Daily speed runs are horrible

silmefeawen · March 2018

Because daily random dungeons are a thing, and they include dungeons below the level of the player, speed runs are now the norm. Dungeons are no longer fun at all. Now new players are being rushed through and screamed at in dungeons that are appropriate to their own level. No one has time to explore for fear of being voted out. Something has to be done to change this dynamic so dungeons will be fun again, especially for new players. I would like to suggest that player item and skills be brought down to the level of the dungeon. Dropping player level is not nearly enough. Unless all players can be put on truly equal footing in dungeons there will never be the chance for low-level players to truly enjoy them.

time2011 · March 2018

could just do the dungeons you like in private explore all you want then do the random dungeon for the ad's

agilesto · March 2018

time2011 said:
could just do the dungeons you like in private explore all you want then do the random dungeon for the ad's

Except that it would be the other way around. Random queue destroyed completely the levelling dungeons, despite a massive warning from the players. When it was still possible to earn AD from private queue, speedruns didn't destroy the levelling experience of the new / low geared people (or at least in way lower numbers).

Now you have dozens of threads on differents forums from new players / low geared complaning about speedruns and a sub-zero fun experience in levelling dungeons. Note that the devs were totally aware of the massive problems they were creating, yet implement this absolut fail.

time2011 · March 2018

then just run with friends/guilds/alliance if you don't want to deal with rushers. rq is lame to begin with but not much can be done about it now

silmefeawen · March 2018

time2011 said:
then just run with friends/guilds/alliance if you don't want to deal with rushers. rq is lame to begin with but not much can be done about it now

Not every noob has friends in game, let alone a guild. Stop putting it on the new players who have no idea what is going on.

trinity706 · March 2018

trinity706#8838 said:
Personally started some new characters recently and often enough the groups they get into are "at level" (full group of LLC's). It's funny though because when the HLC's queue the rest of the group is essentially comprised of LLC's as well so on one end carrying others on HLC's, then when on the other end getting grouped with at level characters and struggling...

At least from personal experiences getting into an at level group occurs often enough if not more than getting into a group where the others are higher level. Would love to carry others when playing on HLC's (not the negative players that simply want others to carry them) and be carried by others when playing on LLC's LoL

What makes it even worse is when a character(s) sit at the first campfire and the character you are on is at level and every set of mobs pounds on you, if you can clear any at all...

As previously mentioned in another thread:

What is stopping experienced players from pre-grouping and speed running dungeons?
What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

Choice...

A lot of players simply solo RQ and when they get results they don't like they complain even though they have the power to shape their own RQ experience... it takes a "small" bit of effort to save yourself from the headache of letting the system form the group.

What is happening is a conflict of interest and no particular "group" wanting to be the bigger person and remove themselves from the conflict. Pre-grouping with like minded/equipped players will help secure your interests in regard to RQ's, if you don't believe it, try it for yourself.

- LLP's pre-grouping will prevent HLP's from getting into the group so they can explore/get an at level experience.
- HLP's pre-grouping will prevent LLP's from getting into the group so that they can speed run/complete higher level content without being slowed down or struggling.
- Pre-grouping with a group that will vote leave/stay in IG will ensure that particular vote passes.
- etc.

Before RQ's queue times for various content was horrible because HLP's were farming the easiest content via private queue...

If either "type" pre-grouped essentially no changes would be necessary to try and force either to do what the other wants...

Remove yourself from the conflict.

silmefeawen · March 2018

I expected this put it on the new player push back, I did, but you need to understand that people don't always know people who can play with them. If they do, getting folks together to do things is like herding cats. New players don't know to even try any of this, so all of the it's the new players' fault for not knowing how to play is just silly. There is no tutorial about how to avoid speed runners. I have to tell you that there is nothing so awful in this game as being called names because you can't keep up and you don't know the dungeon. This is 100% the fault of the game designers, and not the fault of the players.

agilesto · March 2018

trinity706#8838 said:

What is stopping experienced players from pre-grouping and speed running dungeons?
What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

Choice...

