VIP per diem

blorkvonlubb · October 2016

Hey all. I'm going out of town for a few days next week. Does anyone know if my VIP per diems will continue accruing so that I can pick them all up when i get back? Or will I lose them if I don't collect each day?

Thanks

rickcase276 · October 2016

You will lose them if you do not pick them up each day.

blorkvonlubb · October 2016

Thanks for the info. That's a dumb system. I'm not getting what I paid for. I'm going to need to travel fairly regularly for the next few months so if that's the case I won't be renewing my VIP

xxmantaraxx · October 2016

It is a dumb system. It treally should be that it uses a day of vip when you log in. Not just keep burning down the timer. I travel alot for work but I take my X-51 with me everywhere. It can be a pain in the HAMSTER to take a gaming pc and monitor with me but I got used to it. Even with that though I miss about 3-5 keys a months just from being on the road/in the air for 20 hours.

zebular · October 2016

Think of it like a Subscription for an MMO. You cannot pause the subscription just because you are unable to play at certain periods of time during your billing cycle. I am sure that if one were prone to traveling, one would not pay in advance for X-Months of Subscription knowing they'd only be able to play for a few of those months. The same logic would apply here, where one has the option to pay for only a month at a time.

shadowskysun · October 2016

They could at the very least let us reclaim any daily lockbox keys we have missed during our ViP time through the Rewards Claims Agent in PE.
The data about collected daily lockbox keys is allready there, all they would have to do is let a script run through the log once a week, and then either send the missed keys with the mail, or place them at the NPC in PE.

Besides, this little QoL change might also encourage more players to go ViP...

blorkvonlubb · October 2016

zebular said:
Think of it like a Subscription for an MMO. You cannot pause the subscription just because you are unable to play at certain periods of time during your billing cycle. I am sure that if one were prone to traveling, one would not pay in advance for X-Months of Subscription knowing they'd only be able to play for a few of those months. The same logic would apply here, where one has the option to pay for only a month at a time.

That's not a good analogy at all. The MMO subscription is for access over a given period of time. Rather than providing access to the game, VIP subscription gives you 30 daily rewards. Basically, 30 lockbox keys, as well as bonus XP, AD etc earned in the game. Nowhere in the VIP description does it stipulate that you lose unclaimed per diem rewards. Finding out that you can't claim the rewards because you are unable to log in just makes your paying customer feel cheated.

That's fine, it's not the end of the world. I just won't do business with them any more.

zebular · October 2016

blorkvonlubb said:

zebular said:
Think of it like a Subscription for an MMO. You cannot pause the subscription just because you are unable to play at certain periods of time during your billing cycle. I am sure that if one were prone to traveling, one would not pay in advance for X-Months of Subscription knowing they'd only be able to play for a few of those months. The same logic would apply here, where one has the option to pay for only a month at a time.
That's not a good analogy at all. The MMO subscription is for access over a given period of time. Rather than providing access to the game, VIP subscription gives you 30 daily rewards. Basically, 30 lockbox keys, as well as bonus XP, AD etc earned in the game. Nowhere in the VIP description does it stipulate that you lose unclaimed per diem rewards. Finding out that you can't claim the rewards because you are unable to log in just makes your paying customer feel cheated.

That's fine, it's not the end of the world. I just won't do business with them any more.

No, the analogy fits for you're gaining access to perks during that set period of time. The very nature of the term, "per diem" is telling as it directly means "per each day." It is an ancient latin term and in business and employment, you do not gain a "per diem" on a day that you do not use it... that's like saying to your employer that you want your per diem mileage on a day you didn't drive anywhere... They're daily login rewards, meaning log in and claim it once per each day, "per diem." Twisting the meaning around to suit the argument that you're being "cheated" is quite perplexing.

ecrana · October 2016

I see these posts pop up from time to time and I just can't recall ever being perplexed by the fact that you don't get your key if you don't log-in. I am almost positive it states somewhere that it is a daily key that you must log-in daily for. Maybe not in the purchasing screen but possibly in the VIP Benefits screen that breaks down each rank.

Unknown · October 2016

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sandukutupu · October 2016

I have seen this debate before. Basically it boils down something like this;

"Hello?"
"My cable has been out for the last 24 hours. Since your company charges me $60 a month, can I get a $2 reduction on my bill?"
"No." *click*

I never have bought into the VIP or lock boxes. Gambling will bite you in the end. Caveat Emptor!

plasticbat · October 2016

sandukutupu said:
I have seen this debate before. Basically it boils down something like this;

"Hello?"
"My cable has been out for the last 24 hours. Since your company charges me $60 a month, can I get a $2 reduction on my bill?"
"No." *click*

I never have bought into the VIP or lock boxes. Gambling will bite you in the end. Caveat Emptor!

