Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
0
architect40Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 20Arc User
edited September 2017
This will hurt players more than it helps, that's for damn sure!
I play my main toon for fun, ad bonus on dungeon runs is secondary. I typically have plenty of rad not refined. I play my alts to earn ad to rank up my main. If I can't effectively earn ad on my alts what's the point? Another pay wall in place. It also makes vip pretty much mandatory for the keys. Getting those r14s seems pretty elusive at this point.
Keep ad rewards in regular ques. Ad extra rewards in random ques. Epic random needs to be divided into t1, t2, t3... Skirmishes may also need to be divided. Bonus for playing needed roles needs to be much higher to be any incentive at all. 1000ad please that's an insult.
This is a poorly implemented idea. All players are going to feel the ad hurt from this.
Nobody will soon forget Mod 12b. The Mod of nerfs. RIP NW.
What does Littlefinger say about playing a little game, "what is the worst reason for an apparant decision". Is it as simple as they are purposely killing this game so that when they release their new free to play MMORPG, people will move to it? That seems a more logical explanation to all these player hostile changes especially when they were making such good progress on Mod 12A.
As a DC i can tell you right away, random quing for MSP, FBI or TONG is not going to work. Mainly cos people are not going to be able to finish it. TONG is not a 30 min run. MSP is also not a 30 min run. When we do this dungeons we carefully choose people and examine their stats to the fullest. And still some groups do not finish it. At all. 2 DC's for TONG is a must have... unless you wanna be stuck there for 9 hours ... and not finish it at all.
( I am seriously not trying to be a party pooper. It may seem like it but i seriously am trying to contribute. General population is not so high and mighty as Devs may think. I mean some pug groups struggle with ELOL still. And it is a T1 ..... )
@araneax Tbh, it's not that simple, as I've done a run with no DCs whatsoever, but pally, either MoF CW or GF and a templock. The goal is to have one buffer, one debuffer, one healer and 2x DPS. It was much slower than my usual run. The thing is, top tiers will be even further away as top tiers compared to what they're at now. They're trying to bring them closer together so there's not much of a difference between top and mid tier, but they did the exact opposite, and that's gonna show in the random queues.
This whole idea is a non-starter for me. I will not be running any random dungeons or skirmishes...period. Part of the remaining enjoyment I get from this game is choosing which piece of content I will play next. Letting NW RNG decide for me is simply never going to happen. The devs can feel free to adjust their incentives for joining a random content queue any way they like, it will have no affect on my choice to never bother.
6
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,456Arc User
This whole idea is a non-starter for me. I will not be running any random dungeons or skirmishes...period. Part of the remaining enjoyment I get from this game is choosing which piece of content I will play next. Letting NW RNG decide for me is simply never going to happen. The devs can feel free to adjust their incentives for joining a random content queue any way they like, it will have no affect on my choice to never bother.
Same here.
First, I don't PUG.
Second, since I do private party, the party decides where we go based on the capability and need (e.g. SH quest is xyz, we go xyz).
Third, the party formation and dungeon choice are also based on time constraint of each individual. If we know we are going to FBI, it will take ~X minutes. If we go to eTOS, it will take ~Y minutes.
If AD is nerf'ed from what we used to do, so be it. I personally won't be actively going for random queue unless the party feels 'adventurous' (but that has less to do with the AD incentive).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I think, that I will have to use random que on my alts. They cant enter FBI or MSP.
Furthermore, if you really want to implement this, then implement a min IL for ALL skirmishes. I leave every group with players under 1k IL and I dont run with a bunch of 5k IL players, period. You may call me elitist, but my time is limited and I cant be bothered, to waste it on some ppl farming RAD with alts, who dont even have the decency, to slap some enchants on their chars. My LS alts have more then 5k IL without guild boons, campain boons, weapon or armor enchant. 5k is easy to gain on a char, that you want to play and 1k is an insult to your fellow players.
I want to chime in here although other players have summed up nicely all the things that are wrong with this idea.
The worst thing for me is that, on top of not being able to choose dungeons/skirms/trials I happen to have keys for or want to farm for some specific reward, I cannot even choose what kind of time commitment I want to make...elol is a very short affair even in the worst pug possible, mspc or fbi however...if I have 30 minutes before I have to go to bed or run off to work I am not going to fail around forever with a random group in those dungeons...it is just utterly ABSURD! And entering this queue only with a well made premade on the off-chance that fbi or mspc will pop up would be quite nonsensical, too. Not to mention (at least partly) defeating the purpose of this queue...-_- Equally absurd is this idea that you want to reward me only for ONE epic dungeon...the second would have to be a baby dungeon...seriously? Did I understand this correctly??? Good grief.
