Off topic: I want higher levels in lower level dungeons as trying to run levelling dungeons, even cloak tower, as a group of three sub-20 levels is a time consuming and frustrating experience.
As an example, I was pretty well geared and could kill stuff very quickly for a sub-20 level character (thanks to alts outrageous stats due to ring, artifact, enchantments, mount power, insignias, epic companion with companion equip, and decent weapon etc). Did cloak tower with two low levels who were totally useless and it took around nine minutes to get to the final boss and this was with me doing the vast majority of the damage. I dread to think how long it would take with three useless characters, perhaps twenty minutes.
This is simple math...I would much rather run for five minutes doing practically nothing than spend twenty boring minutes slowly killing my way through.
So, you experience no empathy at all with the other lower level players who might just be new to the game and not have hand me downs their character didn't earn? You see, if that were the case, and the game's designers are to be believed, by not helping them as an experienced player it's YOU who is totally useless. That, after all, is the stated expectation given by @asterdahl
I understand that for some people, putting other people's experience even on a level with their own selfish interests is difficult, but by helping new players, (hell you don't even have to actually be nice... just not actively behave like a HAMSTER...) it makes new players experience of the game better. This leads to the game as a whole benefiting from a continued increase in happy players.
I know... "it's not my job to... be nice/not be a twat/do anything at all that doesn't specifically improve my game play" it's just good for the game... call it "enlightened self interest"
You could start by not thinking of all new players as "useless", and maybe try really hard to push a positive thought into your head like, "potential guild member"... and treat them accordingly?
You seem to have zero tolerance for new players and that is just sad. I can understand one being frustrated by people trolling the game, as you said about "in and out" playing with the timer. From what I read above you are a person without any patients. Also truly new players cannot even chat in the dungeons or express they need to stop a minute. This really needs to change, I see nothing wrong with allowing chat within a dungeon or party. Bots and other trouble makers are easier to detect, if we are able to talk to each other. I suggest even a multiple choice scripted response would be much better than no response at all.
The other issue with new and old players alike is a language barrier. There are more and more players from outside the US and Canada playing. I have friends who speak German, Russian, and Italian. It takes more than 30 seconds to copy and paste your text to the translator and then write up a response in English. I have noticed some players and guilds are tagging themselves with FR for French, PO for Polish, etc. however I don't expect you to learn another language. All I am saying, is people like yourself needs to learn some tolerance for those who are not as epic as you.
This is a social game, from what I understand you would be happier to play this game all by yourself.
Kicked three people from cloak tower in the last two days.
First had decided to go for some sort of break at the last campfire. Gave them thirty seconds then kicked them. Of course they were slow to even get to the last campfire. Got a message from them saying they had to go answer the door and we should have waited as they were only away for a few minutes, pointed out that they could have walked one second more into the end boss circle and got the payout.
The second decided to jump into and out of the end boss circle. The timer would count down to two or one then they would jump out. On the third time of doing this they got kicked. Again, last to get to end boss circle.
Third decided to start moving after a couple of minutes. We were at the end boss circle waiting but instead of moving to us the slow starter decided to go for both the chests near the end. Other guy in the dungeon got irritated before me and started the vote, I will always vote yes to kick slow players so he got booted.
I am starting to like cloak tower as it seems the kick timer is actually working here and you can kick after five minutes.
I also joined a caverns where three players had already dropped. I realised it was due to a 65th level character with all white items who was trying to fight through everything. I dropped too. I think he would have been kicked if it was possible but it was easier for me to drop just like the other three players already had.
So you kicked someone after 30 seconds for stopping at a campfire eh...
Did you bother to ask, or try to find out why they stopped?
I also ran the Cloak Tower a few times in the last couple of days and also had various party members stopping at campfires...
But as it turned even though we couldn't speak to all of them in chat I determined some of them had injuries from traps and probably had no injury kits and very few (only what they were able to pick up in the dungeon) healing potions so I gave a couple of them 5 gold and popped my merchant for them to use, no more stopping at campfires although I did have feel it necessary to explain where I got the merchant so they could get one too- what a pain - (*sarcasm).
I don't know about the person you say was hopping around, character level, experience or anything else... Did they even know they were supposed to remain in the circle? As I recall the healing campfire is right next to the final boss' gate circle, were they healing? Trying to recover from an injury?
Did you ask, or bother to tell them that to open the gate they had to remain in the circle before confronting the boss? Did you try to find out what was going on?
Even if a player cannot chat, I think they can still see other (higher level) character's chat in Say, Party or Zone - but that's just a guess.
And I too have had "slow starters", but as I realize not everyone's computer/internet connections allow everyone to connect at the same speed, I usually don't worry about it too much and even frequently wait at the assembly point till everyone arrives before I go running off ahead of the rest of the party... not everyone does I under stand, but you kicked them (guessing it was a low level player or newbie) out of the dungeon because they opened some chests... maybe to get better gear for themselves, potions, adventuring kits, refinement points or even just out of curiosity?
That's what low level dungeons like the Cloak Tower are for isn't it, to give new and low level players experience, the opportunity to pick up better gear or other useful items they can use or sell?
I'm glad you seem to appreciate the "kick" option in the level "12+" Cloak Tower so much - (* again sarcasm alert)
No one wants to run with new players and no one really wants to run cloak tower with them. The "new player" message is becoming a "drop now" message because when you see it you check other players item levels and if they are bad it makes you want to drop. If both other players have low item levels then I do drop now, I dont leave party but just drop and this means they are a player down for a few minutes.
You can endure a new player in cloak tower and maybe even cragmire but runs of caverns and spell plague with new players, especially if they are badly geared, are just torture.
I dont think there is anything bad about people wanting their first dungeon experience to be special or wanting to explore but I just dont want to be forced to be there when they are doing this. The poor mechanics of random queues are well known and it is no players fault that people with different goals are forced together.
Aside from your first statement being a little judgmental, it is also false... despite your appearing to think so, you don't speak for everyone.
No one wants to run with new players and no one really wants to run cloak tower with them.
How did you get your experience when you ran a dungeon for the first time?
When you were a newbie, how many times were you kicked out from content that was level appropriate to your character and if you were, how did you feel about it at the time?
Do you even remember or bother to consider those things?
Even with one of my level 70 characters I don't mind running with new players, especially in low level dungeons, at most it just takes a little longer to get to the final boss battle, but other than that everything's the same - same boss at the end, same payout, same experience - but I also have the opportunity to allow new players to run and actually enjoy their experience in a new dungeon, along with possibly even being able to give new players a pointer or two (like jumping over the leaning book case in the Cloak Tower library instead of following the glitter path) which tends to make everyone's experience a little better when they run that content the next time.
Not too long ago I was even in a party with another higher level player that showed a newbie where to pick up gems and items to place on the alters in the Cloak Tower for the reward, things like that is what I figure higher level players should do for new and lower level players, particularly in low level dungeons.
For some higher level players that "wealth" tends to be exclusively the chest reward after the final boss battle, the same kinds of stuff they can get questing in the Well of Dragons, the Underdark, Icewind Dale, Sharandar, the Dread Ring, Chult or other areas - albeit necessitating more effort on their part...
I understand that for some people, putting other people's experience even on a level with their own selfish interests is difficult, but by helping new players, (hell you don't even have to actually be nice... just not actively behave like a HAMSTER...) it makes new players experience of the game better. This leads to the game as a whole benefiting from a continued increase in happy players.
Not too long ago I was even in a party with another higher level player that showed a newbie where to pick up gems and items to place on the alters in the Cloak Tower for the reward, things like that is what I figure higher level players should do for new and lower level players, particularly in low level dungeons.
The chest in cloak tower and other lower tier content grants an item, non-protector seals, and some random things, a number of higher level players don't even open the chest at the end of that content, the RAD from simply completing the content is what they are seeking for the most part.
Just to shine light on something that hasn't seemingly been addressed, there are a number of lower level players that WANT to glide through that content, yeah, crazy right? All lower level players or arguably even the majority of them in lower level content aren't experience seekers, they too want the RAD and as much of it as they can get as well...
The thing about lower level characters is who is who, are they an actual newer player trying to advance, are they an experienced player just piddling on a lower level character, an account that would soon be spamming PE with AD for "x" dollars, a player that will soon see the amount of effort required to advance in this game and will soon quit, something else? Not all lower level players are "new" players, some are end result seekers masquerading as inexperienced players. You can't expect all or even the majority of higher level players to cater to each lower level players especially without some form of enlightenment/assurance on their position/attitude towards the game. An actual new player to the game is one thing, a player on a lower level character seeking to be carried is another.
Personally have assisted over 120 players. Most knew English, some didn't and their main/native language was pounded into Google translate repeatedly, all of this assistance lasted for over 6 months and included sets of equipment slotted with r7 Azure enchantments, campaign daily quests being ran daily with them, help with nearly every aspect of the game appropriate to their level, etc., etc. and less than 5% of them still play the game... Yes some players dislike lower level characters for whatever reason(s) though there are some that actually spent/spend considerable amounts of time trying to help them...
It's the same situations over and over with each expecting the other to fall in line instead of going in with like minded players. It takes "moments" to pre-form a group or at least try. A tutorial type situation for each quest line (especially for players that have yet to unlock chat), and or some kind of bonus for completing quests tasks/completing quests while in a group would work wonders for informing players how they can form groups without chat.
For the most part: - Forcing high and lower level players together doesn't work. - Suggesting higher level players be locked out of lower level content won't work. - " " " assist lower level characters regardless of those player's (lower level) intentions doesn't work. - Increasing rewards/incentives won't work.
