Daily speed runs are horrible

preechr

Actually, @asterdahl said they had already been thinking about fixing level scaling when they implemented RQs, but they didn't want to wait on proper scaling to happen

Also, Thomas Foss indicated they were leaning toward splitting up REQ, but offered no more details or a timeline

The idea that they are somehow making money off RQ seems a bit far fetched... It may be a bit more believable that their primary goal is meeting deadlines for new content (which they are scaling back this year) and can only address the many other pain points as they have time and then according to severity

If we want the system to be fixed, we should offer complete solutions or support whatever solutions are presented so that developers have a clear picture of what would make us happy

Hundreds of frustrated posts along the lines of "Fix Random Ques now because I just had a frustrating experience with it!" do increase the sense of urgency, if anyone is paying attention, but if the player base begins to unite behind a few different approaches to fixing RQs, who knows? Maybe @kreatyve might even post up a poll for us

c1k4ml3kc3

A player who just started playing Neverwinter in MOD12-13 been called a newbie? Haaa travesty! Must inform the authorities

Seriously, though, you get to beat the dungeon with some person who helps you to clear it in no-time and that bothers you? If anything you should be thankful Cryptic even made this possible. It also helps them to earn more money because newer players will see the others who built their chars and actually be more willing to invest/play the game. For Cryptic this is a marketing strategy, and every player wins in the scenario. Virtually everyone wins.

Strong players finish it quick, get some tiny bit of AD for pots and whatnot, you see a potential build if you're a new player, you get to beat the dungeon and complete the quest in no-time and proceed to the level 70 where the real fun begins.

If you want to just explore and go on a tour then creating a private queue is also a thing. Like, there is a PRIVATE queue for specific needs. I'd never join the public queue and expect that anyone or everyone behave according to my expectations. That's just plainly rude.

Whenever I just want to enjoy the dungeons or explore (and there are such days) I start a new character anew and play with my friends who share the similar outlet or affinity towards such a thing.

The meta dictates the way it's played and it's up to you if you're a new player to get along. And Neverwinter is possibly the most rewarding MMORPG that I've seen thus far where the newcomers are treated better and better the each new mod arises. It is so easy to come by the gear and upgrade everything only to have a new player finish everything in a month or so, the only thing they can't do in such a short time without paying some money are the campaigns.

trinity706

ilithyn said:

Yes it locks out ALL chats, including party, guild and alliance. Tells too. You can't chat in ANY channel until it's unlocked. The guide only claims that it's zone, say, trade, LGF, but past experience has proven that it is every single channel that's locked until you complete the necessary content.
Now I agree that this may be a bug, but it's a bug that's been around since the system was implemented in 2016 so I think we can assume by now that even if it isn't wai it won't ever be fixed.

Nah, a number of times players new to the game (personally know some) joined a Guild and immediately could use chat Guild/Alliance chat.

The chat lockout message stated something along the lines of "Unlock trade, LFG, Zone and Say chat by completing XYZ". Even have a screenshot that states the same thing...

ilithyn said:

So... spamming random people with team invites is okay with you?

Didn't state anything about spamming invites, you did. One invite per player/character is not spamming.

ilithyn said:

Also, working WITHIN a group without being able to talk is damn hard

So... how do you suggest they go about that wihtout any kindn of ability

PC has options for voice chat (discord, etc.), console have native voice chat capabilities...

silmefeawen said:

Some solutions to the AD dilemma would be to give AD to certain professions in a straight-forward manner, give AD for

Leadership and invoking used to directly grant RAD though a number of players abused it by getting multiple characters and simply running Leadership/invoking on them.

Player behavior was a DIRECT precursor to those changes, similar to how private queuing easy content effecting queue times for other content helped prompt the RQ system though players will often enough turn two blind eyes to the player behavior that sparks various changes and blame the developers instead though when those truths and facts are mentioned hell tends to break loose...

silmefeawen said:

Your "reasonable" courses of action all involve things that new players do have knowledge of/access to.

Will assume you meant "don't" instead of "do".

How did you come across the forums? The same way you did, others can as well as well as by other means. Again, knowledge awaits those that seek it and in this day and age information is only a few clicks away.

"If thou does not know consult Father Google" LoL

trinity706

mornaur said:

Which is why I carry thre sets of gear, for lvl 2- to 60, so when the random lvling pops, I can use lvl appropiate gear, and have a "challene" in the instance.

