BUG: Weapon Enchantment powers will no proc on targets Frozen via CW Chills. Tested versus: Lightning, Flaming, Dread, Feytouched.
Here is feytouched proccing vs a frozen target with ray of frost:
I used Ray of Frost until the target is frozen, then channeled a few more hits and cast chill strike. If you are having a problem with frozen preventing weapon enchantment procs, then it is likely a problem with some other feat interfering.
Updated. Looks like it's limited to just Ray of Frost on frozen targets. Updated my other post with the SS from ACT.
@ironzerg79 I can confirm the bug exists for Flaming, Dread, Frost, Holy Avenger, Bilethorn, Terror, Plaguefire and Lightning. It does not however exist on Feytouched. Idk what makes Feytouched so special, but it avoids the bug.
My method for testing was to have 2 weapons, 1 without the enchant and 1 with it. I would freeze the target with the weapon without the enchant, switch to the other weapon, then attack with the enchant. Interestingly enough I learned in the process that when you attack with Icy Terrain for example, it snapshots whatever weapon+equipment is currently on that weapon, so for example if you cast Icy Terrain with a weapon that has a dread slotted and switch to a weapon with a vorpal, it won't change the damage bonus on the crits from the 75 crit sev to 50.
But agreed, the only skill that bugs out is ray of frost, if you attack with any other skill, it does still apply the weapon enchantments.
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited January 2017
I've only tested on bilethorn, on gwf enchants also respect the rule that if power is aoe and is boosted, damage from WE will be boosted, powers that affect bilethorn, not listed dont affect....yep trample the fallen too -.-"
Intimitation doesn’t proc bilethorn or any weapon enchantment.
I made some DPS test on BiS level for GWF and HR for several enchants, this is only relative to single target, multi target is very tricky to do on dummies.
And yep i repeated H.Avenger test....so far all classes i tried flaming falls behind as a pure dps enchantment, as life drinker or H.avenger have the "excuse" to underperform flaming doesn't.
About Fey. Only one player can get the buff from Fey about one monster. Therefore, all players will not be able to replace Vorpal on Fey.
This is one thing I'd like to see fixed coming out of the rework. While you can work around it by having everyone in your party use different enchants or at least enchants whose debuffs/buffs stack, it's annoying that you put 5-8+ million AD into a weapon enchantment and then if one other person in your party has the same enchant it makes yours pointless.
2
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
It's the number one reason why, even if Fey was declared "BiS" for everyone, I'd never recommend it.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
1
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
About Fey. Only one player can get the buff from Fey about one monster. Therefore, all players will not be able to replace Vorpal on Fey.
Nope GWF gets all the time. HR/SW/CW get it 1/2 times into battle even without fey in the group(this doesn't apply to pvp). Honestly i'm more worried with lightning than fey i made some logs where reducing the scalabe buff in dungeouns would make lightning compose 35% of total player damage, this may not seem much but it wasn't dps it was %, so lightning weapon damage was abble to get that amount even with the damage from encounters increase severely by the cooldown.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2017
Here are my tests from the past 2 days:
Terror Spreadsheet^
Nothing spectacular to note about terror that has not been said about the previous enchantments. Can refer to Michela's debuff spreadsheet for the debuff.
Feytouched Spreadsheet^
The buff value for feytouched is 18%, it does 18% weapon damage and it has the 2 debuffs on enemies. Hits that proc feytouched do not benefit from the buff, only hits after the buff is up do. Also, feytouched procs off most hits of FtF and it procs off of shard, unlike other weapon enchants tested so far, but whatever XD Now, feytouched has a lot of bugs.
Bug: Feytouched and CW Daily Powers.
The Feytouched hit for 18% weapon damage does not proc off of CW dailies.
Bug: Feytouched+Icy Rays.
If there is only a single target nearby and you use Icy Rays against it, it will proc Feytouched 3 times. If there are multiple targets and you target only 1 of them, it will proc Feytouched twice against the main enemy and once against all enemies nearby. Storm Spell also behaves this way. Example:
There are 4 dummies in this test, the main dummy gets hit twice by feytouched, the other 3 all get hit once.
Bug: Feytouched and Sudden Storm on Mastery.
The DoT applied by Sudden Storm on mastery appears to be an entity and is counted as an enemy, as it gets debuffed by the feytouched enchantment and does base damage*0.85*0.85 damage when you have feytouched slotted.
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've been looking into some of these things. I had hoped to have some stuff for today's patch, but unfortunately a bunch of other things intervened, and then the "low hanging fruit" fix I started in on turned out to be way more complicated than I thought it would be.
