EDIT : My Bad i was too hasty judging the MOD....Guess i was just having a bad day in PvP

pyronist7 · July 2017

We all know TR is not really a PvE class. Nobody considers TR a HDPS unless it has a ridiculously high IL compared to the Dungeon you're doing.
What TR as class had better was its ability to perform in PvP.Not talking for Wallet TRs here but for Some TRs who farmed Years to improve their character to be part of competitive PvP , This patch is disappointing. All the struggle has been for nothing.

TRs dont have High HP , they rely on dmg to end their target when they're untouchable.
Also TR doesnt really have a Chained combo for a certain kill like GFs and GWFs do. Or Spell casters do for that instance.

This MOD has officially made TR a HAMSTER class as there are classes able to outperform it in every stage. Be it PvE or PvP. They should just remove
this class entirely because its Useless now.

"What will the net effect of these changes be? Well, AP will be worse against weakly armored targets (no overpenetration ). It might be better against heavily armored targets. But if lightly armored characters now survive better in PvP, and heavily armored ones are a bit less tough, that’s probably a good thing for PvP overall." Cool Story Bro.

Say i have a Razor sharp Sword and my opponent is wearing a leather Armor. So what it says is, My Sword will only Penetrate his Leather armor if hes wearing one.
If hes not wearing one , My Sword goes Blunt LOL. Isnt it Supposed to Slice him deeper if he isnt wearing an Armor ? (Logic-wise at least)

armadeonx · July 2017

Yeah I wouldn't try applying logic - there's no logic in a player going into stealth in full view of an opponent etc.

pyronist7 · July 2017

armadeonx said:
Yeah I wouldn't try applying logic - there's no logic in a player going into stealth in full view of an opponent etc.

Those are abilities. Bruh. Its an MMORPG
If you have an ability which does the AP effect then its a different thing.

This is general combat we are talking about.
There is always a Base of Reality to games.

trentbail21 · July 2017

TR's had like 6 mods of annihilating everyone. I think its about time they did something. Ya maybe they went too far but we will have to see how it shakes out when crit becomes better.

andre · July 2017

Yeah it was a hard piercing nerf lol. Till some of your other skills are buffed, cb spam.

jaime4312 · July 2017

Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.

What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.

pyronist7 · July 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:
Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.

What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.

Sir , You guys could still PvE and be preferred among the HDPS. TR was a PvP class only for the most part. It stands nowhere in competition now.. is what im saying. Doesnt do well in neither PvE or PvP im wondering why this class is still a part of the game.

jaime4312 · July 2017

pyronist7 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.

What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.

Sir , You guys could still PvE and be preferred among the HDPS. TR was a PvP class only for the most part. It stands nowhere in competition now.. is what im saying. Doesnt do well in neither PvE or PvP im wondering why this class is still a part of the game.

As for your comment regarding PVE=

As a SW I can tell you this, warlocks get picked up by groups not so much for ~~their comparatively lacking~~ dps but... pillar of power. 100% crit rate? rank 12 brutals in all or most offense slots? rank 12 bondings? People don't see that, they just want your pillar of power buff (for teamamtes is 12% if unfeated or 18% feated) otherwise gg, go pug. Aoe and single target damage are respectable but for either or both there are classes that eat us for breakfast:

Single target damage= HR, GWF, your class TR and GF absolutely destroy us. I am not 100% on CW but I think they also beat us= focused wizardry + high INT + trans dread/bilethorn + chilling presence +whatever their paragon exclusive passive is best here+ icy veins/abyss + shorter cooldowns on powers + faster casting speed + their hardest hitting power, ice knife, blows out of the water any SW single target daily or power in general. Oh and disintegrate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killing flames.

Aoe damage= CW, GWF and HR absolutely destroy us, one and only way not to be left behind much is TC (the reason we were broken and the reason we are underpowered nowadays) and that's if your timing with buffs and all that stuff is flawless but even then we are not a match for them.

Obviously that comparison is assuming properly built toons with BiS stuff. Yes, SW can do respectable damage but when you compare it to that of equally geared players and in some casses even lesser geared ones... gg warlocks.

