Please make Mod 11 weapons on par with Relic weapons

13

Comments

  • trgluestickz
    trgluestickz Member Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    I did not say better. I said on par. Which is as they are right now on Preview. These guys want them nerfed so they can be king of the world. Quite odd, but the way it is. Not sure when PVE became so elitist and dog-eat-dog. lol

    I agree with you that several of the talking points of those asking for the new weapons to be less powerful than the relic weapons are elitist talking points and this should be pointed out. However, I also think that most of the people who argued those points weren't cackling and rubbing their hands together over the prospect of hurting their fellow man. More than likely most of these people simply did not think their request through well enough and simply were trying to avoid getting shafted. Unfortunately, they went about avoiding the shaft in a way that whether intentional or not, hurts players and denies the majority access to a much better and more sane way of obtaining BIS weapons.

    On the flip side, I have also seen some very one sided requests from the players who did ask for the new weapons to be as good as relic or better. Some of these people did not want the people who went after the relic weapons to receive any compensation. I even saw a few that were gleeful that those who ground for relic weapons got screwed.

    The way I see it, there is no need for either side of this debate to get the shaft. Its completely avoidable and both sides conserns are valid and should be adressed.
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  • santralafax
    santralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    weaver936 said:

    The key change in the middle of the module has created an unfair playing field. Something radical has to happen to correct it. This should not be a pattern going forward, some players getting an advantage and then preserving that advantage for 6 months to a year. This is truly a scandal.

    The key change was known about for a month or more before it happened.. it was intended to go live before Mod 10.5... but people raged and ranted and the devs postponed it.. so NOW.. some other people (or the same ones) want to whine about the effects of the consideration the devs showed the community as a whole? When will it stop?
    I really don't think it should stop. They key change was claimed to be an exploit by the developers. Patently false claim. The reason for the key change was to sell more Legendary Dragon Keys, pure and simple. From my perspective, superior mark rate appears nerfed--I was getting more marks AND the option to decline before key change than after.
  • weaver936
    weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User

    weaver936 said:

    The key change in the middle of the module has created an unfair playing field. Something radical has to happen to correct it. This should not be a pattern going forward, some players getting an advantage and then preserving that advantage for 6 months to a year. This is truly a scandal.

    The key change was known about for a month or more before it happened.. it was intended to go live before Mod 10.5... but people raged and ranted and the devs postponed it.. so NOW.. some other people (or the same ones) want to whine about the effects of the consideration the devs showed the community as a whole? When will it stop?
    I really don't think it should stop. They key change was claimed to be an exploit by the developers. Patently false claim. The reason for the key change was to sell more Legendary Dragon Keys, pure and simple. From my perspective, superior mark rate appears nerfed--I was getting more marks AND the option to decline before key change than after.
    What no one seems to understand or acknowledge is taht there is ALOT more ability to earn ad (for MOST PEOPLE) playing the game now that before Mod 10. Before only the high end really made alot of ad. So.. if you factor in increased free ad in game.. buying some Legendary Keys isn't even a problem.
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  • mightyeriksson
    mightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    weaver936 said:


    ... if you factor in increased free ad in game.. buying some Legendary Keys isn't even a problem.


    An alliance member used 320+ keys to get enough legendary marks for his off-hand, and isn't even close to finishing the main-hand...

    So yeah, some legendary keys...

  • santralafax
    santralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    He really should have done the mainhand and called it a day.
  • mightyeriksson
    mightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User

    He really should have done the mainhand and called it a day.

    Yeah, a lot of players in my alliance doesn't care about cost/-effiency is, as long as they are first to link it in the chat...

    I'll probably finish the relic weapons/armor on my GWF, but won't bother with the rest of the alts.

    One can only hope the devs grows some balls and revert Firesoul back to what it originally was...
  • weaver936
    weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    He really should have done the mainhand and called it a day.

    Yeah, a lot of players in my alliance doesn't care about cost/-effiency is, as long as they are first to link it in the chat...

    I'll probably finish the relic weapons/armor on my GWF, but won't bother with the rest of the alts.

