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Official Feedback Thread: Astral Diamonds

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  • jcgd69#4058 jcgd69 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    It is evident that the only developers who want is to harm players who do not have the means to invest real money in the game and that those players are the most invest in this game to get the astral. In comparison with the players that invest real money that do not spend time game since it is easier to pass the card.

    It is a bad idea on your part to touch this aspect of the economy. Although my decision would be to stop playing this game and campaign against their new policies.

    By the way I remind you that they are not the only Free to Play or the only MMO on consoles.
  • draconislupusdraconislupus Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    > @noworries#8859 said:
    >
    > Over the last 2 years on PC, the net amount of refined AD in the game (all characters of all players) has increased 75%. The overall AD in the game has been increasing at a good pace since the game launched, and this is true of all platforms. Some transmute and other sinks added aren't going to be able to curb that alone. I won't go into too much detail on the numbers, but on average players as a whole, just on PC, are generating 1 billion brand new refined AD every 3 days. Each console on average is 4 days to generate 1 billion AD. That number already factors in all of the AD spent during that time as well. This is why there needs to be better generation limits in conjunction with AD sinks.

    I know that you say the net amount of refined AD has increased but my question is in regards to the 1 billion numbers.

    Are the +1 billion every 3 days on PC and +1 billion every 4 days on the consoles net increases in AD or is that gross increases?

    If it is gross increases what are the net increases? So that we can see how far apart the new AD generation is from the AD usage.

    Thanks a ton for those numbers though it does help to get a grip on the size of the problem.

    So ideally decreasing new AD refinement and increasing AD sinks of all sizes is needed.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,635 Arc User

    It is evident that the only developers who want is to harm players who do not have the means to invest real money in the game and that those players are the most invest in this game to get the astral. In comparison with the players that invest real money that do not spend time game since it is easier to pass the card.

    It is a bad idea on your part to touch this aspect of the economy. Although my decision would be to stop playing this game and campaign against their new policies.

    By the way I remind you that they are not the only Free to Play or the only MMO on consoles.

    This does not help those who spend real money in this game at all.
    AD value will be increased because of lower rAD production.
    Depend on how much rAD is reduced, there will be potential to make Zax to get below 500:1. The more people quit, the faster the Zax rate to drop.
    Hence, those spend money to do exchange of AD will get less AD.
    So, it won't help those who spend money.
    On the other hand, it will help those who already has AD.
    In short, if you have a lot of AD, you will be better off.
    If you plan to spend money to buy AD, you will get the short stick.
    If you need to make rAD without better mean, you will get the short stick.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • manoel#0653 manoel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Good change ... but not enough. It needs to be more drastic ...

    > AH does not deal more directly with AD, but with gold. the purchase will no longer be automatic; It will take a few hours to differents buyers make an additional offer of AD /seals /zen etc for certain item. offer declined is missed, no more "higher bid". if dont refused, the first buyer got your item. That is, an entire transaction depends on an active player dealing with another. maybe vips can have a offer bonus (being payed back or not to the game) or try sell to a declined offer for other seller

    > enchants/artefacts no longer "have chance"to being refined. Arriving at the necessary rp, an evolution is made. being "bis" depends on the time played.
    items such as coalescent has become "instant max rank", sold as a service to anyone who buys zen


    >Gold can be used for temporary powers / advantages. npcs offer in open zones a contract for a dc / cw / rogue / etc companion with gear score (like ddo). In dungeons, x% critical severity and y% recharge bonus, etc ...
    Post edited by manoel#0653 on
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    Just out of curiosity, what will be the AD cap now since AD can be shared account wide?
  • raven420xxraven420xx Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    If your looking for a good ad sink that many players would be interested in in my opinion is unbind scrolls that can make a character bound item become account bound until equipped then is character bound again make the scrolls like 200K ea ppl who like to play different toons will flock to this
  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day. A player can always log in on days they aren't grinding out AD to refine extra RAD on their characters.

    Does the devs team have data about who sells Legendary Mounts and Glorious Resurgence Legendary Pack?