Now if you want to make the soulbinder argument= No, if your teammates deal respectable or high dps and if there's another striker in the group you flat out slow your team down by being SB. Besides, your single target damage is not a match for that of the aforementioned classes.

You think stuff dies too fast for SoD to deal good damage in PVE? SW has it much worse with Creeping Death as some of our relevant powers are DoTs (like Hellish Rebuke, one of your main sources of damage) so we get Dots (from the capstone) out of... DoTs and for that we need to curse targets or getting a passive power (ACC) to put a lesser curse on them otherwise it doesn't do jack (insert word here). Oh and there a few powers that don't trigger CD properly or at all (I'm looking at you BoH and GoH).

PVP=

No matter how you build it, SW is by far the most underpowered pure striker class over there (just like it is in PVE), you think you're in a bad spot now? Your fixed SE > anything the SW has to deal damage, not even close, @etelgrin can give you more specific info and examples on that regard.

As for survability you need to stack LS, deflect and hp to the moon and with the only paragon you can do a bit of damage (hellbringer) that sometimes is not enough and you just get rekt (GWF, conqueror GF, you TRs and combat HR come to my mind as main threats). Oh and your dot powers (most relevant skills for pvp are) will make you kill yourself if you fight a proctection paladin because of their oath mechanic of reflecting damage.

There's no true dodge, no deflect from main or secondary ability scores and your damage is massively mitigated by tenacity which also renders your fury capstone pretty much worthless. If you compare that to TR, you guys are in a much better spot in pvp and, in pve, if built and played properly of course, no SW can match your single target damage.

mamalion1234 · July 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:

pyronist7 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.

What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.

Sir , You guys could still PvE and be preferred among the HDPS. TR was a PvP class only for the most part. It stands nowhere in competition now.. is what im saying. Doesnt do well in neither PvE or PvP im wondering why this class is still a part of the game.

As for your comment regarding PVE=

As a SW I can tell you this, warlocks get picked up by groups not so much for ~~their comparatively lacking~~ dps but... pillar of power. 100% crit rate? rank 12 brutals in all or most offense slots? rank 12 bondings? People don't see that, they just want your pillar of power buff (for teamamtes is 12% if unfeated or 18% feated) otherwise gg, go pug. Aoe and single target damage are respectable but for either or both there are classes that eat us for breakfast:

Single target damage= HR, GWF, your class TR and GF absolutely destroy us. I am not 100% on CW but I think they also beat us= focused wizardry + high INT + trans dread/bilethorn + chilling presence +whatever their paragon exclusive passive is best here+ icy veins/abyss + shorter cooldowns on powers + faster casting speed + their hardest hitting power, ice knife, blows out of the water any SW single target daily or power in general. Oh and disintegrate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killing flames.

Aoe damage= CW, GWF and HR absolutely destroy us, one and only way not to be left behind much is TC (the reason we were broken and the reason we are underpowered nowadays) and that's if your timing with buffs and all that stuff is flawless but even then we are not a match for them.

Obviously that comparison is assuming properly built toons with BiS stuff. Yes, SW can do respectable damage but when you compare it to that of equally geared players and in some casses even lesser geared ones... gg warlocks.

Now if you want to make the soulbinder argument= No, if your teammates deal respectable or high dps and if there's another striker in the group you flat out slow your team down by being SB. Besides, your single target damage is not a match for that of the aforementioned classes.

You think stuff dies too fast for SoD to deal good damage in PVE? SW has it much worse with Creeping Death as some of our relevant powers are DoTs (like Hellish Rebuke, one of your main sources of damage) so we get Dots (from the capstone) out of... DoTs and for that we need to curse targets or getting a passive power (ACC) to put a lesser curse on them otherwise it doesn't do jack (insert word here). Oh and there a few powers that don't trigger CD properly or at all (I'm looking at you BoH and GoH).

PVP=

No matter how you build it, SW is by far the most underpowered pure striker class over there (just like it is in PVE), you think you're in a bad spot now? Your fixed SE > anything the SW has to deal damage, not even close, @etelgrin can give you more specific info and examples on that regard.

