This will cause all profession based items to go up in price. That is profession assets, tools, resources, and products. Why?
Because this will become the main source of producing AD after Mod 14 and thus the cost for the main way of making AD will skyrocket. You have to spend AD to make AD.
> Additional AD sinks is also an area we are looking into and have some future plans already, but continue to investigate fun/rewarding ways to spend AD.
>
> I think the important part of sharps suggestion is that it effects only the most wealthy of the citizens of neverwinter. I think it's important that the sinks are things that don't affect the new to mid level players who only have a small to moderate amount of wealth to begin with.
No it effects the AD poor more than anyone. We can only get 100k per account now so why have more than 1 toon? And if there's no point in having more than one toon why even play the game? I smell death in the air and it's name is mod 14. Instead of making this change they should just have double ad refinement weekends every few months. It will give the economy the AD boost it needs but not completely screw over everyone in the process.
sharps suggestion was that they use mastercraft items as an ad sink. I was pointing out that what makes his suggestion especially viable is that it only affects the wealthy. future ad sinks really need to affect the wealthy not the lower players. my point was not invalid
viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
1. People run content to get RAD 2. People refine RAD 3. People put refined AD into exchange to buy ZEN 4. People with little time to play and a lot of cash buy ZEN for real money and put it into exchange 5. People who get RAD and refine it buy that ZEN and use it 6. People with little time sell their zen and get Astrals to use on AH
No Astrals to exchange for ZEN? No ZEN sales. People with little time stop buying ZEN to sell it but we could have then another back log. This time it could be back wards. Now back log stands at 18459188 @ 500 Each Excluding some a few hundred thousands who want it for 499 etc Then we could see the back log going back wards of 1-3mill of ZEN sitting here with no one buying.
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Rise cap to 200-300k 100k is nothing. Hundreds might go broke before prices adjust and people might just refuse to sell at lower prices.
I have 8 characters all level 70, I am most comfortable with 8 and that is all I need. Every Monday I do these;
The Arcane Reservoir - 4,500 Rough AD
The Red Wizards - 4,500 Rough AD
Protecting the Portal - 4,500 Rough AD
Reclaiming the Hoard - 4,500 Rough AD
But I rarely, random Dungeon and Skirmishes and not for the AD. I play for fun. Everyone here complaining sounds like an employee getting their paycheck cut. With my 8 characters on Monday I can get 18,000 AD each + 50% for invoking, comes to 27K AD per character. That is a weekly 216K AD just on Monday. With the new 100K account cap, I will have to break it up over 2 days or more. If I make 350 seals of the protector on any character, I purchase the boots at the seal vendor Phileas Gram along with the materials to restore them; 1 Ostorian Resin and 5 Lanolin. The restored boots make 5,000 Rough AD. Overall if I push my characters they can produce 500K per week without issue. This is still under the 700K per week cap. With a level cap at 36K per character, I have the potential to make 2 million AD a week, but never have and never will.
I get a little sick of players crying about how they are going to quit over something like this and they don't. Jump or get down off the ledge. Cryptic is not a charity, but you can play their game for free as I have done. Others we call "whales" contribute to your fun and pay for you to play here in their yard. Imagine for one minute, if you paid a monthly subscription fee of $20 month to play an online game, yet another crabs about the game currency, and they are playing without a paid subscription. How would you view that person?
I can complain all day long about how Cryptic has mismanaged this game. But to complain because you can't grind out over 700,000 AD in a week is pretty lame. Having fun, is not about grinding Astral Diamonds.
Does the change directly effect me? Not normally. But it does take away an ability to do some serious farming for something that I want now. Which is the point. The banked on idea here is if you want it now you are going to have to buy Zen and selling for AD instead of doing a few days of extra farming to be the quick AD boost.
The 100k account cap change will only affect the most active players. I rarely cross 100k RAD a day even with 8 alts of which 3 are geared.
I think the RQ change will have more effect, currently I can run 3 characters through RQs and easily cap them all at 36k AD. That is going to be a lot harder now.
Also: Looking at PTS, the 3rd level RQ consists of the 12-people events and FBI, MSP etc. Winning that with a PUG will be nontrivial. So very likely the number of reliably doable RQs is now dropping from 3 to 2.
Income from RQ bonuses will drop sharply, forcing us to make more RAD by salvage runs which likely give less AD per hour than farming RQ bonuses. More salvage runs also makes epic chest keys an issue, 3 keys per day from VIP does not go that far. (This probably is a good reason to have several playable alts...)
I think the RQ changes will cut a lot harder into the AD income than the 100k AD refining cap change for most of us.
> @"demolitioninc#2453" said: > 100K per account, that's a huge blow to all botters. Love it.
I don't believe it will hurt bots, they will just create more accounts. It will hurt someone like me. An unemployed (retired) person looking for a fun way to pass my time. One character for each class (8), current max 288,000. I don't hit that every day. BUT, I often get close. 100,000 is too low. I don't know enough about the other stuff to comment. But if this happens, I will have to find some other game to fill my day. Who knows, I may just decide to stick with the other game.
First it is important to note this isn't a change due to botters as many people have suggested in this thread, it is a change to improve the value of Astral Diamonds.
