Personally, I like the new system... I'm earning more AD and more Dungeoneers shards for my small guild than ever before. Qs are popping faster for me than ever before because I do not have a well organized guild or a friend's list a mile long so I do have to pug everything. I also love just the sheer randomness... kinda exciting wondering just where you're going to land. Do I think there could be some tweaks? Sure. I'm not saying the system is perfect. Just that I personally happen to like it.
@pterias the campaign keys are specific to a certain dungeon/skirmish/trial, if they mad it a universal key for second chest, player can farm more than 1 universal key, 3 from tod campaign(1for tiam/1for tuern/1for elol), 1 from dr(1 vt key), 1 from iwd(1kessel key), 2 from underdark(1 for ndemo/pom/throne and 1 for edemo/cn), and 2 from chult(1 for tomb 1 for folly), basicly player on a daily basis could farm 9 universal keys a day that would kill the dragon keys sales on the zen store
Yeah, but that's a lot of farming! Some campaigns that allow for multiple keys could just have one option that gives a universal key, like for ToD, just replace the Dragon Queen's key with universal key, the others still produce their current key. Same for Underdark, only the Greater Key would be universal, keep the current Lesser Key as is. Keep Folly Key as is too.
As is though, to farm all the keys as universal keys, it would take: Shar: 10 Sparks, 20 Crescents DR: 15 Scrips, 5 Scrolls IWD: 3 Dwarf Gold, 3 Tears, 10 Konig ToD: 2 Fangs, 10 Hoard Coins (other 2 keys would stay as is) UD: 300 Faez (Lesser Key would stay as is) STK: 2000 VBlod, 10 Supplies CA: 500 Treasures, 20 Evidence (has no cooldown, but Evidence is it's own bottleneck Chult: 25 Totems (keep Folly Key as it's own thing)
That's 8 sources per day, but that is a hamsterload of farming. I don't see that as gamebreaking since you'd probably come out ahead to use that time running the dungeons without the extra keys. It would free you up to farm a key or two in the content you're already running though and you can have what you need for whatever random dungeon you land in that day.
Edit: Oh yeah, this would also be fantastic if these universal keys would work for SVA/mSVA.
If we included queues like Fangbreaker and Spellplague which are not the highest item level, it starts to become significantly more nebulous about when something is moved out of that category and down into epic dungeons. It also means that queue cannot award bonus seals of the brave, though this is a comparably trivial issue. Mostly we'd like there to not be a whole lot of confusion and consternation about when things move from one category to another.
I don't follow your logic. It's just as bad having those 2 dungeons in with the epic dungeons considering they are significantly harder than the rest. It makes much more sense for anything harder than the old T2s to go into heroes accord.
It is my understanding that a player cannot access the Random Q until they unlock all of the dungeons within the random Q and need to have a IL high enough to run the dungeons. The point of Random Q is to encourage players to randomly q into content and provide bonus AD to those that have not run the content or based on the role needed.
Now I'm going to take a step back and make a point on how this system is counter productive to entice new player or old player running new character in this game. New level 70 characters and vets creating an alt to play pass 70 will now be required to complete all campaigns up to CoA before they start to earn bonus AD from the random Q. These same players will also have to get their character IL to around 12K.
The campaign part is not the issue but the IL requirement is as I see many players who are under 12K that cannot even do CN or eToS yet they are going into the latest campaign and working on it. The random Q from my PoV is good for long time vets but for anyone who is trying to get a new character through the game will find it annoying and may simply go elsewhere.
Now Random Q by Tier would be a better method and I hope the devs make this happen.
T1 would be for any character that is level 70 and under 9,000 IL T2 would be for any character that is between IL 9,000 and 13,000 IL T3 would be for any character that has IL 13,000K+
This would be a better random Q system and instead of it being separated by the type of content it is done by the content tier; therefore Skirmishes and Dungeons would be combined. The bonus AD from Random Q would be from 2 tier runs and if you try a 3rd time all you would get would be additional loot, nothing else.
This method would also ensure players of lower IL that are still working through the campaign can work on gaining AD to improve their character.
Right now, the system you have simply seems to prohibit NEW players and NEW characters at earning bonus AD to improve them. When your goal should be to entice the lower IL players into running more dungeons, not discouraging them.
Up until this latest patch totally shafted my progress (particularly with the inability to run skirmishes for AD anymore with my 9000 IL Main) I was planning on staying in this game and spending a lot of money during the Black Friday sale, but since the terrible patch that made it impossible for me to earn AD running the dungeons and I want/need or run any skirmishes for real amounts of AD at all, I've just decided to not stick around and spend money, and will just open my daily keys for a while, then quit when my VIP's gone.
These new changes are not respectful of my time, and don't add any fun to my experience. On the contrary, it limits my options and forces me to do stuff I don't want to do, making this "game" into something more akin to work that I'm supposed to want to pay for. When a game turns into work for me rather than play, and the developers don't listen to what me or like-minded people say, then I don't see a need to stick around.
I'm in a similar situation. My main is a DPS GF which means I get shoe-horned into being a tank for dungeon queues. I die repeatedly, the group fails, and I get nasty tells like, "Learn to tank loser". I don't want to tank, this character has never tanked. But I have no choice and it's ruined the game for me. And no, a load out doesn't fix the problem, I don't have tanking gear, enchants, or pets. I can't just wave a wand and become a tank that can tank eGWD let alone FBI. So I sit in town and craft and put up with bad RNG and wonder why I'm wasting my time on this "game" that has become a chore with no joy left in it for me.
