But as a debuff wouldn't it just get its effectiveness diminished too much in endgame groups? I think SW would be better off with more/mostly buffs, we have quite a few debuffs already.
I agree that a buff would be better, maybe ~10% extra damage for group. If not maybe 20% damage for SW itself. Just thinking of what could potentially be made reality, so trying to limit the buffs to not be overpowering.
I agree that a buff would be better, maybe ~10% extra damage for group. If not maybe 20% damage for SW itself. Just thinking of what could potentially be made reality, so trying to limit the buffs to not be overpowering.
Actually the new way debuffs work means that you can get away with that extra 10%, though as far as I know Warlock's Curse is already a sort of indirect buff from the way it works. I don't think it actually work likes a debuff since it was known to ignore the old debuff cap, and it's also unique for being one of the few things that can affect the Soul Puppet. It's possible it just has its own unique code.
As I've already mentioned Deadly Curse is closely tied to several things so there could be some interesting interactions there if the skill is improved. Deadly Curse has a unique interaction with effects/feats like Relentless Curse, for example, which itself can cause Lesser Curse to crit (which stacks with the normal version and rare "red" version) and Parting Blasphemy, which can re-proc certain effects like Magistrate's Patience on a crit after your own Deadly Curse procs it. It seems to be a tricky feature to improve outside of just boosting damage done. It might be easier to just add extra effects as an off-hand feature (ie, a straight damage buff just by slotting it).
Personally, I think that since Deadly Curse seems obviously designed for Warlock's Curse users/spammers it should also reward the Curse Consume mechanic on top of buffing other curses.
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But as a debuff wouldn't it just get its effectiveness diminished too much in endgame groups? I think SW would be better off with more/mostly buffs, we have quite a few debuffs already.
I agree that a buff would be better, maybe ~10% extra damage for group. If not maybe 20% damage for SW itself. Just thinking of what could potentially be made reality, so trying to limit the buffs to not be overpowering.
@pyrosorcerer given how other classes outperform SW as leader and striker by quite a bit, I believe it would be reasonable to make it an extra 20% for both teammates and the warlock, this would make the class more desirable in endgame content and such a buff would be available to both paragons and all specs.
Oh wait, while we are at it, why not simply making that effect come from the curse itself regardless of what passive powers are slotted? Now that would be a good tab curse, don't you think? As for Deadly Curse, what about reworking it the damage bonus from Warlock's Curse is increased by x%? Increasimg damage against cursed targets to 30% - 40% (up from 20%) would be sweet. Cursing takes quite a bit of time (in which other classes may be attacking already).
So how goes "inventing" something? Some suggestions have been proposed while I where absent. But not much... Start to think that you guys lacking creativity...
Anyways. You all wanting improvements.
As I wrote.. All Consuming Curse need revise.. Instead: Your Critical Strike now has a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse. Change to: ACC - by power usage ~40% chance to apply lesser. Note: this class feature count only powers initial hit. So it would count in similar manners DoT mechanic as Burst. As example, with warlock bargain or hadar grasp - This class feature would count only first tick.
Outcome: Well it's obvious improvements. Lesser curse = proc Creeping death(fury case). Combined with heroic feat: Scornful Curse: >Increases the damage dealt by Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse 10/20/30%.
Next: I would suggest that Infernal wrath (fury) feat would be revised. Current: Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less Damage Resistance.
Revised: increase dealt damage toward Lesser curse affected targets 2/4/6/8/10% Note: effect not shared among group, this is furylock only/
Templock: Soul Break: add extra: Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less Damage Resistance. Note: as you can see I just moved infernal wrath feat to templock, this would boost up groups damage.
As for Deadly Curse class feature: well I would say this class feature should work like Deadly Curse: Your Warlock's Curse deals damage when applied to targets not already affected by your Warlock's Curse. Also increase lesser curse time duration by 1/2/3/4/5s.
Combo with above mentioned changes, would grant increase toward any build, either burst powers or DoT. Because even if Fury Sb would spam SS, he would proc Lesser curse, and with Deadly curse = increased Lesser curse time duration = more Creeping Death stacks would be build = more dealt damage... Combo with Scornful Curse Lesser curse would deal more damage itself...
p.s this is just small suggestion how even small change can lift up warlocks performance ....
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I agree that a buff would be better, maybe ~10% extra damage for group. If not maybe 20% damage for SW itself. Just thinking of what could potentially be made reality, so trying to limit the buffs to not be overpowering.
Actually the new way debuffs work means that you can get away with that extra 10%, though as far as I know Warlock's Curse is already a sort of indirect buff from the way it works. I don't think it actually work likes a debuff since it was known to ignore the old debuff cap, and it's also unique for being one of the few things that can affect the Soul Puppet. It's possible it just has its own unique code.
WC is a simple 20% dps buff towards all your applied damage (all except poor designed weapon prcs like CP etc...)
As I've already mentioned Deadly Curse is closely tied to several things so there could be some interesting interactions there if the skill is improved. Deadly Curse has a unique interaction with effects/feats like Relentless Curse, for example, which itself can cause Lesser Curse to crit (which stacks with the normal version and rare "red" version) and Parting Blasphemy, which can re-proc certain effects like Magistrate's Patience on a crit after your own Deadly Curse procs it. It seems to be a tricky feature to improve outside of just boosting damage done. It might be easier to just add extra effects as an off-hand feature (ie, a straight damage buff just by slotting it).
Personally, I think that since Deadly Curse seems obviously designed for Warlock's Curse users/spammers it should also reward the Curse Consume mechanic on top of buffing other curses.
Curse consume = damage loss WC consumed by SS or HG or Wraith Shadow or VE only leeds to a proc of Lesser Curse that deals low dps and by that you lose 20% damage on that target at once, in case you do not reapply immidiately WC. (WC-HG-WC) As I said all time, we need simple and fast applications of our curses to improve the class and amke it fun, not a system like applying and removing curse from wich the following is worse than the prior curse. This WC-SS-WC and WC-HG-WC nonsense has to end honestly. Curse Consume is a minus-dps feature in most aspects, you have to buff that LC procs by an incredible ammount to benefit in any way from relentless curse, wich procs this tiny LC, instead of your follow up Killing flame deals 1 mio, instead of 1,2 mio and your running dots drop immidiately for the factor x0,8, in case you do not or miss to reapply WC fast enough due to that sloppy mechanic.
Parting blasphemy: Atm you only remove curses by very few powers, and by that you nerf your dps the moment you remove WC. As far as I know there is no easy and working mechanic to apply and consume LC to make that weapon damage proc at any considerable ammount, only proc is achieved by removing WC= removing one of your best buffs So why not make Parting Blasphemy a curse synergy effect, wich is a far far far better benefit for most build, because you apply LC all time from ACC from and from feats like Burnin puppet, if you want vengefull curse (needs buff towards 50% to build arroud.) Barting Blasphemy: you deal 20/40/60/80 weapon damage from a curse synergy effect. Using Burning puppet or vengefull curse (needs improvements) or ACC, if it would work also with non-crit builds like Bloody mentioned, now leads to a WE proc by curse synergy effects from several powers, without punishing yourself by killing your best selfbuff. Relentless curse, same problem. Once it was an ok feature, killing a WC´d target you spread LC immidiately 100% towards your mob group... now we have to remove our 20% buff to get LC running ???? nope that´s minus dps , clumsy , slow and unhandy, unneded. We want to be fast in dps and fast in applying dot, right? Relentless curse should be a synergy like applying LC in a 15`area arround WC at once, wich could work nicely with Parting Blasphemy as a Synergy effect by a follow up from Firy Blast. If you run deadly curse on top liek a aoe buff spreading WC´s buff towards mobs, this could even get better. Deadly curse as an aoe feature, Flames of emporement as our single target laodout, or running both at once skipping ACC, because you now have options to apply LC far better because you spend 5 points into relentless curse etc.
Well guys regarding tab, its nice that it does give some damage bonus when you mark 3 targets, sadly there are not always 3 targets to mark, so we don't always have this 30% damage buff but 10% and the tabmark can disappear, be consumed etc.
What I would really like to have under tab would be to place random condition/debuff on the opponent such as fear (the new one, not courage breaker), slow, daze, immobilise, prone, the charm-love like yuanti, or some other debuff. And have this utility moved towards capstones - templock to heal and buff with its curse, Fury to boosts the damage (+x% dmg boost DoT like Deadly Curse), Damnation to augment this playstyle through the Soul Puppet like more sustain and dps when the puppet is around, pet cause terror or other random debuffs/buffs on target, perhaps some more synergy between the puppet and the puppet master. For Puppet master lacks the brutal bonds between him and the caster, some skills to recover HP or stamina or even boost damage by consuming/sacrificing Soul Puppets life would be some really cool thing imho. Remember before all nerfs hit, Damnlocks were quite popular especially for lower geared players and was perfect gap closer between high til Furies DPS and lowbies.