Can I just say how much I like that this reply was put. I think it is really important to understand what we are talking about. So here is my view on a few things 1. Account wide AD access. I think this is a positive feature. It should have existed when the game first came out and I think it is extremely logical. I would like to see the account wide approach go hand in hand with ways of making it easier to run alts, e.g. the campaign boost tokens being made easier to get and areas like the need to farm voninblood looked at.
2. Bots Even if you are not thinking about bots, most of us are and if you want to do something about AD inflation you may want to do the same thing. It smarts that there areas of the game that are very rewarding but that any sane person would prefer to run by bot. This is professions (ever since the drop of gateway all the clicking is a pure time sink and there are short activities that are more rewarding, all skewing things in favour of bots) and low level dungeons. Please improve these areas to level the playing field.
3. Account wide AD cap. I think an account-wide AD cap is in principle a good thing. While we have all gotten used to shifting stuff around it is something you have to explain to every new player and that takes up unnecessary time you have to do it. Being able to just refine on whatever character is a great idea. What is more complicated is the daily refinement cap. It does sound like you are planning to restrict access to AD overall, so maybe it will be fairly hard to reach 100k AD a day. But on the whole it does sound like it perhaps a step too far in one direction. My advice, start the cap higher, say 200k AD a day, which any reasonable player would imho accept and that is near the current total for someone with a 6 character slots. If the other measures etc. don't bite you can then lower it at a later stage, but it is less of a crash and you end up with people who have bought character slots feeling less screwed (one of the worst things you can do imho).
4. Bonus rough AD It is unclear what it is going to happen to the bonus AD characters get from invocations. Will this also be account wide? Will that remain capped at 100k per character slot? Please claritfy.
Let me begin by saying that, first, I play on XB and second, I agree that the acquisition of RAD needs balancing.
Now let me put a couple of things into perspective, points that a few people seem to be missing. (I will be using simile, metaphor, analogy, and a degree of sarcasm in so doing...)
First, the notion that a 100'000 RAD:AD will somehow penalise botters. Well, yes... it will, but it will do exactly the same to non botters. When punitive measures are put in place to deal with the effect rather than cause, it will affect all means of the cause. For instance, I imagine that if John Maclaine had been a Cryptic Developer rather than an NYPD Detective, rather than picking off Hans Gruber's team one by one, he would have called in a tactical nuclear strike to vaporise Nakatomi Plaza thereby killing all the terrorists with one massive sweeping display of ill thought through brute force. Obviously, along with all the hostages, there would be thousands of unwitting civilian casualties, but hey... if the mission goal is simply "Stop the terrorists." then Job Done.
Until some form of Captcha-esque verification of live interaction can be introduced for reward claims, any punitive measure will affect botters and proper players in equal measure. Please bear this in mind before applying scatter gun solutions.
Second, the idea that this will only affect those greedy rich HAMSTER with millions of alts. No... just NO. This example uses actual mathematics.
If you have never played more than your original first character, then this proposed change is Chocolate Christmas with a solid gold cherry on the top. Your capacity to convert RAD will be raised by 177% Congratulations. If you chose to run that first free alt, (but no more than that), then you too have an increase... only 38%, but still... CHEERS.
However, if you have taken ANY amount of Zen and purchased any form of character slot... even if you are running a third character only.. then this change negatively impacts YOU. Three toons sees a reduction of roughly 7.5% Four toons is over 30% reduction. Five... 45% And if you have six its over 50%. By the time you hit 50 characters that reduction in potential RAD conversion capacity is roughly 95%
So yes, of course it impacts players more, the more characters they have, because it is, quite literally, a penalty that corresponds DIRECTLY to how much you have spent purchasing character slots. But no one should kid themselves that it doesn't impact everyone who has three or more characters.
Now, when we complained about how negatively the Random Queue would impact the game much of the argument was subjective and anecdotal. Not so with this.
It is demonstrably biased toward negatively impacting those who have invested the most cash/time and effort into buying more character slots on a sliding scale. More spent. More Hurt.
This is a punitive measure that you feel the need to implement, because no one thought "what will players DO with all those character slots we are selling them?" in the first instance.
They would use those character slots as zombie farmers, and inert bankers....
The Devs would have realised this had they ever read the book "Of Course Thats What They Would Do" by the famous author, "ANYONE who has ever participated in an MMORPG"
So, sure, there's too much AD in the game, and something needs to be done... But please... have a think about that Cap. It should at the VERY LEAST not apply for the first two additional, (paid-for) character slots.
Oh, and don't announce HAMSTER like this on the day you run a double Seals event on XBox. It makes you look like a bunch complete bloody amateurs. "Too much RAD in the game.... Here... have some free salvage."
Its stuff like that, that often makes me wonder if the people behind this game could find their own HAMSTER with both hands and a map.
It does NOT inspire confidence that you have a grip on the situation.
I remember when the random queues we announced the first time. People went crazy and thought their AD income was going to be cut significantly. In reality the amount of AD that could be earned through unchallenging alt grinds hugely went up. Taking that down a notch is fine with me.
The random normal dungeons and the random T1/T2 dungeons are not enough of a challenge for higher IL characters to justify those payouts.
Fact is there are only 6 ways for player to make AD in this game. With number 1 being the only way to add AD to the game.