^ Those type of things will exacerbate the problem. ^
Indefinitely forcing segregation with code will compound the situation as well. Player attitude towards others who are not like minded is increasingly being shown as the issue as well as those that intentionally under-perform in content.
Block/remove the bots/leechers and the "new" players who are actually trying will be left for the most part. Pretty sure a number of higher level players would be inclined to be more assisting of lower level players if they weren't repeatedly bombarded with lower level players that don't care and or simply want to be carried (some also have higher level characters).
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I can't figure out how "forcing", to use your term, high level players to quest with lower level players "won't work" especially since you even said that there are some lower level players in those dungeons for the same reason the higher level players are there for the AD payout at the end.
We've already established that not all high level players object to questing with or helping out new or lower level characters. Seems to me if higher level players actually seriously objected to questing with new or lower level players, they simply would not do it... no one "forces" anyone to push the random queue button and as I already mentioned, players - particularly higher level players - have alternative methods of making copious amounts of astral diamonds, even if it might require a little actual effort on their part to do so.
Most lower level players do not have those same or as many opportunities.
I also can't figure out how "suggesting" higher level players, being put in dungeons appropriate to their character level, instead of allowing them to quest in low level dungeons like the Cloak Tower, "won't work".
Players were earning astral diamonds long before the random queue implementation but suddenly you try to tell us it "won't work" for higher level characters to quest in dungeons more appropriate to their levels instead of allowing higher level players, particularly those who complain about having to quest with lower level players, quest in dungeons that are way below the appropriate level for them.
I do however agree that attempting to increase incentives don't appear to be a solution because we already have in place incentives for a bonus if a player new to the content completes the dungeon, but it seems those new to the content players are still being kicked out if they don't perform to the satisfaction of upper level players.
And as to higher level players being more inclined to help out new and lower level players if they aren't "repeatedly bombarded" with lower level players, it seems to me my suggestion for tiered dungeons where lower level players can't access level 2 dungeons, and higher level players aren't able to access level 1 dungeons, where there are a greater number of lower level players, would be the optimal working solution but you say it "won't work" - no explanation as to why you think it won't work, just a claim that it "won't work".
For all the dancing around and circular double talk, it seems we always return to the same thing...
Some higher level players - and yes, some lower level players - just want a quick and easy astral diamond reward at the end and a few of them resent any one or any thing that screws with that process... like new or lower level players in low level dungeons, opening chests, picking up drops, or not running fast enough to keep up or actually wanting to play the content of a lower level dungeon they are required to complete, instead of just running to the end to get the payout.
I dont think there is anything bad about people wanting their first dungeon experience to be special or wanting to explore but I just dont want to be forced to be there when they are doing this. The poor mechanics of random queues are well known and it is no players fault that people with different goals are forced together.
I agree with this statement 100% and I really just do not understand how the Dev team didn't see this clearly before they added this silly RQ system to the game. I know of several folks who have left the game over this. And a few of those folks were people who spent money on the game.
As I see it, this issue is compounded by 2 parties. The developers for their lack of vision as to how simple this could be resolved. The players for their absence of empathy and desire for quick free rewards. As to the first part, resolving the issue, all dungeons should be open to any party size (as it was long ago) 1 to 5 players. Thus people like spunkmeier could solo the dungeon without issue. As I recall, prior to mod 6, it was an option to enter a dungeon with or without a party. If random dungeons remain, a simple toggle of "solo or party" could be added to the menu. There would be no wait in ques for solo players, they would only have to be certain they could beat the dungeon by themselves.
Alas there is no solution to enhance player's empathy for one another or the want and desire of free AD.
Level 70 are actually intruding those new/low level player content and yet u are bossing and giving them the hard time. Just because developer got it wrong, doesnt mean u have the right to be a jerk. If u guys cant be tolerance of new player, u guys should not even que for normal dungeon. Developer should just forfeit the daily AD reward for those people that start vote kick new player in normal dungeon. That would keep those people that dont want to babysit new player away.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,399Arc User
edited December 2017
RQ is just a totally failure. In all the "goals" for RQ, there is ONLY two goal that "may" (a big may) need to RQ to do so. The rest are just thrown in to sugarcoat the feature. I commented about that in the original thread. Let us revisit.
Goals of Random Queues Before I dive into some of the finer details some of you may be wondering about, I would first like to talk about why we are introducing random queues. Here are the goals we set out (not necessarily in order of importance):
1. Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity. 2. Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety. 3. Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals. 4. Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content. 5. Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times. 6. Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment.
Goal 1: RQ can help. Goal 2: it is player's choice. Player decide what they want to play. If they want to burn themselves out, let them. RQ does not change that anyway. It just burn them out another way. Goal 3: It has nothing to do with RQ. It can just be a simple enhancement to what the queue used to be. Goal 4: Same as goal 3. Goal 5: What are the roles that are underplayed? DC and tanks? They are not underplayed. They are wanted everywhere. In addition, you don't need RQ to make that happens. Goal 6: That is the goal dev thought RQ can help new players. #1 and this are the only valid goals. However, this failed badly and did the opposite.
As far as I can see, there are only 2 real goals in the list (#1 and #6). Only 1 goal (#1) is achieved by RQ.
However, if there are other unwritten hidden goals, only dev knows if those goals are achieved.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
RQ is just a totally failure. In all the "goals" for RQ, there is ONLY two goal that "may" (a big may) need to RQ to do so. The rest are just thrown in to sugarcoat the feature. I commented about that in the original thread. Let us revisit.
Goals of Random Queues Before I dive into some of the finer details some of you may be wondering about, I would first like to talk about why we are introducing random queues. Here are the goals we set out (not necessarily in order of importance):
1. Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity. 2. Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety. 3. Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals. 4. Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content. 5. Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times. 6. Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment.
Goal 1: RQ can help. Goal 2: it is player's choice. Player decide what they want to play. If they want to burn themselves out, let them. RQ does not change that anyway. It just burn them out another way. Goal 3: It has nothing to do with RQ. It can just be a simple enhancement to what the queue used to be. Goal 4: Same as goal 3. Goal 5: What are the roles that are underplayed? DC and tanks? They are not underplayed. They are wanted everywhere. In addition, you don't need RQ to make that happens. Goal 6: That is the goal dev thought RQ can help new players. #1 and this are the only valid goals. However, this failed badly and did the opposite.
As far as I can see, there are only 2 real goals in the list (#1 and #6). Only 1 goal (#1) is achieved by RQ.
However, if there are other unwritten hidden goals, only dev knows if those goals are achieved.
Goal number 7: Stop players from running dungeons solo or duo for RAD via private que, forcing them to run with other players and increasing the % of successful PuG runs.
While I am personally an inveterate care-bear, as are many of you, I realize that most players in any game just are not, especially when it comes to people they have never met before and likely will never see again
"Tolerance" doesn't just mean people understanding what you want... You all have to realize that if you expect others to be tolerant of you, YOU have to be tolerant of THEM, which in this case means you need to understand and accept that many if not most players are not running random leveling dungeons hoping to find some noob to help
Again, if I were participating in random leveling dungeons, which I am not, I would personally (probably) try to be kind and understanding, but that does not give me or anyone else the right to say other people are wrong for not doing so
Furthermore, lambasting those that do not see things the way you do or behave as you want them to (as long as they are not breaking rules or hurting people) IS the morally incorrect thing to do, generally speaking
As we discuss exactly why Random Ques implementation is such a failure, it is VERY important to let everyone speak their minds so if someone from Cryptic actually reads through any of this they get an accurate picture of what is going on in the game
If one or two people comment honestly on how they are treating (and being treated by) the situation only to be attacked my five care-bears judging them harshly for behavior that is generally how the vast majority of players are dealing with this situation, a developer might mistakenly get the impression that the community at large is learning to deal with the problems given to us by RQs, which is not the case at all
I can't figure out how "forcing", to use your term, high level players to quest with lower level players "won't work"
Forcing lower and higher level players together in RQ's doesn't work because it mixes together:
- Speedrunners who dash ahead. - LLP's (lower level players) that want to speed run but can't though still attempt to keep up. - Explorer's that explore. - Leechers/AFK farmers that wait around until the end. - HLP's (higher level players) that would actually want to assist.
The mix of the above doesn't always match the higher level players that would be willing to help with the explorer's and LLP's that want the end reward(s), they sometimes get leechers, so forth and so on. Often enough the opposing wills get grouped together and the dissonance becomes reality. Currently there is no way to group like minded players together unless they do so prior to queuing and since most players would rather not group prior, the resulting group isn't always cohesive and then the complaints pour in... that's why it was stated that it won't work. When there are seemingly more negative interactions than positive ones a reasonable conclusion is that the current system doesn't work.
I also can't figure out how "suggesting" higher level players, being put in dungeons appropriate to their character level, instead of allowing them to quest in low level dungeons like the Cloak Tower, "won't work".
Players were earning astral diamonds long before the random queue implementation but suddenly you try to tell us it "won't work"
There is only so much bonus RAD that can be accumulated from each RQ type and to maximize that amount some players run each though there are some that simply run the normal dungeons. Locking HLP's out of the lower tier RQ's will cut a number of player's RQ RAD, some altogether since they solely choose the lower tier RQ's. Most players have lives outside of this game therefore a number of them want to get as much as they can in as little time and they have a right to try and do so.
