Oddly, during the long period of criticising Random Queues, one of the main arguments thrown back from both devs and players was "Hey, more RAD... and Faster!". So now, with this cap, I will run one of each RQ across my entire account and use the one with the highest stack of bonus RAD from invoking. Since I have 8 toons, this means I just need to earn about 70k per day. And a fat wedge of that will come from running one toon a day through their weeklies. This will reduce the number of Random queues I run by about 75-80%.
Since the other main argument in support of RQ was that it would encourage queues to pop faster, can I now assume that with the reduced requirement to run said queues on multiple toons due to the drop in RAD rewards... that Random Queues has, in fact, been an abject failure?
9
soditalloverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 88Arc User
I'm sorry this is just one step too far when the news hit the guild we had mixed feeling but as a whole we weren't too upset by the changes well that was until we heard the other part of the changes, why if you have set a cap per account have you taken the extra steps to limit the number of daily rewards from random que's. you have already set the cap at 100k anything over this is just a waste of time to grind, now you have almost eliminated ad generated from playing current content can u start to re-add the removed sources of ad like from the professions.
Everyone complaining about the AD change should realize that this will bring down the average cost of everything on the AH too, after a bit of lead time.
This is definitely a good first step towards reducing the backlog.
I do wonder how they plan to prevent multi-accounting though.
They brought in RED to nerf ad and promote Zen purchase that backfired as predicted and not they do this. This will hurt everyone even players with 1 toon in long run.
To prevent ZAX getting so high do what worked with 2X rp remove 40% zen events permanently
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Unpopular opinion as I see, but this does not seem to restrain dedicated farmers. Just mostly those who are not really putting effort to find out ways to earn currency except the trivial.
-Every salvageable gear as surplus gives 162 GM, 10 piece is roughly a chart, which can contain (with double prof. event or double prof guild bonus) ~45k AD of value.
-GM giving items, like shards, in any other gainable form plays a big role in the game for the same reason and a lot of them can be stacked up in space-friendly way til double GM event (and then, using the charts in double prof). So alts will have use in the future, as banks.
-Refine stone farming is still an option, with the option of grinding out sup. enchanting stones in Dread ring lairs.
Now, the actual problem is not that it will negatively affect farmers, but the lack of casually used consumable MW item in the new mod kind of progresses down the prices of these prof. items in the long term and the lack of artifact gear change will bring down the price of refinement stones and marks and THAT will negatively affect farmers, who does not get an exact value of their work now, but something that can eventually flood out the market.
Any plan on doing something on behalf of giving players more incentive to sink refine point, components and GM? @noworries#8859
Unpopular opinion as I see, but this does not seem to restrain dedicated farmers. Just mostly those who are not really putting effort to find out ways to earn currency except the trivial.
-Every salvageable gear as surplus gives 162 GM, 10 piece is roughly a chart, which can contain (with double prof. event or double prof guild bonus) ~45k AD of value.
-GM giving items, like shards, in any other gainable form plays a big role in the game for the same reason and a lot of them can be stacked up in space-friendly way til double GM event (and then, using the charts in double prof). So alts will have use in the future, as banks.
-Refine stone farming is still an option, with the option of grinding out sup. enchanting stones in Dread ring lairs.
Now, the actual problem is not that it will negatively affect farmers, but the lack of casually used consumable MW item in the new mod kind of progresses down the prices of these prof. items in the long term and the lack of artifact gear change will bring down the price of refinement stones and marks and THAT will negatively affect farmers, who does not get an exact value of their work now, but something that can eventually flood out the market.
Any plan on doing something on behalf of giving players more incentive to sink refine point, components and GM? @noworries#8859
Edit: Clarifications.
Less ad in game less people buy your stuff in ah
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Sounds like another quick cash grab by Cryptic, another way to get players to buy Zen. Oh well with all the crying of how players will leave no one will go anywhere and the devs know it. We can complain, complain, and complain but still play the game. Cryptic will continue to make changes to AD until it sits in the Zen market next Coal Wards.
