test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

current state of the TR

2

Comments

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    yes
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • maldian2016#5908 maldian2016 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Not sure what your build is completely but I am a Scoundrel and I have been doing great on DPS. I am running 2500+ GS and have been having a blast slaying beasts... So if they are going to rework it for more DPS... WOW...
    Maldian Thornbow
    70 Trixster Rogue
    Dethroned


    Facebook Profile
  • bajadera#5007 bajadera Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    I just started to play Neverwinter and rolled a TR.
    So after 1 month I have 2500 gs and I understand the frustration completely.

    I can't get in group for master Demogorgon.
    They want high DPS only.
    Today I waited to join hosted demo groups and searched for 3 hours.
    So after 3 hours I stopped searching for one..

    Farming Lostmauth, yea right... not with my TR.
    Again they want high DPS for speed farming/runs.
    I get maybe 1 invite per day when someone is searching for DPS class.


    I guess, the further I progress, I will get these problems as a TR in pve content.
    Noone needs a TR because it has low DPS, simply as that.
    It's always high DPS that is wanted.
    That's a BIG problem for the TR.
    I don't need to be TOP DPS but I want to be at least valuable in pve content.


    Chats go like this,
    Need Healer.
    Need Buff.
    Need high DPS.
    Need Tank.

    I don't mention anymore that I'm a TR when I look for groups, to embarrassed!
    So when a class is NOT NEEDED FOR ANYTHING then something is wrong with the class...

    Why would anyone start playing a TR?
    TR doesn't do enough dmg to be valuable in groups.
    Everyone says TR don't need to be stronger but you all play without one when farming high content lol.

    Again, I want more DPS to be valuable/needed.
    Not saying I need to be TOP DPS only a tiny bit valuable in pve .

    Give the TR a meaning in this game like any other class.
    If not then remove the class as it's useless!

    If the TR would be valuable in dungeons to disarm traps or anything like that, it would make the TR valuable without boosting his DPS.
    In dungeons alI I see, are red things on the ground you have to avoid, soooo static.

    About the game itself...
    I'm new to this game but I have played since 1997 mmorpg.
    I never have seen such a weak and not wanted class in a game.
    Not to mention the TR skills, that's a BIG JOKE.
    Most TR use low tier powers, like slashing, smoke bomb and dazing strike.
    Those are the best powers to use for dps.

    Why give the TR 70 combat skill points available when you only need about 30 skill points to play this class, wow....
    The further you go down the combat tree the worse it gets.

    Anyway, I am complaining but mostly frustrated just because I'm a experienced mmorpg player and have seen it ALL except this unbalanced, weak, not wanted class.



  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    I just started to play Neverwinter and rolled a TR.
    So after 1 month I have 2500 gs and I understand the frustration completely.

    I can't get in group for master Demogorgon.
    They want high DPS only.
    Today I waited to join hosted demo groups and searched for 3 hours.
    So after 3 hours I stopped searching for one..

    LFG and Zone channel? Don't. Use legit and alliance channel instead. It'll save you a lot of pain from not getting in just because you aren't a high DPS.

    My co-guild leader is doing great with her Saboteur TR. She's running a movement build in PvE.
  • dannycivicdannycivic Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    I totally feel your pain with TR I'm 2600 and it's nigh on impossible to get in a demo master and twisted set seems unacheivable with the frequency of getting on a master! 3 twisted ichor down though so perhaps by next year!!! I think they certainly need a better way to make a team a better support for the group so they are actually needed.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    Take a healer with you to MDemo. My friend is a 2600 GWF and is always top damage but people don't want him in their mDemo because they consider his IL too low. If he groups up with our Cleric and they try to get in, they get in over and over with no issues. I'll hit 2500 on my TR after double refinement and don't expect I'll be able to get in unless I can bring a healer with me.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    ravenskya said:

    Take a healer with you to MDemo. My friend is a 2600 GWF and is always top damage but people don't want him in their mDemo because they consider his IL too low. If he groups up with our Cleric and they try to get in, they get in over and over with no issues. I'll hit 2500 on my TR after double refinement and don't expect I'll be able to get in unless I can bring a healer with me.

    I ran PoM today on my main. I had two healing spell slotted. A 3.1K TR barely beat me in damage. When I say barely I mean barely.

