale in the store. The ZAX doesn't go down from players buying store items and converting left over Zen to AD. It rises sharply from players wanting access to the store items and putting lots of AD into the ZAX.




    OK

    Let's assume big ZEN seller is in his guild.
    Change comes and his guild he loves goes dead. Do you really think that he would just move guild and keep buying ZEN? He might, or he might just quit.

    Zen buyers those who buy zen to sell in-game is because they want AD to buy things from AH that they can't buy directly in the store.
    That is how it is. Or he needs to upgrade his companion to legendary. That needs 1 mill So, he buys $20 worth of zen as example. Sells it and upgrades his companion


    What change might do that here be no zen at all for players to buy for AD. It is possible.

    Eighter zen sellers disgusted with change quit

    Or

    They buy ZEN and spend it themselves on stuff they want. How here is some zen coming to the system.
    If here be no ZEN coming to the system this show will grind to a halt.
    You can't seriously expect everyone to buy start buying hundreds of dollar. pound euro worth of zen daily just to progress?


    To kit out 1 char to 15000 item level now need god knows how much USD

    I wont even try guessing
    Player's previous post of $300 for x3 rank 14 gems should give you an idea.
    On top of that armour and weapons.
    If he gearing up character from 0 without running TONG for primal then he would need to buy Masterwork gears
    And masterwork weapons or new primal weapons from zen packs

    Manticore Raid vest - 800K
    Manticore raid cap 544k
    Manticore Raid braces - 569k
    Manticore raid gaiters - 589k
    Zealot's Gemmed shirt - 54k
    Berserker's pants - 27k
    Bronze wood raid ring - 520k each

    Bronze wood main hand for GWF 2million and 300k
    Bronze wood off-hand for GWF is not found soI put GF's off-hand at 2mill and 873k

    Infernal talisman about 24k
    Demogorgon's girdle of might 320k
    No Shard of Orcus's wand on sale so I put the next thing
    Fragmented key of stars -
    1mill and 70k

    Azure enchantment rank 13 - 834k each
    If to assume player wants Azure in utility and in all other slots
    18 slots per char at max refining.
    Plus 6 slots for 1 bonded companion if all 3 gear pieces on offence.

    So, if that player bought a chultan tiger - 2500 Zen for 1 weapon
    Then off-hand 2250 ZEN

    X3 Bonding runes rank 13 1 million and 295k each

    All total comes up in AD to 20million and 215k AD needed to buy all this.

    Add to this 4750 zen used for weapon and companion.

    I excluded refining points from this. T

    1 stack of blood ruby x99 cost 995. Lets assume he needs 10 stacks
    that be about 9mill
    May be 10 mill for refinery
    So, that is 30mill in AD

    To get this he needs to buy and sell 60000 ZEN
    At $600 total

    To establish a brand new geared chharacter Ready for all content - after unlock.
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    icyclass said:

    Forgive me for skipping seven pages of comments, but I'll throw in my two cents:

    I'm fine with this, and it probably won't much affect me (directly). The three characters I have are already more than I can play outside weekends.



    Someone said this is bad for new players; that is insane. If your advice to new players is to level at least 4 characters as fast as possible and grind dungeons for salvage until your eyes bleed, something's already gone very wrong.
    This is also pretty standard for F2P games: Free play gets you a certain distance each day (100k salvage) and if you want more it costs money (selling Zen on the exchange).

    And I'm happy to see Noworries' post about them checking the numbers on how many players this affects. Both that there is data behind the decision, that it's being shared (in very rough terms...), and it's more in keeping with my intuition that the alarmists'.

    ''This doesn't affect me'' so go ahead and do it.
    May be people in your guild feel differently?

  • tepes#1182 tepes Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    I'm not going to bother opining on how the proposed change will impact the economy as the internet analysts and forum economists seem to have it covered....

    I am curious as to other AD sinks. Besides the obvious fashion and transmute options, is there any reason we can't have a store to purchase +5 rings? I understand these are highly desirable items, but there are a lot of whales who wouldn't hesitate to spend 5MM (Possibly more) AD on the new Gravestalker Ring or the ring that drops from Fane.

    Is there any legitimate reason not to do this or something like this?

    Thanks.
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User

    Right now the PUG Epic is relatively fast only for Tank And Heal.
    With DPS can sit in here for 30+ and not get in

    I based my play style on supports so I usually get in fast in the Pug.

    When this change comes - if it remains unchanged and unaltered random Q would be dead.