1. Refining RAD into AD. How you get the RAD doesn't matter.
2. Buying Zen and selling it for AD.
3. Selling random drops from dungeons in the AH.
4. Selling Profession products in the AH
5. Selling items bought with Guild Marks on the AH.
6. Selling items dropped from Lockboxes on the AH.
The development team thinks that by neutering number 1 number 2 will move up to number 1. They think that the economy is static and that it won't adjust dynamically. (They must be students of modern government economics.) The idea is if number 1 is neutered then not only will number 2 move up but the prices will all just drop. But if you think that you have zero concept of how a true economy works. Truth is number 3 will move up to number 1. (People will always, always do the cheapest method 1st.) Granted number 2 will probably see a boost for a time but it will not last. In addition all aspects of number 3 will become more expensive because it is even less regulated than number 1 is now. But even with all aspect of number 3 becoming more expensive that expensive will be AD not real world money and thus people will still do that 1st.
Is making AD refinement account wide a good idea? Probably.
Is making the cap so low that you force those that have huge amounts to take over the professions even more than they are now a good idea? Not in the slightest.
Will the cap effect most of the players on a day to day basis? No.
Will the cap effect players from putting in extra time in the game to get that item that just came out that they want? Absolutely.
Will the cap cause more players to quit or do nothing but professions and not play the game hoping that it is fixed down the road? Yes.
Honestly when I read all posts I think most people fail to understand simple economics.
It's good change for new players or someone with less time to play (casual). It mostly hurt that 1-5% of people who farmed 200-300k daily. Well even people who often reach 200k in single day have many "no income" days so it will even out. I know some people like that - playing all day but they didn't bought any zen yet. It's understable since it's f2p game but if one person generates around few $ currency worth a day or more.. it will break the economy. Right now it's broken since we're able to generate way more AD than before (at least for me - random queue generates a lot of AD plus just few Tong/Cradle runs get me a lot of AD from salvage). We see its effect in zen backlog.. (18 mil on PC). With that value of AD will increase (prices will drop too but slowly). Majority of playerbase will benefit from it.
Increasing zen/ad limit from 500? It's stupid and I don't want to pay 1000 ad/zen (because if there will be 1000 limit it will reach that for sure..like on russian server).
Increasing daily cap to 200k+? It will not change a thing then. 100k day is healthy amount doable in few hours or less. Mass grinding dungeons for 10 hours 7 days week like some do isn't good healthy thing to do imho. Of course there will be problem of people running multiple accounts but their AD influx is limited (no end game characters, no guild etc).
But of course it's still bandaid of sort and we actually need more AD sinks. Right now we can only buy marks/cubes/rush things or 10% cut on AH to delete our AD. We would need nice transmutes/comps in Bazar, some expensive items here (like Sharp idea - making some mw items buyable for AD directly).
I remember when the random queues we announced the first time. People went crazy and thought their AD income was going to be cut significantly. In reality the amount of AD that could be earned through unchallenging alt grinds hugely went up. Taking that down a notch is fine with me.
The random normal dungeons and the random T1/T2 dungeons are not enough of a challenge for higher IL characters to justify those payouts.
it's one of the reason why our current economy is broken like this. I'm quite casual player most of the time but my income increased a lot with random dungeons. If I want I can just spam random leveling for whopping 8-10k day (with salvage but I can't remember exact numbers) on several alts for few mins each. Bah even epic dungeon lately dropped me mostly on in esot/kessel (well I like it isn't fbi all day like previously) that last even less for even bigger payouts. After introducing random queues our income increased a lot (for people who use it of course). This had hard impact on our economy.
I find it funny that so many people support this because “it will only” affect people who run an army of toons each day.
I run 7 toons a day and it takes me 2-3 hours. That is how I chose to spend my time, and have paid for the privilege to earn 256k ad per day, through buying character slots and grinding the randoms.
On weekends I then run progressive stuff.
I don’t understand how people can sit there saying that’s it is a fair change because now they keep up with the players that put in 5 time the time and work.
The world usually works in the way that the more work you put in, the more rewards you will reap.
Also, I fail to see an massive impact straight away. Those whales that you are so keen on hitting. They sit on thousands upon thousands of zen and millions of AD. Unless Cryptic actively posts zen to AD and items on the trade house, these guys will still control the market. And they make their AD through playing the trade house and the zax, meaning the daily cap won’t affect the “big guys” much.
The people you are punishing are, for one out of many, the middle guys. Those who put in time and effort to get ahead faster. Who aren’t interested in sitting on zen or AD, but who makes it to spend it on upgrades. So that you actually see progression on a daily basis.
Another thing that a lot have overlooked, is that they plan to make only one toon able to earn the first bonus AD reward per day per account. So to make your daily 100k you now need 16 pieces of salvage at 4.400 value. Yes! By all means! Add even more grind to the game, in a feeble attempt to blow life into an already dying game. Rather than focusing on making more interesting content...
Interesting solution to the trap you dig yourself called high VIP rank. Many games pamper new and incoming players, but to make VIP interesting you cut the AD sinks for the part of players that earn the most of AD instead. Now, to counter that, you make for exactly those players a quite easily reached limit on the income...
Anyway, I like the idea to widen the selection in Wondrous Bazaar.
> @luks707 said: > > 4. Bonus rough AD > It is unclear what it is going to happen to the bonus AD characters get from invocations. Will this also be account wide? Will that remain capped at 100k per character slot? Please claritfy.