Not a good example in my opinion because over here, if you ask, you actually can get that $2 back.

oldbaldyone · October 2016

plasticbat said:

sandukutupu said:
I have seen this debate before. Basically it boils down something like this;

"Hello?"
"My cable has been out for the last 24 hours. Since your company charges me $60 a month, can I get a $2 reduction on my bill?"
"No." *click*

I never have bought into the VIP or lock boxes. Gambling will bite you in the end. Caveat Emptor!
Not a good example in my opinion because over here, if you ask, you actually can get that $2 back.

Even Comcast, the world's worst in terms of customer service, would refund you something if it was their fault. So terrible example and completely irrelevant.

Subscriptions are priced in a way that they EXPECT you to not fully utilize it. If you can't utilize the benefits, that is your fault.

FYI - I use Teamviewer and a PC that stays on 24/7. With a decent enough connection, you can remote in to a PC even from a Smartphone and grab the key (it isnt easy, but you can do it). You could also use a hotel PC or something to do it.

dread4moor · October 2016

@blorkvonlubb

I'm a big consumer advocate but must side with Cryptic and the moderator on this one.

[Pauses to cringe in pain.]

If all you want is a stack of keys, much cheaper to just buy the keys.

No one using VIP should expect a refund if you simply don't play every day.

Consider paying month to month.

plasticbat · October 2016

dread4moor said:

If all you want is a stack of keys, much cheaper to just buy the keys.

No, it is not. 10 enchanted key without discount is 1125 Zen. One month VIP without discount is 1000 Zen which gives you at least 28 keys (for February). Even if you can't pick up the keys for half of a month (for whatever reason), it is still a better deal.

jamesbond007 · October 2016

plasticbat said:

dread4moor said:

If all you want is a stack of keys, much cheaper to just buy the keys.

No, it is not. 10 enchanted key without discount is 1125 Zen. One month VIP without discount is 1000 Zen which gives you at least 28 keys (for February). Even if you can't pick up the keys for half of a month (for whatever reason), it is still a better deal.

ye its well worth it for the people that can collect 1 key a day most times in a 1 year calendar. Pays for the VIP itself and the renewing cost.

tripsofthrymr · October 2016

oldbaldyone said:

FYI - I use Teamviewer and a PC that stays on 24/7. With a decent enough connection, you can remote in to a PC even from a Smartphone and grab the key (it isnt easy, but you can do it). You could also use a hotel PC or something to do it.

I would be very careful about using a hotel PC for anything involving a password. It's super easy for someone to install spyware. I wouldn't trust a random hotel to have solid, up-to-date anti-virus. The goal of the spyware would most likely be to get your banking login or your email login (think "reset all your passwords for everything") but if they stumble on to your game account login, they'll find a buyer for it.

Teamviewer is a great idea.

Unknown · October 2016

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nameexpired · October 2016

plasticbat said:

sandukutupu said:
I have seen this debate before. Basically it boils down something like this;

"Hello?"
"My cable has been out for the last 24 hours. Since your company charges me $60 a month, can I get a $2 reduction on my bill?"
"No." *click*

I never have bought into the VIP or lock boxes. Gambling will bite you in the end. Caveat Emptor!
Not a good example in my opinion because over here, if you ask, you actually can get that $2 back.

It is not a good example as you call and say "I was not at home the last 24 hours. please refund the 2$".
The difference is that in the example first mentioned it was the company's fault that Sand could not use the cable, in my example it was Sand's decision to not use the cable. Makes a huge difference.

mystocles · October 2016

It's a system designed to force people to login, it's used in lots of mmos as a way to help artficially increase your concurrent user numbers because people will often log on each day even if they don't play just to get the reward you offer. Then you can go out and say you have 100 trillion concurrent users and people will be like OMG OMG what a popular game I need to buy into this as well... It isn't usually a system you pay into though... that part of it is kinda sleasy IMO.

dread4moor · October 2016

@plasticbat
"Even if you can't pick up the keys for half of a month (for whatever reason), it is still a better deal."

I stand corrected on key cost. Although the time and effort of logging on and collecting the key at least 15 separate days/month is also a cost.

But that only further supports the argument.

1) VIP is at a bargain price.

2) Subscriptions do not give refunds.

OP wants a refund for a bargain price subscription.