    Or full of bots only. Or nearly dead.

    Epic PUG Q would reduce may be 50%.
    I can't say how much
    All current drops will sky rocket as people already said.

    People now farming as farming is the only way to afford progression. Farming stops or reduces and all drops will fly upwards. Already all shards of orcu's wand have dissapeared.

    Supply dry up with demand remaining about same by new players. Artifacts will move out of reach for most players.

    In Etos now you can only be sure of a 1005 guoranteed salvage drop in chest
    1 Item that salvages for 4000 AD
    4400 with VIP bonus
    6600 with invoke bonus

    All other bosses have a good chance of dropping you 1 period or a blue insignia then a salvageable loot

    I ran Etos once x5 times.
    Only 1 time second boss dropped me a salvageable loot. All other times it was peridot or blue insignia which I can't use because I got epic ones on that char any way.
    And a few peridots is basically same as no drop at all
    If you at last make those dungeons to drop salvage EVERY TIME EVERY BOSS so we don't have to do 16-17 Etos runs to get 100k cap every flaming day - it might go down better

    Else people will sit on their AD reserves till they are gone and then quit
    I must say I wanted to buy more zen for buying chest of power to help my guild and later Allience guilds
    But after seeing this I canceled that zen purchase because I see big uncertainty

    It is far bigger then anything that was before

    And with all them botters hopping about on a million accounts - they would keep flowing AD into ZAX that would keep prices inflated.

    What you want to do?
    Fix this or make honest people go botting?





  • ganzolokoganzoloko Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    So why would I run more dungeons after hit the 100K AD cap?, NOT AD, not real rewards other than more salvage which would be useless, drop rates for another items are really low, you're not solving any trouble with this, you're just creating another even bigger, what would motivate us to play anymore after the100K AD cap per account or even gear or use our alts?, we can run dungeons on alt characters for extra AD and enjoy dungeons at the same time but with this I would do my 100K AD with my main and then go to another game because I would be stuck for the day, why would I buy more character slots, what's the point of it anymore, Xbox/PS4 should be considered different than PC as we're under way different circumstances, we don't have those "problems" you said above, even if we had them AD cap isn't the solution, you need to work on things that motivate to players to run dungeons and content, not the other way around, if you do this I asure you'll see a dungeon runs decrease and activity decrease for sure, how can you compete with other games like Tera capping dungeons AD rewards and not replacing it with any other thing?, SMH
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    ganzoloko said:

    So why would I run more dungeons after hit the 100K AD cap?, NOT AD, not real rewards other than more salvage which would be useless, drop rates for another items are really low, you're not solving any trouble with this, you're just creating another even bigger, what would motivate us to play anymore after the100K AD cap per account or even gear or use our alts?, we can run dungeons on alt characters for extra AD and enjoy dungeons at the same time but with this I would do my 100K AD with my main and then go to another game because I would be stuck for the day, why would I buy more character slots, what's the point of it anymore, Xbox/PS4 should be considered different than PC as we're under way different circumstances, we don't have those "problems" you said above, even if we had them AD cap isn't the solution, you need to work on things that motivate to players to run dungeons and content, not the other way around, if you do this I asure you'll see a dungeon runs decrease and activity decrease for sure, how can you compete with other games like Tera capping dungeons AD rewards and not replacing it with any other thing?, SMH

    The main issue is not in the cap. The main issue is the AD bonus you get from RQ which will be account limit.
    You can keep getting rAD over 100K. You just can't refine them in one day.
    Run as many dungeon as you like then take a break for couple days and do regular no rAD earning campaign quests.
    The main issue is it will be harder for you to get more rAD to reach the 100K AD cap than now.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • omnioromnior Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    I have 3 "main characters" and 6 secondary characters that I've been running through the randoms to earn AD (maxing the 3 mains, and running at least random dungeon on the secondary characters). This account-wide cap of 100k rAD is going to be a body blow to me, and render useless all the character slots (25-ish total) I've been slowly expanding over the years. The problem with slapping a limit on the account-wide rAD earnings is that botters will not be significantly impacted by this limit. They will simply create more accounts, and continue their dirty business as usual. This rough AD limit will only affect players who legitimately spend a lot of time and effort in the attempt to be able to buy nice things from the Auction House. This is a poor business decision, and I hope you have the good sense to find another way to make life difficult for the botters and 3rd party intellectual property thieves. Towards that end, why not allow parties in the random queues to vote kick folks who accept starting the instance and then immediately go idle. I've seen a lot of that silly stuff lately, and it is irritating to have to wait for the timer for vote kicking to expire. If you make it easier for players to vote kick the botters immediately (or at least after a shorter period of time), I think the incidence of botting will decline.
  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Member Posts: 379 Arc User

    lol @plasticbat.... yes i saw it said per account not per character.... lol i was reffering to the alt army people that use their alts to get ad then refine it and use the zax to shuffle it over to their main character. this "new thing" would impact those people the most. once the limt was reached they would in turn resort to selling on the ah to make up for what they could not get thru their "old way", hece drivin up ah prices i think.

