So u want the developer to change the game just because u cant make ur own que? Its like, just because our mother gave us attention when we cry, doest mean that we have to cry everytime to get her attention. She got things to do too and we are going to grow up one way or another. I m sure there is a reason that the developer has not done something about it. I mean this problem already exist long before RQ system is introduced. Since like mod 7 or 8? And its not hard to make a 3 man level70 party to que for it. I dont see any reason to make it more complicated.
Sure I CAN make my own queue. But I CAN NOT be forced to do. And your point is invalid as every single problem we have now were known BEFORE the random queues were implemented. Those of us who care told the devs after their first announcement that RQs are a bad idea and why. But they did not listen yet. If we only achieve to be heard by fighting here in the forums about who's the bad guy in LLP vs HLP - so be it. I will not waste my time looking for a premade group in the PE for content that I can run easily while falling asleep at the keyboard - which was possible before the RQs by running private queues. And depending on my daily mood, I will sometimes help LLPs in the dungeons and sometimes I'll run door to door. The more complaining the more likely that the devs will listen. So keep fighting on.
In the old times I made my own groups. Told the others, what kind of behavior I wont tolerate, warned them and kicked them, if they did misbehave (greed runs, anyone remembers?). Grouped with idiots I just left and joined another group.
Now I HAVE to run ramdom que, to get RAD. I cant kick anyone for some time or at all and if the offending party is clever enough to que qith a likeminded friend never.
This was all implemented to reduce antisocial and griefing behavior. Now we have to tolerate antisocial and griefing behavior or get a leavers penalty. Good job.
So u want the developer to change the game just because u cant make ur own que? Its like, just because our mother gave us attention when we cry, doest mean that we have to cry everytime to get her attention. She got things to do too and we are going to grow up one way or another. I m sure there is a reason that the developer has not done something about it. I mean this problem already exist long before RQ system is introduced. Since like mod 7 or 8? And its not hard to make a 3 man level70 party to que for it. I dont see any reason to make it more complicated.
Sure I CAN make my own queue. But I CAN NOT be forced to do. And your point is invalid as every single problem we have now were known BEFORE the random queues were implemented. Those of us who care told the devs after their first announcement that RQs are a bad idea and why. But they did not listen yet. If we only achieve to be heard by fighting here in the forums about who's the bad guy in LLP vs HLP - so be it. I will not waste my time looking for a premade group in the PE for content that I can run easily while falling asleep at the keyboard - which was possible before the RQs by running private queues. And depending on my daily mood, I will sometimes help LLPs in the dungeons and sometimes I'll run door to door. The more complaining the more likely that the devs will listen. So keep fighting on.
The entire point of the RQ system was to help lower level people get into the leveling dungeons, so if everyone formed their own 3-5 player groups to run RQs, that would have to be "fixed," likely by forcing players to solo que
Pre-mades are probably considered a way to exploit the system if you consider the original intent
In the old times I made my own groups. Told the others, what kind of behavior I wont tolerate, warned them and kicked them, if they did misbehave (greed runs, anyone remembers?). Grouped with idiots I just left and joined another group.
Now I HAVE to run ramdom que, to get RAD. I cant kick anyone for some time or at all and if the offending party is clever enough to que qith a likeminded friend never.
This was all implemented to reduce antisocial and griefing behavior. Now we have to tolerate antisocial and griefing behavior or get a leavers penalty. Good job.
In the old times you made groups because once you reached a certain level, you could not queue for lower level content. Forming a party & walking in the front door was the only way in for end-game players. You would think they would remember this, & be appreciative that the devs let them skip that step, but nooooo.... this is why we can't have nice things.
So it sounds like you are having a lot of bad luck spunkmeier. Either that or the cosmos is trying to tell you to go run Epic Dungeons for items you can salvage and give up on the low level RQs. I have run several clock towers this week and never had this kind of delay but then again, it could just be my luck vs yours.
What I have experianced a lot of this week are the people who are "disconnected" in the first moments of the dungeon. Not really sure what is driving all these though.
Sandu, you hit that nail right on, other MMO such as Elderscrolls, they allow mixed level characters to have fun and share, mobs scaled, and eq2 has "mentorship" for high level to assist lower level characters, otherwise loots wouldnt be any good, except for achievements.
Trips, please dont make that suggession, how do i able to help low levels if i have time, it would forced them out and not wanting for their effort. they might be looking for elusive rare drops or trying to complete a matching set since they outgrew so fast.
my suggestion that i liked DCUO's tokens for redo your favorite dungeon run if you didnt get unique item dropped. Eq2 has other version, you can repeat same dungeon once a day until you find elusive item.
since we have many dungeons and we cant do those again, why wasted all those :"ONE-SHOT" runs, those became ghosttown and unused, only for newer players and new alts.
Elderscrolls was much better, they allow characters when they were lower levels as 27th level and you find 27th level gears, and weeks later after you hit 50 lvl and come back to same old dungeon and you get new 50 lvl drops.
personally, for Throne of Ildris, rewrite a new story with new mobs and less buggy, just clear out that exisiting dungeons and replace with all new similar mobs and have new skills for that boss. becaise those old ones are broken. make 2 versions, normal for regular low levels and elite for 70s.
Here is the perfect solution to those losers that just run thru and leave you behind.. make sure you have the speed to keep up with them first of all..dont kill anything..make as many eneimies as possible follow you.. eventually they get to a door or a boss that they need you with them.. once you get there.. run up and stand right by them.. and then do just enough to stay alive..but make them do the rest.. at the final boss.. stand off to the side..make them do it for YOU for a change..they love that!!!
You know whats even worse than a high level player running thru doing nothing?? Some idiot level 13 player thinking they can do it..I just had that happen.. its easy to teach them a lesson though..run ahead of them and leave evenything behind for them to deal with..EVERYONE in these dungeons should do their part..if not..make them pay... what the devs should do is let people solo those dungeons and still get the AD..but nooooooo..that would solve to many problems. I have no problem carrying a party of low level players with my level 70..as long as they are trying..otherwise..I'm just going to let them get smoked.
I just had a new experiance for me. We entered the RQ, two seconds in, one person disconnects. That leaves two of us. The other person was marked as a first time person. They kept running ahead just like belzar describbed, then they would die. They would click before I could get to them and respawn back at the start. We kept progressing with me clearing out stuff and them running to get back and then die again. I offered to work with them, I even had some extra equipment that would benifit them but they refussed to communicte either in chat or with voice. After about their seventh death they disconnected as well. This left me by myself with two black circles that said disconnected. They just would not drop. So I abandoned the dungeon and took the hand slap.
The incontinent truth as I see it is some players, with more experienced and better equipped characters, have other options for acquiring astral diamonds.
Most low level, poorly equipped players can't go to the Dread Ring, Sharandar, Tyranny of Dragon or higher quests where they can pick up items salvageable for astral diamonds, or drops that sell for a pretty good price on the auction house...
Most higher level more experienced players can - but don't - go to those other areas , presumably because they consider those other areas and the tasks they must perform a little more difficult or time consuming than running what they figure will be a quick and easy random dungeon for AD payout at the end, and there is nothing really wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.
But what I do objectionable is some players trying to claim lower level and less experienced players are HAMSTER up their dungeon run experienced because they have to "carry" or wait for lower level players.
Some players claim they are unhappy because they have to wait a minute or two for other players to catch up, some have complained because they have to actually confront mobs instead of running past them, or try to give less experienced players advice on how best to navigate in a particular dungeon, which just means they have to wait a little longer before their end game payout...
I think that pretty much speaks for itself.
I also have read some commendable comments from some players who have stated they leave no party member behind, they try to give advice when they believe it is warranted and haven't as I've noticed complained about having to "carry", "baby sit" or wait for other members of their party...
I think that too pretty much speaks for itself.
I won't even try to address the comment that some believe a few opinions deserve more consideration simply because they've "spent money on a game"...
It is what it is.
Love all of this! We were all level 12 at some point. I just don't get the "too bad so sad" mentality regarding lowbies I've seen in some of the posts.
As far as being kicked for anything other than AFK, it sucks. It happened to me when my now 70 HR was new. The two I was PUG'ed with raced ahead, which I could have dealt with if they had bothered to help clear the mobs, but nope, they left the majority to me, leaving me waaaaaaaay behind and struggling. When I was almost caught up to the end--BOOT!--out I went. To say I was beyond annoyed is an understatement.
On the flip side, it did teach me to be uber aware of the people I'm PUG'ed with in the RQ: are the struggling, can they handle themselves, or do they just want to speed run? I try to adapt myself to the "mood" of the party. It costs me no more time and trouble to do so and no one gets left behind.:)
Arielle Redbow half-elf Warden Ranger Guild: Guardians of the Forest
I'm guilty of the running ahead in leveling dungeons, but I make it a point on whatever toons I'm forced to run with to generate AD to clear mobs so that those running behind don't have to deal with them as the other 2 are likely not geared enough to rush thru. I know leveling players are running the dungeons to enjoy them, but we're forced to run stuff we don't want to in order generate AD.
Its a bad situation that should be fixed, but until then I'll just continue doing it that way and angrily kill stuff I don't wanna be around to try and make it as quick as possible for everyone involved.
HR: Vretzen GWF: Vretzina OP: Vee DC: Evee CW: nezterV
I'm guilty of the running ahead in leveling dungeons, but I make it a point on whatever toons I'm forced to run with to generate AD to clear mobs so that those running behind don't have to deal with them as the other 2 are likely not geared enough to rush thru. I know leveling players are running the dungeons to enjoy them, but we're forced to run stuff we don't want to in order generate AD.
Its a bad situation that should be fixed, but until then I'll just continue doing it that way and angrily kill stuff I don't wanna be around to try and make it as quick as possible for everyone involved.
Running a low level, I have no problem if a high level is running ahead as long as they clear the mobs. I figure my job then is to just run to the end. But the a-holes that run past mobs so that they swarm the low levels behind is just BS. And to add insult to injury, voting to kick the low level after they have died a few times trying to make it through the mobs alone right when they get to the end is epic d-bag behavior.
> @"trinity706#8838" said: > @dionchi, @chemjeff, @mamalion1234, others > - Low level players wanting to get the "full" experience of leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no higher level players "ruining" their experience. > > - High level players wanting to speed run leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no lower level players slowing them down.
So, basically, Your argument amounts to "If you don't have friends, then tough titties kiddo?"
Too bad they don't have some place for folks to ask for help in the low level dungeons so they could find friends and group up. I would not mind helping a lowbie experiance a dungeon and thus bypass the Speedrunners their first time through the dungeon.
> - Low level players wanting to get the "full" experience of leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no higher level players "ruining" their experience.
>
> - High level players wanting to speed run leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no lower level players slowing them down.
So, basically, Your argument amounts to "If you don't have friends, then tough titties kiddo?"
Or you play the MMO with basic etiquette, note who is in your random party and if they are keeping up or falling behind. There really is no point in racing to the end as you will not complete till the slowest member crosses the line. Frankly just hanging just in front of the party might encourage them to keep moving and not poking around but if you are long gone there is no carrot or stick.
I ran into a new situation this weekend in the random dungeon queue. It was The Frozen Heart, and one of the other players left the instance somehow but was still in party. I don't know what method they used to leave, if it was the door or a VIP signpost, but their party portrait showed them in a couple different zones while the other person and I worked our way through the dungeon. This person was not responding to party chat or /tells so we ended up sitting at the door to the boss for about 6 or 7 minutes waiting for the ability to vote kick. When the time hit 15 minutes I initiated a vote kick, but it timed out and failed because the other person with me at the boss door did not respond to it. I finally had to abandon instance, wasting ~20 minutes of my time. At least I didn't get a leaver penalty!
> - Low level players wanting to get the "full" experience of leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no higher level players "ruining" their experience.
>
> - High level players wanting to speed run leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no lower level players slowing them down.
So, basically, Your argument amounts to "If you don't have friends, then tough titties kiddo?"
Or you play the MMO with basic etiquette, note who is in your random party and if they are keeping up or falling behind. There really is no point in racing to the end as you will not complete till the slowest member crosses the line. Frankly just hanging just in front of the party might encourage them to keep moving and not poking around but if you are long gone there is no carrot or stick.
This must be some new definition of "basic" that I am unaware of... how many of the posts on the last 7 pages fit this definition?
I love this kind of discussions. Some ppl think, that it is not ok, to que up for a dungeon with a toon, that cant contribute/ survive. Others are furious, bc some players did not clear the dungeon for them while the 3rd party says, that everyone can play as they want, as long as they stick to some rules and state these rules, as if they are set in stone.
I think, that we can all agree on a few points. To force a disconnect, go AFK or try to force other player, to play the way YOU want is a selfish move. Based on that rule, I would clear a non epic dungeon, if I would bother with it. Based on the same rule, I iniciate vote kicks on AFK players and I write reports on ppl, who join up, change character and reenter before we are able to kick them and grab their loot. I dont want to waste your time, but please dont waste mine.
Here is a point we have to agree, to disagree. I am not your nanny. If you que up for an epic dungeon, CN, MC, EGWD you should be able to contribute somehow, at last survive two mobs and know how to press 'w'. If you have to go AFK and the respawn at the campfire of VT kills you again and again, bc you could not be bothered, to run with the group, it is not my problem (well I have to wait, but I dont feel bad for you). I can abandon an instance at any time of my choosing. I dont have to run a dungeon with you bc you asked me to. I am no elitist bc I dont want to waste my time in TONG with you and your 13k pals. Gear does matter. Sure, there are bad 17k players, but most of them know how to play and in the end a run with 5 17k players tends to be faster, then a run with a similar group at 12k. You want to have fun and spent your time doing what you like, same here.
I love this kind of discussions. Some ppl think, that it is not ok, to que up for a dungeon with a toon, that cant contribute/ survive. Others are furious, bc some players did not clear the dungeon for them while the 3rd party says, that everyone can play as they want, as long as they stick to some rules and state these rules, as if they are set in stone.
Epic dungeon queuing is really its own discussion as you are actively choosing to queue for it. I would agree with you that you should be able to survive it if you are considering it unless its your first time and you just don't know yet. Personally I would not run an epic for the first time in a random group but some people simply do not have a group to run with. I run epics with my guildies and we all stick together regardless of level but then we are all on Discord and chatting and such so its also a social thing.
The discussion began with the random queuing for normal level and mixing high and lows and the behavior of both groups. As far as people with low level toons, its not that they want others to clear the dungeon, its that if you are running ahead then clear as you go along. Leaving one here and there is not bad but not even touching the mobs as you run by and having them swarm a single low level toon trying to fight them on their own is BS. Heck, its counter productive in that if they are doing anything other than just running to the end, you are just waiting that much longer for them. If they are a OP or GF it is sometimes best to leave one or two around so they can leap toward them now and then to speed themselves (its what I do).
I am going to be "that person" who jumps in without reading all the posts. I quit checking in on this thread probably around page 4, so I haven't seen anything posted since whenever that was.
I just want to let you guys know one thing. Xbox has had 12b one day, and we're already having the same problems.
I got a Cloak Tower yesterday. All three of us were 70s, and we probably broke a record in how quickly we blew through the dungeon. It would have been funny if it wasn't for the fact that it actually felt pretty awkward. A guild mate landed in a different leveling dungeon with a low level player that had no business at all being where they were, and to hear him tell it, it was pretty painful. Lots of dying.
I see the point behind the queues. I really do. However, this version of them is not enjoyable.
A guild mate landed in a different leveling dungeon with a low level player that had no business at all being where they were....
And thus we see part of the problem behind the mess that is the RQ. A low level player in a low leveling dungeon messed up a 70 level speed runner's AD farming so I bet neither had a good time and the whole experience was ruined.
I just noticed a point of interest, probably a hold over from when level appropriate players went into level appropriate dungeons...
At the bottom of the queue screen it clearly states "estimated play time..." from 15 to 30 minutes, yet we have people complaining when a dungeon run takes longer than 5 minutes.
This seems to reaffirm my supposition that the problem seems to be less with the dungeon - or the players that might need or even want to take some time to explore and experience their enviromnent and more to do with the people who seem to think a 15 to 30 minute dungeon should be run in 5 minutes, give or take.
My suggestion would be to put a timer on the final gate at the end where it absolutely will not open, even if all party members are assembled, for "x" minutes (15 minute dungeon - 10 minutes, 30 minute dungeon - 20 minutes).
I can already imagine the negativity and complaints from some players who will claim to be inconvenienced and forced to wait a few extra minutes to collect their loot or that they wouldn't be able to run their multiple characters because of "real life responsibilities". :-p
Of course the up side of that totally eliminates any excuse for anyone to try to run through a low dungeon in 5 minutes, unless they want to spend another 5 minutes or more, just standing around cooling their heels at end. They aren't going to get the reward any more quickly.
That said, it sounds like a quick/dirty solution to a lot of these problems would be to just remove the stopping points from Randoms altogether... whoever is still in the dungeon when the final boss dies gets the RAD, and whoever is not in the dungeon at that time ends up in PE
This would not help levelers that want to experience the dungeon, but there just is not a solution for those guys until the devs actually fix level scaling like they should have done before implementing RQs in the first place
A guild mate landed in a different leveling dungeon with a low level player that had no business at all being where they were....
And thus we see part of the problem behind the mess that is the RQ. A low level player in a low leveling dungeon messed up a 70 level speed runner's AD farming so I bet neither had a good time and the whole experience was ruined.
Not at all. The low level player was in a leveling dungeon that was a few steps above where he should have been. That is why I said that player had no business being there. And that is not the fault of the low level player, so my guild mate did in fact help him. This is a random queue issue, not a speed running story.
A guild mate landed in a different leveling dungeon with a low level player that had no business at all being where they were....
And thus we see part of the problem behind the mess that is the RQ. A low level player in a low leveling dungeon messed up a 70 level speed runner's AD farming so I bet neither had a good time and the whole experience was ruined.
I thought they meant that the low level player was just too badly geared to survive as this is a very common occurrence. The "lots of dying" made me think this was what he meant.
I need to go look at the console part of the forum to see how they are enjoying random queues...
Yes. Thank you.
The Xbox forums are a good bit slower than the PC forums. There aren't many of us who post, but if you go look you will see that it is a much, much shorter version of what has been said on this side of the message boards.
Comments
Now I HAVE to run ramdom que, to get RAD. I cant kick anyone for some time or at all and if the offending party is clever enough to que qith a likeminded friend never.
This was all implemented to reduce antisocial and griefing behavior. Now we have to tolerate antisocial and griefing behavior or get a leavers penalty. Good job.
Pre-mades are probably considered a way to exploit the system if you consider the original intent
What I have experianced a lot of this week are the people who are "disconnected" in the first moments of the dungeon. Not really sure what is driving all these though.
Trips, please dont make that suggession, how do i able to help low levels if i have time, it would forced them out and not wanting for their effort.
they might be looking for elusive rare drops or trying to complete a matching set since they outgrew so fast.
my suggestion that i liked DCUO's tokens for redo your favorite dungeon run if you didnt get unique item dropped.
Eq2 has other version, you can repeat same dungeon once a day until you find elusive item.
since we have many dungeons and we cant do those again, why wasted all those :"ONE-SHOT" runs, those became ghosttown and unused, only for newer players and new alts.
Elderscrolls was much better, they allow characters when they were lower levels as 27th level and you find 27th level gears, and weeks later after you hit 50 lvl and come back to same old dungeon and you get new 50 lvl drops.
personally, for Throne of Ildris, rewrite a new story with new mobs and less buggy, just clear out that exisiting dungeons and replace with all new similar mobs and have new skills for that boss. becaise those old ones are broken.
make 2 versions, normal for regular low levels and elite for 70s.
As far as being kicked for anything other than AFK, it sucks. It happened to me when my now 70 HR was new. The two I was PUG'ed with raced ahead, which I could have dealt with if they had bothered to help clear the mobs, but nope, they left the majority to me, leaving me waaaaaaaay behind and struggling. When I was almost caught up to the end--BOOT!--out I went. To say I was beyond annoyed is an understatement.
On the flip side, it did teach me to be uber aware of the people I'm PUG'ed with in the RQ: are the struggling, can they handle themselves, or do they just want to speed run? I try to adapt myself to the "mood" of the party. It costs me no more time and trouble to do so and no one gets left behind.:)
Guild: Guardians of the Forest
Its a bad situation that should be fixed, but until then I'll just continue doing it that way and angrily kill stuff I don't wanna be around to try and make it as quick as possible for everyone involved.
