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sw nerfed again?

lyaiselyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
Ok if there's one on the OP, then there should be the same for SW

Appreciate it's a correction to TC, but they simply don't look at the class performance as a whole, and in comparison to others. Remove a chunk of dps output and the inevitable outcome is a less preferred dps class, it's basic logic.

SW has seemed to be operating on bugs for a while now to keep it up there. Puppet of course, now TC.
What should be happening is a raise of other skills to compensate for this reduction.

It's a correction - But again with the SW, it's a bug hiding deficiencies in other abilities.
Post edited by lyaise on
...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
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..............not this one then.............
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  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    Just been on preview. SW damage is nerfed about 60%. Good job.
    If you want to kill class you're on great way.
    But keep in mind this is DPS CLASS.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

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  • kallephi#0836 kallephi Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    Yeah, I did some tests yesterday and today again with Fernu on preview. We lost around 60% dps. I know we can't call it a nerf because it was not working the way it was intended to, but..that was what make us comparable to other dps classes. We are 1 week away from the patch, so I guess we won't see any good changes in our favor.
    Ly'saaera, Hellbringer Fury Scourge Warlock of Thieves World
    Hælja, Swordmaster Conqueror Guardian Fighter of Thieves World
  • rottersrotters Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    Surely they wont let this go through? Is the love for GWF that great that they cant have any other classes competing?

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  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    Gwfwinter.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    PLS dont kill SW.

    its so sad to see that.
    from mod 9-10 the sws i saw where like, uhh its a nerf but we can find a way to work with that. We will stay strong and make new builds and adapt.
    Now all i see is: HAMSTER that gonna go pvp or delete my char
  • robrobsonrobrobson Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 42 Arc User
    STOP IT! buff others if you feel something is unbalanced
  • kallephi#0836 kallephi Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    Pretty much GWFwinter. As I said in the other topic. Now GWFs can deal double my damage and double damage of every class in this game. It's surely balanced to have a single class dealing the damage of two people.
    When I didnt know about the TC thing, I felt bad to see I was investing my time in my toon, running a dungeon with a very good HR friend and we together dealt the damage of a SINGLE person (GWF). I feel half useful, half useless, you know?

    Anyway. 50-60% dps loss is a HUGE. I'm not crying, I don't care if they change it, after all it's not working as intended, but that was what was making us able to compete with the other classes. It's sad to know that when I ran CN, tiamat or FBI and I had similar damage to another dps class, it was a BUG. So yes, our class without this bug is WEAK.
    Ly'saaera, Hellbringer Fury Scourge Warlock of Thieves World
    Hælja, Swordmaster Conqueror Guardian Fighter of Thieves World
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    No offense, but you are talking about a fix, arent you? A fix for a broken skill. Did SWs doesnt get some buffs in the past? Like immunity? So now the SW is gonna be dead cuzz they fix a buggy skill? Really?

  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    spideymt said:

    No offense, but you are talking about a fix, arent you? A fix for a broken skill. Did SWs doesnt get some buffs in the past? Like immunity? So now the SW is gonna be dead cuzz they fix a buggy skill? Really?

    No, SW will be dead because we will have -60% dps now. You can't fix one skill that make you DPS on DPS class and ignore rest. Either make full rebalance as it was intended before @amenar left or try to think.
    @spideymt how do you imagine being DPS class without DPS?
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
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  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    @spideymt
    this comment again shows that u know nothing about SW
  • flowcytoflowcyto Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 196 Arc User
    I have to feel that part of this problem could be handled by making sure all SWs get at least one decent AoE at-will and at least one decent ST at-will. TC 'fix' shows us the problem of having some strikers lean on dailies or encounters too much versus others that don't (ie. GWF). Ya gotta fill those inevitable gaps between dailies and encounters somehow (unless ur a Trapper that's designed for encounter spam ie. an outlier), and if those tools aren't much/any better than a tank or healer's then there's not much hope of being able to fulfill the 'dps' role.
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  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    @spideymt
    this comment again shows that u know nothing about SW

    So you didnt get immunity? You didnt get any buffs in the past? I was asking. If you cant handle question, dont try to provoke or intimidate me. I guess this thread is to important. For personal messages you know my handle.

    @the other SWs:
    Like i said: No offense, but do you think noone cant play SW anymore cuzz they gonna fix a broken skill? I cant believe this. Yes, you gonna make less DPS, but is it really that much that you cant play SW anymore? Really? I cant believe they gonna destroy a class with this intention. Why should they?

  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    fernuu said:

    spideymt said:

    No offense, but you are talking about a fix, arent you? A fix for a broken skill. Did SWs doesnt get some buffs in the past? Like immunity? So now the SW is gonna be dead cuzz they fix a buggy skill? Really?