But I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, and that I definitely appreciate all the feedback.
I will definitely let you know of any changes that do get made when they hit playtest, so that nobody's testing gets scrambled.
Let me give you a little background on where we're at with these enchants so you know what to expect. This whole set of fixes started out a while back with us realizing we wanted to improve weapon and armor enchants, but realizing we didn't have the resources to tackle them all at once. So we decided to fix them 2 at a time (1 armor, 1 weapon). The idea was to keep the fixes pretty simple, but to give them buffs if they needed them. I was up for Flaming and Barkskin. Since Flaming is pretty much pure damage, I felt I had to fix the damage on it, which led to all those thoughts about scaling. So (as described in my original post) I decided to "turn on" the scaling.
Since this was one "simple" fix, I figured I'd do it to all the weapon enchants at once (with hindsight, that may have been too ambitious!). That mostly worked -- *except* it meant a bunch of weapon enchantments nobody had looked at in a while now were much more high-profile. So all sorts of old bugs came to the fore. (As far as I know, none of the things people are finding are things that the scaling broke -- the scaling tech itself is pretty simple -- other than obviously scaling-related stuff like "X scales but Y does not" or "tooltip scaling, but power is not".)
Unfortunately, we don't currently have time allotted to "fix all the bugs with weapon and armor enchants". But I don't want to just give up. So here is my plan:
Fix any scaling-specific issues (like stuff that is supposed to be scaling but just isn't, eg, Bilethorn second hit)
Balance any numbers that are out of control because of scaling. Currently on my list, based on everyone's feedback, is:
Lower Feytouched dramatically (I'm thinking around 60-70%).
Lower Lightning significantly (currently I'm thinking around 30-40%).
Any other low-hanging fruit we can grab in the time we have.
Put the rest of the issues in the backlog.
Agitate for some more resources to address those issues.
If people really hate the above, the other alternative would be just to revert all the changes entirely (so everything just keeps working the way it does now on live) and put a big "fix all bugs with weapon and armor enchants, and then scale them" into the backlog. My inclination is to keep going as above, because I think the game will be better with the enchants scaling (again, assuming really critical bugs are fixed) than not. But I am willing to do the "just revert everything" plan (or maybe "just revert everything but Flaming", although that's a bit weird) if there's a real consensus that's better.
In the meantime, please do keep the bugs and balance feedback coming -- they are helpful no matter what -- and I hope that we can get something good in for weapon enchants this next module, and then keep improving after that.
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've been looking into some of these things. I had hoped to have some stuff for today's patch, but unfortunately a bunch of other things intervened, and then the "low hanging fruit" fix I started in on turned out to be way more complicated than I thought it would be.
But I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, and that I definitely appreciate all the feedback.
I will definitely let you know of any changes that do get made when they hit playtest, so that nobody's testing gets scrambled.
Let me give you a little background on where we're at with these enchants so you know what to expect. This whole set of fixes started out a while back with us realizing we wanted to improve weapon and armor enchants, but realizing we didn't have the resources to tackle them all at once. So we decided to fix them 2 at a time (1 armor, 1 weapon). The idea was to keep the fixes pretty simple, but to give them buffs if they needed them. I was up for Flaming and Barkskin. Since Flaming is pretty much pure damage, I felt I had to fix the damage on it, which led to all those thoughts about scaling. So (as described in my original post) I decided to "turn on" the scaling.
Since this was one "simple" fix, I figured I'd do it to all the weapon enchants at once (with hindsight, that may have been too ambitious!). That mostly worked -- *except* it meant a bunch of weapon enchantments nobody had looked at in a while now were much more high-profile. So all sorts of old bugs came to the fore. (As far as I know, none of the things people are finding are things that the scaling broke -- the scaling tech itself is pretty simple -- other than obviously scaling-related stuff like "X scales but Y does not" or "tooltip scaling, but power is not".)
Unfortunately, we don't currently have time allotted to "fix all the bugs with weapon and armor enchants". But I don't want to just give up. So here is my plan:
Fix any scaling-specific issues (like stuff that is supposed to be scaling but just isn't, eg, Bilethorn second hit)
Balance any numbers that are out of control because of scaling. Currently on my list, based on everyone's feedback, is:
Lower Feytouched dramatically (I'm thinking around 60-70%).
Lower Lightning significantly (currently I'm thinking around 30-40%).
Any other low-hanging fruit we can grab in the time we have.
Put the rest of the issues in the backlog.
Agitate for some more resources to address those issues.