^^^ PURE GENIUS ^^^

Creatively shaping your own RQ experience and it doesn't involve re-coding the game.

rafaelda said:

would be really nice if overleveled players where set away from fair leveled players in the queue, but i dont think they will work on that now...

If either type of player for the most part pre-grouped, that particular outcome would present itself.

mornaur said:

The problem is that low level characters got so used to being useless in those runs that it just generated a vast afk abusers and if you are being slow, you might get accused of doing the light version of it (when they are not like full afk, but just intendedly go behind so they don't have to deal with anything).

This is where CS could step in to help get rid of the abusers, but they don't and the negative behavior gets recycled back into the system. RQ would be less "painful" if those that utilize it carried their weight to the best of their ability.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

the only thing they can't do in such a short time without paying some money are the campaigns.

Agree with pretty much everything except that LoL. Know a player that is almost done with all campaigns except Chult and hasn't spent a dime for any of it.

c1k4ml3kc3

Well, Except chult is what I do refer to approx. Also, that player sleep, work, have a wife? ahah

greywynd

trinity706#8838 said:

Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat?

My understanding is, yes, it does. It applies to any and all chat channels.

trinity706

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

Well, Except chult is what I do refer to approx. Also, that player sleep, work, have a wife? ahah

(All of the above except a "wife" in the traditional sense LOL)

The player generates AD from RQ, buys the available longer campaigns (ToD, SKT, Underdark, Maze Engine) while completing the shorter ones manually (Sharandar, DR, IWD) along with RD.

Players will be players. RQ isn't as bad as some try to make it out to be, yes it could be better (for one suspending/banning accounts of those that abuse it) though a lot of it seemingly comes from players simply being "lazy". A number try to make it seem like pre-grouping is some sort of witchcraft that takes vast amounts of effort to even try, a WHOLE Guild/Alliance and a few wouldn't be up for a quick RQ, kind of hard to believe LoL.

It's back and forth, back and forth:

LLP's: "keep the high levels out, it's for lower levels only"
HLP's: "no no we want fast AD"
LLP's: "I want to explore, slow down"
HLP's: "keep up"
Neutral voice: "Pre-group and you each can get what you want"
LLP's and HLP's: _____________!!!!!! (insert backlash, obscenities, etc.)

LoL

trinity706

greywynd said:

My understanding is, yes, it does. It applies to any and all chat channels.

The chat lock out message changed at least twice, neither of the previous times mentioned/applied to to Guild/Alliance chat.

Even if the lockout currently applies to Guild/alliance chat there are other forms of communication other than in-game text chat that are alive and well rather than the "new players can't communicate" picture being painted.

greywynd

trinity706#8838 said:

(All of the above except a "wife" in the traditional sense LOL)

The player generates AD from RQ, buys the available longer campaigns (ToD, SKT, Underdark, Maze Engine) while completing the shorter ones manually (Sharandar, DR, IWD) along with RD.

Players will be players. RQ isn't as bad as some try to make it out to be, yes it could be better (for one suspending/banning accounts of those that abuse it) though a lot of it seemingly comes from players simply being "lazy". A number try to make it seem like pre-grouping is some sort of witchcraft that takes vast amounts of effort to even try, a WHOLE Guild/Alliance and a few wouldn't be up for a quick RQ, kind of hard to believe LoL.

It's back and forth, back and forth:

LLP's: "keep the high levels out, it's for lower levels only"
HLP's: "no no we want fast AD"
LLP's: "I want to explore, slow down"
HLP's: "keep up"
Neutral voice: "Pre-group and you each can get what you want"
LLP's and HLP's: _____________!!!!!! (insert backlash, obscenities, etc.)

LoL

Yep. Welcome to the "ME" generation. No one else matters.

trinity706

greywynd said:

Yep. Welcome to the "ME" generation. No one else matters.

Exactly

Rain fire and brimstone upon ye who mention that it is LoL #TruthHurts

kreatyve

Exactly what kind of poll would you want? I honestly do not thing that posting a poll will help speed up the process. Unfortunately, Cryptic is one of the smaller gaming companies, and due to this, things are extremely slow to change. It sucks, I know it, they know it, but there isn't a whole lot that can be done about it. (Please know that this is my view based on logical reasoning and may not reflect the views of Cryptic or PWE - I'm not posting in my moderator orange).