As for survability you need to stack LS, deflect and hp to the moon and with the only paragon you can do a bit of damage (hellbringer) that sometimes is not enough and you just get rekt (GWF, conqueror GF, you TRs and combat HR come to my mind as main threats). Oh and your dot powers (most relevant skills for pvp are) will make you kill yourself if you fight a proctection paladin because of their oath mechanic of reflecting damage.

There's no true dodge, no deflect from main or secondary ability scores and your damage is massively mitigated by tenacity which also renders your fury capstone pretty much worthless. If you compare that to TR, you guys are in a much better spot in pvp and, in pve, if built and played properly of course, no SW can match your single target damage.

especially with the garbagethorn i will destroy you.

heraldfayez · July 2017

all i'm saying here is this guy making a complaint thread about TRs tbh i run a GWF and those TR one shots have led me to hate PVP and drop it for good so i really wish the class gets forbidden from there (joke here) now to PVE TR isn't a weak class and some of the TRs i know can do very good damage while still helping out party by few buffs here and there

now to summerize you are simply complaining because you probably can't one shot anything in PVP anymore and that's the way it should be as for PVE you seem to plainly sux if you say Tr can't deal damage.

if you want to complain a lot this isn't really the place for it it's reality of MMOs everything get nerfed/buffed all time you had your time to shine now let other classes do as well

Unknown · July 2017

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Unknown · July 2017

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pyronist7 · July 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:

pyronist7 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.

What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.

Sir , You guys could still PvE and be preferred among the HDPS. TR was a PvP class only for the most part. It stands nowhere in competition now.. is what im saying. Doesnt do well in neither PvE or PvP im wondering why this class is still a part of the game.

As for your comment regarding PVE=

As a SW I can tell you this, warlocks get picked up by groups not so much for ~~their comparatively lacking~~ dps but... pillar of power. 100% crit rate? rank 12 brutals in all or most offense slots? rank 12 bondings? People don't see that, they just want your pillar of power buff (for teamamtes is 12% if unfeated or 18% feated) otherwise gg, go pug. Aoe and single target damage are respectable but for either or both there are classes that eat us for breakfast:

Single target damage= HR, GWF, your class TR and GF absolutely destroy us. I am not 100% on CW but I think they also beat us= focused wizardry + high INT + trans dread/bilethorn + chilling presence +whatever their paragon exclusive passive is best here+ icy veins/abyss + shorter cooldowns on powers + faster casting speed + their hardest hitting power, ice knife, blows out of the water any SW single target daily or power in general. Oh and disintegrate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killing flames.

Aoe damage= CW, GWF and HR absolutely destroy us, one and only way not to be left behind much is TC (the reason we were broken and the reason we are underpowered nowadays) and that's if your timing with buffs and all that stuff is flawless but even then we are not a match for them.

Obviously that comparison is assuming properly built toons with BiS stuff. Yes, SW can do respectable damage but when you compare it to that of equally geared players and in some casses even lesser geared ones... gg warlocks.

Now if you want to make the soulbinder argument= No, if your teammates deal respectable or high dps and if there's another striker in the group you flat out slow your team down by being SB. Besides, your single target damage is not a match for that of the aforementioned classes.

You think stuff dies too fast for SoD to deal good damage in PVE? SW has it much worse with Creeping Death as some of our relevant powers are DoTs (like Hellish Rebuke, one of your main sources of damage) so we get Dots (from the capstone) out of... DoTs and for that we need to curse targets or getting a passive power (ACC) to put a lesser curse on them otherwise it doesn't do jack (insert word here). Oh and there a few powers that don't trigger CD properly or at all (I'm looking at you BoH and GoH).

PVP=

No matter how you build it, SW is by far the most underpowered pure striker class over there (just like it is in PVE), you think you're in a bad spot now? Your fixed SE > anything the SW has to deal damage, not even close, @etelgrin can give you more specific info and examples on that regard.

As for survability you need to stack LS, deflect and hp to the moon and with the only paragon you can do a bit of damage (hellbringer) that sometimes is not enough and you just get rekt (GWF, conqueror GF, you TRs and combat HR come to my mind as main threats). Oh and your dot powers (most relevant skills for pvp are) will make you kill yourself if you fight a proctection paladin because of their oath mechanic of reflecting damage.