Of course there´s so many more things wrong with this queue...but others have pointed it all out already - no use repeating it all. The funny thing is that - all in all- I think that you will foster burn-out and frustration magnificently with this queue...more than anything else. Even players who will choose to ignore it completely will be frustrated due to the loss of ad income that slows their progression. Not to mention those new players or players of alts you want to "motivate" to progress their characters...by making them gear up to 11k IL and unlock FBI before they get some rAD for offing baby-Lostmauth...yea, well ok. That´s just hilarious. So my new thesis is that you were just trying to be funny here.
Some have made sensible alternative suggestions...but in fact I think this idea is so horrifyingly bad that it has to be put in the wastepaper bin. Then start anew. Or not. You could do something else that will actually enhance players´ gaming experience instead.
As someone who has multiple alts and enjoys playing on them, this is a nightmare. Removing the daily AD from people who don't want to be stuck in a horrible dungeon or skirmish (and there are a few) it removes daily AD for me. No RAD means less progression. Less progression means less interest in continuing a game that's already choked progression. I want to be able to public Q a preferred dungeon and skirmish and actually enjoy my time playing.
I think eDemo it was also a case of once unlocked on one character unlocked on all characters.
Nope, you have to fork over 100 Faerzress to unlock it on any character after the first one, however you get a Greater Demonic key as well...
Yes, the big savings for alts is you don't have to fill the bar up to that point to do so, so you can do it after a couple of HEs or whatever, and I think it's almost instant completion too.
the loss here is the bonus AD from running the skirmishes/dungeons/epic dungeons/etc.
I check across all my alts.. and found the following...
main gwf = everything unlocked, including TONG grd ftr alt = missing only MSP and TONG.. still working through river district and chult DC alt = not started SKT nor river district nor Chult OP alt = not started SKT nor river district nor chult. Also do not have shores of tuern unlocked in dragon campaign. HR Alt = not started SKT nor river district nor chult
various other alts = not worth mentioning.
summary for me personally: main - can random que for anything grd ftr alt - locked out of random queue for epic dungeon, and Herioc Accord DC Alt - locked out of random queue for epic dungeon and Herioc Accord OP alt - locked out of random queue for skimish, epic dungeon, and Herioc Accord HR Alt - locked out of random queue for Epic dungeon and herioc acccord.
other alts - whatever.
In a nut shell--- if you have everything unlocked you can get bonus AD and the dungeon drops. This is the Most Important Point!!
if you are not complete with campaigns.. them you will only get AD from whatever is salvagable from the boss loot chests.
Sooo... regular AD from dungeon drops will still be there.
Bonus AD will not be there until you complete the campaigns to unlock various dungeons.
In addition, the queue requirements will be set per the higher dungeons in the queue.
Is somewhat UGH at needing 11K ilvl to run a random queue, then have Valindra/Malabog/ELOL be the one that pops.
Being clear on this.... yes my playstyle does not involve running copious amounts of dungeons/etc. But it is bad form to basically lock people out of bonus AD because they have just started SKT/River District/etc and simply do not have FBI/MSP unlocked yet.
Post edited by baeyorn on
2
kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
as things stand, I'll probably just run only private/channel/alliance runs with my alts/mains. If I don't get the AD bonus, so be it. I will not be coerced into this.
wwhat's awesome is this change is because we're all precious snowflakes who might get bored doing the same thing over and over again. (as i rescue templars and kill 30 batari and undeadfor the10th time today)
5
architect40Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 20Arc User
> @baeyorn said: > > Sooo... regular AD from dungeon drops will still be there. > >
What regular Ad? There will only be salvage for your alts and you can do that on your main much easier and transfer to alt. Don't need to even build the alt up as long as they can salvage. See how much work they are saving you? Seriously, you should be greatfull!
As a semi-new 70th player I'm screwed by these changes. And so is all new 70th players. I have a 9.5k IL and do not have all the campaigns done so now I'll have to go back to pre-70th level content to make any bonus RAD? What was the point of getting to level 70 then? And I can absolutely guarantee you one thing if you make it to where I have to play PVP to get ahead in this game then I will go back to Skyrim.
There is absolutely no way this is good for mid-range players. Basically you are blocking all of your new 70th level players from gaining one of the biggest rewards that they need to build their character.