If people really hate the above, the other alternative would be just to revert all the changes entirely (so everything just keeps working the way it does now on live) and put a big "fix all bugs with weapon and armor enchants, and then scale them" into the backlog. My inclination is to keep going as above, because I think the game will be better with the enchants scaling (again, assuming really critical bugs are fixed) than not. But I am willing to do the "just revert everything" plan (or maybe "just revert everything but Flaming", although that's a bit weird) if there's a real consensus that's better.
In the meantime, please do keep the bugs and balance feedback coming -- they are helpful no matter what -- and I hope that we can get something good in for weapon enchants this next module, and then keep improving after that.
sounds like a solid plan with the limited resources you have. Are you all taking a look at how some enchantments (feytouched) have constant uptime, but the others have longer cooldowns for some reason?
Any chance we could get all enchants on same cooldown as feytouched? it would really help their usability. (it is really hard to keep up with which 4 seconds they are really active
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
1
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited January 2017
Reverting it all would be highly disappointing. We wait long enough as it for changes.
@rgutscheradev I´d say go on with the fixes. In case somthing got utterly broken you need to readjust in time, and not in month please. Speaking for myself it may be some kind of interesting by "mixing the cards" again, no clue what enchant will be the next to go for. I do not care about my own feytouched, vorpal, bronzewood, dread enchant and can also live with the fact that those will get outnumbered by other enchants. Even the crazy ups and downs for some enchants in the AH are some kind of entertaining.
1
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
About flaming, can anyone confirm if the DoT doesn't stack at all? Needs quite a huge buff to it.
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've been looking into some of these things. I had hoped to have some stuff for today's patch, but unfortunately a bunch of other things intervened, and then the "low hanging fruit" fix I started in on turned out to be way more complicated than I thought it would be.
But I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, and that I definitely appreciate all the feedback.
I will definitely let you know of any changes that do get made when they hit playtest, so that nobody's testing gets scrambled.
Let me give you a little background on where we're at with these enchants so you know what to expect. This whole set of fixes started out a while back with us realizing we wanted to improve weapon and armor enchants, but realizing we didn't have the resources to tackle them all at once. So we decided to fix them 2 at a time (1 armor, 1 weapon). The idea was to keep the fixes pretty simple, but to give them buffs if they needed them. I was up for Flaming and Barkskin. Since Flaming is pretty much pure damage, I felt I had to fix the damage on it, which led to all those thoughts about scaling. So (as described in my original post) I decided to "turn on" the scaling.
Since this was one "simple" fix, I figured I'd do it to all the weapon enchants at once (with hindsight, that may have been too ambitious!). That mostly worked -- *except* it meant a bunch of weapon enchantments nobody had looked at in a while now were much more high-profile. So all sorts of old bugs came to the fore. (As far as I know, none of the things people are finding are things that the scaling broke -- the scaling tech itself is pretty simple -- other than obviously scaling-related stuff like "X scales but Y does not" or "tooltip scaling, but power is not".)
Unfortunately, we don't currently have time allotted to "fix all the bugs with weapon and armor enchants". But I don't want to just give up. So here is my plan:
Fix any scaling-specific issues (like stuff that is supposed to be scaling but just isn't, eg, Bilethorn second hit)
Balance any numbers that are out of control because of scaling. Currently on my list, based on everyone's feedback, is:
Lower Feytouched dramatically (I'm thinking around 60-70%).
Lower Lightning significantly (currently I'm thinking around 30-40%).
Any other low-hanging fruit we can grab in the time we have.
Put the rest of the issues in the backlog.
Agitate for some more resources to address those issues.
If people really hate the above, the other alternative would be just to revert all the changes entirely (so everything just keeps working the way it does now on live) and put a big "fix all bugs with weapon and armor enchants, and then scale them" into the backlog. My inclination is to keep going as above, because I think the game will be better with the enchants scaling (again, assuming really critical bugs are fixed) than not. But I am willing to do the "just revert everything" plan (or maybe "just revert everything but Flaming", although that's a bit weird) if there's a real consensus that's better.
In the meantime, please do keep the bugs and balance feedback coming -- they are helpful no matter what -- and I hope that we can get something good in for weapon enchants this next module, and then keep improving after that.
These nerfs look quite harsh to me. I mean, from what I have seen Lightning is out of control for CW specifically 'cause they can multi-proc it.
These % nerfs are really high imo. We'll need to test how it is because Vorpal could be once again the one dominating
2
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've been looking into some of these things. I had hoped to have some stuff for today's patch, but unfortunately a bunch of other things intervened, and then the "low hanging fruit" fix I started in on turned out to be way more complicated than I thought it would be.