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preechr

IF players would post up their solutions for fixing RQ, we could vote on which one we liked best

Seems like a big IF though... Mostly everyone seems content with complaining about the way other people behave and demanding that it get fixed....

preechr

...since @asterdahl and Foss have both said changes would be forthcoming...

kreatyve

spunkmeier said:

kreatyve said:

Exactly what kind of poll would you want? I honestly do not thing that posting a poll will help speed up the process. Unfortunately, Cryptic is one of the smaller gaming companies, and due to this, things are extremely slow to change. It sucks, I know it, they know it, but there isn't a whole lot that can be done about it. (Please know that this is my view based on logical reasoning and may not reflect the views of Cryptic or PWE - I'm not posting in my moderator orange).

I dont think random queues can be fixed but I would like to hear what ideas your side is thinking about for fixing them.

lol, you could use my fixes but they all involve going back to old system...

I'm not a dev, so I don't know what ideas they are discussing. I just know they are discussing it.

lantern22

I don't do daily non-epic dungeons. Too boring, and for the piddly amount of additional AD its not worth the risk of ruining someones first run at a dungeon.

It's not much fun for newbies to be running behind geared up Lvl 70's.

trinity706

The thing about forums polls is that it doesn't represent the majority of the player base, it can only represent the majority of the minority of forum users.

Also the opinions of what to do are not necessarily in light of the player base as a whole. Look around at the various suggestions, they tend to be skewed/one-sided, helping some, hurting others, focusing on what a particular type wants while ignoring those of others.

A number of the suggestions simply "flip the hourglass".

ilithyn

In that case there is a widespread bug that prevents all chats from being used until chat is unlocked. I have personal experience with this and I don't see how yours is worth more than mine @trinity706#8838. Also, if they don't spam invites to other people, how do you suggest they form a team when they can't talk? I'm all ears here.

And yeah, new players should totally have to rely on third party stuff to communicate and not have the basics provided by the game they've elected to play. Sure, that's sensible.
Not!

So far I've seen nothing from you that would actually help new coming players that are locked out of chat and don't know the game.
Honestly I see no real idea in continuing this discussion with you as you've made up your mind that newcoming players are entitled HAMSTER that need to toe the line with speedrunners, or just... well I still don't know what you want them to do and frankly I'm beyond caring.

trinity706

ilithyn said:

In that case there is a widespread bug that prevents all chats from being used until chat is unlocked. I have personal experience with this and I don't see how yours is worth more than mine

ilithyn said:

And yeah, new players should totally have to rely on third party stuff to communicate and not have the basics provided by the game they've elected to play. Sure, that's sensible.
Not!

Personally shared an experience and you shared yours, no harm no foul, this isn't a competition though it still doesn't block total communication which you and others are trying to make seem is the case. The reason chat is blocked for new accounts is because of AD sellers, it's not simply to punish players or prevent them from communicating. If it's bugged to prevent all chat then it's bugged thus creating a more restrictive situation for newer players than intended, yet, there are still workarounds.

If you go to work and the elevator is broken do you go home or use the stairs?

ilithyn said:

Also, if they don't spam invites to other people, how do you suggest they form a team when they can't talk? I'm all ears here.

Let's make a clarification here, inviting multiple players once each is not spamming in the same sense as sending multiple invites to the same player.

ilithyn said:

So far I've seen nothing from you that would actually help new coming players that are locked out of chat and don't know the game.

Really? You seemingly overlooked multiple examples...

Non-text chat group making

ilithyn said:

What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

Players encouraged to visit the Arc website, Player section of Forums

trinity706#8838 said:

Players are prompted to link their game account with an Arc account repeatedly on console until they do which clearly encourages players to explore the Arc website and players on PC have multiple tabs clearly visible on the launcher "News" "Forums" "Support" "Release Notes"

On the forums there is a section named "Player Corner" hmmm...

Recruiting Guilds/Finding Recruiting Guilds

trinity706#8838 said:

There are Guilds recruiting in Protector's Enclave pretty much all the time. There's a menu to contact officers of Guilds that are recruiting, there are Guilds recruiting here on the forums

Third party voice chat options

trinity706#8838 said:

PC has options for voice chat (discord, etc.), console have native voice chat capabilities

Internet search

trinity706#8838 said:

"If thou does not know consult Father Google" LoL

You didn't see ANY of that or did you ignore it to continue being negative?

trinity706#8838 said:

Honestly I see no real idea in continuing this discussion with you as you've made up your mind that newcoming players are entitled HAMSTER that need to toe the line with speedrunners

Those are all your words, and quite negative at that.

