treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Plague seems be working fine to me, it has that pseudo damage but no big deal.... and taking in consideration the debuff it is not bad dps enchant as well, take a look on the tooltips of terror for example, worse in 90% of the situations....remember, depending on your current buffs you'll be giving your party lets say 10% damage, that's pretty good, it's made for people that know their damage will be inferior to the team and want to buff it up.....
What is not fine is Pilar of Power found by acident that is not debuffing anymore , it gives me 15% aditional damage when i stand in it, no idea what it's doing to alies.
Seriouslly if nothing is done about fey and lightning it will a bad mod for SW/HR/TR. HR/SW/CW cannot sustain fey over a few seconds, CW's will just go with lightning, GWF with FEY, HR.....well keep your WE, TR and SW probably lightning depending on rotation but will be squashed.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Seriouslly if nothing is done about fey and lightning it will a bad mod for SW/HR/TR. HR/SW/CW cannot sustain fey over a few seconds, CW's will just go with lightning, GWF with FEY, HR.....well keep your WE, TR and SW probably lightning depending on rotation but will be squashed.
Dunno about Fey on a TR but I
SURE
wish that path of the blade at least proc'd WEs. Smoke bomb might need tweaks if WEs were allowed to work for it again.
just this for now: the cost of swapping enchants has increased to 3,5 gold this feels like a move in the wrong direction for alt friendly play...
@ilmenira This appears to be the normal (live) cost for popping an enchant out of legendary equipment. Unless you mean that was what it cost to remove from epic on preview.
@beckylunatic true! my mistake... i fell into ---> too much wishful thinking towards cheaper enchant removal and too much fearful thinking of loosing this or that! *..*
Post edited by ilmenira on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2017
So, today I decided to take a look at holy Avenger:
Spreadsheet ^
Some interesting notes:
1) The T.holy buff is snapshotted on whatever skill it is applied to, even though other buffs will dynamically be added/removed. For example:
This highlights before and after the Arcane stacks fall off of imprisonment. Ignore the 7 hits before the 60 from imprisonment, those were the hits to apply the T.Holy buff before I used imprisonment. I waited till there were only 5 seconds of buff left before casting Imprisonment, to ensure it would fall off during the process. There are 3 Arcane Stacks before and 0 after. I have 0 power, 18 int, no buffs other than the t.holy buff, which has a value of 25%. Using the 1000 damage weapons.
1000*0.3*1.08*1.25 = 405 Without Arcane stacks
442.6/405 = 1.09283950617
Arcane stacks are multiplicative with each other which is why this value is slightly higher than 9%. If you look throughout the entire log there however, even after the t.holy buff falls off, the radiant damage dealt by the ability that was initially buffed still gets the 25% buff.
2) Like other weapon enchantments tested so far, T.holy benefits from arcane stacks if procced of an Arcane Skill and Cold if procced off a cold skill. It counts as AoE/Single Target depending on the skill that procs it. Same proc rules as the previous 2 enchants posted. Unless specifically stated otherwise in future tests, this point 2 is implied by default, if I find otherwise, I will say so.
3) Thought I would include an example of this 1.6 multiplier. Here is Chill Strike Proccing T.Holy twice:
The first hit was for 324, which is equal to:
1000*0.3*1.08=324.
This is the expected value.
The second hit is for 518.4 (you can't see the .4 in this picture but it is there), which is equal to:
324*1.6=518.4
4) The T.Holy damage buff only applies to the damage dealt by the weapon enchantment itself, not to your normal damage.
5) The T.Holy damage buff to Radiant Damage has no CD, however it cannot be reapplied while it is up. The moment it falls off however, it can be reapplied.
6) The T.Holy hit for 30% weapon damage has an ICD of ~0.3 seconds.
Bug: Buff Higher than Intended.
The 7.5% buff for 15 seconds every 45 seconds is actually a 25% damage buff, which is much higher than the value listed in the tooltip.
Bug: Imprisonment and Chilling Presence.
Although it is pretty much redundant to point this out, procs off of Imprisonment do not benefit from Chilling Presence.
Personal note: Since it seems nobody else is posting a comparison of weapon enchantments, once I have done with my analysis I may do so.
To tell you the truth I think everyone is waiting for your "technical-math" look on the subject since not everyone has such knowledge. Or no one else cares what the devs do (HAMISTER things) with the game and moving on! Lol
2) Like other weapon enchantments tested so far, T.holy benefits from arcane stacks.
