I hope you people realize that the devs in the thread are basically just saying "Here, we thought weapon enchantment strike procs should scale now. What do you think?" Approximately ZERO balancing has been done. Which is why I keep insisting that we focus mostly on weapon enchantment strike procs and their behaviour (ie, how they scale with buffs, debuffs, etc). Because the rest can be figured out once we know the basics.
Many powers basically have a "weapon strike" component in them, which procs weapon enchantments. It's conceivable that this shows up simply as a line of code or a value (ie, a particular encounter power generates an "x" number of weapon strikes). We know that the mechanics of this is trickier on some powers than others (especially powers that also affect allies, like Divine Glow - the reason it can't proc weapon enchantments probably has something to do with how it might also affect allies if it did) but we also know that the devs can choose to add/remove more weapon strikes from powers if they wanted to. There's obviously a function for it since there's a rhyme and reason to how it works (only specific damage over time powers have it, for example). Which is why I find it ridiculous that people seem to be going overboard with rotation testing, seeing as if the devs decided to tune down the "weapon strike" value of a particular power then all your testing would now be worth sh~t. And they probably will, once the actual balancing process begins. We can whine/bash/prophecy DOOM when that part actually happens, but until then we barely even have a baseline for what we should be arguing about.
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It is just my opinion. Feytouched do not need buff. He had increases all damage by 18%. He scale already.
Classic characteristics for the character: 75% Base CritSev, 10% from boons, 10% from pots. Total 95%. With Vorpal 95%+50%=145%. DPS = (1+CA+CritChance*CritSev)*SomeBuffs*BaseDamage.
Now we draw the graphs of dps from critical strike chance and WE. Pink. Vorpal. Without CA. DPS = (1+CritChance*1.45) . Red. Vorpal. CA=30%. DPS = (1+0.3+CritChance*1.45) . Gray. Fey. Without CA. DPS = (1+CritChance*0.95)*1.18 . Black. Fey. CA=30%. DPS = (1+0.3+CritChance*0.95)*1.18 . CritChance from 30% to 100%. It is seen that Vorpal wins only in the case of high values of critical strike chance.
And one example, when Fey is better than Vorpal almost always. HR with feats Rising Focus (15% CritSev) and Skirmishers Gambit (50% CritSev), 10% from boons, 10% from pots. Pink. Vorpal. Without CA. DPS = (1+CritChance*2.1) . Red. Vorpal. CA=30%. DPS = (1+0.3+CritChance*2.1) . Gray. Fey. Without CA. DPS = (1+CritChance*1.6)*1.18 . Black. Fey. CA=30%. DPS = (1+0.3+CritChance*1.6)*1.18 . CritChance from 30% to 100%.
It should also be noted that Fey reduces enemy damage by 18%. What is another of its very strong advantage.
this is totally true!
i havent used act but im obviously can see with my eyes , im TR and i have both enchantment.
fey and vorpal exactly having same damage and fey gives u damn amazing damage reduction its not fair , u make plp no mean to use vorpal
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Simple fix damage increase as target HP goes down....That would completly take away 1 shot builds but still make SE usefull.
But with runic weapons you are being hit for 200k+ from FULL HP.
You are right, if i want to make a full deflect build i couldn't.
I dont want to keep this conversation in the inapropriate topic so i'll just say SE and piercing blades are very problematic in pvp and should be rearanged.
Now back to topic after trying enchantments on HR i have to agree with what was already said, the rework wont make them close to viable, either a timer is set and damage is increased or skills are reworked individually like steal time on CW procing lightning on every affected target several times a second.
What changes were made to Barkshield if i may ask please?
Transcendent has 4 charges each charge is a 20k shield they recharge in 6 seconds each.
thanks for info much app!
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2017
Ok, keep in mind I will give feedback on 1 enchant at a time, as I test them. I am not going to give feedback on whether or not they do too much damage or not, since they are going to change a lot over time and other people can give sufficient feedback on that. I will focus more on the mechanics of these enchantments.
I am starting off with bilethorn, since it interested me the most. Keep in mind I am testing from a CW perspective:
Here is my spreadsheet for bilethorn.
Here is the toon I tested with.
Some interesting notes:
1) Bilethorn is Single Target or AoE depending on what procs it. If it procs off a single target ability, it is single target, if it procs off an AoE, it is AoE.
2) Bilethorn benefits from Arcane Stacks if procced off an Arcane Skill, or if procced off a cold skill with Arcane Presence.
3) Bilethorn procs 60 times off of imprisonment.
4) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc Bilethorn.
5) If the ability that procs Bilethorn crits, Bilethorn also crits.
6) Bilethorn does benefit from chilling presence, your int modifier, your power and some buffs.
