Is The Foundry dead? or bugged badly?

hatchetknights · March 2017

Hello, I have a major issue with the foundry...

You see, I try to create a quest with a custom map, it took me long time to try and make it right, it got at stand-by for a while, but today, when i decide to do a quest at foundry, I find out there are no ways to create custom maps, or custom NPC's, neither costumes... I wish to know what happened there and if possible, to have that problem of not being capable of creating the customized quest I wanted to do (even knowing there are still some restrictions) fixed.

I'll be most grateful if that gets solved

robzilla45 · March 2017

What gives? Did you guys break the foundry again? All the objects are gone from the details window... can't use the tools at all like that. One of three things has happened... 1) Your latest patch has inadvertently broken the foundry tools. 2) You have disabled the tools so that they can be updated. 3) You have intentionally broken the foundry for unknown reasons.

As a customer.. yes, you know.. someone that paid money for your product,.. a customer.. I feel you owe me some sort of an explanation as to why my toy keeps breaking.

Thank you...
A pissed off customer.

iandarksword · March 2017

This might help get you guys caught up on the current state of things. People have been airing their displeasure since the "temporarily" post. Keep in mind, "temporarily" was posted in December, we're now 3 months removed from that and most now consider "temporarily" to mean "indefinitely." Here's the posts to get you caught up:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1229015/how-are-we-supposed-to-provide-accurate-analytics-with-the-current-state-of-the-foundry

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1226118/foundry-temporarily-off

beckylunatic · March 2017

Not dead, just... resting.

iandarksword · March 2017

@beckylunatic To quote one of my favorite scenes:

https://youtu.be/xbE8E1ez97M

robzilla45 · March 2017

You have got to be kidding me? What a chcken-xxxx operation. I want my money back... all of it.

simplyshawn · March 2017

I highly doubt their reason for this is just to upset us... Still, it would be nice to just "know" the real reason The Foundry isn't working so that we can all stop speculating. We all, myself included, assume the worst when we don't hear anything. There is far more likely to be a perfectly valid explanation - we just don't know it

markhawkman · March 2017

The real reason? If I was to guess... The spaghetti code got tied in a knot.

hustin1 · March 2017

I'm willing to bet that some of us could get it straightened out in very short order. More than once the devs have mentioned that updating it is a manual process. This is just a WAG, but I'm guessing that the problem boils down to a mismatch between data structure definitions. Maybe the Foundry is using some sort of "soft" definitions using XML or some other scheme, and that's not agreeing with the data structures it's receiving from either the data files or from the network. This would make the "manual" process that of synchronizing data definitions with any code changes. Maybe someone added a field, changed a data type, or somesuch, and they don't know where they need to make the corresponding change in the data definitions. Enough things in the Foundry engine and editor are working that you can rule out a lot of potential problem areas.

nameexpired · March 2017

simplyshawn said:
I highly doubt their reason for this is just to upset us... Still, it would be nice to just "know" the real reason The Foundry isn't working so that we can all stop speculating. We all, myself included, assume the worst when we don't hear anything. There is far more likely to be a perfectly valid explanation - we just don't know it

My guess is they cannot tell us because every answer but "we are going to fix this" would crush some dream, hence lead to players leaving. As long as there no "we don't intend to fix the foundry" said from official sources people have hope, and stay, and probably invest into the game.

markhawkman · March 2017

I honestly believe the devs when they say they are working on it and trying to fix it.

zebular · March 2017

It needs reincarnated. It's currently in an inanimate state, somewhere between the the Prime Material Plane and the Fugue Plane... By the grace of Mystra and Kelemvor, please give the Foundry the love it was originally promised back in production and reincarnate it into the glory it was always meant to and can be.

hustin1 · March 2017

markhawkman said:
I honestly believe the devs when they say they are working on it and trying to fix it.

The last communication I saw was that they were gathering usage data (presumably so they could decide whether they wanted to fix it). Has this changed?

instynctive · March 2017

nameexpired · March 2017

markhawkman said:
I honestly believe the devs when they say they are working on it and trying to fix it.

Feels like me flapping my hands and saying "I try to fly".
if there is no commitment from product management there won't be more resources than applying a band aid.

mrgiggles651 · March 2017

zebular said:
the glory it was always meant to

I dispute that. Even the 3d editor was a dev or two in their spare time.

zebular · March 2017

mrgiggles651 said:

zebular said:
the glory it was always meant to
I dispute that. Even the 3d editor was a dev or two in their spare time.

Then you don't remember the hype they put on the Foundry back in Pre-Alpha and Alpha. It was their biggest "selling" point.

robzilla45 · April 2017

Ok.. I'm not going to wait another three to six months to have them "fix" the foundry.. only to have it break again an two or three weeks. It's time to delete this game from my computer. I will never buy or play another product from "Perfect World Entertainment". The people at this company made promises they never intended to keep... they are dishonest and unethical. Goodbye.

mrgiggles651 · April 2017

zebular said:

mrgiggles651 said:

zebular said:
the glory it was always meant to
I dispute that. Even the 3d editor was a dev or two in their spare time.
Then you don't remember the hype they put on the Foundry back in Pre-Alpha and Alpha. It was their biggest "selling" point.

Since I was a Foundry beta author, I remember that just fine. Vast things were promised but not delivered, eg it was marketing hype.

zebular · April 2017

mrgiggles651 said:

zebular said:

mrgiggles651 said:

zebular said:
the glory it was always meant to
I dispute that. Even the 3d editor was a dev or two in their spare time.
Then you don't remember the hype they put on the Foundry back in Pre-Alpha and Alpha. It was their biggest "selling" point.
Since I was a Foundry beta author, I remember that just fine. Vast things were promised but not delivered, eg it was marketing hype.