    One can only hope the devs grows some balls and revert Firesoul back to what it originally was...
    Balls and no Brains?

    I think the Devs are demonstrating LONG TERM Planning... unlike they seem to do normally. and this is GREAT. However their long term planning is causing Short Sighted Impulse buyers some real discomfort. But if we ever hope to have Guilds and Alliances in game that serve a real long term purpose then there needs to be Long term Goals WORTHY of achieve in game.. (guild boons are a good start). Weapons that are valid past 1/2 a mod or 2 mods would be nice too. That way guilds/alliances have some motivation to help their members out to get them... even new members that just came to game a few months ago.
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



    Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.


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  • mightyeriksson
    mightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    weaver936 said:

    He really should have done the mainhand and called it a day.

    Yeah, a lot of players in my alliance doesn't care about cost/-effiency is, as long as they are first to link it in the chat...

    I'll probably finish the relic weapons/armor on my GWF, but won't bother with the rest of the alts.

    One can only hope the devs grows some balls and revert Firesoul back to what it originally was...
    Balls and no Brains?

    I think the Devs are demonstrating LONG TERM Planning... unlike they seem to do normally. and this is GREAT. However their long term planning is causing Short Sighted Impulse buyers some real discomfort. But if we ever hope to have Guilds and Alliances in game that serve a real long term purpose then there needs to be Long term Goals WORTHY of achieve in game.. (guild boons are a good start). Weapons that are valid past 1/2 a mod or 2 mods would be nice too. That way guilds/alliances have some motivation to help their members out to get them... even new members that just came to game a few months ago.
    I am fairly sure that the majority of the players want the m11 weapons to be (at least) on par with M10.5.

    It makes fiscal sense to keep the majority of the spenders happy, and the small minority that complains and wants M10.5 weapons strongest, are spending a lot less money than those who want M11 equally strong...

    That is LONG TERM planning, keep the majority happy and spending.

    In reality, there are no reasons at all to keep M11 weaker than M10.5, everyone is free to get the M11 weapons under the same conditions, but the majority have to buy several hundred keys to get the M10.5 weapons to legendary.

  • rickcase276
    rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,399 Arc User
    I am fairly certain the majority of the players will not care one way or the other. If the Mod11 weapons are better for how they play, they will get them. I suspect there is a lot more casual players that play this game than high ilevel mega-gamers. And the Mod 11 weapons are, if anything, more casual friendly than the Mod 10.5 weapons, even more alt friendly.
  • weaver936
    weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    weaver936 said:

    He really should have done the mainhand and called it a day.

    Yeah, a lot of players in my alliance doesn't care about cost/-effiency is, as long as they are first to link it in the chat...

    I'll probably finish the relic weapons/armor on my GWF, but won't bother with the rest of the alts.

    One can only hope the devs grows some balls and revert Firesoul back to what it originally was...
    Balls and no Brains?

    I think the Devs are demonstrating LONG TERM Planning... unlike they seem to do normally. and this is GREAT. However their long term planning is causing Short Sighted Impulse buyers some real discomfort. But if we ever hope to have Guilds and Alliances in game that serve a real long term purpose then there needs to be Long term Goals WORTHY of achieve in game.. (guild boons are a good start). Weapons that are valid past 1/2 a mod or 2 mods would be nice too. That way guilds/alliances have some motivation to help their members out to get them... even new members that just came to game a few months ago.
    I am fairly sure that the majority of the players want the m11 weapons to be (at least) on par with M10.5.

    It makes fiscal sense to keep the majority of the spenders happy, and the small minority that complains and wants M10.5 weapons strongest, are spending a lot less money than those who want M11 equally strong...

    That is LONG TERM planning, keep the majority happy and spending.

    In reality, there are no reasons at all to keep M11 weaker than M10.5, everyone is free to get the M11 weapons under the same conditions, but the majority have to buy several hundred keys to get the M10.5 weapons to legendary.