7) Lostmauth's Vengeance and Aura of Courage do not proc off Bilethorn.
8) Bilethorn's DoT updates dynamically as buffs are applied/fall off and as power is added/lost.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: Bilethorn Damage.
Some abilities proc the bilethorn attack and DoT for 1.6 times the expected value. I suspect these are actually the chill stacks that are applied by the ability, for example, Ice Knife applied 3 chill stacks, hits once and procs bilethorn 4 times. I suspect 3 of the 4 procs are from the chill stacks.
Bug: Bilethorn DoT.
The DoT on Bilethorn does not scale and does not crit.
Bug: Bilethorn Reduces CC effects.
The slow effect on Bilethorn reduces the duration of CCs, for example, it removes chill stacks applied by Icy Terrain, making it hard to freeze targets.
Bug: Bilethorn procs Abyss of Chaos.
The weapon enchant counts as an ally and procs abyss.
Bug: Skills not Proccing Bilethorn.
Arcane Singularity, Shard of Endless Avalanche, Maelstrom of Chaos and Furious Immolation do not proc Bilethorn.
Bug: Tooltip Updates:
The weapon damage percentage updates as you add/remove gear, even though the base weapon damage percentage isn't actually changing.
Bug: Imprisonment vs Control Immune Targets.
Imprisonment does not CC them however it does make them immune to damage. This should be fixed as it is essentially a tool for trolling.
Feedback: Imprisonment.
Imprisonment should not proc weapon enchantments 60 times, with scaling weapon enchantment damage this gives ridiculous burst potential.
The weapon damage percentage updates as you add/remove gear, even though the base weapon damage percentage isn't actually changing.
As people are reporting that the amount of weapon damage "scales with power" but probably haven't comprehensively tested to confirm whether or not the amount of damage is actually changing, this may be a bug across multiple enchant types.
The weapon damage percentage updates as you add/remove gear, even though the base weapon damage percentage isn't actually changing.
As people are reporting that the amount of weapon damage "scales with power" but probably haven't comprehensively tested to confirm whether or not the amount of damage is actually changing, this may be a bug across multiple enchant types.
The damages are increasing with changes in power, probably the math behind the game updates the tooltip based on multipliers on player and then applies that weapon damage based only on crit and debufs on target....just another way to work, doesn't seem wrong.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Please keep your comments on topic. Removed all the "nerf TR" stuff I saw (may have missed one or 2). Thanks.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
just this for now: the cost of swapping enchants has increased to 3,5 gold this feels like a move in the wrong direction for alt friendly play...
@ilmenira This appears to be the normal (live) cost for popping an enchant out of legendary equipment. Unless you mean that was what it cost to remove from epic on preview.
nice move to fix those enchants, most of them hed been from no interest for ages...just sold my pBarkshield for 1.6 mio I hope we will see anything else than pure dps builds in PVE in the near future, this will be a new creative playground for so many setups. Why don´t you care about Bronzewood, it was meaningless for so long and should get a fix too imho ?
Someone more enthusiastic than me might want to crunch these numbers but heres my results recorded with Advanced Combat Tracker. How i tested: 4k GWF swordmaster destroyer high crit build. Summoned pet Fire archon with 3 x r12 bondings equiped. Full r12 brutals equiped on offensive slots (inc pet) base power 30k,base crit 14k (Unbuffed by other players). Attacking standard test dummy (should note test dummy has no defence to be reduced by plague fire or terror ,and also has no damage to steal via feytouched). Using Test weapon with transcendant enchant equiped. Average test time about 5 minutes but this varied so ignore the total damage column only the average damages are relevant.
An important note: my GWF is a high crit build and therefore changing my brutal enchants to radiant as well as changing feats and boons in order to go pure power build would result in higher dps using the power based enchants.So its hard to compare dps with the non crit enchants without completely changing and respec toon.
I have also saved each combat log seperately in case anyone wants to look at the detailed results using advanced combat tracker.
Thx for the testings. Does terror spend it´s powerbuff vs. a dummy?
On Xbox the Pure Vorpal (rank 11) buffs the mobs instead of debuffing them, the rank 10 is fine, not sure about the rank 12. This was fixed on the PC (hear say) but the fix never made it to the consoles.
- Now we got weapon enchantments and their strength got scaled to power which may result in 5% fo weapon damage as much as 500% weapon damage, imagine person with bondings, fully buffed - annointed army, mof CW combustive+swath, into the fray and pillar of power and this hits created by new enchantments can crit which is as it is now already far more powerful than lostmauth's vengeance and these damage are affected by orcus set obviously which boosts damage somwhere from 10%-20% damage and other conditional modifiers like companions modify it too.