    Because if most orange stuff comes from the players that you describe as "lower single digits", then those players will stop piling up AD, which means they will stop buying thousands of lockboxes and keys, which means they will stop opening thousands of lockboxes at once, which means less chances for them to get an orange reward, which means less chances for them to sell an orange item, which means less legendary stuff on the market, which means prices of legendary items goes up.

    They will not exactly "stop" doing those things (it's just a matter of speaking), but they will certainly do so less often. As far as i know saving creates investment, and those "1% richest players" are the ones that save most AD to spend on specific circumstances. The consequences of their spendings benefits both them (for what they want in lockboxes or masterwork or whatever) and the 99% not-so-rich-consumer players that get to buy/choose from a larger pool of legendary/orange goods.

    Of course my hypothesis can be wrong (not an specialist in economy here) or the data might say that most legendary/orange actually come from the 99% players not from the 1% wealthy as i predicted.

    Anyway, even if my hypothesis is correct i understand the need to control the influx of AD because of the ZAX backlog, i just don't think 100k is a reasonable cap. Something between 200k and 300k looks more of a middle-term solution between most of the player base (that earn less than 100k) and the ones that work their HAMSTER off for huge amounts of AD gain.

    Another suggestion is to stablish a WEEKLY cap instead of a daily one, so people don't feel forced to play everyday, 1.5 million would be the equivalent of 214k per day. One last suggestion is to keep the possibility of Bonus AD for the first random queue for each character, because if limited to 1 per account it will be hard to reach the cap (even if the cap is low like 100k).

    EDIT: keeping the Bonus AD from RED on each character also creates incentive to run on multiple toons, making the queue system more dynamic.

    EDIT 2: just occurred to me that even if most selling of legendary/orange things comes from the wealthiest players, their AD income might come more from AH (selling MW professions and lockboxes loot) than from rAD.
    Post edited by vincentr6669 on
  • janderxjanderx Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    the harder you grip our balls, the faster we will get out of game, random q is a pain of waiting for epics, wasting time, just to get a few ad, i've been playing since may 2013, a few days after launching the game, and just last year i got instructed by my guild on how the game really has to be played to improve an upgrade, before that was a very hard and solitary game (not to say shameful since everybody was bis or almost and i was like a noob with way outdated and downgraded equipment), then u take ad from leadership, then u nerf and nerf, then u put the random q, now this?! people that invested big bucks will go on because was an investment, but people that never invest or invest occasionally, will withdraw from the game, i know you may have some business brainiac there that tells you how to run the business, but why stick to this models that punish players to squish money instead of making it more appealing to old and new players to get them to invest money in the game? haven't you learnt nothing from other mmos that were hot and then vanished? how much will you push the players?

    and why this changes r always announced and then the responsible vanish? you throw the stone and don't even take the time to answer the comments? to try and justify or sell the changes? to calm the waters? and then what? we have to wait 6 to 12 months before you try to correct your screw ups while HAMSTER up even more? you have community managers for what? streaming showing us how is a character without limitations and tweeting and...not even taking the time to answer every single complain and trying to justify or debate your modifications? well then hire me, i could certainly use whatever money you are paying them, and i will take the time to answer and try to sell whatever HAMSTER change you want to do

    but seriously, why don't you you just stop the HAMSTER and implement whatever player killing plan you have now and let's be done with it, so we can finally c how many people stays and takes the HAMSTER and how many leave once and for all, and we ca call it on a game that is loosing the fun, nerfing by nerfing and crippling change, by crippling change!
  • alleykatealleykate Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    I actually like this change. I would only go over this limit on weekends with my 10 characters. If I was to suggest anything, how about not counting the bonus AD you get from invoking in the 100 refining limit/day.

