How many times have you been vote kicked when queuing with Guild/Alliance members, or do you seemingly just solo queue like some of the others that complain? (just asking)
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
@silmefeawen It would probably help if you listed your character level and item level just as a point of reference...
According to the Neverwinter Wiki The Gray Wolf Den is appropriate for "level 36-70 characters", but the "normal character level" is stated as "41" so essentially it is a level 41 dungeon run.
Not knowing the circumstances beyond what you posted, there have been several similar threads and posted comments from players being kicked from a party by players who have abandoned them and left mobs for them to contend with then kicked them out for what ever reason.
But I am curious, did either of the players you say who ran off attempt to communicate with you in any way? Did you try to communicate with them to let them know you were having to fight mobs they left behind?
I have read the kick out timer is set for 15 minutes and according to the random queue "estimated play time" for players is a very generous 30 minutes but I'm guessing this is for players acting in concert as a party (regardless of level) - not some players running through ignoring mobs just because they can and players with lower attributes having to fight their way through every mob without the rest of the party or in your stated case solo.
I understand that there are some players out there who are only interested in running randoms for the AD but not every player runs randoms only for AD's - and no, queuing for a dungeon that does not award AD or pre-grouping with other players prior to entering random content is no more appropriate for those actually seeking the dungeon experience than it is for those only running those dungeons for astral diamonds.
Just because some players are stacked with speed enhancements or gear many times over the minimum or even suggested character level for that content and the only reason they are there is for the comparatively large AD payout, that doesn't make it okay for them to abandon other party members, run past mobs leaving them for the slower players and especially not okay to try kicking those players out because of a situation they've placed those other party members in... as far as I'm concerned and in neither instance is it OK to kick out another party member after placing them in a position where they have to attempt to run the dungeon as a solo player instead of a party member.
That's why I personally think the player option to kick out another player needs to be completely removed, except in for instances of another player being AFK or Disconnected. If a player is unhappy with how another party member is playing they don't want to leave and suffer a leaver penalty hampering their ability to farm AD's - but some people think it is absolutely appropriate to kick out another party member and deny them their AD reward.
That being said as player running a lower level character, please try to make sure your gear is as good as you can make it, at least level appropriate, don't run randoms with "trash characters" say a level 67 character with level 15 (or lower) gear and expect the rest of the party to "carry you", I've personally seen instances of this as well.
Interesting how some people feel the need to try to explain what another poster really "means" when they post a statement, even if their interpretation attempt is flawed at best - and a total misinterpretation at worst...
What I actually meant in my statement is exactly what I posted which in it's entirety reads;
I understand that there are some players out there who are only interested in running randoms for the AD but not every player runs randoms only for AD's - and no, queuing for a dungeon that does not award AD or pre-grouping with other players prior to entering random content is no more appropriate for those actually seeking the dungeon experience than it is for those only running those dungeons for astral diamonds.
Pre-grouping is appropriate for whomever wishes to control their RQ experience. It will help ensure neither speed runs nor explorations are hindered.
Solo queuing RQ's AND complaining about the results is quite the contradiction.
Most players simply solo RQ and go from there which creates a mixed pool of players and a higher probability of conflicting agendas while pre-grouping helps reduce the probability of conflict to a much smaller number.
"The road less traveled" in regard to RQ's is essentially free from dissonance and wouldn't require infringing on any type of player whether they be a speed runner or an explorer.
Not to mention not all LLP's seek an at level experience, a number of them want to speed run as well, with that being stated a considerably small number of players are seeking various changes to force an at level experience onto the REST of the player base and that plight isn't even supported by the majority, let alone a considerable amount of LLP's...
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
If posting on the forums is that much a hurdle typing in-game chat should be as well since it encompasses essentially the same actions...
The small bit of effort should more than justify the benefits/opportunities gained by doing so and getting into a Guild, smh. Seeing more and more why players want the system changed, they refuse to put in a small amount of effort to gain so much more.
Compare the game population to the forum population. You will see that the forum population is significantly smaller, so one can extrapolate that no, new players don't automatically migrate to the forums to get questions answered and to join a guild.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
I blame the devs for not having a quicker kick timer as these other two players would have been waiting for close to ten minutes doing nothing while waiting for a player who is useless and who, as they have stated, needs completely carried through content.
One can argue that the 2 higher level speed runners were useless since they couldn't be bothered to make sure the whole party made it to the end relatively together.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Interesting how some people feel the need to try to explain what another poster really "means" when they post a statement, even if their interpretation attempt is flawed at best - and a total misinterpretation at worst...
What I actually meant in my statement is exactly what I posted which in it's entirety reads;
I understand that there are some players out there who are only interested in running randoms for the AD but not every player runs randoms only for AD's - and no, queuing for a dungeon that does not award AD or pre-grouping with other players prior to entering random content is no more appropriate for those actually seeking the dungeon experience than it is for those only running those dungeons for astral diamonds.
I was correcting your incorrect statement, not posting about its constructive meaning.
You are, again, attempting to state that the numbers of people running normal dungeons in the random queue for AD is less than it actually is.