It does stink that you have the option to make your toon however you want him/her (and shout out to the DPS GFs because it is NOT the path of least resistance and takes a heck of a lot of work) only to be told "Oh, you're cute. Let's not play like that anymore unless you want tons of abuse from people who think it's okay to abusive to strangers, 'kay?" I'm fortunate in that my sad attempt at a DPS GF was an alt, but some people are feeling this one pretty hard. That is an in game currency hit, so you all have my sympathies.
Other than that, though this doesn't seem to be the popular opinion here, I'm pleased with the changes. As I stated in a post a week or two ago, many XBox players have been watching 12b closely, and the effects were already felt. Half my guild quit playing. There just wasn't any point anymore when shards were going to be an insurmountable issue. We really appreciate that problem being fixed. Once the word got out, we all were back on this weekend. Guilds mean more to some than others, so I can see why that may not be the case with everyone, but hey.... we're thankful.
It is my understanding that a player cannot access the Random Q until they unlock all of the dungeons within the random Q and need to have a IL high enough to run the dungeons. The point of Random Q is to encourage players to randomly q into content and provide bonus AD to those that have not run the content or based on the role needed.
Now I'm going to take a step back and make a point on how this system is counter productive to entice new player or old player running new character in this game. New level 70 characters and vets creating an alt to play pass 70 will now be required to complete all campaigns up to CoA before they start to earn bonus AD from the random Q. These same players will also have to get their character IL to around 12K.
The campaign part is not the issue but the IL requirement is as I see many players who are under 12K that cannot even do CN or eToS yet they are going into the latest campaign and working on it. The random Q from my PoV is good for long time vets but for anyone who is trying to get a new character through the game will find it annoying and may simply go elsewhere.
Now Random Q by Tier would be a better method and I hope the devs make this happen.
T1 would be for any character that is level 70 and under 9,000 IL T2 would be for any character that is between IL 9,000 and 13,000 IL T3 would be for any character that has IL 13,000K+
This would be a better random Q system and instead of it being separated by the type of content it is done by the content tier; therefore Skirmishes and Dungeons would be combined. The bonus AD from Random Q would be from 2 tier runs and if you try a 3rd time all you would get would be additional loot, nothing else.
This method would also ensure players of lower IL that are still working through the campaign can work on gaining AD to improve their character.
Right now, the system you have simply seems to prohibit NEW players and NEW characters at earning bonus AD to improve them. When your goal should be to entice the lower IL players into running more dungeons, not discouraging them.
I've mentioned this before, but I don't think there needs to be T1, T2 and T3 random queues on top of leveling random queues. As the current content stands.
The IL difference between 7.5K and 8.4K is not huge, and the number of dungeons within each category would very quickly see the majority of players queueing for a small number of T2 dungeons.
Simply having Leveling RQ, T1-T2 RQ and T3+ RQ with Heroes Accord above that allows players to get from L70 to 8.4K while still using leveling dungeons, (and while that's not ideal, it's far more manageable than the the current 11K) those above 8.4k but less than 12k to play the T1-T2 and 11K plus to initially have access to T3 when it drops. With 12K having access to Heroes Accord.
Heroes Accord could initially hold the top two highest gateway content. As it stands it has only one. If the 11K FBI and MSP were to be added to it, as new 12K content is added that would join Heroes Accord until the first 13K dungeon drops, at which point FBI and MSP drop into the (new) T3 RQ. As 13K dungeons are added they continue to drop into Heroes Accord until a 14K lands and then TONG and the other 12K dungeons drop into the T3+ alongside FBI and MSP.
Of course, this means that the entry reqs for T3 will go up as the new content drops, but those characters will still have access to T1-T2, rather than having to drop into leveling dungeons at IL's like 11.9k (And to anyone who believes that is a fitting and reasonable idea... sorry... I think you're barmy!)
This avoids Epic Random Queue becoming more and more distant from new players as that stupidly high content drops from HA into ERQ. Which is the dumbest part of the entire Random Queue mess.
But as I mentioned before... IF they were to reintroduce the old dunegeons split into T1 and T2 equivalents that might open up enough content to warrant a T1RQ, AND aT2RQ, as well as the above. Just with the current number of dungeons, I don't think there's enough material to provide sufficient variety for multiple queue lists.
But of course, as this might not see loads of pointless runs of FBI and MSP popping more often than before, it is highly unlikely that such a thing will happen.
We're making some initial updates to Random Queues! Check out the Developer Blog here.
