Pally Loadout Impact to Groups

armadeonx · May 2017

As I said, the OP mains a DC and this is about turf, not functionality.

Have you noticed that when a pug isn't going well the DC is often the first to quit? (I'm saying this as someone with a 3.2k DC that rarely quits). That's partly down to the quick queue times for clerics but also because when you're in a minority/high demand class it erm ' boosts the ego a little'.

Healadins are perfectly capable of taking a DC slot. They don't buff as well but they do have buffs - they also out-heal DCs by miles. Most pallies rolled the Prot path but being able to switch to Healadin at will is obviously denting a few egos.

unknowndrama · May 2017

OMG!!!OP is right paladins class needs to be removed from game..this is a abomination...please devs remove paladins from game before is to late..

Now this post is stupid and unreal..what OP will que as healer and change to tank after or que as tank and switch to healer..i got my OP tank and most sure i will not play hem as a healer or que as a op healadin..and on other side..will this broke the game if a paladins see that the team needs a better tank or better healer..does devoted cleric is scare that cant get in a que party?...Do you know that most players dont que and they make party and groups whit players from theyr guild or alliance or from theyr friend list and the only way they could get another players from PUG or que is that they missing 1 or 2...

ravenskya · May 2017

Actually OP mains a GF Tank and has an equally leveled DC - so this shouldn't affect him at all unless he's on his CW. I think he's more talking theoretically.

I think at first glance the pally being able to swap would lead to panic - but once you think it through you pretty much calm yourself down. I main a healadin and at first my eyebrows raised... then after a little more thought I realized that it really wouldn't affect much other than flooding the queues with healers or tanks depending on the wait for one or the other. And making the pally more versatile in the sense that if you see someone in the alliance calling for either a tank or heals - you can offer whichever it is they need. But beyond that - I don't see the value in swapping in the middle of a dungeon unless you find yourself in there and the group is broken and there is no tank/healer and the crew clearly needs the opposite of what you are.

asterotg · May 2017

Some seem to underestimate the greed and laziness of some players. While 90-95% would not do, what OP suggested, there are ppl going AFK, running on multiple alts and whatnot. These ppl would grab every possible way, to limit their own time spent in que disregarding the fact, that the runs might fail or take longer bc of their behavior.

Due to the fact, that higher tiered dungeons have a bad time spent/loot ratio atm, undergeared alts swarm T1 dungeons. If possible, I run them duo with a friend, switching alts after two runs. If you think, dont blame others for behavior similar to your own, my alts are geared. If ppl cant be bothered to gear up more, then min IL for a dungeon, if they dont want to contribute, they will have no problem, to screw their group, by changing spec for a faster que time.

Thing is, these ppl would be useless as tank or as heal, so the damage to the group is the same, no matter what.

ravenskya · May 2017

The way I look at it - those people will be useless either way.

for those of you on PC - have you found that the new item levels has helped to keep some of the super low geared characters out of dungeons they don't belong in?

elrondknight · May 2017

ravenskya said:
The way I look at it - those people will be useless either way.

for those of you on PC - have you found that the new item levels has helped to keep some of the super low geared characters out of dungeons they don't belong in?

As one of those characters, I can say, i have not had any trouble getting into any content that i was running before the mod. But I only normally run higher lvl stuff when my guild needs bodies. and I take plenty of injury kits with me

majorcharvenak · May 2017

ravenskya said:
The way I look at it - those people will be useless either way.

for those of you on PC - have you found that the new item levels has helped to keep some of the super low geared characters out of dungeons they don't belong in?

No. I've still had runs with folks that eek over the min TIL requirements. I'm very loath to vote kick anyone just because their TIL is right at the threshold for entrance provided they are doing their part to help the team. I just know that they are going to need a little more care and feeding than maybe the rest of the party.

