Devs and moderators where are you?

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

When you create discussion threads ie new mod 12b discussions, that go on and on with player feedback, then don't reply or even comment it starts to look like you don't care what we have to say about the threads you your selves created.We have opinions, questions, ideas and proposals that we would like to have considered. We would appreciate a little more feedback than we have been getting. I'm posting here because it doesn't appear that you are reading the other threads.

nitocris83 · September 2017

Feedback posts have a number of replies from Developers but they tend to get lost in the player comments (1 Dev posting vs multiple players posting) but the Dev Track should be a good place to start when looking for replies on a thread. It's also important to keep in mind that Devs are still working on the game so their time is split.

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

I'm not getting dev tracker on my phone, sure would like to,I can get it on pc, it's kinda hard to follow it when it keeps jumping around but glad to see we have some form of it again(thank you). I still haven't seen any followups on 12b bonding issues in a long time. I Haven't had a chance to check on the new dungeon ques, and refining changes yet to see if anything has changed, but look forward to doing so.

armadeonx · September 2017

On that point, it would be nice if @rgutscheradev replied on the campaign token thread - he's not commented since making it and it's been 10 days now...

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

Ok I wanted to be fair so I've spent a little time going over the posts in the other treads I mentioned. Refining refining doesn't seem to have many comments from devs, the latest I recall was over a week old, but I'm not seeing too many people asking for their attention, seems like players are helping each other figure things out, I don't think higher level players are happy about changes here but they're not as angry as they are over bonding nerf, newer players are probably ok with things here.
The que changes haven't had comment for about four days now from devs but it looks like asterdahl has been trying, commenting quite a few times before his last post. Still people seem pretty upset about this topic, perhaps he could use some help.
Looks like you still need to work with players more on the bonding stone issues. Angry frustrated players were begging for your attentions and got nothing. several had what seemed to be helpful purposals that got no feedback. Looks like it got to the point that they just gave up on the thread, figuring that no game reps were reading it. Which frankly is the reason I created this as a new discussion thread instead of just putting it where I thought it wouldn't be seen.
I think you should close the old bonding stone thread and start a fresh one, 44 pages is way too much for anyone to try to get through, let us know if you are considering any of our ideas or if you have had any new ones of your own that your working on or if you just intend to go ahead in spite of our displeasures.
Thanks

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

I think there are some very good proposals, yours included defiantone99 in the 44 pages on the bonding thread, that would be far more agreeable to the players. I suggested freezing the bonding stones at level 12 but not changing anything about the way they work and letting the other rune stones go up to 14. Then they could see if they were on par with each other and if anything further needed to be done. That way there wouldn't be any nerf at all but other stones would be more viable. I hope somewhere in all that's been put out there they come up with a better idea than what they have right now, it would hurt the game too much.

wylonus · September 2017

this is suppose to be Home forum site, and they been using Twitter and Facebook sites to post and chat with, those are considered as 3rd party sites.

kreatyve · September 2017

wylonus said:
this is suppose to be Home forum site, and they been using Twitter and Facebook sites to post and chat with, those are considered as 3rd party sites.

I don't think you fully understand the meaning of 3rd party.

Every game company uses social media to interact with their customers. It's necessary for business.

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

They may not be a third party sites but I think wylonus is correct that this is where comments and game inforation is supposed to be communicated first. Many people don't use Facebook and Twitter and don't want to. When we hear that devs are making excuses that they can't easily post to forums and are using Twitter to relay info to moderators to post to forums. You have problems. If they can access twitter they can access forums, they are just slowin the process.
Facebook and Twitter are nice but forums need to come first.

zebular · September 2017

inyawayupdeep said:
They may not be a third party sites but I think wylonus is correct that this is where comments and game inforation is supposed to be communicated first. Many people don't use Facebook and Twitter and don't want to. When we hear that devs are making excuses that they can't easily post to forums and are using Twitter to relay info to moderators to post to forums. You have problems. If they can access twitter they can access forums, they are just slowin the process.

Facebook and Twitter are nice but forums need to come first.