How many newly 70th characters have every campaign done and have a 11k IL? None.
So now you are telling your newly 70th level players congratulations on reaching 70th here is some new content but you aren't good enough to get bonuses from it. And you think the disparity from end game players to no non-end game players is going to be helped by cutting the amount of RAD non-end game players can make in half. Did Seattle legalize weed? Because you have to be high on something.
P. S. (Not to mention you just took away all the daily RAD bonuses for dungeons for characters below 54th level. Because Caverns of Karrundax is min 54th level and the last non-epic dungeon. How is that good?) Edit: Found out level does not count.
@araneax Tbh, it's not that simple, as I've done a run with no DCs whatsoever, but pally, either MoF CW or GF and a templock. The goal is to have one buffer, one debuffer, one healer and 2x DPS. It was much slower than my usual run. The thing is, top tiers will be even further away as top tiers compared to what they're at now. They're trying to bring them closer together so there's not much of a difference between top and mid tier, but they did the exact opposite, and that's gonna show in the random queues.
I have to admit. I did not have such an experience. I did try a few guild / friends run with just once dc, trying to get our SWs and TRs to try it out, but that did not go so well and my guildies got frustrated to the point of abandoning it for a few days. ( We try to have everyone optimistic, if it did not work the first time, or 5th time, it will work 100 time XD )
We all also do not have our skills on the same level. Some are still very new and learning and some have a different way of looking at the dungeons and what needs to be done.
I can understand fully that the goal should be to have an optimal party. I am not saying it can not be done. I am sure there is plenty of players who can do it. I am aware some people are already speed running Tong and stuff.
But usually party composition changes to what benefits the party the best. Even LFG lately , at least what i have seen , my personal experience , 1 AC and 1 DO, pally or GF and GWF is a must, and random high dps, for , MSP , TONG , or FBI.. It is easier i guess ? I do not see a point in overusing the GWf like that, but it is what people ask for.
Personally i would love to see better compositions and more random classes doing it. But it is just is not so. And it is not their fault too. Devs should know this classes need some love.
This change is a neat idea, but the implementation is going to gut most people's AD generation, ESPECIALLY newer players who need it the most. As others have said, you should keep current dungeon/skirmish AD as is, but make the new system add ON TOP of that.
As for the leaving penalty. I have had a couple of Lostmauth runs where I left because at 8.5k and 9k (at the times) I was the highest IL as a DPS SW. There was absolutely no way the group could get past the scorpions, and we tried many times. The tank could not hold agro because I was doing to much damage. Just because you can get into a dungeon does not mean that a group of min IL can complete it. FBI and MSVA are even worse. That is why we have been wanting the current dungeons reset to have a tier system for difficulty and rewards based in the average party IL.
Just a brief thought on how this random queue will not prevail for end-gamers..actualy highend players can finish etos within 5 min, with the possibility to loot 3 salvagables ítems in a single run (~12k). But lets consider we arent lucky and we are recieving only one salv piece during the dg (~4-5k). Considering that, we can estimate a income of 20k within 20mins.
Why would they risk running a random for the same amount of ad and take a entire hour for that?
Even if you decrease the value of the ítems, the analisys on a long period would still be favorable for repeating dgs for salvage then risking the pug for the daily bonus RAD.
If you rather decrease the drop rate of these salvagable items and obligate endgamers to use their keys to get one, then you will make the game harder then it is already, for starting/mid players to progress. Consequently you will see a increase on the number of players who give up from the game before reaching the end.
I'm willing to swallow that you are cheating me out of a skirmish a day, but the leaver penalty and the prerequisites are poorly thought out. People know very quickly if a trial is beatable. So now I have to sit in tiamat and wait for the twenty minute duration to end when over half the people jump ship? Or lose to a dungeon boss over and over when the group can't complete? You need to add a vote to abandon option for everything in the random queues. My other issue is the prerequisites. Most of my guildies haven't unlocked msp or FBI. So now we can't earn ad together? You should let people random que for whatever they have. Different dungeons have different gear scores for a reason.
Speaking as the head of a low level but happy little guild, plodding along slowly, mainly struggling for Dungeoneers Shards, I've got to say that the proposed change will put our progression into a coma. I struggle to get my players, who are not in the heady ranks of pepped up demigods who run eToS in five minutes (and many struggle on the Underdark Skirmishes) to do the daily cleric quest, and basically telling them that they're not going to get any AD unless we queue in the random section and drop lucky will be plenty sufficient for them to just politely decline.