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (PC) Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1) Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
I'm at a point where 100k/day AD is more than enough for the time I have available to game, and when I do have some extra time, and ring up some extra RAD, I'm sure it'll get covered off by days I don't have time to do much of anything. And I don't think I'm alone in this situation. A previous poster mentioned "people who burn through 50 Legendary keys a day in ToNG" - and I'd suggest they are an extreme outlier as at a (very generous) 15min. / run, still puts them at 12+ hours in there. Most people can squeeze in 2-6 hours a night. Enough to cap to 36k without much problem, and I'm sure 100k at the high end of that time - but beyond that? I don't honestly think you'll be seeing masses of players noticing the change.
To disregard the (as you see it) "hardcore" players becuase you feel there are mostly casual players, is the exact reason why MMO's and grind based games die. When you cater to the players that DONT play the game that much, then the players who WANT to play the game a ton CANT. Its the hardcore players that have kept the game alive for 4 years and when you disregard that FACT, you might as well spit in the face and say HAMSTER you.
Unpopular opinion as I see, but this does not seem to restrain dedicated farmers. Just mostly those who are not really putting effort to find out ways to earn currency except the trivial.
-Every salvageable gear as surplus gives 162 GM, 10 piece is roughly a chart, which can contain (with double prof. event or double prof guild bonus) ~45k AD of value.
-GM giving items, like shards, in any other gainable form plays a big role in the game for the same reason and a lot of them can be stacked up in space-friendly way til double GM event (and then, using the charts in double prof). So alts will have use in the future, as banks.
-Refine stone farming is still an option, with the option of grinding out sup. enchanting stones in Dread ring lairs.
Now, the actual problem is not that it will negatively affect farmers, but the lack of casually used consumable MW item in the new mod kind of progresses down the prices of these prof. items in the long term and the lack of artifact gear change will bring down the price of refinement stones and marks and THAT will negatively affect farmers, who does not get an exact value of their work now, but something that can eventually flood out the market.
Any plan on doing something on behalf of giving players more incentive to sink refine point, components and GM? @noworries#8859
Edit: Clarifications.
Less ad in game less people buy your stuff in ah
That's only the half of the equation. Because there might be less AD to buy things in general, but that only affect "exclusive" items, like UES or artifacts, not common items, like refine stones or ench. stones. If you have less money, but you still have the time to farm, you are not in need to buy those items, because you can get it. But if you don't need it, you going to farm it anyway and sell on the market. And the latter will bring down the price.
Note that the term less AD is highly misleading in an economy where currency gets printed by everyone and only the devs have idea if the sum currency in the game are rising or lowering. But that's only my nitpicking.
> @dagambit said: > Sounds like another quick cash grab by Cryptic, another way to get players to buy Zen. Oh well with all the crying of how players will leave no one will go anywhere and the devs know it. We can complain, complain, and complain but still play the game. Cryptic will continue to make changes to AD until it sits in the Zen market next Coal Wards.
I promise you that a large part of the game will leave if this goes live on pc. Some players on Xbox might not even wait for it to come to consoles.
But you are right. Yet again 100% another cash grab...
"Players will leave Neverwinter if this happens" -Literally everyone, on every even remotely negative change, in every mod for the last 2 years. Yet HAMSTER hasn't changed one bit.
I know quite a few people who "quit" over the bonding changes but are still here, still playing, still posting on the forums daily. The game survived all that, and will survive this too. I understand the reasons for this change and I support it fully.
We like to shake our heads in amusement as you try to justify every single change for the worst and play along with the devs attempted spins at shaping the B.S. into a positive. It's frankly far more entertaining than the game.
And the optimists among those who quit still keep in touch to see if the devs can get a grip on their trainwreck and somehow make the game better.
So here I am, checking the forums to see if it's worth coming back and...
Lol. Nope.
But by all means, do give the devs your feedback, and say this is a bad thing, I am sure they pay close attention and will correct it like they did after the backlash from stuff like random queues was so universally negative.
Everyone complaining about the AD change should realize that this will bring down the average cost of everything on the AH too, after a bit of lead time.
This is definitely a good first step towards reducing the backlog.
I do wonder how they plan to prevent multi-accounting though.
They brought in RED to nerf ad and promote Zen purchase that backfired as predicted and not they do this. This will hurt everyone even players with 1 toon in long run.