I'd hazard to say that more people use facebook and twitter than the forums. The forum population is an extremely small number compared to the player base of the game. Most players do not post on gaming forums. Facebook and Twitter are easily accessible via mobile devices and have live notification options for updates and posts by companies. We live in an era of Social Media where you can reach millions of people instantly, and when gaming forums have never truly represented the majority of any MMO's population, Social Media platforms are easily discerned as the go-to-place to quickly post an update for their players.

I'm not saying the forums should be forsaken, just giving reasoning as to why harkening on an assumption that Social Media is not the way to deliver fast updates to a wide-reaching audience is an inherent fallacy of an assumption. Also,
posting to social media is not slowing the process. It is actually much quicker to post on Facebook and Twitter than the forums, as well as it is more accessible to those posting it as it can be posted from anywhere, at any time, from a multitude of devices.

1) Walk to your office, sit down at your desk, log into your computer, load the browser, load the forums, write a post.
or
2) Pull out your phone from wherever you are, unlock it with a swipe/face recognition/pin/voice recognition/whatever,
press Twitter, post to Twitter and it auto-posts to Facebook too due. You can even circumvent the loading of Twitter step on many smartphones now just by saying, "Post to Twitter, yada yada" or whatever...

The one thing that is needed is for there to be a way to have all three, Forums, Twitter, and Facebook be in sync. Where when they post an update to one platform, it automatically posts to the forums as well or vice verse. Drupal has this ability, not sure if Vanilla does. Really wish we'd move to Drupal.

dupeks · September 2017

zebular said:

inyawayupdeep said:
They may not be a third party sites but I think wylonus is correct that this is where comments and game inforation is supposed to be communicated first. Many people don't use Facebook and Twitter and don't want to. When we hear that devs are making excuses that they can't easily post to forums and are using Twitter to relay info to moderators to post to forums. You have problems. If they can access twitter they can access forums, they are just slowin the process.

Facebook and Twitter are nice but forums need to come first.
I'd hazard to say that more people use facebook and twitter than the forums. The forum population is an extremely small number compared to the player base of the game. Most players do not post on gaming forums. Facebook and Twitter are easily accessible via mobile devices and have live notification options for updates and posts by companies. We live in an era of Social Media where you can reach millions of people instantly, and when gaming forums have never truly represented the majority of any MMO's population, Social Media platforms are easily discerned as the go-to-place to quickly post an update for their players.

I'm not saying the forums should be forsaken, just giving reasoning as to why harkening on an assumption that Social Media is not the way to deliver fast updates to a wide-reaching audience is an inherent fallacy of an assumption.

In this great era of Social Media, there are a lot of tools that help with cross-posting on multiple channels, including forums.

I think it would be worthwhile to have someone investigate such a tool, it would probably also cut down on the workload of managing multiple channels individually.

zebular · September 2017

dupeks said:

zebular said:

inyawayupdeep said:
They may not be a third party sites but I think wylonus is correct that this is where comments and game inforation is supposed to be communicated first. Many people don't use Facebook and Twitter and don't want to. When we hear that devs are making excuses that they can't easily post to forums and are using Twitter to relay info to moderators to post to forums. You have problems. If they can access twitter they can access forums, they are just slowin the process.

Facebook and Twitter are nice but forums need to come first.
I'd hazard to say that more people use facebook and twitter than the forums. The forum population is an extremely small number compared to the player base of the game. Most players do not post on gaming forums. Facebook and Twitter are easily accessible via mobile devices and have live notification options for updates and posts by companies. We live in an era of Social Media where you can reach millions of people instantly, and when gaming forums have never truly represented the majority of any MMO's population, Social Media platforms are easily discerned as the go-to-place to quickly post an update for their players.

I'm not saying the forums should be forsaken, just giving reasoning as to why harkening on an assumption that Social Media is not the way to deliver fast updates to a wide-reaching audience is an inherent fallacy of an assumption.

In this great era of Social Media, there are a lot of tools that help with cross-posting on multiple channels, including forums.

I think it would be worthwhile to have someone investigate such a tool, it would probably also cut down on the workload of managing multiple channels individually.

