2x Superior Potency + 3x Greater Enchantment Stones
12->13
3%
55000
Ultimate Potency
13->14
1%
60000
2x Ultimate Potency + 3x Superior Enchantment Stones
This is the table that shows the RP needed to go up a rank.
In game the refining window indicates I need 3 X Ultimate Enchanting Stones to go to rank 14, not Superior... changes to refining have been overall pretty good, but you guys have built the wall way too high for max ranks. Most folks I know want to beleive they can actually make it to max. It doesn't have to be overnight or even quickly without RL expense, but sorry 55 coals or some insane luck on an insane number of green wards and some Enchantment Stones that barely exist in game is not really encouraging...in fact I would say it's pretty much de-motivatating.
The naming was changed, but it is the same progression as initially pitched in this thread. At one point a suggestion from players came up that we should match the prefix on enchanting stones to the prefix of the marks of potency they were used with to make it easier to understand/remember what was needed. When I did that, I forgot to update the initial post with the name change, but it was always the pitch and the plan to have it be the stones that drop from ToNG.
Those stones are rarer and harder to get a hold of right now, but will become more common as we add more dungeons and content. Rank 14s aren't needed for any of our current content and are meant to be a goal for those who have everything else which is why they are gated by the hardest dungeon we currently have.
One request that I have, going forward:
Please, please, please, make your difficult content less dependent on pure DPS so we controller builds can have a chance at running them. Tonight I had an awful TONG attempt because Orcus has 1x10^12 HP and as a CW I was expected to be a pure DPS build (as opposed to the Spellstorm Oppressor ultra CC build that my CW currently is). It's not fun when party members are demanding you change your build right then and there because the content has made everyone come to expect DPS and nothing else. She was built during mod 2, when adds were the norm not the exception, and I've stubbornly kept her with the same paragon tree through thick and thin since. It is supposed to be a viable build, but in reality it isn't. I won't even bother taking her to FBI or Svardborg, for instance, because everything and their dog of note is immune to CC, and having a CC build makes her ill-suited for dealing raw DPS (and she is 14.9k IL with all R12s!)
NO ONE wants a controller, because while a controller makes it really easy to get to the boss, we are useless once we enter the boss fight. Sure, I can keep those Orcus zombies frozen until the Hells freeze over, but it means that it will be that long until we drain Orcus of his 1x10^12 HP.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
but sorry 55 coals or some insane luck on an insane number of green wards and some Enchantment Stones that barely exist in game is not really encouraging...in fact I would say it's pretty much de-motivatating.
Well, getting from R12 to R13 is not that bad. Let's say you have 27 enchants and runestones you want to upgrade. Getting from R12 to R13 is not that hard. You need a shitload of RPs, of course, and stuff from the bazaar, as well as a large number of wards - almost 900 on the average. Still, it is doable.
Going from R13 to R14 on the other hand, well...that's harder, and that's because of the ultimate stones that currently only drop in ToNG (although I am pretty sure they will also drop in the new dungeon that will be introduced in Mod 13.)
Based on my limited data set, I guess the drop rate is in the 10-15% range, which would mean I would need to farm ToNG for the next 6 months to get the stones I need. Hard, but doable.
Hoping for improvements...
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
as a CW I was expected to be a pure DPS build (as opposed to the Spellstorm Oppressor ultra CC build that my CW currently is).
Uhm..that's the problem, not your build. The Orcus fight assumes there is one primary DPS (who picks the curse to the right) and you should simply not be playing the role of a primary DPSer unless you have a DPS build.
ToNG can be completed with a large variety of groups, but you really want one good primary DPS and one or two buffing/debuffing DCs, An OP is highly useful, but the remaining party members can be just about anything - I had a really great run yesterday with a GWF/GWF/HR/OP/DC group, for example.
Anyhow, when running ToNG with a CW, I prefer MoFs - a CC-focused build can certainly be useful - just don't as the primary DPSer, as I said.