New players are only as "helpless" as they allow themselves to be, there are pages upon pages of information on the forums, Wiki, Reddit, etc. though players have to first put the effort in to seek it. Again, players are encouraged to visit the Arc website via the game itself in various ways, it's right in their face though a number ignore it all. If new players choose not to indulge in the various information available that is their choice though players claiming that new players have no tools to help them gain a foothold and that the chat lockout out seals there communication doom are not relaying the truth.

hustin1

I've been saying this for nearly 3 years...reducing the entry requirement to 3 players was a mistake. It trivializes the content and removes any incentive for players to work together. Please...just admit the mistake and restore them back to their 5-man originals.

preechr

Textbook Troll

Just repeat the same nonsense over and over and giggle at all the attention given by those that try to talk sense

Post-History, people... look it up and stop wasting your time feeding the troll

greywynd

@trinity706#8838

Why should a new player have to go outside of the game to find a platform that would allow them to communicate in game?

Most people I am aware of would, and usual do, decline blind invites. If I don't know where you are planning on going/doing, why should I sign on? If such happens repeatedly the sender will most likely end up on the ignored list.

Come to the forums here, sure, but elsewhere on the net? They shouldn't have to. The game and the forums here should be inclusive enough.

trinity706

In the case of Neverwinter, if the text chat is locked as intended (trade, LFG, Zone, say) instead of all channels including Guild and Alliance until a certain point(s) is/are reached to help prevent AD spammers, the means are to justify the end (prevent particular chat spamming), is it the best course of action, eh, though it does serve it's purpose, how well depends on who is judging.

If Guild/Alliance chat works "as intended" in spite of the text chat lockout as it had in the past then the sooner a new player joins a Guild they could begin using text chat to communicate with others, again, it was an offered solution.

New players don't have to go outside the game to communicate, they can very well continue with locked text chat until they unlock it if they choose though players with locked text chat and even those with unlocked chat can benefit from utilizing voice chat since it is often enough more convenient to speak while playing rather than stopping to type. On console (at least) there is in-game, group voice chat as well as console party chat. Locked text chat was mentioned as a barrier and going outside of the game was offered as an option to work around the text chat restriction for new accounts.

Often enough players in Alliance chat complain about others not chatting as if players can play and type in the chat window at the same time, voice chat allows simultaneous communication and play.

New players with locked chat inviting others around them to a group was offered as a solution to those that want an at level experience in regard to RQ. Not everyone will decline invites though if none are sent there definitely wouldn't be the opportunity for others to possibly accept.

The forums have lots of information though other sites/sources have information as well that may or may not be present on the forums (and also structured differently), again, it is an option new players can utilize for their added benefit.

Do players have to perform any of the provided suggestions, no, though just because they don't work exactly how people think/feel they should doesn't mean that they can't/aren't beneficial to utilize.

theraxin

Quick and easy fixes for the random queue or just in que:

1, Exclude IG from the random Skirmishes at lvl 70.

2, Duplicate IG in the normal Skirmishes to a Bronze and Gold runs. If there's time, differentiate the 2 skirmish, so you can't go further than bronze or less than Gold in the appropiate content.

3, Exclude FBI/MSP from Epic random.

4, Reduce all kick/abandon to 5 min and in every hour, instead of 4 hours.

5, Change the Stronghold random normal Dungeon quest to random "normal Dungeon or Epic trial".

6, Tone up the random Epic dungeon and random Epic trial rAD with 3k for the first attempt. They are just much harder to do than the other 2.

7, Every dungeon/skirmish that not in the random que should give more rAD.

Edit: Wrote random where it was necessary.

therealprotex

silmefeawen said:

You are passing judgement on others based on your own expectations. How does one make friends in a game where you don't know anyone? Would you be kind enough to write a tutorial so new players can find and use it?

As for experienced players helping new ones; LOL! People are not going to help anyone else unless they get something out of it that is more valuable than the reward already being given. Even then, high level players probably won't be willing to help. I have literally tried asking for help only to be told to just catch up.

You are passing judgement on others based on your own experience only? How is that better than what you accuse @trinity706#8838 of? And btw, your experience deceives you. There are many high(er) leveled and experienced players who help new players in dungeons. Me included. However, so far I am yet to meet a new player who appreciates the help or even reacts to tells. (I am not complaining.)

silmefeawen said:

The devs need to either remove AD from the equation altogether,

Noone except new players would run leveling dungeons then and the only goal that RQs did reach, short queue times, would be undone.

silmefeawen said:

only group people who are actually the same level,

I seriously doubt that this would help truely new players unless they are lucky to run with a low leveled but experienced player. Which could then lead to a speed run again.

silmefeawen said:

or drop everyone to the same level, gear score, and abilities.