Nope.

beckylunatic · October 2016

If you bought a year's worth of VIP during a half-off sale, but occasionally won't be logging in, it was probably still substantially cheaper than buying month-to-month just because you can't stand the idea of having VIP go to waste while you're away. Be sensible about it.

throsbi · October 2016

I would love for the phone company to refund me for all the days my internet was down or my home phone did not have service. I have enough of a hard time getting the power company to correct my billing even when I have to take pics of my meter numbers to prove the reader is simply guessing and getting my power consumption wrong. 3 months way off and one of them had more power consumption than I use in an entire year........

Back to subject at hand, go pay for a monthly sub game for a year than ask for a refund for the 3 months you could not log in becuase you travel at work and can not log in.

Almost every free to play MMO has some sort of system to get players to log in daily. As someone mentioned its a system designed to make the game look like it has a large amount of regular players and the players do get a carrot on a stick reward for doing so. If all them just stacked up the rewards until next log in my hard drive would be full of other games still. justsayin

tripsofthrymr · October 2016

mystocles said:
It's a system designed to force people to login

I agree.

mystocles said:
a way to help artficially increase your concurrent user numbers because people will often log on each day even if they don't play just to get the reward you offer. Then you can go out and say you have 100 trillion concurrent users and people will be like OMG OMG what a popular game I need to buy into this as well...

I disagree. I don't think artificially inflated concurrent user numbers matter much to the bottom line. My guess is it's more about player engagement. If you log in every day for a key, there's a chance you'll chat with your friends, help them run content, actively do stuff with the game. Players that interact with the game daily are far less likely to wander off to other games.

sm0ld3r · October 2016

dread4moor said:
@plasticbat

"Even if you can't pick up the keys for half of a month (for whatever reason), it is still a better deal."

I stand corrected on key cost. Although the time and effort of logging on and collecting the key at least 15 separate days/month is also a cost.

But that only further supports the argument.

1) VIP is at a bargain price.

2) Subscriptions do not give refunds.

OP wants a refund for a bargain price subscription.

Nope.

That's not true at all. The OP didn't ask for a refund. The OP wanted to know if he can claim his back dated unclaimed keys.

Compare it to a newspaper subscription. You get a new one delivered each day and if you go on vacation and don't freeze delivery (which they do allow), when you get home you can grab all the weeks papers.

So the question is, if VIP grants a daily award and you are indisposed on a given day or 2, why can't you grab it the day after?

oldbaldyone · October 2016

sm0ld3r said:

dread4moor said:
@plasticbat

"Even if you can't pick up the keys for half of a month (for whatever reason), it is still a better deal."

I stand corrected on key cost. Although the time and effort of logging on and collecting the key at least 15 separate days/month is also a cost.

But that only further supports the argument.

1) VIP is at a bargain price.

2) Subscriptions do not give refunds.

OP wants a refund for a bargain price subscription.

Nope.
That's not true at all. The OP didn't ask for a refund. The OP wanted to know if he can claim his back dated unclaimed keys.

Compare it to a newspaper subscription. You get a new one delivered each day and if you go on vacation and don't freeze delivery (which they do allow), when you get home you can grab all the weeks papers.

So the question is, if VIP grants a daily award and you are indisposed on a given day or 2, why can't you grab it the day after?

Because they clearly said that if you don't login to collect, you lose out. It is no a matter of "can they make it do this" cause they absolutely could delivery a key via in game mail and be done with it. They made the choice to have you log in to the game to get it and made that perfectly clear up front.

Comcast could just as easily say "We are only going to charge you for the number of minutes you are actually watching TV per month". They can do it, but they don't and they likely never will.

This is not an issue of being technically possible - it is perfectly possible for them to deliver your backdated keys. They don't want to and they made it clear they wouldn't. No bait and switch or any other legal jargon you want to throw at them.

If you want to discuss whether it "SHOULD" be this way, you may wish to reword the topic.

g0rd0nbennet · October 2016

blorkvonlubb said:

zebular said:
Think of it like a Subscription for an MMO. You cannot pause the subscription just because you are unable to play at certain periods of time during your billing cycle. I am sure that if one were prone to traveling, one would not pay in advance for X-Months of Subscription knowing they'd only be able to play for a few of those months. The same logic would apply here, where one has the option to pay for only a month at a time.
That's not a good analogy at all. The MMO subscription is for access over a given period of time. Rather than providing access to the game, VIP subscription gives you 30 daily rewards. Basically, 30 lockbox keys, as well as bonus XP, AD etc earned in the game. Nowhere in the VIP description does it stipulate that you lose unclaimed per diem rewards. Finding out that you can't claim the rewards because you are unable to log in just makes your paying customer feel cheated.