There's no true dodge, no deflect from main or secondary ability scores and your damage is massively mitigated by tenacity which also renders your fury capstone pretty much worthless. If you compare that to TR, you guys are in a much better spot in pvp and, in pve, if built and played properly of course, no SW can match your single target damage.

Pvp I cant comment since i havnt played as a SW in it. But ive come across a few good ones.

however PvE dont even compare bro. No body cares about Single target dmg in Dungeons. There are classes able to do
both Single and AOE dps. xD And Ive Seen Sws Solo Orcus from 75% (Not so high geared ones) Multiple times so please.
Ever seen a TR do that ? (except from t1 Dungeons)

pyronist7 · July 2017

heraldfayez#8520 said:
all i'm saying here is this guy making a complaint thread about TRs tbh i run a GWF and those TR one shots have led me to hate PVP and drop it for good so i really wish the class gets forbidden from there (joke here) now to PVE TR isn't a weak class and some of the TRs i know can do very good damage while still helping out party by few buffs here and there

now to summerize you are simply complaining because you probably can't one shot anything in PVP anymore and that's the way it should be as for PVE you seem to plainly sux if you say Tr can't deal damage.

if you want to complain a lot this isn't really the place for it it's reality of MMOs everything get nerfed/buffed all time you had your time to shine now let other classes do as well

Im not mad at not being able to One shot anything. Shadow oF Demise Deals negligible dmg in PvP now. Actually there is an
overall Nerf on TR Dmg PvP

LOL be sincere to yourself when you say TRs do well in Dungeons. If you're Running a FBI and Looking for members
Would you pick a TR over GWF , CW or SW ? If they're all with same gearscore ? *(DC and Tanks are a must so im not mentioning em)

spideymt · July 2017

pyronist7 said:
. No body cares about Single target dmg in Dungeons. There are classes able to do
both Single and AOE dps. xD And Ive Seen Sws Solo Orcus from 75% (Not so high geared ones) Multiple times so please.
Ever seen a TR do that ? (except from t1 Dungeons)

First of all: Every range class can make orcus solo. Thats not a big deal.
And "No body cares about single target dmg in dungeons"? Erm...nop. No body cares about trash damage, m8. Thats why its called "trash".
BTT:
Everything that prevends TRs from instakill everyone else with this "genius" rotation is a good thing. I feel sry for all the TRs ...not. Deal with it.

pyronist7 · July 2017

spideymt said:

pyronist7 said:
. No body cares about Single target dmg in Dungeons. There are classes able to do
both Single and AOE dps. xD And Ive Seen Sws Solo Orcus from 75% (Not so high geared ones) Multiple times so please.
Ever seen a TR do that ? (except from t1 Dungeons)
First of all: Every range class can make orcus solo. Thats not a big deal.

Right ? Ever seen a TR solo any dungeon boss ? (TR who is not Extremely High Geared i mean)

You dont have to feel sorry. You just hate TR in general Because of PvP OPness in the past.
It shouldve been balanced. Now its weak af. Jumped from one extreme end to the other.

Unknown · July 2017

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schietindebux · July 2017

> @xsayajinx1 said:
> I just know one single TR that does insane damage in PvE... either you guys doing something wrong or he does something right

>
> In PvP TR is still a strong class, though I hope they going to nerf Courage Breaker to the ground and bring back their deflect severity to 50% but buff their encounter damage.
>

If that's a guy from Holy Crusaders I know him too, otherwise there are two of them.
And about PVP I agree... met some of your guild with high deflect builds, simply redicules, no need to even leave campfire with my craplock

micky1p00 · July 2017

xsayajinx1 said:
I just know one single TR that does insane damage in PvE... either you guys doing something wrong or he does something right

And you ran with him after mod 12? When you run as DPS and not strictly tanking ?

Or the insane damage is when he is solo dps, with OP, AC DC, DO DC, GF (The tanking/buffing type).