New players, by definition, are NEW to the game. They begin dungeons, they don't have a group of friends, guild to play with, they don't even know the different kind of queues. We might remember that levelling dungeons are mostly for... levelling players, so they should not have to ask questions about it, just queue, enter with similar geared players, and have fun on it.
So what is stopping new players? Inexperience, lack of information and social contacts.

Experienced players, what stop them from pre-grouping and running through content? Time needed to form a group, each time you want to run sometimes dozens of characters. Random queue pop in sec, but even with my enormous alliance and friendlist, I'd have difficult times forming parties for random levelling AD dungeons.

The problem doesn't entierely reside on the player side. Of course it'd be better if experienced player wait for low geared to catch up, etc. But then again, you can't blame them as it's the entiere dev fault. Again, random queue is a nice addition, but the fact that daily AD are hidden behind it is the most absolute fail idea, even more knowing that they were warned countless times.

As a player that do daily dungeons on several lvl 70 alts, i'd love to get back AD from solo (even random) queue, because that would eliminate he entierety of the problems introduced by the random queues. I still get my AD, I don't have to wait for new players, new players don't have to suffer the sub-zero fun with me. Win-win for all.

But then again, you can find I'm a crybaby about it, but I absolutly hate the fact that the team implemented that functionnality despite all the warning given by the players.

trinity706 · March 2018

It is put on BOTH types of players, the experienced players were even mentioned first seeing as how they are more equipped to do so. BOTH play their role in the conflict.

How do players get to know others in game? They interact with them. If players don't want to interact with other why would they join group content?

Just like how you came here on the forums and made a post you can make a post inviting other new players for group content and interact with them in-game.

Just like how you read the response, other newer players have the capability to join the forums to read it as well.

You just proved a point being that newer players have tools to reach out to other new players to help them avoid conflict...

trinity706 · March 2018

A number of the players that offered "warnings" were simply trying to preserve getting AD from private queues which killed queue times for other content at the same time. It's the truth all day long.

Cloak Tower at times used to take 15+ minutes to pop, now it pops much faster due to RQ's.

Being a new player is only an "excuse" for so long, sooner or later interacting with others to build contacts will be a must for particular aspects of the game. There are Guilds that take in newer players and the sooner they join one the sooner they can build contacts...

silmefeawen · March 2018

trinity706#8838 said:
It is put on BOTH types of players, the experienced players were even mentioned first seeing as how they are more equipped to do so. BOTH play their role in the conflict.

How do players get to know others in game? They interact with them. If players don't want to interact with other why would they join group content?

Just like how you came here on the forums and made a post you can make a post inviting other new players for group content and interact with them in-game.

Just like how you read the response, other newer players have the capability to join the forums to read it as well.

You just proved a point being that newer players have tools to reach out to other new players to help them avoid conflict...

You are passing judgement on others based on your own expectations. How does one make friends in a game where you don't know anyone? Would you be kind enough to write a tutorial so new players can find and use it?

As for experienced players helping new ones; LOL! People are not going to help anyone else unless they get something out of it that is more valuable than the reward already being given. Even then, high level players probably won't be willing to help. I have literally tried asking for help only to be told to just catch up.

The devs need to either remove AD from the equation altogether, only group people who are actually the same level, or drop everyone to the same level, gear score, and abilities.

silmefeawen · March 2018

trinity706#8838 said:
A number of the players that offered "warnings" were simply trying to preserve getting AD from private queues which killed queue times for other content at the same time. It's the truth all day long.

Cloak Tower at times used to take 15+ minutes to pop, now it pops much faster due to RQ's.

Being a new player is only an "excuse" for so long, sooner or later interacting with others to build contacts will be a must for particular aspects of the game. There are Guilds that take in newer players and the sooner they join one the sooner they can build contacts...

It is interesting that you have chosen the Cloak Tower as your example. This is a level twelve dungeon that can be reached in only a few hours. In your model new players would have to have made enough friends of the same level who are willing to run this dungeon with them. This concept beggars belief.

trinity706 · March 2018

Players are prompted to link their game account with an Arc account repeatedly on console until they do which clearly encourages players to explore the Arc website and players on PC have multiple tabs clearly visible on the launcher "News" "Forums" "Support" "Release Notes" so yes, new players have very little excuse not to explore their options.