    One day, many years ago (almost 5 of them), the refining cap was 24k per day per character, everything was very expensive on the ah. The only way then to buy armour as a new player was off the auction house for a big sum or waited for it to drop (and you prayed you did not get kicked for hitting the need button). A few years later it then got upped to 36k per day per character, armour became available by seals and life is way better. You can even hunt for some of your gear. Life is not going to get bad again, more dungeons are going to drop more seals for gear so smile peoples and grab your green stuff for rp.
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  • titi227titi227 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Personally I wouldn't mind the daily cap (again, i fully understand the others that do). The first run bonus on only 1 character does not bother me much either, because running randoms on my 5 different characters is a nasty chore. But, if you take that away and force me to "run salvage", which equals to finding a group and running the same dungeon 10 times. I don't think i will stick around for long, as i don't find that more sane than being forced to run alts. And yes, i'm saying being forced, because you see, I need to earn the diamonds because, even though i have VIP, upgrades cost a ton and my 11k main has zero chances to improve without loads of AD.

    Again, I welcome the changes, but with lots of support. Give us more varied ways to get RAD when playing the game. Bring some of those RAD's as quest rewards, for example. Give RAD for epic trial rewards, campaign main dailies, heroic events dailies etc. Reward us for playing different content instead for mindlessly farming the same dungeon with the same team, or running undergeared alts just for the random daily, like on a HAMSTER :) wheel.
  • diotelpdiotelp Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    Good changes imo, next they need to remove coal wards from invokes and put em as a rare drop somewhere, BB alt armies
  • mirlegrismirlegris Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    Just add a zenmarket item for upgrading temporary the daily account cap and nerf what you want.
    Game is already dead, just let us spend our zens and AD before MTG game is out.
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    Overall, I think this is a positive change, though a little jagged and may be rough on people for a while. Personally, I'm surprised this didn't happen a long time ago. I've always thought it was strange having to have an alt army to feed your main, instead of using your main to feed your alts. BtA gear from recent mods has been a nice step in that direction and this is another.

    I think you've been doing a good job on here explaining your reasoning and position, even if it may be a bit hard to wrap the old noodle around the finer points for some. I do have a couple criticisms though:

    First, this is a sudden and rather drastic change. This is something you guys do frequently and causes a lot of the kneejerk raging that keeps happening. I know there's something to be said for just ripping the bandage off, but it still hurts. I think you would fair a lot better with the community if you would do more incremental changes. You can get people used to the idea without bashing them over the head with it.

    Like with this, you could start with a 200k limit just to let everyone know this is happening, but it would be much more palatable and affect far fewer people. Then later drop it to 150K. Sure there'd be grumbling, but it wouldn't be very shocking. After that, if it still seems needed, you could drop it to 100k. Incremental changes like this would also create far less chaos in the market, playstyles, character capabilities, etc., depending on the nature of the change.

    Another example was the Bonding nerf. I agreed that it was needed, but it would have gone over so much better if they were dropped by about 25% at first, then some time later dropped to where they are now.

    Second, moving to 100k account refining limit AND 1/tier/account/day random queue AD at the same time seems a bit harsh. I'm personally more bothered by the account based RQ bonuses myself. It doesn't seem like you really need both. Even getting to 100k in a day would be a slog with the RQ changes, but with a 100k cap if you get to it faster or slower it's still capped. Both seem redundant.
  • seventaru#1314 seventaru Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    > @pterias said:
    > Overall, I think this is a positive change, though a little jagged and may be rough on people for a while. Personally, I'm surprised this didn't happen a long time ago. I've always thought it was strange having to have an alt army to feed your main, instead of using your main to feed your alts. BtA gear from recent mods has been a nice step in that direction and this is another.
    >
    > I think you've been doing a good job on here explaining your reasoning and position, even if it may be a bit hard to wrap the old noodle around the finer points for some. I do have a couple criticisms though:
    >
    > First, this is a sudden and rather drastic change. This is something you guys do frequently and causes a lot of the kneejerk raging that keeps happening. I know there's something to be said for just ripping the bandage off, but it still hurts. I think you would fair a lot better with the community if you would do more incremental changes. You can get people used to the idea without bashing them over the head with it.
    >
    > Like with this, you could start with a 200k limit just to let everyone know this is happening, but it would be much more palatable and affect far fewer people. Then later drop it to 150K. Sure there'd be grumbling, but it wouldn't be very shocking. After that, if it still seems needed, you could drop it to 100k. Incremental changes like this would also create far less chaos in the market, playstyles, character capabilities, etc., depending on the nature of the change.
    >
    > Another example was the Bonding nerf. I agreed that it was needed, but it would have gone over so much better if they were dropped by about 25% at first, then some time later dropped to where they are now.
    >
    > Second, moving to 100k account refining limit AND 1/tier/account/day random queue AD at the same time seems a bit harsh. I'm personally more bothered by the account based RQ bonuses myself. It doesn't seem like you really need both. Even getting to 100k in a day would be a slog with the RQ changes, but with a 100k cap if you get to it faster or slower it's still capped. Both seem redundant.