You used the word "some" instead of the words "almost all" in an attempt to support your flawed position that people are doing normal dungeons in the random queue for any reason other than the AD. This is intentionally deceptive.
If you had said people "running dungeons" instead of "running randoms" then you would be correct because people running dungeons for no AD reward cannot be accused of running dungeons for the AD reward, and this is self evident.
However, you said "randoms" and this means they are intentionally choosing to run for the rewards given by random queue which in this case is primarily AD. It is safe to say that people would not be doing dungeons or skirmishes if there was no reward, and as evidence for this you can ask people or look at the vast numbers of posters who state that they are doing dungeons for the AD (or doing content X for reward Y, in general).
Yes, there are seal rewards and experience rewards but, again, almost no one does these for the experience and the seals are a bonus are not the primary reason for running random queues. People might run normal dungeon random queues for either/both seals or experience, I have never heard of anyone actually doing them for these reasons but as there are weird people it is safe to assume that at least one person has 'suddenly' decided that seals and/or experience is the core reason they are doing normal dungeon random queues.
There are also people who claim to run dungeons for aesthetic purposes, enjoyment, or to help others. There are not many of them, excluding forum posters who may or may not be lying to support their positions, but I have never met anyone in game who does normal dungeon random queues with any of these reasons as their primary purpose, almost all people do normal dungeon random queues for the AD and this is the.
So I said "some" players are running random content solely for AD's and "not every player is running random content only for AD's" and you claim it was an incorrect statement.
Again apparently trying to explain what I really meant -vs- what I actually said... I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
I don't think I can make it any more clear.
The guild cleric gives a few quests, one being random dungeons, the others are random skirmishes and epic's so your premise that only people running random dungeons are the ones not running for other than AD purposes is an undeniably false premise.
Some players run that content because they have been given a quest to do so.
Also random queues are not primarily for AD's for all players, to prove my point I frequently run random content with my lower level characters primarily for the chance of obtaining better gear for my character - the AD's are just an additional bonus I wouldn't have received if I queued for other than random content so it makes little sense to run other than random content for half of the reward I would get by running random content even if my primary purpose for doing to is not the AD's.
You say the "seals are just a bonus" as far as you're concerned... what gives your statement any more validity than mine saying AD's are "just a bonus"? None that I can think of.
In closing, nice to meet you... I also like to run random content for "aesthetics", the Cryptic team did a great job putting those dungeons and skirmishes together and often find little bits of aesthetics I missed on previous runs. Not only that but I actually enjoy helping out other players more thoroughly experience the content if I can and I still occasionally learn tips and tricks to make all of the content flow more smoothly, (other than just running through ignoring a lot of things) experience that I can also pass along to other players if I have the opportunity.
Now you claim people saying that are lying to try to support their position, in my opinion that just shows how little you actually know as opposed to how much you think you know.
I'm one of those slow, under-equipped players that normally doesn't come to the forums, but since the servers are down, I'll take a moment to do so. My playing time is very limited and when I have time to play, I play. I'm working on my Master's and the last thing I want to do during play time is study. I have the best equipment I can get through the random loot of quests. It looks like I need AD to do any better and RQ is the only option I've seen. Thus, my goals are the same as the high level players--get it done quickly. My best experience was one where I never even saw a monster or my party members until I caught up with them at the point where they had to wait (Note to self: hotkey injury kits for dungeon runs). I think I at least managed one hit on the boss before they killed it. If I want a dungeon experience, I can either solo it or form a group.
I suppose at some point I'll be kicked from a party because I can't keep up but unless it becomes a regular thing, I think the system is okay as is. I wonder if there would be a way that only casual or low IL players had an alternate way to get AD so we could close the gap, something that couldn't be farmed by power players which would widen the gap.
My best experience was one where I never even saw a monster or my party members until I caught up with them at the point where they had to wait (Note to self: hotkey injury kits for dungeon runs). I think I at least managed one hit on the boss before they killed it. If I want a dungeon experience, I can either solo it or form a group.
You lucked out. If you'd been dropped in with a pair of speed scummers, they would have grudgingly killed the checkpoint foes and left you to wade neck deep through all the mobs they outran, guffawed as they watched you bleed HP - and if you were unable to tank through the lot or had to clear out level entrances in order to proceed, you'd've had a decent chance of getting kicked before you could reach the afk zone.
Got no problem with speed runners who actually give LLPs a fighting chance. But speed scummers are leading contributors to the Universal Suck that afflicts us all - along with the jerks who try to steal your relics, poach your portal hounds, and park their dinosaurs right on top of whoever it is you need to talk to. They're also the ones IRL who leave the grocery cart in the middle of the aisle while they dither between Fruit Loops and Count Chocula, don't see why they should have to use their turning signals, and derive a great deal of pleasure from not tipping the waitstaff.
What would happen if they just let players port into the boss fight as they arrived? Not having to wait for the rest of the party would solve all sorts of problems.