RQ's are already a mess for a number of HLP's since when RQ'ing higher tiered content players are randomly matched with others and the difficulty of the content depends on the group formed by the system. Try running FBI with an a minimum ilvl group, it's fairly difficult for 14k+ groups... The higher ilvl requiring content is just as if not worse. Even EToS is quite difficult for a minimum ilvl group, 14k+ players can and still do get one shot there...
Private queues no longer grant bonus RAD...
Before when HLP's could solo queue content they didn't have to be concerned about being grouped with others that may possibly slow their progress down if speed running was their goal because it was just them in the queue alone, they could go as fast as they could AND get bonus RAD upon completion. Now with RQ's to try for the same reward if they don't pre-group they are grouped with 2 random others (tier 1 content) and chances are those two others are LLP's who may or may not be explorer's or leechers, if they are either or both then that will add time to completion where it wouldn't have before.
We've already established that not all high level players object to questing with or helping out new or lower level characters. Seems to me if higher level players actually seriously objected to questing with new or lower level players, they simply would not do it...
The objection to playing with LLP's is not an attitude shared amongst all or arguably the majority of HLP's (compared to the total posters here only a few have stated that they object). Arguably for the most part as long as the LLP's try to keep up a number of HLP's don't mind a few extra moments.
And as to higher level players being more inclined to help out new and lower level players if they aren't "repeatedly bombarded" with lower level players
that don't care and or simply want to be carried (some also have higher level characters).
Leaving out the end changes the context of the statement. LLP's aren't the problem, LLpPs that leech and or are AFK farmers are though, as previously mentioned, get rid of those negative players (and or implement a way for them to be grouped with each other instead of the positive players) and arguably more and more HLP's will have a better attitude towards LLP's. When for the most part when RQ'ing you see it is LLP's that stand around at the campfire or i8ntentionally hang back if a negative attitude comes about as a result towards LLP's it is not without rationality (not stated it is fair).
I can only hope that there is at least one Random Leveling Dungeon that for several weeks now has had three AFK Campfire Sitters logging back in every once and a while hoping that someone would have finished it
The solution does not seem to difficult maybe someone else proposed it I've not read every page of this thread, here's a few options.
Option 1) Group toons in leveling dungeons by level, 10 - 30, 30 - 60, 61 - 70 (just an example).
Option 2) If you get to far ahead of your party (system tracks distance) you lose AD for every 5 seconds you are X distance away.
Option 3) Probably not practical but have a GM occasionally run as a new player if they get helped he can reward them (no Batiri's as rewards), if he gets zerged they get a penalty.
My biggest frustration is when you enter a dungeon or a skirm and a player disconnects then reconnects 7 minutes later when your at the end. We should be able to boot disconnected players within a few minutes to make room for someone else to join.
Maybe the devs should create new toons and try to experience this first hand.
On a good note I have seen that if I stop and go back for the lower player that often times the other "runner" (my name for those that blast thru) will at times hold back and wait. Blasting through for a first timer is about as much fun as pulling out a nose hair, I had friends quit before the RQ's went in to effect because some level 70 went in killed everything and waited at the gate saying hurry up.
Forcing lower and higher level players together in RQ's doesn't work because it mixes together:
- Speedrunners who dash ahead. - LLP's (lower level players) that want to speed run but can't though still attempt to keep up. - Explorer's that explore. - Leechers/AFK farmers that wait around until the end. - HLP's (higher level players) that would actually want to assist.
The mix of the above doesn't always match the higher level players that would be willing to help with the explorer's and LLP's that want the end reward(s), they sometimes get leechers, so forth and so on. Often enough the opposing wills get grouped together and the dissonance becomes reality. Currently there is no way to group like minded players together unless they do so prior to queuing and since most players would rather not group prior, the resulting group isn't always cohesive and then the complaints pour in... that's why it was stated that it won't work. When there are seemingly more negative interactions than positive ones a reasonable conclusion is that the current system doesn't work. - snip-
no one "forces" anyone to push the random queue button
Everyone who queues for random dungeons do so because they want to, knowing full well that they may be placed in a party of other players who may not accommodate their personal sense of 'the way things should be'.
Personally I'm delighted when I queue in with one of my higher level players and have the opportunity to run something like the Cloak Tower, even if I get partied with low level players... It's a milk run and not only do I have no complaints about being partied with lower level players, I look at it as an opportunity to help out other players who may need it. My thoughts are quit complaining and stop looking a gift horse in the mouth or it just might go away.
The claim that some people have "real lives" (everyone has "real life" responsibilities) and complaining about anything that inconveniences them from quickly and easily running all of their game characters through a game dungeon for game wealth, personally just makes me question some people's "real life" priorities to begin with.
What happens if lower level players don't complete lower level dungeons?
I would think that answer would be fairly obvious to anyone who actually plays the game...
Every new and under 70 level player and even those at level 70 who actually play game content, (I think it a shame they stopped it at 70 instead of making some areas unobtainable until required quests are completed) has a list of quests in the quest log under the Sword Coast Chronicles they have to complete to get items, boons, etc. These are the players who are usually interested in working/playing for their gear and items instead of simply purchasing them on the Auction House in my opinion..
As I keep saying, for some players it isn't just personal profit and the AD's, it's about actually playing and enjoying the content of the game.
I had friends quit before the RQ's went in to effect because some level 70 went in killed everything and waited at the gate saying hurry up.
How many friends was that? At least 3 right? If so that's enough to group and queue for regular dungeons with your friends. The more friends you have the more opportunities you have to RQ without random outside influence.
Everyone who queues for random dungeons do so because they want to, knowing full well that they may be placed in a party of other players who may not accommodate their personal sense of 'the way things should be'.
Personally I'm delighted when I queue in with one of my higher level players and have the opportunity to run something like the Cloak Tower, even if I get partied with low level players...
That is an opinion/attitude not shared by everyone or even the majority (not that the majority necessarily matters in this regard). Apparently you have not encountered enough/consistent situations where you cannot complete the queue or it takes even longer because a player(s) are sitting at the beginning campfire AFK or players that don't move until the end of the queue, or maybe you have and choose to stick with the same attitude although in a way that is commendable there are a number of players who have ran into leechers/AFK farmers enough to know that they don't like it and wish something could be done about it. Those type of players plague lower level content and can significantly increase the amount of time to complete a queue even more so than a player(s) that explore every nook and cranny, at least those players move around and make progress towards the end even if HLP's run ahead, the others don't move at all or move right at/near the end.
Ask the players that don't like running with LLP's if they would rather run with a leech/ AFK farmer or a players that is actually trying to keep up/making consistent progress to the end...
As I keep saying, for some players it isn't just personal profit and the AD's, it's about actually playing and enjoying the content of the game.
Right, though what some seek does not trump what others seek and currently the RQ system forces opposing goals into the same group which is causing issues such as who does and does not have the right to be in content.
As far as Sword Coast Chronicles, completing the "deeds" isn't required at all nor for boons, they are simply optional tasks that grant items (most of which are fairly common). After the first time around the retraining token would seem to be the repeat item sought.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ask the players that don't like running with LLP's is they would rather run with a leech/ AFK farmer or a players that is actually trying to keep up/making consistent progress to the end...
I can't speak for other folks, but in the last few months I have been playing I have noticed, for the most part, the 70+ Speed Runners realize I am trying to keep up and the comments have stopped. To your point I think they have realized the worse problem are the AFKers. In fact I have noticed some even try to help me along such as a GF ho kept hitting me with his speed bump so I could run faster.
That is an opinion/attitude not shared by everyone or even the majority (not that the majority necessarily matters in this regard). Apparently you have not encountered enough/consistent situations where you cannot complete the queue or it takes even longer because a player(s) are sitting at the beginning campfire AFK or players that don't move until the end of the queue, or maybe you have and choose to stick with the same attitude although in a way that is commendable there are a number of players who have ran into leechers/AFK farmers enough to know that they don't like it and wish something could be done about it. Those type of players plague lower level content and can significantly increase the amount of time to complete a queue even more so than a player(s) that explore every nook and cranny, at least those players move around and make progress towards the end even if HLP's run ahead, the others don't move at all or move right at/near the end.
Ask the players that don't like running with LLP's if they would rather run with a leech/ AFK farmer or a players that is actually trying to keep up/making consistent progress to the end...
I can't with any honesty speak for the "majority" only myself and what appears to be the concensus of the individual posters here in this topic (discarding repeated posts by the same individuals)... which does not appear to hold a majority opinion that low level players are the problem.
Just about every queue I've logged into with LLP's "takes longer" and particularly in low level dungeons that's about 50% of the time, which personally, I don't cosider to be a problem or inconveience - I was a lower level player myself once and remember what it was like.
Not wanting to belabor the point yet being apologetically repetitive... The way I see it is low level dungeons were designed and intended specifically for new and lower level players, whenever a higher level player finds themselves in a low level dungeon they are essentially the guests of lower level players for whom that content was created and they should start acting like appreciative guests instead of complaining about the people who have every right to be there.
Most LLP's don't take longer because they are trying to inconvenience the rest of the party, they move slower because moving faster is beyond their ability. They explore, to open chests and they pick up drops because that is what they are supposed to do - what they have to do to get coins, refinement gems, better gear and supplies in those lower level dungeons - in addition to wanting to get some AD's at the end, low level dungeons, being run by low level players they way they are supposed to be run - something a few HLP's seem to have forgotten from when they were also LLP's.
Right, though what some seek does not trump what others seek
Which just goes to support my premise that regardless of some apparently believing since they are higher level, more experienced players and they don't like running dungons with lower level or new players, their opinion carries no more weight than new, lower level or less experienced players when it comes to how things should be done ... thanks for lending your support to my premise.