Because if memory severs me right, you outdps him, and no more SP power-stacking...

spideymt · July 2017

pyronist7 said:

spideymt said:

pyronist7 said:
. No body cares about Single target dmg in Dungeons. There are classes able to do
both Single and AOE dps. xD And Ive Seen Sws Solo Orcus from 75% (Not so high geared ones) Multiple times so please.
Ever seen a TR do that ? (except from t1 Dungeons)
First of all: Every range !!!!!!!!!!!! class can make orcus solo. Thats not a big deal.
Right ? Ever seen a TR solo any dungeon boss ? (TR who is not Extremely High Geared i mean)

You dont have to feel sorry. You just hate TR in general Because of PvP OPness in the past.
It shouldve been balanced. Now its weak af. Jumped from one extreme end to the other.

Do you see what i marked? TR is a range class?
And ...erm...yes...i saw a lot TRs doing eToS/eCC/eGWD solo. Some you will find on YT. And i never said i hate TRs. But i must laugh about TRs complainung after they can instakill every other classes in PVP since mod 6 and now some TRs crying cuzz they got balanced?
Who said TR is now the most useless class ingame? If you claim such thing you dont have to be surprised if ppl telling otherwise.
Dont tell just " its weak"...make tests, make runs with ACT, check numbers, check your skills, talk to other TRs how you have to play now after that balance. This would be nice. Better than "most useless class" after 6 days from a new module...

silverkelt · July 2017

I just want to chime in on something.. this continued rhetoric about "MY class only works when you have all the expensive stuff"

But that is just not "your" class that is "all " dps classes function well with the mostly high end stuff (especially the r12 bondings/r12 enchants on pet + trans enchants and mythic artifacts.. you might be able to get away with r11s on a couple of classes, but ya.. NO DPS class does al that well without the expensive stuff.. so stop using that argument, its just invalid..
EVERYONE has to purchase millions upon millions of AD worth of enchants, bondings, pets and stuff to be ok.

IT is just the way it is..

rjc9000 · July 2017

schietindebux said:
> @xsayajinx1 said:

> I just know one single TR that does insane damage in PvE... either you guys doing something wrong or he does something right

>

> In PvP TR is still a strong class, though I hope they going to nerf Courage Breaker to the ground and bring back their deflect severity to 50% but buff their encounter damage.

>

If that's a guy from Holy Crusaders I know him too, otherwise there are two of them.

And about PVP I agree... met some of your guild with high deflect builds, simply redicules, no need to even leave campfire with my craplock

That TR is too scared to run with Ryu's friend.

Because that TR knows he's gonna get rekt by Ryu's TR friend.

micky1p00 said:

xsayajinx1 said:
I just know one single TR that does insane damage in PvE... either you guys doing something wrong or he does something right

And you ran with him after mod 12? When you run as DPS and not strictly tanking ?

Or the insane damage is when he is solo dps, with OP, AC DC, DO DC, GF (The tanking/buffing type).

Because if memory severs me right, you outdps him, and no more SP power-stacking...

The very best Conq GFs can tank and DPS at the same time. So, yes, Ryu is DPSing, even if he's using ITF (because it's super integral to playing DPS GF).

:P

Ryu could probably could test your theory, but I doubt his TR buddy is willing to give up a DC/OP for an extra GF so Ryu could go full DPS. I also highly doubt that it will change how good this TR is.

The only difference between a Tactician and Conq is that Tactician turns ITF into a 36.5% damage buff and gives the TR AP, whereas the Conq adds more damage to the team. I don't think many TRs will live and die by that 6.5% buff to ITF.

micky1p00 · July 2017

rjc9000 said:

Ryu could probably could test your theory, but I doubt his TR buddy is willing to give up a DC/OP for an extra GF so Ryu could go full DPS. I also highly doubt that it will change how good this TR is.

You miss the point. It's irrelevant who wants to give up what. Or who brings what in those terms. We talk about big numbers, and at this level, a solo DPS with 4 support will bring bigger numbers no matter the class they play or who plays it as compared to 2 DPS even if the second DPS is also a GF. Simply because it's a 0-sum everything that one gets i something that the other wont get.