Thank you for being willing to make changes in response to public outcry. My suggestion is to allow one solo dungeon with choice and one group dungeon with choice with random being the only choice for a second run. Thanks
@mordekai#7296 I think their plan for Hero’s Accord is that it should be the highest level dungeon with bonus rewards for the highest level content
I think this best explains their reluctance to add the other t3 dungeons to it, even in the face of all the obvious logical reasons this is silly
I wish I didn’t have to guess at what these folks are thinking, but we clearly have a mostly one-way communication situation here
At some point, the tiering system that is already in the game will have to be acknowledged, since as you say one day there will be t1-t5+ dungeons stacked up in ERQ which would just make it stupid
More stupid
I agree that bringing back the old dungeons might give us a bigger pool to work with and make this easier to work out, but so much has been said by so many people at this point that it seems the game community is just waiting around to see if the game developers will someday just simply throw us a bone and acknowledge that we exist
This is all clearly the difference between thinking of your players as assets vs resources, and unfortunately it seems things are going to continue to be done to us instead of for us until enough of us leave to change that
> @mordekai#1901 said: > It is my understanding that a player cannot access the Random Q until they unlock all of the dungeons within the random Q and need to have a IL high enough to run the dungeons. The point of Random Q is to encourage players to randomly q into content and provide bonus AD to those that have not run the content or based on the role needed. > > Now I'm going to take a step back and make a point on how this system is counter productive to entice new player or old player running new character in this game. New level 70 characters and vets creating an alt to play pass 70 will now be required to complete all campaigns up to CoA before they start to earn bonus AD from the random Q. These same players will also have to get their character IL to around 12K. > > The campaign part is not the issue but the IL requirement is as I see many players who are under 12K that cannot even do CN or eToS yet they are going into the latest campaign and working on it. The random Q from my PoV is good for long time vets but for anyone who is trying to get a new character through the game will find it annoying and may simply go elsewhere. > > Now Random Q by Tier would be a better method and I hope the devs make this happen. > > T1 would be for any character that is level 70 and under 9,000 IL > T2 would be for any character that is between IL 9,000 and 13,000 IL > T3 would be for any character that has IL 13,000K+ > > This would be a better random Q system and instead of it being separated by the type of content it is done by the content tier; therefore Skirmishes and Dungeons would be combined. The bonus AD from Random Q would be from 2 tier runs and if you try a 3rd time all you would get would be additional loot, nothing else. > > This method would also ensure players of lower IL that are still working through the campaign can work on gaining AD to improve their character. > > Right now, the system you have simply seems to prohibit NEW players and NEW characters at earning bonus AD to improve them. When your goal should be to entice the lower IL players into running more dungeons, not discouraging them. > > > > > > > I've mentioned this before, but I don't think there needs to be T1, T2 and T3 random queues on top of leveling random queues. As the current content stands. > > The IL difference between 7.5K and 8.4K is not huge, and the number of dungeons within each category would very quickly see the majority of players queueing for a small number of T2 dungeons. >
Once again... IL is a totally arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difference in difficulty between Malabog/Valindra and ECC/EToS/EGWD.
So many replies and I don't have time to read through all but...
I'm glad some of the issues are being considered and fixed. Small guilds were getting really screwed by this. Personally I think there should be a compromise done here... allow for Random Queues in Private for AD. Don't force people to do pug groups. It seems the devs don't seem to have any idea (no insult meant) just how incredibly stressful pug groups are. I am very upset by the manditory random queue for AD and guild quests. What was so bad about people choosing the content they wished to play?
Most importantly: Fix SVA omg please! I've been on 2 sucessful (non glitched) runs of this and have been put in random queue for it many times, as has my husband. The boss will randomly stop attacking. We'll bring him down to 0 and we lose the skirmish. Are you guys even aware of this? If you leave a random queue = 0 AD and a penalty of waiting to have to go back in.
I never ever do pug groups.... now I'm forced. If you get unlucky in a baby dungeon you can get kicked if the other 2 think you're going too slow or too fast. How is that fair? What is so wrong with being able to solo this stuff or queue private with friends for random? I hate the random thing all together but would a compromise be so bad? Just food for thought.
These changes were made for money spending power gamers. We know you guys have to make a living too but don't put out a "free to play" game that screws over the ones who love the game and can't afford to pay for stuff.
I went into a random epic trial, got nDemo and because I wasn't in the circle for maybe 10-20 seconds, I got trolled and people threatened to kick me or tried to convince others to vote me out. I was litterally the only tank and got top healer and imovable object in that run. Random public queue = bullies, stress, anxiety. Why do that to people who are trying to earn the main #1 currency in the game: Astral Diamonds?
When possible we’d all prefer players to play with their friends and guildmates, and so we haven’t excluded the option to queue with a full group, but we’d like to create an experience that is generally positive when players do queue by themselves or in a partial group.
So far what I have found is A: people who can't reply due to the chat restriction(which is great to stop spammers, not so great when trying to help new people) B: people who for one reason of another remain in the starting area or get lost in the map even when you try to get them to follow you C: Players who don't listen to the group in place's such as Throne and just end up spoiling the run for everyone else all of the above players being kicked because of the above.
I don't mind helping the odd person here and there but to be forced into situations to try an maintain my normal game play an routine is a little over the top.
Once again... IL is a totally arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difference in difficulty between Malabog/Valindra and ECC/EToS/EGWD.
We need 3 tiers.
It's not arbitrary its fixed on what gear you have and that gear's power level. It might be many things, but arbitrary is not one of them.
I'm afraid I'm with asrodahl on this, it would become silly if you make random queues too specific, cos how do we show the subequent difference in difficulty between ECC and CN? A T2.5 random queue with just Castle Never, cos ... you know... its harder than EToS? Random Queues with only a few dungeons are not going to provide any real variety.
There comes a point where practicality beats out idealism.
Untill you reach a certain gear/build structure/understanding of the game, there will be content that is not easy to complete. Locking out 8.4k dungeons to players up to 9k seems like a bit of an odd, (one might say "arbitrary") safety blanket, when there are characters at 8.4k who will be able to complete those dungeons.
And if IL is so meaningles why that number? What makes 9000 IL so much more of a key to the gate than 8.4K
And for T1 dungeons... you think there should be no IL gate at all? Interesting... cos if there is one stage of IL that actually IS reflective of a characters gear, it is right at the start. Someone coming out of Elemental Evil with the armour and gear from that campaign and tackling the Twin Fire Scorpions? Sorry... I don't see that going very well at all and they'd have a 1 in 3 chance of that happening.