But I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, and that I definitely appreciate all the feedback.
I will definitely let you know of any changes that do get made when they hit playtest, so that nobody's testing gets scrambled.
Let me give you a little background on where we're at with these enchants so you know what to expect. This whole set of fixes started out a while back with us realizing we wanted to improve weapon and armor enchants, but realizing we didn't have the resources to tackle them all at once. So we decided to fix them 2 at a time (1 armor, 1 weapon). The idea was to keep the fixes pretty simple, but to give them buffs if they needed them. I was up for Flaming and Barkskin. Since Flaming is pretty much pure damage, I felt I had to fix the damage on it, which led to all those thoughts about scaling. So (as described in my original post) I decided to "turn on" the scaling.
Since this was one "simple" fix, I figured I'd do it to all the weapon enchants at once (with hindsight, that may have been too ambitious!). That mostly worked -- *except* it meant a bunch of weapon enchantments nobody had looked at in a while now were much more high-profile. So all sorts of old bugs came to the fore. (As far as I know, none of the things people are finding are things that the scaling broke -- the scaling tech itself is pretty simple -- other than obviously scaling-related stuff like "X scales but Y does not" or "tooltip scaling, but power is not".)
Unfortunately, we don't currently have time allotted to "fix all the bugs with weapon and armor enchants". But I don't want to just give up. So here is my plan:
Fix any scaling-specific issues (like stuff that is supposed to be scaling but just isn't, eg, Bilethorn second hit)
Balance any numbers that are out of control because of scaling. Currently on my list, based on everyone's feedback, is:
Lower Feytouched dramatically (I'm thinking around 60-70%).
Lower Lightning significantly (currently I'm thinking around 30-40%).
Any other low-hanging fruit we can grab in the time we have.
Put the rest of the issues in the backlog.
Agitate for some more resources to address those issues.
If people really hate the above, the other alternative would be just to revert all the changes entirely (so everything just keeps working the way it does now on live) and put a big "fix all bugs with weapon and armor enchants, and then scale them" into the backlog. My inclination is to keep going as above, because I think the game will be better with the enchants scaling (again, assuming really critical bugs are fixed) than not. But I am willing to do the "just revert everything" plan (or maybe "just revert everything but Flaming", although that's a bit weird) if there's a real consensus that's better.
In the meantime, please do keep the bugs and balance feedback coming -- they are helpful no matter what -- and I hope that we can get something good in for weapon enchants this next module, and then keep improving after that.
@rgutscheradev yes, in all likelyhood, these are old bugs with weapon enchants, but before this change, nobody had any specific reason to check for these bugs since, "a weapon multiproccing off imprisonment 60 times to deal 300 damage each hit isn't that spectacular."
From what I've been testing so far, Feytouched seems to be only good for GWF and does just a little bit more dps than Vorpal. No need to tone it down when it has the downside of giving only 1 buff / mob. Especially 60-70% ! Wtf ? It would simply kill this enchant ! Except if your goal is to make it an enchantment for tanky builds and not a buff to GWF. Making it like this could lead to a diversity in pvp, which is nice!
And then, about Lightning : it does incredible dps on CW in aoe but is one of the most terrible on single target. So I think it's a fair trade like it is now ! And once again, 30-40% is a really harsh number ! The only thing that should be fixed is that it procs Abyss of chaos and lead to an other source of high dps.
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've been looking into some of these things. I had hoped to have some stuff for today's patch, but unfortunately a bunch of other things intervened, and then the "low hanging fruit" fix I started in on turned out to be way more complicated than I thought it would be.
But I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, and that I definitely appreciate all the feedback.
I will definitely let you know of any changes that do get made when they hit playtest, so that nobody's testing gets scrambled.
Let me give you a little background on where we're at with these enchants so you know what to expect. This whole set of fixes started out a while back with us realizing we wanted to improve weapon and armor enchants, but realizing we didn't have the resources to tackle them all at once. So we decided to fix them 2 at a time (1 armor, 1 weapon). The idea was to keep the fixes pretty simple, but to give them buffs if they needed them. I was up for Flaming and Barkskin. Since Flaming is pretty much pure damage, I felt I had to fix the damage on it, which led to all those thoughts about scaling. So (as described in my original post) I decided to "turn on" the scaling.