That is a very good question. What will become of the bonus RAD from invoking? I'm guessing that the extra RAD will be a total waste of time. You will get it for whatever 1 or few characters actually get to refine AD each day. All the rest will be at 100k forever.
Also note that AD will not be account wide. You will be able to add it to the bank. "Astral Diamonds can now go into the shared bank." Not that they will be account shared. Which means RAD will be stuck on each character seperately. Personally I think that if you are going to cap AD refining account wide then AD should be stored account wide like Zen.
Which begs the question how will the game determine which character(s) gets to refine AD each day?
So as a long time player since the early days on PC and day 1 on Xbox I have had to suffer a lot from you.
Broken Mods, Glitches, Nerf's, Copy and Paste Content, Perpetual New Gear to Grind, Rebalancing that doesnt work, More Nerf's, removal of items, No new class for years the list goes on and on. I had hoped the 5th year anniversary would bring with it new content new class happy times instead you have decided yet again to kick your loyal long time players in the HAMSTER. Don't you realise that punishing us for your inability to deal with cheats and botters on PC isn't fair and isn't showing us any loyalty.
You bring in Random dungeons to make us more of a community to make us run content together then a mod later you decide to make them only worthwhile on 1 toon and so basically they will become worthless. It is YOU that implemented the idea of allowing us to buy Zen with AD and shock horror players grind to do this because you yourselves have created a play to win attitude with lvl 70 Toons straight out the box, completed campaigns no work required best in game companions the list again goes on and on. YOU bring in all these incentives so we grind we run we play lots to get them using the AD to Zen mechanic that YOU implemented in the game. Limiting accounts to 100k a day will do nothing to stop the botters will do very little to change the Zen prices what it will do is collapse your player base again. YOU didnt learn any lesson's when players left in droves when YOU removed the coal wards from the trade bar store obviously as you are now going down a path that will have as big an impact on player numbers.
The 5th Year Anniversary was supposed to be a joyous time for all in the game with hopes of lessons learnt and new horizons ahead. All YOU have done is decide to create another clear money grab method to force the remaining players to either play less because there will be no reason to play beyond 100k a day for some or spend real world money to just buy zen and put it up for sale.
I have spent £1000's on this game over the years but if YOU implement this idea with this cap then I will spend not a penny more because I will no longer be playing and I know a lof of long term players feel the same as me. Oh and if you are hoping these changes will bring in new players to the game then I am sorry you are very deluded because very people will be recommending Neverwinter to anyone.
Just because I have the time to play a lot and grind I shouldnt be penalised.
PLEASE I implore you to not go ahead with either of the AD or Random queue changes support us as we have supported you all these years DONT kick us anymore......
Comparing to the actual system, I see one positive thing: If you have between 1 or 2 characters you will win.
If you have more than 3 characters, you are losing.
What will happen? Peoples will stop playing a majority of their toons, and they will become pure banks. Only 3 toons will be used in game. For exemple, I have 10 toons, why will I continue to play with my little toons if I can't win ADs with them when I run a dungeon?
About the ZAX? It won't resolv the problem. Peoples store AD during the year and trade them for the 2 events where we can have reductions in Zen Market.
A solution will be to place a limitation to the Zen quantity per account. With a limitation to 25K Zen per account, you will have more chance to solve the ZAX problem than by nerfing AD.
Brewald - GWF 18.3k Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k Valrik - DC AC 18.2k Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
Well this rewards those who already have a lot of AD. Capping those new and upcoming players who work hard to be able to compete only discourages people. It does not discourage the botters because as others have said they have multiple accounts. It will not slow down the influx of AD from them into the game. This will not help your average player at all. It will in fact make things worse.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
First it is important to note this isn't a change due to botters as many people have suggested in this thread, it is a change to improve the value of Astral Diamonds.
We could, as an example, raise the ZAX exchange cap to 1,000 on PC. It would rise up significantly to at least 750, but likely higher. This wouldn't make auction house items more affordable for players as the value of AD just decreased significantly and would drive up the auction house prices. This would require players to grind even more AD to buy what they did previously.
Limiting the ZAX to 500, helps give some stability to the value of AD, but not fully as there is still a lot of RAD entering the economy each day and only so much leaving. Our changes are intended to both help bring the prices in the AH, and the ZAX down, as well as help newer players and those with less playtime earn a bit more AD to help them out.
We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day. A player can always log in on days they aren't grinding out AD to refine extra RAD on their characters.
Keeping the value in AD is an ongoing project for us and we will certainly be watching how this change impacts the ZAX and AH and can always make adjustments in the future to ease back the limits if that seems like the right choice.
100k lol i can cap 8 chars in one day with the recent 36kx8=288k rad day, by spending all day farming(main char)+2 random queue on alts, and with vip 12 the wondorous bazaar prices are fine, you need to get players excited to get get vip to max rank because the discounts from it + some discount events makes the ad values shine, idk were you pulled that data from but someone is manipulating those values for sure, making items from zen store bound to account will stop bots from selling it on ah, this would make a huge difference on ah items and players decide if they want to use exchange or charge zen on account, the daily ad income for players to 100k/per account its a "kick in the balls".
A 100k daily ad account cap is actually good except for one massive hindsight/downside: Bots can circumvent and benefit by making a ton of accounts and AD laundering. This system actually favors botting.
What is needed is a new account/new character provisionary currency.
