Gwf rework? Whats the plan ARC?

trentbail21
trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
@mimicking#6533 @commanderander @dreadnaught#5263 @terramak @nitocris83

I tag you all here today to discuss the GWF changes that were hinted to pretty much last year in a developer stream and see what you have to say on the topic. I watched the last developer stream you did and was told that TR's might be next? Did you forget about the GWF rework?

Here are my suggestions:
1. Totally rework instigator to make frontline surge and takedown prone like they used to in PvP. Currently they only STUN players. Put something else in the instigator capstone too its pretty lackluster compared to the other two.
2. Can we get a dodge frame or unstoppable immunity frame or two? You gave SW's one and currently GWF's are the only class without one. Since unstoppable got its HUGE temporary HP nerf I think its about time we look into this.
3. Can you possibly and I mean SERIOUSLY im begging you to make UNSTOPPABLE break out of TR's courage breaker. Its pretty much a death sentence in PvP at this moment with all the piercing damage and GF's murdering people in like 3 hits. Not letting us break out of courage breaker is crazy seeing how mobility is how we stay alive on a node with a couple of people.
4. Back to the courage breaker topic. When a gf gets CBED he can block right? When a tr, hr, dc, wizard or pally get cbed they can block/dodge right? Why can't gwf's and SW's shift or run? Seems like a major oversight to me.

I hope you all take this into consideration and if you see this post PLEASE POST a reply so we all know you are thinking about us PvPers. We feel extremely abandoned.

-Trent the Barbarian.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
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Comments

  • trentbail21
    trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    Please link any other developers here that I missed if anyone knows them so they have a better chance of seeing this.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • blur#5900
    blur#5900 Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    I am not a pvp player and i might be wrong how i see this. CB must be annoying but if you mess up with TR's dailies you can bury the class at the bottom of the ocean. If you get what you ask for, what else is there left for a TR to face a GWF? Every TR going SE until complains ruin SE too.
    Post edited by blur#5900 on
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  • jase2cool
    jase2cool Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 165 Arc User
    Also many GWF already notice, realized and experienced that GWF are no longer the top DPS (AKA King of DPS) the reality is just that we moved slightly faster compare to others.

    As even now i myself find it difficult to keep my dps up to pile with GF , CW and HR which of the same ilvl.

    Please do look into those facts and don't nerf our DPS .

  • santralafax
    santralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    Agreed. We have already been brougt "in line" with other classes.
  • trentbail21
    trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    This isnt a damage thing its a pvp class mechanic vs other class post. GWFs do enough. GF's are just way to OP.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited March 2017

    Regarding DPS with GWFs...

    Other classes can shield, aggro, buff, debuff, and heal, all in addition to doing their DPS. What does the GWF bring to the table? DPS. That's it. There is little, if nothing, that a GWF can bring into a party, except a big sword and the joy of swinging it. (At least I haven't found anything else). GWFs have poor defense, and a highly limited "sprint".

    Bringing GWFs damage "in line" with other classes is folly. If they can't bring a ton more damage to the party, then... why would a party want them at all?

    Buff instigator so they're a decent DPS/decent buffer like the SS Renegade.

    Give them damage stacks worth less than the Destroyer (or, interestingly, give them damage stacks that are easier to manage), but exchange it for some passive party buffs like bonus damage or bonus Crit chance.

    EDIT: I think I pressed the quote button twice lmao

  • merhunesdagon1
    merhunesdagon1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User

    jase2cool said:

    Also many GWF already notice, realized and experienced that GWF are no longer the top DPS (AKA King of DPS) the reality is just that we moved slightly faster compare to others.

    As even now i myself find it difficult to keep my dps up to pile with GF , CW and HR which of the same ilvl.

    Please do look into those facts and don't nerf our DPS .

    I had a flame fest yesterday over this. Basically we have to believe that GWF is the only DPS class in the game. No other class is even in the league of GWF. If you ever get beat by another class, you are a bad GWF.
    Currently the ranged classes are doing a little better than GWF. HRs are pretty much king for now, and GWFs aren't even keeping up with CWs. hell, BIS SW could probably match BIS GWF these days.
  • ghoulz66
    ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    They got real lazy with the DC, and ended up %#$&ing things up anyway. I have little faith the GWF will get any justice.
  • santralafax
    santralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    I am only aware of the HR having a "good" rework. Other classes seemed to be pretty much nerfed by theirs. Or am I wrong?

    How did the CW get better over time? Was it because of power creep or just the many mini-nerf's we've had last few mods?