Comments
How many times have you been vote kicked when queuing with Guild/Alliance members, or do you seemingly just solo queue like some of the others that complain? (just asking)
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
According to the Neverwinter Wiki The Gray Wolf Den is appropriate for "level 36-70 characters", but the "normal character level" is stated as "41" so essentially it is a level 41 dungeon run.
Not knowing the circumstances beyond what you posted, there have been several similar threads and posted comments from players being kicked from a party by players who have abandoned them and left mobs for them to contend with then kicked them out for what ever reason.
But I am curious, did either of the players you say who ran off attempt to communicate with you in any way? Did you try to communicate with them to let them know you were having to fight mobs they left behind?
I have read the kick out timer is set for 15 minutes and according to the random queue "estimated play time" for players is a very generous 30 minutes but I'm guessing this is for players acting in concert as a party (regardless of level) - not some players running through ignoring mobs just because they can and players with lower attributes having to fight their way through every mob without the rest of the party or in your stated case solo.
I understand that there are some players out there who are only interested in running randoms for the AD but not every player runs randoms only for AD's - and no, queuing for a dungeon that does not award AD or pre-grouping with other players prior to entering random content is no more appropriate for those actually seeking the dungeon experience than it is for those only running those dungeons for astral diamonds.
Just because some players are stacked with speed enhancements or gear many times over the minimum or even suggested character level for that content and the only reason they are there is for the comparatively large AD payout, that doesn't make it okay for them to abandon other party members, run past mobs leaving them for the slower players and especially not okay to try kicking those players out because of a situation they've placed those other party members in... as far as I'm concerned and in neither instance is it OK to kick out another party member after placing them in a position where they have to attempt to run the dungeon as a solo player instead of a party member.
That's why I personally think the player option to kick out another player needs to be completely removed, except in for instances of another player being AFK or Disconnected. If a player is unhappy with how another party member is playing they don't want to leave and suffer a leaver penalty hampering their ability to farm AD's - but some people think it is absolutely appropriate to kick out another party member and deny them their AD reward.
That being said as player running a lower level character, please try to make sure your gear is as good as you can make it, at least level appropriate, don't run randoms with "trash characters" say a level 67 character with level 15 (or lower) gear and expect the rest of the party to "carry you", I've personally seen instances of this as well.
What I actually meant in my statement is exactly what I posted which in it's entirety reads;
Solo queuing RQ's AND complaining about the results is quite the contradiction.
Most players simply solo RQ and go from there which creates a mixed pool of players and a higher probability of conflicting agendas while pre-grouping helps reduce the probability of conflict to a much smaller number.
"The road less traveled" in regard to RQ's is essentially free from dissonance and wouldn't require infringing on any type of player whether they be a speed runner or an explorer.
Not to mention not all LLP's seek an at level experience, a number of them want to speed run as well, with that being stated a considerably small number of players are seeking various changes to force an at level experience onto the REST of the player base and that plight isn't even supported by the majority, let alone a considerable amount of LLP's...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Again apparently trying to explain what I really meant -vs- what I actually said... I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
I don't think I can make it any more clear.
The guild cleric gives a few quests, one being random dungeons, the others are random skirmishes and epic's so your premise that only people running random dungeons are the ones not running for other than AD purposes is an undeniably false premise.
Some players run that content because they have been given a quest to do so.
Also random queues are not primarily for AD's for all players, to prove my point I frequently run random content with my lower level characters primarily for the chance of obtaining better gear for my character - the AD's are just an additional bonus I wouldn't have received if I queued for other than random content so it makes little sense to run other than random content for half of the reward I would get by running random content even if my primary purpose for doing to is not the AD's.
You say the "seals are just a bonus" as far as you're concerned... what gives your statement any more validity than mine saying AD's are "just a bonus"? None that I can think of.
In closing, nice to meet you... I also like to run random content for "aesthetics", the Cryptic team did a great job putting those dungeons and skirmishes together and often find little bits of aesthetics I missed on previous runs. Not only that but I actually enjoy helping out other players more thoroughly experience the content if I can and I still occasionally learn tips and tricks to make all of the content flow more smoothly, (other than just running through ignoring a lot of things) experience that I can also pass along to other players if I have the opportunity.
Now you claim people saying that are lying to try to support their position, in my opinion that just shows how little you actually know as opposed to how much you think you know.
I suppose at some point I'll be kicked from a party because I can't keep up but unless it becomes a regular thing, I think the system is okay as is. I wonder if there would be a way that only casual or low IL players had an alternate way to get AD so we could close the gap, something that couldn't be farmed by power players which would widen the gap.
Got no problem with speed runners who actually give LLPs a fighting chance.
But speed scummers are leading contributors to the Universal Suck that afflicts us all - along with the jerks who try to steal your relics, poach your portal hounds, and park their dinosaurs right on top of whoever it is you need to talk to. They're also the ones IRL who leave the grocery cart in the middle of the aisle while they dither between Fruit Loops and Count Chocula, don't see why they should have to use their turning signals, and derive a great deal of pleasure from not tipping the waitstaff.
Not having to wait for the rest of the party would solve all sorts of problems.