Since this was one "simple" fix, I figured I'd do it to all the weapon enchants at once (with hindsight, that may have been too ambitious!). That mostly worked -- *except* it meant a bunch of weapon enchantments nobody had looked at in a while now were much more high-profile. So all sorts of old bugs came to the fore. (As far as I know, none of the things people are finding are things that the scaling broke -- the scaling tech itself is pretty simple -- other than obviously scaling-related stuff like "X scales but Y does not" or "tooltip scaling, but power is not".)
Unfortunately, we don't currently have time allotted to "fix all the bugs with weapon and armor enchants". But I don't want to just give up. So here is my plan:
Fix any scaling-specific issues (like stuff that is supposed to be scaling but just isn't, eg, Bilethorn second hit)
Balance any numbers that are out of control because of scaling. Currently on my list, based on everyone's feedback, is:
Lower Feytouched dramatically (I'm thinking around 60-70%).
Lower Lightning significantly (currently I'm thinking around 30-40%).
Any other low-hanging fruit we can grab in the time we have.
Put the rest of the issues in the backlog.
Agitate for some more resources to address those issues.
If people really hate the above, the other alternative would be just to revert all the changes entirely (so everything just keeps working the way it does now on live) and put a big "fix all bugs with weapon and armor enchants, and then scale them" into the backlog. My inclination is to keep going as above, because I think the game will be better with the enchants scaling (again, assuming really critical bugs are fixed) than not. But I am willing to do the "just revert everything" plan (or maybe "just revert everything but Flaming", although that's a bit weird) if there's a real consensus that's better.
In the meantime, please do keep the bugs and balance feedback coming -- they are helpful no matter what -- and I hope that we can get something good in for weapon enchants this next module, and then keep improving after that.
i agree with nerf to Feytouched but i do hope u mean to nerf only damage based on weapon damage by 70 % and lightning only needs nerf on inital hit 70% is to much but chained damage does not need any drastic nerf
From what I've been testing so far, Feytouched seems to be only good for GWF and does just a little bit more dps than Vorpal.
No need to tone it down when it has the downside of giving only 1 buff / mob. Especially 60-70% ! Wtf ? It would simply kill this enchant !
Except if your goal is to make it an enchantment for tanky builds and not a buff to GWF.
Making it like this could lead to a diversity in pvp, which is nice!
And then, about Lightning : it does incredible dps on CW in aoe but is one of the most terrible on single target. So I think it's a fair trade like it is now ! And once again, 30-40% is a really harsh number !
The only thing that should be fixed is that it procs Abyss of chaos and lead to an other source of high dps.
fey is to strong atm its weapon damage proc alone can boost dps by 12- 15% so if u combined it with other 18% to 54% potential buff we get quite to strong enchant
On Lightning, if you're going to scale down it's multi-target damage it would be very useful for tanks if you kept the single target damage high.
My 3.6k OP uses a trans lightning for the threat generation but in boss fights I lose the threat advantage due to the single target damage being only 65% weapon damage. Scaling that up would help a huge amount with maintaining threat and can't be abused by aoe casting.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I agree as well. I think your course of action is reasonable, and as long as we can make sure no major bugs occur that are making an enchantment a clear choice because it's broken, we can settle out there.
Before you nerf anything this week, let us keep testing a bit more, trying to better gauge effectiveness.
For example, Lightning could be a very powerful choice for a CW that casts a lot of AOE spells that hit multiple times. This favors what I call "Lawn Mower" builds that are designed to boost damage against trash mobs, but may be at a disadvantage in single target (namely boss) fights. So there's a big trade-off there. Some, like myself, would argue that clearing trash is easy, and the challenge comes on bosses...essentially all Lightning really does is run up on the scoreboard on trash.
It's a clear winner for AOE damage. So it has a distinct home and something worth considering, which was the goal. I'm sure simply based on it's ability to run up the Paingiver score, you'll see tons of people using Lightning in Module 11.
Feytouch is another one that I think needs more bug fixing than anything. I would be worried that a nerf on it's damage might put it back to being subpar. I think if you can make sure that the 18% bonus only stacks once, and people don't get double or triple effectiveness out of the buff, you'll be in a good enough state.
From a theorycrafting perspective, I'm trying to find out where Flame, Frost and Bilethorn sit. The damage boost is definitely second class, and the alternate effects...I just don't know if they're consistently powerful enough to warrant consideration.
Terror and Plaguefire also sit in an interesting place. When you consider the damage, the damage buff and the debuff present in Dread, Terror and Plaguefire seem lackluster...the home for these enchantments is essentially to be "the poor man's" Dread.