WC is allways 20% dps increase to most power/dots not 10% , I think it allways was 20% even before rework ? Giving a capstone more meaning sounds nice.
As I wrote.. All Consuming Curse need revise.. Instead: Your Critical Strike now has a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse. Change to: ACC - by power usage ~40% chance to apply lesser. Note: this class feature count only powers initial hit. So it would count in similar manners DoT mechanic as Burst. As example, with warlock bargain or hadar grasp - This class feature would count only first tick.
Outcome: Well it's obvious improvements. Lesser curse = proc Creeping death(fury case). Combined with heroic feat: Scornful Curse: >Increases the damage dealt by Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse 10/20/30%.
Next: I would suggest that Infernal wrath (fury) feat would be revised. Current: Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less Damage Resistance.
Revised: increase dealt damage toward Lesser curse affected targets 2/4/6/8/10% Note: effect not shared among group, this is furylock only/
Templock: Soul Break: add extra: Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less Damage Resistance. Note: as you can see I just moved infernal wrath feat to templock, this would boost up groups damage.
As for Deadly Curse class feature: well I would say this class feature should work like Deadly Curse: Your Warlock's Curse deals damage when applied to targets not already affected by your Warlock's Curse. Also increase lesser curse time duration by 1/2/3/4/5s.
Combo with above mentioned changes, would grant increase toward any build, either burst powers or DoT. Because even if Fury Sb would spam SS, he would proc Lesser curse, and with Deadly curse = increased Lesser curse time duration = more Creeping Death stacks would be build = more dealt damage... Combo with Scornful Curse Lesser curse would deal more damage itself...
Consens im near all aspects, especially about ACC procing prom powers, that way you can go for a support/high power build in case Dark revelry would be a considerable powerbuff from your basepower. Except deadly curse.. I think it´s ment to be an aoe effect, but like it´s now it is a pretty low dps incerease towards mobs. If deadly curse was an aoe buff towards your damage vs mobs it would be a significant boost for any aoe effects, a must have for aoe setup maybe, but we need someting to work with. At Bossencounter you switch back to FoE anyway. Like that you also can skip ACC and run FoE + Deadly Curse vs mobs in case you go for relentlesscurse 5/5 (I suggested to inflict LC arround WC´d mobs..not perfect but an improvement). More build diversity at least. We really lack desperately in aoe. That way you can cast TC (maybe as a Dot with a 400% weaponproc) that is damagelinked for 30%. If now mobs are allready inflicted with deadly curse by simply spamming WC (+20% damage, like WC itself) and Lesser curse procs from powers (ACC) or from feats like relentless curse (5/5) you get a +5% DR-debuff (as temptree) or +10% dps (as fury) on top. Maybe empowered by scornfull curse and a curse synergy from follow up power (Firy Blast) it would be a significant improvement I think. Warlocks Curse would be a buff towards damage vs surrounding mobs like 20%, +5% group or 10% self, additive LC procs with an up to 80% damage increase for thtat dot (ACC+Scornfull Curse). An this only by applying WC once.
I simply added that towards the list on page 12.
Post edited by schietindebux on
0
pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Suggestion: Make "Warding Curse" passive reduce enemy damage by 20% against all allies, but only 10% against the SW.
This way it would be a smart way of mitigating damage for teammates, but not being very overpowering in for example PvP. SW is not a tank, so having an entire feature only reducing damage towards the SW themselves is useless, but a decent team mitigation would be beneficial. Also making SW focus around reducing enemy damage, like other powers does, is a nice addition to other classes focusing on increasing allies defenses.
Suggestion: Make "Warding Curse" passive reduce enemy damage by 20% against all allies, but only 10% against the SW.
This way it would be a smart way of mitigating damage for teammates, but not being very overpowering in for example PvP. SW is not a tank, so having an entire feature only reducing damage towards the SW themselves is useless, but a decent team mitigation would be beneficial. Also making SW focus around reducing enemy damage, like other powers does, is a nice addition to other classes focusing on increasing allies defenses.
good point, to pick up that mitigation thing. 20% sounds huge for a classfeature, but it has to be that way if it should be from any interest to get attention.
Looking at my DC´s tools.. I can buff any group using HG+AS+DG+Foresight etc far above DR cap with ease.
I started a Pally and only can say so far: 20% DR to allies from Sanctuary, Aura of protection 12,5% DR to allies, Shield of faith 30% less damage to allies, devine protector -60% damage towards allies, circle of power 25% DR, all together, great tools and nothing else needed. OP all in all: great damage, great protector, easymode tanking by running tons of temp HP, thread is selfgenerated. Fun tbh. Compared with my GF only looking at tanking option, simply lol.
@schietindebux, My proposal with deadly curse + acc = OK dps within aoe.. Firstly ACC would proc Lesser curse. Which proc Creeping Death. < Deadly curse increase lesser curse time duration = your proc creeping death longer = more dps for longer time. On top, lesser curse is not regular curse, thats mean you can apply them as many you want. To say so, if you are in fight, casting Arm of hadar, fiery botlt, even Eldritch Blast which third hit is AoE.
My whole idea is to make lesser curse mainstream. And curse itself more optional, using it only against selective/special foes.
All it's because, if we keep high dps for curse affected only. We keep SW bad in non curse affected ones.. This problem where since mod 4.
Anyways.. .I just dropped that idea just as example, so you could try use it for future suggestions..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Curse consume = damage loss WC consumed by SS or HG or Wraith Shadow or VE only leeds to a proc of Lesser Curse that deals low dps and by that you lose 20% damage on that target at once, in case you do not reapply immidiately WC. (WC-HG-WC) As I said all time, we need simple and fast applications of our curses to improve the class and amke it fun, not a system like applying and removing curse from wich the following is worse than the prior curse. This WC-SS-WC and WC-HG-WC nonsense has to end honestly. Curse Consume is a minus-dps feature in most aspects, you have to buff that LC procs by an incredible ammount to benefit in any way from relentless curse, wich procs this tiny LC, instead of your follow up Killing flame deals 1 mio, instead of 1,2 mio and your running dots drop immidiately for the factor x0,8, in case you do not or miss to reapply WC fast enough due to that sloppy mechanic.
Parting blasphemy: Atm you only remove curses by very few powers, and by that you nerf your dps the moment you remove WC. As far as I know there is no easy and working mechanic to apply and consume LC to make that weapon damage proc at any considerable ammount, only proc is achieved by removing WC= removing one of your best buffs So why not make Parting Blasphemy a curse synergy effect, wich is a far far far better benefit for most build, because you apply LC all time from ACC from and from feats like Burnin puppet, if you want vengefull curse (needs buff towards 50% to build arroud.) Barting Blasphemy: you deal 20/40/60/80 weapon damage from a curse synergy effect. Using Burning puppet or vengefull curse (needs improvements) or ACC, if it would work also with non-crit builds like Bloody mentioned, now leads to a WE proc by curse synergy effects from several powers, without punishing yourself by killing your best selfbuff. Relentless curse, same problem. Once it was an ok feature, killing a WC´d target you spread LC immidiately 100% towards your mob group... now we have to remove our 20% buff to get LC running ???? nope that´s minus dps , clumsy , slow and unhandy, unneded. We want to be fast in dps and fast in applying dot, right? Relentless curse should be a synergy like applying LC in a 15`area arround WC at once, wich could work nicely with Parting Blasphemy as a Synergy effect by a follow up from Firy Blast. If you run deadly curse on top liek a aoe buff spreading WC´s buff towards mobs, this could even get better. Deadly curse as an aoe feature, Flames of emporement as our single target laodout, or running both at once skipping ACC, because you now have options to apply LC far better because you spend 5 points into relentless curse etc.
You don't get it. It's basically a damage loss now, but it was once a very useful mechanic that gave Warlock Powers unique effects, like significantly boosting the DPS of Soul Scorch, giving powers like Harrowstorm a CC effect, and making powers like Fiery Bolt burstier. Lesser Curse was also much more powerful, and it's SUPPOSED to be a more relevant DPS source (arguably not a major source, but it was supposed to actually matter at least) because it's a core SW mechanic, or do you really think that an extra ~8k total damage DoT from the current Lesser Curse is relevant in the current meta? These are mechanics that should be fixed, not thrown away. The changes you want would just make the warlock another CW, a caster which automatically applies core mechanic-buffs/debuffs just by attacking, which would be pointless because we already have an actual CW class and class reroll tokens, not to mention the fact that the actual CW also happens to be very good at what it does. Ideally what should happen is that curses and related mechanics should simply be more rewarding.