With someone mechanically gifted they can do very very awesome log screenshots. And it will say nothing about how the class do or not do comparatively.
So the point of "They can do big numbers, so they do something right and everyone else should do better" is not exactly valid for class comparison.

We do not measure a class by the big numbers of a single players. Unless we want a nerf crusade because of Ryu himself.
There are many aspects, learning curve, viability, different group compositions, interaction with other classes in group. And what specifically was needed to get those big numbers.

If a class need 4 support to look good, it's says something about the class....And it's not good.

rjc9000 said:

Ryu could probably could test your theory, but I doubt his TR buddy is willing to give up a DC/OP for an extra GF so Ryu could go full DPS. I also highly doubt that it will change how good this TR is.

Where I've have said anything that even hints that that TR is anything but good. He is most definitely one of the best IMO (I don't know all TRs, nor I feel as the authority to claim who is the best).

rjc9000 said:

The only difference between a Tactician and Conq is that Tactician turns ITF into a 36.5% damage buff and gives the TR AP, whereas the Conq adds more damage to the team. I don't think many TRs will live and die by that 6.5% buff to ITF.

See the 0-sum mention above. Everything that a Conq DPSes, and I think you will agree that is can be more than the TR (even the one in the example, especially with no power stacking). Will not go into the TRs damage total.... So no, it's not 6.5% difference. It's about half the possible damage that can be done for the purpose of the pretty screenshots.

sh00termcl0vin · July 2017

CB spam, this has been the tr meta for a while now. Still super lame but still viable. I wouldn't get too comfortable with this though, as in mod 12.5 there will be diminishing returns on CC so even that will be useless. Hopefully 12.5 includes the proposed TR rework (as stated before in previous developer streams with no definite date).

Going forward from there TR will need some love. Encounter powers needs buffs, ITC need to have the cooldown increased and changed so that you don't become immune to damage for the duration, and deflect severity needs some changes so that you don't get super deflect stacking TRs.

Unknown · July 2017

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micky1p00 · July 2017

xsayajinx1 said:
@micky1p00 That's a pretty good point you make there, because I cannot outdps the TR without the super buff party composition. Any other comp and he will be miles ahead of me.

And it will be more interesting to see after the powerstacking change.

(I'm really not sure why this discussion is in the PvP section)

crollax · July 2017

tr`s kinda ok on 1v1 now dps is so cool in test server 12b mod, but somehow they need to change BB some I belive and open up some more encounter dps , then which we wont need to use smoke bomb

I mean u have to give one encounter so nice welcome to make players stop using smoke and go for really dps,

also in my personal opinion if u can make BB all ticks on same target which u started on , would be awesome also because in premade tr really useless , and now people does perma cb smoke and ruin game even more ,

they have to apply some buff which makes tr`s stop using smoke and cb , u can nerf cb but u really need to buff dps encounters,

jaime4312 · July 2017

@pyronist7

No, it is the other way around, single target dps is the most important type of damage output in dungeons hence people care about it, you need it to kill bosses asap and in that regard TRs can hit very very hard. Yeah other classes do great at both aoe and single target dps but that doesn't change that a properly built and played TR is a great boss killer.

@etelgrin

If you meant me, I respectfully disagree then, the point of comparing TR and SW was to help him realise that his class is far from being as bad as he think it is so by explaining him the limitations of SW he can realise that his damage output, albeit lower, is by no means the lowerst + his survability is off the charts thanks to several things available to him which are in some cases obscenely overpowered (ItC)

wdj40 · August 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:

pyronist7 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.

What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.

Sir , You guys could still PvE and be preferred among the HDPS. TR was a PvP class only for the most part. It stands nowhere in competition now.. is what im saying. Doesnt do well in neither PvE or PvP im wondering why this class is still a part of the game.