Aye, I've suggested this and said this many times. I went into great detail on this in the last thread about social media posting. Back some 15+ years ago, this propagating technology existed between forums and news sites, and not long after Facebook was born in 2004, the technology existed to do this between sites, forums, and facebook. Now, the technology is integrated into most social media, website, and forum coding. It really is a feature that is not being taken advantage here of and I do not know why.

micky1p00 · September 2017

zebular said:

inyawayupdeep said:
They may not be a third party sites but I think wylonus is correct that this is where comments and game inforation is supposed to be communicated first. Many people don't use Facebook and Twitter and don't want to. When we hear that devs are making excuses that they can't easily post to forums and are using Twitter to relay info to moderators to post to forums. You have problems. If they can access twitter they can access forums, they are just slowin the process.

Facebook and Twitter are nice but forums need to come first.
I'd hazard to say that more people use facebook and twitter than the forums. The forum population is an extremely small number compared to the player base of the game. Most players do not post on gaming forums. Facebook and Twitter are easily accessible via mobile devices and have live notification options for updates and posts by companies. We live in an era of Social Media where you can reach millions of people instantly, and when gaming forums have never truly represented the majority of any MMO's population, Social Media platforms are easily discerned as the go-to-place to quickly post an update for their players.

I'm not saying the forums should be forsaken, just giving reasoning as to why harkening on an assumption that Social Media is not the way to deliver fast updates to a wide-reaching audience is an inherent fallacy of an assumption. Also,
posting to social media is not slowing the process. It is actually much quicker to post on Facebook and Twitter than the forums, as well as it is more accessible to those posting it as it can be posted from anywhere, at any time, from a multitude of devices.

1) Walk to your office, sit down at your desk, log into your computer, load the browser, load the forums, write a post.
or
2) Pull out your phone from wherever you are, unlock it with a swipe/face recognition/pin/voice recognition/whatever,
press Twitter, post to Twitter and it auto-posts to Facebook too due. You can even circumvent the loading of Twitter step on many smartphones now just by saying, "Post to Twitter, yada yada" or whatever...

The one thing that is needed is for there to be a way to have all three, Forums, Twitter, and Facebook be in sync. Where when they post an update to one platform, it automatically posts to the forums as well or vice verse. Drupal has this ability, not sure if Vanilla does. Really wish we'd move to Drupal.

That it's easier to post, while true, it's IMO less relevant to me as a user.

It's the company consideration if to invest the time into such tools or have a person to update (or not update).
They have employees for that, and managers that need to decide what priority they give each thing. Personally I can't fathom why it's such an issue if there is a dedicated person to handle all of the media postings. And it's not some roaming sales manager, it's a person with an office, that can login and do all the needed posts easily. I understand that there are a lot of things to take care of, and it must be hectic at times, it's just something that needs to be paid attention if they choose to, and it can improve the interaction greatly. Because it will come up each time. Like a lot of things, it's perhaps a small detail, but it has implications, and IMO should given a higher priority and attention.

So ease of posting is the company concern, and less so ours as users, and as you said yourself there are plenty of tools to speed it up. BTW, you can easily bookmark a direct link to the announcement section on any phone browser, and from there to the post it's just one click away.

I'm sure that it's also convenient for those that use twitter (from the player base). They get the notifications and what not. But the gripe is that twitter shouldn't be mandatory to get easily updates.
I don't want to use facebook nor twitter in this context, but there is one platform that universally available to all players, and it's the forums. It's the one that provided by the studio, and should have all updates and not only subset.

If tomorrow cryptic decides that all patch notes, dev posts, preview discussions, bug reports, announcement moving to another platform, even a 3d party one, it will be their right and their choice, but while everything is still here, it should be everything, because I think it's reasonable that that we can use one platform and not check a multitude repeatedly.