Parting Blasphemy actually procs often in end-game dungeons, because Lesser Curse tends to run its course, and low tier dungeons, where you can basically just spam-curse stuff and they die. The point of Parting Blasphemy is that it procs effects like Magistrate's Patience since it can also crit. Soulbinders obviously proc it very often, as well as SWs who use powers like HG and WS. A buff to Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which everybody agrees should happen, is going to affect this feat because, as I keep saying, this feat is closely tied to those powers. It's the same for Relentless Curse. Your proposed changes, on top of the changes already being proposed by most people for Deadly Curse/Lesser Curse, would break these feats if they're supposed to remain as mere T1 feats, which is why myself and some others are advocating caution when proposing buffs to them.
As for Lesser Curse itself, since people seem to mostly just agree that it needs a damage boost, I think the damage should simply scale - like it would always do at least 1% of the target's max HP OR 2% of the SW's max HP as damage per tick, whichever is higher (ignoring temp HP), with a max damage of 5% of the SW's max HP per tick. That should make it relevant again in the current meta. Atm it seems to only scale off weapon damage (ie, outdated) and only benefits from debuffs.
As for SWs excelling at dealing damage to cursed targets, this is practically all that remains of the SW's original identity as a striker that specializes in dealing massive damage to a small amount of targets. Although it had AoE options the SW could never really replace the CW - you'd need a complete rebalance of SW powers for that to happen - and while it could give the TR a run for its money it simply didn't have the TR's survivability and (in the case of Executioner) burst. It made up for this by having better multi-target options, so in group content the SW's modus operandi was selecting and then killing small number of (usually key/tanky) targets very quickly at a time. Considering that it remained competent despite being introduced at a point when the "new" Destroyer GWF was freshly OP (and was literally destroying everything/everyone) even as CWs were doing dungeon-wide AoE pulls, there's obviously room for such an identity among Neverwinter's striker classes. Even now the space should still be there, I don't know why SWs don't just reclaim it. Why compete for something that other classes already do well?
Post edited by tyrtallow on
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You don't get it. It's basically a damage loss now, but it was once a very useful mechanic that gave Warlock Powers unique effects, like significantly boosting the DPS of Soul Scorch, giving powers like Harrowstorm a CC effect, and making powers like Fiery Bolt burstier. Lesser Curse was also much more powerful, and it's SUPPOSED to be a more relevant DPS source (arguably not a major source, but it was supposed to actually matter at least) because it's a core SW mechanic, or do you really think that an extra ~8k total damage DoT from the current Lesser Curse is relevant in the current meta? These are mechanics that should be fixed, not thrown away. The changes you want would just make the warlock another CW, a caster which automatically applies core mechanic-buffs/debuffs just by attacking, which would be pointless because we already have an actual CW class and class reroll tokens, not to mention the fact that the actual CW also happens to be very good at what it does. Ideally what should happen is that curses and related mechanics should simply be more rewarding.
Parting Blasphemy actually procs often in end-game dungeons, because Lesser Curse tends to run its course, and low tier dungeons, where you can basically just spam-curse stuff and they die. The point of Parting Blasphemy is that it procs effects like Magistrate's Patience since it can also crit. Soulbinders obviously proc it very often, as well as SWs who use powers like HG and WS. A buff to Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which everybody agrees should happen, is going to affect this feat because, as I keep saying, this feat is closely tied to those powers. It's the same for Relentless Curse. Your proposed changes, on top of the changes already being proposed by most people for Deadly Curse/Lesser Curse, would break these feats if they're supposed to remain as mere T1 feats.
As for Lesser Curse itself, since people seem to mostly just agree that it needs a damage boost, I think the damage should simply scale - like it would always do at least 1% of the target's max HP OR 2% of the SW's max HP as damage per tick, whichever is higher (ignoring temp HP), with a max damage of 5% of the SW's max HP per tick. That should make it relevant again in the current meta. Atm it seems to only scale off weapon damage (ie, outdated) and only benefits from debuffs.
As for SWs excelling at dealing damage to cursed targets, this is practically all that remains of the SW's original identity as a striker that specializes in dealing massive damage to a small amount of targets. Although it had AoE options the SW could never really replace the CW - you'd need a complete rebalance of SW powers for that to happen - and while it could give the TR a run for its money it simply didn't have the TR's survivability and (in the case of Executioner) burst. It made up for this by having better multi-target options, so in group content the SW's modus operandi was selecting and then killing small number of (usually key) targets very quickly at a time. Considering that it remained competent despite being introduced at a point when the Destroyer GWF was freshly OP (and was literally destroying everything/everyone) even as CWs were doing dungeon-wide AoE pulls, there's obviously room for such an identity among Neverwinter's striker classes. Even now the space should still be there, I don't know why SWs don't just reclaim it. Why compete for something that other classes already do well?
Class reroll tokens? Where do I get that? I've got 2 race reroll tokens which for whatever reason don't show up in character screen anymore
I like that damage based on your hp for lesser curse. Based on enemy hp might turn out buggy like that old fabled set total opness.
The limitations on its damage should be based on your HP, but after that there's no reason why it shouldn't scale with enemy HP. It's a small trick the devs are starting to use too, actually, if you look at the new Chult items.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
You don't get it. It's basically a damage loss now, but it was once a very useful mechanic that gave Warlock Powers unique effects, like significantly boosting the DPS of Soul Scorch, giving powers like Harrowstorm a CC effect, and making powers like Fiery Bolt burstier. Lesser Curse was also much more powerful, and it's SUPPOSED to be a more relevant DPS source (arguably not a major source, but it was supposed to actually matter at least) because it's a core SW mechanic, or do you really think that an extra ~8k total damage DoT from the current Lesser Curse is relevant in the current meta? These are mechanics that should be fixed, not thrown away. The changes you want would just make the warlock another CW, a caster which automatically applies core mechanic-buffs/debuffs just by attacking, which would be pointless because we already have an actual CW class and class reroll tokens, not to mention the fact that the actual CW also happens to be very good at what it does. Ideally what should happen is that curses and related mechanics should simply be more rewarding. Parting Blasphemy actually procs often in end-game dungeons, because Lesser Curse tends to run its course, and low tier dungeons, where you can basically just spam-curse stuff and they die. The point of Parting Blasphemy is that it procs effects like Magistrate's Patience since it can also crit. Soulbinders obviously proc it very often, as well as SWs who use powers like HG and WS. A buff to Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which everybody agrees should happen, is going to affect this feat because, as I keep saying, this feat is closely tied to those powers. It's the same for Relentless Curse. Your proposed changes, on top of the changes already being proposed by most people for Deadly Curse/Lesser Curse, would break these feats if they're supposed to remain as mere T1 feats, which is why myself and some others are advocating caution when proposing buffs to them. As for Lesser Curse itself, since people seem to mostly just agree that it needs a damage boost, I think the damage should simply scale - like it would always do at least 1% of the target's max HP OR 2% of the SW's max HP as damage per tick, whichever is higher (ignoring temp HP), with a max damage of 5% of the SW's max HP per tick. That should make it relevant again in the current meta. Atm it seems to only scale off weapon damage (ie, outdated) and only benefits from debuffs. As for SWs excelling at dealing damage to cursed targets, this is practically all that remains of the SW's original identity as a striker that specializes in dealing massive damage to a small amount of targets. Although it had AoE options the SW could never really replace the CW - you'd need a complete rebalance of SW powers for that to happen - and while it could give the TR a run for its money it simply didn't have the TR's survivability and (in the case of Executioner) burst. It made up for this by having better multi-target options, so in group content the SW's modus operandi was selecting and then killing small number of (usually key/tanky) targets very quickly at a time. Considering that it remained competent despite being introduced at a point when the "new" Destroyer GWF was freshly OP (and was literally destroying everything/everyone) even as CWs were doing dungeon-wide AoE pulls, there's obviously room for such an identity among Neverwinter's striker classes. Even now the space should still be there, I don't know why SWs don't just reclaim it. Why compete for something that other classes already do well?
AT first Curse Consume never was a fullfilling mechanic. In most aspects it was annyoing due to it´s core problem WC.. Those prones and cc´s you get by reapplyig WC are nice but are from near no interest in PVE atm, are they? Tab-SS-Tab-SS- only to get that dot running, no way, Tab HS Tab... not working atm, and PVP is dead Tab HG Tab, the only usefull Curse Consume effect in PVP and it´s only is from interest in PVE not for the cc effect but only to get back your 20% dps and your procs running. Wraith Shadow, not used in PVP never was, and not from use in PVE, you kill your dot, onyl damn lock might use that dot, if it was not broken. The reason why Curse Consume was near deleted 2016 was the fact that noone wanted to go on like that, look up for those threads yourself. WC your targets and kill your buff at once, it is contradictious as long as Curse Consume kill your buffs. Lesser Curse once powerfull ? Soul Scorch allways worked with WC not with LC as far as I remember, LC did not proc that dot, same as TC never did.