As far as Sword Coast Chronicles, completing the "deeds" isn't required at all nor for boons, they are simply optional tasks that grant items (most of which are fairly common). After the first time around the retraining token would seem to be the repeat item sought.
Those tasks are not so "optional" if any player wants or needs the items, gear or boons afforded to them by completing those tasks...
When you get right down to it just about all of Neverwinter content is "optional" depending on an individual's perspective - including random dungeons... but as you, yourself already said:
Just because you might believe content like the Sword Coast Chronicles "isn't required" or is "optional" - or some players might not like playing with higher or lower level players, that doesn't mean everyone else has to have the same opinion or should act accordingly.
As usual I figure some players consider tasks like the Sword Coast Chronicles to be unimportant because they likely already have better gear and boons than are afforded by that content, or some claim playing with new or low level players is an inconvience, but it seems to me those people are just looking at the issue from their own perspective and completely failing to consider the issue from any perspective other than their own... I believe there's a discriptive adjective for that.
I can't with any honesty speak for the "majority" only myself and what appears to be the concensus of the individual posters here in this topic (discarding repeated posts by the same individuals)... which does not appear to hold a majority opinion that low level players are the problem.
The way I see it is low level dungeons were designed and intended specifically for new and lower level players, whenever a higher level player finds themselves in a low level dungeon they are essentially the guests of lower level players for whom that content was created and they should start acting like appreciative guests instead of complaining about the people who have every right to be there.
Forum posts do not accurately portray the majority of anything outside of the thread, arguably not even a quarter of the player base utilizes the forums...
LLP's that leech and or AFK farm are a problem/inconvenience.
Taking a bit longer for a player putting in effort cannot accurately be compared to "players" that intentionally disrupt/halt queue progress, those negative LLP's are being addressed in these posts, the ones that are not intentionally hindering are good to go, no issue with them.
Again, if there were no leeching/AFK farming LLP's then things would be different though that is not the case. Wanting HLP's to be "appreciative" of and treat all LLP's kindly is quite silly, especially being that a number of them openly leech/AFK farm (do they all, no). Some HLP's treat all/most LLP's the same, some treat them accordingly (if they are putting in effort, good, if they are not then...).
All players that can queue have the right to be there and none have anymore right to be there than the others since there is a reward (RAD) that ALL can use. What's preventing cohesion is player attitude and leechers/AFK farmers.
Which just goes to support my premise that regardless of some apparently believing since they are higher level, more experienced players and they don't like running dungons with lower level or new players, their opinion carries no more weight than new, lower level or less experienced players when it comes to how things should be done
Not really. If you disagree with those statements then address those that made them, those type of statements were not made from this end nor agreed with. It was stated in so many words if players can't play nice with each other that they should group up before queuing.
Going along with how you term and form things, there are FAR more HLP's than LLP's (actually players, not referring to leechers/AFK farmers) wouldn't it be simpler if the smaller of the two grouped up for LTC and or if there was a quest/tutorial system that "thoroughly" introduced them to group play instead of barring HLP's from LTC?
Those tasks are not so "optional" if any player wants or needs the items, gear or boons afforded to them by completing those tasks...
What boons are associated with Sword Coast Chronicles deeds? None...
Bring forth a player that has completed all the deeds on more than 2 characters...
The value of the various rewards was brought up because once the tasks are completed on one character it is quite hard to relive the "magic" and being that most of the rewards can/will be obtained along the way to level 70 (and after) if not in greater quantity, rarity and value even if the deeds were skipped. That in no way means players have to skip them, players can complete all on every character if they choose though not many would once the "thrill" is gone
Insignias are common drops from queues. Marks and stones are common drops from Dread Ring, particular enchantments and a particular insignia bonus.
it seems to me those people are just looking at the issue from their own perspective and completely failing to consider the issue from any other perspective other than their own...
Yet that is pretty much exactly what you are doing...
Point taken, unfortunately as you say there are some people who queue for an event and just walk away and let the other party members do the work while they wait to get the reward...
I will concede there could be a change considered for higher level, better equipped and more experienced players to run higher level, more challenging dungeons and the lower "leveling" dungeons for players without the high level gear and experience - but then I think there should be some kind of lockout where low level players can't run the higher level dungeons (people speed leveling without playing any of the game content comes to mind) and the higher level players can't run the lower level dungeons (all the high gear level 70's running Cloak Tower comes to mind) - but there isn't. There may be later, but there isn't anything like that presently.
But what I do objectionable is some players trying to claim lower level and less experienced players are HAMSTER up their dungeon run experienced because they have to "carry" or wait for lower level players.
If a player is under a certain character/gear-item level, they could only participate in tier 1 random dungeons and likewise if a player is over a certain character/gear-item level they can only participate in tier 2 random dungeons
Pretty much the sentiment of your posts here are in regard to HLP's either being barred from LTC (lower tier content) or not queuing for LTC unless they are open to "cater" to LLP's regardless of whether they are actually trying/willing to put forth effort (leechers/AFK farmers). You seem to be concerned very little if at all about the HLP's that continually get grouped with leechers/AFK farmers and either can't complete the queue or the time to complete has been increased simply due the ill intentions of another "player"(s). It was a fairly common situation before RQ's and even more common now being that private queues no longer grant bonus RAD and the player base is all piled together via the RQ system (private queues used to help players from being grouped with negative/not like minded players).
Even if you stray away from your sentiment a little bit you quickly return to it and continue to advocate for pushing HLP's out of/away from LTC. That surely and clearly is:
failing to consider the issue from any perspective other than their own..
For the most part your statements don't offer a resolution that aids both LLP's and HLP's, they simply aid LLP's. How is that even remotely fair, how does that promote cohesion within the player base?
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I'm not going to keep up a running debate with anyone, especially when so much of the information the tend to post seems to be inaccurate or unsupportable.
Forum posts may not represent the majority opinion of everyone playing Neverwinter on a given subject, but it is at least quantifiable, unlike someone claiming they are aware of the majority opinion - based on their own personal opinion or even the few people they know or have spoke with. Given the number of people who currently run random queues I figure you would have had to poll several thousand people to arrive at a "majority" consensus, and somehow I kind of doubt you've done that.
As I said the first time you questioned the Sword Coast Chronicles, there are awards and yes even boons available for players who complete those tasks...
No not all of the awards are "common drops" and some of them are even exclusive to the Sword Coast Chronicles content... for instance can you name any other content that drops the Symbols of Savaras?
Marks and stones may well be common drops in the Dread Ring, but as I stated previously you seem to be making statements from your perspective as a higher level character and either ignoring or refusing to consider anything from the perspective from any player who can't yet get to the Dread Ring, let alone successfully quest there, (the Dread Ring is level 70 content by the way) .
Players who do the Sword Coast Chronicles can collect higher level refining stones at level 18, after Black Dagger Ruins. Also as I stated there is gear and boons for individual players who follow the Sword Coast Chronicles, beginning I believe with level 60 - The Maze Engine and the Elemental campaigns, so your statements that there are no, "none" boons for players following the Sword Coast Chronicles content is contrary to actual and irrefutable fact.
I myself often play level 70 characters and I've stated I have nothing against higher level players paying lower level content, so long as they don't attempt to rag on lower level players for their behavior in content that is level appropriate to those players, and the only resaon I have suggested higher level players be barred from lower level content is because of higher level players complaining and booting lower level players from content approprate to lower leve players...
But I have begun to notice that while it still happens on occasion, there do appear to be fewer instances of that happening than there were several weeks ago.
So as a relatively higher level player myself, I can see and have advocated from the perspective of a higher level player and I have advocated from the perspective of a lower level player basically related to qualtifiable comments posted here, what I have personally witnessed and comments from some lower level players as well... where as you have only appeared to advocate and post from your own perspective, that of a higher level player, claiming you represent the "majority" opinion...
I had friends quit before the RQ's went in to effect because some level 70 went in killed everything and waited at the gate saying hurry up.
How many friends was that? At least 3 right? If so that's enough to group and queue for regular dungeons with your friends. The more friends you have the more opportunities you have to RQ without random outside influence.
Everyone who queues for random dungeons do so because they want to, knowing full well that they may be placed in a party of other players who may not accommodate their personal sense of 'the way things should be'.
Personally I'm delighted when I queue in with one of my higher level players and have the opportunity to run something like the Cloak Tower, even if I get partied with low level players...
That is an opinion/attitude not shared by everyone or even the majority (not that the majority necessarily matters in this regard). Apparently you have not encountered enough/consistent situations where you cannot complete the queue or it takes even longer because a player(s) are sitting at the beginning campfire AFK or players that don't move until the end of the queue, or maybe you have and choose to stick with the same attitude although in a way that is commendable there are a number of players who have ran into leechers/AFK farmers enough to know that they don't like it and wish something could be done about it. Those type of players plague lower level content and can significantly increase the amount of time to complete a queue even more so than a player(s) that explore every nook and cranny, at least those players move around and make progress towards the end even if HLP's run ahead, the others don't move at all or move right at/near the end.
Ask the players that don't like running with LLP's if they would rather run with a leech/ AFK farmer or a players that is actually trying to keep up/making consistent progress to the end...
As I keep saying, for some players it isn't just personal profit and the AD's, it's about actually playing and enjoying the content of the game.
Right, though what some seek does not trump what others seek and currently the RQ system forces opposing goals into the same group which is causing issues such as who does and does not have the right to be in content.