    On a good note, did FBI with 3 gwf's yesterday and we demolished it!
  • trentbail21
    trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    Im not even sure if they look at this forum even though Ive tagged them in it. But here to hoping they do lol. I appreciate the unstoppable bug they fixed but they still have alot of work to do.

    Im not even worried about damage other then the fact that pvp GF's do more damage then GWF's and can actually block stuff. Seems a bit unfair if you ask me.

    Any possible communication would show us that you care and would be extremely appreciated.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • ghoulz66
    ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    GWF is in way dire straights than the TR. TR's trees are at least functional. TR just needs attention on some unused encounters and such. GWF needs more work done for it than even the HR got and they apparently are done with doing that much work now....
  • ragequittingdc#8599
    ragequittingdc#8599 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    just sub posting, not sure if the star on the thread does that, so yea
    im actually the gwf carry
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    I play TR, only tr, but I have some insight into gwfs do''s and don't's.

    If a tr hits you with courage breaker just leap off the screen...

    Courage breaker is the one skill that bypasses all counters. That is how the skill is designed. You can use symbol of air to escape once a tr hits you with courage breaker as well.

    You can also use armor enchants or ring's that turn you invisible.


    Gwf can do amazing damage with the right setup like most classes, but what else can they do? They have limited strong defenses, sprint to avoid red zones, leap to avoid strong damage effects or to remove themselves from the fight long enough to cool down an attack.

    Should Gwf get a rework before tr?
    Yes 100%
    If not before then at the same time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • ghoulz66
    ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    They need to go back over HR, GF and SW, those classes are just borked.

    You know in your heart all the kiddies will go berserk if trapper is put in its place where it deserves and archery adjusted to replace it as top dps.

  • ghoulz66
    ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    ghoulz66 said:

    They need to go back over HR, GF and SW, those classes are just borked.

    You know in your heart all the kiddies will go berserk if trapper is put in its place where it deserves and archery adjusted to replace it as top dps.

    They had no problems nerfing GWF, CW and SW in the past. I remember the Storm Spell nerf, totally unfair. Taking away GWF's Takedown Prone and nerfing Unstoppable in Mod 4. So, I do not understand the current "class balance". They nerf SW's TT, take away GWF temp HP, but buff GF and HR to the moon. So, I figure this time they will nerf Destroyer and say all done.
    Still pissed off that they caved in to the trapper crybabies.

    They went to far with the GWF nerfs. Roar was what was being abused and intimidation before that was over-nerfed. If they wAnted to adjust takedown just remove the cooldown reset on miss. That and frontline surge. GWF has no means other than a daily to lock down someone.

    Does it make much sense? GWF has to deal damage and receive a large portion to buff it's own damage. GF simply has to take a couple hits receive its buffs. On top of that they got to keep their ability to prone. GWF doesn't have the luxury of blocking out damage until encounters are off CD. It's like the trapper for PVE. It's way too perfectly optimized and abusable.
  • ghoulz66
    ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    My entire encounter load out is about buffing my at-wills.... Just to compete with others.... Very stupid indeed.

    Wish mighty leap was replaced with a jumping attack with your weapon. That sounds like some fun. Bored as hell with the GWF. IBS and that's it... And HAMSTER like.... ALL of the DC's AoE encounters deal twice or more damage than any of the GWF's encounters. What the hell's been going on for the past 3 years. GWF has been left with useless powers for entire lifespan of the game. DC out of any other class has the most powers that are usable, including offensive ones. Why can't that BS be applied for the HR, SW, GWF, and TR?

    WHY aren't the devs doing more to make all powers at least remotely viable or usable at least.
  • hamsterioustoon#6983
    hamsterioustoon#6983 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    I am an experienced GWf myself and i completely agree with those superb proposals.GWF needs serious buffs.


    "1. Totally rework instigator to make frontline surge and takedown prone like they used to in PvP. Currently they only STUN players. Put something else in the instigator capstone too its pretty lackluster compared to the other two."

    I agree i think all our powers need to prone our opponents.It could go as similar to manticore companion active power:

    We should have a feat that gives us a chance to prone our opponents if we strike a critical. 12/24/36% chance would do.

    "2. Can we get a dodge frame or unstoppable immunity frame or two? You gave SW's one and currently GWF's are the only class without one. Since unstoppable got its HUGE temporary HP nerf I think its about time we look into this."

    CW has an immunity frame after teleporting.I think it is fair GWf to have aswell.My thought is to have Steel Defense feature rework and give us immunity not during daily but after unstoppable ends.