More lining in the pockets for a free GAME ... ha , ARC is coming off as greedy and can give a careless about player feedback , just shut down your forums they are worthless and a waste of time for those that try to make some sense to the DEV's ... our input is meaningless ... thanks for the Astral Diamond exchange BOOM in converting AD to ZEN and the salvage debacle rate , you really are making what you call a FREE GAME into a game for the rich ... good jod NOT !
I think you are freezing out returning players. With a must have component ONLY available from a mod boss i dont have unlocked, youve forced me to purchase 6 million in stones PER UPGRADE. i dont have tong unlocked. i quit playing at skt. i was interested in coming back, and i have, but i have NO way of getting UEC since im 4 weeks out from tong unlock
I think you are freezing out returning players. With a must have component ONLY available from a mod boss i dont have unlocked, youve forced me to purchase 6 million in stones PER UPGRADE. i dont have tong unlocked. i quit playing at skt. i was interested in coming back, and i have, but i have NO way of getting UEC since im 4 weeks out from tong unlock
Welcome back!
At the very least, this isn't a "must have" and it's going to get easier going forward as more and more drop from more and more content. There's a ton of upgrading to do to reach R13s before R14s start being your only available area of advancement, and I suspect the price will drop hard as more people open the lockboxes that contain them, more lockboxes containing them are released, and more dungeons drop them.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,463Arc User
I think you are freezing out returning players. With a must have component ONLY available from a mod boss i dont have unlocked, youve forced me to purchase 6 million in stones PER UPGRADE. i dont have tong unlocked. i quit playing at skt. i was interested in coming back, and i have, but i have NO way of getting UEC since im 4 weeks out from tong unlock
I guess you have everything in r12 already. I am not even thinking about r13 until my toons are fully equipped with r12.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I think you are freezing out returning players. With a must have component ONLY available from a mod boss i dont have unlocked, youve forced me to purchase 6 million in stones PER UPGRADE. i dont have tong unlocked. i quit playing at skt. i was interested in coming back, and i have, but i have NO way of getting UEC since im 4 weeks out from tong unlock
It's in lockboxes too so it's not only T9G. On top of that since when is it required to have all R14s? Is there a rule somewhere I haven't seen that says if you can't get all R14's don't even bother? It's literally a day after the changes. We have no idea where these marks will really end up in price nor what the final drop rate will be (hell I don't think the current rate is known yet except that it's low). Based on what I do know about the droprate it's probably too low. Hopefully that changes. If not then it's a major issue since that means a R14 will cost a few million to make or several lucky drops.
I think the tenebrous has one niche application in PvE - OP's with templars wrath & burning light plus lightning enchantment. Go into a mob - proc TW for 500K HP - charge BL ticks 9 times. When you hit 5 targets with 9 BL ticks you get 135 lightning arcs plus 45 hits from BL ticks = 180 hits. Then watch Tenebrous do its thing.
According to the rules supposedly put in place by the devs, the enchantment cannot proc from DoTs, which should immediately disqualify Burning Light as a good application for the enchantment. If however Burning Light does proc the enchant, I would have to wonder if it isn't a bug, since last I checked it is a DoT.
Note though, that last I checked, weapon enchants procced by DoTs seem to be capable of applying Tenebrous, and I am fairly sure each tick of Burning Light procs weapon enchants, which I am not sure is intended either.
If you are in actuality getting less damage increase the more points you put into power, how is that not a diminishing return?
As eldritch stated, you never get less increase from power. The smaller relative increase comes from is being addition rather than multiplication. It's like giving 25 cents to a millionaire compared to giving 25 cents to a small child. On one hand you give the millionaire nothing of value, while on the other, you likely doubled the small child's life's savings. It's still 25 cents. The 25 cents own value didn't diminish, the relative increase did.
BL is not a DoT, it fires individual attacks - if an enemy moves out of range part way through the discharge they stop being hit. The same goes for the CW's Icy Terrain.
Then why is Pillar of Power classified as a DoT? If they move out, it stops. Still classified as a DoT.
