ok, pero , nerf all class, but gfw, untouchable. We do not want be conducted in dgs We want to be useful. If that happen. Reason to sw In pt?
The GWF isn't untouchable, it is actually one of the classes that have received several fix/nerfs/buffs during their existance. If the devs haven't touched the class yet is simply because the damage done by the class isn't granted by a bug, which is a good thing, that means that they will only have to do minor tweaks in order to reduce their damage output if needed. Regarding to the SW, first it is important to make sure that there aren't more bugs and that every power/feat/encounter, etc is working as intended. Then they just have to do so small adjustments in order to balance every class appropriately. As I mentioned before, the real problem is the really long time that they take between each adjustment.
Totally agree @lazaroth666 They should fix bugs AND adjust at same time, even if partially and then just moderate it in one way or another, giving +/-% isn't stuff that take months. Now they will leave pure dps class hamstered hard for at least 2-3 months.
ok, pero , nerf all class, but gfw, untouchable. We do not want be conducted in dgs We want to be useful. If that happen. Reason to sw In pt?
The GWF isn't untouchable, it is actually one of the classes that have received several fix/nerfs/buffs during their existance. If the devs haven't touched the class yet is simply because the damage done by the class isn't granted by a bug, which is a good thing, that means that they will only have to do minor tweaks in order to reduce their damage output if needed. Regarding to the SW, first it is important to make sure that there aren't more bugs and that every power/feat/encounter, etc is working as intended. Then they just have to do so small adjustments in order to balance every class appropriately. As I mentioned before, the real problem is the really long time that they take between each adjustment.
I do not agree We have not seen changes in gwf as we have seen in other classes To say that a GWF is not buggy is the same as a GWF without IBS. I see gwf 3.2 gain in dps several 4k + classes, one sw 4k+ is bugged and needs nerf, what shall we say of gwf 3.2?
Totally agree @lazaroth666 They should fix bugs AND adjust at same time, even if partially and then just moderate it in one way or another, giving +/-% isn't stuff that take months. Now they will leave pure dps class hamstered hard for at least 2-3 months.
I say again, delete the class, create an item to exchange class items and after that, delete the class in creation. If after this reduction are incompetent to solve the problem delete the class. will be useless, I prefer to change class, but do not admit having to do it again, they organizing to change the class
Totally agree @lazaroth666 They should fix bugs AND adjust at same time, even if partially and then just moderate it in one way or another, giving +/-% isn't stuff that take months. Now they will leave pure dps class hamstered hard for at least 2-3 months.
I say again, delete the class, create an item to exchange class items and after that, delete the class in creation. If after this reduction are incompetent to solve the problem delete the class. will be useless, I prefer to change class, but do not admit having to do it again, they organizing to change the class
Well, you can also delete an account. Same result.
I see gwf 3.2 gain in dps several 4k + classes, one sw 4k+ is bugged and needs nerf, what shall we say of gwf 3.2?
You tell me. What shall we say about a 3,2k GWF that makes the same dps as a 4k+ SW? I dont know which Grp konstellation, which dungeon, which boss etc. You cant only say general " a 3,2 k char never can make more dps than a 4k+ char". We need more informations and all circumstances.
And why is this fight vs GWFs still going on, if this thread is about SW? Do you want a rework for that fix or do you wanna nerf GWFs? I still dont understand it. We as a community can fight together if we all gonna unite. But check this thread. Instead of trying to unite and try to make the the devs take a deep look into it and maybe a good rework, still fighting. Thats not helpfull. Not at all.
I see gwf 3.2 gain in dps several 4k + classes, one sw 4k+ is bugged and needs nerf, what shall we say of gwf 3.2?
You tell me. What shall we say about a 3,2k GWF that makes the same dps as a 4k+ SW? I dont know which Grp konstellation, which dungeon, which boss etc. You cant only say general " a 3,2 k char never can make more dps than a 4k+ char". We need more informations and all circumstances.
And why is this fight vs GWFs still going on, if this thread is about SW? Do you want a rework for that fix or do you wanna nerf GWFs? I still dont understand it. We as a community can fight together if we all gonna unite. But check this thread. Instead of trying to unite and try to make the the devs take a deep look into it and maybe a good rework, still fighting. Thats not helpfull. Not at all.
If you do not know what is ibs (Idomitable Batlle Strike) is difficult to discuss all rest. ^^
Totally agree @lazaroth666 They should fix bugs AND adjust at same time, even if partially and then just moderate it in one way or another, giving +/-% isn't stuff that take months. Now they will leave pure dps class hamstered hard for at least 2-3 months.