    It's Fiscally sound to keep the majority of players happy UNLESS that majority is the type that you HAVE to continually push your work force beyond their capacity to produce unsophisticated and temporarily relevant content that needs to be replaced in a matter of months. Perhaps the Devs are finally realising the need to provide content that drives it's player base to establish longer term relationships and interests in game so they can hold on to their players longer... instead of having to replace THEM or provide more eye candy the very next mod that's relevant for 1 mod, each and every mod.

    I don't think it's fiscally sound to operate NW like a Drug Dealer.... constantly feeding the player bases' addiction to Instant Gratification, Mindless repetitive slash and burn content, that by it's nature is temporarily interesting.

    This is all fine and dandy when a game is new in general or new to an individual... because ALL content is new and fun and interesting then.... and the Man Hours invested in said content is gaining a Return on investment from every NEW player.. but if those are the only people the Devs care about then they are trapped. They are constantly trapped trying to Supply a New HIGH...

    If however, they are shifting the game to a more long term progress and relevant content model.. then they can manage the game with less overhead (and man hours) to provide content that is interesting and rewarding for the right types of players that are more interested in the working hard for something WORTH WHILE and not having it replaced quickly.

    Fiscal Soundness needs both type of players.. sure.. but, in all honesty... the lion's share of the community up to this point has been more Free Players looking for the next high than people that want to invest and build something meaningful in game.

    It's GREAT that new content is at 3.1k now... the more serious players are WELL past the previous norm for content IL mins. The best and more costly items are all at a price point that is ridiculous if you really don't NEED to have them item to do content.. and you are limited by the new key system... so the Complexity and Difficulty of Dungeons and the mobs in them have to evolve to the point where spending 5 million+ on a single item makes since when dealing with the currently most potentially profitable/benefitial content in game. Not to mention that Guild boons will be more useful and desirable for mid ranged guilds now that the content is more difficult.

    Squatting in a game.. barely contributing to it's success.. even over the period of years does not warrant people an immediate SAY in what the game company should or shouldn't do. The game does need people to make it interesting... but it needs to be the right kind of people... otherwise the game itself has a TOXIC and Exploitative nature... just like the community it caters to.

    This game has been getting HEALTHIER since Mod 7... and Mod 10 was great for that too... even though most of what Mod 10 did visibly is expose the sickness in the community that's existed for a long time now. Now with that exposed... maybe the Devs can more clearly see what needs to be done to cure the illness... and not just medicate it with more easy and pointless content.

    Illusionists Gambit seems like a medication to me... stand in a circle.. kill constantly... oooo Pretty loot... good for you Instant Gratification guys... (too bad I'll have to do that mindless *bleep* to get what I need) but, I'M gonna focus on FBI... esva... and SPC Master. Because it's fun.. interesting.. and rewarding AND most of all I can do it with people that aren't PUG Groups... or treat me like I'm their Pet/Companion in game. It's content that actually REQUIRES people to communicate and cooperate... FINALLY. And Item Level isn't the MOST important consideration in doing that content at all.
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  • waywardwizard#4349
    waywardwizard#4349 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Well well, sticking with twisted and drowned for another mod I see. Saving all my RP and AD and of course €

    Staying away from boring grind for new weapons might be just the thing the players need in order to actually have some fun playing the game.

    Tnx devs
    Post edited by waywardwizard#4349 on
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    The majority of people didn't even care for mod 10.5 weapons.
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  • rickcase276
    rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,399 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I suspect the majority of players that played Mod 10-10.5 content did it more out of having nothing better to do, or because it was there to do. I did it strictly for the boons and the armor, to be honest. Casual players are the majority, not the hardcore gamers.
  • neverwinterdevil
    neverwinterdevil Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 74 Arc User
    first of all msva is out of reach for many players who even though meet the il req they can't find a group to run with, also some classes are being overlooked when grouping for msva. so making the new weapons at least as strong as the relic ones, if not stronger since it's a new mod, would be fair to everyone who doesn't have the relic weapons or can't upgrade them because the marks they need don't drop and the grind is endless and useless.
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    Spending 10s of millions of AD or grind for many more months for a weapon that some people got for 900k AD in less than a week is not going to drive anybody to do content. I will not rest until the Mod 11 weapons are worth using.

    Well, for some classes/builds they are certainly worth using. For some, they may even be better than the Relic weapons, due to the set bonuses, while for others, well....relic weapons are clearly better.

    Well well, sticking with twisted and drowned for another mod I see. Saving all my RP and AD and of course €

    I basically decided to ignore M10/M10.5 except for the boons - the boons are useful, and grinding for them is not that hard. The relic weapons, on the other hand - I decided to ignore those. First because the set bonus is not really of interest to me, and second because just getting into mSVA is hard when you are basically on the "not wanted" list because of your class/build.

    This is one reason why the M11 weapons are so appealing to me - they are an upgrade from what I have (Drowned set), and they are relatively easy to get/upgrade - yeah, there is some grinding, but nothing compared to the Relic weapons.

    This is why I think that many (perhaps most) of the people who haven't gotten the Relic weapons by now whill just decide to skip them altogether and go for the M11 weapons instead, even if they are not "perfect" for them.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • waywardwizard#4349
    waywardwizard#4349 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I managed to unlock the first 4 boons of M10/M10.5 on my main character and that would be it. Funny thing is that he can finally enter FBI (got the everfrost resistance) and he would be welcomed since he's a 4k tank. The problem is I genuinely want nothing to do with M10/M10.5 anymore than I already have.

    I think I'll just be playing my alts and leveling my brand new ranger while waiting for mod 11.
  • btairborne
    btairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User

    For me it is a matter of fairness. Everyone should have a chance at BIS weapons, not just the lucky ones who got them before the key change.

    Everyone does have the same chance as before the key change, It just costs more now if you want to get it faster because of key costs.

    If that is what you meant, I can see how you think that is unfair, but MMOs change all the time. You may also feel it is unfair your Vorpal may not be your best weapon enchantment choice after next month after spending millions of AD on it. You may find it not fair they are not apparently going to nerf Companion Loyalty items so only those with tons of AD or had them beforehand will ever have those BIS items. You might find it unfair that Owlbear companion was nerfed after spending millions of AD on that. You might find it unfair how much BIS Legendary mounts cost and there is no way to really get one except buy it and due to low supply the cost is ever increasing (and will apparently never stop). Point is, a lot of things are unfair. Just like life.





  • weaver936
    weaver936 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    It's not "fair" that I didn't make a billion AD from leadership before they changed it... It's not Fair that I didn't buy Coalescent and preservation wards with Trade bars...It's not fair that I didn't get to use the gateway before they changed it... It's not fair that....

    Wanna list some other things? Or just keep crying about 1 of a LONG LIST of things that changed that later players don't get to take advantage of.

    In an MMO that is something that happens CONSTANTLY!!!! The longer term players have a LOT of opportunities that new players will never have. and the newer players will have opportunities that players after them will never have. The BEST thing an individual can do is take the SAME intellectual and emotional energy used to rage about how things aren't fair and apply that to things you can do to better your position in game and strengthen your account to mitigate whatever other damage might come to you by other changes they haven't implemented yet.

    I know you don't care about all that.. it's too much work and thinking.. but, it's your ONLY real solution to your current problem.

    AND ALSO.... Console players benefit HUGELY by the HOURS and MILLIONS OF AD that PC players lose to figuring out new content.. dealing with Bugs and changes that we get almost NO advanced warning about. You may lose "millions" to get your marks.. but what about the 10's 100's of millions (maybe billions overall) lost so that Console players can avoid all the trouble that we have to deal with FACE to FACE and in the raw? Is that fair?
    “Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”

    ― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge



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  • tom#6998
    tom#6998 Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Its ok for me if the new ones are on paar with relic but dont revert the firesole change. The firesoul weapons were insanely broken op on preview
  • vida44
    vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User

    No, it does not work that way. One paying 900k and another having to pay what? 10-20 mill? Then the ones who paid 900k have the nerve to campaign to get Mod 11 weapons nerfed. Unreal.... Mod 11 weapons have to be on par with Relic weapons. Also, I can afford any weapon enchantment I want. I would not use the owlbear cub bug. I have Loyal gear. I can save for an orange mount, so... This is not just about me, this is about everybody who did not get orange marks before the key change and most of them would rather buy an orange mount than spend that much AD on marks, I am sure. But, they deserve BIS weapons. This can be made right.

    The Relic Weapons vs Mod 11 Weapons have the same relation as Twisted vs EE Weapons. I really have no idea why are you still on about this.

    Firesoul was performing way over the Relic before they toned it down. The bonus was performing more like eLOL set before. If you can't see that then this whole thread is pointless.

    The amount of grind you have to do to get Relic and Mod11 weapons (be it before key change or after) is so drastic that you really can't be asking for them to be on par. They still have the same base damage but the bonus separates them and for a DPS toon Relic is by far the best option. Although the others are not that far behind. We are talking maybe 5% DPS difference.

    The same relation was made with Twisted vs EE Weapons. Twisted was the best for DPS classes, the others were more support weapons.

    Instead of making your case about weapons being on par you should be focusing on asking marks from SVA to be unbound with a higher drop rate chance so we can all get them without that insane grind.
  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    +1 to your post AND NO MORE WAILING AND NASHING OF TEETH AND RIVERS OF TEARS!
  • armwald
    armwald Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    XBOX 4+K HR

    Mod 10 & 10.5 have been a real bore. I see no reason to do any of these areas and could care less if the Mod 11 Artifact weapons are the same or a less as long as they are easier to get and better than twisted.

    I spend my time doing as many dungeons on my alts OP GF and pile up the AD

    The equip and weapons and most of the boons in Mod 10 & 10.5 are not worth the time and AD
  • thornbr1nger
    thornbr1nger Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    Question - how does a legendary orange mod 11 weapon compare to a purple relic weapon ? As it seems it's not too difficult to get the relic to purple. Also as it stands now which model 11 weapons is coming out tops on dps (is it still firesoul?) Thanks
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    If I knew there are 4 new sets coming up the next mod, easily to obtain, I would not have gone that path by sure. I read about those comments from devs "Relic will be BIS for some time"...
    I will never ever believe anthing from that side again, there is no plan for tomorrow obviously, things change in 5 min.
    The grind was brainless. Thx cryptic :(

    Relic: 3,3% +damage is the average ammount a relic setbonus deals (1/3 of time), in case you do no dodge the wrong moment, otherwise you will get nothing from interest.

    The new feytouchedbonus is BIS for my DC, 10% AP gain, +3% outgoing damage, +6% outgoing heals, wtf ?
    ...maybe it´s even bis for several striker classes same as tanks, due to ap gain (warlock f.e.)

    The lifeforgedbonus , hmm can´t tell 15% of your defense towards power.
    If you run a GWF having feats like Steely defence, spending 20% of your DR towards power, you run rank 12 Azures in your companion+defenseslots at BIS, getting a lot of power from that feat, same as disciple of war.
    Put a DC on top with AA +2k defense. DG/AS doesn´t appear in chart but we know this means nothing. Maybe negation will also get into account? Take 3/3 for armor specialisation and countless scars +15% DR
    If you take things like shepards devotion 1-3k DR+, Cavalrys warning (10% + defense! ), protectors camarady/friendship +4% DR etc. this will be a nice buff from maybe 2k power up to maybe 4k+, in theory. Before it was 4-8k power.

    Master of illusion, no clue.
    A fix 3% damage, 10% vs shielded targets/temp HP.
    If you get a fix 10% damageincrease against bosses it is even better than relicbonus, wich is depending on lottery/dodge or not.
    If not we talk about 2% less damage in the sum.

    Anyway I predict a lot of unhealthy crying and disbalance coming up in mod 11, thinking about new weaponenchants and classes that benefit immensely, other´s not.
    Guess it´s better to retreat on my supporter class or PVP to prevent more headache :)