EDIT - Actually, even better yet, why is Punishing Light, a devoted cleric at-will that must be channeled on enemies, considered a DoT?
I think the tenebrous has one niche application in PvE - OP's with templars wrath & burning light plus lightning enchantment. Go into a mob - proc TW for 500K HP - charge BL ticks 9 times. When you hit 5 targets with 9 BL ticks you get 135 lightning arcs plus 45 hits from BL ticks = 180 hits. Then watch Tenebrous do its thing.
According to the rules supposedly put in place by the devs, the enchantment cannot proc from DoTs, which should immediately disqualify Burning Light as a good application for the enchantment. If however Burning Light does proc the enchant, I would have to wonder if it isn't a bug, since last I checked it is a DoT.
Note though, that last I checked, weapon enchants procced by DoTs seem to be capable of applying Tenebrous, and I am fairly sure each tick of Burning Light procs weapon enchants, which I am not sure is intended either.
If you are in actuality getting less damage increase the more points you put into power, how is that not a diminishing return?
As eldritch stated, you never get less increase from power. The smaller relative increase comes from is being addition rather than multiplication. It's like giving 25 cents to a millionaire compared to giving 25 cents to a small child. On one hand you give the millionaire nothing of value, while on the other, you likely doubled the small child's life's savings. It's still 25 cents. The 25 cents own value didn't diminish, the relative increase did.
BL is not a DoT, it fires individual attacks - if an enemy moves out of range part way through the discharge they stop being hit. The same goes for the CW's Icy Terrain.
I just went and looked up Pillar of Power and it is telling me it is a Burst rather than a DoT power. Encounter Personal, 13' Burst 6.6 cooldown 1,753 - 2,108 Fire Damage So how is this still classified as a DoT ?? Anyone really I am asking???
I think the tenebrous has one niche application in PvE - OP's with templars wrath & burning light plus lightning enchantment. Go into a mob - proc TW for 500K HP - charge BL ticks 9 times. When you hit 5 targets with 9 BL ticks you get 135 lightning arcs plus 45 hits from BL ticks = 180 hits. Then watch Tenebrous do its thing.
According to the rules supposedly put in place by the devs, the enchantment cannot proc from DoTs, which should immediately disqualify Burning Light as a good application for the enchantment. If however Burning Light does proc the enchant, I would have to wonder if it isn't a bug, since last I checked it is a DoT.
Note though, that last I checked, weapon enchants procced by DoTs seem to be capable of applying Tenebrous, and I am fairly sure each tick of Burning Light procs weapon enchants, which I am not sure is intended either.
If you are in actuality getting less damage increase the more points you put into power, how is that not a diminishing return?
As eldritch stated, you never get less increase from power. The smaller relative increase comes from is being addition rather than multiplication. It's like giving 25 cents to a millionaire compared to giving 25 cents to a small child. On one hand you give the millionaire nothing of value, while on the other, you likely doubled the small child's life's savings. It's still 25 cents. The 25 cents own value didn't diminish, the relative increase did.
BL is not a DoT, it fires individual attacks - if an enemy moves out of range part way through the discharge they stop being hit. The same goes for the CW's Icy Terrain.
I just went and looked up Pillar of Power and it is telling me it is a Burst rather than a DoT power. Encounter Personal, 13' Burst 6.6 cooldown 1,753 - 2,108 Fire Damage So how is this still classified as a DoT ?? Anyone really I am asking???
Rank 1 enchantment and runestone are useless, they can't be use to upgrade to Rank 2 or any other rank...the "refinement points" should be "1" instead "0".
I think the tenebrous has one niche application in PvE - OP's with templars wrath & burning light plus lightning enchantment. Go into a mob - proc TW for 500K HP - charge BL ticks 9 times. When you hit 5 targets with 9 BL ticks you get 135 lightning arcs plus 45 hits from BL ticks = 180 hits. Then watch Tenebrous do its thing.