That's the only solution, aside from removing RQs again, that could work and as far as I know the devs are working on a better downgrading (I think it was mentioned in another thread).

marv700

Seriously, stop with all this nonsense about speedruns and the random queue. The developers have clearly stated this is working as intended and they have no intention of changing it. They know this game better than anyone despite the fact that they never play it, so stop trying to second guess them.

inugurl

Yea, I don't care much for the way RQ's work either. I don't think anyone really does. We do it for the guild shards, the ad or both. But when I do them I try to remember what it was like as a new player. I loved exploring the dungeons and finding all the little secrets. I always check IL's when I get in and even though I cant communicate with the lowbie(s) Ill stay close to them and let them do some attacking. That's the fun part. I can honestly say that that's the way my guild operates. We want to help other players enjoy the experience too. Now that being said when I can talk to them I will ask them if they want me to just mow everything down. Its about half the time that the response is to speed run it.

I've also done that jump once for yes twice for no thing. It works.

chidion

silmefeawen said:

I would like to suggest that player item and skills be brought down to the level of the dungeon. Dropping player level is not nearly enough. Unless all players can be put on truly equal footing in dungeons there will never be the chance for low-level players to truly enjoy them.

^^^^^^ Yes this definitely. In addition to suggesting some dungeons be restricted to specific character level and item level characters, I've also suggested everyone entering specific content have their movement attributes standardized regardless of gear or boon enchantments.

Another game I played (two worlds) had temporary standardized gear for each player depending on their character class whenever they entered certain content (their original gear was returned when the left the content), everybody was equally powerful and equally fast due to the content provided gear each player received and the game required teamwork and much more tactics related skills for the party to successfully win their way through the content.

No one had a manufactured advantage due to special gear, weapons or outside influence enchantments.

trinity706

Solution:

- If you want a particular type of experience (exploration/at level or speedrun) pre-group.
- If you don't care what type of experience you get and can adapt to either type of experience RQ solo.

No re-coding necessary or forcing those that have achieved higher plateaus back down though "well enough" seemingly isn't enough and LLP's players want the HLP's type to suffer in one way or another.

For the most part once a player reach lvl 70 for instance they are NOT going to want to run normal dungeon RQ's while having their stats/abilities dropped to the point that they are essentially back at that particular level range, if that was the case HLP's would probably be switching to lower quality equipment left and right to try and preserve the "at level experience"...

15+ minute ND RQ's EACH time for a few thousand RAD would be quite unbecoming. Those are the type of suggestions that are selfish at the core and essentially not thought out. While the LLP's "may" get the experience they are seeking due to forcing others down to their level it harms the HLP's and when the LLP's that want such a system become HLP's personally would love to know how many are going to like the system that forced others down to their level when it forces them back down to the level of newer LLP's...

ND RQ's fire off quickly in part due to the time they are consistently completed by having HLP's in them. Forcing consistent 15+ minute runs will tie up 3 characters each, 6 sets of 100 ND RQ's would tie up 1.8k players for around 15 minutes and seeing as how quickly ND RQ's pop "100" is a very low number to use as an example. An at level IG run can take 30+ minutes to complete and will tie up 5 characters (around 45+ minutes from personal experience with varying level group members)...

There are ALREADY level specific niche queues that become natively unavailable once a character reaches the next level range...

Blacklake Terror - 8
Orc Assault - 13
Storming the Keep - 23
Straight to Helm - 31
Defend the Temple - 36
Pit Fight - 39
Garrundar the Vile - 44
Storm Front - 47
Gate Crashers - 51
Defend the Village - 54
Battle for the Bridge - 55
Aberrant Assault - 59

Those queues are SPECIFIC for LLP's and are essentially/consistently free from HLP's because they are no longer available for HLP's to natively queue for. A number of players haven't even experienced them let alone know they exist...

Though since suggestions are being made, how about LLP's:

Get to level 30, unlock loadouts/text chat, switch to the new loadout spec it like a level 12 character, equip lower level equipment, use chat to pre-form a group (since text chat is being argued as essentially the ONLY way to make a group) and RQ so that they can get they "at level" experience they are seeking...

No excuse not to be able to enjoy what they are wanting without infringing on HLP's right? Wrong, of course there will be.

Arguably the majority of HLP's don't want to repeat an at level experience of lower level content, the LLP's that want it have various means to achieve such an experience without affecting HLP's, can't understand why a number of players want to force it onto everyone else...