Why on Gods green Earth do you want to mend something that isn't broken?
Most players have a good idea of how long each queue content takes them. So depending on their available time, (let's go ahead and assume that not everyone ha 24 hour a day access... and may from time to time have air breathing lives to lead) people either have to play for no AD, or not play, if they don't have the time to play the longest material they are specced for.
I have lots of time and access, but it's broken into lots of short periods throughout the day and a longer stretch in the evenings.
So now, to run my characters through daily cleric quests to help my guild I'm screwed on my primary source of RAD. Because I simply don't have time to run the high end dungeons I'm likely to get dropped into.
If I do have time to do more than the cleric runs, I base my choice on what keys my characters currently have at their disposal. With this change I won't have the time to run a full daily compliment of zone based campaign dailies to ensure I have keys for ALL the potential dungeons I might end up in.
So I'm going to have to spend my now limited ADs on Zen to buy dragon keys in the hope of... oh... wait... now I get it.
So let's do some math and see if this is better. (I'm being Cryptic used Common Core math to figure this out.)
Current daily RAD for characters 54th level and below.
Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000 PvP 3000 x 2 = 6000 Total = 15000 RAD possible
New system. (0 RAD possible because they don't qualify for all the dungeons yet. And can't do Skirmishes yet (they wouldn't qualify for all of them even if they could). (maybe 5000 for PvP because I don't know how that works, never did it or going to do it.)
Pretty sure that is a whole lot less.) Edit: Found out level does not count. So correction is:
Dungeon 4000 PvP 5000 Total = 9000 RAD possible
Still a lot less.
Current daily RAD for characters 70th level without completing all campaigns through mod 11 and/or with IL below 11000.
Skirmish 2250 x 2 = 4500 Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000 PvP 3000 X 2 = 6000 Total = 19500 RAD possible
New system.
Skirmish 3000 Dungeon 4000 PvP 5000 Total = 12000 RAD possible
Better but still less.
Current daily RAD for end game players (70th level with all campaigns through mod 11 done and greater than 11000 IL).
Skirmish 2250 x 2 = 4500 Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000 PvP 3000 x 2 = 6000 Total = 19500 RAD possible
New system.
Skirmish 3000 Dungeon 4000 Epic Dungeon 5000 Epic Trial 3000 PvP 5000 Total = 20000 RAD possible.
More, barely.
Current daily RAD for end game players (70th level with all campaigns through mod 12 done and greater than 12000 IL).
Skirmish 2250 x 2 = 4500 Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000 PvP 3000 x 2 = 6000 Total = 19500 RAD possible
New system.
Skirmish 3000 Dungeon 4000 Epic Dungeon 5000 Epic Trial 3000 Hero’s Accord 5000 PvP 5000 Total = 25000 RAD possible
So I dare you to explain how that helps new and midrange players at all and stops the widening gap between player levels? Only the top 10% of players will see an increase in possible RAD.
I dare you to explain how that doesn't hurt the low and midrange players too?
Note PvP amount is getting a huge increase where dungeons are getting a cut. The only cut is dungeons. That is why I made the comment earlier about going back to Skyrim if we are forced to play PvP to get a head. I'm going to go from 13500 RAD a day to 7000 RAD a day because of this. Yeah thanks for all your help. (please be sure to read that last line the the Mt Everest amount of sarcasm that it was written with)
Seriously, if this random queue thing was an addition to the existing system (with the current reward structure remaining intact) I would consider it a brilliant idea. Altruistic players offering to go where needed for a few extra AD... Fantastic! Great idea, well done guys.
Let me give you a for instance as to why this will cause more problems than it will solve. My GF is technically eligible for Castle Never. He scrapes by the IL requirement by a couple of hundred points. He's a third tier character, so not all the stuff on his sheet is the most suitable for a top notch Tank... most of my resources go to my main two. So a lot of what he has is "make do and mend". There's no way he's tanking Orcus. He can hold his own on eToS, and a couple of others but struggles like hell with Twin Fire Scorpions on pugs if the rest of the party aren't working well and are under the misapprehension that "hey... you're a Tank... you should be able to soak ALL that HAMSTER up, you're here to SUPPORT me, not the other way round" (cos... I hate to be the one to tell you, but some players can be a little bit selfish.). If he queues random dungeons and drops Castle Never, unless he's lucky and picks up four REALLY buff characters, that run is likely to be doomed from the outset. And if it is a success, chances are my participation would be negligible. That's loads of fun...