According to the rules supposedly put in place by the devs, the enchantment cannot proc from DoTs, which should immediately disqualify Burning Light as a good application for the enchantment. If however Burning Light does proc the enchant, I would have to wonder if it isn't a bug, since last I checked it is a DoT.
Note though, that last I checked, weapon enchants procced by DoTs seem to be capable of applying Tenebrous, and I am fairly sure each tick of Burning Light procs weapon enchants, which I am not sure is intended either.
If you are in actuality getting less damage increase the more points you put into power, how is that not a diminishing return?
As eldritch stated, you never get less increase from power. The smaller relative increase comes from is being addition rather than multiplication. It's like giving 25 cents to a millionaire compared to giving 25 cents to a small child. On one hand you give the millionaire nothing of value, while on the other, you likely doubled the small child's life's savings. It's still 25 cents. The 25 cents own value didn't diminish, the relative increase did.
BL is not a DoT, it fires individual attacks - if an enemy moves out of range part way through the discharge they stop being hit. The same goes for the CW's Icy Terrain.
I just went and looked up Pillar of Power and it is telling me it is a Burst rather than a DoT power. Encounter Personal, 13' Burst 6.6 cooldown 1,753 - 2,108 Fire Damage So how is this still classified as a DoT ?? Anyone really I am asking???
Burst is the AoE not the damage type.
So it is nothing like the OP's Burning Light or the CW's Icy Terrain then. Correct? And thank you.
At the very least, this isn't a "must have" and it's going to get easier going forward as more and more drop from more and more content. There's a ton of upgrading to do to reach R13s before R14s start being your only available area of advancement, and I suspect the price will drop hard as more people open the lockboxes that contain them, more lockboxes containing them are released, and more dungeons drop them.
New dungeons will be as hard if not harder than TONG.
Something seems wrong with this enchant, Tested during 1 hour yesterday with 19% and impossible to drop better gems than Emeralds (white pearls, peridots, emeralds) on mobs lvl 70-73. Enchants equiped: 1 lvl 13, 1 lvl 12, 1 lvl 11, 1 lvl 9, 2 lvl 8
I think you may have just gotten unlucky. With what you were doing, a Black Opal is the highest gemstone that you could have received. The majority of gems you get should be emerald and below, but it can go higher.
Something seems wrong with this enchant, Tested during 1 hour yesterday with 19% and impossible to drop better gems than Emeralds (white pearls, peridots, emeralds) on mobs lvl 70-73. Enchants equiped: 1 lvl 13, 1 lvl 12, 1 lvl 11, 1 lvl 9, 2 lvl 8
I think you may have just gotten unlucky. With what you were doing, a Black Opal is the highest gemstone that you could have received. The majority of gems you get should be emerald and below, but it can go higher.
Thx for your quick feedback, which is very apprecied
Brewald - GWF 18.3k Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k Valrik - DC AC 18.2k Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
ToNG can be completed with a large variety of groups, but you really want one good primary DPS and one or two buffing/debuffing DCs, An OP is highly useful, but the remaining party members can be just about anything
VHDPS+2xDC+OP Ok so what your saying is find X group of Four people to carry you? of course, that sounds like so much fun? I mean why wouldn't you play a game that requires a fixed group of people. Have the Dev's managed to finish their own Tong yet? Last I heard they couldn't even do it them selves with the parameters they said it could be done with.
Based on my limited data set, I guess the drop rate is in the 10-15% range, which would mean I would need to farm ToNG for the next 6 months to get the stones I need. Hard, but doable.
Way lower than 10%. I ran Tong 151 times and finally got an ultimate. The drop rate is stupidly low.
I ran once and got an ultimate, thinking I only needed one to upgrade from r13 to r14 I was initially excited, but then realized it was 3 so yeah, that is basically never going to happen even if the drop rate was 100% that would take me a year to do my 3 toons, the 1% that it actually drops is way to low, I won't be doing r14 until something better happens.