And so far there is only one official one, and it's the forums. (even bloody customer support send people here). So again, I think it's reasonable to expect everything official to be also available here.

edit:
Btw I refer to official announcement and communication, if someone wants to go "beyond the call of duty" and communicate on any other platform, it's appreciated.
Also if some third party platform is more suitable for some event like reddit AMA, by all means it's a great use of a tool (reddit) and just an announcement that there will be one on the forums is great.

micky1p00 · September 2017

zebular said:

dupeks said:

zebular said:

inyawayupdeep said:
They may not be a third party sites but I think wylonus is correct that this is where comments and game inforation is supposed to be communicated first. Many people don't use Facebook and Twitter and don't want to. When we hear that devs are making excuses that they can't easily post to forums and are using Twitter to relay info to moderators to post to forums. You have problems. If they can access twitter they can access forums, they are just slowin the process.

Facebook and Twitter are nice but forums need to come first.
I'd hazard to say that more people use facebook and twitter than the forums. The forum population is an extremely small number compared to the player base of the game. Most players do not post on gaming forums. Facebook and Twitter are easily accessible via mobile devices and have live notification options for updates and posts by companies. We live in an era of Social Media where you can reach millions of people instantly, and when gaming forums have never truly represented the majority of any MMO's population, Social Media platforms are easily discerned as the go-to-place to quickly post an update for their players.

I'm not saying the forums should be forsaken, just giving reasoning as to why harkening on an assumption that Social Media is not the way to deliver fast updates to a wide-reaching audience is an inherent fallacy of an assumption.

In this great era of Social Media, there are a lot of tools that help with cross-posting on multiple channels, including forums.

I think it would be worthwhile to have someone investigate such a tool, it would probably also cut down on the workload of managing multiple channels individually.
Aye, I've suggested this and said this many times. I went into great detail on this in the last thread about social media posting. Back some 15+ years ago, this propagating technology existed between forums and news sites, and not long after Facebook was born in 2004, the technology existed to do this between sites, forums, and facebook. Now, the technology is integrated into most social media, website, and forum coding. It really is a feature that is not being taken advantage here of and I do not know why.

Yes, and here a quick search
https://blog.vanillaforums.com/news/how-to-integrate-twitter-and-facebook/

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

While I agree with the notion that more people use Twitter and Facebook than Vanillaforums. and that you personally may be more familiar and comfortablle with them and how to navigate in them. Still you need to post first to the forums. It's where we've been told to go for information.
Also your post made it sound like you need to be on your PC to access forums, which is not the case. You can get to forums on your phone.

nitocris83 · September 2017

armadeonx said:
On that point, it would be nice if @rgutscheradev replied on the campaign token thread - he's not commented since making it and it's been 10 days now...

Robert was out of the office. I've tried to convince the Director to not approve any vacations but I got outvoted

kopros666 · September 2017

I completely agree with initial post. -When devs open a thread for upcoming changes on preview (such as RQs or bonding nerfs), and asking for creative feedback from the playerbase, they have to stick around the forum more than once a week, and then disappear.

We have to realize that once the changes go live, they will be there for good. So, devs, please, don't take lightly your players/customers.

All creative counter-opinions and true thoughts of players have to be able to get heard and followed by devs' response at forum. Facebook and Twitter have nothing to do with the interactive discussion before changes go live. Social media are for mass official announcements, right? If I want to provide feedback on some stuff devs want to pass like -let's say- random queues, it is the forum the first place I will and should go, and facebook/twitter the last place where I'd wait for the dev response, right?

By stating that devs prefer to use facebook/twitter for communication instead of forum (for any reason), it's same to my ears that they ignore feedback and take lightly the playerbase.

@zebular <<The forum population is an extremely small number compared to the player base of the game. Most players do not post on gaming forums.>>
Imo, players who really care about the game and feel dedicated to it, they stick to forums more often than social media. 44 pages on bonding thread and 35 pages on random queues' thread indicates that players do use the forum and, last but not least, don't approve the upcoming changes; they want to be heard and offer counter-solutions before they go live and it's too late (let's remember how mod6 took away the majority of epic dungeons and never returned them back, besides the devs' promises - well, that's another topic).

beckylunatic · September 2017

The topic has drifted quite a bit, and those complaints are directed at two separate issues.