As it stands, when I've got spare time, I queue him in all the lists he can realistically Tank, has chest keys for, and that I have enough time to run.
But I'm afraid my gaming needs to fit around my circumstances, not the other way round.
3
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited September 2017
Here is why I will (almost) never be using random queues for dungeons
When I run a dungeon it is either for my own benefit or to help out guild/alliance members.
"For my own benefit" is currently pretty much limited to CN (as I still need one achievement from there) and ToNG (for the seals I need to buy the IL 500 equipment I want). There is pretty much nothing in any of the other dungeons that I want, so I see no personal benefit in doing them. Now I can run CN with a PUG, and I have done that a few times, but I prefer not to. ToNG is simply not feasible for a PUG - you need a well-balanced, high-IL or highly skilled group for a smooth run.
Now, I obviously would never select a random queue, hoping to get into CN, but it would actually work for ToNG - get a good 5-man party together and "random queue" for any of the highest tier dungons - and as ToNG is the only one, we would be guaranteed to end up there, and get a small "Random queue" bonus.
Yeah, that's not what the random dungeon queues are intended for - but that's all they are good for.
Now, when "helping out guild alliance members", the random queues are not much good either. The people that really need the AD bonus are those still gearing up - they typically have lower IL and may not have unlocked all the dungeons, so they cannot use the random queues anyhow.
So, let's assume I can find a group of guild-alliance members that have unlocked all the dungeons, and are willing to run a random one. Do we want to run the risk of ending up in a dungeon that several people barely qualify for, where the run might take an hour or two - if we manage to finish at all? What if someone has only limited time - could have joined for a quick dungeon, but does not have the time for a long one? It's just not going to work.
Skirmishes, on the other hand - I mostly PUG for them anyhow so just joining a random skirmish queue is not going to make much of a difference to me. None of them have anything interesting to offer, but they are quick and easy, so yea....I can see myself using a random skirmish queue....but dungeons, no way.
Comments
https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1234130/module-12b-preview-patch-notes-nw-90-20170828a-3
Campaign Acceleration for Alts
Players who complete a campaign will now have access to an item they can give to an alternate character on the same account. This item should significantly speed up that character's progression through the campaign, often through discounted currency costs or increased reputation gains.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I play my main toon for fun, ad bonus on dungeon runs is secondary. I typically have plenty of rad not refined. I play my alts to earn ad to rank up my main. If I can't effectively earn ad on my alts what's the point? Another pay wall in place. It also makes vip pretty much mandatory for the keys. Getting those r14s seems pretty elusive at this point.
Keep ad rewards in regular ques. Ad extra rewards in random ques. Epic random needs to be divided into t1, t2, t3... Skirmishes may also need to be divided. Bonus for playing needed roles needs to be much higher to be any incentive at all. 1000ad please that's an insult.
This is a poorly implemented idea. All players are going to feel the ad hurt from this.
Nobody will soon forget Mod 12b. The Mod of nerfs. RIP NW.
What does Littlefinger say about playing a little game, "what is the worst reason for an apparant decision". Is it as simple as they are purposely killing this game so that when they release their new free to play MMORPG, people will move to it? That seems a more logical explanation to all these player hostile changes especially when they were making such good progress on Mod 12A.
Mainly cos people are not going to be able to finish it.
TONG is not a 30 min run. MSP is also not a 30 min run.
When we do this dungeons we carefully choose people and examine their stats to the fullest.
And still some groups do not finish it. At all.
2 DC's for TONG is a must have... unless you wanna be stuck there for 9 hours ... and not finish it at all.
( I am seriously not trying to be a party pooper. It may seem like it but i seriously am trying to contribute. General population is not so high and mighty as Devs may think. I mean some pug groups struggle with ELOL still. And it is a T1 ..... )
Tbh, it's not that simple, as I've done a run with no DCs whatsoever, but pally, either MoF CW or GF and a templock. The goal is to have one buffer, one debuffer, one healer and 2x DPS. It was much slower than my usual run.
The thing is, top tiers will be even further away as top tiers compared to what they're at now. They're trying to bring them closer together so there's not much of a difference between top and mid tier, but they did the exact opposite, and that's gonna show in the random queues.
First, I don't PUG.
Second, since I do private party, the party decides where we go based on the capability and need (e.g. SH quest is xyz, we go xyz).