Solution: In addition to the 100k daily ad account cap: - Create a NEW CURRENCY for new accounts/players (aside from Rough Astral Diamonds). - Currency can buy BOUND to account/character items only from Wondrous Bazaar ( or a new newbie store ) - Unlockable access to Rough Astral Diamonds.
Implementation: - New accounts with new characters can only earn this new currency ( instead of Rough Astral Diamonds ). - New players can use this new currency to buy Character BOUND items such as Rank 8 Enchants, Basic Gear, Purple Mount, Artifact, Marks, etc. ( every items essential to new player to progress, only character bound and cannot be salvaged/converted to RP). - Set a time-gated item level + character progression (campaign/storyline) threshold that will unlock access/graduate the character to earning Rough Astral Diamonds. - Every new character by the new account goes through same process. - After a 6 month probation period when the first character unlocks Rough Astral Diamond, every new character no longer have to unlock Rough Astral Diamond. - New players/accounts can still access Zen Exchange if they have Zen/ViP. - New players/accounts can still have access to regular Astral Diamonds from selling Lockbox items on AH.
Example: Slew of requirements to Unlock access to Rough Astral Diamonds: + Finish Dread Ring + Sharandar + Elemental Evil Campaigns. + Have total 10k item level. + Have 3x purple artifacts. + Upgrade weapon + offhand to purple.
That kills off account chaining bot hordes. They don't benefit from character bound items like new players. And there's no access to Rough Astral Diamonds until they progress their character in normal fashion. Plus the 6 month probation period adds extra hurdle from spamming new characters.
The end goal of these changes, and future changes, is to get the AD markets into a better state for the players, allow the ZAX to work better and to make AD more meaningful and useful all around.
So we should suppose that You know the meaning of the way to spend our AD, lfmao! That's ridiculous.
At this time your goal seems just to spread panic and confusion with the announcement of Mod14. If there's a traffic problem in the ZAX, it's just for the knowledge of the Sale on Zen Market, so people usually go crazy on their requests of zen. BUT: it's not hitting our earnings the right way to solve the issue, imo.
Against introducing this kind of limits, I say: introduce more contents and really cool items (not the stupid hunt's gear that when you look to the effort to obtain it, you think "why I should spend my time to get an item which doesn't really makes the difference in the game contents and which will be useless on the next month cuz a new mod with new gear is coming?") which make people thinking to buy that special mount or that special armor, for example.
Variety should be the Key.
And If your real goal is to make people buy more Zen with real money, I suggest the same approach: instead of reducing our ADs, try to make the game more appealing and avoid to "scare" us with restrictions
100K per account, that's a huge blow to all botters. Love it.
Botters will still have hunts to make ad this will just hurt legit players and promote multi accounts
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Comments
Because this will become the main source of producing AD after Mod 14 and thus the cost for the main way of making AD will skyrocket. You have to spend AD to make AD.
Because AD can be converted to Zen.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
2. People refine RAD
3. People put refined AD into exchange to buy ZEN
4. People with little time to play and a lot of cash buy ZEN for real money and put it into exchange
5. People who get RAD and refine it buy that ZEN and use it
6. People with little time sell their zen and get Astrals to use on AH
No Astrals to exchange for ZEN? No ZEN sales. People with little time stop buying ZEN to sell it but we could have then another back log.
This time it could be back wards.
Now back log stands at 18459188 @ 500 Each
Excluding some a few hundred thousands who want it for 499 etc
Then we could see the back log going back wards of 1-3mill of ZEN sitting here with no one buying.
100k is nothing.
Hundreds might go broke before prices adjust and people might just refuse to sell at lower prices.
Wards are through the roof.
No wards no upgrades.
- The Arcane Reservoir - 4,500 Rough AD
- The Red Wizards - 4,500 Rough AD
- Protecting the Portal - 4,500 Rough AD
- Reclaiming the Hoard - 4,500 Rough AD
But I rarely, random Dungeon and Skirmishes and not for the AD. I play for fun. Everyone here complaining sounds like an employee getting their paycheck cut. With my 8 characters on Monday I can get 18,000 AD each + 50% for invoking, comes to 27K AD per character. That is a weekly 216K AD just on Monday. With the new 100K account cap, I will have to break it up over 2 days or more. If I make 350 seals of the protector on any character, I purchase the boots at the seal vendor Phileas Gram along with the materials to restore them; 1 Ostorian Resin and 5 Lanolin. The restored boots make 5,000 Rough AD. Overall if I push my characters they can produce 500K per week without issue. This is still under the 700K per week cap. With a level cap at 36K per character, I have the potential to make 2 million AD a week, but never have and never will.I get a little sick of players crying about how they are going to quit over something like this and they don't. Jump or get down off the ledge. Cryptic is not a charity, but you can play their game for free as I have done. Others we call "whales" contribute to your fun and pay for you to play here in their yard. Imagine for one minute, if you paid a monthly subscription fee of $20 month to play an online game, yet another crabs about the game currency, and they are playing without a paid subscription. How would you view that person?
I can complain all day long about how Cryptic has mismanaged this game. But to complain because you can't grind out over 700,000 AD in a week is pretty lame. Having fun, is not about grinding Astral Diamonds.
I think the RQ change will have more effect, currently I can run 3 characters through RQs and easily cap them all at 36k AD. That is going to be a lot harder now.