Relentless curse speaks for itself: "When your Warlock's Curse is removed from a target, that target has a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to be afflicted with a Lesser Curse. " Nothing else to say, this feat is simply garbage. https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Scourge_Warlock It is an insult and noone should put a point in that pittyfull feat. I remove my best buff (Warlocks Curse) to get that one Lesser Curse proc? lol, I think at that point we agree, at least I hope so in your case?
Parting Blasphemy... I really don´t know where to begin to make YOU understand. You claim to run 7 warlocks and do a lot of theorycrafting but miss the most important point, writing walls of text. This feat was bad since ever, after rework it´s even worse. It was from use with a bug feated (1/5) for endless staminagain combined with eldritch momentum in PVP. Parting Blasphemy dealt damage towards you proccing eldritch and was fixed 21.09.2016 "the big rework". Beyond that it simply was bad, allways, concernig dps and procs. Maybe it was from use combined with deadly curse.Soulbinder (near noone plays that path , except you run beside a HB) used to run ACC+ xy so DC is a choice like BT and D2D. I really would like to see any considerable procrate in enddungeons, without gimping your build by using powers noone uses as Hellbringer. Soulbinder might be the only Paragon to use that feat, even doing so it is and ALLWAYS was underwhelmingly bad.
I show you one log from Preview running solo Kessel: 91 procs through all that mobs Thats 91 procs of weapon damage fro a hole run. I assure you that actual mobs in Tong or FBI stay even longer alive than in my solorun. The overall damage is not to talk off, so garbage, nothing else, like it allways was. It´s worse than Critical Promise, and it`s worse than Killing Curse, ahrd to tell wich one get´s the "Crappy Crown" ... all of them 0% 0% 0% Look at Elven Ferocity.. those Boons are even better than a 5/5 feat like PB, CP and KC !!! 15 feat points for zero dps, lol.
And about Bossencounter we do not need to run PB for a singel target , do we? Here the procs of single target using WB (curse), PoP, KF, ACC: 19 times, dps garbage as it allways was. https://i.imgur.com/w0Txfbk.png
And here the utility of Parting Blasphemy on a single target, even using Vampires Embrance and Hadar Grasp "Tab-power-Tab" all time to not miss one PB proc: 30 times, dps garbage as usually.. but no it surpassed Killing Curse but beaten by Critical Promise, hey... destroying my dps by using worse powers to proc a crappy feat. https://i.imgur.com/DEbQzKb.png
Here a test with magistrats patience and Parting Blasphemy. Anyway talking of a synergy between a bad insignia boni and an underwhelimg feat is wasted. Compared to insigniaboni like Protectors Camradie, Artificers persuation, Assassins Covenant, Shepards Devotion, Galdiators Guile... MP is more like a bad choice imo damage: MB 0%, PB 1%, Procrate for PB-Soulbinder 38 times, you have to buff that feat A LOT to make it a considerable choice. https://i.imgur.com/qK6hQ7w.png
Telling everyone that feat was or is from any use is nonsense, no it´s not and nerver was from bigger interst in any build so far, speaking of existing meta like Crit builds. The feat has to be changed in any way to make it work, maybe for both paragons, but that will not work in case we keep it as is and was for the last 4 years of a crappy feat. And now I run SB-Fury using Deadly Curse+ ACC + PB + Magisters Patience in Kessel and I assure you it´s ahard task without any lifesteal adn without using Borrowed time, brb.
The only considerable run to speak of any use from those feats, PB+MC+ACC+DC. It is one build out of one paragon to give them any meaning, not to talk of the fact that the overall dps from all those 2 feats, one insignia and a classfeature are 4% in a hole. It won´t work with HB, since HB does not skip FoE or NPNM for DC and it will not work with any build below a considerable critrate, since ACC does´not work and MP also not. Beside that DC is a pretty poor damageincrease overall. Yor need masses of mobs and even though it won´t be a big win. Btw. the only reason why Critcal Promise and MP procced more often that run, is fact that I run BoVA (to compensate my missing LS), wich procs lot´s of stuff all time (it´s a multiproccer for WE, CP, MP). Normally BoVa is not the first pick, not for a dps spec, except you want to be slowed down and drop behind the Pally. @tyrtallow And one last, last comment.. i could not find any prove or setup for Parting Blasphemy proccing Magistrate Patience? Deadly curse procs it, yes, BoVa procs it on every tick for high ammounts, but not PB, nope guess you are wrong. Try to understand that most player with crit builds never found anything usefull about PB, CP, relentless curse etc., nothing that improves the dps or performacne significant. Just go through all those builds and post and comments over the last 4 years and show me one comment that spoke of those feats in a positive way being an improvement... there is none, do not waste your time. Btw. who runs Wraith Shadow as a dps setup? anyone?
Again you do not see the point. The idea is that Parting Blasphemy and Relentless Curse are closely tied to curses like Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which is why buffing these skills can also affect these feats. NO ONE said they were fine as is, just that improvements on them are going to have indirect consequences ESPECIALLY since everyone seems to agree that Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse need to be improved. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
And then you go on to bash Soulbinder, a path that badly needs improvement.
"Soulbinder (near noone plays that path , except you run beside a HB)"
Yeah, because who cares about a path that isn't your character's right? That's NOT what we're here for, right - making SWs better? YOU HAMSTER.
And then you go on to create a little experiment BASED ON THE CURRENT BROKEN SW META, WHICH EVERYONE HERE IS TRYING TO IMPROVE, and try to show me numbers of a run -without HAMSTER Curse Consume- as if to somehow trying prove that Parting Blasphemy is underperforming (even though it obviously already SHOULD - hell it's HAMSTER T1 feat) and making it sound like it's supposed to be able to save the SW class single-handedly on its own. Sure, I could also show you a run where I'm using Fury WITHOUT the Soul Puppet and point out how ridiculously bad the Soul Puppet is after, which would be true but equally as pointless. I could then ask for a buff to the Soul Puppet based on something like the broken TR Shadow of Demise feat because it doesn't matter where I get my standards, right? Because it doesn't matter what every other capstone does, what only matters are the capstones that are relevant to DPS? Everything else is trash and useless, right? We should really just get rid of everything else that no one uses - just lump them all up and throw them away - because, who cares?
A lot of wasted effort to prove nothing, but you only have yourself to blame for thinking that you had something to prove in the first place.
As for Parting Blasphmeny and Magistrate's Patience, my own testing confirms that they no longer work together. It's a recent change because I've been pointing out since mod10 that it can create a damage recursion with Magistrate's Patience. Apparently the devs notice things like these.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Again you do not see the point. The idea is that Parting Blasphemy and Relentless Curse are closely tied to curses like Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which is why buffing these skills can also affect these feats. NO ONE said they were fine as is, just that improvements on them are going to have indirect consequences ESPECIALLY since everyone seems to agree that Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse need to be improved. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
And then you go on to bash Soulbinder, a path that badly needs improvement.
"Soulbinder (near noone plays that path , except you run beside a HB)"
Yeah, because who cares about a path that isn't your character's right? That's NOT what we're here for, right - making SWs better? YOU HAMSTER.
And then you go on to create a little experiment BASED ON THE CURRENT BROKEN SW META, WHICH EVERYONE HERE IS TRYING TO IMPROVE, and try to show me numbers of a run -without HAMSTER Curse Consume- as if to somehow trying prove that Parting Blasphemy is underperforming (even though it obviously already SHOULD - hell it's HAMSTER T1 feat) and making it sound like it's supposed to be able to save the SW class single-handedly on its own. Sure, I could also show you a run where I'm using Fury WITHOUT the Soul Puppet and point out how ridiculously bad the Soul Puppet is after, which would be true but equally as pointless. I could then ask for a buff to the Soul Puppet based on something like the broken TR Shadow of Demise feat because it doesn't matter where I get my standards, right? Because it doesn't matter what every other capstone does, what only matters are the capstones that are relevant to DPS? Everything else is trash and useless, right? We should really just get rid of everything else that no one uses - just lump them all up and throw them away - because, who cares?
A lot of wasted effort to prove nothing, but you only have yourself to blame for thinking that you had something to prove in the first place.
As for Parting Blasphmeny and Magistrate's Patience, my own testing confirms that they no longer work together. It's a recent change because I've been pointing out since mod10 that it can create a damage recursion with Magistrate's Patience. Apparently the devs notice things like these.