You seem to be suggesting upper limits by saying players should be between X and Y, how would that be enforced? Assuming people would still be allowed to drop down a tier, how would the daily RAD bonus work? Would it be split between three tiers requiring more random queue dungeons 1 in each queue, or would it just be for the first dungeon in any category? If the latter were the case what would be the incentive to run anything above T1?
> It is my understanding that a player cannot access the Random Q until they unlock all of the dungeons within the random Q and need to have a IL high enough to run the dungeons. The point of Random Q is to encourage players to randomly q into content and provide bonus AD to those that have not run the content or based on the role needed.
>
> Now I'm going to take a step back and make a point on how this system is counter productive to entice new player or old player running new character in this game. New level 70 characters and vets creating an alt to play pass 70 will now be required to complete all campaigns up to CoA before they start to earn bonus AD from the random Q. These same players will also have to get their character IL to around 12K.
>
> The campaign part is not the issue but the IL requirement is as I see many players who are under 12K that cannot even do CN or eToS yet they are going into the latest campaign and working on it. The random Q from my PoV is good for long time vets but for anyone who is trying to get a new character through the game will find it annoying and may simply go elsewhere.
>
> Now Random Q by Tier would be a better method and I hope the devs make this happen.
>
> T1 would be for any character that is level 70 and under 9,000 IL
> T2 would be for any character that is between IL 9,000 and 13,000 IL
> T3 would be for any character that has IL 13,000K+
>
> This would be a better random Q system and instead of it being separated by the type of content it is done by the content tier; therefore Skirmishes and Dungeons would be combined. The bonus AD from Random Q would be from 2 tier runs and if you try a 3rd time all you would get would be additional loot, nothing else.
>
> This method would also ensure players of lower IL that are still working through the campaign can work on gaining AD to improve their character.
>
> Right now, the system you have simply seems to prohibit NEW players and NEW characters at earning bonus AD to improve them. When your goal should be to entice the lower IL players into running more dungeons, not discouraging them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've mentioned this before, but I don't think there needs to be T1, T2 and T3 random queues on top of leveling random queues. As the current content stands.
>
> The IL difference between 7.5K and 8.4K is not huge, and the number of dungeons within each category would very quickly see the majority of players queueing for a small number of T2 dungeons.
>
Once again... IL is a totally arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difference in difficulty between Malabog/Valindra and ECC/EToS/EGWD.
We need 3 tiers.
You rationalise it by saying Malabogs and Valindra's compared to EToS, etc, but you are recommending a model where characters fresh out of Elemental Evil would be fighting Twin Fire Scorpions in Lostmauth.
IL isn't arbitrary, its anything but. Its so not arbitrary that that's the problem. Its too rigid in its system of awarding points for colour rather than usefulness. Indiscriminate, maybe, but arbitrary? Not really.
I dont understand how you can equate having no IL entry requirement at all for the likes of Lostmauth (7.5k) with a 9k gate for EToS (8.4k) cos if we're talking "arbitrary" that looks like it right there.
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seridkalsenovMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 30Arc User
the big problem of Random que was the FBI, MSP part. 11k if that was a guild or premade group there is a possibility to finish it but random pug probabaly 5% chance to finish it or maybe lower than that. well MSP is not that bad like FBI where EF dmg can 1 shotted everyone even through DC Astral Shield and KV, but the mob is still not meant for low geared/first time player. so please make those 2 dungeon on difference bar like ToNG. for exp player is not a big problem but for first time player IT IS.
Slicing and dicing queues silos players by their gear score and adds friction to the matching system. The system will be making mostly at-level runs, we all know those usually don't end well for pugs. The current system, while it's not perfect, is pretty good.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,405Arc User
If you leave a random queue = 0 AD and a penalty of waiting to have to go back in.
If you draw a hard run like FBI/mSP/mSVA, wait a few seconds. Chances are, someone will leave. Then you can leave without a penalty.
Are you saying only the first leaver will draw the penalty? By the way, if you are vote kicked, will you draw the penalty?
Yes, the first leaver takes the bullet (penalty) for the rest of the team. I don't know about being kicked. Hasn't happen to me yet.
I rarely got FBI/mSP/mSVA. It's usually because some new player who don't know any better directly queue up for them. But they will learn.
Thank you and I guess that explains the behaviour of a jerk I encountered. It was a Throne run, nothing special. The person came in. Not moving. Then, starting dancing. Then, took off the clothes and lay on the floor. The rest of us did not react besides asking him to come into the circle nicely. The guy came into the circle, triggered the timer and then ran out. He kept on doing that. We could not kick him until after certain time and I do not know if he was kicked and just left. I am thinking he was waiting for someone to be very upset and quit first.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @mordekai#1901 said: > Once again... IL is a totally arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difference in difficulty between Malabog/Valindra and ECC/EToS/EGWD. > > > > We need 3 tiers. > > It's not arbitrary its fixed on what gear you have and that gear's power level. > It might be many things, but arbitrary is not one of them. >
It's absolutely arbitrary when you actually read what I said. The IL requirement number is some made up number and, once again for the third time for you, doesn't even come close to visualizing the difficulty difference between T1 and T2 dungeons. Yes, it may be only 900 IL difference or whatever it is, but it's a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> made up number that doesn't mean anything.
