it's pretty bad on ps4. people will sit in zone looking for that second dc for a two dc group for hours instead of picking that third dps that doesn't even need one dc to pull their weight on paingiver. not sure I agree with a complete disabling though. maybe make a system like pvp when you drop group. doing private queue puts you on an hour restriction, and another private queue within the next hour of the restriction coming down adds 2 hours, 3 hours etc.
> @archangelzorak01 said: > You need some better friends. I've done T9G many times on my TR as primary DPS. All 30-35 min. runs.
I think most folks have gone from having hundreds of "friends" to maybe 1 or 2 still left playing the game.
Basically the OP is suggesting a broken solution to fix a legitimate problem that isn't being addressed by the developers.
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
There are alliances and in-game channels that don't care what your class or item level is, and will gladly run with you even if it takes another two minutes to get to the loot.
Private queues are a very nice feature that allow people to play together that want to. Even if you disable private queues, you can still create a queue group and queue publicly with a full party, the downside being that, if someone disconnects, they will be auto-replaced rather than allowing your friend/guildie a chance to reconnect.
Rather than change the system to force people to accept (insert currently underwhelming class), find a group that accepts that you play a class that you enjoy and won't discriminate. There are plenty of non-elitists in the game.
Sorry, but no. I would rather less popular classes get buffed than we'd lose the opportunity to private queue with friends without needing to worry about one of us getting dc'd mid-dungeon and replaced by a random person. Why shouldn't be able to play with friends no matter what class combination that gives us?
Because that very situation is keeping players out of the content, maybe?
No its not, though the changes they are pushing will make it so that very few players run dungeons, which sounds like keeping players out of content.
If players dislike the way partys are formed, & protest by choosing not to run dungeons... that is their choice. If, on the other hand, players wanting to run the content are being excluded from parties because they chose the "wrong" class...
There really is not a wrong class. They all work depending on build. If your friends will not run with you because of your class I would suggest you find different friends.
Moreover, PUG queves discriminate agaist GWF, TR, SW, & HR. If you try to PUG with one of them it will take a while to join a party. If you play a DC, GF, or OP the PUG queve will put you in a dungeon in the blink of an eye. Back in the dark days before the private queve I use to play my DC and OP alot, because of how quick I could join a queve for ESOT. These days with the private queve I play my GWF and TR alot more.
@lukejones77 posted on another thread, link below, some numbers that suggest otherwise.
"Let's forget words and opinions. There's a reasonably typical setup in Nine Gods right now. Do a search under "Find Person" with "Nine Gods", and count the class distribution. You can confirm numbers if you're quick enough:
This is nonsense. I run many times tong with many different classes included tr, sw and dps cw. The point is, to run this end game contennt you need an end game toon. 12k? Go to fbi or msp. 15k but not enough dps? Work harder on your build or consider to change class. Too many dps and you can't find party? As above. When I found party too hardly with gwf I created a gf and then a dc. And guess what? I need a spot? I find it in 1 minute. Remove private queue is the most stupid whining I've heard. Look for a way to get better not for excuses.
I fail to understand, how disabling Private Queue will make people taking you with them.
Neither will people stop preforming groups and running ToNG with 2Tank, 2DC, 1DD (mostly because that combination so far has the greatest chance of success), nor will it make people join the queue alone for random parties (as especially the difficult dungeons need everyone to communicate and know what to do, which does not work with randoms most of the time). .
The reason is that you can't form a 2 tank, 2 DC 1DD party without using private queuing.
The root problem isn't the queuing, it's the class imbalance. Looks like the DEVs gave up trying to balance, and are resorting to a queuing solution of their own - random queuing.
I think the balance should be fixed instead of doing a bad fix to fix a worse problem. In the end you just create a bigger mess to fix.
The point of this approach is that without private queuing you can only take 1 healer and 1 tank. You must take 3 DPS. It would be a huge boost for CW MoFs, since they get to sneak in under the DPS label, and they are actually *the* awesome buff/debuff class (check out that link I posted above guys). Still, until people realize that, it may be easier for Trs, SWs and SS CWs to get into a queue.