I say again, delete the class, create an item to exchange class items and after that, delete the class in creation. If after this reduction are incompetent to solve the problem delete the class. will be useless, I prefer to change class, but do not admit having to do it again, they organizing to change the class
Well, you can also delete an account. Same result.
not before court to get my money spent. configure bad faith public continuum ... hehe
As an OPP I feel your pain SW but they are not done yet, and I think every class will feel the nerf hammer before this is finished, the whole point of this is to eliminate easy mode and the trivialization of endgame content, I also think videos on other websites of people soloing dungeons has also caused a lot of these changes. Nobody no matter what build should be able one shot bosses either, something had to be done to right the ship before power creep and immortality sunk it.
@fernuu impossible and that is exactly the result what they wanted, itf was a large part of one shotting, imo lifesteal rework might be next after they are done with the class reworks because survivability of classes is too high hence the OPP nerf and I also think they are trying to make healer classes more necessary in end game content, and absolutely with out a doubt other classes (whom will remain unnamed) because I have never been an advocate of nerfing any class will feel the "rework" soon.
Gwfs are one fbi solo video away from a nerf. It sucks that this is happening to sws. I have a few friends that are great at the class. We are given these classes. We test them. We use them to their full potential. Then we're called bug users or exploiters. Nw devs dont seem to know how to make a game challenging beyond making everyone weaker. Other games run into the same problem but it doesnt ruin their games. Why? mechanics! If your entire game revolves around go here kill this, then of course it'll become easy when everyone gets more powerful. How about making teamwork matter? I dont mean people buffing each other into a god mode. Im saying add puzzles. Add things that are time related (not like pom though). Make it so that regardless of item level, bad teamwork will cause you to fail. Play a destiny raid if you need a better example. Its to the point with this game that im just wondering what will be taken away next. Thats the news Im checking for and its sad.
Ok ...i get it: Most of the posts are not helpfull to get a rework for SWs...most of them are only "Nerf GWFs!". Thats sad and i changed my mind now. You dont need the support from the community. This thread is to much "Nerf GWFS!". So i gonna leave.
so i thought about some of tge problems that cause the SW the relie on TC that much and i could identify 2 things.
For one its the low base dmg our spells have. Really isnt great if FB is only hitting 100k krit when i have about 140k power in group.
second problem is with the design of the game. We SWs have loads of debuffs and few selfbuffs. The fact that debuffs are added aditive and not multiplicative hurts us a lot. This makes it so that every debuff we add on top is less effektiv. e.g. feat helltouched: if an enemy hits us ge gets helltouched which causes him to recieve 10% more dmg from us. So when we alrdy are at 200% effektivnes cause off other debuffs arround (like op dc mof) this 10% debuff only boosts our dps by 5 % (200+10=210, then 210\200 = 1,05 so an 5% dmg increase while a buff would be 200*1,10 = 220% effektivnes).
Possible solutions: -Change debuffs to work like buffs (multiplicative) -Increase our Base encounter dmg -give us some good selfbuff abilities or feats
Ok ...i get it: Most of the posts are not helpfull to get a rework for SWs...most of them are only "Nerf GWFs!". Thats sad and i changed my mind now. You dont need the support from the community. This thread is to much "Nerf GWFS!". So i gonna leave.
I'm the creator of this thread, set up to debate the coming alteration to the SW.
I did include a line about comparison with others - but that was simply to remind the development team of what should be happening: Class balancing. That's not against any particular class, but as a complete picture, which is how it should be done.
My original request which I'll copy in - "What should be happening is a raise of other skills to compensate for this reduction." - is the aim of the post.
I'd make a request to all. Can we please direct our thoughts to the SW and not pick on another individual class.
For the SW - as I've said, what I suggest is a holding off of the upcoming adjustment until other abilities have been improved to compensate. Then introduce these in line with the TC fix.
Done correctly this would maintain SW continuity, rather than just a hit without looking at the broader consequences to the class.
SW comments please guys.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
They can nerf that daily, I am ok with not being dependant to one daily any more, but they should buff something else, maybe give warlock a selfbuff.
1. like other classes got, stacking by dealing damage, maybe change a feat like critical promise in the fury tree obtainable for the other trees. 2. Or buff WC/TC up to a fix ammount wich again leads to an abusive use of this one particular daily...already got that for years.
I think a stacking selfbuff would be better than pimping our weapondamage that much...maybe to much burst. My GWF hits like a noodle unbuffed but at full buffs things melt, needs about 3-4 seconds to get weapon mastery , destroyer and capstone to full potential.
This would require TT doing well over 60% of your damage. If you are including Owlbear with your argument, that would be just as invalid - it boosted the dps enormously for a small number of people who knew about it AND several classes are able to take advantage of it (almost as much as SWs could). I mean, how can people take you seriously with this?
Fact is, the combination of these changes mean there won't be a few SWs, HRs, CWs (and lesser extent TRs) doing a ton of damage more than everyone else and we'll all now be around the same level looking up at the GWFs. I think there's a valid argument for toning down GWFs now that these changes are coming, but that's not what a FEW SWs here are concerned about.
This would require TT doing well over 60% of your damage. If you are including Owlbear with your argument, that would be just as invalid - it boosted the dps enormously for a small number of people who knew about it AND several classes are able to take advantage of it (almost as much as SWs could). I mean, how can people take you seriously with this?
Fact is, the combination of these changes mean there won't be a few SWs, HRs, CWs (and lesser extent TRs) doing a ton of damage more than everyone else and we'll all now be around the same level looking up at the GWFs. I think there's a valid argument for toning down GWFs now that these changes are coming, but that's not what a FEW SWs here are concerned about.
Man. TC includes AA, PoP, HG, everything. So in the long run, yes, it is 50-60%. Read below...
This fix to TC means my Killing Flames is not hitting for 1.5M anymore, it's hitting for 500k. ALL our damaging skills against a target afflicted by TC is going to be lowered, you understand? The damage doesn't go only to TC, it goes to other skills. It's increasing the damage you deal against the target for way more than 20%, do you understand? That's what they are fixing, the scaling damage from TC (more than 20%) It's like it's increasing the damage against the target by 100% or more. I'ts not about TC damage on the other targets. It's increasing damage against the target of TC, so even if you use it against Orcus, you gain way more damage. Fight Orcus using TC and without TC and check the difference. This fix LOWERS ALL OUR DAMAGE, and in the end it's a 50-60% dps loss. And this way TC is working is what is making us comparable to the other classes.
I lost 60% dps comparing preview to live. I dont know if you have a SW and if your SW is capble of doing massive dps, but if he is capable of it, trust me, it's not a 10 or 20% dps loss. I can show you my dps now before tomorrow and then show you tomorrow.
I'm not concerned about the "nerf". I'm concerned that we lost a lot of dps and we are not being comparable to the other classes anymore, so they should give us some balance on the other skills, otherwise we will have a hard time to be comparable to the other classes. I did the tests with Fernu. I'm not saying he's the best SW around but he's "famous" and he creates a lot of builds here. all SWs in the game know him. So if I tested with him using my ACT and his ACT and he says it is 50-60% dps/effectivess, you should trust.
I don't do way more damage than the other classes, only when they suck. A good HR, CW, does the same dps as I do. But if the person sucks, yes, I deal way more damage than him/her.
If you have a decent SW, send me a tell in the game so we can go to preview.
Post edited by kallephi#0836 on
Ly'saaera, Hellbringer Fury Scourge Warlock of Thieves World Hælja, Swordmaster Conqueror Guardian Fighter of Thieves World
SW is dead....and from what I see on ps4(which has a large number of SW players), most will be leaving the game. Nobody wants to be left out of endgame dungeons after all the time/money spent on their characters
This is happening with multiple classes, people are not willing to class hop between nerfs and are leaving the game in droves. SW and OP's have been made second class citizens now......this was and is not a class balance! The GF and HR got a proper class balance. This was nothing but a nerf fest to generate more cash in the hopes that people would buy pre made 70's and hop to the new Fotm......
SW is dead....and from what I see on ps4(which has a large number of SW players), most will be leaving the game. Nobody wants to be left out of endgame dungeons after all the time/money spent on their characters
Comments
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
We have not seen changes in gwf as we have seen in other classes
To say that a GWF is not buggy is the same as a GWF without IBS.
I see gwf 3.2 gain in dps several 4k + classes, one sw 4k+ is bugged and needs nerf, what shall we say of gwf 3.2?
I say again, delete the class, create an item to exchange class items and after that, delete the class in creation.
If after this reduction are incompetent to solve the problem delete the class.
will be useless, I prefer to change class, but do not admit having to do it again, they organizing to change the class
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
And why is this fight vs GWFs still going on, if this thread is about SW? Do you want a rework for that fix or do you wanna nerf GWFs? I still dont understand it. We as a community can fight together if we all gonna unite. But check this thread. Instead of trying to unite and try to make the the devs take a deep look into it and maybe a good rework, still fighting. Thats not helpfull. Not at all.
If you do not know what is ibs (Idomitable Batlle Strike) is difficult to discuss all rest. ^^
Mod 10:
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.
Mod 9:
[Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
Most of the posts are not helpfull to get a rework for SWs...most of them are only "Nerf GWFs!". Thats sad and i changed my mind now. You dont need the support from the community. This thread is to much "Nerf GWFS!". So i gonna leave.
so i thought about some of tge problems that cause the SW the relie on TC that much and i could identify 2 things.
For one its the low base dmg our spells have. Really isnt great if FB is only hitting 100k krit when i have about 140k power in group.
second problem is with the design of the game. We SWs have loads of debuffs and few selfbuffs. The fact that debuffs are added aditive and not multiplicative hurts us a lot. This makes it so that every debuff we add on top is less effektiv. e.g. feat helltouched: if an enemy hits us ge gets helltouched which causes him to recieve 10% more dmg from us. So when we alrdy are at 200% effektivnes cause off other debuffs arround (like op dc mof) this 10% debuff only boosts our dps by 5 % (200+10=210, then 210\200 = 1,05 so an 5% dmg increase while a buff would be 200*1,10 = 220% effektivnes).
Possible solutions:
-Change debuffs to work like buffs (multiplicative)
-Increase our Base encounter dmg
-give us some good selfbuff abilities or feats
PS: can we finaly stop the gwf bashing pls
@asterdahl any thougts on this?
Greetings
Natsu/Tom
I did include a line about comparison with others - but that was simply to remind the development team of what should be happening: Class balancing.
That's not against any particular class, but as a complete picture, which is how it should be done.
My original request which I'll copy in - "What should be happening is a raise of other skills to compensate for this reduction." - is the aim of the post.
I'd make a request to all. Can we please direct our thoughts to the SW and not pick on another individual class.
For the SW - as I've said, what I suggest is a holding off of the upcoming adjustment until other abilities have been improved to compensate. Then introduce these in line with the TC fix.
Done correctly this would maintain SW continuity, rather than just a hit without looking at the broader consequences to the class.
SW comments please guys.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
1. like other classes got, stacking by dealing damage, maybe change a feat like critical promise in the fury tree obtainable for the other trees.
2. Or buff WC/TC up to a fix ammount wich again leads to an abusive use of this one particular daily...already got that for years.
I think a stacking selfbuff would be better than pimping our weapondamage that much...maybe to much burst.
My GWF hits like a noodle unbuffed but at full buffs things melt, needs about 3-4 seconds to get weapon mastery , destroyer and capstone to full potential.
Fact is, the combination of these changes mean there won't be a few SWs, HRs, CWs (and lesser extent TRs) doing a ton of damage more than everyone else and we'll all now be around the same level looking up at the GWFs. I think there's a valid argument for toning down GWFs now that these changes are coming, but that's not what a FEW SWs here are concerned about.
This fix to TC means my Killing Flames is not hitting for 1.5M anymore, it's hitting for 500k. ALL our damaging skills against a target afflicted by TC is going to be lowered, you understand? The damage doesn't go only to TC, it goes to other skills. It's increasing the damage you deal against the target for way more than 20%, do you understand? That's what they are fixing, the scaling damage from TC (more than 20%) It's like it's increasing the damage against the target by 100% or more. I'ts not about TC damage on the other targets. It's increasing damage against the target of TC, so even if you use it against Orcus, you gain way more damage. Fight Orcus using TC and without TC and check the difference.
This fix LOWERS ALL OUR DAMAGE, and in the end it's a 50-60% dps loss.
And this way TC is working is what is making us comparable to the other classes.
I lost 60% dps comparing preview to live.
I dont know if you have a SW and if your SW is capble of doing massive dps, but if he is capable of it, trust me, it's not a 10 or 20% dps loss.
I can show you my dps now before tomorrow and then show you tomorrow.
I'm not concerned about the "nerf". I'm concerned that we lost a lot of dps and we are not being comparable to the other classes anymore, so they should give us some balance on the other skills, otherwise we will have a hard time to be comparable to the other classes.
I did the tests with Fernu. I'm not saying he's the best SW around but he's "famous" and he creates a lot of builds here. all SWs in the game know him. So if I tested with him using my ACT and his ACT and he says it is 50-60% dps/effectivess, you should trust.
I don't do way more damage than the other classes, only when they suck. A good HR, CW, does the same dps as I do. But if the person sucks, yes, I deal way more damage than him/her.
If you have a decent SW, send me a tell in the game so we can go to preview.
Hælja, Swordmaster Conqueror Guardian Fighter of Thieves World