As for your comment regarding PVE=

As a SW I can tell you this, warlocks get picked up by groups not so much for ~~their comparatively lacking~~ dps but... pillar of power. 100% crit rate? rank 12 brutals in all or most offense slots? rank 12 bondings? People don't see that, they just want your pillar of power buff (for teamamtes is 12% if unfeated or 18% feated) otherwise gg, go pug. Aoe and single target damage are respectable but for either or both there are classes that eat us for breakfast:

Single target damage= HR, GWF, your class TR and GF absolutely destroy us. I am not 100% on CW but I think they also beat us= focused wizardry + high INT + trans dread/bilethorn + chilling presence +whatever their paragon exclusive passive is best here+ icy veins/abyss + shorter cooldowns on powers + faster casting speed + their hardest hitting power, ice knife, blows out of the water any SW single target daily or power in general. Oh and disintegrate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killing flames.

Aoe damage= CW, GWF and HR absolutely destroy us, one and only way not to be left behind much is TC (the reason we were broken and the reason we are underpowered nowadays) and that's if your timing with buffs and all that stuff is flawless but even then we are not a match for them.

Obviously that comparison is assuming properly built toons with BiS stuff. Yes, SW can do respectable damage but when you compare it to that of equally geared players and in some casses even lesser geared ones... gg warlocks.

Now if you want to make the soulbinder argument= No, if your teammates deal respectable or high dps and if there's another striker in the group you flat out slow your team down by being SB. Besides, your single target damage is not a match for that of the aforementioned classes.

You think stuff dies too fast for SoD to deal good damage in PVE? SW has it much worse with Creeping Death as some of our relevant powers are DoTs (like Hellish Rebuke, one of your main sources of damage) so we get Dots (from the capstone) out of... DoTs and for that we need to curse targets or getting a passive power (ACC) to put a lesser curse on them otherwise it doesn't do jack (insert word here). Oh and there a few powers that don't trigger CD properly or at all (I'm looking at you BoH and GoH).

PVP=

No matter how you build it, SW is by far the most underpowered pure striker class over there (just like it is in PVE), you think you're in a bad spot now? Your fixed SE > anything the SW has to deal damage, not even close, @etelgrin can give you more specific info and examples on that regard.

As for survability you need to stack LS, deflect and hp to the moon and with the only paragon you can do a bit of damage (hellbringer) that sometimes is not enough and you just get rekt (GWF, conqueror GF, you TRs and combat HR come to my mind as main threats). Oh and your dot powers (most relevant skills for pvp are) will make you kill yourself if you fight a proctection paladin because of their oath mechanic of reflecting damage.

There's no true dodge, no deflect from main or secondary ability scores and your damage is massively mitigated by tenacity which also renders your fury capstone pretty much worthless. If you compare that to TR, you guys are in a much better spot in pvp and, in pve, if built and played properly of course, no SW can match your single target damage.

lol, you must be playing your class wrong, some of the best PvP players on the xbox right now are SW's... Just look at the leaderboard, on the 1st page there are a couple with 800+ kills with 10 deaths etc.

I am not too bad at PvP but every now and then a SW will come along and my HP goes so quickly its nuts.

Now I will be extremely happy when the TR gets the nerf on the xbox... I am so sick of running around fighting and having fun and a TR 1 shots me for 220k. Just about every game there is one at the moment and they take so little damage, hardly ever be seen and also stunlock me for as long as needed until I am dead, sometimes you just cannot move at all.... just a joke really... but there is waaaaaay too much cc in PvP for it to be much fun any more.

demonmonger · August 2017

> @pyronist7 said:
> Good sir if you think TR damage is the lowest in pvp I suggest you to try SW, once you do that you'll realise TRs are not by any means the class that has it worse at dealing damage and your survability is off the charts as well.
>
>
> What years of struggle are you speaking of? You guys instakilled people with little to no effort at all for several mods, I mean come on, it isn't like people could kill you a lot if at all... dodges, stealth, ItC (this particular power is obscenely overpowered), 75% base deflect severity, double deflect from ability scores, CB and SE.
>
>
> Sir , You guys could still PvE and be preferred among the HDPS. TR was a PvP class only for the most part. It stands nowhere in competition now.. is what im saying. Doesnt do well in neither PvE or PvP im wondering why this class is still a part of the game.