You are simply a waste off time tbh. I made my point showing you how underwhelming thes feats are, and they were not one 1% better before mod 10. I run SB most of the time during last years, beside damnation. The fact that noone plays SB, is the fact that it does not work as it should (pure striker), it´s a simple fact, no bashing. Everyone runs HB atm a simple fact everyone knows. Noone ever could get a considerable ammount of damage out of PB and RC feats since the beginning of that class, you just seem to now nothing about those last years and never read those threads nor watched those shown act logs, only pretending. You are wrong in so manny ways, like synergy of PB proccing your insignia wich is wrong, it doesn´t. You circle arround a feature and a classmechanic wich is near dead, talking of the fact, that Curse consume is only used by one power effectively atm, Soul Scorch, that´s all. By that you praise the fact that RC leads LC to crit (for a pityfull ammount) wich might be more a bug than an intended or interesting synergy, since warlock = bugs I am also 100% sure you did not run that class consistently in the last years, that´s impossible , following your writings. Btw you are free to show act logs from enddungeons using Parting Blasphemy, if you really think it procs in a considerable ammount at endcontent and leads to any kind of benefit or synergy like that. I want to get rid of some crappy feats, improve the performance and not hang arround another 4 years, even if it´s a T1 feature with an underwhelming effect. Heading towards Mod 13: "Hmm, what do I pick pest or cholera?"
Wow he still doesn't get it. Someone else needs to take this please, I've had enough thinly veined dirty politicking for one day. Gosh, he's almost like one of those villain stereotypes in cartoons who thinks no one else can hear him talk about his evil plans.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
edited November 2017
I would just like to point out how pointless your little argument here is, @schietindebux@tyrtallow .
Again you do not see the point. The idea is that Parting Blasphemy and Relentless Curse are closely tied to curses like Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which is why buffing these skills can also affect these feats. NO ONE said they were fine as is, just that improvements on them are going to have indirect consequences ESPECIALLY since everyone seems to agree that Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse need to be improved. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
And then you go on to bash Soulbinder, a path that badly needs improvement.
"Soulbinder (near noone plays that path , except you run beside a HB)"
Yeah, because who cares about a path that isn't your character's right? That's NOT what we're here for, right - making SWs better? YOU HAMSTER.
And then you go on to create a little experiment BASED ON THE CURRENT BROKEN SW META, WHICH EVERYONE HERE IS TRYING TO IMPROVE, and try to show me numbers of a run -without HAMSTER Curse Consume- as if to somehow trying prove that Parting Blasphemy is underperforming (even though it obviously already SHOULD - hell it's HAMSTER T1 feat) and making it sound like it's supposed to be able to save the SW class single-handedly on its own. Sure, I could also show you a run where I'm using Fury WITHOUT the Soul Puppet and point out how ridiculously bad the Soul Puppet is after, which would be true but equally as pointless. I could then ask for a buff to the Soul Puppet based on something like the broken TR Shadow of Demise feat because it doesn't matter where I get my standards, right? Because it doesn't matter what every other capstone does, what only matters are the capstones that are relevant to DPS? Everything else is trash and useless, right? We should really just get rid of everything else that no one uses - just lump them all up and throw them away - because, who cares?
A lot of wasted effort to prove nothing, but you only have yourself to blame for thinking that you had something to prove in the first place.
As for Parting Blasphmeny and Magistrate's Patience, my own testing confirms that they no longer work together. It's a recent change because I've been pointing out since mod10 that it can create a damage recursion with Magistrate's Patience. Apparently the devs notice things like these.
You are simply a waste off time tbh. I made my point showing you how underwhelming thes feats are, and they were not one 1% better before mod 10. I run SB most of the time during last years, beside damnation. The fact that noone plays SB, is the fact that it does not work as it should (pure striker), it´s a simple fact, no bashing. Everyone runs HB atm a simple fact everyone knows. Noone ever could get a considerable ammount of damage out of PB and RC feats since the beginning of that class, you just seem to now nothing about those last years and never read those threads nor watched those shown act logs, only pretending. You are wrong in so manny ways, like synergy of PB proccing your insignia wich is wrong, it doesn´t. You circle arround a feature and a classmechanic wich is near dead, talking of the fact, that Curse consume is only used by one power effectively atm, Soul Scorch, that´s all. By that you praise the fact that RC leads LC to crit (for a pityfull ammount) wich might be more a bug than an intended or interesting synergy, since warlock = bugs I am also 100% sure you did not run that class consistently in the last years, that´s impossible , following your writings. Btw you are free to show act logs from enddungeons using Parting Blasphemy, if you really think it procs in a considerable ammount at endcontent and leads to any kind of benefit or synergy like that. I want to get rid of some crappy feats, improve the performance and not hang arround another 4 years, even if it´s a T1 feature with an underwhelming effect. Heading towards Mod 13: "Hmm, what do I pick pest or cholera?"
These Feats are HAMSTER now but we should work on improving them instead of getting rid of them cause this makes Warlock interesting. (atleast thats how i understood it)
Edit: i always play SB on bosses^^ so its not noone
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Yes, unneeded to argue maybe, one last question. Tell me in wich scenario you deal a considerable damage by removing or running off curses, if those mobs die in the blink of an eye and you lost your tools to consume curses? I only know one scenario. You deal near no damage and those mobs live forever.
"When a Curse is removed from a target, deal 10/20/30/40/50% of your weapon damage to that target. "
If this class should deal more aoe (not sure if everyone agrees about that) you need at least feats or classfeature to instant deal more dps towards mobs. A classfeature like Deadly Curse could work as debuff or damagebuff on top, like a 10-20% towards mobs not affected by WC. The DOT itself is too weak, except you buff it significant.
And no Bloody I do not want flame fight, but I also do not want to talk about Pizza
And @tom#6998 , I also run SB at bosses, normally only if another HB is on board. If you are the only real dps it´s an option, but the moment you are two dps, it is hard to egalize the loss of 18% buff towards him and your group.
@schietindebux you mentioned curse consuming not working on lesser curse before mod10. But iirc, curse consume worked on any curse. It was the reason you could get to 5 stacks of DT on single targets if you had ACC for example proccing lesser curses to be instantly consumed. Then it was changed so that curse consume is meant only for WC and any other curse got the new curse synergy.
I agree that curse consuming isn't as rewarding as it could be, specially now that so few powers do it. The loss of the damage buff can be entirely mitigated if you immediately reapply it, but it can certainly be stressful at times. Still, if a little more rewarding, it could be a fun mechanic.
One thing I thought could make it better is an improved curse consume according to your capstone. Each capstone could have its own extra curse consume effect. Fury could make it so that curse consuming deals an AoE damage equal to one tick of all CD damage currently on the target of the consume. Damnation could make curse consume add a stack of soul investiture to the puppet (which should have the cap increased by 5), apply lesser curse to all targets around it and a debuff on the target that makes the puppet deal 15% more damage to it for 15 seconds. Temptation could be something like curse consume adds 5% party damage buff and 50% of max health temp HP for 15 seconds.
This could make curse consume more interesting and colorful. I'd also make Curse Bite a curse consume effect instead of synergy. Might make it an interesting AoE option for fury.
@schietindebux you mentioned curse consuming not working on lesser curse before mod10. But iirc, curse consume worked on any curse. It was the reason you could get to 5 stacks of DT on single targets if you had ACC for example proccing lesser curses to be instantly consumed. Then it was changed so that curse consume is meant only for WC and any other curse got the new curse synergy.
I agree that curse consuming isn't as rewarding as it could be, specially now that so few powers do it. The loss of the damage buff can be entirely mitigated if you immediately reapply it, but it can certainly be stressful at times. Still, if a little more rewarding, it could be a fun mechanic.
One thing I thought could make it better is an improved curse consume according to your capstone. Each capstone could have its own extra curse consume effect. Fury could make it so that curse consuming deals an AoE damage equal to one tick of all CD damage currently on the target of the consume. Damnation could make curse consume add a stack of soul investiture to the puppet (which should have the cap increased by 5), apply lesser curse to all targets around it and a debuff on the target that makes the puppet deal 15% more damage to it for 15 seconds. Temptation could be something like curse consume adds 5% party damage buff and 50% of max health temp HP for 15 seconds.
This could make curse consume more interesting and colorful. I'd also make Curse Bite a curse consume effect instead of synergy. Might make it an interesting AoE option for fury.
I think thats a great idea, to have curse consume activate an AOE. I also think that all fire powers like firey bolt and KF should have the same type of curse consume effect as Soul scorch whuile keeping the synergy intact, I think it only makes sense.
leader? DC - Hallowed Ground, Break the Spirit always with you. GF - Into the Fray always with you. This is the leader. SW a striker, not a leader.
SW was striker before mod 11 before nerf tyranical and damnation path after with introduction pilar of power and many powers debuff also fact the SW fury if even is easily pass in dps by GF dps DC dps and not longer more competitive with others dps class i think devs try sw leader but im not liked
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
SW has been Striker/Leader since release, no need to argue about its function there. Before mod 6 Temptation was quite popular, and seems to hopefully be more popular again. Not all SW are in for the dps only.