And these are some of the many reasons I loved soloing, and just inviting a couple friends. But now I can't solo anything and get rewards. Which doesn't matter anyway, because now that my sw is borked, she can't solo much of anything anymore anyway. I tried her in KR after all this mess. She took a lot longer to kill and the mobs and boss are a lot stronger now. And I was told it's not just the SWs that are weaker now. I've heard a lot of complaints from different classes that they die more and take longer to kill. Who thought all these changes would be more fun? That doing random dungeons that we may not have been ready for in the first place, would make it more fun for everyone? That this would stop the harassing by people that enjoy making others miserable? That dragging out the kill time on mobs and bosses are more fun? That after working on your tank (friends GF) to get him up to being able to tank a boss, that now killed him 3 times isn't embarrassing or frustrating? If it ain't broke...don't fix it. (but now that everything is broke...please fix it)
First i'd like to mention that this change is so very poorly timed. Should have waited until after the holiday sales.
I am sure many long time players like to purchase their VIP on the holiday weekend and that means many of those subscriptions are about to expire (Mine expired yesterday) and like myself are seriously wondering whats the point in renewing? Should I buy another year? Should i get some more bank slots companions or wahtever? Should i just do weeklies and professions until Christmas and see how i feel then?
Aside from the extensive grinding on multi characters (like 60 runs of gyrion for tainted soil or 20 other similar needs/goals), running my CHOICE of skirmishes and the odd dungeon or two that I wanted was part of the game - that WAS fun for me.
I've been playing the game since end of beta, basically coming up on 5 years. This summer i was able to do kessels retreat and most times shores of tourn by myself and that was a big milestone which I love doing it by myself. You could say it wasnt meant for that but really all that development on a main who is about 14.8k il cost at least 60mil AD over 4 years. To have the choice to run kessels by yourself to make 15k a day is not unreasonable. In 2 weeks running it twice a day i got 2 green companions where one sold for 5k and the other didnt sell in 3 shots. With no AD reward all your really doing is rewards from quartermaster/dragon hoard so now what?
Personally, I stopped pugging after the Daily Dungeon Events were killed and all the dungeons removed (i just loved zerging pirates on those DD's) Tiamat and Demo not withstanding however just the odd CHOICE dungeon of with guildies. Shared queue as a CHOICE is a great idea for groups though if your group could select the appropriate tier. As a pug though the bucket of dungeons is too varied at the VERY least. Even my 14.8k gwf would be laughed at by some groups.
Higher rewards for a shared queue would draw more people to that queue over the standard Freedom queue, no need to punish those players.
last gripe... apologies for the embedded wining in this post, im obviously not happy loosing freedom to choose your content and the income that went with it. The fact that I think this is my first post in nearly 5 years should underscore that...
Oh look a CTA event! Oh yea No rewards why bother lol so good thing i stopped doing those - seems to be a pattern here... and theres always that one freeloader sitting at the campfire that you cant kick which drives me bonkers...
Ok apologies for more wining but some more venting is required Though hopefully more constructive than my last post.
Freedom queue or Shared queueu really comes down to 2 things, SOCIAL or ADVANCEMENT.
Anemic rewards and prices only the bots can afford force players into anti-social playing habits when they need to make $$$ or do campaign work (which is generally anti-social due to player schedule - ie "do i just finish the quests or wait 20min for this one guy to show up, and that other guy to finish feeding his dog..")
Forced Shared Queues - Social, little advancement: ---------------------------------------------
Forcing Shared queues is great for social, sure there is some AD and maybe a green bear companion you can sell for 5k if you post it a few times... However people need to advance, people want to be competitive and people NEED to make $$$ to get there. 30-40k a day over 2-3 characters is not an income that will get you much.
Freedom to choose - Anti-social, slave but progress: ----------------------------------------------
With freedom to choose and you are a slave but if you want to approach BIS you have to do what you have to. I tried running Cloak Tower on 10 chars every day and i lasted almost 3 weeks, mind numbing but it was at least good honest work. This is likely much of the truth behind much of the other complaints. AD is critical for advancement and it comes in at a trickle.
Ok hopefully i dont degrade too far here but... I have had VIP for 2+ years, a month or two after it started and after close to 800 keys i still have gotten NOTHING legendary. I am staring at legendary mounts for 10-20 Mill back then and still today. Im quite annoyed at this but its not my whole point here - If 800 keys wont do it you have to buy one so...
Doing the math its even more ridiculous. As an income, regardless of having the freedom to choose or forcing shared queue participation the truth is this:
- 10mill for the record to get one of those mounts at 15k per day dungeon rewards is over 1300 runs. - Want that 8.5mil maxed lighting enchant? another 1100 runs. - Im all R12's at the moment i need all R13's... whats that 10mil / 1300 runs?
Oh yea darn you can only do 2 per day on that char to get rewards. Sometimes you just have to sit back, re-evaluate and go ... daaaammmnnn
Comments
Do I think there could be some tweaks? Sure. I'm not saying the system is perfect. Just that I personally happen to like it.
As is though, to farm all the keys as universal keys, it would take:
Shar: 10 Sparks, 20 Crescents
DR: 15 Scrips, 5 Scrolls
IWD: 3 Dwarf Gold, 3 Tears, 10 Konig
ToD: 2 Fangs, 10 Hoard Coins (other 2 keys would stay as is)
UD: 300 Faez (Lesser Key would stay as is)
STK: 2000 VBlod, 10 Supplies
CA: 500 Treasures, 20 Evidence (has no cooldown, but Evidence is it's own bottleneck
Chult: 25 Totems (keep Folly Key as it's own thing)
That's 8 sources per day, but that is a hamsterload of farming. I don't see that as gamebreaking since you'd probably come out ahead to use that time running the dungeons without the extra keys. It would free you up to farm a key or two in the content you're already running though and you can have what you need for whatever random dungeon you land in that day.