    They won't need to use the zax any more. They will be able to do 'direct' deposit. Reaching the cap will not be as easy.
    aslso saw that point lol but a person with say 20 or so alts would have no problem reaching the cap lol

    No. RQ rAD earning is limited account wide too. There is no point to run alt for RQ.
    wow late post lol thought i did this earlier but guess it didnt get posted like i thought i posted lol... anyways unless they removed salvage gear from chests in epic q's an epic rq's those alt army people could jus run ep q's an ep. rq's, salvage the gear n direct deposit into their mains accunt still having no prob reaching cap. didnt ness. mean the rq astrals u get on compltion of said rq with all characters now opposed to being acc. wide after this "new thing" is imp[lemented, unless they went the latter and drastically reduced the salvage values of said savagable gear gotten from chests at ends of ep rq's reg ep q's
  • linoge63linoge63 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 373 Arc User
    I recently returned and found the random que thing for AD earnings opp and felt...immediate enthusiasm. I expanded my team to 7 toons so that I can earn enough to get a 2nd toon to near end game power/ease, not tomorrow but in time that maintains enthusiasm.

    This will be a major nerf to that process so much so that im truly glad i have advanced enjoyment / play skills and toons in other games to return to.

    What I saw in these ques were lower level players getting so encredibly left behind in that karrun dungeon especially, by end game players that i felt something ought to be done. Unless players lke me are compelled to see them through, they simply get voted out when they fail to make it to the final boss in time.
    You want to make changes ...start here!

    Instead you added from what i can see even more hard to solo dungeons ( becuase thats exactly what lower level players must do to reach the higher level player whos always very impatiently waiting for them!! )

    So imo, both of the above changes is a bloody shame after what i saw as so many good steps since mod 6.
    Im already refocusing my gameplay attention

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    omnior said:

    I have 3 "main characters" and 6 secondary characters that I've been running through the randoms to earn AD (maxing the 3 mains, and running at least random dungeon on the secondary characters). This account-wide cap of 100k rAD is going to be a body blow to me, and render useless all the character slots (25-ish total) I've been slowly expanding over the years. The problem with slapping a limit on the account-wide rAD earnings is that botters will not be significantly impacted by this limit. They will simply create more accounts, and continue their dirty business as usual. This rough AD limit will only affect players who legitimately spend a lot of time and effort in the attempt to be able to buy nice things from the Auction House. This is a poor business decision, and I hope you have the good sense to find another way to make life difficult for the botters and 3rd party intellectual property thieves. Towards that end, why not allow parties in the random queues to vote kick folks who accept starting the instance and then immediately go idle. I've seen a lot of that silly stuff lately, and it is irritating to have to wait for the timer for vote kicking to expire. If you make it easier for players to vote kick the botters immediately (or at least after a shorter period of time), I think the incidence of botting will decline.

    This change has nothing to do with bot. Dev already said that.

    First it is important to note this isn't a change due to botters as many people have suggested in this thread, it is a change to improve the value of Astral Diamonds.

    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    linoge63 said:

    I recently returned and found the random que thing for AD earnings opp and felt...immediate enthusiasm. I expanded my team to 7 toons so that I can earn enough to get a 2nd toon to near end game power/ease, not tomorrow but in time that maintains enthusiasm.

    This will be a major nerf to that process so much so that im truly glad i have advanced enjoyment / play skills and toons in other games to return to.

    What I saw in these ques were lower level players getting so encredibly left behind in that karrun dungeon especially, by end game players that i felt something ought to be done. Unless players lke me are compelled to see them through, they simply get voted out when they fail to make it to the final boss in time.
    You want to make changes ...start here!