Third, the party formation and dungeon choice are also based on time constraint of each individual. If we know we are going to FBI, it will take ~X minutes. If we go to eTOS, it will take ~Y minutes.
If AD is nerf'ed from what we used to do, so be it. I personally won't be actively going for random queue unless the party feels 'adventurous' (but that has less to do with the AD incentive).
Furthermore, if you really want to implement this, then implement a min IL for ALL skirmishes. I leave every group with players under 1k IL and I dont run with a bunch of 5k IL players, period. You may call me elitist, but my time is limited and I cant be bothered, to waste it on some ppl farming RAD with alts, who dont even have the decency, to slap some enchants on their chars. My LS alts have more then 5k IL without guild boons, campain boons, weapon or armor enchant. 5k is easy to gain on a char, that you want to play and 1k is an insult to your fellow players.
The worst thing for me is that, on top of not being able to choose dungeons/skirms/trials I happen to have keys for or want to farm for some specific reward, I cannot even choose what kind of time commitment I want to make...elol is a very short affair even in the worst pug possible, mspc or fbi however...if I have 30 minutes before I have to go to bed or run off to work I am not going to fail around forever with a random group in those dungeons...it is just utterly ABSURD! And entering this queue only with a well made premade on the off-chance that fbi or mspc will pop up would be quite nonsensical, too. Not to mention (at least partly) defeating the purpose of this queue...-_-
Equally absurd is this idea that you want to reward me only for ONE epic dungeon...the second would have to be a baby dungeon...seriously? Did I understand this correctly??? Good grief.
Of course there´s so many more things wrong with this queue...but others have pointed it all out already - no use repeating it all.
The funny thing is that - all in all- I think that you will foster burn-out and frustration magnificently with this queue...more than anything else. Even players who will choose to ignore it completely will be frustrated due to the loss of ad income that slows their progression. Not to mention those new players or players of alts you want to "motivate" to progress their characters...by making them gear up to 11k IL and unlock FBI before they get some rAD for offing baby-Lostmauth...yea, well ok. That´s just hilarious. So my new thesis is that you were just trying to be funny here.
Some have made sensible alternative suggestions...but in fact I think this idea is so horrifyingly bad that it has to be put in the wastepaper bin. Then start anew. Or not. You could do something else that will actually enhance players´ gaming experience instead.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
the loss here is the bonus AD from running the skirmishes/dungeons/epic dungeons/etc.
I check across all my alts.. and found the following...
main gwf = everything unlocked, including TONG
grd ftr alt = missing only MSP and TONG.. still working through river district and chult
DC alt = not started SKT nor river district nor Chult
OP alt = not started SKT nor river district nor chult.
Also do not have shores of tuern unlocked in dragon campaign.
HR Alt = not started SKT nor river district nor chult
various other alts = not worth mentioning.
summary for me personally:
main - can random que for anything
grd ftr alt - locked out of random queue for epic dungeon, and Herioc Accord
DC Alt - locked out of random queue for epic dungeon and Herioc Accord
OP alt - locked out of random queue for skimish, epic dungeon, and Herioc Accord
HR Alt - locked out of random queue for Epic dungeon and herioc acccord.
other alts - whatever.
In a nut shell---
if you have everything unlocked you can get bonus AD and the dungeon drops. This is the Most Important Point!!
if you are not complete with campaigns.. them you will only get AD from whatever is salvagable from the boss loot chests.
Sooo... regular AD from dungeon drops will still be there.
Bonus AD will not be there until you complete the campaigns to unlock various dungeons.
In addition, the queue requirements will be set per the higher dungeons in the queue.
Is somewhat UGH at needing 11K ilvl to run a random queue, then have Valindra/Malabog/ELOL be the one that pops.
Being clear on this.... yes my playstyle does not involve running copious amounts of dungeons/etc. But it is bad form to basically lock people out of bonus AD because they have just started SKT/River District/etc and simply do not have FBI/MSP unlocked yet.
>
> Sooo... regular AD from dungeon drops will still be there.
>
>
What regular Ad? There will only be salvage for your alts and you can do that on your main much easier and transfer to alt. Don't need to even build the alt up as long as they can salvage. See how much work they are saving you? Seriously, you should be greatfull!
There is absolutely no way this is good for mid-range players. Basically you are blocking all of your new 70th level players from gaining one of the biggest rewards that they need to build their character.
How many newly 70th characters have every campaign done and have a 11k IL? None.