@etelgrin you must also add this new Weapon set buff to the equation:
Firesoul: When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you become Fortified, which increases your defense by 5% and adds your Defense to your Power, to a max of 30% increase of your total Power.
tested pure plaugefire , damage mods do not work on dps it still do 20to40 damage while they work on initial damage and it does around 1-3k per proc
plaugefire could use some buffing its quite weak right now
Post edited by warpet on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2017
Ok, here is my feedback for Plaguefire:
Spreadsheet ^
I won't add any info about the debuff on plaguefire, @michela123 has that covered in her post.
Interesting notes:
1) The trans PF has a hidden DoT which is not listed in the tooltip, which hits for 0.5% of your weapon damage. This means that PF has the initial hit for 12% of weapon damage, the first DoT which hits for 5% of weapon damage and then the second DoT which hits for 0.5% of weapon damage. It also has the PF AoE hit, but I will describe that further on.
2) PF is AoE or single target depending on what procs it. If a single target ability procs it, it is modified by abilities that modify single target, if it is AoE it is altered by AoE modifiers.
3) The initial hit, primary DoT and secondary DoT are modified by buffs, power, etc.
4) If the hit that procs PF crits, the initial hit, DoT and secondary DoT also crit.
5) The PF AoE has an internal range separate from weapon damage. I have no idea what it is based off, but even with fixed damage weapons, the damage dealt varies when procced on a single skill and also varies from skill to skill. My suspicion is it relates in some way to the ability that procs it. Example:
The procs for 42, 48 and 96 were off of chilling cloud, the proc for 192 was off of Icy Terrain.
6) PF benefits from Arcane Stacks if procced by an Arcane Skill, or if you have Arcane Presence slotted+use a cold spell.
7) The PF DoTs are dynamic and the damage will update as you equip/remove gear, or as buffs come up and fall off.
8) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc PF.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: PF AoE not Scaling.
The AoE hit that procs once every 20 seconds does not scale with buffs/power/int etc. However, it does benefit from debuffs.
Bug: PF AoE Multiproccing.
Abilities that hit multiple times will proc the AoE for each hit after this hit that applies the third stack. For example, Oppressive Force does this:
You can see it procced 3 times in a 1 second time frame. Imprisonment makes the AoE hit 57 times.
Bug: Some Abilities Proccing the DoT Less or More than 3 Times.
Refer to spreadsheet above for details.
Bug: Some hits for 1.6 Times More than Expected.
Details in spreadsheet.
Feedback: Dev Feedback.
@rgutscheradev can you please update me if you fix any of the bugs on these enchantments that I have reported or change these enchantments in any way. There is a lot of effort on my part that goes into checking these enchantments and I don't have the time to keep redoing these tests every so often, so just a note to say, "we changed this, would you mind checking it?" would be really appreciated.
OP said: "The goal is NOT to make these other WEs better than Dread or Vorpal" more lies?
Only thing performing more than probably wanted is just Lightning.
Bilethorn is underwhelming still.
Flaming is in the same boat as PF. It's @#$%in horrible. The DoT needs a SERIOUS buff. 10-40 damage DoT across a few classes I tried it with. The DoT should at least be doing 3000 or more.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Please explain to me how is these changes different to already nerfed in the past Lostmauth's Vengeance.
- Lostmauths Vengeance did only hit for weapon damage which is say 100% and was able to crit which already created huge damage imbalance because of ability to self buff certain classes and in general all around buffs made it hit for far more than intended. - Now we got weapon enchantments and their strength got scaled to power which may result in 5% fo weapon damage as much as 500% weapon damage, imagine person with bondings, fully buffed - annointed army, mof CW combustive+swath, into the fray and pillar of power and this hits created by new enchantments can crit which is as it is now already far more powerful than lostmauth's vengeance and these damage are affected by orcus set obviously which boosts damage somwhere from 10%-20% damage and other conditional modifiers like companions modify it too. - and then add ability to chain this between the mobs - Transcendent Lightning enchantment = New Lostmauth's Vengeance.
Do not overlook the fact that they scale infinitely, the more experienced and better at synergising bufs the group is the more effective it will become.
The answer is simple LM set was a clear advantage when compared to a specific stats belts, devs said a long time ago that sets should be something only significative ( yeah orcus is.....a little bit more than that), but weapon enchants on the other hand should be something really effective and face it the "correspondent" to vorpal in damage is flamming it is now a possibility for non crit build ( like i said before i got results in multi target for a 50% crit change more or less CW for 38% of the damage, as crit and power goes up this & will remain, taking apart 1 or other case, while with a vorpal i could never reach such amount at 50% crit) for some classes.
@thefabricant please try the lightning after it is much probable that the way is all CW's will switch to lightning and at single target fight to vorpal.....and other classes will whine because CW's are too powerfull(and needed because of these mobs so happy to control us) and after 4 months CW's get their lighning proc reduced....anyway avoiding this same old story would be nice.
I won't add any info about the debuff on plaguefire, @michela123 has that covered in her post.
Interesting notes:
1) The trans PF has a hidden DoT which is not listed in the tooltip, which hits for 0.5% of your weapon damage. This means that PF has the initial hit for 12% of weapon damage, the first DoT which hits for 5% of weapon damage and then the second DoT which hits for 0.5% of weapon damage. It also has the PF AoE hit, but I will describe that further on.
2) PF is AoE or single target depending on what procs it. If a single target ability procs it, it is modified by abilities that modify single target, if it is AoE it is altered by AoE modifiers.
3) The initial hit, primary DoT and secondary DoT are modified by buffs, power, etc.
4) If the hit that procs PF crits, the initial hit, DoT and secondary DoT also crit.
5) The PF AoE has an internal range separate from weapon damage. I have no idea what it is based off, but even with fixed damage weapons, the damage dealt varies when procced on a single skill and also varies from skill to skill. My suspicion is it relates in some way to the ability that procs it. Example:
The procs for 42, 48 and 96 were off of chilling cloud, the proc for 192 was off of Icy Terrain.
6) PF is an Arcane skill, benefits from Arcane stacks but not from Arcane Presence.
7) The PF DoTs are dynamic and the damage will update as you equip/remove gear, or as buffs come up and fall off.
8) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc PF.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: PF AoE not Scaling.
The AoE hit that procs once every 20 seconds does not scale with buffs/power/int etc. However, it does benefit from debuffs.
Bug: PF AoE Multiproccing.
Abilities that hit multiple times will proc the AoE for each hit after this hit that applies the third stack. For example, Oppressive Force does this:
You can see it procced 3 times in a 1 second time frame. Imprisonment makes the AoE hit 57 times.
Bug: Some Abilities Proccing the DoT Less or More than 3 Times.
Refer to spreadsheet above for details.
Bug: Some hits for 1.6 Times More than Expected.
Details in spreadsheet.
Feedback: Dev Feedback.
@rgutscheradev can you please update me if you fix any of the bugs on these enchantments that I have reported or change these enchantments in any way. There is a lot of effort on my part that goes into checking these enchantments and I don't have the time to keep redoing these tests every so often, so just a note to say, "we changed this, would you mind checking it?" would be really appreciated.
are you sure about secondary dps working right?on my gwf initial hit was around 1.1k to 3.6k in most of fights and highest damage proc was 5.6k while secondary dps was from 20 to 40 damage so i cant see how damage mods work right because it should have been at least around 20% of initial hit or 250 to 1k+
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I won't add any info about the debuff on plaguefire, @michela123 has that covered in her post.
Interesting notes:
1) The trans PF has a hidden DoT which is not listed in the tooltip, which hits for 0.5% of your weapon damage. This means that PF has the initial hit for 12% of weapon damage, the first DoT which hits for 5% of weapon damage and then the second DoT which hits for 0.5% of weapon damage. It also has the PF AoE hit, but I will describe that further on.
2) PF is AoE or single target depending on what procs it. If a single target ability procs it, it is modified by abilities that modify single target, if it is AoE it is altered by AoE modifiers.
3) The initial hit, primary DoT and secondary DoT are modified by buffs, power, etc.
4) If the hit that procs PF crits, the initial hit, DoT and secondary DoT also crit.
5) The PF AoE has an internal range separate from weapon damage. I have no idea what it is based off, but even with fixed damage weapons, the damage dealt varies when procced on a single skill and also varies from skill to skill. My suspicion is it relates in some way to the ability that procs it. Example:
The procs for 42, 48 and 96 were off of chilling cloud, the proc for 192 was off of Icy Terrain.
6) PF is an Arcane skill, benefits from Arcane stacks but not from Arcane Presence.
7) The PF DoTs are dynamic and the damage will update as you equip/remove gear, or as buffs come up and fall off.
8) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc PF.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: PF AoE not Scaling.
The AoE hit that procs once every 20 seconds does not scale with buffs/power/int etc. However, it does benefit from debuffs.
Bug: PF AoE Multiproccing.
Abilities that hit multiple times will proc the AoE for each hit after this hit that applies the third stack. For example, Oppressive Force does this:
You can see it procced 3 times in a 1 second time frame. Imprisonment makes the AoE hit 57 times.
Bug: Some Abilities Proccing the DoT Less or More than 3 Times.
Refer to spreadsheet above for details.
Bug: Some hits for 1.6 Times More than Expected.
Details in spreadsheet.
Feedback: Dev Feedback.
@rgutscheradev can you please update me if you fix any of the bugs on these enchantments that I have reported or change these enchantments in any way. There is a lot of effort on my part that goes into checking these enchantments and I don't have the time to keep redoing these tests every so often, so just a note to say, "we changed this, would you mind checking it?" would be really appreciated.
are you sure about secondary dps working right?on my gwf initial hit was around 1.1k to 3.6k in most of fights and highest damage proc was 5.6k while secondary dps was from 20 to 40 damage so i cant see how damage mods work right because it should have been at least around 20% of initial hit or 250 to 1k+
Please explain to me how is these changes different to already nerfed in the past Lostmauth's Vengeance.
- Lostmauths Vengeance did only hit for weapon damage which is say 100% and was able to crit which already created huge damage imbalance because of ability to self buff certain classes and in general all around buffs made it hit for far more than intended. - Now we got weapon enchantments and their strength got scaled to power which may result in 5% fo weapon damage as much as 500% weapon damage, imagine person with bondings, fully buffed - annointed army, mof CW combustive+swath, into the fray and pillar of power and this hits created by new enchantments can crit which is as it is now already far more powerful than lostmauth's vengeance and these damage are affected by orcus set obviously which boosts damage somwhere from 10%-20% damage and other conditional modifiers like companions modify it too. - and then add ability to chain this between the mobs - Transcendent Lightning enchantment = New Lostmauth's Vengeance.
Do not overlook the fact that they scale infinitely, the more experienced and better at synergising bufs the group is the more effective it will become.
The answer is simple LM set was a clear advantage when compared to a specific stats belts, devs said a long time ago that sets should be something only significative ( yeah orcus is.....a little bit more than that), but weapon enchants on the other hand should be something really effective and face it the "correspondent" to vorpal in damage is flamming it is now a possibility for non crit build ( like i said before i got results in multi target for a 50% crit change more or less CW for 38% of the damage, as crit and power goes up this & will remain, taking apart 1 or other case, while with a vorpal i could never reach such amount at 50% crit) for some classes.
@thefabricant please try the lightning after it is much probable that the way is all CW's will switch to lightning and at single target fight to vorpal.....and other classes will whine because CW's are too powerfull(and needed because of these mobs so happy to control us) and after 4 months CW's get their lighning proc reduced....anyway avoiding this same old story would be nice.
I intend to try all of them and give feedback, but it takes time to test these things so I will probably post 1 enchant per day.
OP said: "The goal is NOT to make these other WEs better than Dread or Vorpal" more lies?
Only thing performing more than probably wanted is just Lightning.
Bilethorn is underwhelming still.
Flaming is in the same boat as PF. It's @#$%in horrible. The DoT needs a SERIOUS buff. 10-40 damage DoT across a few classes I tried it with. The DoT should at least be doing 3000 or more.
OP said: "The goal is NOT to make these other WEs better than Dread or Vorpal" more lies?
Only thing performing more than probably wanted is just Lightning.
Bilethorn is underwhelming still.
Flaming is in the same boat as PF. It's @#$%in horrible. The DoT needs a SERIOUS buff. 10-40 damage DoT across a few classes I tried it with. The DoT should at least be doing 3000 or more.
OP said: "The goal is NOT to make these other WEs better than Dread or Vorpal" more lies?
Only thing performing more than probably wanted is just Lightning.
Bilethorn is underwhelming still.
Flaming is in the same boat as PF. It's @#$%in horrible. The DoT needs a SERIOUS buff. 10-40 damage DoT across a few classes I tried it with. The DoT should at least be doing 3000 or more.
Yes but its the second or third time they do this with trans light...so the olayers spend (not my case btw) and bang next comes the HAMSTER nerf!
I won't add any info about the debuff on plaguefire, @michela123 has that covered in her post.
Interesting notes:
1) The trans PF has a hidden DoT which is not listed in the tooltip, which hits for 0.5% of your weapon damage. This means that PF has the initial hit for 12% of weapon damage, the first DoT which hits for 5% of weapon damage and then the second DoT which hits for 0.5% of weapon damage. It also has the PF AoE hit, but I will describe that further on.
2) PF is AoE or single target depending on what procs it. If a single target ability procs it, it is modified by abilities that modify single target, if it is AoE it is altered by AoE modifiers.
3) The initial hit, primary DoT and secondary DoT are modified by buffs, power, etc.
4) If the hit that procs PF crits, the initial hit, DoT and secondary DoT also crit.
5) The PF AoE has an internal range separate from weapon damage. I have no idea what it is based off, but even with fixed damage weapons, the damage dealt varies when procced on a single skill and also varies from skill to skill. My suspicion is it relates in some way to the ability that procs it. Example:
The procs for 42, 48 and 96 were off of chilling cloud, the proc for 192 was off of Icy Terrain.
6) PF is an Arcane skill, benefits from Arcane stacks but not from Arcane Presence.
7) The PF DoTs are dynamic and the damage will update as you equip/remove gear, or as buffs come up and fall off.
8) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc PF.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: PF AoE not Scaling.
The AoE hit that procs once every 20 seconds does not scale with buffs/power/int etc. However, it does benefit from debuffs.
Bug: PF AoE Multiproccing.
Abilities that hit multiple times will proc the AoE for each hit after this hit that applies the third stack. For example, Oppressive Force does this:
You can see it procced 3 times in a 1 second time frame. Imprisonment makes the AoE hit 57 times.
Bug: Some Abilities Proccing the DoT Less or More than 3 Times.
Refer to spreadsheet above for details.
Bug: Some hits for 1.6 Times More than Expected.
Details in spreadsheet.
Feedback: Dev Feedback.
@rgutscheradev can you please update me if you fix any of the bugs on these enchantments that I have reported or change these enchantments in any way. There is a lot of effort on my part that goes into checking these enchantments and I don't have the time to keep redoing these tests every so often, so just a note to say, "we changed this, would you mind checking it?" would be really appreciated.
are you sure about secondary dps working right?on my gwf initial hit was around 1.1k to 3.6k in most of fights and highest damage proc was 5.6k while secondary dps was from 20 to 40 damage so i cant see how damage mods work right because it should have been at least around 20% of initial hit or 250 to 1k+
Maybe it's because he's not wearing any equip only the mainhand and WE?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I think lightning should be the opposite of what it is now.
Now the single target is too good. It's a win win on all fronts.
The initial hit should be subpar, the chains should be the core of the damage.
A mob pack enchantment for AoE enthusiasts. Where single target is your drawback.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I won't add any info about the debuff on plaguefire, @michela123 has that covered in her post.
Interesting notes:
1) The trans PF has a hidden DoT which is not listed in the tooltip, which hits for 0.5% of your weapon damage. This means that PF has the initial hit for 12% of weapon damage, the first DoT which hits for 5% of weapon damage and then the second DoT which hits for 0.5% of weapon damage. It also has the PF AoE hit, but I will describe that further on.
2) PF is AoE or single target depending on what procs it. If a single target ability procs it, it is modified by abilities that modify single target, if it is AoE it is altered by AoE modifiers.
3) The initial hit, primary DoT and secondary DoT are modified by buffs, power, etc.
4) If the hit that procs PF crits, the initial hit, DoT and secondary DoT also crit.
5) The PF AoE has an internal range separate from weapon damage. I have no idea what it is based off, but even with fixed damage weapons, the damage dealt varies when procced on a single skill and also varies from skill to skill. My suspicion is it relates in some way to the ability that procs it. Example:
The procs for 42, 48 and 96 were off of chilling cloud, the proc for 192 was off of Icy Terrain.
6) PF is an Arcane skill, benefits from Arcane stacks but not from Arcane Presence.
7) The PF DoTs are dynamic and the damage will update as you equip/remove gear, or as buffs come up and fall off.
8) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc PF.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: PF AoE not Scaling.
The AoE hit that procs once every 20 seconds does not scale with buffs/power/int etc. However, it does benefit from debuffs.
Bug: PF AoE Multiproccing.
Abilities that hit multiple times will proc the AoE for each hit after this hit that applies the third stack. For example, Oppressive Force does this:
You can see it procced 3 times in a 1 second time frame. Imprisonment makes the AoE hit 57 times.
Bug: Some Abilities Proccing the DoT Less or More than 3 Times.
Refer to spreadsheet above for details.
Bug: Some hits for 1.6 Times More than Expected.
Details in spreadsheet.
Feedback: Dev Feedback.
@rgutscheradev can you please update me if you fix any of the bugs on these enchantments that I have reported or change these enchantments in any way. There is a lot of effort on my part that goes into checking these enchantments and I don't have the time to keep redoing these tests every so often, so just a note to say, "we changed this, would you mind checking it?" would be really appreciated.
are you sure about secondary dps working right?on my gwf initial hit was around 1.1k to 3.6k in most of fights and highest damage proc was 5.6k while secondary dps was from 20 to 40 damage so i cant see how damage mods work right because it should have been at least around 20% of initial hit or 250 to 1k+
Maybe it's because he's not wearing any equip only the mainhand and WE?
No, I am 100% sure it is scaling because I checked for scaling, by starting with the base value and then adding 1 thing at a time to check if it boosted the dps of the enchant by the expected amount. I didn't just randomly put stuff on and say, "oh that looks too low."
then explain me how do i have 20 or less and 3k procs if mods work right,testing was done in new advanture zone this char have 31k base power,bonding pet and 57% resit ignored
then explain me how do i have 20 or less and 3k procs if mods work right,testing was done in new advanture zone this char have 31k base power,bonding pet and 57% resit ignored
Because, if you read what I wrote, there is a hidden DoT, which procs for 0.5% of your weapon damage.
If you have 1000 weapon damage, it procs for 5 damage. With 40k power, it does slightly more than 10 damage. With a bunch of buffs, it does some higher values. The point is, you starting with a DoT that does a bare fraction of the damage of your weapon and you scaling it.
The DoT isn't listed in the tooltip, but it exists.
Comments
Approximately ZERO balancing has been done.
Which is why I keep insisting that we focus mostly on weapon enchantment strike procs and their behaviour (ie, how they scale with buffs, debuffs, etc). Because the rest can be figured out once we know the basics.
Many powers basically have a "weapon strike" component in them, which procs weapon enchantments. It's conceivable that this shows up simply as a line of code or a value (ie, a particular encounter power generates an "x" number of weapon strikes). We know that the mechanics of this is trickier on some powers than others (especially powers that also affect allies, like Divine Glow - the reason it can't proc weapon enchantments probably has something to do with how it might also affect allies if it did) but we also know that the devs can choose to add/remove more weapon strikes from powers if they wanted to. There's obviously a function for it since there's a rhyme and reason to how it works (only specific damage over time powers have it, for example).
Which is why I find it ridiculous that people seem to be going overboard with rotation testing, seeing as if the devs decided to tune down the "weapon strike" value of a particular power then all your testing would now be worth sh~t.
And they probably will, once the actual balancing process begins. We can whine/bash/prophecy DOOM when that part actually happens, but until then we barely even have a baseline for what we should be arguing about.
i havent used act but im obviously can see with my eyes , im TR and i have both enchantment.
fey and vorpal exactly having same damage and fey gives u damn amazing damage reduction its not fair , u make plp no mean to use vorpal
I dont want to keep this conversation in the inapropriate topic so i'll just say SE and piercing blades are very problematic in pvp and should be rearanged.
Now back to topic after trying enchantments on HR i have to agree with what was already said, the rework wont make them close to viable, either a timer is set and damage is increased or skills are reworked individually like steal time on CW procing lightning on every affected target several times a second.
Holly avenger should AT LEAST crit the heal.
I am starting off with bilethorn, since it interested me the most. Keep in mind I am testing from a CW perspective:
Here is my spreadsheet for bilethorn.
Here is the toon I tested with.
Some interesting notes:
1) Bilethorn is Single Target or AoE depending on what procs it. If it procs off a single target ability, it is single target, if it procs off an AoE, it is AoE.
2) Bilethorn benefits from Arcane Stacks if procced off an Arcane Skill, or if procced off a cold skill with Arcane Presence.
3) Bilethorn procs 60 times off of imprisonment.
4) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc Bilethorn.
5) If the ability that procs Bilethorn crits, Bilethorn also crits.
6) Bilethorn does benefit from chilling presence, your int modifier, your power and some buffs.
7) Lostmauth's Vengeance and Aura of Courage do not proc off Bilethorn.
8) Bilethorn's DoT updates dynamically as buffs are applied/fall off and as power is added/lost.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: Bilethorn Damage.
Some abilities proc the bilethorn attack and DoT for 1.6 times the expected value. I suspect these are actually the chill stacks that are applied by the ability, for example, Ice Knife applied 3 chill stacks, hits once and procs bilethorn 4 times. I suspect 3 of the 4 procs are from the chill stacks.
Bug: Bilethorn DoT.
The DoT on Bilethorn does not scale and does not crit.
Bug: Bilethorn Reduces CC effects.
The slow effect on Bilethorn reduces the duration of CCs, for example, it removes chill stacks applied by Icy Terrain, making it hard to freeze targets.
Bug: Bilethorn procs Abyss of Chaos.
The weapon enchant counts as an ally and procs abyss.
Bug: Skills not Proccing Bilethorn.
Arcane Singularity, Shard of Endless Avalanche, Maelstrom of Chaos and Furious Immolation do not proc Bilethorn.
Bug: Tooltip Updates:
The weapon damage percentage updates as you add/remove gear, even though the base weapon damage percentage isn't actually changing.
Bug: Imprisonment vs Control Immune Targets.
Imprisonment does not CC them however it does make them immune to damage. This should be fixed as it is essentially a tool for trolling.
Feedback: Imprisonment.
Imprisonment should not proc weapon enchantments 60 times, with scaling weapon enchantment damage this gives ridiculous burst potential.
Question 1: - is there any way to allow you to choose an enchantment effect once you have used it before ?
Best looking enchant is in my honest opinon Terror - its animation is fantastic
I use Vorpal as i am a GWF but its animation is Meh
Also is there a chance while doing Weapon enchants to change the animation(s) of Negation / Shadowclad
Negation: Remove the all over Glitter effect and make a better new effect ?
Shadowclad - to allow it to constantly "Spike" and remove the Shield like icon that appears every 8 seconds>? its one of the best looking
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I hope we will see anything else than pure dps builds in PVE in the near future, this will be a new creative playground for so many setups.
Why don´t you care about Bronzewood, it was meaningless for so long and should get a fix too imho ? Thx for the testings.
Does terror spend it´s powerbuff vs. a dummy?
Firesoul: When you damage an enemy, there is a chance you become Fortified, which increases your defense by 5% and adds your Defense to your Power, to a max of 30% increase of your total Power.
plaugefire could use some buffing its quite weak right now
Spreadsheet ^
I won't add any info about the debuff on plaguefire, @michela123 has that covered in her post.
Interesting notes:
1) The trans PF has a hidden DoT which is not listed in the tooltip, which hits for 0.5% of your weapon damage. This means that PF has the initial hit for 12% of weapon damage, the first DoT which hits for 5% of weapon damage and then the second DoT which hits for 0.5% of weapon damage. It also has the PF AoE hit, but I will describe that further on.
2) PF is AoE or single target depending on what procs it. If a single target ability procs it, it is modified by abilities that modify single target, if it is AoE it is altered by AoE modifiers.
3) The initial hit, primary DoT and secondary DoT are modified by buffs, power, etc.
4) If the hit that procs PF crits, the initial hit, DoT and secondary DoT also crit.
5) The PF AoE has an internal range separate from weapon damage. I have no idea what it is based off, but even with fixed damage weapons, the damage dealt varies when procced on a single skill and also varies from skill to skill. My suspicion is it relates in some way to the ability that procs it. Example:
The procs for 42, 48 and 96 were off of chilling cloud, the proc for 192 was off of Icy Terrain.
6) PF benefits from Arcane Stacks if procced by an Arcane Skill, or if you have Arcane Presence slotted+use a cold spell.
7) The PF DoTs are dynamic and the damage will update as you equip/remove gear, or as buffs come up and fall off.
8) Neither Storm Spell nor Smoulder proc PF.
Now, onto the bug reports:
Bug: PF AoE not Scaling.
The AoE hit that procs once every 20 seconds does not scale with buffs/power/int etc. However, it does benefit from debuffs.
Bug: PF AoE Multiproccing.
Abilities that hit multiple times will proc the AoE for each hit after this hit that applies the third stack. For example, Oppressive Force does this:
You can see it procced 3 times in a 1 second time frame. Imprisonment makes the AoE hit 57 times.
Bug: Some Abilities Proccing the DoT Less or More than 3 Times.
Refer to spreadsheet above for details.
Bug: Some hits for 1.6 Times More than Expected.
Details in spreadsheet.
Feedback: Dev Feedback.
@rgutscheradev can you please update me if you fix any of the bugs on these enchantments that I have reported or change these enchantments in any way. There is a lot of effort on my part that goes into checking these enchantments and I don't have the time to keep redoing these tests every so often, so just a note to say, "we changed this, would you mind checking it?" would be really appreciated.
Bilethorn is underwhelming still.
Flaming is in the same boat as PF. It's @#$%in horrible. The DoT needs a SERIOUS buff. 10-40 damage DoT across a few classes I tried it with. The DoT should at least be doing 3000 or more.
@thefabricant please try the lightning after it is much probable that the way is all CW's will switch to lightning and at single target fight to vorpal.....and other classes will whine because CW's are too powerfull(and needed because of these mobs so happy to control us) and after 4 months CW's get their lighning proc reduced....anyway avoiding this same old story would be nice.
Now the single target is too good. It's a win win on all fronts.
The initial hit should be subpar, the chains should be the core of the damage.
A mob pack enchantment for AoE enthusiasts. Where single target is your drawback.
then explain me how do i have 20 or less and 3k procs if mods work right,testing was done in new advanture zone this char have 31k base power,bonding pet and 57% resit ignored
and this is all outgoing damage
https://www.dropbox.com/s/52ztw90y4en78dm/all damage.png?dl=0
If you have 1000 weapon damage, it procs for 5 damage. With 40k power, it does slightly more than 10 damage. With a bunch of buffs, it does some higher values. The point is, you starting with a DoT that does a bare fraction of the damage of your weapon and you scaling it.
The DoT isn't listed in the tooltip, but it exists.