To prevent ZAX getting so high do what worked with 2X rp remove 40% zen events permanently
that didnt "fix" the saving stuff up effect when approching 2x rp, now we just save QM bags, dungeon keys, and lockbox packs. removing the 40% sale will only make the event table even duller then it already is
0
viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
The question to ask is why does Cryptic care about the amount of AD in the game?
Because AD can be converted to Zen.
The Zen -> AD conversion is probably more important because the limit will mean people who are likely to want things now will spend money to get Zen to sell for AD as they can no longer make enough AD per day to get things quickly otherwise.
As a plan to make people buy more Zen this is not bad,.
You mean force people to buy ZEN. Some guy before said he spent $300 on x3 rank 14 bondings. Many people got family to feed here. They will not buy bomdings at this price
2
viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Let me begin by saying that, first, I play on XB and second, I agree that the acquisition of RAD needs balancing.
Now let me put a couple of things into perspective, points that a few people seem to be missing. (I will be using simile, metaphor, analogy, and a degree of sarcasm in so doing...)
First, the notion that a 100'000 RAD:AD will somehow penalise botters. Well, yes... it will, but it will do exactly the same to non botters. When punitive measures are put in place to deal with the effect rather than cause, it will affect all means of the cause. For instance, I imagine that if John Maclaine had been a Cryptic Developer rather than an NYPD Detective, rather than picking off Hans Gruber's team one by one, he would have called in a tactical nuclear strike to vaporise Nakatomi Plaza thereby killing all the terrorists with one massive sweeping display of ill thought through brute force. Obviously, along with all the hostages, there would be thousands of unwitting civilian casualties, but hey... if the mission goal is simply "Stop the terrorists." then Job Done.
Until some form of Captcha-esque verification of live interaction can be introduced for reward claims, any punitive measure will affect botters and proper players in equal measure. Please bear this in mind before applying scatter gun solutions.
Second, the idea that this will only affect those greedy rich HAMSTER with millions of alts. No... just NO. This example uses actual mathematics.
If you have never played more than your original first character, then this proposed change is Chocolate Christmas with a solid gold cherry on the top. Your capacity to convert RAD will be raised by 177% Congratulations. If you chose to run that first free alt, (but no more than that), then you too have an increase... only 38%, but still... CHEERS.
However, if you have taken ANY amount of Zen and purchased any form of character slot... even if you are running a third character only.. then this change negatively impacts YOU. Three toons sees a reduction of roughly 7.5% Four toons is over 30% reduction. Five... 45% And if you have six its over 50%. By the time you hit 50 characters that reduction in potential RAD conversion capacity is roughly 95%
So yes, of course it impacts players more, the more characters they have, because it is, quite literally, a penalty that corresponds DIRECTLY to how much you have spent purchasing character slots. But no one should kid themselves that it doesn't impact everyone who has three or more characters.
Now, when we complained about how negatively the Random Queue would impact the game much of the argument was subjective and anecdotal. Not so with this.
It is demonstrably biased toward negatively impacting those who have invested the most cash/time and effort into buying more character slots on a sliding scale. More spent. More Hurt.
This is a punitive measure that you feel the need to implement, because no one thought "what will players DO with all those character slots we are selling them?" in the first instance.
They would use those character slots as zombie farmers, and inert bankers....
The Devs would have realised this had they ever read the book "Of Course Thats What They Would Do" by the famous author, "ANYONE who has ever participated in an MMORPG"
So, sure, there's too much AD in the game, and something needs to be done... But please... have a think about that Cap. It should at the VERY LEAST not apply for the first two additional, (paid-for) character slots.
Oh, and don't announce HAMSTER like this on the day you run a double Seals event on XBox. It makes you look like a bunch complete bloody amateurs. "Too much RAD in the game.... Here... have some free salvage."
Its stuff like that, that often makes me wonder if the people behind this game could find their own HAMSTER with both hands and a map.
It does NOT inspire confidence that you have a grip on the situation.
You forgotten that things in game cost millions Without army of alts you could never grind up most of them - without buying ZEN.
3
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
The 100k limit does not bother me personally...I may exceed that on weekends, but not on workdays, so personally I'm fine.
The limit will not affect botters..they will just use more accounts.
The players that will be affected are primarily F2P players who max out the current cap on multiple alts per day...and that's, what 10% of the players.
I consider that a bit too high, and I wonder how high the daily limit would have to be to only affect like 2-3% of the players.