On the forums there is a section named "Player Corner" hmmm...

How many other characters do you see running around Blacklake District and Tower District, more than 2 right? That's enough to run Cloak Tower at level 12...

The other lower level content took just as much time if not more than Cloak Tower before RQ's were introduced. New players can queue for random skirmishes starting at level 5. See those players that the system groups you with? Contact them in regard to future adventures, if they decline so what there are others out there.

ilithyn · March 2018

There's something I see that's left completely out of this discussion. New low level toons can't even chat in the game until they're over level 30. How are these people supposed to find people in the game to queue up privately with exactly?

And these are the people who gets screamed the most at. Was dropped into a CT run the other day - yeah I chuckled when I same where the RQ had landed me - and one of my team mates were a level 15 toon who clearly had no idea what he was doing in there. I tried to chat him up but got no reply, but before I started getting huffy I recalled that toons that low level can't chat if they're made on a new account.
After some creative communication - jump once for yes and twice for no - the newcomer and I found an out of game way of chatting. At this point the other level 70 we were with were screaming at both of us that we were wasting their time and were incompetent, ect.

So yeah, the whole low levels can just queue privately does not take into account that newcomers can't effing talk in this game because Cryptic can't find anyway of combating goldsellers that aren't entirely overkill and alienate new players. (But that's a rant for a different post)

So @trinity706#8838 you may want to take those chat restrictions into account yourself before you hand out useless advice.

cerberusxll · March 2018

I was the one who did the tos run with you earlier and I'm going to tell you now what I told you then. blame the developers for introducing the system as it is, not the players for making the most of it.

yes, I can understand it's frustrating, but this whole mess was created by the people who put the system into place, not those who are using it for their own gain.

and for the record, it wasn't me that ran ahead in our run, it was the SW that quit when you got left behind. I came back and showed you the way. not all lvl 70's don't give a HAMSTER.

trinity706 · March 2018

@ilithyn was waiting for someone to mention chat lockout for new accounts

trinity706#8838 said:
What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

Chat isn't required to form a group...

Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat?

Over and over players blame the game while ignoring the tools/options right there in front of them...

silmefeawen · March 2018

cerberusxll said:
I was the one who did the tos run with you earlier and I'm going to tell you now what I told you then. blame the developers for introducing the system as it is, not the players for making the most of it.

yes, I can understand it's frustrating, but this whole mess was created by the people who put the system into place, not those who are using it for their own gain.

and for the record, it wasn't me that ran ahead in our run, it was the SW that quit when you got left behind. I came back and showed you the way. not all lvl 70's don't give a HAMSTER.

I AM blaming the devs. In fact, you were the inspiration for this post. It's not the players' fault, and that's what I am trying to say here. This is a broken system and it needs to be changed.

silmefeawen · March 2018

trinity706#8838 said:
@ilithyn was waiting for someone to mention chat lockout for new accounts

trinity706#8838 said:
What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)
Chat isn't required to form a group...

Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat?

Over and over players blame the game while ignoring the tools/options right there in front of them...

YES! Every new player has a guild, every new player understands the game completely. It is entirely their own fault and they should just quit because they suck so badly. You are 100% correct.

silmefeawen · March 2018

cerberusxll said:
I was the one who did the tos run with you earlier and I'm going to tell you now what I told you then. blame the developers for introducing the system as it is, not the players for making the most of it.

yes, I can understand it's frustrating, but this whole mess was created by the people who put the system into place, not those who are using it for their own gain.

and for the record, it wasn't me that ran ahead in our run, it was the SW that quit when you got left behind. I came back and showed you the way. not all lvl 70's don't give a HAMSTER.

And thank you so much for coming back for me, BTW. I know that you only wanted to get through, get your AD and move on, but you took the time to help and that is rare in this game.

preechr · March 2018

silmefeawen said:
Because daily random dungeons are a thing, and they include dungeons below the level of the player, speed runs are now the norm. Dungeons are no longer fun at all. Now new players are being rushed through and screamed at in dungeons that are appropriate to their own level. No one has time to explore for fear of being voted out. Something has to be done to change this dynamic so dungeons will be fun again, especially for new players. I would like to suggest that player item and skills be brought down to the level of the dungeon. Dropping player level is not nearly enough. Unless all players can be put on truly equal footing in dungeons there will never be the chance for low-level players to truly enjoy them.

This is an actual solution... Thanks for that

@trinity706#8838 You are just arguing for the sake of arguing again

"Your End" has taken the controversial position that RQ is hunky-dory and all complaints are unfair

You've said it... no need to repeat it over and over a hundred different ways

b4t1b4t · March 2018

What I feel is that leveling dungeons are not meant for the level 70 players to start with. I will state first hand that I run thru them each day my self and why? Because for one I am 70 and for 2 they bore me like you have no idea. I even some times dont really want to but I think guild does need the shards so I might as well. Fact is dev knew they could not remove the AD from leveling dungeons because if they did that those level 70 players that do not yet have FBI MSP or even 12K item level would not be able to get any AD. So they had no choice but to do this. I can understand why they decided this but I really feel they should try hard to find a different work around.

trinity706 · March 2018

preechr#2215 said:
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing again

You are quite incorrect, thank you for the mention though. No need to bring your personal feelings about posts that don't repeatedly bash Cryptic that you disagree with into this topic.

Not everyone hates/dislikes the game at each and every turn and continually subjects themselves to self inflicted issues while ignoring reasonable courses of action.

silmefeawen said:
Every new player has a guild, every new player understands the game completely. It is entirely their own fault and they should just quit because they suck so badly.

Where was any of that stated?

Your frustration with the game is seemingly spilling over into your responses to responses that are providing legitimate courses of action to help prevent conflict of interest. Newer players are not as helpless as you and many others try and make them out to be.

There are Guilds recruiting in Protector's Enclave pretty much all the time. There's a menu to contact officers of Guilds that are recruiting, there are Guilds recruiting here on the forums, utilize your options...

littleknightess · March 2018

I don't run random queues as a newbie Oathbound Paladin so my exposure to these kind of situations are quite low (I only run dungeons and skirmishes according to the story map... enjoying the game's storytelling). From what I've experienced, dungeon runs are easy to start because of the system in place but those level-gated skirmishes are nigh impossible to start due to low to nonexistent queue.

Before, whenever dungeon queue popped for me, I usually had to try my best to catch up to speedsters which was quite hard, especially when they were already so fast without using their Shift key (yep, good luck catching up to Great Weapon Fighter). I don't hope to learn anything around random people that kept quiet the whole time, so I followed them until the end of the dungeon. But instead of leaving through the portal, I ran back and explored the whole dungeons (except for a pirate themed dungeon since there is no way to get out from the boss' ship).

I was lucky that no one complained about my speed but I do still wanted to at least land a hit on the bosses before my party members melts through them.

So... instead of asking people to slow down for my sake, I ran some searches online and started to slot some cheap runes (or was it enchantment? I am still quite clueless about the system) that gave me move speed, into gears that have move speed on them.

Nowadays I can catch up to most if not all of them. Then again, I rarely queue, so... eh I don't really have much of an opinion on the matter. On one hand, I am happy that I can finish my dungeon story quests without long waiting time unlike skirmishes (thankfully my class allows me to solo them, up to Aberrant Assault). On the other, I can see that most players are just doing it for their daily income and they don't really care about anything else but themselves.

Oh, outside group activities, I get to do my quests like a speedster as result. So... yay?

flippy · March 2018

just remember

by definition

daily speed runs are doing exactly what the developers have intended

now wonder why the developers wish this upon us

ilithyn · March 2018

trinity706#8838 said:
@ilithyn was waiting for someone to mention chat lockout for new accounts

trinity706#8838 said:
What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)
Chat isn't required to form a group...

Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat?

Over and over players blame the game while ignoring the tools/options right there in front of them...