Again, I say this whole thread is a non-issue. If the OP is arguing for a mechanical solution to Pally loadouts and switching, it already exists - The game will queue you based on your loadout. If you don't like the party's composition as a result then don't run PUGs! If you do (and the offending party member is not performing the role needed by the team) vote kick is another option. If this a turf battle between DCs and Healadins its also a non-issue. Either one is perfectly viable in getting a party through a run. DCs will get them through faster but the Healadins can also keep the team alive and fighting.

rafaelda · May 2017

I have to say, i've started to play before the OP was released, and i couldn't play was DC, i just don like it in this game idk why, 'ive mad a GF as an Alt to help my guildies to gear up... i tried a OP and i was no good as TAnk, but liked the Heals...

the thing is that was my 5 toon and i realized that i couldnt abandone him, but couldnt also bring all of them up to the end of the grind and equip him as well, he was lv 70 and had undedark armor when i choose to erase him and keep my GF...

that decision would be really diferent if was today, after the layout i would keep my Pally and scrp the GF because my only reason to have this alt is to be a Suport, and being ablle to change the support you can give is REAAAALY nice...

i think people need to be more optmistic with this change, now you can ask a OP to be heal or Tank during a run and that is awesome...

wish i could buy a Class change token for my GF...

kemi1984 · May 2017

I said it before and will say it again.

Lodouts are AWESOME for support classes - period.

Each time I see a whine about that (even if not perfect working) feature I'm thinking WTF.

mebengalsfan · May 2017

I have played eso where player que as both a healer and tank, get the tank role but only play healer. I have played other games where players que as said support role but do not play the support role.

Now that is out there, the Pally is the lone class that plays both support roles. I am not saying it will be an issue, I am stating it can happen and causes issues for other players. If you end up on the receiving end of a player that does this, you may change your mind on having a mechanic in game to ensure this does not happen.

I personally experienced this happening in other games and was curious if the update had a way to reduce this from happening or if there was a plan to implement something if this does become an issue.

majorcharvenak · May 2017

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
I have played eso where player que as both a healer and tank, get the tank role but only play healer. I have played other games where players que as said support role but do not play the support role.

Now that is out there, the Pally is the lone class that plays both support roles. I am not saying it will be an issue, I am stating it can happen and causes issues for other players. If you end up on the receiving end of a player that does this, you may change your mind on having a mechanic in game to ensure this does not happen.

I personally experienced this happening in other games and was curious if the update had a way to reduce this from happening or if there was a plan to implement something if this does become an issue.

Well I think you have your answer mebengalsfan. There is no plan to implement anything new outside of the existing tools available to the playerbase (Premades, Queing based on current loadout, Vote-kicking). I don't see the Devs wasting time and money in developing another feature just to lock the loadout and protect someone's 'turf'. Especially since the beauty of loadouts are in there flexiability to allow a team to adapt to their conditions. Based on your concerns, they shouldn't. So if this feature you'd advocate for was implemented, would it prevent GWFs from potentially off-tanking? Would it keep a Rightous spec DC locked into a healing role when the party might need the extra damage they could provide? Unless you're going to lock all the classes in their respective roles, it would make little sense for the devs to allocate resources to developing a safeguard just because one class can fill two roles. Could folks abuse the loadout feature? Yes...Yes they could but then its incumbent on the rest of the party to either get the offender in line or remove them from the team. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

mebengalsfan · May 2017

majorcharvenak said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
I have played eso where player que as both a healer and tank, get the tank role but only play healer. I have played other games where players que as said support role but do not play the support role.

Now that is out there, the Pally is the lone class that plays both support roles. I am not saying it will be an issue, I am stating it can happen and causes issues for other players. If you end up on the receiving end of a player that does this, you may change your mind on having a mechanic in game to ensure this does not happen.

I personally experienced this happening in other games and was curious if the update had a way to reduce this from happening or if there was a plan to implement something if this does become an issue.

Well I think you have your answer mebengalsfan. There is no plan to implement anything new outside of the existing tools available to the playerbase (Premades, Queing based on current loadout, Vote-kicking). I don't see the Devs wasting time and money in developing another feature just to lock the loadout and protect someone's 'turf'. Especially since the beauty of loadouts are in there flexiability to allow a team to adapt to their conditions. Based on your concerns, they shouldn't. So if this feature you'd advocate for was implemented, would it prevent GWFs from potentially off-tanking? Would it keep a Rightous spec DC locked into a healing role when the party might need the extra damage they could provide? Unless you're going to lock all the classes in their respective roles, it would make little sense for the devs to allocate resources to developing a safeguard just because one class can fill two roles. Could folks abuse the loadout feature? Yes...Yes they could but then its incumbent on the rest of the party to either get the offender in line or remove them from the team. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Have you played other MMOs where loadout exist? It tend to make running dungeons harder than it needs to be due to trolls. It happens. Not everyone will get inline as you think.

This was simply me raising awareness around a possible issue with loadout. I am all for loadout in fact, it will make soloing content easier for support players like myself. I am against player trolling and ruining runs, and with loadout this is more than likely going to happen at some point and remember this post when you are trying to get some one inline who won't get inline.

Unknown · May 2017

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majorcharvenak · May 2017

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

majorcharvenak said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
I have played eso where player que as both a healer and tank, get the tank role but only play healer. I have played other games where players que as said support role but do not play the support role.

Now that is out there, the Pally is the lone class that plays both support roles. I am not saying it will be an issue, I am stating it can happen and causes issues for other players. If you end up on the receiving end of a player that does this, you may change your mind on having a mechanic in game to ensure this does not happen.

I personally experienced this happening in other games and was curious if the update had a way to reduce this from happening or if there was a plan to implement something if this does become an issue.

Well I think you have your answer mebengalsfan. There is no plan to implement anything new outside of the existing tools available to the playerbase (Premades, Queing based on current loadout, Vote-kicking). I don't see the Devs wasting time and money in developing another feature just to lock the loadout and protect someone's 'turf'. Especially since the beauty of loadouts are in there flexiability to allow a team to adapt to their conditions. Based on your concerns, they shouldn't. So if this feature you'd advocate for was implemented, would it prevent GWFs from potentially off-tanking? Would it keep a Rightous spec DC locked into a healing role when the party might need the extra damage they could provide? Unless you're going to lock all the classes in their respective roles, it would make little sense for the devs to allocate resources to developing a safeguard just because one class can fill two roles. Could folks abuse the loadout feature? Yes...Yes they could but then its incumbent on the rest of the party to either get the offender in line or remove them from the team. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
Have you played other MMOs where loadout exist? It tend to make running dungeons harder than it needs to be due to trolls. It happens. Not everyone will get inline as you think.

This was simply me raising awareness around a possible issue with loadout. I am all for loadout in fact, it will make soloing content easier for support players like myself. I am against player trolling and ruining runs, and with loadout this is more than likely going to happen at some point and remember this post when you are trying to get some one inline who won't get inline.

And what I'm saying is, if they don't fall in line then vote kick them or dont put yourself at risk at running in a PUG. Gather a group of friends, guildies or acquintances and make a group before you queue. If you accept the risk of PUGging, you get what you get. If a member didn't take their dose of 'actright' before the dungeon, then Kick them. The Devs at Cryptic shouldn't have to hold our hands when we're in a team environment. We're all adults (or near adults) and we have the tools available to handle folks who don't want to play nice in the dungeons.

Hell, I could point out that inexperience and (in some cases) glory seeking can also ruin a run. Should Cryptic develop a mechanism within the queues that only allow PUG members to form up for a dungeon, only if potential members have demonstrated they've completed the dungeon in the past? That they can work as a team instead of glory seeking individuals? That certainly would be a welcome boost.

krazydog#1509 said:
Can someone shutdown this thread. The OP is just whining about something he hasn't got on PS4 yet.

Can we please? I think I've ground my mount's bones into powder.

fontanaelunae · May 2017

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

Have you played other MMOs where loadout exist? It tend to make running dungeons harder than it needs to be due to trolls. It happens. Not everyone will get inline as you think.

This was simply me raising awareness around a possible issue with loadout. I am all for loadout in fact, it will make soloing content easier for support players like myself. I am against player trolling and ruining runs, and with loadout this is more than likely going to happen at some point and remember this post when you are trying to get some one inline who won't get inline.

Do you know the history of paladins in THIS game? You have not been here long enough... Please think twice before raising issues from OTHER games, especially if they concern classes you DON'T play -- it poisons the atmosphere...

And there are enough REAL issues in THIS game. One I can remember, and I surely never opened a thread concerning it, was that some support classes (DC and GF) can choose damage paths and will still queue as healer or tank, even when they cannot fulfill that role well enough at times... Hey, and we survived it! ^^

Enjoy new loadouts for ALL classes!

armadeonx · May 2017

Pallies have long been treated as an underclass and it's only recently that they've begun to show others they can handle their roles and compete with GF's and DC's. They will be acutely aware that it's not in their interest to start messing about now.

Unknown · May 2017

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micky1p00 · May 2017

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

What do other think about this? No other class ATM can break or ruin runs for random groups.

I can slap some R12s on my GF and ruin everyone and anyone day. They will beg/pay me to sit on the campfire by the time the run is done.
And load-outs will have nothing to do with it. Nor Paladins. Also GF is an example, I can fail on multiple classes with great success.

More to the point, loadouts do not modify human nature, majority will use it to adjust to the group needs, some minority perhaps will use it for no one knows what. But at the same time you don't need loadouts to grief a run. Repel can do it just fine.
Don't like the population, don't pug.

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

Have you played other MMOs where loadout exist? It tend to make running dungeons harder than it needs to be due to trolls. It happens. Not everyone will get inline as you think.

This was simply me raising awareness around a possible issue with loadout. I am all for loadout in fact, it will make soloing content easier for support players like myself. I am against player trolling and ruining runs, and with loadout this is more than likely going to happen at some point and remember this post when you are trying to get some one inline who won't get inline.

Actually, played skyforge, you know that one where you can swap from class to class at any time, I've only pugged there, no guild, and the swapping saved us countless times and countless runs.

This thread is an example of how overthinking can prevent a beneficial and positive advancement to the majority of the population from happening, just out of fear that unknown, and probably non-existent minority might abuse it, and worse, that abuse can be achieved in countless ways currently so nothing detrimental is added.

gabrieldourden · May 2017

> @beckylunatic said:
> I cannot see paladin players using loadouts to troll groups being some kind of gamebreaking issue. If a run is going to fail because they decided to double up roles by switching after entering an instance, then they have just wasted their own time as well as everyone else's, so... way to go genius? Your plan worked so well. Enjoy your nonexistent loot.
>
> Seriously, why would anyone do this? Or do it more than once after discovering what a clever hamsterhead it actually made them in practice.

Ehm Becky, if people would all be reasonable I would agree with you. But I have seen people enter eDemo, tell everybody around that they were idiots, do the first phase, then voluntarily bug the Goristro...

ghoulz66 · May 2017

Don't even know wth to do with this extra load out. There's really only one way to do a heal OP in the first place. Bulwark and light are garbage(though light has some pvp use but to hell with that). Only thing left is to mess with tanking out of boredom.

ravenskya · May 2017

You could try regular healadin and then @beckylunatic's stealadin

beckylunatic · May 2017

It's @rubytrue 's stealadin, to give credit where it's due.

rubytrue · May 2017

Stealadin is kind of a bust; it really doesn't add a lot of damage, and you heal enough anyway so it's effect is negligible. If anything, it adds quite a bit of lag so it actually slows things down for everyone. It was worth a shot, but in the end, it just wasn't worth it.

ravenskya · May 2017

Oh my bad - I don't know why I thought beckylunatic and not rubytrue... I think I had just read one of becky's posts and had it on the brain

Pally Loadout Impact to Groups

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