Edit: Oh yeah, this would also be fantastic if these universal keys would work for SVA/mSVA.
Now I'm going to take a step back and make a point on how this system is counter productive to entice new player or old player running new character in this game. New level 70 characters and vets creating an alt to play pass 70 will now be required to complete all campaigns up to CoA before they start to earn bonus AD from the random Q. These same players will also have to get their character IL to around 12K.
The campaign part is not the issue but the IL requirement is as I see many players who are under 12K that cannot even do CN or eToS yet they are going into the latest campaign and working on it. The random Q from my PoV is good for long time vets but for anyone who is trying to get a new character through the game will find it annoying and may simply go elsewhere.
Now Random Q by Tier would be a better method and I hope the devs make this happen.
T1 would be for any character that is level 70 and under 9,000 IL
T2 would be for any character that is between IL 9,000 and 13,000 IL
T3 would be for any character that has IL 13,000K+
This would be a better random Q system and instead of it being separated by the type of content it is done by the content tier; therefore Skirmishes and Dungeons would be combined. The bonus AD from Random Q would be from 2 tier runs and if you try a 3rd time all you would get would be additional loot, nothing else.
This method would also ensure players of lower IL that are still working through the campaign can work on gaining AD to improve their character.
Right now, the system you have simply seems to prohibit NEW players and NEW characters at earning bonus AD to improve them. When your goal should be to entice the lower IL players into running more dungeons, not discouraging them.
Other than that, though this doesn't seem to be the popular opinion here, I'm pleased with the changes. As I stated in a post a week or two ago, many XBox players have been watching 12b closely, and the effects were already felt. Half my guild quit playing. There just wasn't any point anymore when shards were going to be an insurmountable issue. We really appreciate that problem being fixed. Once the word got out, we all were back on this weekend. Guilds mean more to some than others, so I can see why that may not be the case with everyone, but hey.... we're thankful.
The IL difference between 7.5K and 8.4K is not huge, and the number of dungeons within each category would very quickly see the majority of players queueing for a small number of T2 dungeons.
Simply having Leveling RQ, T1-T2 RQ and T3+ RQ with Heroes Accord above that allows players to get from L70 to 8.4K while still using leveling dungeons, (and while that's not ideal, it's far more manageable than the the current 11K) those above 8.4k but less than 12k to play the T1-T2 and 11K plus to initially have access to T3 when it drops. With 12K having access to Heroes Accord.
Heroes Accord could initially hold the top two highest gateway content. As it stands it has only one.
If the 11K FBI and MSP were to be added to it, as new 12K content is added that would join Heroes Accord until the first 13K dungeon drops, at which point FBI and MSP drop into the (new) T3 RQ.
As 13K dungeons are added they continue to drop into Heroes Accord until a 14K lands and then TONG and the other 12K dungeons drop into the T3+ alongside FBI and MSP.
Of course, this means that the entry reqs for T3 will go up as the new content drops, but those characters will still have access to T1-T2, rather than having to drop into leveling dungeons at IL's like 11.9k (And to anyone who believes that is a fitting and reasonable idea... sorry... I think you're barmy!)
This avoids Epic Random Queue becoming more and more distant from new players as that stupidly high content drops from HA into ERQ. Which is the dumbest part of the entire Random Queue mess.
But as I mentioned before... IF they were to reintroduce the old dunegeons split into T1 and T2 equivalents that might open up enough content to warrant a T1RQ, AND aT2RQ, as well as the above. Just with the current number of dungeons, I don't think there's enough material to provide sufficient variety for multiple queue lists.
But of course, as this might not see loads of pointless runs of FBI and MSP popping more often than before, it is highly unlikely that such a thing will happen.
I think this best explains their reluctance to add the other t3 dungeons to it, even in the face of all the obvious logical reasons this is silly
I wish I didn’t have to guess at what these folks are thinking, but we clearly have a mostly one-way communication situation here
At some point, the tiering system that is already in the game will have to be acknowledged, since as you say one day there will be t1-t5+ dungeons stacked up in ERQ which would just make it stupid
More stupid
I agree that bringing back the old dungeons might give us a bigger pool to work with and make this easier to work out, but so much has been said by so many people at this point that it seems the game community is just waiting around to see if the game developers will someday just simply throw us a bone and acknowledge that we exist
This is all clearly the difference between thinking of your players as assets vs resources, and unfortunately it seems things are going to continue to be done to us instead of for us until enough of us leave to change that
Hopefully it won’t be too late at that point
> It is my understanding that a player cannot access the Random Q until they unlock all of the dungeons within the random Q and need to have a IL high enough to run the dungeons. The point of Random Q is to encourage players to randomly q into content and provide bonus AD to those that have not run the content or based on the role needed.
>
> Now I'm going to take a step back and make a point on how this system is counter productive to entice new player or old player running new character in this game. New level 70 characters and vets creating an alt to play pass 70 will now be required to complete all campaigns up to CoA before they start to earn bonus AD from the random Q. These same players will also have to get their character IL to around 12K.