    "3. Can you possibly and I mean SERIOUSLY im begging you to make UNSTOPPABLE break out of TR's courage breaker. Its pretty much a death sentence in PvP at this moment with all the piercing damage and GF's murdering people in like 3 hits. Not letting us break out of courage breaker is crazy seeing how mobility is how we stay alive on a node with a couple of people."

    Gf still reigns supreme both in pve/pvp.Class needs a serious rework ,defense reduce,damage reduce and speed reduce.And shield reduce ,they have infinite stamina.
    They share this problem with Op which even worst has 360 degrees block.I think as healing depression exists ,guard depression should exist aswell and halve GF/OP stamina by 50% when they enter pvp.
    As for SWs this class is bugged forever and SWs always ask for buffs.
    TRs spam cc powers ,CB starts then smoke bomb ,they go to DF and then it is smoke bomb again.Class is broken.
    I think activating unstopable should break any CC.This is supposed to be,we are barbarians,berserkers how a tiny smoke bomb is dazing us it is beyond me.

    Also to add,as other have said before me ,we need weapon damage increase and our buffs to have s horter activation time.Destro capstone etc you name it.It is absurd.
  • merhunesdagon1
    merhunesdagon1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited March 2017

    jase2cool said:

    Also many GWF already notice, realized and experienced that GWF are no longer the top DPS (AKA King of DPS) the reality is just that we moved slightly faster compare to others.

    As even now i myself find it difficult to keep my dps up to pile with GF , CW and HR which of the same ilvl.

    Please do look into those facts and don't nerf our DPS .

    I had a flame fest yesterday over this. Basically we have to believe that GWF is the only DPS class in the game. No other class is even in the league of GWF. If you ever get beat by another class, you are a bad GWF.
    Currently the ranged classes are doing a little better than GWF. HRs are pretty much king for now, and GWFs aren't even keeping up with CWs. hell, BIS SW could probably match BIS GWF these days.
    ANYTIME I say that I am told I am a horrible GWF and/or that I am lying. The other classes are weak and can't match GWF even on a good day, that is what I am told. So, I guess we are all just crappy GWFs.
    At end game the DPS is so close the advantage GWF have over other striker classes is not even noticeable. If a rework comes GWF is back to pre lostmauth times, which are dark days for the class....And my money would be on SW or HR to take that paingiver title.
  • vida44
    vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    I don't think there should be an immunity in the Sprint. That just doesn't make any sense if you are thinking logically. Have you ever ran and were you immune to damage? No. If you are thinking about SW's, well yeah, but they don't sprint/run. They go into Shadow Slip (wiki is incorrect for the tooltip btw). They will slip into shadows so you can't hit them while they do that. Logical.

    But triggering an immunity while going Unstoppable for a GWF. That makes more sense. It would have to have a cooldown of course so not to spam it. And it would be completely ok and reasonable. My fellow SW always says on the Blue dragon "You all died, but luckily for me I had immunity at the right time".

    The downside (since we all have to have some with it) is that we HAVE TO go unstoppable every now and then (our big damage boost) so we can't time it perfectly. So it would be more of a random occurrence and, sometimes, a life saver.
  • muckingfuppet
    muckingfuppet Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    gwf needs be like the gf and only need 5 stacks of destroyer not 10 and not need to be in unstoppable to get them, things die so fast that 10 stacks while unstoppable takes too long
  • vida44
    vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User

    vida44 said:

    I don't think there should be an immunity in the Sprint. That just doesn't make any sense if you are thinking logically. Have you ever ran and were you immune to damage? No. If you are thinking about SW's, well yeah, but they don't sprint/run. They go into Shadow Slip (wiki is incorrect for the tooltip btw). They will slip into shadows so you can't hit them while they do that. Logical.

    But triggering an immunity while going Unstoppable for a GWF. That makes more sense. It would have to have a cooldown of course so not to spam it. And it would be completely ok and reasonable. My fellow SW always says on the Blue dragon "You all died, but luckily for me I had immunity at the right time".

    The downside (since we all have to have some with it) is that we HAVE TO go unstoppable every now and then (our big damage boost) so we can't time it perfectly. So it would be more of a random occurrence and, sometimes, a life saver.

    That would not work in PVP or at the beginning of fights. It would be like not having one at all. SE kills GWF when we are out of combat and with no Unstoppable. It is also hard to build Determination in PVP due to Tenacity. After thinking about it, it must be from Sprint.
    Don't go chasing TR's at the start. And upping base damage should help with building determination. I think I saw that written somewhere as a suggestion. PvP in general should have a totaly different path and everything else so I'm commenting only from a PvE point of view and for balancing that.

    P.S. To be honest PvP can't be balanced anyway in this game without some serious changes in the games core.