    I couldn't agree more with this, very well said.

    I actually enjoy running random on some of my alts why are we losing the daily bonus if the cap is in place?
  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    diotelp said:

    Good changes imo, next they need to remove coal wards from invokes and put em as a rare drop somewhere, BB alt armies

    Coal wards are already a drop, got one in msp and a friend got one in fbi.
    Remove coal wards from invokes, remove Pres wards from invokes, remove rAD bonus from invoke even and why not even remove invoke while you're at it, because if you want to fully say "BB alt armies" thats what you should suggest.
  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    pterias said:

    Overall, I think this is a positive change, though a little jagged and may be rough on people for a while. Personally, I'm surprised this didn't happen a long time ago. I've always thought it was strange having to have an alt army to feed your main, instead of using your main to feed your alts. BtA gear from recent mods has been a nice step in that direction and this is another.

    I think you've been doing a good job on here explaining your reasoning and position, even if it may be a bit hard to wrap the old noodle around the finer points for some. I do have a couple criticisms though:

    First, this is a sudden and rather drastic change. This is something you guys do frequently and causes a lot of the kneejerk raging that keeps happening. I know there's something to be said for just ripping the bandage off, but it still hurts. I think you would fair a lot better with the community if you would do more incremental changes. You can get people used to the idea without bashing them over the head with it.

    Like with this, you could start with a 200k limit just to let everyone know this is happening, but it would be much more palatable and affect far fewer people. Then later drop it to 150K. Sure there'd be grumbling, but it wouldn't be very shocking. After that, if it still seems needed, you could drop it to 100k. Incremental changes like this would also create far less chaos in the market, playstyles, character capabilities, etc., depending on the nature of the change.

    Another example was the Bonding nerf. I agreed that it was needed, but it would have gone over so much better if they were dropped by about 25% at first, then some time later dropped to where they are now.

    Second, moving to 100k account refining limit AND 1/tier/account/day random queue AD at the same time seems a bit harsh. I'm personally more bothered by the account based RQ bonuses myself. It doesn't seem like you really need both. Even getting to 100k in a day would be a slog with the RQ changes, but with a 100k cap if you get to it faster or slower it's still capped. Both seem redundant.

    I kind of agree and second this, we all know that a sudden drastic harsh diet is just only going to make you gain more weight faster in the long term, which makes the diet a moot point :neutral:
  • undepartedundeparted Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    > @unbarb said:
    > DO NOT LIMIT AN ACCOUNT TO 100K REFINEMENT PER DAY. That is unacceptable. That is a DESTRUCTIVE NERF. I'm already refining 288,000K a day on my account. 8 toons times 36K a day equals 288,000 a day. DON'T DO IT, and please don't treat us like fools and advertise it like some kind of benefit to players. It is destructive. There is NO POINT in bringing down the Daily Account Refinement amounts like this. And its offensive that you would present this like a positive when it is a complete negative.
    >
    >
    > The way 1 player is able to make 288k per day because he has 8 characters is destructive, it's like cheating.
    > That's why we have a 20.000.000 AD backlog in pc atm
    >
    > I agree withe the 100k limit per day