Also: Looking at PTS, the 3rd level RQ consists of the 12-people events and FBI, MSP etc. Winning that with a PUG will be nontrivial. So very likely the number of reliably doable RQs is now dropping from 3 to 2.
Income from RQ bonuses will drop sharply, forcing us to make more RAD by salvage runs which likely give less AD per hour than farming RQ bonuses. More salvage runs also makes epic chest keys an issue, 3 keys per day from VIP does not go that far.
(This probably is a good reason to have several playable alts...)
I think the RQ changes will cut a lot harder into the AD income than the 100k AD refining cap change for most of us.
> 100K per account, that's a huge blow to all botters. Love it.
I don't believe it will hurt bots, they will just create more accounts. It will hurt someone like me. An unemployed (retired) person looking for a fun way to pass my time. One character for each class (8), current max 288,000. I don't hit that every day. BUT, I often get close. 100,000 is too low. I don't know enough about the other stuff to comment. But if this happens, I will have to find some other game to fill my day. Who knows, I may just decide to stick with the other game.
So here is my view on a few things
1. Account wide AD access.
I think this is a positive feature. It should have existed when the game first came out and I think it is extremely logical. I would like to see the account wide approach go hand in hand with ways of making it easier to run alts, e.g. the campaign boost tokens being made easier to get and areas like the need to farm voninblood looked at.
2. Bots
Even if you are not thinking about bots, most of us are and if you want to do something about AD inflation you may want to do the same thing. It smarts that there areas of the game that are very rewarding but that any sane person would prefer to run by bot. This is professions (ever since the drop of gateway all the clicking is a pure time sink and there are short activities that are more rewarding, all skewing things in favour of bots) and low level dungeons. Please improve these areas to level the playing field.
3. Account wide AD cap.
I think an account-wide AD cap is in principle a good thing. While we have all gotten used to shifting stuff around it is something you have to explain to every new player and that takes up unnecessary time you have to do it. Being able to just refine on whatever character is a great idea.
What is more complicated is the daily refinement cap. It does sound like you are planning to restrict access to AD overall, so maybe it will be fairly hard to reach 100k AD a day. But on the whole it does sound like it perhaps a step too far in one direction. My advice, start the cap higher, say 200k AD a day, which any reasonable player would imho accept and that is near the current total for someone with a 6 character slots. If the other measures etc. don't bite you can then lower it at a later stage, but it is less of a crash and you end up with people who have bought character slots feeling less screwed (one of the worst things you can do imho).
4. Bonus rough AD
It is unclear what it is going to happen to the bonus AD characters get from invocations. Will this also be account wide? Will that remain capped at 100k per character slot? Please claritfy.
Now let me put a couple of things into perspective, points that a few people seem to be missing. (I will be using simile, metaphor, analogy, and a degree of sarcasm in so doing...)
First, the notion that a 100'000 RAD:AD will somehow penalise botters.
Well, yes... it will, but it will do exactly the same to non botters. When punitive measures are put in place to deal with the effect rather than cause, it will affect all means of the cause.
For instance, I imagine that if John Maclaine had been a Cryptic Developer rather than an NYPD Detective, rather than picking off Hans Gruber's team one by one, he would have called in a tactical nuclear strike to vaporise Nakatomi Plaza thereby killing all the terrorists with one massive sweeping display of ill thought through brute force. Obviously, along with all the hostages, there would be thousands of unwitting civilian casualties, but hey... if the mission goal is simply "Stop the terrorists." then Job Done.
Until some form of Captcha-esque verification of live interaction can be introduced for reward claims, any punitive measure will affect botters and proper players in equal measure. Please bear this in mind before applying scatter gun solutions.
Second, the idea that this will only affect those greedy rich HAMSTER with millions of alts.
No... just NO.
This example uses actual mathematics.
If you have never played more than your original first character, then this proposed change is Chocolate Christmas with a solid gold cherry on the top. Your capacity to convert RAD will be raised by 177% Congratulations.
If you chose to run that first free alt, (but no more than that), then you too have an increase... only 38%, but still... CHEERS.
However, if you have taken ANY amount of Zen and purchased any form of character slot... even if you are running a third character only.. then this change negatively impacts YOU.
Three toons sees a reduction of roughly 7.5%
Four toons is over 30% reduction.
Five... 45%
And if you have six its over 50%.
By the time you hit 50 characters that reduction in potential RAD conversion capacity is roughly 95%
So yes, of course it impacts players more, the more characters they have, because it is, quite literally, a penalty that corresponds DIRECTLY to how much you have spent purchasing character slots. But no one should kid themselves that it doesn't impact everyone who has three or more characters.
Now, when we complained about how negatively the Random Queue would impact the game much of the argument was subjective and anecdotal.
Not so with this.
It is demonstrably biased toward negatively impacting those who have invested the most cash/time and effort into buying more character slots on a sliding scale. More spent. More Hurt.
This is a punitive measure that you feel the need to implement, because no one thought "what will players DO with all those character slots we are selling them?" in the first instance.
They would use those character slots as zombie farmers, and inert bankers....
The Devs would have realised this had they ever read the book "Of Course Thats What They Would Do" by the famous author, "ANYONE who has ever participated in an MMORPG"
So, sure, there's too much AD in the game, and something needs to be done...
But please... have a think about that Cap. It should at the VERY LEAST not apply for the first two additional, (paid-for) character slots.