That's fine, it's not the end of the world. I just won't do business with them any more.

I can think of other issues that annoy me far more than loosing a few lockbox keys. I read before I signed up that unclaimed per diem rewards would be lost. It says so quite clearly in the VIP section of your inventory so its not exactly hidden. Warcraft / Sky you name it if you pay monthly for it and don't use it you loose it. The same applies here. The analogy seems sound and reasonable enough. Actually the ability to dive in and out with no contracts / hassle / loss of rewards when re-joining seems to me to be one of the better aspects of the game. If you want 30 lockbox keys then buy the chests of lockbox keys, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

mystocles · October 2016

tripsofthrymr said:

mystocles said:
It's a system designed to force people to login
I agree.
mystocles said:
a way to help artficially increase your concurrent user numbers because people will often log on each day even if they don't play just to get the reward you offer. Then you can go out and say you have 100 trillion concurrent users and people will be like OMG OMG what a popular game I need to buy into this as well...
I disagree. I don't think artificially inflated concurrent user numbers matter much to the bottom line. My guess is it's more about player engagement. If you log in every day for a key, there's a chance you'll chat with your friends, help them run content, actively do stuff with the game. Players that interact with the game daily are far less likely to wander off to other games.

Yea i suppose that could be true as well.

sandukutupu · October 2016

I am sorry if I fail to understand the issue about VIP. As I said, I don't VIP. Not just because of the gambling issues, not because it makes someone log in daily to pick up a reward. It seems to be "pay to cheat" with rank 7 members immune to injury. Injuries don't matter to me, but to give a real example;

I was in Cragmire just yesterday and I told the party; "Keep to the left in hallways to avoid most traps in here."
I was then told, "I am VIP we don't get injured." Fine, but what about the new level 20 running with us? I personally can afford a lot more injury kits than they can. Injuries effect new players more and VIP is geared to appeal to them in many ways.

I really don't have any issue with VIP or people using VIP. If players wish to deprive themselves of the challenge and purpose of playing any game, that is their decision to make. Many declare the game is too grindy, but again they are grinding to what end? Players like myself need purpose, my purpose is to have fun. Which I do without the need to grind out AD, RP, or the latest armor set. I still get those things, I just feel better about the way I did it.

What I was getting at in my last post about the cable bill... many of you missed the point completely. Cryptic won't change their games to suit your needs, paid or free, they change the rules to suit their needs. They have the right to make money, there wouldn't be a game, if they didn't. You play by their rules and they are not about to change them anytime soon.

hfleet · October 2016

It is also possible to have a trusted friend log in and grab the key for you each day you are away.
You can even change your password after if the trust is only at a medium level...

Risk vs Reward

sm0ld3r · October 2016

oldbaldyone said:

sm0ld3r said:

dread4moor said:
@plasticbat

"Even if you can't pick up the keys for half of a month (for whatever reason), it is still a better deal."

I stand corrected on key cost. Although the time and effort of logging on and collecting the key at least 15 separate days/month is also a cost.

But that only further supports the argument.

1) VIP is at a bargain price.

2) Subscriptions do not give refunds.

OP wants a refund for a bargain price subscription.

Nope.
That's not true at all. The OP didn't ask for a refund. The OP wanted to know if he can claim his back dated unclaimed keys.

Compare it to a newspaper subscription. You get a new one delivered each day and if you go on vacation and don't freeze delivery (which they do allow), when you get home you can grab all the weeks papers.

So the question is, if VIP grants a daily award and you are indisposed on a given day or 2, why can't you grab it the day after?
Because they clearly said that if you don't login to collect, you lose out. It is no a matter of "can they make it do this" cause they absolutely could delivery a key via in game mail and be done with it. They made the choice to have you log in to the game to get it and made that perfectly clear up front.

Comcast could just as easily say "We are only going to charge you for the number of minutes you are actually watching TV per month". They can do it, but they don't and they likely never will.

This is not an issue of being technically possible - it is perfectly possible for them to deliver your backdated keys. They don't want to and they made it clear they wouldn't. No bait and switch or any other legal jargon you want to throw at them.

If you want to discuss whether it "SHOULD" be this way, you may wish to reword the topic.

I was simply adding my opinion that to me "subscriptions" that provide an item (more closely related to magazine, book, etc rather than a service - since VIP provides both (item + service), you don't lose the item just because you were away. Even services (like cable) allow you to freeze your subscription if you are going on vacation. So, why make the user click a button to get their key every day? Simply drop it in their inventory or mailbox.

VIP per diem

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