    Instead you added from what i can see even more hard to solo dungeons ( becuase thats exactly what lower level players must do to reach the higher level player whos always very impatiently waiting for them!! )

    So imo, both of the above changes is a bloody shame after what i saw as so many good steps since mod 6.
    Im already refocusing my gameplay attention

    There is also a change in RQ but it is in another thread that may address some of your concern regarding RQ.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator


    not sure why the store would not be relevant to this point yeah more people would want zen to buy things but you'd get a lot more people just buying zen to buy things too and with that exchange some of it for ad. it's another part of the same coin. if more people did buy zen with their ad to buy things in teh zen store that's effectively also an ad sink is it not?

    That's not quite how it works out. Those who directly buy Zen because of good items in the store, spend it on those items. Those who don't spend money on Zen and want things in the store trade their AD to get the Zen to buy the store items. The better the store/more items they want, the more AD they deposit in the ZAX, the higher the exchange rate or the higher the backlog if the exchange is capped.

    You can see this anytime there is a sale in the store. The ZAX doesn't go down from players buying store items and converting left over Zen to AD. It rises sharply from players wanting access to the store items and putting lots of AD into the ZAX.




    @noworries#8859, I'd say the ZAX problem is because people find buying wards from Zen store and posting them on AH to be better value for them than using ZAX to get their AD.
    FrozenFire
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    lol @plasticbat.... yes i saw it said per account not per character.... lol i was reffering to the alt army people that use their alts to get ad then refine it and use the zax to shuffle it over to their main character. this "new thing" would impact those people the most. once the limt was reached they would in turn resort to selling on the ah to make up for what they could not get thru their "old way", hece drivin up ah prices i think.

    They won't need to use the zax any more. They will be able to do 'direct' deposit. Reaching the cap will not be as easy.
    aslso saw that point lol but a person with say 20 or so alts would have no problem reaching the cap lol

    No. RQ rAD earning is limited account wide too. There is no point to run alt for RQ.
    wow late post lol thought i did this earlier but guess it didnt get posted like i thought i posted lol... anyways unless they removed salvage gear from chests in epic q's an epic rq's those alt army people could jus run ep q's an ep. rq's, salvage the gear n direct deposit into their mains accunt still having no prob reaching cap. didnt ness. mean the rq astrals u get on compltion of said rq with all characters now opposed to being acc. wide after this "new thing" is imp[lemented, unless they went the latter and drastically reduced the salvage values of said savagable gear gotten from chests at ends of ep rq's reg ep q's
    Why bother with alt army? One character can get everything and salvage everything itself. Yes, one will be able to reach cap as you said but it is just not as easy as now. If you need N dungeons to reach 100K rAD now, you need to do N+M dungeons in the future.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,633 Arc User

    First it is important to note this isn't a change due to botters as many people have suggested in this thread, it is a change to improve the value of Astral Diamonds.

    We could, as an example, raise the ZAX exchange cap to 1,000 on PC. It would rise up significantly to at least 750, but likely higher. This wouldn't make auction house items more affordable for players as the value of AD just decreased significantly and would drive up the auction house prices. This would require players to grind even more AD to buy what they did previously.

    Limiting the ZAX to 500, helps give some stability to the value of AD, but not fully as there is still a lot of RAD entering the economy each day and only so much leaving. Our changes are intended to both help bring the prices in the AH, and the ZAX down, as well as help newer players and those with less playtime earn a bit more AD to help them out.

    We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day. A player can always log in on days they aren't grinding out AD to refine extra RAD on their characters.

    Keeping the value in AD is an ongoing project for us and we will certainly be watching how this change impacts the ZAX and AH and can always make adjustments in the future to ease back the limits if that seems like the right choice.

    good post. we love numbers. I would really like it if for many of these kinds of changes you could share numbers with us. People like to see the rational behind things. I know I do. it certainly makes me want to put away my pitchfork anyway.

    Don't be too hasty putting away that pitchfork. You might get decaf by mistake tomorrow morning.
  • draconislupusdraconislupus Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    I had an interesting idea that might be a really good compromise to the issue of this thread. And actually be beneficial too.

    The issue of this thread is to determine what the AD refinement daily cap should be. Devs want 100k because not very many player hit that level every day. The community wants it higher because they perceive that that level is hit regularly.

    So how about a 100k soft cap. By soft cap I mean a beginning cap. If you start the game with your 2 free character slots you get 100k AD refining capability each day.

    But for every character you create after that, up to an extra 50 characters, you get a higher cap. I personally like 2k per extra character for a hard cap of 200k for someone with 52 characters. But I can understand a need for maybe 1k per extra character up to a hard cap of 150k.

    Thoughts?
This discussion has been closed.