As far as Sword Coast Chronicles, completing the "deeds" isn't required at all nor for boons, they are simply optional tasks that grant items (most of which are fairly common). After the first time around the retraining token would seem to be the repeat item sought.
It was 2 people 1and they didn't know each other, why would a new level 12 player even expect a level 70 in a L12 dungeon (yeah I forgot to warn them). They wanted to go out and do things on their own to learn the game maybe meet others their level. You say they can group with friends you can say the same for a L70 established player they should know more in game people than a new player. New players get frustrated when they get zerged.
Lowbies running with highbies, don't stop to pick up every piece of HAMSTER on the floor, keep up. If you wanna explore, form a group and private q.
Highbies running with lowbies, just kill everything. Aggro everything, kill everything, seriously, it will literally take you a couple of seconds extra, and prevent "omg that HAMSTER died" syndrome while you're waiting in the circle for the last boss.
Highbies running with lowbies, just kill everything. Aggro everything, kill everything, seriously, it will literally take you a couple of seconds extra, and prevent "omg that HAMSTER died" syndrome while you're waiting in the circle for the last boss.
I would add that if you have the ability to help the low level character, do it. I had a high level GF who kept hitting me with his speed boost then run off to kill stuff. Every so often he would rehit me. Bottom line, I was able to keep up with the 70+ speed Runners and in the end we all arrived at the final gate about the same time. Yes it took him time to do it, but in the end I am sure it saved him time overall.
Lowbies running with highbies, don't stop to pick up every piece of HAMSTER on the floor, keep up. If you wanna explore, form a group and private q.
Highbies running with lowbies, just kill everything. Aggro everything, kill everything, seriously, it will literally take you a couple of seconds extra, and prevent "omg that HAMSTER died" syndrome while you're waiting in the circle for the last boss.
Yup. High level toon should clear the path for low level player. Its like an escort mission. The content is already easy for u but not for the low level. If u guys keep rushing to the boss without killing, the lowbie is gonna slow u down even more. If u are gonna kick him off because of that, just put urself in his shoes. A good example, yesterday as i observe, a lvl70 gwf rushes ahead leaving a lvl54 tr behind in carven of kurandax full of mob, the tr get dismount by the mob evey single time and need to fight them off but he is not strong to kill them fast enough. If i werent there to help him and give him some heals, he would have died and respawn back at the campfire. If u think by kicking will solve the problem, think again when another newbie join. Its just gonna repeat itself and u have to run back to get them. Not mentioning u have just been a jerk to the other person.
I mean guys the dungeon is already free for us, dont be lazy and put in more effort to make sure all party member made it to the end. Think of it as an escort mission not speed run. AD dont come free without an effort.
Lowbies running with highbies, don't stop to pick up every piece of HAMSTER on the floor, keep up. If you wanna explore, form a group and private q.
Highbies running with lowbies, just kill everything. Aggro everything, kill everything, seriously, it will literally take you a couple of seconds extra, and prevent "omg that HAMSTER died" syndrome while you're waiting in the circle for the last boss.
Yup. High level toon should clear the path for low level player. Its like an escort mission. The content is already easy for u but not for the low level. If u guys keep rushing to the boss without killing, the lowbie is gonna slow u down even more. If u are gonna kick him off because of that, just put urself in his shoes. A good example, yesterday as i observe, a lvl70 gwf rushes ahead leaving a lvl54 tr behind in carven of kurandax full of mob, the tr get dismount by the mob evey single time and need to fight them off but he is not strong to kill them fast enough. If i werent there to help him and give him some heals, he would have died and respawn back at the campfire. If u think by kicking will solve the problem, think again when another newbie join. Its just gonna repeat itself and u have to run back to get them. Not mentioning u have just been a jerk to the other person.
I mean guys the dungeon is already free for us, dont be lazy and put in more effort to make sure all party member made it to the end. Think of it as an escort mission not speed run. AD dont come free without an effort.
An "Escort Mission" is the way I see it and I always act accordingly. I kill everything and make sure any low level character can follow. But that doesn't solve all problems.
I've had a lowbie tell me that I was "impolite" because I didn't give him time to kill stuff on his own. The guy had been queuing for cragmire crypts, not random queue, trying to get a group of his level. I can understand the frustration but how "impolite" was he himself for telling me that I should stand back and watch him slowly kill stuff when my own expectation is to finish the dungeon ASAP for the daily RAD?
I had another one purposely make us all wait at the final boss' circle because "we had gone too fast" even though he hadn't said a word for the whole dungeon. I tried to kick that jerk but the timer prevented it.
Being a care-bear is cool but you have to keep in mind that low level players can be jerks just as much as high level ones.
Lowbies running with highbies, don't stop to pick up every piece of HAMSTER on the floor, keep up. If you wanna explore, form a group and private q.
Highbies running with lowbies, just kill everything. Aggro everything, kill everything, seriously, it will literally take you a couple of seconds extra, and prevent "omg that HAMSTER died" syndrome while you're waiting in the circle for the last boss.
Yup. High level toon should clear the path for low level player. Its like an escort mission. The content is already easy for u but not for the low level. If u guys keep rushing to the boss without killing, the lowbie is gonna slow u down even more. If u are gonna kick him off because of that, just put urself in his shoes. A good example, yesterday as i observe, a lvl70 gwf rushes ahead leaving a lvl54 tr behind in carven of kurandax full of mob, the tr get dismount by the mob evey single time and need to fight them off but he is not strong to kill them fast enough. If i werent there to help him and give him some heals, he would have died and respawn back at the campfire. If u think by kicking will solve the problem, think again when another newbie join. Its just gonna repeat itself and u have to run back to get them. Not mentioning u have just been a jerk to the other person.
I mean guys the dungeon is already free for us, dont be lazy and put in more effort to make sure all party member made it to the end. Think of it as an escort mission not speed run. AD dont come free without an effort.
An "Escort Mission" is the way I see it and I always act accordingly. I kill everything and make sure any low level character can follow. But that doesn't solve all problems.
I've had a lowbie tell me that I was "impolite" because I didn't give him time to kill stuff on his own. The guy had been queuing for cragmire crypts, not random queue, trying to get a group of his level. I can understand the frustration but how "impolite" was he himself for telling me that I should stand back and watch him slowly kill stuff when my own expectation is to finish the dungeon ASAP for the daily RAD?
I had another one purposely make us all wait at the final boss' circle because "we had gone too fast" even though he hadn't said a word for the whole dungeon. I tried to kick that jerk but the timer prevented it.
Being a care-bear is cool but you have to keep in mind that low level players can be jerks just as much as high level ones.
IF u think running with lowbie in random dungeon is going to be a problem, why not avoid it alltogether. We could just put up LFM in PE or guild chat for level 70 and que for it. That will prevent any bad experience from happening to both parties. We cant change the developer's view or other player behavior but we can change ours in a way so nobody is going to be jerk.
What can't be supported? Do point it out as well as where was the majority claimed to know/aware of so that any of it can be clarified.
Symbols of Savaras can be used to get x1 of about 5 items (about 2 of which can be gotten by other means, one has a rank 60 limit and 3 have alternatives that drop frequent enough from queues and or can be sold for others).
The Sword Coast chronicle DEEDS were brought up so as anyone that doesn't know and is reading through these posts will not think that they HAVE to complete deeds for a boon(s).
Wanderer's fortune commonly drops stones (a number of mounts that can grant the bonus can be bought from about a week or so of farming RAD). Invoking commonly grants uncommon and rare marks. Wanderer's fortune can be achieved long before lvl 70 (depending on the player) and invoking becomes available at lvl 11.
All HLP's don't "rag" on nor vote kick LLP's and arguably not even a large portion of them do so. Your suggestions about barring HLP's from LTC would punish a large portion of players that do neither (rag on/vote kick LLP's). You have taken this "isolated" incident and are treating it like it is a common situation for a large number of actual LLP's (not leechers/AFK Farmers).
Players that continually play don't remain a LLP forever and once a player achieves a lvl 70, for the most part even if they start another character chances are they aren't going to go through all of the things they did before. Not to mention the coveted "at level" experience that is claimed to be sought can be quite short lived at lowers levels, the biggest gap being between 19 (Cragmire Crypts) and 36 (Gray Wolf Den). Once a character has reached about 2 dungeons above their last they have essentially out leveled what is below and the XP from completions can make leveling a breeze, not to mention x2 XP events. Once a player reaches level 36 they can essentially one shot a lot in Cloak Tower, hell a player that becomes privy to bonding runestones and enchantments can do it sooner not to mention dark enchantments in utility slots will speed their movement up.
Leechers/AFK Farmers effect players of ALL level ranges, some here have even stated their encounters with them. LLP's are especially put at a disadvantage if one or more players don't participate due to the increased difficulty and or can't start/complete the content and HLP's are put at a disadvantage because they can't complete/start the content.
The prime suggestion for both groups is to pre-group, a plain and simple solution to a repeatedly self inflicted situation which doesn't require ousting players, coding, thoughts of how to implement, etc. though a number of posts here describe roundabout suggestions for such a situation.
Pre-group and the chances of getting others that are not like minded is drastically reduced. LLP's can't be kicked by HLP's if they are not there in the first place (and the group stays together). HLP's can't get stuck with lower level leechers/AFK Farmers if they aren't there in the first place (and the group stays together).
Don't give others in the party a reason to complain (can't really get around "spoiling the experience" for LLP's if you kill everything as a HLP though unfortunately there are arguably a lot more players that would rather speed through than wait for others to sight see). If players want to do something "against the grain", that's what private q's can be used for so that they can proceed without disrupting others.