@schietindebux you mentioned curse consuming not working on lesser curse before mod10. But iirc, curse consume worked on any curse. It was the reason you could get to 5 stacks of DT on single targets if you had ACC for example proccing lesser curses to be instantly consumed. Then it was changed so that curse consume is meant only for WC and any other curse got the new curse synergy.
I agree that curse consuming isn't as rewarding as it could be, specially now that so few powers do it. The loss of the damage buff can be entirely mitigated if you immediately reapply it, but it can certainly be stressful at times. Still, if a little more rewarding, it could be a fun mechanic.
One thing I thought could make it better is an improved curse consume according to your capstone. Each capstone could have its own extra curse consume effect. Fury could make it so that curse consuming deals an AoE damage equal to one tick of all CD damage currently on the target of the consume. Damnation could make curse consume add a stack of soul investiture to the puppet (which should have the cap increased by 5), apply lesser curse to all targets around it and a debuff on the target that makes the puppet deal 15% more damage to it for 15 seconds. Temptation could be something like curse consume adds 5% party damage buff and 50% of max health temp HP for 15 seconds.
This could make curse consume more interesting and colorful. I'd also make Curse Bite a curse consume effect instead of synergy. Might make it an interesting AoE option for fury.
Can´t find myself what I wrote. What I ment is, that Soul Scorch never worked with LC (the dot never procced from LC) allways on WC, same as Vampric embrance, HG, HS, WS all those ones were tied to WC as far as I remember. DT, FB and i guess curse Bite did work with LC, not sure if FB also consumed WC, guess so.
But we lost those consume effects on our aoe abilities to get curse synergy. By that feats like Parting Blasphemy lost it´s existatial basic. If curse consume should be from interest you need to turn back the time and give those aoe curse consume again. By that you drop significantly in Creeping Death procs for sure. Creeeping Death before rework about 15% of overal dps, now the double. Curse consume kills LC by that CD did not proc that good as now. If anyone would remember that with Curse synergy the CD procs were much more constant and dps increased significant.
If we now go back to curse consume with aoe spells, CD will drop again. You lose a 60% dps proc (mod13 75%) for every dealt damage towards a target that lost it´s LC. You have to reapply LC with a crit (ACC) to benefit once again from that 60% DOT. To equalize that dps loss you need to buff Parting Blasphemy, to proc for 60% (75%) of dealt damage by removing that curse, beside the fact that you need to invest 5/5 into that feat.
I agree about Curse consume for WC should be rewarded, like you said. Consuming that WC with HG deals aoe/soul investiture+debuff, sounds pretty good, since that aoe hits cursed targets (LC) and procs CD by that.
Neverwinter Balance 2017 Tong 15.11.2017 23:14
35 DC 18 OP 20 GWF 12 GF 10 CW 3TR 3 Hunter 1 warlock
@balanced when will cryptic be doing a complete rework? Anything else is just putting lipstick on a pig. You should just remove the curse mechanic all together. Should auto apply with what ever powers you guys want to have apply it . Just give us a flat and easy to follow base damage that doesnt need to factor in all the different curse combos . Use the free tab button to add either a dodge or a tp. The time wasted using a curse tab is far to outdated and no longer fits into the world of striker or leader for that matter any longer. Was a cute idea at the time but that time has passed. This game has changed to much for anything other than a complete rework for the Scourge Warlock.
Comments
Just thinking of what could potentially be made reality, so trying to limit the buffs to not be overpowering.
As I've already mentioned Deadly Curse is closely tied to several things so there could be some interesting interactions there if the skill is improved. Deadly Curse has a unique interaction with effects/feats like Relentless Curse, for example, which itself can cause Lesser Curse to crit (which stacks with the normal version and rare "red" version) and Parting Blasphemy, which can re-proc certain effects like Magistrate's Patience on a crit after your own Deadly Curse procs it.
It seems to be a tricky feature to improve outside of just boosting damage done. It might be easier to just add extra effects as an off-hand feature (ie, a straight damage buff just by slotting it).
Personally, I think that since Deadly Curse seems obviously designed for Warlock's Curse users/spammers it should also reward the Curse Consume mechanic on top of buffing other curses.
Oh wait, while we are at it, why not simply making that effect come from the curse itself regardless of what passive powers are slotted? Now that would be a good tab curse, don't you think? As for Deadly Curse, what about reworking it the damage bonus from Warlock's Curse is increased by x%? Increasimg damage against cursed targets to 30% - 40% (up from 20%) would be sweet. Cursing takes quite a bit of time (in which other classes may be attacking already).
Edit:
Deleted bad idea lol.
Anyways. You all wanting improvements.
As I wrote.. All Consuming Curse need revise..
Instead: Your Critical Strike now has a 33% chance to apply Lesser Curse.
Change to: ACC - by power usage ~40% chance to apply lesser.
Note: this class feature count only powers initial hit. So it would count in similar manners DoT mechanic as Burst.
As example, with warlock bargain or hadar grasp - This class feature would count only first tick.
Outcome: Well it's obvious improvements. Lesser curse = proc Creeping death(fury case).
Combined with heroic feat: Scornful Curse: >Increases the damage dealt by Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse 10/20/30%.
Next: I would suggest that Infernal wrath (fury) feat would be revised.
Current: Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less Damage Resistance.
Revised: increase dealt damage toward Lesser curse affected targets 2/4/6/8/10%
Note: effect not shared among group, this is furylock only/
Templock: Soul Break: add extra: Your Lesser Curse also causes the target to have 1/2/3/4/5% less Damage Resistance.
Note: as you can see I just moved infernal wrath feat to templock, this would boost up groups damage.
As for Deadly Curse class feature: well I would say this class feature should work like
Deadly Curse: Your Warlock's Curse deals damage when applied to targets not already affected by your Warlock's Curse.
Also increase lesser curse time duration by 1/2/3/4/5s.
Combo with above mentioned changes, would grant increase toward any build, either burst powers or DoT. Because even if Fury Sb would spam SS, he would proc Lesser curse, and with Deadly curse = increased Lesser curse time duration = more Creeping Death stacks would be build = more dealt damage...
Combo with Scornful Curse Lesser curse would deal more damage itself...
p.s this is just small suggestion how even small change can lift up warlocks performance ....
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
WC consumed by SS or HG or Wraith Shadow or VE only leeds to a proc of Lesser Curse that deals low dps and by that you lose 20% damage on that target at once, in case you do not reapply immidiately WC. (WC-HG-WC)
As I said all time, we need simple and fast applications of our curses to improve the class and amke it fun, not a system like applying and removing curse from wich the following is worse than the prior curse.
This WC-SS-WC and WC-HG-WC nonsense has to end honestly.
Curse Consume is a minus-dps feature in most aspects, you have to buff that LC procs by an incredible ammount to benefit in any way from relentless curse, wich procs this tiny LC, instead of your follow up Killing flame deals 1 mio, instead of 1,2 mio and your running dots drop immidiately for the factor x0,8, in case you do not or miss to reapply WC fast enough due to that sloppy mechanic.
Parting blasphemy: Atm you only remove curses by very few powers, and by that you nerf your dps the moment you remove WC. As far as I know there is no easy and working mechanic to apply and consume LC to make that weapon damage proc at any considerable ammount, only proc is achieved by removing WC= removing one of your best buffs
So why not make Parting Blasphemy a curse synergy effect, wich is a far far far better benefit for most build, because you apply LC all time from ACC from and from feats like Burnin puppet, if you want vengefull curse (needs buff towards 50% to build arroud.)
Barting Blasphemy: you deal 20/40/60/80 weapon damage from a curse synergy effect. Using Burning puppet or vengefull curse (needs improvements) or ACC, if it would work also with non-crit builds like Bloody mentioned, now leads to a WE proc by curse synergy effects from several powers, without punishing yourself by killing your best selfbuff.
Relentless curse, same problem. Once it was an ok feature, killing a WC´d target you spread LC immidiately 100% towards your mob group... now we have to remove our 20% buff to get LC running ???? nope that´s minus dps , clumsy , slow and unhandy, unneded. We want to be fast in dps and fast in applying dot, right?
Relentless curse should be a synergy like applying LC in a 15`area arround WC at once, wich could work nicely with Parting Blasphemy as a Synergy effect by a follow up from Firy Blast.
If you run deadly curse on top liek a aoe buff spreading WC´s buff towards mobs, this could even get better.
Deadly curse as an aoe feature, Flames of emporement as our single target laodout, or running both at once skipping ACC, because you now have options to apply LC far better because you spend 5 points into relentless curse etc. WC is allways 20% dps increase to most power/dots not 10% , I think it allways was 20% even before rework ?
Giving a capstone more meaning sounds nice.
Consens im near all aspects, especially about ACC procing prom powers, that way you can go for a support/high power build in case Dark revelry would be a considerable powerbuff from your basepower.
Except deadly curse.. I think it´s ment to be an aoe effect, but like it´s now it is a pretty low dps incerease towards mobs.
If deadly curse was an aoe buff towards your damage vs mobs it would be a significant boost for any aoe effects, a must have for aoe setup maybe, but we need someting to work with. At Bossencounter you switch back to FoE anyway. Like that you also can skip ACC and run FoE + Deadly Curse vs mobs in case you go for relentlesscurse 5/5 (I suggested to inflict LC arround WC´d mobs..not perfect but an improvement). More build diversity at least.
We really lack desperately in aoe. That way you can cast TC (maybe as a Dot with a 400% weaponproc) that is damagelinked for 30%.
If now mobs are allready inflicted with deadly curse by simply spamming WC (+20% damage, like WC itself) and Lesser curse procs from powers (ACC) or from feats like relentless curse (5/5) you get a +5% DR-debuff (as temptree) or +10% dps (as fury) on top. Maybe empowered by scornfull curse and a curse synergy from follow up power (Firy Blast) it would be a significant improvement I think.
Warlocks Curse would be a buff towards damage vs surrounding mobs like 20%, +5% group or 10% self, additive LC procs with an up to 80% damage increase for thtat dot (ACC+Scornfull Curse). An this only by applying WC once.
I simply added that towards the list on page 12.
This way it would be a smart way of mitigating damage for teammates, but not being very overpowering in for example PvP. SW is not a tank, so having an entire feature only reducing damage towards the SW themselves is useless, but a decent team mitigation would be beneficial. Also making SW focus around reducing enemy damage, like other powers does, is a nice addition to other classes focusing on increasing allies defenses.
20% sounds huge for a classfeature, but it has to be that way if it should be from any interest to get attention.
Looking at my DC´s tools.. I can buff any group using HG+AS+DG+Foresight etc far above DR cap with ease.
I started a Pally and only can say so far: 20% DR to allies from Sanctuary, Aura of protection 12,5% DR to allies, Shield of faith 30% less damage to allies, devine protector -60% damage towards allies, circle of power 25% DR, all together, great tools and nothing else needed.
OP all in all: great damage, great protector, easymode tanking by running tons of temp HP, thread is selfgenerated. Fun tbh.
Compared with my GF only looking at tanking option, simply lol.
My proposal with deadly curse + acc = OK dps within aoe..
Firstly ACC would proc Lesser curse. Which proc Creeping Death. < Deadly curse increase lesser curse time duration = your proc creeping death longer = more dps for longer time.
On top, lesser curse is not regular curse, thats mean you can apply them as many you want. To say so, if you are in fight, casting Arm of hadar, fiery botlt, even Eldritch Blast which third hit is AoE.
My whole idea is to make lesser curse mainstream. And curse itself more optional, using it only against selective/special foes.
All it's because, if we keep high dps for curse affected only. We keep SW bad in non curse affected ones.. This problem where since mod 4.
Anyways.. .I just dropped that idea just as example, so you could try use it for future suggestions..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
These are mechanics that should be fixed, not thrown away.
The changes you want would just make the warlock another CW, a caster which automatically applies core mechanic-buffs/debuffs just by attacking, which would be pointless because we already have an actual CW class and class reroll tokens, not to mention the fact that the actual CW also happens to be very good at what it does.
Ideally what should happen is that curses and related mechanics should simply be more rewarding.
Parting Blasphemy actually procs often in end-game dungeons, because Lesser Curse tends to run its course, and low tier dungeons, where you can basically just spam-curse stuff and they die. The point of Parting Blasphemy is that it procs effects like Magistrate's Patience since it can also crit. Soulbinders obviously proc it very often, as well as SWs who use powers like HG and WS.
A buff to Lesser Curse and Deadly Curse, which everybody agrees should happen, is going to affect this feat because, as I keep saying, this feat is closely tied to those powers. It's the same for Relentless Curse. Your proposed changes, on top of the changes already being proposed by most people for Deadly Curse/Lesser Curse, would break these feats if they're supposed to remain as mere T1 feats, which is why myself and some others are advocating caution when proposing buffs to them.
As for Lesser Curse itself, since people seem to mostly just agree that it needs a damage boost, I think the damage should simply scale - like it would always do at least 1% of the target's max HP OR 2% of the SW's max HP as damage per tick, whichever is higher (ignoring temp HP), with a max damage of 5% of the SW's max HP per tick. That should make it relevant again in the current meta. Atm it seems to only scale off weapon damage (ie, outdated) and only benefits from debuffs.
As for SWs excelling at dealing damage to cursed targets, this is practically all that remains of the SW's original identity as a striker that specializes in dealing massive damage to a small amount of targets. Although it had AoE options the SW could never really replace the CW - you'd need a complete rebalance of SW powers for that to happen - and while it could give the TR a run for its money it simply didn't have the TR's survivability and (in the case of Executioner) burst. It made up for this by having better multi-target options, so in group content the SW's modus operandi was selecting and then killing small number of (usually key/tanky) targets very quickly at a time.
Considering that it remained competent despite being introduced at a point when the "new" Destroyer GWF was freshly OP
(and was literally destroying everything/everyone) even as CWs were doing dungeon-wide AoE pulls, there's obviously room for such an identity among Neverwinter's striker classes. Even now the space should still be there, I don't know why SWs don't just reclaim it. Why compete for something that other classes already do well?
I like that damage based on your hp for lesser curse. Based on enemy hp might turn out buggy like that old fabled set total opness.
The limitations on its damage should be based on your HP, but after that there's no reason why it shouldn't scale with enemy HP. It's a small trick the devs are starting to use too, actually, if you look at the new Chult items.
Those prones and cc´s you get by reapplyig WC are nice but are from near no interest in PVE atm, are they?
Tab-SS-Tab-SS- only to get that dot running, no way, Tab HS Tab... not working atm, and PVP is dead
Tab HG Tab, the only usefull Curse Consume effect in PVP and it´s only is from interest in PVE not for the cc effect but only to get back your 20% dps and your procs running.
Wraith Shadow, not used in PVP never was, and not from use in PVE, you kill your dot, onyl damn lock might use that dot, if it was not broken. The reason why Curse Consume was near deleted 2016 was the fact that noone wanted to go on like that, look up for those threads yourself. WC your targets and kill your buff at once, it is contradictious as long as Curse Consume kill your buffs. Lesser Curse once powerfull ? Soul Scorch allways worked with WC not with LC as far as I remember, LC did not proc that dot, same as TC never did.
Relentless curse speaks for itself: "When your Warlock's Curse is removed from a target, that target has a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to be afflicted with a Lesser Curse. " Nothing else to say, this feat is simply garbage.
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Scourge_Warlock
It is an insult and noone should put a point in that pittyfull feat. I remove my best buff (Warlocks Curse) to get that one Lesser Curse proc? lol, I think at that point we agree, at least I hope so in your case?
Parting Blasphemy... I really don´t know where to begin to make YOU understand. You claim to run 7 warlocks and do a lot of theorycrafting but miss the most important point, writing walls of text.
This feat was bad since ever, after rework it´s even worse. It was from use with a bug feated (1/5) for endless staminagain combined with eldritch momentum in PVP. Parting Blasphemy dealt damage towards you proccing eldritch and was fixed 21.09.2016 "the big rework".
Beyond that it simply was bad, allways, concernig dps and procs.
Maybe it was from use combined with deadly curse.Soulbinder (near noone plays that path , except you run beside a HB) used to run ACC+ xy so DC is a choice like BT and D2D.
I really would like to see any considerable procrate in enddungeons, without gimping your build by using powers noone uses as Hellbringer. Soulbinder might be the only Paragon to use that feat, even doing so it is and ALLWAYS was underwhelmingly bad.
I show you one log from Preview running solo Kessel: 91 procs through all that mobs
Thats 91 procs of weapon damage fro a hole run. I assure you that actual mobs in Tong or FBI stay even longer alive than in my solorun. The overall damage is not to talk off, so garbage, nothing else, like it allways was. It´s worse than Critical Promise, and it`s worse than Killing Curse, ahrd to tell wich one get´s the "Crappy Crown" ... all of them 0% 0% 0%
Look at Elven Ferocity.. those Boons are even better than a 5/5 feat like PB, CP and KC !!! 15 feat points for zero dps, lol.
And about Bossencounter we do not need to run PB for a singel target , do we?
Here the procs of single target using WB (curse), PoP, KF, ACC: 19 times, dps garbage as it allways was.
https://i.imgur.com/w0Txfbk.png
And here the utility of Parting Blasphemy on a single target, even using Vampires Embrance and Hadar Grasp "Tab-power-Tab" all time to not miss one PB proc: 30 times, dps garbage as usually.. but no it surpassed Killing Curse but beaten by Critical Promise, hey... destroying my dps by using worse powers to proc a crappy feat.
https://i.imgur.com/DEbQzKb.png
Here a test with magistrats patience and Parting Blasphemy. Anyway talking of a synergy between a bad insignia boni and an underwhelimg feat is wasted.
Compared to insigniaboni like Protectors Camradie, Artificers persuation, Assassins Covenant, Shepards Devotion, Galdiators Guile... MP is more like a bad choice imo damage: MB 0%, PB 1%, Procrate for PB-Soulbinder 38 times, you have to buff that feat A LOT to make it a considerable choice.
https://i.imgur.com/qK6hQ7w.png
Telling everyone that feat was or is from any use is nonsense, no it´s not and nerver was from bigger interst in any build so far, speaking of existing meta like Crit builds.
The feat has to be changed in any way to make it work, maybe for both paragons, but that will not work in case we keep it as is and was for the last 4 years of a crappy feat.
And now I run SB-Fury using Deadly Curse+ ACC + PB + Magisters Patience in Kessel and I assure you it´s ahard task without any lifesteal adn without using Borrowed time, brb.
The only considerable run to speak of any use from those feats, PB+MC+ACC+DC. It is one build out of one paragon to give them any meaning, not to talk of the fact that the overall dps from all those 2 feats, one insignia and a classfeature are 4% in a hole. It won´t work with HB, since HB does not skip FoE or NPNM for DC and it will not work with any build below a considerable critrate, since ACC does´not work and MP also not. Beside that DC is a pretty poor damageincrease overall. Yor need masses of mobs and even though it won´t be a big win.
Btw. the only reason why Critcal Promise and MP procced more often that run, is fact that I run BoVA (to compensate my missing LS), wich procs lot´s of stuff all time (it´s a multiproccer for WE, CP, MP). Normally BoVa is not the first pick, not for a dps spec, except you want to be slowed down and drop behind the Pally.
@tyrtallow And one last, last comment.. i could not find any prove or setup for Parting Blasphemy proccing Magistrate Patience?
Deadly curse procs it, yes, BoVa procs it on every tick for high ammounts, but not PB, nope guess you are wrong.
Try to understand that most player with crit builds never found anything usefull about PB, CP, relentless curse etc., nothing that improves the dps or performacne significant. Just go through all those builds and post and comments over the last 4 years and show me one comment that spoke of those feats in a positive way being an improvement... there is none, do not waste your time.
Btw. who runs Wraith Shadow as a dps setup? anyone?
IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
And then you go on to bash Soulbinder, a path that badly needs improvement. Yeah, because who cares about a path that isn't your character's right? That's NOT what we're here for, right - making SWs better?
YOU HAMSTER.
And then you go on to create a little experiment BASED ON THE CURRENT BROKEN SW META, WHICH EVERYONE HERE IS TRYING TO IMPROVE, and try to show me numbers of a run -without HAMSTER Curse Consume- as if to somehow trying prove that Parting Blasphemy is underperforming (even though it obviously already SHOULD - hell it's HAMSTER T1 feat) and making it sound like it's supposed to be able to save the SW class single-handedly on its own.
Sure, I could also show you a run where I'm using Fury WITHOUT the Soul Puppet and point out how ridiculously bad the Soul Puppet is after, which would be true but equally as pointless.
I could then ask for a buff to the Soul Puppet based on something like the broken TR Shadow of Demise feat because it doesn't matter where I get my standards, right? Because it doesn't matter what every other capstone does, what only matters are the capstones that are relevant to DPS? Everything else is trash and useless, right? We should really just get rid of everything else that no one uses - just lump them all up and throw them away - because, who cares?
A lot of wasted effort to prove nothing, but you only have yourself to blame for thinking that you had something to prove in the first place.
As for Parting Blasphmeny and Magistrate's Patience, my own testing confirms that they no longer work together. It's a recent change because I've been pointing out since mod10 that it can create a damage recursion with Magistrate's Patience. Apparently the devs notice things like these.
I made my point showing you how underwhelming thes feats are, and they were not one 1% better before mod 10.
I run SB most of the time during last years, beside damnation. The fact that noone plays SB, is the fact that it does not work as it should (pure striker), it´s a simple fact, no bashing. Everyone runs HB atm a simple fact everyone knows.
Noone ever could get a considerable ammount of damage out of PB and RC feats since the beginning of that class, you just seem to now nothing about those last years and never read those threads nor watched those shown act logs, only pretending.
You are wrong in so manny ways, like synergy of PB proccing your insignia wich is wrong, it doesn´t.
You circle arround a feature and a classmechanic wich is near dead, talking of the fact, that Curse consume is only used by one power effectively atm, Soul Scorch, that´s all.
By that you praise the fact that RC leads LC to crit (for a pityfull ammount) wich might be more a bug than an intended or interesting synergy, since warlock = bugs
I am also 100% sure you did not run that class consistently in the last years, that´s impossible , following your writings.
Btw you are free to show act logs from enddungeons using Parting Blasphemy, if you really think it procs in a considerable ammount at endcontent and leads to any kind of benefit or synergy like that.
I want to get rid of some crappy feats, improve the performance and not hang arround another 4 years, even if it´s a T1 feature with an underwhelming effect.
Heading towards Mod 13: "Hmm, what do I pick pest or cholera?"
Edit: removed unnecessary stuff
These Feats are HAMSTER now but we should work on improving them instead of getting rid of them cause this makes Warlock interesting.
(atleast thats how i understood it)
Edit:
i always play SB on bosses^^ so its not noone
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Tell me in wich scenario you deal a considerable damage by removing or running off curses, if those mobs die in the blink of an eye and you lost your tools to consume curses?
I only know one scenario. You deal near no damage and those mobs live forever.
"When a Curse is removed from a target, deal 10/20/30/40/50% of your weapon damage to that target. "
If this class should deal more aoe (not sure if everyone agrees about that) you need at least feats or classfeature to instant deal more dps towards mobs.
A classfeature like Deadly Curse could work as debuff or damagebuff on top, like a 10-20% towards mobs not affected by WC. The DOT itself is too weak, except you buff it significant.
And no Bloody I do not want flame fight, but I also do not want to talk about Pizza
And @tom#6998 , I also run SB at bosses, normally only if another HB is on board. If you are the only real dps it´s an option, but the moment you are two dps, it is hard to egalize the loss of 18% buff towards him and your group.
Then it was changed so that curse consume is meant only for WC and any other curse got the new curse synergy.
I agree that curse consuming isn't as rewarding as it could be, specially now that so few powers do it. The loss of the damage buff can be entirely mitigated if you immediately reapply it, but it can certainly be stressful at times. Still, if a little more rewarding, it could be a fun mechanic.
One thing I thought could make it better is an improved curse consume according to your capstone. Each capstone could have its own extra curse consume effect.
Fury could make it so that curse consuming deals an AoE damage equal to one tick of all CD damage currently on the target of the consume.
Damnation could make curse consume add a stack of soul investiture to the puppet (which should have the cap increased by 5), apply lesser curse to all targets around it and a debuff on the target that makes the puppet deal 15% more damage to it for 15 seconds.
Temptation could be something like curse consume adds 5% party damage buff and 50% of max health temp HP for 15 seconds.
This could make curse consume more interesting and colorful. I'd also make Curse Bite a curse consume effect instead of synergy. Might make it an interesting AoE option for fury.
DT, FB and i guess curse Bite did work with LC, not sure if FB also consumed WC, guess so.
But we lost those consume effects on our aoe abilities to get curse synergy. By that feats like Parting Blasphemy lost it´s existatial basic.
If curse consume should be from interest you need to turn back the time and give those aoe curse consume again. By that you drop significantly in Creeping Death procs for sure. Creeeping Death before rework about 15% of overal dps, now the double.
Curse consume kills LC by that CD did not proc that good as now.
If anyone would remember that with Curse synergy the CD procs were much more constant and dps increased significant.
If we now go back to curse consume with aoe spells, CD will drop again.
You lose a 60% dps proc (mod13 75%) for every dealt damage towards a target that lost it´s LC. You have to reapply LC with a crit (ACC) to benefit once again from that 60% DOT.
To equalize that dps loss you need to buff Parting Blasphemy, to proc for 60% (75%) of dealt damage by removing that curse, beside the fact that you need to invest 5/5 into that feat.
I agree about Curse consume for WC should be rewarded, like you said. Consuming that WC with HG deals aoe/soul investiture+debuff, sounds pretty good, since that aoe hits cursed targets (LC) and procs CD by that.
Neverwinter Balance 2017
Tong 15.11.2017 23:14
35 DC
18 OP
20 GWF
12 GF
10 CW
3TR
3 Hunter
1 warlock