    No, SW will be dead because we will have -60% dps now. You can't fix one skill that make you DPS on DPS class and ignore rest. Either make full rebalance as it was intended before @amenar left or try to think.
    @spideymt how do you imagine being DPS class without DPS?
    You mean like Gwfs have been this whole time in pvp? lol =D Id be super happy if I had a dodge.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • kallephi#0836 kallephi Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    @spideymt

    I never said I'd stop playing SW. I'll keep playing, but I know I'll have a hard time being outdpsed by everyone because the skill that made me be COMPARABLE to the other classes was bugged. So, the way they found to make us comparable was a bug, and now they are fixing it without giving us anything in return to compensate for the loss.
    It's 60% dps loss man, trust me. Like, we will do less than half the damage we are dealing now.

    I'll adapt, yes, but I know my class will suck because we don't have other balanced skills.
    Post edited by kallephi#0836 on
    Ly'saaera, Hellbringer Fury Scourge Warlock of Thieves World
    Hælja, Swordmaster Conqueror Guardian Fighter of Thieves World
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    Yeah so how does immunity in a dungeon help if you alrdy cant get dmg due to AA and other stuff?.
    I hope they come out with a fix making Buffs inline with debuffs so they are calculated additive instead of multiplicative. GWF will lose like 80% of his dmg but since its a fix there should be no need to make adjustments right?
  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    spideymt said:

    tom#6998 said:

    @spideymt
    this comment again shows that u know nothing about SW

    So you didnt get immunity? You didnt get any buffs in the past? I was asking. If you cant handle question, dont try to provoke or intimidate me. I guess this thread is to important. For personal messages you know my handle.

    @the other SWs:
    Like i said: No offense, but do you think noone cant play SW anymore cuzz they gonna fix a broken skill? I cant believe this. Yes, you gonna make less DPS, but is it really that much that you cant play SW anymore? Really? I cant believe they gonna destroy a class with this intention. Why should they?
    Because they are stupid. And learn how to use @ or don't use it at all.
    If you're so specialist into anything that anyone had said - please show me ACT log of FBI run with SW/CW/GWF/GForOP/DCorOPheal.

    Ty.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
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    Mod 9:
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  • fernuufernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    spideymt said:

    tom#6998 said:

    @spideymt
    this comment again shows that u know nothing about SW

    So you didnt get immunity? You didnt get any buffs in the past? I was asking. If you cant handle question, dont try to provoke or intimidate me. I guess this thread is to important. For personal messages you know my handle.

    @the other SWs:
    Like i said: No offense, but do you think noone cant play SW anymore cuzz they gonna fix a broken skill? I cant believe this. Yes, you gonna make less DPS, but is it really that much that you cant play SW anymore? Really? I cant believe they gonna destroy a class with this intention. Why should they?
    And if you want full story. We, SWs, were heavily nerfed at mod6. At the same time we had ukmh ukhm, hamster DPS. There were 2-3 bugs that made us competetive with rest of DPS classes. Still, other DPS class(es) could do same damage nearly brainless.

    Now, after fixing majority of sw bugs and trying to rebalance us thanks to @amenar it was fine. But @amenar's rebalance stopped in middle as he left and yeah, devs are hamsterstorming us with another nerf/fix(call it whatever you like) without ANY looking into balance.

    You keep talking about immunity. Other classes had it years ago. Staph it.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • SW drew me to Neverwinter, it's bad enough you badly weakened damnation my favourite build and did nothing to it to make up for it, but now you want to finish it off completely? If this goes through I'm just going to drop SW, and then probably the game. no other class interests me the way SW does and you're KILLING it.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    @fernuu we should just ignore him. every post of him is just provocing, and he has some personal vendetta against me altough we dont even know each other. He never provided any usefull information or backed his claims up with actuall data. Hes just here to harras and provoce ppl.
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    tom#6998 said:

    @fernuu we should just ignore him. every post of him is just provocing, and he has some personal vendetta against me altough we dont even know each other. He never provided any usefull information or backed his claims up with actuall data. Hes just here to harras and provoce ppl.

    Do you see any provoke in my posts in this thread? Quote it or stop saying such things. Im askin because im curious. Thats all. I never said "Yeah...its good they nerf the SWS!!" and i never aplauded for this.

  • lyaiselyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
    People who have actually played the SW on preview have experienced the results of this change, the degree of damage reduction as a result.
    It doesn't take long to see this. A couple of days at best - considerably less if you focus on logging group run outputs.

    An optimistic view would be to hope the development team does the same thing. It's not a great deal of time. Such is the degree of reduction, the results are evidenced immediately.

    I would ask the development team to hold off on this, then introduced in line with adjustments to other abilities to keep the SW somewhere near it's current level. Not asking for more, just a consistency with the SW output.

    I know TC is not operating inline with your original intentions, there is no disagreement on this. But it has been disguising the lower performance of other abilities. Maybe these should have been adjusted some time ago, then the effect of TC would have been headline obvious.

    But it wasn't, because it's used to compensate, rather than overachieve.