(Wanting to explore) + (wanting to speed run) = Dissonance (Wanting to explore) + (Wanting to speed run + defeating all mobs) = Less Dissonance (Wanting to explore though trying to keep up) + (Wanting to speed run + defeating all mobs) = Less/no dissonance (Wanting to explore + pre-grouping with others that want to explore) + (group staying intact) = No dissonance (Wanting to speed run + pre-grouping with others that want to speed run) + (group staying intact) = No dissonance
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
IF u think running with lowbie in random dungeon is going to be a problem, why not avoid it alltogether. We could just put up LFM in PE or guild chat for level 70 and que for it. That will prevent any bad experience from happening to both parties. We cant change the developer's view or other player behavior but we can change ours in a way so nobody is going to be jerk.
I disagree. The past has proven that once the voice is loud enough, sometimes the developer's view can be changed. If we do not stop stating that the RQ system is a failure (related to what it was supposed to achieve, related to the Dev's goals) and if we can support these statements with facts and good arguments, the Dev's will eventually listen.
IF u think running with lowbie in random dungeon is going to be a problem, why not avoid it alltogether. We could just put up LFM in PE or guild chat for level 70 and que for it. That will prevent any bad experience from happening to both parties. We cant change the developer's view or other player behavior but we can change ours in a way so nobody is going to be jerk.
I disagree. The past has proven that once the voice is loud enough, sometimes the developer's view can be changed. If we do not stop stating that the RQ system is a failure (related to what it was supposed to achieve, related to the Dev's goals) and if we can support these statements with facts and good arguments, the Dev's will eventually listen.
So u want the developer to change the game just because u cant make ur own que? Its like, just because our mother gave us attention when we cry, doest mean that we have to cry everytime to get her attention. She got things to do too and we are going to grow up one way or another. I m sure there is a reason that the developer has not done something about it. I mean this problem already exist long before RQ system is introduced. Since like mod 7 or 8? And its not hard to make a 3 man level70 party to que for it. I dont see any reason to make it more complicated.
Comments
You see, if that were the case, and the game's designers are to be believed, by not helping them as an experienced player it's YOU who is totally useless. That, after all, is the stated expectation given by @asterdahl
I understand that for some people, putting other people's experience even on a level with their own selfish interests is difficult, but by helping new players, (hell you don't even have to actually be nice... just not actively behave like a HAMSTER...) it makes new players experience of the game better. This leads to the game as a whole benefiting from a continued increase in happy players.
I know... "it's not my job to... be nice/not be a twat/do anything at all that doesn't specifically improve my game play" it's just good for the game... call it "enlightened self interest"
You could start by not thinking of all new players as "useless", and maybe try really hard to push a positive thought into your head like, "potential guild member"... and treat them accordingly?
The other issue with new and old players alike is a language barrier. There are more and more players from outside the US and Canada playing. I have friends who speak German, Russian, and Italian. It takes more than 30 seconds to copy and paste your text to the translator and then write up a response in English. I have noticed some players and guilds are tagging themselves with FR for French, PO for Polish, etc. however I don't expect you to learn another language. All I am saying, is people like yourself needs to learn some tolerance for those who are not as epic as you.
This is a social game, from what I understand you would be happier to play this game all by yourself.
Did you bother to ask, or try to find out why they stopped?
I also ran the Cloak Tower a few times in the last couple of days and also had various party members stopping at campfires...
But as it turned even though we couldn't speak to all of them in chat I determined some of them had injuries from traps and probably had no injury kits and very few (only what they were able to pick up in the dungeon) healing potions so I gave a couple of them 5 gold and popped my merchant for them to use, no more stopping at campfires although I did have feel it necessary to explain where I got the merchant so they could get one too- what a pain - (*sarcasm).
I don't know about the person you say was hopping around, character level, experience or anything else... Did they even know they were supposed to remain in the circle? As I recall the healing campfire is right next to the final boss' gate circle, were they healing? Trying to recover from an injury?
Did you ask, or bother to tell them that to open the gate they had to remain in the circle before confronting the boss?
Did you try to find out what was going on?
Even if a player cannot chat, I think they can still see other (higher level) character's chat in Say, Party or Zone - but that's just a guess.
And I too have had "slow starters", but as I realize not everyone's computer/internet connections allow everyone to connect at the same speed, I usually don't worry about it too much and even frequently wait at the assembly point till everyone arrives before I go running off ahead of the rest of the party... not everyone does I under stand, but you kicked them (guessing it was a low level player or newbie) out of the dungeon because they opened some chests... maybe to get better gear for themselves, potions, adventuring kits, refinement points or even just out of curiosity?
That's what low level dungeons like the Cloak Tower are for isn't it, to give new and low level players experience, the opportunity to pick up better gear or other useful items they can use or sell?
I'm glad you seem to appreciate the "kick" option in the level "12+" Cloak Tower so much - (* again sarcasm alert) Aside from your first statement being a little judgmental, it is also false... despite your appearing to think so, you don't speak for everyone. How did you get your experience when you ran a dungeon for the first time?
When you were a newbie, how many times were you kicked out from content that was level appropriate to your character and if you were, how did you feel about it at the time?
Do you even remember or bother to consider those things?
Even with one of my level 70 characters I don't mind running with new players, especially in low level dungeons, at most it just takes a little longer to get to the final boss battle, but other than that everything's the same - same boss at the end, same payout, same experience - but I also have the opportunity to allow new players to run and actually enjoy their experience in a new dungeon, along with possibly even being able to give new players a pointer or two (like jumping over the leaning book case in the Cloak Tower library instead of following the glitter path) which tends to make everyone's experience a little better when they run that content the next time.
Not too long ago I was even in a party with another higher level player that showed a newbie where to pick up gems and items to place on the alters in the Cloak Tower for the reward, things like that is what I figure higher level players should do for new and lower level players, particularly in low level dungeons.
Just to shine light on something that hasn't seemingly been addressed, there are a number of lower level players that WANT to glide through that content, yeah, crazy right? All lower level players or arguably even the majority of them in lower level content aren't experience seekers, they too want the RAD and as much of it as they can get as well...
The thing about lower level characters is who is who, are they an actual newer player trying to advance, are they an experienced player just piddling on a lower level character, an account that would soon be spamming PE with AD for "x" dollars, a player that will soon see the amount of effort required to advance in this game and will soon quit, something else? Not all lower level players are "new" players, some are end result seekers masquerading as inexperienced players. You can't expect all or even the majority of higher level players to cater to each lower level players especially without some form of enlightenment/assurance on their position/attitude towards the game. An actual new player to the game is one thing, a player on a lower level character seeking to be carried is another.
Personally have assisted over 120 players. Most knew English, some didn't and their main/native language was pounded into Google translate repeatedly, all of this assistance lasted for over 6 months and included sets of equipment slotted with r7 Azure enchantments, campaign daily quests being ran daily with them, help with nearly every aspect of the game appropriate to their level, etc., etc. and less than 5% of them still play the game... Yes some players dislike lower level characters for whatever reason(s) though there are some that actually spent/spend considerable amounts of time trying to help them...
It's the same situations over and over with each expecting the other to fall in line instead of going in with like minded players. It takes "moments" to pre-form a group or at least try. A tutorial type situation for each quest line (especially for players that have yet to unlock chat), and or some kind of bonus for completing quests tasks/completing quests while in a group would work wonders for informing players how they can form groups without chat.
For the most part:
- Forcing high and lower level players together doesn't work.
- Suggesting higher level players be locked out of lower level content won't work.
- " " " assist lower level characters regardless of those player's (lower level) intentions doesn't work.
- Increasing rewards/incentives won't work.
^ Those type of things will exacerbate the problem. ^
Indefinitely forcing segregation with code will compound the situation as well. Player attitude towards others who are not like minded is increasingly being shown as the issue as well as those that intentionally under-perform in content.
Block/remove the bots/leechers and the "new" players who are actually trying will be left for the most part. Pretty sure a number of higher level players would be inclined to be more assisting of lower level players if they weren't repeatedly bombarded with lower level players that don't care and or simply want to be carried (some also have higher level characters).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
We've already established that not all high level players object to questing with or helping out new or lower level characters. Seems to me if higher level players actually seriously objected to questing with new or lower level players, they simply would not do it... no one "forces" anyone to push the random queue button and as I already mentioned, players - particularly higher level players - have alternative methods of making copious amounts of astral diamonds, even if it might require a little actual effort on their part to do so.
Most lower level players do not have those same or as many opportunities.
I also can't figure out how "suggesting" higher level players, being put in dungeons appropriate to their character level, instead of allowing them to quest in low level dungeons like the Cloak Tower, "won't work".
Players were earning astral diamonds long before the random queue implementation but suddenly you try to tell us it "won't work" for higher level characters to quest in dungeons more appropriate to their levels instead of allowing higher level players, particularly those who complain about having to quest with lower level players, quest in dungeons that are way below the appropriate level for them.
I do however agree that attempting to increase incentives don't appear to be a solution because we already have in place incentives for a bonus if a player new to the content completes the dungeon, but it seems those new to the content players are still being kicked out if they don't perform to the satisfaction of upper level players.
And as to higher level players being more inclined to help out new and lower level players if they aren't "repeatedly bombarded" with lower level players, it seems to me my suggestion for tiered dungeons where lower level players can't access level 2 dungeons, and higher level players aren't able to access level 1 dungeons, where there are a greater number of lower level players, would be the optimal working solution but you say it "won't work" - no explanation as to why you think it won't work, just a claim that it "won't work".