>
>
>
>
> As for your comment regarding PVE=
>
> As a SW I can tell you this, warlocks get picked up by groups not so much for their comparatively lacking dps but... pillar of power. 100% crit rate? rank 12 brutals in all or most offense slots? rank 12 bondings? People don't see that, they just want your pillar of power buff (for teamamtes is 12% if unfeated or 18% feated) otherwise gg, go pug. Aoe and single target damage are respectable but for either or both there are classes that eat us for breakfast:
>
> Single target damage= HR, GWF, your class TR and GF absolutely destroy us. I am not 100% on CW but I think they also beat us= focused wizardry + high INT + trans dread/bilethorn + chilling presence +whatever their paragon exclusive passive is best here+ icy veins/abyss + shorter cooldowns on powers + faster casting speed + their hardest hitting power, ice knife, blows out of the water any SW single target daily or power in general. Oh and disintegrate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> killing flames.
>
> Aoe damage= CW, GWF and HR absolutely destroy us, one and only way not to be left behind much is TC (the reason we were broken and the reason we are underpowered nowadays) and that's if your timing with buffs and all that stuff is flawless but even then we are not a match for them.
>
> Obviously that comparison is assuming properly built toons with BiS stuff. Yes, SW can do respectable damage but when you compare it to that of equally geared players and in some casses even lesser geared ones... gg warlocks.
>
> Now if you want to make the soulbinder argument= No, if your teammates deal respectable or high dps and if there's another striker in the group you flat out slow your team down by being SB. Besides, your single target damage is not a match for that of the aforementioned classes.
>
> You think stuff dies too fast for SoD to deal good damage in PVE? SW has it much worse with Creeping Death as some of our relevant powers are DoTs (like Hellish Rebuke, one of your main sources of damage) so we get Dots (from the capstone) out of... DoTs and for that we need to curse targets or getting a passive power (ACC) to put a lesser curse on them otherwise it doesn't do jack (insert word here). Oh and there a few powers that don't trigger CD properly or at all (I'm looking at you BoH and GoH).
>
> PVP=
>
> No matter how you build it, SW is by far the most underpowered pure striker class over there (just like it is in PVE), you think you're in a bad spot now? Your fixed SE > anything the SW has to deal damage, not even close, @etelgrin can give you more specific info and examples on that regard.
>
> As for survability you need to stack LS, deflect and hp to the moon and with the only paragon you can do a bit of damage (hellbringer) that sometimes is not enough and you just get rekt (GWF, conqueror GF, you TRs and combat HR come to my mind as main threats). Oh and your dot powers (most relevant skills for pvp are) will make you kill yourself if you fight a proctection paladin because of their oath mechanic of reflecting damage.
>
> There's no true dodge, no deflect from main or secondary ability scores and your damage is massively mitigated by tenacity which also renders your fury capstone pretty much worthless. If you compare that to TR, you guys are in a much better spot in pvp and, in pve, if built and played properly of course, no SW can match your single target damage.
>
> Pvp I cant comment since i havnt played as a SW in it. But ive come across a few good ones.
>
> however PvE dont even compare bro. No body cares about Single target dmg in Dungeons. There are classes able to do
> both Single and AOE dps. xD And Ive Seen Sws Solo Orcus from 75% (Not so high geared ones) Multiple times so please.
> Ever seen a TR do that ? (except from t1 Dungeons)

I solo orcus... I'm tr...

pyronist7 · August 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:
@pyronist7

No, it is the other way around, single target dps is the most important type of damage output in dungeons hence people care about it, you need it to kill bosses asap and in that regard TRs can hit very very hard. Yeah other classes do great at both aoe and single target dps but that doesn't change that a properly built and played TR is a great boss killer.

@etelgrin

If you meant me, I respectfully disagree then, the point of comparing TR and SW was to help him realise that his class is far from being as bad as he think it is so by explaining him the limitations of SW he can realise that his damage output, albeit lower, is by no means the lowerst + his survability is off the charts thanks to several things available to him which are in some cases obscenely overpowered (ItC)

It depends on the dungeon . People never prefer TRs for the Big ones. Like They may prefer a bit low geared other classes but never TRs of the same GS if its a pug.

PvP seems fine I guess i some bad games that day because later , it seemed ok xD

EDIT : My Bad i was too hasty judging the MOD....Guess i was just having a bad day in PvP

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