All my life has been a lie xD
I will do some comparissons in dps multi and single target for all classes all reworked enchants tomorrow, but i will only be analizing one rotation for both single and multi target, but for now mind this jewel:
Smh....so wich dps class are you guys going to be on mod 11 renegade or thaumalurge xD, but no joking now dreadtheft had even "heavier" discrepancy but SW lacks habilities that trigger lightning...so for a SW that plays a buffer role in a party (currently the damnation + acc synergy) it will have very good and not exescive results and lightning provides such high damage if cooldowns are justified so depending on the dungeon at hand 1 rotation may be more than enough.
Edit: T.Terror in pvp reduces power by 20% and defence by 40%. T.plague reduces defence by 15% each stack and does nothing to power.
Post edited by treesclimber on
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
2) Like other weapon enchantments tested so far, T.holy benefits from arcane stacks.
All my life has been a lie xD
I will do some comparissons in dps multi and single target for all classes all reworked enchants tomorrow, but i will only be analizing one rotation for both single and multi target, but for now mind this jewel:
Smh....so wich dps class are you guys going to be on mod 11 renegade or thaumalurge xD, but no joking now dreadtheft had even "heavier" discrepancy but SW lacks habilities that trigger lightning...so for a SW that plays a buffer role in a party (currently the damnation + acc synergy) it will have very good and not exescive results and lightning provides such high damage if cooldowns are justified so depending on the dungeon at hand 1 rotation may be more than enough.
Three options.
Nerfing Lightning to oblivion making it meh for other classes other than cws and sws.
Tweak weapon damage.
Tweak encounters or the enchants, which sounds like bugs waiting to happen.
I'm really not sure yet what to make of all this. I mostly run a DPS GF and a support DC and trying to figure out what I'm going to want. I "think" the GF will stick to being a high crit with vorpal but totally no idea on my DC....Crazy.
Please include tranquil enchantments buffs into this enchantment update.
Thanks
I've been trying several enchants in detail on preview, they all have similarities in some powers but when it comes to fey.....it's a mess it's the rule breaker and happy about it, the devs have plenty to do with these enchantments still, no offence but i think it's better to put tranquil and tenebrous for another mod since not even bronzehood and brilliant energy are getting fixed and they are from the same category.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Please include tranquil enchantments buffs into this enchantment update.
Thanks
I've been trying several enchants in detail on preview, they all have similarities in some powers but when it comes to fey.....it's a mess it's the rule breaker and happy about it, the devs have plenty to do with these enchantments still, no offence but i think it's better to put tranquil and tenebrous for another mod since not even bronzehood and brilliant energy are getting fixed and they are from the same category.
What's so damn hard about increasing the amount of health tranquil heals you?
1
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I don't think there's a truly important reason to touch Brilliant Energy, except as a larger project to restore value to the sadly outdated Hero pack. It's not meant to be endgame viable. It's just a thing you can throw into weapon enchant slots at no added cost if you happen to own it.
@thefabricant, thank you for your work. There are few people, who take the time to do the testing and share the results with us.
My work does not allow anything similar and, to be honest, I might be to lazy/stupid, too. Nevertheless. I have t. dread, t. lightning, t. vorpal, t. fey, pure PF and perf. barkshield on live. If you need any of them for your tests, just tell me and I will copy them to preview.
You can buy all of them for 1 copper on preview @asterotg
Ok, I did not know that. When I had more time I did some testing with fiends on preview and I just remember the 'how should I test it, if I dont have it' situations.
One of the few things I can honestly say, 'wow, an improvement'.
Please include tranquil enchantments buffs into this enchantment update.
Thanks
I've been trying several enchants in detail on preview, they all have similarities in some powers but when it comes to fey.....it's a mess it's the rule breaker and happy about it, the devs have plenty to do with these enchantments still, no offence but i think it's better to put tranquil and tenebrous for another mod since not even bronzehood and brilliant energy are getting fixed and they are from the same category.
What's so damn hard about increasing the amount of health tranquil heals you?
You cant just say "hey this enchant is bad lets buff it" you have to make at least a little revision by the builds or you end up with mod 6.
Please include tranquil enchantments buffs into this enchantment update.
Thanks
I've been trying several enchants in detail on preview, they all have similarities in some powers but when it comes to fey.....it's a mess it's the rule breaker and happy about it, the devs have plenty to do with these enchantments still, no offence but i think it's better to put tranquil and tenebrous for another mod since not even bronzehood and brilliant energy are getting fixed and they are from the same category.
Well tenebrous should at least be easy to fix they broke it and not once since have the bothered even to answer the bug reports or just said it works as it clearly do not.
So including tenebrous woul be a good idea imho especially since hp and lifesteal/heal have gone through the roof..
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So, is the new Holy avenger looking like a good option for OP tanks, or should they choose something else?