So that being said, I think our goal as a team should be to get the +scaling damage numbers to the point where people feel good about the damage output of these enchantments, with the understanding that some may still be subpar simply because the abilities they also proc need another pass that's just not going to happen in time for Module 11.
For example, if we can get enchantments like Flaming or Bilethorn to be about 80% effective as far as DPS of Vorpal/Dread (with new high water marks for Lightning and Feytouch, since I see those two as primarily being DPS heavy echantments), with the understanding that the ultimately goal is to close that 20% DPS gap with some sort of utility portion to bring everything in line.
Coming out of this then, the goal would be that players would roughly consider Vorpal=Dread=Lightning=Feytouch in terms of these enchantments being "tier 1" for a variety of builds. The "tier 2" enchantments would see significant boosts ("80% there" as my reference point), mainly built around the improved weapon damage scaling.
You could then try a second round of enchantment reviews that would also include armor, since these (and the remaining weapon enchants) are mostly balanced not around DPS, but how useful the utility effects are.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
1
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited January 2017
I already use a bunch of subpar enchants for flavor, and because they're items I've been working on building up over a very long period of time through shifting game metas. I acquire things but I never sell them off, just find an alt they'll work for reasonably ok. I'll be happy with a damage boost for now and a hope to fix and improve secondary effects in time.
My hotlist is Bilethorn's slow and Terror and Plaguefire's debuffs.
Ran some logs to determine how the different and new wepons enchants affect my damage. Conditions were: near BiS CW SS Thauma(Abyss of Chaos route), Testing Orb 1000, single target dummy, 3x10min logs/enchant, CD based rotation with priorities: Ray of Enfeeblement>Ice Knife>Disintigrate, same consumables for each enchant, no artifact/mount active used. From the 3 logs of each enchant I take the average dps. Vorpal is set as a reference point(100%).
Vorpal average dps: 127364 DPS(is set as 100%) Screen of one of the 10 min Vorpal logs: http://prnt.sc/dyi5cl
Lightning Enchantment average dps: 114957 DPS (90.3% of Vorpals dps) Screen: http://prnt.sc/dyi5kh
Feytouched average dps: 131441 DPS (103.2% of Vorpals) Screen: http://prnt.sc/dyi6oi
Holy Avenger enchantment average dps: 114548 (90% of Vorpals) Screen: http://prnt.sc/dyi5o3
Dread average dps: 126765 DPS (99,5% of Vorpals, note 121.3% average effectiveness) Screen: http://prnt.sc/dyi5ql
Comments
I used Ray of Frost until the target is frozen, then channeled a few more hits and cast chill strike. If you are having a problem with frozen preventing weapon enchantment procs, then it is likely a problem with some other feat interfering.
My method for testing was to have 2 weapons, 1 without the enchant and 1 with it. I would freeze the target with the weapon without the enchant, switch to the other weapon, then attack with the enchant. Interestingly enough I learned in the process that when you attack with Icy Terrain for example, it snapshots whatever weapon+equipment is currently on that weapon, so for example if you cast Icy Terrain with a weapon that has a dread slotted and switch to a weapon with a vorpal, it won't change the damage bonus on the crits from the 75 crit sev to 50.
But agreed, the only skill that bugs out is ray of frost, if you attack with any other skill, it does still apply the weapon enchantments.
Buffed by: Hiden daggers, Destroyer, Disciple of strenght, endless assault, vicious advantage, alied oportunity, group assault, instigator vengeance, great weapon focus, mighty blade, battle fury,,executioners style, relentless battle fury, focused destroyer, destroyer purpose,
Intimitation doesn’t proc bilethorn or any weapon enchantment.
I made some DPS test on BiS level for GWF and HR for several enchants, this is only relative to single target, multi target is very tricky to do on dummies.
And yep i repeated H.Avenger test....so far all classes i tried flaming falls behind as a pure dps enchantment, as life drinker or H.avenger have the "excuse" to underperform flaming doesn't.
Only one player can get the buff from Fey about one monster. Therefore, all players will not be able to replace Vorpal on Fey.
Terror Spreadsheet^
Nothing spectacular to note about terror that has not been said about the previous enchantments. Can refer to Michela's debuff spreadsheet for the debuff.
Feytouched Spreadsheet^
The buff value for feytouched is 18%, it does 18% weapon damage and it has the 2 debuffs on enemies. Hits that proc feytouched do not benefit from the buff, only hits after the buff is up do. Also, feytouched procs off most hits of FtF and it procs off of shard, unlike other weapon enchants tested so far, but whatever XD Now, feytouched has a lot of bugs.