>
> The campaign part is not the issue but the IL requirement is as I see many players who are under 12K that cannot even do CN or eToS yet they are going into the latest campaign and working on it. The random Q from my PoV is good for long time vets but for anyone who is trying to get a new character through the game will find it annoying and may simply go elsewhere.
>
> Now Random Q by Tier would be a better method and I hope the devs make this happen.
>
> T1 would be for any character that is level 70 and under 9,000 IL
> T2 would be for any character that is between IL 9,000 and 13,000 IL
> T3 would be for any character that has IL 13,000K+
>
> This would be a better random Q system and instead of it being separated by the type of content it is done by the content tier; therefore Skirmishes and Dungeons would be combined. The bonus AD from Random Q would be from 2 tier runs and if you try a 3rd time all you would get would be additional loot, nothing else.
>
> This method would also ensure players of lower IL that are still working through the campaign can work on gaining AD to improve their character.
>
> Right now, the system you have simply seems to prohibit NEW players and NEW characters at earning bonus AD to improve them. When your goal should be to entice the lower IL players into running more dungeons, not discouraging them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've mentioned this before, but I don't think there needs to be T1, T2 and T3 random queues on top of leveling random queues. As the current content stands.
>
> The IL difference between 7.5K and 8.4K is not huge, and the number of dungeons within each category would very quickly see the majority of players queueing for a small number of T2 dungeons.
>
Once again... IL is a totally arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difference in difficulty between Malabog/Valindra and ECC/EToS/EGWD.
We need 3 tiers.
I'm glad some of the issues are being considered and fixed. Small guilds were getting really screwed by this.
Personally I think there should be a compromise done here... allow for Random Queues in Private for AD. Don't force people to do pug groups. It seems the devs don't seem to have any idea (no insult meant) just how incredibly stressful pug groups are. I am very upset by the manditory random queue for AD and guild quests. What was so bad about people choosing the content they wished to play?
Most importantly: Fix SVA omg please! I've been on 2 sucessful (non glitched) runs of this and have been put in random queue for it many times, as has my husband. The boss will randomly stop attacking. We'll bring him down to 0 and we lose the skirmish. Are you guys even aware of this? If you leave a random queue = 0 AD and a penalty of waiting to have to go back in.
I never ever do pug groups.... now I'm forced. If you get unlucky in a baby dungeon you can get kicked if the other 2 think you're going too slow or too fast. How is that fair? What is so wrong with being able to solo this stuff or queue private with friends for random? I hate the random thing all together but would a compromise be so bad? Just food for thought.
These changes were made for money spending power gamers. We know you guys have to make a living too but don't put out a "free to play" game that screws over the ones who love the game and can't afford to pay for stuff.
I went into a random epic trial, got nDemo and because I wasn't in the circle for maybe 10-20 seconds, I got trolled and people threatened to kick me or tried to convince others to vote me out. I was litterally the only tank and got top healer and imovable object in that run. Random public queue = bullies, stress, anxiety. Why do that to people who are trying to earn the main #1 currency in the game: Astral Diamonds?
By the way, if you are vote kicked, will you draw the penalty?
A: people who can't reply due to the chat restriction(which is great to stop spammers, not so great when trying to help new people)
B: people who for one reason of another remain in the starting area or get lost in the map even when you try to get them to follow you
C: Players who don't listen to the group in place's such as Throne and just end up spoiling the run for everyone else
I don't mind helping the odd person here and there but to be forced into situations to try an maintain my normal game play an routine is a little over the top.
It might be many things, but arbitrary is not one of them.
I'm afraid I'm with asrodahl on this, it would become silly if you make random queues too specific, cos how do we show the subequent difference in difficulty between ECC and CN?
A T2.5 random queue with just Castle Never, cos ... you know... its harder than EToS?
Random Queues with only a few dungeons are not going to provide any real variety.
There comes a point where practicality beats out idealism.
Untill you reach a certain gear/build structure/understanding of the game, there will be content that is not easy to complete.
Locking out 8.4k dungeons to players up to 9k seems like a bit of an odd, (one might say "arbitrary") safety blanket, when there are characters at 8.4k who will be able to complete those dungeons.
And if IL is so meaningles why that number? What makes 9000 IL so much more of a key to the gate than 8.4K
And for T1 dungeons... you think there should be no IL gate at all?
Interesting... cos if there is one stage of IL that actually IS reflective of a characters gear, it is right at the start.
Someone coming out of Elemental Evil with the armour and gear from that campaign and tackling the Twin Fire Scorpions?
Sorry... I don't see that going very well at all and they'd have a 1 in 3 chance of that happening.
You seem to be suggesting upper limits by saying players should be between X and Y, how would that be enforced?
Assuming people would still be allowed to drop down a tier, how would the daily RAD bonus work?
Would it be split between three tiers requiring more random queue dungeons 1 in each queue, or would it just be for the first dungeon in any category? If the latter were the case what would be the incentive to run anything above T1? You rationalise it by saying Malabogs and Valindra's compared to EToS, etc, but you are recommending a model where characters fresh out of Elemental Evil would be fighting Twin Fire Scorpions in Lostmauth.
IL isn't arbitrary, its anything but.
Its so not arbitrary that that's the problem. Its too rigid in its system of awarding points for colour rather than usefulness.
Indiscriminate, maybe, but arbitrary? Not really.
I dont understand how you can equate having no IL entry requirement at all for the likes of Lostmauth (7.5k) with a 9k gate for EToS (8.4k) cos if we're talking "arbitrary" that looks like it right there.
11k if that was a guild or premade group there is a possibility to finish it but random pug probabaly 5% chance to finish it or maybe lower than that. well MSP is not that bad like FBI where EF dmg can 1 shotted everyone even through DC Astral Shield and KV, but the mob is still not meant for low geared/first time player. so please make those 2 dungeon on difference bar like ToNG. for exp player is not a big problem but for first time player IT IS.
I don't know about being kicked. Hasn't happen to me yet.
I rarely got FBI/mSP/mSVA. It's usually because some new player who don't know any better directly queue up for them. But they will learn.
> Once again... IL is a totally arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difference in difficulty between Malabog/Valindra and ECC/EToS/EGWD.
>
>
>
> We need 3 tiers.
>
> It's not arbitrary its fixed on what gear you have and that gear's power level.
> It might be many things, but arbitrary is not one of them.
>
It's absolutely arbitrary when you actually read what I said. The IL requirement number is some made up number and, once again for the third time for you, doesn't even come close to visualizing the difficulty difference between T1 and T2 dungeons. Yes, it may be only 900 IL difference or whatever it is, but it's a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> made up number that doesn't mean anything.
We need 3 Qs.
Who thought all these changes would be more fun? That doing random dungeons that we may not have been ready for in the first place, would make it more fun for everyone? That this would stop the harassing by people that enjoy making others miserable? That dragging out the kill time on mobs and bosses are more fun? That after working on your tank (friends GF) to get him up to being able to tank a boss, that now killed him 3 times isn't embarrassing or frustrating?
If it ain't broke...don't fix it. (but now that everything is broke...please fix it)
I am sure many long time players like to purchase their VIP on the holiday weekend and that means many of those subscriptions are about to expire (Mine expired yesterday) and like myself are seriously wondering whats the point in renewing? Should I buy another year? Should i get some more bank slots companions or wahtever? Should i just do weeklies and professions until Christmas and see how i feel then?
Aside from the extensive grinding on multi characters (like 60 runs of gyrion for tainted soil or 20 other similar needs/goals), running my CHOICE of skirmishes and the odd dungeon or two that I wanted was part of the game - that WAS fun for me.
I've been playing the game since end of beta, basically coming up on 5 years. This summer i was able to do kessels retreat and most times shores of tourn by myself and that was a big milestone which I love doing it by myself. You could say it wasnt meant for that but really all that development on a main who is about 14.8k il cost at least 60mil AD over 4 years. To have the choice to run kessels by yourself to make 15k a day is not unreasonable. In 2 weeks running it twice a day i got 2 green companions where one sold for 5k and the other didnt sell in 3 shots. With no AD reward all your really doing is rewards from quartermaster/dragon hoard so now what?
Personally, I stopped pugging after the Daily Dungeon Events were killed and all the dungeons removed (i just loved zerging pirates on those DD's) Tiamat and Demo not withstanding however just the odd CHOICE dungeon of with guildies. Shared queue as a CHOICE is a great idea for groups though if your group could select the appropriate tier. As a pug though the bucket of dungeons is too varied at the VERY least. Even my 14.8k gwf would be laughed at by some groups.
Higher rewards for a shared queue would draw more people to that queue over the standard Freedom queue, no need to punish those players.
last gripe... apologies for the embedded wining in this post, im obviously not happy loosing freedom to choose your content and the income that went with it. The fact that I think this is my first post in nearly 5 years should underscore that...
Oh look a CTA event! Oh yea No rewards why bother lol so good thing i stopped doing those - seems to be a pattern here... and theres always that one freeloader sitting at the campfire that you cant kick which drives me bonkers...
Freedom queue or Shared queueu really comes down to 2 things, SOCIAL or ADVANCEMENT.
Anemic rewards and prices only the bots can afford force players into anti-social playing habits when they need to make $$$ or do campaign work (which is generally anti-social due to player schedule - ie "do i just finish the quests or wait 20min for this one guy to show up, and that other guy to finish feeding his dog..")
Forced Shared Queues - Social, little advancement:
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Forcing Shared queues is great for social, sure there is some AD and maybe a green bear companion you can sell for 5k if you post it a few times... However people need to advance, people want to be competitive and people NEED to make $$$ to get there. 30-40k a day over 2-3 characters is not an income that will get you much.
Freedom to choose - Anti-social, slave but progress:
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With freedom to choose and you are a slave but if you want to approach BIS you have to do what you have to. I tried running Cloak Tower on 10 chars every day and i lasted almost 3 weeks, mind numbing but it was at least good honest work. This is likely much of the truth behind much of the other complaints. AD is critical for advancement and it comes in at a trickle.
Ok hopefully i dont degrade too far here but... I have had VIP for 2+ years, a month or two after it started and after close to 800 keys i still have gotten NOTHING legendary. I am staring at legendary mounts for 10-20 Mill back then and still today. Im quite annoyed at this but its not my whole point here - If 800 keys wont do it you have to buy one so...
Doing the math its even more ridiculous. As an income, regardless of having the freedom to choose or forcing shared queue participation the truth is this:
- 10mill for the record to get one of those mounts at 15k per day dungeon rewards is over 1300 runs.
- Want that 8.5mil maxed lighting enchant? another 1100 runs.
- Im all R12's at the moment i need all R13's... whats that 10mil / 1300 runs?
Oh yea darn you can only do 2 per day on that char to get rewards. Sometimes you just have to sit back, re-evaluate and go ... daaaammmnnn