Yes it locks out ALL chats, including party, guild and alliance. Tells too. You can't chat in ANY channel until it's unlocked. The guide only claims that it's zone, say, trade, LGF, but past experience has proven that it is every single channel that's locked until you complete the necessary content.
Now I agree that this may be a bug, but it's a bug that's been around since the system was implemented in 2016 so I think we can assume by now that even if it isn't wai it won't ever be fixed.

As for partying.
So... spamming random people with team invites is okay with you? To me that would feel like harassment and was one of the reasons I left WoW behind.
Also, working WITHIN a group without being able to talk is damn hard, if you can do it bully for you mate, but not everyone can. And try figuring out a new dungeon, a whole new game, new bosses, new damn everything but not being able to communicate with your team mates.
So... how do you suggest they go about that wihtout any kindn of ability

silmefeawen · March 2018

Some solutions to the AD dilemma would be to give AD to certain professions in a straight-forward manner, give AD for

trinity706#8838 said:

preechr#2215 said:
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing again
You are quite incorrect, thank you for the mention though. No need to bring your personal feelings about posts that don't repeatedly bash Cryptic that you disagree with into this topic.

Not everyone hates/dislikes the game at each and every turn and continually subjects themselves to self inflicted issues while ignoring reasonable courses of action.
silmefeawen said:
Every new player has a guild, every new player understands the game completely. It is entirely their own fault and they should just quit because they suck so badly.
Where was any of that stated?

Your frustration with the game is seemingly spilling over into your responses to responses that are providing legitimate courses of action to help prevent conflict of interest. Newer players are not as helpless as you and many others try and make them out to be.

There are Guilds recruiting in Protector's Enclave pretty much all the time. There's a menu to contact officers of Guilds that are recruiting, there are Guilds recruiting here on the forums, utilize your options...

Your "reasonable" courses of action all involve things that new players do have knowledge of/access to. So your "solutions" are worthless and can be discarded as such. You are indeed arguing for the sake of doing so.

silmefeawen · March 2018

flippy#8481 said:
just remember

by definition

daily speed runs are doing exactly what the developers have intended

now wonder why the developers wish this upon us

The obvious answer is that they don't care as long as they make bank.

flippy · March 2018

silmefeawen said:

flippy#8481 said:
just remember

by definition

daily speed runs are doing exactly what the developers have intended

now wonder why the developers wish this upon us
The obvious answer is that they don't care as long as they make bank.

so you agree

it ain't a gonna change

mornaur · March 2018

Which is why I carry thre sets of gear, for lvl 2- to 60, so when the random lvling pops, I can use lvl appropiate gear, and have a "challene" in the instance.

rafaelda · March 2018

yep i usually only run randon leveling queue with guildies, because i've done some speed runs, and i really feel bad for the leveling players

we warned about that but they released this way, i try to speed the players but not run much ahead, anyway i'm not a hardcore player so i cant be the "base" for this stuff

would be really nice if overleveled players where set away from fair leveled players in the queue, but i dont think they will work on that now...

theraxin · March 2018

I mentioned in an other forum, but as a 16k, RQ is still not acceptable. I'm kind of glad that leveling up got so fast (making rAD for me), but I still have to run random leveling dungeons for the SH quest, so still kinda forced if I want to help my guild.

On the speedrunning side, it's not just that I want to get through fast, I don't even want to be there at all! The only fun I'm having is knocking down the door on the 2. boss at CT, disintegrating him and then running in to see the cutscene closing to a green vaporising dust cloud. And that gets boring fast too. Otherwise I just burning everyone up in one-shot, because I can and rADwise I should. I could've run eToS in 7 mins for 6-10k rAD (or TONG in 20 min for at least 3-5 times much reward), so to at least 'worth' to be there, I should get it done in like 4-5 mins. That lets zero place for 'fun' because I have to push everyone forward. You know, because I want to have fun too, in other places.

The problem is that low level characters got so used to being useless in those runs that it just generated a vast afk abusers and if you are being slow, you might get accused of doing the light version of it (when they are not like full afk, but just intendedly go behind so they don't have to deal with anything).

In short, RQ generates way too much frustration to almost everyone involved.

Daily speed runs are horrible

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