Bug: Feytouched and CW Daily Powers.
The Feytouched hit for 18% weapon damage does not proc off of CW dailies.
Bug: Feytouched+Icy Rays.
If there is only a single target nearby and you use Icy Rays against it, it will proc Feytouched 3 times. If there are multiple targets and you target only 1 of them, it will proc Feytouched twice against the main enemy and once against all enemies nearby. Storm Spell also behaves this way. Example:
There are 4 dummies in this test, the main dummy gets hit twice by feytouched, the other 3 all get hit once.
Bug: Feytouched and Sudden Storm on Mastery.
The DoT applied by Sudden Storm on mastery appears to be an entity and is counted as an enemy, as it gets debuffed by the feytouched enchantment and does base damage*0.85*0.85 damage when you have feytouched slotted.
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've been looking into some of these things. I had hoped to have some stuff for today's patch, but unfortunately a bunch of other things intervened, and then the "low hanging fruit" fix I started in on turned out to be way more complicated than I thought it would be.
But I wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, and that I definitely appreciate all the feedback.
I will definitely let you know of any changes that do get made when they hit playtest, so that nobody's testing gets scrambled.
Let me give you a little background on where we're at with these enchants so you know what to expect. This whole set of fixes started out a while back with us realizing we wanted to improve weapon and armor enchants, but realizing we didn't have the resources to tackle them all at once. So we decided to fix them 2 at a time (1 armor, 1 weapon). The idea was to keep the fixes pretty simple, but to give them buffs if they needed them. I was up for Flaming and Barkskin. Since Flaming is pretty much pure damage, I felt I had to fix the damage on it, which led to all those thoughts about scaling. So (as described in my original post) I decided to "turn on" the scaling.
Since this was one "simple" fix, I figured I'd do it to all the weapon enchants at once (with hindsight, that may have been too ambitious!). That mostly worked -- *except* it meant a bunch of weapon enchantments nobody had looked at in a while now were much more high-profile. So all sorts of old bugs came to the fore. (As far as I know, none of the things people are finding are things that the scaling broke -- the scaling tech itself is pretty simple -- other than obviously scaling-related stuff like "X scales but Y does not" or "tooltip scaling, but power is not".)
Unfortunately, we don't currently have time allotted to "fix all the bugs with weapon and armor enchants". But I don't want to just give up. So here is my plan:
- Fix any scaling-specific issues (like stuff that is supposed to be scaling but just isn't, eg, Bilethorn second hit)
- Balance any numbers that are out of control because of scaling. Currently on my list, based on everyone's feedback, is:
- Lower Feytouched dramatically (I'm thinking around 60-70%).
- Lower Lightning significantly (currently I'm thinking around 30-40%).
- Fix anything really gamebreaking (Control Wizard Imprisonment proc'ing 60 times, for example)
- Any other low-hanging fruit we can grab in the time we have.
- Put the rest of the issues in the backlog.
- Agitate for some more resources to address those issues.
If people really hate the above, the other alternative would be just to revert all the changes entirely (so everything just keeps working the way it does now on live) and put a big "fix all bugs with weapon and armor enchants, and then scale them" into the backlog. My inclination is to keep going as above, because I think the game will be better with the enchants scaling (again, assuming really critical bugs are fixed) than not. But I am willing to do the "just revert everything" plan (or maybe "just revert everything but Flaming", although that's a bit weird) if there's a real consensus that's better.In the meantime, please do keep the bugs and balance feedback coming -- they are helpful no matter what -- and I hope that we can get something good in for weapon enchants this next module, and then keep improving after that.
sounds like a solid plan with the limited resources you have. Are you all taking a look at how some enchantments (feytouched) have constant uptime, but the others have longer cooldowns for some reason?
Any chance we could get all enchants on same cooldown as feytouched? it would really help their usability. (it is really hard to keep up with which 4 seconds they are really active
I´d say go on with the fixes. In case somthing got utterly broken you need to readjust in time, and not in month
Speaking for myself it may be some kind of interesting by "mixing the cards" again, no clue what enchant will be the next to go for. I do not care about my own feytouched, vorpal, bronzewood, dread enchant and can also live with the fact that those will get outnumbered by other enchants.
Even the crazy ups and downs for some enchants in the AH are some kind of entertaining.
These % nerfs are really high imo. We'll need to test how it is because Vorpal could be once again the one dominating
From what I've been testing so far, Feytouched seems to be only good for GWF and does just a little bit more dps than Vorpal.
No need to tone it down when it has the downside of giving only 1 buff / mob. Especially 60-70% ! Wtf ? It would simply kill this enchant !
Except if your goal is to make it an enchantment for tanky builds and not a buff to GWF.
Making it like this could lead to a diversity in pvp, which is nice!
And then, about Lightning : it does incredible dps on CW in aoe but is one of the most terrible on single target. So I think it's a fair trade like it is now ! And once again, 30-40% is a really harsh number !
The only thing that should be fixed is that it procs Abyss of chaos and lead to an other source of high dps.
and lightning only needs nerf on inital hit 70% is to much but chained damage does not need any drastic nerf
My 3.6k OP uses a trans lightning for the threat generation but in boss fights I lose the threat advantage due to the single target damage being only 65% weapon damage. Scaling that up would help a huge amount with maintaining threat and can't be abused by aoe casting.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Before you nerf anything this week, let us keep testing a bit more, trying to better gauge effectiveness.
For example, Lightning could be a very powerful choice for a CW that casts a lot of AOE spells that hit multiple times. This favors what I call "Lawn Mower" builds that are designed to boost damage against trash mobs, but may be at a disadvantage in single target (namely boss) fights. So there's a big trade-off there. Some, like myself, would argue that clearing trash is easy, and the challenge comes on bosses...essentially all Lightning really does is run up on the scoreboard on trash.
It's a clear winner for AOE damage. So it has a distinct home and something worth considering, which was the goal. I'm sure simply based on it's ability to run up the Paingiver score, you'll see tons of people using Lightning in Module 11.
Feytouch is another one that I think needs more bug fixing than anything. I would be worried that a nerf on it's damage might put it back to being subpar. I think if you can make sure that the 18% bonus only stacks once, and people don't get double or triple effectiveness out of the buff, you'll be in a good enough state.
From a theorycrafting perspective, I'm trying to find out where Flame, Frost and Bilethorn sit. The damage boost is definitely second class, and the alternate effects...I just don't know if they're consistently powerful enough to warrant consideration.
Terror and Plaguefire also sit in an interesting place. When you consider the damage, the damage buff and the debuff present in Dread, Terror and Plaguefire seem lackluster...the home for these enchantments is essentially to be "the poor man's" Dread.
So that being said, I think our goal as a team should be to get the +scaling damage numbers to the point where people feel good about the damage output of these enchantments, with the understanding that some may still be subpar simply because the abilities they also proc need another pass that's just not going to happen in time for Module 11.
For example, if we can get enchantments like Flaming or Bilethorn to be about 80% effective as far as DPS of Vorpal/Dread (with new high water marks for Lightning and Feytouch, since I see those two as primarily being DPS heavy echantments), with the understanding that the ultimately goal is to close that 20% DPS gap with some sort of utility portion to bring everything in line.
Coming out of this then, the goal would be that players would roughly consider Vorpal=Dread=Lightning=Feytouch in terms of these enchantments being "tier 1" for a variety of builds. The "tier 2" enchantments would see significant boosts ("80% there" as my reference point), mainly built around the improved weapon damage scaling.
You could then try a second round of enchantment reviews that would also include armor, since these (and the remaining weapon enchants) are mostly balanced not around DPS, but how useful the utility effects are.
My hotlist is Bilethorn's slow and Terror and Plaguefire's debuffs.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Conditions were: near BiS CW SS Thauma(Abyss of Chaos route), Testing Orb 1000, single target dummy, 3x10min logs/enchant, CD based rotation with priorities: Ray of Enfeeblement>Ice Knife>Disintigrate, same consumables for each enchant, no artifact/mount active used.
From the 3 logs of each enchant I take the average dps. Vorpal is set as a reference point(100%).
Vorpal average dps: 127364 DPS(is set as 100%)
Screen of one of the 10 min Vorpal logs:
http://prnt.sc/dyi5cl
Lightning Enchantment average dps: 114957 DPS (90.3% of Vorpals dps)
Screen:
http://prnt.sc/dyi5kh
Feytouched average dps: 131441 DPS (103.2% of Vorpals)
Screen:
http://prnt.sc/dyi6oi
Holy Avenger enchantment average dps: 114548 (90% of Vorpals)
Screen:
http://prnt.sc/dyi5o3
Dread average dps: 126765 DPS (99,5% of Vorpals, note 121.3% average effectiveness)
Screen:
http://prnt.sc/dyi5ql
No enchant average dps: 112882 DPS (88.6% of Vorpals)
Screen:
http://prnt.sc/dyi5sn
Thats all I ran so far, will do other enchantments later on.