Oh, and don't announce HAMSTER like this on the day you run a double Seals event on XBox. It makes you look like a bunch complete bloody amateurs.
"Too much RAD in the game.... Here... have some free salvage."
Its stuff like that, that often makes me wonder if the people behind this game could find their own HAMSTER with both hands and a map.
It does NOT inspire confidence that you have a grip on the situation.
The random normal dungeons and the random T1/T2 dungeons are not enough of a challenge for higher IL characters to justify those payouts.
1. Refining RAD into AD. How you get the RAD doesn't matter.
2. Buying Zen and selling it for AD.
3. Selling random drops from dungeons in the AH.
4. Selling Profession products in the AH
5. Selling items bought with Guild Marks on the AH.
6. Selling items dropped from Lockboxes on the AH.
The development team thinks that by neutering number 1 number 2 will move up to number 1. They think that the economy is static and that it won't adjust dynamically. (They must be students of modern government economics.) The idea is if number 1 is neutered then not only will number 2 move up but the prices will all just drop. But if you think that you have zero concept of how a true economy works. Truth is number 3 will move up to number 1. (People will always, always do the cheapest method 1st.) Granted number 2 will probably see a boost for a time but it will not last. In addition all aspects of number 3 will become more expensive because it is even less regulated than number 1 is now. But even with all aspect of number 3 becoming more expensive that expensive will be AD not real world money and thus people will still do that 1st.
Is making AD refinement account wide a good idea? Probably.
Is making the cap so low that you force those that have huge amounts to take over the professions even more than they are now a good idea? Not in the slightest.
Will the cap effect most of the players on a day to day basis? No.
Will the cap effect players from putting in extra time in the game to get that item that just came out that they want? Absolutely.
Will the cap cause more players to quit or do nothing but professions and not play the game hoping that it is fixed down the road? Yes.
It's good change for new players or someone with less time to play (casual). It mostly hurt that 1-5% of people who farmed 200-300k daily. Well even people who often reach 200k in single day have many "no income" days so it will even out. I know some people like that - playing all day but they didn't bought any zen yet. It's understable since it's f2p game but if one person generates around few $ currency worth a day or more.. it will break the economy. Right now it's broken since we're able to generate way more AD than before (at least for me - random queue generates a lot of AD plus just few Tong/Cradle runs get me a lot of AD from salvage). We see its effect in zen backlog.. (18 mil on PC). With that value of AD will increase (prices will drop too but slowly). Majority of playerbase will benefit from it.
Increasing zen/ad limit from 500? It's stupid and I don't want to pay 1000 ad/zen (because if there will be 1000 limit it will reach that for sure..like on russian server).
Increasing daily cap to 200k+? It will not change a thing then. 100k day is healthy amount doable in few hours or less. Mass grinding dungeons for 10 hours 7 days week like some do isn't good healthy thing to do imho. Of course there will be problem of people running multiple accounts but their AD influx is limited (no end game characters, no guild etc).
But of course it's still bandaid of sort and we actually need more AD sinks. Right now we can only buy marks/cubes/rush things or 10% cut on AH to delete our AD. We would need nice transmutes/comps in Bazar, some expensive items here (like Sharp idea - making some mw items buyable for AD directly).
I run 7 toons a day and it takes me 2-3 hours. That is how I chose to spend my time, and have paid for the privilege to earn 256k ad per day, through buying character slots and grinding the randoms.
On weekends I then run progressive stuff.
I don’t understand how people can sit there saying that’s it is a fair change because now they keep up with the players that put in 5 time the time and work.
The world usually works in the way that the more work you put in, the more rewards you will reap.
Also, I fail to see an massive impact straight away. Those whales that you are so keen on hitting. They sit on thousands upon thousands of zen and millions of AD. Unless Cryptic actively posts zen to AD and items on the trade house, these guys will still control the market. And they make their AD through playing the trade house and the zax, meaning the daily cap won’t affect the “big guys” much.
The people you are punishing are, for one out of many, the middle guys. Those who put in time and effort to get ahead faster. Who aren’t interested in sitting on zen or AD, but who makes it to spend it on upgrades. So that you actually see progression on a daily basis.
Another thing that a lot have overlooked, is that they plan to make only one toon able to earn the first bonus AD reward per day per account. So to make your daily 100k you now need 16 pieces of salvage at 4.400 value. Yes! By all means! Add even more grind to the game, in a feeble attempt to blow life into an already dying game. Rather than focusing on making more interesting content...
Anyway, I like the idea to widen the selection in Wondrous Bazaar.
You make it sound like if the AD from salvage was filling the backlog, funny.
>
> 4. Bonus rough AD
> It is unclear what it is going to happen to the bonus AD characters get from invocations. Will this also be account wide? Will that remain capped at 100k per character slot? Please claritfy.
That is a very good question. What will become of the bonus RAD from invoking? I'm guessing that the extra RAD will be a total waste of time. You will get it for whatever 1 or few characters actually get to refine AD each day. All the rest will be at 100k forever.
Also note that AD will not be account wide. You will be able to add it to the bank. "Astral Diamonds can now go into the shared bank." Not that they will be account shared. Which means RAD will be stuck on each character seperately. Personally I think that if you are going to cap AD refining account wide then AD should be stored account wide like Zen.
Which begs the question how will the game determine which character(s) gets to refine AD each day?