Dev participation in feedback threads being sufficient or not is subjective. I'm not going to argue that some players will always want more, or will feel their particular issue hasn't been addressed sufficiently. But devs only have so much time for forum replying, and sometimes can't make the changes players want. Someone's always gonna be unhappy about those.

The devs do not, and never have, used social media as a primary mode of interaction with players about development feedback. This was initially brought up in this thread based on dislike of those mediums, full stop, and a wish that the forums were the only mode of communication, even for announcements (ie. no third party). I think a more valid gripe is the occasional lack of being able to find the same information via all channels, which is what's being addressed in the discussions about automated cross-posting. But it's legit to claim that a huge chunk of players use Twitter, or Facebook, or Reddit, and don't come to these forums. (Also that many just play the game and don't look online for any supplemental info at all. Probably most, tbh.) It happens a ton that players ask questions on Reddit that are easily answered with a forum thread. Some can't come here because they're at work and filtered. Some just want someone else to give them a canned answer because they can't be bothered to look. Happens a ton in game chat. There's huge reliance on tapped-in players disseminating info to the masses, but you can't make those masses look at ANY website if they're not inclined to in the first place.

Ed. PS. Purple monkey dishwasher, right within the confines of this one thread.

niadan · September 2017

Purple monkey dishwasher

Yep...it actually feels as good to post it as is does to read it...maybe even better...TY @beckylunatic

inyawayupdeep · September 2017

Still pretty disappointed with dev response to bonding stone changes, there was one comment from a mod that got involved and gave an opinion but nothing official.

It feels kind of like we were told there was going to be a town meeting to discuss a new tax increase, were led into a big room then the doors were shut behind us. and we talked and discussed all night long only to find out that the Mayor and all the city council members had snuck out the back and hit the bar.

micky1p00 · September 2017

beckylunatic said:

The devs do not, and never have, used social media as a primary mode of interaction with players about development feedback. This was initially brought up in this thread based on dislike of those mediums, full stop, and a wish that the forums were the only mode of communication, even for announcements (ie. no third party). I think a more valid gripe is the occasional lack of being able to find the same information via all channels, which is what's being addressed in the discussions about automated cross-posting. But it's legit to claim that a huge chunk of players use Twitter, or Facebook, or Reddit, and don't come to these forums. (Also that many just play the game and don't look online for any supplemental info at all. Probably most, tbh.) It happens a ton that players ask questions on Reddit that are easily answered with a forum thread. Some can't come here because they're at work and filtered. Some just want someone else to give them a canned answer because they can't be bothered to look. Happens a ton in game chat. There's huge reliance on tapped-in players disseminating info to the masses, but you can't make those masses look at ANY website if they're not inclined to in the first place.

Ed. PS. Purple monkey dishwasher, right within the confines of this one thread.

I can't speak of others, but I'm personally don't bothered if information is cross posted. I don't want the forums to be the only medium. The request is for the forum to be at least the common medium, meaning all the official communications and announcements will have a relevant forum post. If in addition there are twitts, or facebook posts about the same announcements.. the more the merrier. But except "forums is down, we know", I don't see a reason for having a twitter to see server status, a forum presence to see dev posts, and Facebook, to see giveaways (for example).

One forum to find all the info. The rest is bonus for those that want to use those.

flambridge · September 2017

---renove tenacity---

In something, devs hear playerbase at least.

wizardlvl80 · September 2017

nitocris83 said:
Feedback posts have a number of replies from Developers but they tend to get lost in the player comments (1 Dev posting vs multiple players posting) but the Dev Track should be a good place to start when looking for replies on a thread. It's also important to keep in mind that Devs are still working on the game so their time is split.

Please, show me responses from devs on Bonding Runestones changes thread.

therealprotex · September 2017

It doesn't matter that much more players use social media than the forum as long as players are directed to the forum as the official source of information.

It doesn't matter how much easier it is for single developers/employees of Cryptic to post something in social media as long as the forum is the official place to look for information.

It doesn't matter how many people expect to find the latest news at facebook/twitter as long as the launcher clearly states "check the forums for more information".

Devs and moderators where are you?

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