    How is it cheating??? He puts in the time and work to make this.
  • wintermurlocwintermurloc Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    This should have been done a long time ago..minimal backlash atleast. Now revamp that god awful zen store. If you want ppl to spend money to get zen then that store is in dire need of restoration.
    Also I read someone mentioned about a weekly ad refining limit compared to daily. I think that's an awesome idea. Btw Ty from liberating us from the concept of moving ad across toons through the Zax
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    unbarb said:

    faredawg1 said:

    DO NOT LIMIT AN ACCOUNT TO 100K REFINEMENT PER DAY. That is unacceptable. That is a DESTRUCTIVE NERF. I'm already refining 288,000K a day on my account. 8 toons times 36K a day equals 288,000 a day. DON'T DO IT, and please don't treat us like fools and advertise it like some kind of benefit to players. It is destructive. There is NO POINT in bringing down the Daily Account Refinement amounts like this. And its offensive that you would present this like a positive when it is a complete negative.


    The way 1 player is able to make 288k per day because he has 8 characters is destructive, it's like cheating.
    That's why we have a 20.000.000 AD backlog in pc atm

    I agree withe the 100k limit per day
    He makes so much much per day because things to advance cost millions.
    If you don't make this much you basically can't [progress to the level you be let into Tong.
    Now I see even for etos they want 15k+
  • undepartedundeparted Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    Anyway, doesn’t matter anymore. A buddy figured out how we make the same every day in less time. So bring it on. ^^
  • jcgd69#4058 jcgd69 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    the only solution that is possible is that those who produce the AD withdraw from the game and the same game I have to create this AD to meet the needs of other players. In short a bad economic decision (they look like a third world country)
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    diotelp said:

    Good changes imo, next they need to remove coal wards from invokes and put em as a rare drop somewhere, BB alt armies

    Coal wards from invoke is already super rare.
    You wanna make it even more rare?
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User

    > @unbarb said:

    > DO NOT LIMIT AN ACCOUNT TO 100K REFINEMENT PER DAY. That is unacceptable. That is a DESTRUCTIVE NERF. I'm already refining 288,000K a day on my account. 8 toons times 36K a day equals 288,000 a day. DON'T DO IT, and please don't treat us like fools and advertise it like some kind of benefit to players. It is destructive. There is NO POINT in bringing down the Daily Account Refinement amounts like this. And its offensive that you would present this like a positive when it is a complete negative.

    >

    >

    > The way 1 player is able to make 288k per day because he has 8 characters is destructive, it's like cheating.

    > That's why we have a 20.000.000 AD backlog in pc atm

    >

    > I agree withe the 100k limit per day



    How is it cheating??? He puts in the time and work to make this.

    It is not cheating. I do same thing, but not on that scale. I run dungeons to enjoy them and AD farm I don't go do it 24/7
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    eolee said:

    diotelp said:

    Good changes imo, next they need to remove coal wards from invokes and put em as a rare drop somewhere, BB alt armies

    Coal wards are already a drop, got one in msp and a friend got one in fbi.
    Remove coal wards from invokes, remove Pres wards from invokes, remove rAD bonus from invoke even and why not even remove invoke while you're at it, because if you want to fully say "BB alt armies" thats what you should suggest.
    Where you suggest to get those then?
    Run 100 FBI and hope 1 coal wards drops?
  • jcgd69#4058 jcgd69 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    It is worrisome as some players take things. as they only praise decisions that they feel can benefit them without thinking about the consequences that this can bring. that they will think when in some moment the developers tell you how many dungeons you can do per day or that they order you what kind of activities you can do or even better than you can get rewards and what not. but of course this is for the good of the player and the game and you will accept it because of course if they say it is fine
  • ivansinkovic1ivansinkovic1 Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    I haven't seen this mentioned before, but this is also a BIG hit for non-maxed guilds.
    A lot of buildings require AD donations. Only way we can get it without the real AD is from leadership, and that's 3 crates every 6 hours.
    You mostly don't have maxed players in those guilds, or players with "leadership armies".
    Before, there were AD vouchers, but now they mysteriously disappeared (no patch notes or anything, just stopped dropping).
    Siege of Neverwinter used to be an excelent event that helps people level up their guilds as it dropped two of the most needed vouchers (AD and Gems), and now that AD vouchers stopped dropping, and gems vouchers seem like they drop more rarely, this event becomes less and less useful (there aren't any new additions, only thing remotely useful from there is the siegebreaker griffin).