GWF: Vretzina
OP: Vee
DC: Evee
CW: nezterV
Leader - Valaraukari Ascension
> @dionchi, @chemjeff, @mamalion1234, others
> - Low level players wanting to get the "full" experience of leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no higher level players "ruining" their experience.
>
> - High level players wanting to speed run leveling dungeons > group up, queue together > no lower level players slowing them down.
So, basically, Your argument amounts to "If you don't have friends, then tough titties kiddo?"
I think, that we can all agree on a few points. To force a disconnect, go AFK or try to force other player, to play the way YOU want is a selfish move. Based on that rule, I would clear a non epic dungeon, if I would bother with it. Based on the same rule, I iniciate vote kicks on AFK players and I write reports on ppl, who join up, change character and reenter before we are able to kick them and grab their loot. I dont want to waste your time, but please dont waste mine.
Here is a point we have to agree, to disagree. I am not your nanny. If you que up for an epic dungeon, CN, MC, EGWD you should be able to contribute somehow, at last survive two mobs and know how to press 'w'. If you have to go AFK and the respawn at the campfire of VT kills you again and again, bc you could not be bothered, to run with the group, it is not my problem (well I have to wait, but I dont feel bad for you). I can abandon an instance at any time of my choosing. I dont have to run a dungeon with you bc you asked me to. I am no elitist bc I dont want to waste my time in TONG with you and your 13k pals. Gear does matter. Sure, there are bad 17k players, but most of them know how to play and in the end a run with 5 17k players tends to be faster, then a run with a similar group at 12k. You want to have fun and spent your time doing what you like, same here.
The discussion began with the random queuing for normal level and mixing high and lows and the behavior of both groups. As far as people with low level toons, its not that they want others to clear the dungeon, its that if you are running ahead then clear as you go along. Leaving one here and there is not bad but not even touching the mobs as you run by and having them swarm a single low level toon trying to fight them on their own is BS. Heck, its counter productive in that if they are doing anything other than just running to the end, you are just waiting that much longer for them. If they are a OP or GF it is sometimes best to leave one or two around so they can leap toward them now and then to speed themselves (its what I do).
I just want to let you guys know one thing. Xbox has had 12b one day, and we're already having the same problems.
I got a Cloak Tower yesterday. All three of us were 70s, and we probably broke a record in how quickly we blew through the dungeon. It would have been funny if it wasn't for the fact that it actually felt pretty awkward. A guild mate landed in a different leveling dungeon with a low level player that had no business at all being where they were, and to hear him tell it, it was pretty painful. Lots of dying.
I see the point behind the queues. I really do. However, this version of them is not enjoyable.
At the bottom of the queue screen it clearly states "estimated play time..." from 15 to 30 minutes, yet we have people complaining when a dungeon run takes longer than 5 minutes.
This seems to reaffirm my supposition that the problem seems to be less with the dungeon - or the players that might need or even want to take some time to explore and experience their enviromnent and more to do with the people who seem to think a 15 to 30 minute dungeon should be run in 5 minutes, give or take.
My suggestion would be to put a timer on the final gate at the end where it absolutely will not open, even if all party members are assembled, for "x" minutes (15 minute dungeon - 10 minutes, 30 minute dungeon - 20 minutes).
I can already imagine the negativity and complaints from some players who will claim to be inconvenienced and forced to wait a few extra minutes to collect their loot or that they wouldn't be able to run their multiple characters because of "real life responsibilities".
:-p
Of course the up side of that totally eliminates any excuse for anyone to try to run through a low dungeon in 5 minutes, unless they want to spend another 5 minutes or more, just standing around cooling their heels at end. They aren't going to get the reward any more quickly.
That said, it sounds like a quick/dirty solution to a lot of these problems would be to just remove the stopping points from Randoms altogether... whoever is still in the dungeon when the final boss dies gets the RAD, and whoever is not in the dungeon at that time ends up in PE
This would not help levelers that want to experience the dungeon, but there just is not a solution for those guys until the devs actually fix level scaling like they should have done before implementing RQs in the first place
The Xbox forums are a good bit slower than the PC forums. There aren't many of us who post, but if you go look you will see that it is a much, much shorter version of what has been said on this side of the message boards.
Regardless, I do agree with you that the whole issue is the RQ system as it is presently implemented.