Which was my point... so if you remember that, why did you "dispute it?" I was a Foundry Alpha Tester, if'n that matters.

nitocris83 · April 2017

Still checking data. There's a lot of years worth of metrics to go through and it needs to be cleaned up to be analyzed. While data pulls can be done with queries, setting up queries and then working with the data is a manual process (which then we need to put in safeguards against human errors).

dupeks · April 2017

nitocris83 said:
Still checking data. There's a lot of years worth of metrics to go through and it needs to be cleaned up to be analyzed. While data pulls can be done with queries, setting up queries and then working with the data is a manual process (which then we need to put in safeguards against human errors).

Or... you could release anonymized data and have the community help you parse it

Plenty of us with analytical capabilities spending way too much time parsing combat logs with mediocre tools could be put to use doing useful things.

hustin1 · April 2017

I can't help but wonder if the editor could have been fixed by now instead of putting in effort to build SQL queries and analyze the results. I mean, it's only one portion of the editor -- everything else is working just fine. There's a saying I sometimes use at work: we could spend three hours talking about it, or we could just do it.

dupeks · April 2017

hustin1 said:
I can't help but wonder if the editor could have been fixed by now instead of putting in effort to build SQL queries and analyze the results. I mean, it's only one portion of the editor -- everything else is working just fine. There's a saying I sometimes use at work: we could spend three hours talking about it, or we could just do it.

I kind of suspect that the foundry needs a fair bit of love, especially with a lot of the systems changes that have been happening recently. And a revamped loot system too, one that encourages engaging with Foundry content.

If I had to guess, part of why they are "pulling the data" is so that they can scrape together a PowerPoint presentation for "management" in order to convince them that this feature has potential to grow their player base and revenue. And also that it's worth investing in more than just fixing the most egregious bugs. Otherwise it'll break every couple system updates, and it'll be a slow drip death all over again and a constant drain on resources.

Players can probably help by providing meaningful anecdotes about their experiences with the Foundry (both creators and players) that would work nicely as snips in a slide deck.

Players could also float ideas for Foundry missions we would like to create, or brainstorm balanced ways of making engaging with Foundry missions relevant to the general player base.

Many have already been doing what I suggest above, but it's important to keep providing this kind of evidence in a clear and easy-to-cannibalize format so that our advocates have the ammunition they need to fight the good fight up upstairs.

hustin1 · April 2017

I'd like to challenge the devs to try some of our quests out so they can see what the Foundry even in its current limited state can do -- let alone what it could do if given some attention.

dupeks · April 2017

hustin1 said:
I'd like to challenge the devs to try some of our quests out so they can see what the Foundry even in its current limited state can do -- let alone what it could do if given some attention.

While I think this is an admirable challenge, I think it's missing the point.

If you actually want results, we need to spoon-feed them anecdotes and experiences. Or point mimicking to specific foundries you have created and share with him the awesome time you had building it.

Asking devs to spend time playing foundry missions is not a good use of their time, as they are not the decision makers. And it wouldn't lead to more investment into the foundry either, I don't think, because it wouldn't be a compelling sell to the decisionmakers ("We should invest in this foundry thing because the devs had a lot of fun playing it" doesn't work well in a corporate decision-making setting)

waryur · April 2017

robzilla45 said:
Ok.. I'm not going to wait another three to six months to have them "fix" the foundry.. only to have it break again an two or three weeks. It's time to delete this game from my computer. I will never buy or play another product from "Perfect World Entertainment". The people at this company made promises they never intended to keep... they are dishonest and unethical. Goodbye.

Even though this guy is gone, friendly reminder to everyone else that's frustrated but doesn't remember or know the history of the heartache with Foundry.
It's been down almost this long before. I actually counted the days that time.
Also, little more than a year ago, the devs announced they would make no changes, fixes, or updates to the Foundry for a whole year. They kept true to it.
The Foundry has needed love many, many times. Several have authors quit. Some remain. Some may return. And many of us authors have pulled our hair out about how often it has been down. Heartache has been part of being an author from day one.

If you are a new author, your heart is set on the Foundry, and you're frustrated about waiting for fixes, in my opinion get good, or at least more familiar, at playing the main game too. I finally am, kind of. I spent almost a year not running a single dungeon because I was in the Foundry. Now, I have a better idea of pacing battles, setting difficulty levels, building creative boss fights, assets and effects that look cool to use or try to replicate, and listening to other players about what they do and do not like in the content helps me develop more interesting quest lines and quests in general. I will be a better author because of it.

I am glad devs have seen and responded to this thread. You're seeing new authors flabbergasted and quitting over a feature of the game they were super excited about. And you see you do still have a core of players that want to build, are excited to build, and have people that want to play foundry quests after being tired when sacrificing to the RNG gods has yielded no +5 rings or legendary marks.

mrgiggles651 · April 2017

zebular said:

mrgiggles651 said:

zebular said:

mrgiggles651 said:

zebular said:
the glory it was always meant to
I dispute that. Even the 3d editor was a dev or two in their spare time.
Then you don't remember the hype they put on the Foundry back in Pre-Alpha and Alpha. It was their biggest "selling" point.
Since I was a Foundry beta author, I remember that just fine. Vast things were promised but not delivered, eg it was marketing hype.
Which was my point... so if you remember that, why did you "dispute it?" I was a Foundry Alpha Tester, if'n that matters.

zebular said:

" the glory it was always meant to "

I dispute that because I don't believe "the glory" was ever intended to be delivered. At a high level, they never "meant to", there were lots of platitudes and promises meant to get people in, and a dev or two that wanted to actually do it, but it lacked backing up with action. It was pretty much abandoned as soon as they possibly could do so, eg at launch. Dev's don't work for free. It was a marketing thing, not an actual company effort.

Is The Foundry dead? or bugged badly?

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