The only way this will not drive players away is if the AD cap is at least 200k.
100k for one day is enough to get a Superior Mark of Potency, not enough to even buy x5 legendary dragon keys to run your bugged dungeons that never drop anything of value for you to even make any AD.
I was going to spend a bit on the summer fest but at this point im just waiting for this to go live so I can quit. This is a change to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over the die hard players and encourage people to buy zen, which will not be the case. This change will not hurt the players with 50+mill (very few) since they will continue to make loads of AD off mastercrafting but will the average player who has to salvage daily to get keys, smops, scrolls, etc. I'd suggest not spending a dime on this game until they show the players they care even a spec about us.
2
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
Put coal and preservation wards on Wondorous Bazaar and you will see the ZAX going down.
I think most of the players dont hit 100k day but I understand people who do.
I really feel terrible for new players with these changes.. I had a friend start this game not that long ago and I explained all the ways he could make AD for free. He ended up making 10 characters and ran random dungeons on each and salvaging what he could for each character every day and was starting to get more and more into the game and getting bigger and bigger.. Now new players if all these changes go into effect are essentially screwed unless they open their wallets. As a free player, I really cant tolerate these changes, I was happy grinding marks in dread ring lairs early on and making decent ad off that plus salvage etc moved on to other things and markets.. but I am afraid this is going to plunge this game into a death cycle that it will not escape and I just dont understand how thats a sounds financial move..
The limit of 100k AD is destructive to the game. If after the mod14, the game will be unplayable, my friends and I will change game. I believe that many will change game.
If everything should be used to reduce the botters, they will simply make more accounts.
3
viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
This change would ONLY go through more or less fine if prices will adjust to new AD earnings and fast If they don't adjust or people stop selling goods You know what I mean.
This will not hurt rich ppl. Rich ppl don't even run stuff, they sit around and play with the auction for an hour every day. Ppl with lots of ad support the change, they don't think its bad cus they got lots of diamonds to start with so now their diamonds are worth more.
Just another hour to go.
0
kalimoucho44Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 28Arc User
My problem with that cap is :
I salvage the rings from guild's members donations with 6 of my alts (VIP) so the cap is quickly done.
Keep my main to salvage his own AD.
the issue for me is that the cap will slow down the progression of my guild. We buy the fondation pack from zen market or AH to give a little boost to the mimic.
The goal of the last several mods has been to kill the free to play aspect of the game. I would venture to bet that the vast majority of the current dev team believes that you have to spend money to get out of debt.
Maybe NBC bought Perfect World and they are threatening to cancel the show because it isn't making enough profit like they did to all the top rated shows when they bought Sci-fi.
But seriously this is an effort to reduce farming and boost Zen conversion.
I salvage the rings from guild's members donations with 6 of my alts (VIP) so the cap is quickly done.
Keep my main to salvage his own AD.
the issue for me is that the cap will slow down the progression of my guild. We buy the fondation pack from zen market or AH to give a little boost to the mimic.
My turn ^^ Just to be simple, What could i do my not refined diamons, i create my Op and DC to start refining because i got too much to refine on my main and now playing with them (13k/11k) ...but not enought, this week i create my TR and GWF because i still got diamonds to refine... With this caps, what can i do, only with my main i get it. I stop playing my others char ? Really, it's a bad idea. please don't implement this change.
I kind of knew that this was comming, but this is not a good solution especially since the rates are low and there is not that many nice things to actually sell unless it is, again, a chance to get something big.
Everything is expensive since people invest a lot of time to get it.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Comments
So now, with this cap, I will run one of each RQ across my entire account and use the one with the highest stack of bonus RAD from invoking. Since I have 8 toons, this means I just need to earn about 70k per day. And a fat wedge of that will come from running one toon a day through their weeklies.
This will reduce the number of Random queues I run by about 75-80%.
Since the other main argument in support of RQ was that it would encourage queues to pop faster, can I now assume that with the reduced requirement to run said queues on multiple toons due to the drop in RAD rewards... that Random Queues has, in fact, been an abject failure?
To prevent ZAX getting so high do what worked with 2X rp remove 40% zen events permanently
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
-Every salvageable gear as surplus gives 162 GM, 10 piece is roughly a chart, which can contain (with double prof. event or double prof guild bonus) ~45k AD of value.