So now you are telling your newly 70th level players congratulations on reaching 70th here is some new content but you aren't good enough to get bonuses from it. And you think the disparity from end game players to no non-end game players is going to be helped by cutting the amount of RAD non-end game players can make in half. Did Seattle legalize weed? Because you have to be high on something.
P. S. (Not to mention you just took away all the daily RAD bonuses for dungeons for characters below 54th level. Because Caverns of Karrundax is min 54th level and the last non-epic dungeon. How is that good?) Edit: Found out level does not count.
I did try a few guild / friends run with just once dc, trying to get our SWs and TRs to try it out, but that did not go so well and my guildies got frustrated to the point of abandoning it for a few days. ( We try to have everyone optimistic, if it did not work the first time, or 5th time, it will work 100 time XD )
We all also do not have our skills on the same level.
Some are still very new and learning and some have a different way of looking at the dungeons and what needs to be done.
I can understand fully that the goal should be to have an optimal party. I am not saying it can not be done. I am sure there is plenty of players who can do it. I am aware some people are already speed running Tong and stuff.
But usually party composition changes to what benefits the party the best.
Even LFG lately , at least what i have seen , my personal experience , 1 AC and 1 DO, pally or GF and GWF is a must, and random high dps, for , MSP , TONG , or FBI.. It is easier i guess ?
I do not see a point in overusing the GWf like that, but it is what people ask for.
Personally i would love to see better compositions and more random classes doing it. But it is just is not so. And it is not their fault too. Devs should know this classes need some love.
Why would they risk running a random for the same amount of ad and take a entire hour for that?
Even if you decrease the value of the ítems, the analisys on a long period would still be favorable for repeating dgs for salvage then risking the pug for the daily bonus RAD.
If you rather decrease the drop rate of these salvagable items and obligate endgamers to use their keys to get one, then you will make the game harder then it is already, for starting/mid players to progress. Consequently you will see a increase on the number of players who give up from the game before reaching the end.
Best regards,
I struggle to get my players, who are not in the heady ranks of pepped up demigods who run eToS in five minutes (and many struggle on the Underdark Skirmishes) to do the daily cleric quest, and basically telling them that they're not going to get any AD unless we queue in the random section and drop lucky will be plenty sufficient for them to just politely decline.
Why on Gods green Earth do you want to mend something that isn't broken?
Most players have a good idea of how long each queue content takes them. So depending on their available time, (let's go ahead and assume that not everyone ha 24 hour a day access... and may from time to time have air breathing lives to lead) people either have to play for no AD, or not play, if they don't have the time to play the longest material they are specced for.
I have lots of time and access, but it's broken into lots of short periods throughout the day and a longer stretch in the evenings.
So now, to run my characters through daily cleric quests to help my guild I'm screwed on my primary source of RAD. Because I simply don't have time to run the high end dungeons I'm likely to get dropped into.
If I do have time to do more than the cleric runs, I base my choice on what keys my characters currently have at their disposal.
With this change I won't have the time to run a full daily compliment of zone based campaign dailies to ensure I have keys for ALL the potential dungeons I might end up in.
So I'm going to have to spend my now limited ADs on Zen to buy dragon keys in the hope of... oh... wait... now I get it.
Dungeon 4500 → 4000
Epic Dungeon N/A → 5000
Epic Trial N/A → 3000
Hero’s Accord N/A → 5000
PvP 3000 → 5000
So let's do some math and see if this is better. (I'm being Cryptic used Common Core math to figure this out.)
Current daily RAD for characters 54th level and below.
Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000
PvP 3000 x 2 = 6000
Total = 15000 RAD possible
New system.
(0 RAD possible because they don't qualify for all the dungeons yet. And can't do Skirmishes yet (they wouldn't qualify for all of them even if they could). (maybe 5000 for PvP because I don't know how that works, never did it or going to do it.)
Pretty sure that is a whole lot less.) Edit: Found out level does not count. So correction is:
Dungeon 4000
PvP 5000
Total = 9000 RAD possible
Still a lot less.
Current daily RAD for characters 70th level without completing all campaigns through mod 11 and/or with IL below 11000.
Skirmish 2250 x 2 = 4500
Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000
PvP 3000 X 2 = 6000
Total = 19500 RAD possible
New system.
Skirmish 3000
Dungeon 4000
PvP 5000
Total = 12000 RAD possible
Better but still less.
Current daily RAD for end game players (70th level with all campaigns through mod 11 done and greater than 11000 IL).