I was under the impression, that the random queue only looks for at least 1 Heal and 1 Tank, not exactly one of both, and I remember running several randoms dungeons with constellations like 3xOP + 1xDC + 1xDD.
But even if it would not work, to queue for a dungeon with a premade group of 2xDC, 2xOP and 1xDD, then it still would not solve YOUR problem.
As far, as I understand, your problem is, that no one is willing to take you with them into ToNG, because you can not buff and you do not deal enough damage. Even if a group runs 1xTank, 1xHeal and 3xDD, I see no reason for them to take you with them. Yes, they have 2 more DD slots, but they probably will take better DPS with them.
You proposed change will not force people to take you with them. And even if it would, they still would be able to kick you / leave you alone there and hope for better DDs.
Even if you disable private queues, you can still create a queue group and queue publicly with a full party, the downside being that, if someone disconnects, they will be auto-replaced rather than allowing your friend/guildie a chance to reconnect.
Last I checked, even with a full queue group you can't public-queue with a party that doesn't match the expected spec.
But the OP's complaint that since he doesn't know anyone who wants to run ToNG with him, groups that can finish it easily should be banned? That's just dumb.
This is nonsense. I run many times tong with many different classes included tr, sw and dps cw. The point is, to run this end game contennt you need an end game toon. 12k? Go to fbi or msp. 15k but not enough dps? Work harder on your build or consider to change class. Too many dps and you can't find party? As above. When I found party too hardly with gwf I created a gf and then a dc. And guess what? I need a spot? I find it in 1 minute. Remove private queue is the most stupid whining I've heard. Look for a way to get better not for excuses.
Your post is what's nonsense.
As a CW, even if I outdps almost every GWF, I don't get picked because people HEAVILY discriminate against any dps'er that isn't GWF and HR. I can ask for hours on end in the channels and not get a single invite and when there's someone looking for a dps class, the majority of the time I don't get an answer. I see the same thing for pretty much every CW that post but if it's a GWF, even if it's a 14k with r7? It takes a few minutes and they are in a group.
That issue has nothing to do with the queue. Removing the new and awesome private queue will not help. This is an elitist issue and a class balance issue. The elitism brought in with Mod 10 is truly disturbing.
That's not even elitism. It's sheep mentality, refusal to think outside the box and sheer incompetence from the player base. Asking for high tier players is elitism, asking for specific classes because you THINK every other classes are worthless? that's the player that's being HAMSTER.
Changing class balance wouldn't fix anything. There would just be another new hot class that get all the invites while everyone else is shafted.
Can we just get TR's class changed to HR? I mean this thread talks about how much greater HR's are from a TR's stand point, and HR's are tired of TR's crying, and continuously getting stronger and stronger... give them what they want, make them HR. Start TR from scratch, let the dev's take the time to build it right, to where it isn't EXTREMELY over powered in PVP. To where the class isn't a 1 hit and done. To where everyone in the class doesn't build 1 specific build (that revolves around PVP). To where everyone in the class that's bad can just be an HR and still gripe about not getting in content.
But please please quit messing with the que system. I am tired of carrying 2nd party RMT bots through dungeons because "someone felt excluded" or more like, "someone's bot feels excluded".
I don't want to be forced to run without one of my friends so instead I can run with 2 random bots which I can't kick.
I want to run the dungeons I want to run, without being forced onto some random que.
I don't want to gear up everyone else's mini toon. That's what my guild is for. I help them there. If people want help, join a helpful guild, helpful chat channels... But most that want help, just want to be selfish and improve their toon, not their community.
Changing class balance wouldn't fix anything. There would just be another new hot class that get all the invites while everyone else is shafted.
The problem currently is that the OP/GF/DC/DC/GWF combo is so much overpowered compared to a more classic group composition. If class balance was better the advantage of stacking class X or class Y would be so small that people would not bother.
In a way I am glad this situation has happened, Cryptic has been letting bad class balance pass for a long time. I think they have to do something now. Nerf GWF, boost TR and dps CW, and do something about DC buff stacking.
What makes this double bad is that it is tanks and healers that are doubled-up, and those classes are already in very short supply. So this double tank/heal stacking is making it harder for everyone playing DPS to get into a dungeon at all.
I can ask for hours on end in the channels and not get a single invite and when there's someone looking for a dps class, the majority of the time I don't get an answer
If you asked "for hours"....mmmhhh...no FL/Guilde wotsoever? Attitude?
I don't understand. I do tong 3 to 5 times a day and I play with lots of different classes. That's right 2DC+GF+OP+GWF is well represented but I can say that 50% of my run had SW and I did few runs where the main dps was a TR. 2 days ago I made OP+2DC+SW+TR and we did the dungeon in 34 minutes. That doesn't sound too bad I think. Yesterday our main dps was a CW, which was not the first time either...
I suggest, like other people did, to find some friends, to ask in your alliance, or even better, to make your own party. I don't see why people wouldn't take a TR if the guy knows how to play his class.
And honestly even if you do the 2DC+OP+GF+GWF, if the players are bad, you won't get to the end and won't beat the final boss. I can say that this is the first time we have a dungeon where we need a dps that need to know how to play and just doesn't left click everything like a jackass. At least for the last boss...
Man, if you are a good TR, I don't know why people would not group with you for TONG.
2
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,399Arc User
I don't understand. I do tong 3 to 5 times a day and I play with lots of different classes. That's right 2DC+GF+OP+GWF is well represented but I can say that 50% of my run had SW and I did few runs where the main dps was a TR. 2 days ago I made OP+2DC+SW+TR and we did the dungeon in 34 minutes. That doesn't sound too bad I think. Yesterday our main dps was a CW, which was not the first time either...
I suggest, like other people did, to find some friends, to ask in your alliance, or even better, to make your own party. I don't see why people wouldn't take a TR if the guy knows how to play his class.
And honestly even if you do the 2DC+OP+GF+GWF, if the players are bad, you won't get to the end and won't beat the final boss. I can say that this is the first time we have a dungeon where we need a dps that need to know how to play and just doesn't left click everything like a jackass. At least for the last boss...
Man, if you are a good TR, I don't know why people would not group with you for TONG.
The issue is they don't know if the person is a good TR (or any other class) and how good he is. Since it is about PUG, it is about how to evaluate a stranger. The evaluation is often wrong.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
So went on a PuG run on ToNG, ppl get salty, ppl leave.
And we want to disable private queue? The fact we want random queue with random people like this. Ok bro!
I like to put it out here that Cryptic are serious about getting more people involved, then they need to either:
- Make content easier which will annoy ppl because it will be boring. - Buff certain classes which will make some classes unhappy. - Provide better rewards for more difficult content.
Post edited by zhaker#4665 on
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited September 2017
This is an absolutely horrible idea...even worse than some of the things the developers come up with.
The problem, once again, is that this attempts to "fix" the symptoms of the problem, instead of the underlying cause.
The real fix would be to improve the TRs to allow them to do more damage against single targets, just like they did originally - this would make them sought after in boss fights.
The only issue is that those "improvements" should probably be disabled or reduced in PvP to avoid creating an imbalance there.
That issue has nothing to do with the queue. Removing the new and awesome private queue will not help. This is an elitist issue and a class balance issue. The elitism brought in with Mod 10 is truly disturbing.
That's not even elitism. It's sheep mentality, refusal to think outside the box and sheer incompetence from the player base. Asking for high tier players is elitism, asking for specific classes because you THINK every other classes are worthless? that's the player that's being HAMSTER.
Changing class balance wouldn't fix anything. There would just be another new hot class that get all the invites while everyone else is shafted.
Well not exactly. A lot of this started because the chances of getting decent (not even good) rewards are so low you need to speed run the dungeons so folks are looking for optimal groups to minimize run time. Back in the day (original CN runs where you were guaranteed a sellable item for the group) when the rewards were a little better than today it wasn't as bad.
I have been reading this thread and I must say it is interesting as my 2 mains are CW and SW, I generally play with a good friend of mine whose main is a TR - however we are not yet ready to tackle ToNG it does make me wonder whether we will experience this same problem once we get there? Luckily for me though I have created a MoF Buffer CW in one of my slots as well as a Healock so I might be ok but she simply does not have that much versatility with her TR. To all the posters saying "Just start a new class bla bla" I don't think you understand that some players actually have invested a lot of time (maybe not as much as some as work and real life does also happen) in their character so have a fair bit of affection for them so should not be forced to abandon their toon just to play the game.
Having said that though - I do find it interesting that people are accused of being elitist just because they want to play they game their way - even if this means wanting to run the perfect group for a dungeon, surely this is their choice? And if they have worked their tails off to build the perfect character, surely the reward is to become part of the top tier who are able to run TonG or other end game dungeons, they have earned it? Why should they be forced to carry others or not enjoy their game?
There is a reason why the rich in life want to be around other similarly rich people, it is because they have similar mindsets - "Birds of a feather flock together" I believe the phrase is which describes this behavior.
I honestly believe that if you want to experience this game properly you do need to join a helpful & friendly guild who is part of a larger alliance and simply ask in the chat if anyone would assist in running a dungeon - I have experienced FBI (yes I am not even ready for this yet:)) only due to the awesome guild / alliance I am part of - I cannot say I enjoyed it because I was squished just about all the time which was a very humbling experience, but I am pretty sure that if I did want to torment myself again I could easily get in just by asking.
One last point - with regards to the TR, I do think it needs a bit of a PVE buff but this will probably break PVP as for me TR and/or GF are a plague in PVP but even with her having higher / better gear (because I spend time building two classes where she only mains one), I am easily out DPS'ing her due to my AoE DPS on trash which does frustrate her which sucks.
Anyway just thought I would add my two pennies. Enjoy your day and happy farming to all.
Comments
> You need some better friends. I've done T9G many times on my TR as primary DPS. All 30-35 min. runs.
I think most folks have gone from having hundreds of "friends" to maybe 1 or 2 still left playing the game.
Basically the OP is suggesting a broken solution to fix a legitimate problem that isn't being addressed by the developers.
Private queues are a very nice feature that allow people to play together that want to. Even if you disable private queues, you can still create a queue group and queue publicly with a full party, the downside being that, if someone disconnects, they will be auto-replaced rather than allowing your friend/guildie a chance to reconnect.
Rather than change the system to force people to accept (insert currently underwhelming class), find a group that accepts that you play a class that you enjoy and won't discriminate. There are plenty of non-elitists in the game.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
every mmo I have ever played, if you wanted to get into end game runs.. you had to at least have a marginal ok build and a marginal ok gear set up.
its just the way it is..
"Let's forget words and opinions. There's a reasonably typical setup in Nine Gods right now. Do a search under "Find Person" with "Nine Gods", and count the class distribution.
You can confirm numbers if you're quick enough:
21 DCs
13 GWFs
11 Palies
4 Mof CWs
3 GFs
3 SW
0 TR
0 HR
0 DPS CW"
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234075/too-discriminated-against-to-consider-spending-money-on-the-game
12k? Go to fbi or msp.
15k but not enough dps? Work harder on your build or consider to change class.
Too many dps and you can't find party? As above.
When I found party too hardly with gwf I created a gf and then a dc. And guess what? I need a spot? I find it in 1 minute.
Remove private queue is the most stupid whining I've heard. Look for a way to get better not for excuses.
I was under the impression, that the random queue only looks for at least 1 Heal and 1 Tank, not exactly one of both, and I remember running several randoms dungeons with constellations like 3xOP + 1xDC + 1xDD.
But even if it would not work, to queue for a dungeon with a premade group of 2xDC, 2xOP and 1xDD, then it still would not solve YOUR problem.
As far, as I understand, your problem is, that no one is willing to take you with them into ToNG, because you can not buff and you do not deal enough damage. Even if a group runs 1xTank, 1xHeal and 3xDD, I see no reason for them to take you with them. Yes, they have 2 more DD slots, but they probably will take better DPS with them.
You proposed change will not force people to take you with them. And even if it would, they still would be able to kick you / leave you alone there and hope for better DDs.
But the OP's complaint that since he doesn't know anyone who wants to run ToNG with him, groups that can finish it easily should be banned? That's just dumb.
As a CW, even if I outdps almost every GWF, I don't get picked because people HEAVILY discriminate against any dps'er that isn't GWF and HR. I can ask for hours on end in the channels and not get a single invite and when there's someone looking for a dps class, the majority of the time I don't get an answer. I see the same thing for pretty much every CW that post but if it's a GWF, even if it's a 14k with r7? It takes a few minutes and they are in a group.
Saying "reroll class" is a HAMSTER answer.
Changing class balance wouldn't fix anything. There would just be another new hot class that get all the invites while everyone else is shafted.
But please please quit messing with the que system. I am tired of carrying 2nd party RMT bots through dungeons because "someone felt excluded" or more like, "someone's bot feels excluded".
I don't want to be forced to run without one of my friends so instead I can run with 2 random bots which I can't kick.
I want to run the dungeons I want to run, without being forced onto some random que.
I don't want to gear up everyone else's mini toon. That's what my guild is for. I help them there. If people want help, join a helpful guild, helpful chat channels... But most that want help, just want to be selfish and improve their toon, not their community.
In a way I am glad this situation has happened, Cryptic has been letting bad class balance pass for a long time. I think they have to do something now. Nerf GWF, boost TR and dps CW, and do something about DC buff stacking.
What makes this double bad is that it is tanks and healers that are doubled-up, and those classes are already in very short supply. So this double tank/heal stacking is making it harder for everyone playing DPS to get into a dungeon at all.
I do tong 3 to 5 times a day and I play with lots of different classes.
That's right 2DC+GF+OP+GWF is well represented but I can say that 50% of my run had SW and I did few runs where the main dps was a TR.
2 days ago I made OP+2DC+SW+TR and we did the dungeon in 34 minutes. That doesn't sound too bad I think.
Yesterday our main dps was a CW, which was not the first time either...
I suggest, like other people did, to find some friends, to ask in your alliance, or even better, to make your own party.
I don't see why people wouldn't take a TR if the guy knows how to play his class.
And honestly even if you do the 2DC+OP+GF+GWF, if the players are bad, you won't get to the end and won't beat the final boss. I can say that this is the first time we have a dungeon where we need a dps that need to know how to play and just doesn't left click everything like a jackass. At least for the last boss...
Man, if you are a good TR, I don't know why people would not group with you for TONG.
Since it is about PUG, it is about how to evaluate a stranger. The evaluation is often wrong.
And we want to disable private queue? The fact we want random queue with random people like this. Ok bro!
I like to put it out here that Cryptic are serious about getting more people involved, then they need to either:
- Make content easier which will annoy ppl because it will be boring.
- Buff certain classes which will make some classes unhappy.
- Provide better rewards for more difficult content.
The problem, once again, is that this attempts to "fix" the symptoms of the problem, instead of the underlying cause.
The real fix would be to improve the TRs to allow them to do more damage against single targets, just like they did originally - this would make them sought after in boss fights.
The only issue is that those "improvements" should probably be disabled or reduced in PvP to avoid creating an imbalance there.
Having said that though - I do find it interesting that people are accused of being elitist just because they want to play they game their way - even if this means wanting to run the perfect group for a dungeon, surely this is their choice? And if they have worked their tails off to build the perfect character, surely the reward is to become part of the top tier who are able to run TonG or other end game dungeons, they have earned it? Why should they be forced to carry others or not enjoy their game?
There is a reason why the rich in life want to be around other similarly rich people, it is because they have similar mindsets - "Birds of a feather flock together" I believe the phrase is which describes this behavior.
I honestly believe that if you want to experience this game properly you do need to join a helpful & friendly guild who is part of a larger alliance and simply ask in the chat if anyone would assist in running a dungeon - I have experienced FBI (yes I am not even ready for this yet:)) only due to the awesome guild / alliance I am part of - I cannot say I enjoyed it because I was squished just about all the time which was a very humbling experience, but I am pretty sure that if I did want to torment myself again I could easily get in just by asking.
One last point - with regards to the TR, I do think it needs a bit of a PVE buff but this will probably break PVP as for me TR and/or GF are a plague in PVP but even with her having higher / better gear (because I spend time building two classes where she only mains one), I am easily out DPS'ing her due to my AoE DPS on trash which does frustrate her which sucks.
Anyway just thought I would add my two pennies. Enjoy your day and happy farming to all.