I am going to hold off on recommending anything until the changes are all through and the enchants have been adjusted, however, as it currently stands, if your goal is to help the team mitigate damage then T.Fey is better and if your goal is to debuff enemies then frost/PF is better.
Today I tested terror but found nothing exciting, I will hold off on posting those results until I have finished feytouched, which I am checking next.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Feedback: Terror Enchant mitigation While my understanding is that Terror's debuff being mostly nullified on bosses (where it counts) is not actually due to anyone changing anything, players now have better/refreshed information with regard to it being the poorest PvE debuff enchant. Increasing its damage doesn't suffice to make it more appealing because the niche that it should appeal to has multiple better choices.
If it actually debuffed 4% as the tooltip says, it could be a reasonable choice for players looking for a small but consistent debuff that's easy to keep up. The old recommendation for Terror was that it was best used by the party support member with the slowest attacks, as you didn't need to worry about multiple stacks. That's where I'd see it fitting in again if it were made more competitive.
Incidentally, the root effect does work in PvE, though it's only noticeable against foes that were already weak and unthreatening.
tested most of enchants y day this are changes i would like to see Trans terror ,trans bile,trans flame all 3 of them needs a damage buff or they need to get their debuffs improved Trans holy icd on proc is killing it and makes it useless i cant see anything so overpowerd on its proc to deserve icd Trans Plauge needs small damage buff trans fey needs to get nerf i think you should at least remove damage based on weapon damage from it
if enchants changes come as they are now nothing will change we will still use 2 or 3 of them:trans fey , lightning(lightning is good for few builds) for damage and trans plauge for debuff Changes will be pointless because in the end we will only use 3 enchants like we do now only difference will be is that everyone will just replace vorpal and dread for fey
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Please include tranquil enchantments buffs into this enchantment update.
Thanks
I've been trying several enchants in detail on preview, they all have similarities in some powers but when it comes to fey.....it's a mess it's the rule breaker and happy about it, the devs have plenty to do with these enchantments still, no offence but i think it's better to put tranquil and tenebrous for another mod since not even bronzehood and brilliant energy are getting fixed and they are from the same category.
What's so damn hard about increasing the amount of health tranquil heals you?
You cant just say "hey this enchant is bad lets buff it" you have to make at least a little revision by the builds or you end up with mod 6.
Tranquil has a CD if you haven't tried it lately. It is essentially useless.
Also, I think flaming's dot is not stacking. Even if it did reach the 3 stacks the damage would be nowhere no useful. Lighting and other enchants can hit as frequently as a class can get off hits. The dot needs a serious buff to be viable with others.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2017
BUG: Weapon Enchantment powers will no proc from Ray of Frost on targets Frozen via CW Chills. Tested versus: Lightning, Flaming, Dread, Feytouched.
Comments
here is act log where u can see it i done testing in new advanture zone https://www.dropbox.com/s/52ztw90y4en78dm/all damage.png?dl=0
What is not fine is Pilar of Power found by acident that is not debuffing anymore
Seriouslly if nothing is done about fey and lightning it will a bad mod for SW/HR/TR. HR/SW/CW cannot sustain fey over a few seconds, CW's will just go with lightning, GWF with FEY, HR.....well keep your WE, TR and SW probably lightning depending on rotation but will be squashed.
SURE
wish that path of the blade at least proc'd WEs. Smoke bomb might need tweaks if WEs were allowed to work for it again.true! my mistake...
i fell into ---> too much wishful thinking towards cheaper enchant removal
and too much fearful thinking of loosing this or that!
*..*
Spreadsheet ^
Some interesting notes:
1) The T.holy buff is snapshotted on whatever skill it is applied to, even though other buffs will dynamically be added/removed. For example:
This highlights before and after the Arcane stacks fall off of imprisonment. Ignore the 7 hits before the 60 from imprisonment, those were the hits to apply the T.Holy buff before I used imprisonment. I waited till there were only 5 seconds of buff left before casting Imprisonment, to ensure it would fall off during the process. There are 3 Arcane Stacks before and 0 after. I have 0 power, 18 int, no buffs other than the t.holy buff, which has a value of 25%. Using the 1000 damage weapons.
1000*0.3*1.08*1.25 = 405 Without Arcane stacks
442.6/405 = 1.09283950617
Arcane stacks are multiplicative with each other which is why this value is slightly higher than 9%. If you look throughout the entire log there however, even after the t.holy buff falls off, the radiant damage dealt by the ability that was initially buffed still gets the 25% buff.
2) Like other weapon enchantments tested so far, T.holy benefits from arcane stacks if procced of an Arcane Skill and Cold if procced off a cold skill. It counts as AoE/Single Target depending on the skill that procs it. Same proc rules as the previous 2 enchants posted. Unless specifically stated otherwise in future tests, this point 2 is implied by default, if I find otherwise, I will say so.
3) Thought I would include an example of this 1.6 multiplier. Here is Chill Strike Proccing T.Holy twice:
The first hit was for 324, which is equal to:
1000*0.3*1.08=324.
This is the expected value.
The second hit is for 518.4 (you can't see the .4 in this picture but it is there), which is equal to:
324*1.6=518.4
4) The T.Holy damage buff only applies to the damage dealt by the weapon enchantment itself, not to your normal damage.
5) The T.Holy damage buff to Radiant Damage has no CD, however it cannot be reapplied while it is up. The moment it falls off however, it can be reapplied.
6) The T.Holy hit for 30% weapon damage has an ICD of ~0.3 seconds.
Bug: Buff Higher than Intended.
The 7.5% buff for 15 seconds every 45 seconds is actually a 25% damage buff, which is much higher than the value listed in the tooltip.
Bug: Imprisonment and Chilling Presence.
Although it is pretty much redundant to point this out, procs off of Imprisonment do not benefit from Chilling Presence.
Personal note: Since it seems nobody else is posting a comparison of weapon enchantments, once I have done with my analysis I may do so.
All my life has been a lie xD
I will do some comparissons in dps multi and single target for all classes all reworked enchants tomorrow, but i will only be analizing one rotation for both single and multi target, but for now mind this jewel:
CW renegade MoF 50% crit chance, 4 target T.lighning test 4 minutes:
10 843 378;
CW renegade MoF 50% crit chance, 4 target T.Vorpal test 4 minutes:
6 380 228;
Smh....so wich dps class are you guys going to be on mod 11 renegade or thaumalurge xD, but no joking now dreadtheft had even "heavier" discrepancy but SW lacks habilities that trigger lightning...so for a SW that plays a buffer role in a party (currently the damnation + acc synergy) it will have very good and not exescive results and lightning provides such high damage if cooldowns are justified so depending on the dungeon at hand 1 rotation may be more than enough.
Edit: T.Terror in pvp reduces power by 20% and defence by 40%.
T.plague reduces defence by 15% each stack and does nothing to power.
Three options.
Nerfing Lightning to oblivion making it meh for other classes other than cws and sws.
Tweak weapon damage.
Tweak encounters or the enchants, which sounds like bugs waiting to happen.
Thanks
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Also proly be nice to improve terror. Ever since the change to it the debuff has become a pile of garbage.
My work does not allow anything similar and, to be honest, I might be to lazy/stupid, too. Nevertheless. I have t. dread, t. lightning, t. vorpal, t. fey, pure PF and perf. barkshield on live. If you need any of them for your tests, just tell me and I will copy them to preview.
One of the few things I can honestly say, 'wow, an improvement'.
So, is the new Holy avenger looking like a good option for OP tanks, or should they choose something else?
So including tenebrous woul be a good idea imho especially since hp and lifesteal/heal have gone through the roof..
Today I tested terror but found nothing exciting, I will hold off on posting those results until I have finished feytouched, which I am checking next.
While my understanding is that Terror's debuff being mostly nullified on bosses (where it counts) is not actually due to anyone changing anything, players now have better/refreshed information with regard to it being the poorest PvE debuff enchant. Increasing its damage doesn't suffice to make it more appealing because the niche that it should appeal to has multiple better choices.
If it actually debuffed 4% as the tooltip says, it could be a reasonable choice for players looking for a small but consistent debuff that's easy to keep up. The old recommendation for Terror was that it was best used by the party support member with the slowest attacks, as you didn't need to worry about multiple stacks. That's where I'd see it fitting in again if it were made more competitive.
Incidentally, the root effect does work in PvE, though it's only noticeable against foes that were already weak and unthreatening.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Trans terror ,trans bile,trans flame all 3 of them needs a damage buff or they need to get their debuffs improved
Trans holy icd on proc is killing it and makes it useless i cant see anything so overpowerd on its proc to deserve icd
Trans Plauge needs small damage buff
trans fey needs to get nerf i think you should at least remove damage based on weapon damage from it
if enchants changes come as they are now nothing will change we will still use 2 or 3 of them:trans fey , lightning(lightning is good for few builds) for damage and trans plauge for debuff Changes will be pointless because in the end we will only use 3 enchants like we do now only difference will be is that everyone will just replace vorpal and dread for fey
Also, I think flaming's dot is not stacking. Even if it did reach the 3 stacks the damage would be nowhere no useful. Lighting and other enchants can hit as frequently as a class can get off hits. The dot needs a serious buff to be viable with others.