For all the dancing around and circular double talk, it seems we always return to the same thing...
Some higher level players - and yes, some lower level players - just want a quick and easy astral diamond reward at the end and a few of them resent any one or any thing that screws with that process... like new or lower level players in low level dungeons, opening chests, picking up drops, or not running fast enough to keep up or actually wanting to play the content of a lower level dungeon they are required to complete, instead of just running to the end to get the payout.
Alas there is no solution to enhance player's empathy for one another or the want and desire of free AD.
I commented about that in the original thread. Let us revisit.
Goals of Random Queues
Before I dive into some of the finer details some of you may be wondering about, I would first like to talk about why we are introducing random queues. Here are the goals we set out (not necessarily in order of importance):
1. Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity.
2. Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety.
3. Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals.
4. Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content.
5. Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times.
6. Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment.
Goal 1: RQ can help.
Goal 2: it is player's choice. Player decide what they want to play. If they want to burn themselves out, let them. RQ does not change that anyway. It just burn them out another way.
Goal 3: It has nothing to do with RQ. It can just be a simple enhancement to what the queue used to be.
Goal 4: Same as goal 3.
Goal 5: What are the roles that are underplayed? DC and tanks? They are not underplayed. They are wanted everywhere. In addition, you don't need RQ to make that happens.
Goal 6: That is the goal dev thought RQ can help new players. #1 and this are the only valid goals. However, this failed badly and did the opposite.
As far as I can see, there are only 2 real goals in the list (#1 and #6). Only 1 goal (#1) is achieved by RQ.
However, if there are other unwritten hidden goals, only dev knows if those goals are achieved.
"Tolerance" doesn't just mean people understanding what you want... You all have to realize that if you expect others to be tolerant of you, YOU have to be tolerant of THEM, which in this case means you need to understand and accept that many if not most players are not running random leveling dungeons hoping to find some noob to help
Again, if I were participating in random leveling dungeons, which I am not, I would personally (probably) try to be kind and understanding, but that does not give me or anyone else the right to say other people are wrong for not doing so
Furthermore, lambasting those that do not see things the way you do or behave as you want them to (as long as they are not breaking rules or hurting people) IS the morally incorrect thing to do, generally speaking
As we discuss exactly why Random Ques implementation is such a failure, it is VERY important to let everyone speak their minds so if someone from Cryptic actually reads through any of this they get an accurate picture of what is going on in the game
If one or two people comment honestly on how they are treating (and being treated by) the situation only to be attacked my five care-bears judging them harshly for behavior that is generally how the vast majority of players are dealing with this situation, a developer might mistakenly get the impression that the community at large is learning to deal with the problems given to us by RQs, which is not the case at all
- Speedrunners who dash ahead.
- LLP's (lower level players) that want to speed run but can't though still attempt to keep up.
- Explorer's that explore.
- Leechers/AFK farmers that wait around until the end.
- HLP's (higher level players) that would actually want to assist.
The mix of the above doesn't always match the higher level players that would be willing to help with the explorer's and LLP's that want the end reward(s), they sometimes get leechers, so forth and so on. Often enough the opposing wills get grouped together and the dissonance becomes reality. Currently there is no way to group like minded players together unless they do so prior to queuing and since most players would rather not group prior, the resulting group isn't always cohesive and then the complaints pour in... that's why it was stated that it won't work. When there are seemingly more negative interactions than positive ones a reasonable conclusion is that the current system doesn't work. There is only so much bonus RAD that can be accumulated from each RQ type and to maximize that amount some players run each though there are some that simply run the normal dungeons. Locking HLP's out of the lower tier RQ's will cut a number of player's RQ RAD, some altogether since they solely choose the lower tier RQ's. Most players have lives outside of this game therefore a number of them want to get as much as they can in as little time and they have a right to try and do so.
RQ's are already a mess for a number of HLP's since when RQ'ing higher tiered content players are randomly matched with others and the difficulty of the content depends on the group formed by the system. Try running FBI with an a minimum ilvl group, it's fairly difficult for 14k+ groups... The higher ilvl requiring content is just as if not worse. Even EToS is quite difficult for a minimum ilvl group, 14k+ players can and still do get one shot there...
Private queues no longer grant bonus RAD...
Before when HLP's could solo queue content they didn't have to be concerned about being grouped with others that may possibly slow their progress down if speed running was their goal because it was just them in the queue alone, they could go as fast as they could AND get bonus RAD upon completion. Now with RQ's to try for the same reward if they don't pre-group they are grouped with 2 random others (tier 1 content) and chances are those two others are LLP's who may or may not be explorer's or leechers, if they are either or both then that will add time to completion where it wouldn't have before. The objection to playing with LLP's is not an attitude shared amongst all or arguably the majority of HLP's (compared to the total posters here only a few have stated that they object). Arguably for the most part as long as the LLP's try to keep up a number of HLP's
don't mind a few extra moments. The rest of the statement is: Leaving out the end changes the context of the statement. LLP's aren't the problem, LLpPs that leech and or are AFK farmers are though, as previously mentioned, get rid of those negative players (and or implement a way for them to be grouped with each other instead of the positive players) and arguably more and more HLP's will have a better attitude towards LLP's. When for the most part when RQ'ing you see it is LLP's that stand around at the campfire or i8ntentionally hang back if a negative attitude comes about as a result towards LLP's it is not without rationality (not stated it is fair). What happens if lower level players don't complete lower level dungeons?
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Option 1) Group toons in leveling dungeons by level, 10 - 30, 30 - 60, 61 - 70 (just an example).
Option 2) If you get to far ahead of your party (system tracks distance) you lose AD for every 5 seconds you are X distance away.
Option 3) Probably not practical but have a GM occasionally run as a new player if they get helped he can reward them (no Batiri's as rewards), if he gets zerged they get a penalty.
My biggest frustration is when you enter a dungeon or a skirm and a player disconnects then reconnects 7 minutes later when your at the end. We should be able to boot disconnected players within a few minutes to make room for someone else to join.
Maybe the devs should create new toons and try to experience this first hand.
On a good note I have seen that if I stop and go back for the lower player that often times the other "runner" (my name for those that blast thru) will at times hold back and wait.
Blasting through for a first timer is about as much fun as pulling out a nose hair, I had friends quit before the RQ's went in to effect because some level 70 went in killed everything and waited at the gate saying hurry up.
Personally I'm delighted when I queue in with one of my higher level players and have the opportunity to run something like the Cloak Tower, even if I get partied with low level players... It's a milk run and not only do I have no complaints about being partied with lower level players, I look at it as an opportunity to help out other players who may need it. My thoughts are quit complaining and stop looking a gift horse in the mouth or it just might go away.
The claim that some people have "real lives" (everyone has "real life" responsibilities) and complaining about anything that inconveniences them from quickly and easily running all of their game characters through a game dungeon for game wealth, personally just makes me question some people's "real life" priorities to begin with. I would think that answer would be fairly obvious to anyone who actually plays the game...
Every new and under 70 level player and even those at level 70 who actually play game content, (I think it a shame they stopped it at 70 instead of making some areas unobtainable until required quests are completed) has a list of quests in the quest log under the Sword Coast Chronicles they have to complete to get items, boons, etc. These are the players who are usually interested in working/playing for their gear and items instead of simply purchasing them on the Auction House in my opinion..
As I keep saying, for some players it isn't just personal profit and the AD's, it's about actually playing and enjoying the content of the game.
Apparently you have not encountered enough/consistent situations where you cannot complete the queue or it takes even longer because a player(s) are sitting at the beginning campfire AFK or players that don't move until the end of the queue, or maybe you have and choose to stick with the same attitude although in a way that is commendable there are a number of players who have ran into leechers/AFK farmers enough to know that they don't like it and wish something could be done about it. Those type of players plague lower level content and can significantly increase the amount of time to complete a queue even more so than a player(s) that explore every nook and cranny, at least those players move around and make progress towards the end even if HLP's run ahead, the others don't move at all or move right at/near the end.
Ask the players that don't like running with LLP's if they would rather run with a leech/ AFK farmer or a players that is actually trying to keep up/making consistent progress to the end... Right, though what some seek does not trump what others seek and currently the RQ system forces opposing goals into the same group which is causing issues such as who does and does not have the right to be in content.
As far as Sword Coast Chronicles, completing the "deeds" isn't required at all nor for boons, they are simply optional tasks that grant items (most of which are fairly common). After the first time around the retraining token would seem to be the repeat item sought.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Just about every queue I've logged into with LLP's "takes longer" and particularly in low level dungeons that's about 50% of the time, which personally, I don't cosider to be a problem or inconveience - I was a lower level player myself once and remember what it was like.
Not wanting to belabor the point yet being apologetically repetitive... The way I see it is low level dungeons were designed and intended specifically for new and lower level players, whenever a higher level player finds themselves in a low level dungeon they are essentially the guests of lower level players for whom that content was created and they should start acting like appreciative guests instead of complaining about the people who have every right to be there.
Most LLP's don't take longer because they are trying to inconvenience the rest of the party, they move slower because moving faster is beyond their ability. They explore, to open chests and they pick up drops because that is what they are supposed to do - what they have to do to get coins, refinement gems, better gear and supplies in those lower level dungeons - in addition to wanting to get some AD's at the end, low level dungeons, being run by low level players they way they are supposed to be run - something a few HLP's seem to have forgotten from when they were also LLP's.