    @noworries#8859 Can you tell us anything about this aspect of AD nerf?! (check out the SH prices, some of the buildings on higher levels need >2 million AD per level... or as you'd call it 20 days of farming with 1 character without spending a bit to upgrade yourself.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    My own 2 cents on this. Please know that the statements in this comment are based on my own opinions and not the views of anyone at Cryptic and in no way "official". I know for a fact that the devs are reading this thread. But I also doubt that they will change their minds on these changes. The fact is, they have all the data and numbers. The players may think they know, but there is no way a single person who is just playing the game and has no way to access the data that Cryptic has would even be able to guess at how much rAD the average player generates a day.

    To say that they are ignoring this thread is a misnomer. They are not ignoring anything. They are reading it all. But they are simply choosing what they feel is the best course of action for the overall economy of the game. I can guarantee that if they looked into the accounts of most of the players that are complaining loudly against these changes, the majority of those players are not hitting 100k rAD daily with any sort of consistency, and certainly not the majority of the time. And as pointed out, if you are only hitting those numbers on certain days, you can just refine the AD on the days that you don't. This change is GOOD. It will help. Basic MMO economy knowledge shows that.
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  • themule#2469 themule Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    One simple rule: the harder or the more inconvenient you make for regular players to produce ADs, the more valueable they become for botters. Botters don't feel the inconvenience of running multiple accounts, and most likely, they're already doing it.

    They sit on huge piles of ADs already. They have little or no trouble in boostrapping a new account with new bot alts. We see them every day in random dungeons, and they are all the same, same low level, same cheap equip.

    Not to mention, even if this change did make their life harder (which it doesn't), their stash of ADs, 100kk per char, is going to be more and more valueable as the time passes, since ADs become harder to get.

    Remember, everytime you make harder for regular players to make ADs, a botter smiles.

    You want less ADs injected into the game per day? Make content less scriptable. Rework all dungeons to have "traps" for bots, that are easy for players to avoid, but not easily scriptable. Like a floating rock you need to jump onto, but that appears at a random positions. Or simpler versions of traps in tong. Nothing can be 100% bot-proof, but that's a start. Start making their life harder, not ours. You'll see that the AD daily flux is greatly reduced.


    Wow, the first comment that does say " wow gz guys, 100k per account is a great idea, keep doing it haha ! " . While I do agree with you, seems like they have a hard time scripting stuff as floating rocks and trap checks. Maybe add a capcha check at the start of the dungeon? heh.On my second note, to add, let's imagine that accounts made by botters have currently 2 chars onm them, since I can bet my metal they would not buy zen to get more acct slots. So... now they can refine 72k ad daily, and Cryptic gives them a 100k cap per account. What?

    *** sorry for the double post, realized as I clicked what I did...
    I think you answered to the wrong comment. It's quite clear I'm against the change. 100k per account is a bad idea, and I described why so.

    I doubt it's hard to code some stuff that behaves unpredictably. Just imagine a room with 3 doors, one is marked as the right one the other two send you somewhere back (at some random campfire). Real players have no problem in choosing the right door. Even if they make a mistake, they can easily progress. A scripted bot would fail badly. And that's just an example.
  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User

    eolee said:

    diotelp said:

    Good changes imo, next they need to remove coal wards from invokes and put em as a rare drop somewhere, BB alt armies

    Coal wards are already a drop, got one in msp and a friend got one in fbi.
    Remove coal wards from invokes, remove Pres wards from invokes, remove rAD bonus from invoke even and why not even remove invoke while you're at it, because if you want to fully say "BB alt armies" thats what you should suggest.
    Where you suggest to get those then?
    Run 100 FBI and hope 1 coal wards drops?
    please note i said "you should suggest" and not "i would suggest".
This discussion has been closed.