Broken Mods, Glitches, Nerf's, Copy and Paste Content, Perpetual New Gear to Grind, Rebalancing that doesnt work, More Nerf's, removal of items, No new class for years the list goes on and on. I had hoped the 5th year anniversary would bring with it new content new class happy times instead you have decided yet again to kick your loyal long time players in the HAMSTER. Don't you realise that punishing us for your inability to deal with cheats and botters on PC isn't fair and isn't showing us any loyalty.
You bring in Random dungeons to make us more of a community to make us run content together then a mod later you decide to make them only worthwhile on 1 toon and so basically they will become worthless. It is YOU that implemented the idea of allowing us to buy Zen with AD and shock horror players grind to do this because you yourselves have created a play to win attitude with lvl 70 Toons straight out the box, completed campaigns no work required best in game companions the list again goes on and on. YOU bring in all these incentives so we grind we run we play lots to get them using the AD to Zen mechanic that YOU implemented in the game. Limiting accounts to 100k a day will do nothing to stop the botters will do very little to change the Zen prices what it will do is collapse your player base again. YOU didnt learn any lesson's when players left in droves when YOU removed the coal wards from the trade bar store obviously as you are now going down a path that will have as big an impact on player numbers.
The 5th Year Anniversary was supposed to be a joyous time for all in the game with hopes of lessons learnt and new horizons ahead. All YOU have done is decide to create another clear money grab method to force the remaining players to either play less because there will be no reason to play beyond 100k a day for some or spend real world money to just buy zen and put it up for sale.
I have spent £1000's on this game over the years but if YOU implement this idea with this cap then I will spend not a penny more because I will no longer be playing and I know a lof of long term players feel the same as me. Oh and if you are hoping these changes will bring in new players to the game then I am sorry you are very deluded because very people will be recommending Neverwinter to anyone.
Just because I have the time to play a lot and grind I shouldnt be penalised.
PLEASE I implore you to not go ahead with either of the AD or Random queue changes support us as we have supported you all these years DONT kick us anymore......
If you have between 1 or 2 characters you will win.
If you have more than 3 characters, you are losing.
What will happen?
Peoples will stop playing a majority of their toons, and they will become pure banks.
Only 3 toons will be used in game.
For exemple, I have 10 toons, why will I continue to play with my little toons if I can't win ADs with them when I run a dungeon?
About the ZAX?
It won't resolv the problem.
Peoples store AD during the year and trade them for the 2 events where we can have reductions in Zen Market.
A solution will be to place a limitation to the Zen quantity per account.
With a limitation to 25K Zen per account, you will have more chance to solve the ZAX problem than by nerfing AD.
Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
It does not discourage the botters because as others have said they have multiple accounts. It will not slow down the influx of AD from them into the game.
This will not help your average player at all. It will in fact make things worse.
What is needed is a new account/new character provisionary currency.
Solution: In addition to the 100k daily ad account cap:
- Create a NEW CURRENCY for new accounts/players (aside from Rough Astral Diamonds).
- Currency can buy BOUND to account/character items only from Wondrous Bazaar ( or a new newbie store )
- Unlockable access to Rough Astral Diamonds.
Implementation:
- New accounts with new characters can only earn this new currency ( instead of Rough Astral Diamonds ).
- New players can use this new currency to buy Character BOUND items such as Rank 8 Enchants, Basic Gear, Purple Mount, Artifact, Marks, etc. ( every items essential to new player to progress, only character bound and cannot be salvaged/converted to RP).
- Set a time-gated item level + character progression (campaign/storyline) threshold that will unlock access/graduate the character to earning Rough Astral Diamonds.
- Every new character by the new account goes through same process.
- After a 6 month probation period when the first character unlocks Rough Astral Diamond, every new character no longer have to unlock Rough Astral Diamond.
- New players/accounts can still access Zen Exchange if they have Zen/ViP.
- New players/accounts can still have access to regular Astral Diamonds from selling Lockbox items on AH.
Example: Slew of requirements to Unlock access to Rough Astral Diamonds:
+ Finish Dread Ring + Sharandar + Elemental Evil Campaigns.
+ Have total 10k item level.
+ Have 3x purple artifacts.
+ Upgrade weapon + offhand to purple.
That kills off account chaining bot hordes. They don't benefit from character bound items like new players. And there's no access to Rough Astral Diamonds until they progress their character in normal fashion. Plus the 6 month probation period adds extra hurdle from spamming new characters.
So we should suppose that You know the meaning of the way to spend our AD, lfmao! That's ridiculous.
At this time your goal seems just to spread panic and confusion with the announcement of Mod14. If there's a traffic problem in the ZAX, it's just for the knowledge of the Sale on Zen Market, so people usually go crazy on their requests of zen.
BUT: it's not hitting our earnings the right way to solve the issue, imo.
Against introducing this kind of limits, I say: introduce more contents and really cool items (not the stupid hunt's gear that when you look to the effort to obtain it, you think "why I should spend my time to get an item which doesn't really makes the difference in the game contents and which will be useless on the next month cuz a new mod with new gear is coming?") which make people thinking to buy that special mount or that special armor, for example.
Variety should be the Key.
And If your real goal is to make people buy more Zen with real money, I suggest the same approach: instead of reducing our ADs, try to make the game more appealing and avoid to "scare" us with restrictions
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)