I think that there is a sensible solution to a lot of these "bad luck" scenarios that nobody would complain about and wouldn't break the game. If there is a significant statistical deviation concerning successful attempts to upgrade and refine enchants or equipment, this failure should be limited and a "pity counter" should be implemented to counter these instances (which occur to me more often than not).
Example:
If there is a 10% statistical chance to succeed in an upgrade (average of ten attempts) then cap off the failures at 19 attempts, where the 20th will automatically result in success.
If there is a 3% chance, then cap the attempts at 65 failures and automatically succeed on the 66th attempt.
This seems to be fair, if you ask me. If you were to be even more generous, on the 3% and the 1% upgrade successes, allow for only a 1.5x standard deviation (50% instead of 100% deviation) -- which would make the 1% chance automatically succeed on the 150th attempt and a 3% chance automatically succeed on the 50th attempt.
Comments
Please, please, please, make your difficult content less dependent on pure DPS so we controller builds can have a chance at running them. Tonight I had an awful TONG attempt because Orcus has 1x10^12 HP and as a CW I was expected to be a pure DPS build (as opposed to the Spellstorm Oppressor ultra CC build that my CW currently is). It's not fun when party members are demanding you change your build right then and there because the content has made everyone come to expect DPS and nothing else. She was built during mod 2, when adds were the norm not the exception, and I've stubbornly kept her with the same paragon tree through thick and thin since. It is supposed to be a viable build, but in reality it isn't. I won't even bother taking her to FBI or Svardborg, for instance, because everything and their dog of note is immune to CC, and having a CC build makes her ill-suited for dealing raw DPS (and she is 14.9k IL with all R12s!)
NO ONE wants a controller, because while a controller makes it really easy to get to the boss, we are useless once we enter the boss fight. Sure, I can keep those Orcus zombies frozen until the Hells freeze over, but it means that it will be that long until we drain Orcus of his 1x10^12 HP.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Going from R13 to R14 on the other hand, well...that's harder, and that's because of the ultimate stones that currently only drop in ToNG (although I am pretty sure they will also drop in the new dungeon that will be introduced in Mod 13.)
Based on my limited data set, I guess the drop rate is in the 10-15% range, which would mean I would need to farm ToNG for the next 6 months to get the stones I need. Hard, but doable.
ToNG can be completed with a large variety of groups, but you really want one good primary DPS and one or two buffing/debuffing DCs, An OP is highly useful, but the remaining party members can be just about anything - I had a really great run yesterday with a GWF/GWF/HR/OP/DC group, for example.
Anyhow, when running ToNG with a CW, I prefer MoFs - a CC-focused build can certainly be useful - just don't as the primary DPSer, as I said.
At the very least, this isn't a "must have" and it's going to get easier going forward as more and more drop from more and more content. There's a ton of upgrading to do to reach R13s before R14s start being your only available area of advancement, and I suspect the price will drop hard as more people open the lockboxes that contain them, more lockboxes containing them are released, and more dungeons drop them.
Encounter
Personal, 13' Burst
6.6 cooldown
1,753 - 2,108 Fire Damage
So how is this still classified as a DoT ??
Anyone really I am asking???
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
Nope. 2800.
Something seems wrong with this enchant,
Tested during 1 hour yesterday with 19% and impossible to drop better gems than Emeralds (white pearls, peridots, emeralds) on mobs lvl 70-73.
Enchants equiped: 1 lvl 13, 1 lvl 12, 1 lvl 11, 1 lvl 9, 2 lvl 8
Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Example:
If there is a 10% statistical chance to succeed in an upgrade (average of ten attempts) then cap off the failures at 19 attempts, where the 20th will automatically result in success.
If there is a 3% chance, then cap the attempts at 65 failures and automatically succeed on the 66th attempt.
This seems to be fair, if you ask me. If you were to be even more generous, on the 3% and the 1% upgrade successes, allow for only a 1.5x standard deviation (50% instead of 100% deviation) -- which would make the 1% chance automatically succeed on the 150th attempt and a 3% chance automatically succeed on the 50th attempt.