    In terms of class support, their is only frustration when players see their character class performance subjected to significant swings.

    You have listened to the player base in regard to the key change. Whilst I don't believe you had much choice with this, it's a positive to see a holding off until a hopefully more reasonable solution is introduced.

    Please continue in this more considered mindset with the SW class. Step back a little and look at the broader class picture, rather than one action that results in a significantly negative effect to the whole.
    ...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
    "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
    ..............not this one then.............
  • nyihahanyihaha Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12 Arc User
    I don't mind if they give SW a complete rework. Bringing HB back into life was a good move. But if they correct this thing, please rework the other areas (encounter powers etc) so that SW still can be viable.
    GF does insane damage and it is a defensive class. Come on, SW is for damage output. I don't mind if cryptic prefer GWF and they want it to be the top, but at least don't render our class inferior to all the others.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    @spideymt
    so your questions (cant quote cause on mobile so ill just gonna write them again down here tell me if i missed one.

    didnt SWs get some buffs in the past:

    yeah we got some buffs BUT those where to compensate the nerfs we got at the same time. Going from mod 9-10 we still ended up with the nerfs having more negativ impact then the buffs where positive.

    Didnt we get immunity:

    What does 1 sec immunity give us in terms of dps? I can tell u its 0.

    Yes u gonna make less dps, but is it really that much that u cant play sw anymore?

    Its not that u cant play it anymore (the play button wont disapear) its just that the class will suck at dps. I did some runs on preview yesterday and my dps on Bosses went down by about 70%. We had a full buff group (acdc dodc mofrene tactgf. All good players and nearly BIS) and my hits on KF and Arms went down from 6-10 mio to 1-2 mio. Run a gwf in the same group with equal gear he would hit 10mio+ with IBS. DPS cw in this group instead of my SW would still kill the boss twice as fast if not faster. So yeah if u want to be a pure dps class u cant play sw anymore.

    And as it stands the buff capabilities are bad aswell. Who will take a templock when the only thing he offers is a lousy 5k power share (with rank12 bondings share alrdy in)


    Cant believe they will destroy a class why should they?

    Cause they dont know what impact the change will have (amenar is gone so the new balance dev might not have had the time to really understand all classes to the fullest) or cause they follow their overall aproach to fix/nerf smth. Then watch a mod whats happening and then maybe make adjustments.

    So any questions i missed?

    Greetings
    Natsu/tom
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    You know what a huge advantage it is to be immun for 1 secound ( for example FBI).
    Anyway, thanks for your answers.


  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    A DPS class loses dps, a tank class loses tanking. Perhaps they are preparing the field for the next class/
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  • terrasight#2000 terrasight Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    "not working as intended" ...so what? Then make it "working as intended", whats the problem? Change the tooltip and all is fine. TC is not overpowered anymore after the last nerf.

    After all the nerfs leave it how it is... that is no "fix", that is ruining a class.

    If I've to be 1000 GS over a GWF to be equal or near by... thats no fix...it's a shame of dev...
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I also checked on preview.
    Actual fury build will be the actual temptationlock in dps :(
    Every half talented GWF, CW, Hunter, TR with a PVE dps build will beat any worlock with ease and significatly.
    The "TT bug" could let us stay competetive to some degree.
    Only way to compansate this is a fix is to lift weapon damage significantly, wich will lead to very huge basadamage, or find another way to selfbuff the class. Like GWF who can lift his damageoutput >x6 by stacking selfbuffs (once I did the math in mod 7 or 8).
    A 3k Sure strike becomes a 100k Sure strike buffed.
    We don´t need anything like that, only a minor buff to compansate 40-60% damageloss....and it has to be a stable buff wich is tied to the core mechanic, so either lift effectivness of WC and TT from 20% up to 100% again or do a complete rework, WC should be permanent (like lasting for 20 sec) and not be able to consume.
    Otherwise this class loses it´s basis of existance ---> pure dps without dps= lol

    In advance ! I don´t want a nerf to any other class, but please do not interfere in this threat and stop discussions having no knowledge about this class. Just step outside and let it be, it doesn´t look very smart argueing against something that is so obvious like the upcoming change.
  • uzalauzala Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    spideymt said:

    You know what a huge advantage it is to be immun for 1 secound ( for example FBI).
    Anyway, thanks for your answers.

    Doesn't all classes have 1s immunity after shifting? I know as a CW that once I shift, I have 1 sec of immunity. I am pretty sure HR's got it, not sure about the tanks though.

  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    Gwfwinter.
    emilemo said:

    A DPS class loses dps, a tank class loses tanking. Perhaps they are preparing the field for the next class/

    They will keep doing that until gwf can out tank ops and gfs and outdps the rest dd classes together by x20 times, gwfwinter. While they are at it they could make the gwf the best healer and buffer as well with some feat and power changes. Gwfwinter.
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