-GM giving items, like shards, in any other gainable form plays a big role in the game for the same reason and a lot of them can be stacked up in space-friendly way til double GM event (and then, using the charts in double prof). So alts will have use in the future, as banks.
-Refine stone farming is still an option, with the option of grinding out sup. enchanting stones in Dread ring lairs.
Now, the actual problem is not that it will negatively affect farmers, but the lack of casually used consumable MW item in the new mod kind of progresses down the prices of these prof. items in the long term and the lack of artifact gear change will bring down the price of refinement stones and marks and THAT will negatively affect farmers, who does not get an exact value of their work now, but something that can eventually flood out the market.
Any plan on doing something on behalf of giving players more incentive to sink refine point, components and GM? @noworries#8859
Edit: Clarifications.
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
HAMSTER filter manually applied by moderator.
> Sounds like another quick cash grab by Cryptic, another way to get players to buy Zen. Oh well with all the crying of how players will leave no one will go anywhere and the devs know it. We can complain, complain, and complain but still play the game. Cryptic will continue to make changes to AD until it sits in the Zen market next Coal Wards.
I promise you that a large part of the game will leave if this goes live on pc. Some players on Xbox might not even wait for it to come to consoles.
But you are right. Yet again 100% another cash grab...
We like to shake our heads in amusement as you try to justify every single change for the worst and play along with the devs attempted spins at shaping the B.S. into a positive. It's frankly far more entertaining than the game.
And the optimists among those who quit still keep in touch to see if the devs can get a grip on their trainwreck and somehow make the game better.
So here I am, checking the forums to see if it's worth coming back and...
Lol. Nope.
But by all means, do give the devs your feedback, and say this is a bad thing, I am sure they pay close attention and will correct it like they did after the backlash from stuff like random queues was so universally negative.
oh, wait, they didn't.
Some guy before said he spent $300 on x3 rank 14 bondings.
Many people got family to feed here. They will not buy bomdings at this price
Without army of alts you could never grind up most of them - without buying ZEN.
The limit will not affect botters..they will just use more accounts.
The players that will be affected are primarily F2P players who max out the current cap on multiple alts per day...and that's, what 10% of the players.
I consider that a bit too high, and I wonder how high the daily limit would have to be to only affect like 2-3% of the players.
The only way this will not drive players away is if the AD cap is at least 200k.
100k for one day is enough to get a Superior Mark of Potency, not enough to even buy x5 legendary dragon keys to run your bugged dungeons that never drop anything of value for you to even make any AD.
I was going to spend a bit on the summer fest but at this point im just waiting for this to go live so I can quit. This is a change to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over the die hard players and encourage people to buy zen, which will not be the case. This change will not hurt the players with 50+mill (very few) since they will continue to make loads of AD off mastercrafting but will the average player who has to salvage daily to get keys, smops, scrolls, etc. I'd suggest not spending a dime on this game until they show the players they care even a spec about us.
I think most of the players dont hit 100k day but I understand people who do.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
If after the mod14, the game will be unplayable, my friends and I will change game.
I believe that many will change game.
If everything should be used to reduce the botters, they will simply make more accounts.
If they don't adjust or people stop selling goods
You know what I mean.
Alts still be good for storage and quests.
I salvage the rings from guild's members donations with 6 of my alts (VIP) so the cap is quickly done.
Keep my main to salvage his own AD.
the issue for me is that the cap will slow down the progression of my guild. We buy the fondation pack from zen market or AH to give a little boost to the mimic.
Anybody's got an idea how I can deal with that ?
French guild : L'Ordre Du Dragon Noir
Maybe NBC bought Perfect World and they are threatening to cancel the show because it isn't making enough profit like they did to all the top rated shows when they bought Sci-fi.
But seriously this is an effort to reduce farming and boost Zen conversion.
Just to be simple, What could i do my not refined diamons, i create my Op and DC to start refining because i got too much to refine on my main and now playing with them (13k/11k) ...but not enought, this week i create my TR and GWF because i still got diamonds to refine...
With this caps, what can i do, only with my main i get it.
I stop playing my others char ?
Really, it's a bad idea. please don't implement this change.
Everything is expensive since people invest a lot of time to get it.