You correctly state: Which just goes to support my premise that regardless of some apparently believing since they are higher level, more experienced players and they don't like running dungons with lower level or new players, their opinion carries no more weight than new, lower level or less experienced players when it comes to how things should be done ... thanks for lending your support to my premise. Those tasks are not so "optional" if any player wants or needs the items, gear or boons afforded to them by completing those tasks...
When you get right down to it just about all of Neverwinter content is "optional" depending on an individual's perspective - including random dungeons... but as you, yourself already said: Just because you might believe content like the Sword Coast Chronicles "isn't required" or is "optional" - or some players might not like playing with higher or lower level players, that doesn't mean everyone else has to have the same opinion or should act accordingly.
As usual I figure some players consider tasks like the Sword Coast Chronicles to be unimportant because they likely already have better gear and boons than are afforded by that content, or some claim playing with new or low level players is an inconvience, but it seems to me those people are just looking at the issue from their own perspective and completely failing to consider the issue from any perspective other than their own... I believe there's a discriptive adjective for that.
Forum posts do not accurately portray the majority of anything outside of the thread, arguably not even a quarter of the player base utilizes the forums...
LLP's that leech and or AFK farm are a problem/inconvenience.
Again, if there were no leeching/AFK farming LLP's then things would be different though that is not the case. Wanting HLP's to be "appreciative" of and treat all LLP's kindly is quite silly, especially being that a number of them openly leech/AFK farm (do they all, no). Some HLP's treat all/most LLP's the same, some treat them accordingly (if they are putting in effort, good, if they are not then...).
All players that can queue have the right to be there and none have anymore right to be there than the others since there is a reward (RAD) that ALL can use. What's preventing cohesion is player attitude and leechers/AFK farmers.
Not really. If you disagree with those statements then address those that made them, those type of statements were not made from this end nor agreed with. It was stated in so many words if players can't play nice with each other that they should group up before queuing.
Going along with how you term and form things, there are FAR more HLP's than LLP's (actually players, not referring to leechers/AFK farmers) wouldn't it be simpler if the smaller of the two grouped up for LTC and or if there was a quest/tutorial system that "thoroughly" introduced them to group play instead of barring HLP's from LTC? What boons are associated with Sword Coast Chronicles deeds? None...
The value of the various rewards was brought up because once the tasks are completed on one character it is quite hard to relive the "magic" and being that most of the rewards can/will be obtained along the way to level 70 (and after) if not in greater quantity, rarity and value even if the deeds were skipped. That in no way means players have to skip them, players can complete all on every character if they choose though not many would once the "thrill" is gone
Insignias are common drops from queues.
Marks and stones are common drops from Dread Ring, particular enchantments and a particular insignia bonus.
Pretty much the sentiment of your posts here are in regard to HLP's either being barred from LTC (lower tier content) or not queuing for LTC unless they are open to "cater" to LLP's regardless of whether they are actually trying/willing to put forth effort (leechers/AFK farmers). You seem to be concerned very little if at all about the HLP's that continually get grouped with leechers/AFK farmers and either can't complete the queue or the time to complete has been increased simply due the ill intentions of another "player"(s). It was a fairly common situation before RQ's and even more common now being that private queues no longer grant bonus RAD and the player base is all piled together via the RQ system (private queues used to help players from being grouped with negative/not like minded players).
Even if you stray away from your sentiment a little bit you quickly return to it and continue to advocate for pushing HLP's out of/away from LTC. That surely and clearly is: For the most part your statements don't offer a resolution that aids both LLP's and HLP's, they simply aid LLP's. How is that even remotely fair, how does that promote cohesion within the player base?
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Forum posts may not represent the majority opinion of everyone playing Neverwinter on a given subject, but it is at least quantifiable, unlike someone claiming they are aware of the majority opinion - based on their own personal opinion or even the few people they know or have spoke with. Given the number of people who currently run random queues I figure you would have had to poll several thousand people to arrive at a "majority" consensus, and somehow I kind of doubt you've done that.
As I said the first time you questioned the Sword Coast Chronicles, there are awards and yes even boons available for players who complete those tasks...
No not all of the awards are "common drops" and some of them are even exclusive to the Sword Coast Chronicles content... for instance can you name any other content that drops the Symbols of Savaras?
Marks and stones may well be common drops in the Dread Ring, but as I stated previously you seem to be making statements from your perspective as a higher level character and either ignoring or refusing to consider anything from the perspective from any player who can't yet get to the Dread Ring, let alone successfully quest there, (the Dread Ring is level 70 content by the way) .
Players who do the Sword Coast Chronicles can collect higher level refining stones at level 18, after Black Dagger Ruins. Also as I stated there is gear and boons for individual players who follow the Sword Coast Chronicles, beginning I believe with level 60 - The Maze Engine and the Elemental campaigns, so your statements that there are no, "none" boons for players following the Sword Coast Chronicles content is contrary to actual and irrefutable fact.
I myself often play level 70 characters and I've stated I have nothing against higher level players paying lower level content, so long as they don't attempt to rag on lower level players for their behavior in content that is level appropriate to those players, and the only resaon I have suggested higher level players be barred from lower level content is because of higher level players complaining and booting lower level players from content approprate to lower leve players...
But I have begun to notice that while it still happens on occasion, there do appear to be fewer instances of that happening than there were several weeks ago.
So as a relatively higher level player myself, I can see and have advocated from the perspective of a higher level player and I have advocated from the perspective of a lower level player basically related to qualtifiable comments posted here, what I have personally witnessed and comments from some lower level players as well... where as you have only appeared to advocate and post from your own perspective, that of a higher level player, claiming you represent the "majority" opinion...
And that's all I care to say on this topic.
It was 2 people 1and they didn't know each other, why would a new level 12 player even expect a level 70 in a L12 dungeon (yeah I forgot to warn them). They wanted to go out and do things on their own to learn the game maybe meet others their level. You say they can group with friends you can say the same for a L70 established player they should know more in game people than a new player. New players get frustrated when they get zerged.
Lowbies running with highbies, don't stop to pick up every piece of HAMSTER on the floor, keep up. If you wanna explore, form a group and private q.
Highbies running with lowbies, just kill everything. Aggro everything, kill everything, seriously, it will literally take you a couple of seconds extra, and prevent "omg that HAMSTER died" syndrome while you're waiting in the circle for the last boss.
I mean guys the dungeon is already free for us, dont be lazy and put in more effort to make sure all party member made it to the end. Think of it as an escort mission not speed run. AD dont come free without an effort.
I've had a lowbie tell me that I was "impolite" because I didn't give him time to kill stuff on his own. The guy had been queuing for cragmire crypts, not random queue, trying to get a group of his level. I can understand the frustration but how "impolite" was he himself for telling me that I should stand back and watch him slowly kill stuff when my own expectation is to finish the dungeon ASAP for the daily RAD?
I had another one purposely make us all wait at the final boss' circle because "we had gone too fast" even though he hadn't said a word for the whole dungeon. I tried to kick that jerk but the timer prevented it.
Being a care-bear is cool but you have to keep in mind that low level players can be jerks just as much as high level ones.
Symbols of Savaras can be used to get x1 of about 5 items (about 2 of which can be gotten by other means, one has a rank 60 limit and 3 have alternatives that drop frequent enough from queues and or can be sold for others).
The Sword Coast chronicle DEEDS were brought up so as anyone that doesn't know and is reading through these posts will not think that they HAVE to complete deeds for a boon(s).
All HLP's don't "rag" on nor vote kick LLP's and arguably not even a large portion of them do so. Your suggestions about barring HLP's from LTC would punish a large portion of players that do neither (rag on/vote kick LLP's). You have taken this "isolated" incident and are treating it like it is a common situation for a large number of actual LLP's (not leechers/AFK Farmers).
Players that continually play don't remain a LLP forever and once a player achieves a lvl 70, for the most part even if they start another character chances are they aren't going to go through all of the things they did before. Not to mention the coveted "at level" experience that is claimed to be sought can be quite short lived at lowers levels, the biggest gap being between 19 (Cragmire Crypts) and 36 (Gray Wolf Den). Once a character has reached about 2 dungeons above their last they have essentially out leveled what is below and the XP from completions can make leveling a breeze, not to mention x2 XP events. Once a player reaches level 36 they can essentially one shot a lot in Cloak Tower, hell a player that becomes privy to bonding runestones and enchantments can do it sooner not to mention dark enchantments in utility slots will speed their movement up.
Leechers/AFK Farmers effect players of ALL level ranges, some here have even stated their encounters with them. LLP's are especially put at a disadvantage if one or more players don't participate due to the increased difficulty and or can't start/complete the content and HLP's are put at a disadvantage because they can't complete/start the content.
The prime suggestion for both groups is to pre-group, a plain and simple solution to a repeatedly self inflicted situation which doesn't require ousting players, coding, thoughts of how to implement, etc. though a number of posts here describe roundabout suggestions for such a situation.
Don't give others in the party a reason to complain (can't really get around "spoiling the experience" for LLP's if you kill everything as a HLP though unfortunately there are arguably a lot more players that would rather speed through than wait for others to sight see). If players want to do something "against the grain", that's what private q's can be used for so that they can proceed without disrupting others.
(Wanting to explore) + (wanting to speed run) = Dissonance
(Wanting to explore) + (Wanting to speed run + defeating all mobs) = Less Dissonance
(Wanting to explore though trying to keep up) + (Wanting to speed run + defeating all mobs) = Less/no dissonance
(Wanting to explore + pre-grouping with others that want to explore) + (group staying intact) = No dissonance
(Wanting to speed run + pre-grouping with others that want to speed run) + (group staying intact) = No dissonance
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen