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What/which do you think the main problem on PvP Is?
clonkyo1
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,553 Arc User
After reading a lot of opinions and "opinions" (notice quotes here), i came with a good idea: Let's see what PvP players do main think about which/what is the main problem on PvP.
Let me explain a bit the points on this poll:
1 - "Class balance": Classes doing other classes' jobs like, in example, GF class: Can buff the party, can TANK the party and deal damage like a striker. GWF over self healing. CW doing the "support + damage + control" role, etc.
2 - Gear/stats Gap: This is enchants over certain ranks (either weapon/armor enchants over Perfer, IMO [you can state your "over rank" here too if you want] and off/deff/uty slots), mounts bonusses + insignias, boons, SH boons and stuff, etc
3 - Some class and game mechanics like "piercing Damage + S.E. + First Strike" . Plant grown + piercing blades . GWFs and GFs self buffs, Astral Shield, Pallys' buggy mechanics, our friends the drains, etc.
4 - Match making: basically, premades vs pugs and experienced players vs new players.
5 - Gear Wall: RP system (enchantments) + restoring system + PvP gear only aviable on medium guilds + RP system (artifacts) + RP system (legendary sets [neck + waist + arti sets]) + RP System (weapon set)
EDIT to make this clearlier: With this question i want to know what do 'you all' think about "what exactly" is making PvP this unhealthy, that's why wrote 1 option per line, not 2 or even 3.
I think that, even if Gear Gap has a really big impact on PvP, the main problem on PvP is still the very same problem that PvE has: class balance.
Let me explain a bit the points on this poll:
1 - "Class balance": Classes doing other classes' jobs like, in example, GF class: Can buff the party, can TANK the party and deal damage like a striker. GWF over self healing. CW doing the "support + damage + control" role, etc.
2 - Gear/stats Gap: This is enchants over certain ranks (either weapon/armor enchants over Perfer, IMO [you can state your "over rank" here too if you want] and off/deff/uty slots), mounts bonusses + insignias, boons, SH boons and stuff, etc
3 - Some class and game mechanics like "piercing Damage + S.E. + First Strike" . Plant grown + piercing blades . GWFs and GFs self buffs, Astral Shield, Pallys' buggy mechanics, our friends the drains, etc.
4 - Match making: basically, premades vs pugs and experienced players vs new players.
5 - Gear Wall: RP system (enchantments) + restoring system + PvP gear only aviable on medium guilds + RP system (artifacts) + RP system (legendary sets [neck + waist + arti sets]) + RP System (weapon set)
EDIT to make this clearlier: With this question i want to know what do 'you all' think about "what exactly" is making PvP this unhealthy, that's why wrote 1 option per line, not 2 or even 3.
I think that, even if Gear Gap has a really big impact on PvP, the main problem on PvP is still the very same problem that PvE has: class balance.
What/which do you think the main problem on PvP Is? 68 votes
Class Balance.
22%
15 votes
gear gap
20%
14 votes
class and game mechanics
13%
9 votes
Match Making
35%
24 votes
Gear Wall
8%
6 votes
0
Comments
After that id have to say matchmaking because pugs have no chance to win against premades. They need solo que back to give them an arena to play in as well. If people truly wanted to fight in "premade 5v5 matches" they would only play the regular dom que. That and they need to make it impossible to que sync into the solo que when they release it.
@clonkyo1 add this to the poll
NO DUAL SPEC is the problem
there should be a default pvp loadout (detail can vary as to what default is) so any alts or mains can come to pvp be tenacified and not sabotage matches and not complain about swapping gear or gear takes up too much space etc or compain about repect tokens etc and not complain while doing pve they cant be in Q for pvp that way gear can also be locked as well (pvp mode) to establish a base line item level to Elco / or a semblance of match making that can work better . also player not familiar with pvp builds can be given a default pvp build arrays one as well (possibly even powers locked in too )
This is what screws up most matches and destroys will to play ...
Since I doubt Cryptic can implement any decent code for matchmaking the best they can do imo is to make sure we all go into pvp with similar gear.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
There's no reason strong PVE players shouldn't also be able to be strong PVP players--except for mystic *tenacity*.
Is this the top issue? I dunno. But it should be a choice.
The premade groups need two things:
1) a place to go to fight each other, and
2) a reason to fight each other instead of crushing solo players and fresh 70s.
Other than that, the only thing I've really run into that is frustrating, is the fact that I can kill many people in seconds... and some people, I can't even scratch their hp. I'm not even talking about tanks. Many classes. How is that even a thing? Not looking to debate. I clearly don't understand gear mechanics to that extent yet, that is all.
Why make a class that can stealth, then give stealth rings to everyone?
Tenacity is kind of a big deal. Two of three over-performng classes use encounters/dailies that ignore tencity. I don't know what is less piercing about Hidden Daggers or Crescendo than SE or Plant Growth--but there you are.
New characters or characters that want to try PVP shouldn't be shackled with a need to "gear up." When I first tried PVP, there wasn't anywhere near the gap in tenacity gear that there is now--and I earned my BI armor in PVE.
Tenacity, as it is implemented, greatly cuts into our choices for builds--not because they make sense--but becasue tenacity forces us to.
this is more a quality of life item then a game mechanic
Prior to Strongholds, the PvP gear available was only obtainable through PvP... or buying "blue" PvP gear off the auction house, which had been put there by someone who got it through PvP. The Battlescarred gear was decent enough to get you started... at which point you could start grinding for the glory needed to get the better sets. I remember doing just that. The matches back then were fun. A newcomer to PvP could hold their own against the better geared players much better than they can now. Sure, you died a lot... you lost more than you won... but eventually as you got more experienced and better gear... that started to change.
Once Strongholds came out, the balance of PvP tipped dramatically into the favor of the large PvP guilds. Before I go on... this is not a bash about the PvP guilds... nor is this any fault of theirs. With Lionsmane armor only available through Stonghold PvP... all the big guilds rushed to get it as fast as they could. The up side of this, is that the queue was always full... so matches were easy to get. Even with the blue guild PvP armor, you could hold your own as part of a 20 player team. But once the players in the PvP guilds had all gotten Lionsmane, they turned once again back to the 5 v 5 domination matches as their primary source of play... making the possibility of getting Lionsmane for the casual player very difficult at best.
Now... we have Warborn which can be bought using zen and tradebars... or off of the auction house if it is placed there, which just as good as Lionsmane, if not better in some cases... making the need to run Stronghold PvP obsolete. The queue never pops for it any longer. In addition... prestige pvp gear was released at the same time... requiring seals and glory... driving the final nail into stronghold PvP. Warborn armor has made PvP a true "pay to play" environment for newcomers who arent fortunate enough to already have a Lionsmane or even a Burning set.
The PvP queuing and matchmaking system are horribly broken... and have been for years. Queuing into regular domination without putting together a premade first... will almost certainly put you onto a team of PUGs... against a full premade on the other side. Not to mention the practice of some players.... of refusing to fight (we can save the discussion of whether or not this is pre-planned for another time) against members of their same guild or alliance on the other side... which spells doom for the PUG team, and ends up with 10 players standing around tossing insults at each other for the match duration instead of fighting.
Open world PvP? Almost non-existent for several modules now... although it is still possible to catch a good BiD match now and then. When it happens, its probably the most fun to be had in PvP... win or lose.
Can it be fixed? Not without a complete redo of the entire system... which would cause a massive backlash from the current pvp players... many of whom have spent small fortunes on gearing and building their characters.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
to get the best sets like has been said you need seals and honour, granted honour can be farmed even by newer players win or lose there's a way BUT seals that's another thing when every single (or 98%) of matches consist or hugely over geared players and they farm EVERY game, camp spawns or simply toy with you because they know you have no chance at all. get seals ! yeah you have to win a game first lol
i have on occasion won a game but thats like a 2% win rate v's equally geared players and in the games we've won (even had an advantage over people) we've never farmed or camped.
people say get better gear, blue set is like shooting a bullet through a piece of paper useless against maxed premades which is what is ALWAYS happening , lower tier epic set is a little better but hardly by much and again is like paper to these maxed out players, last epic set you need seals and like i said you need to win which for the most part is next to impossible.
so for the new player its lose lose lose all the way.
Don't mind my bias as a BiS player, but I don't find #2 and #5 to be relevant in the discussion to PvP since it should always be assumed that everyone has access to all the best equipment, boons, etc because realistically you do, you just have to earn it.
#1 is a yuuge problem aswell as #3 being a more precise assessment of the overall class balance issue. I agree with both being a problem but its up to the devs on how they would improve it.
Lastly #4 isn't something that can be solved unless its assumed that every Q that pops will match a 2+3 grp VS a 2+3 group or a 4v4 and each team gets a soloer, and even in both those cases there will certainly be imbalances.
Rethinking PvP in neverwinter as a whole, by making it more friendly to the smaller group settings (1v1, 2v2 and 3v3) instead of pushing larger scale settings of 5s 10s and 20s could be more beneficial in weeding out the real class imbalances when weighing one class VS another. Which would help the larger scale PvP settings balance themselves out aswell.
Id really like to see a deathmatch format in smaller group settings, which would help the devs address whats wrong with the over abundance of healing, lifesteal, and one shots in PvP.
Edit: I COMPLETELY FORGOT MY BIGGEST POINT......make PvP rewarding for the winner so incentivizes making a BiS character and being the best at your class, IE Titles, Mounts, Companions, and AD generation all through PvP which would also give PvE players a reason to dip their feet in there and see how well they can do. 3 or 4k RAD isn't enough, at all.
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The Kanye West of Neverwinter
Second thing harming PvP is class balance; nobody likes a one rotation or one shot class, yet they're everywhere.
If it were me, for PvP, along with companions also disable mount bonuses. Leave the mount power, its cool watching a snail punt a witless player off the node. Getting back to button mashing and two sticks before all the self healing is where PvP should be. Except, I am attacking the bottom line.
The gear issue is definitely moot. We all have to grind to get anywhere in this game. Am I to believe someone(s) can't make friends and work towards the gear they need?
D&D is a collaborative effort game, it's why we now have guilds. I am over-looking many issues that could make the game great but what game is with out faults... Feeding the bottom line will get some results, slowly. Can you figure out why?
I know this is a game (business) and I have committed time and money to it. The fact its D&D is what keeps me active.
A new mechanic/change to mechanic or character and its abilities, something will be introduced (feeding the bottom line) and this same thread with a differently worded title will be created because... well, read above my post.
.. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
Still here we go: for thouse who weren´t around back then: that event gave us the opportunity to buy rank 7 enchants(normal and multistat, rank 7s were good back then) and the bulette mount( one of the first times, if not the first, where we could gain a purple quality mount by actaully playing[not counting farming AD and buying on ah] for an event currency we could earn by ... not sure anymore if it was winning or just participating in domination PvP matches.
It shouldn´t be to much of a surprise that the number of players doing domination during that event went up by a huge amount...so during that time, I, playing a TR, did 3 or so matches per day and had accidently stumbled upon a build that was performing good for my gear in PvP, the first 6 or so matches were easy wins due to that, by then the game had me correctly evaluated, and out of three matches from then on, one was a long close and enjoyable match resulting in a win, one a close long and enjoyable match resulting in a loss, and one being stomped...then the game forgot everyones records, and I had another few easy games b4 it had me correctly evaluated again=> matchmaking in NW actually works if it has enough ppl to choose from and the ppl have done enough matches between the ...I´ll just them evaluation resets...to be correctly evaluated. Premades...gear, communication and knowledge gaps...exploits...all of that was there back then too of course, but it didn´t prevent the majority of matches being how PvP should be imho.
So...the main problem of PvP is too few participants for the system to work. And imho thats because the rewards are either available elsewhere with a better time/gain/fun ratio(AD, Artefacts, Salvage, RP) or hard win gated in an envoirement that allows a bearable rate of wins only to thouse who already are at the very top(conquerors shards for the Stronghold, Seals of triumph, banners of the fallen).