Skirmish 2250 x 2 = 4500
Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000
PvP 3000 x 2 = 6000
Total = 19500 RAD possible
New system.
Skirmish 3000
Dungeon 4000
Epic Dungeon 5000
Epic Trial 3000
PvP 5000
Total = 20000 RAD possible.
More, barely.
Current daily RAD for end game players (70th level with all campaigns through mod 12 done and greater than 12000 IL).
Skirmish 2250 x 2 = 4500
Dungeon 4500 x 2 = 9000
PvP 3000 x 2 = 6000
Total = 19500 RAD possible
New system.
Skirmish 3000
Dungeon 4000
Epic Dungeon 5000
Epic Trial 3000
Hero’s Accord 5000
PvP 5000
Total = 25000 RAD possible
So I dare you to explain how that helps new and midrange players at all and stops the widening gap between player levels? Only the top 10% of players will see an increase in possible RAD.
I dare you to explain how that doesn't hurt the low and midrange players too?
Dungeon 4500 → 4000
Epic Dungeon N/A → 5000
Epic Trial N/A → 3000
Hero’s Accord N/A → 5000
PvP 3000 → 5000
Note PvP amount is getting a huge increase where dungeons are getting a cut. The only cut is dungeons. That is why I made the comment earlier about going back to Skyrim if we are forced to play PvP to get a head. I'm going to go from 13500 RAD a day to 7000 RAD a day because of this. Yeah thanks for all your help. (please be sure to read that last line the the Mt Everest amount of sarcasm that it was written with)
Altruistic players offering to go where needed for a few extra AD... Fantastic! Great idea, well done guys.
Let me give you a for instance as to why this will cause more problems than it will solve.
My GF is technically eligible for Castle Never. He scrapes by the IL requirement by a couple of hundred points. He's a third tier character, so not all the stuff on his sheet is the most suitable for a top notch Tank... most of my resources go to my main two. So a lot of what he has is "make do and mend". There's no way he's tanking Orcus. He can hold his own on eToS, and a couple of others but struggles like hell with Twin Fire Scorpions on pugs if the rest of the party aren't working well and are under the misapprehension that "hey... you're a Tank... you should be able to soak ALL that HAMSTER up, you're here to SUPPORT me, not the other way round" (cos... I hate to be the one to tell you, but some players can be a little bit selfish.). If he queues random dungeons and drops Castle Never, unless he's lucky and picks up four REALLY buff characters, that run is likely to be doomed from the outset. And if it is a success, chances are my participation would be negligible. That's loads of fun...
As it stands, when I've got spare time, I queue him in all the lists he can realistically Tank, has chest keys for, and that I have enough time to run.
But I'm afraid my gaming needs to fit around my circumstances, not the other way round.
Here is why I will (almost) never be using random queues for dungeons
When I run a dungeon it is either for my own benefit or to help out guild/alliance members."For my own benefit" is currently pretty much limited to CN (as I still need one achievement from there) and ToNG (for the seals I need to buy the IL 500 equipment I want). There is pretty much nothing in any of the other dungeons that I want, so I see no personal benefit in doing them. Now I can run CN with a PUG, and I have done that a few times, but I prefer not to. ToNG is simply not feasible for a PUG - you need a well-balanced, high-IL or highly skilled group for a smooth run.
Now, I obviously would never select a random queue, hoping to get into CN, but it would actually work for ToNG - get a good 5-man party together and "random queue" for any of the highest tier dungons - and as ToNG is the only one, we would be guaranteed to end up there, and get a small "Random queue" bonus.
Yeah, that's not what the random dungeon queues are intended for - but that's all they are good for.
Now, when "helping out guild alliance members", the random queues are not much good either. The people that really need the AD bonus are those still gearing up - they typically have lower IL and may not have unlocked all the dungeons, so they cannot use the random queues anyhow.
So, let's assume I can find a group of guild-alliance members that have unlocked all the dungeons, and are willing to run a random one. Do we want to run the risk of ending up in a dungeon that several people barely qualify for, where the run might take an hour or two - if we manage to finish at all? What if someone has only limited time - could have joined for a quick dungeon, but does not have the time for a long one? It's just not going to work.
Skirmishes, on the other hand - I mostly PUG for them anyhow so just joining a random skirmish queue is not going to make much of a difference to me. None of them have anything interesting to offer, but they are quick and easy, so yea....I can see myself using a random skirmish queue....but dungeons, no way.