    I had 14.7 million and the TR had 14.72 million in damage. Imagine if I had another damaging ability slotted.

    I see this regularly and here is what I am noticing...

    1) Many high IL character don't have the right gear. Many characters are walking around with legendary gear but it is the wrong gear for their character. A TR with a legendary Lathander Neck and Waist, OMG, no...TR should be getting gear that boost DPS stats and Lathander set is more for tank and maybe healers, not DPS.

    2) Wrong enchantments. I keep hearing get RI up to 60%. I see many players who do this but mainly run T1 and T2 dungeons. You don't need 60% unless you plan on playing Tiamat regularly. If you mainly run T1 and skirmishes you can get away with around 45% RI and add to other stats like Crit and Power.

    3) Builds - many players fail to review feats and see how to build a good character to max your toon potential. Instead I see many players fail as they build their character off MMOminds and YouTube but forget that these players have an IL of 4K and have guild boons, providing these players flexibility in their character. Without the better and stronger gear and guild boons players need to find the right balance of stats for their character to achieve maximum potential.

    4) Not dying, if you don't move out of the red AoE you are more than likely going to die.

    As for TR, when I was playing a TR up to level 40ish I had no issues what so ever. It felt just as strong as the GWF I ran up to level 40 as well.



  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    The TR is competitive in PVE up to about 60, then the other's overtake the TR until you get massively geared up. The TR requires so much more gear than the others to be competitive in the Damage category that it isn't even funny.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    ravenskya said:

    The TR is competitive in PVE up to about 60, then the other's overtake the TR until you get massively geared up. The TR requires so much more gear than the others to be competitive in the Damage category that it isn't even funny.

    I heard the same with GWF. They hit like a wet noodle for a while and than BAM they hit very hard.

    I find that my GF with mostly tank stats and my DC with stats set as a healer are about the same for damage. I would give a slight edge to my DC due to a higher crit rate and AoE encounters.

    The GF gets an edge as he can go toe to toe with enemies and not worry so much about needing to dodge his way out of red AoE. Instead I get my shield up and still hit until the red AoE is down. Drop my shield and go back to full on damage mode.

    I have yet to play any other class pass level 60 other than my GF and DC.

    I'm currently working on a CW that is close to level 10, got plenty of grinding to do before I hit 70.

    On a side note, my GF is built as a tank with boons going to the tank stats. My DC took healer or DPS stats. This means my tank suffers from lower damage due to this. If I would go full DPS with my tank I may actually be at or above my DC in damage. The other thing, my DC has only IWD and ToD for boons. My GF only has EE completed and is working on Dread Ring and Underdark ATM.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    That last Dread Ring boon is amazing for a healer.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    ravenskya said:

    That last Dread Ring boon is amazing for a healer.

    All boons are amazing due to the stat increases they provide. Guild boons are OMG OP goodness. LOL.

    I mean 8K boost in power for a guild boon. That would push my power to over 20K. That is just sick!

    Looking at how long it takes to get them all, it is understandable why they are so high.

    If you run content with a player with the guild boon you see it in how well they perform vs. other players.

  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    Someday we will get our guild there - right now we will just be happy to have enough characters running IWD to do the frozen treasure vouchers
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • gaylebismegaylebisme Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I feel that most of the tr complaints here are from people who ran with bad trs or are bad trs themselves.

    tr is about timing and skill u cant just mash or hold 1 button and expect to be top dps. u have to learn how to time your rotations and maximize your dps.

    choosing the corrects feats and skills/encounters and knowing what they do and how to use them is also very important. half of these people take the skills or copy a build but don't even know why or what to do. (learn your class)

    im not saying other classes are easy to play and tr is hard im saying u need to learn how to play your class and that goes for any class. I have ran with 3+k trs who are just horrible, wrong skills, wrong gear, wrong roations etc. and I have ran with some that will go toe to toe with any class out there.

    and im not just here running my mouth I play on ps4 my psn is onewingedangei and if anyone would like to run a quick dungeon with me so I can show that a tr is all about the player and how they play I will do that. im a 2700+ iL and I understand how my class works.

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    I feel that most of the tr complaints here are from people who ran with bad trs or are bad trs themselves.

    tr is about timing and skill u cant just mash or hold 1 button and expect to be top dps. u have to learn how to time your rotations and maximize your dps.

    choosing the corrects feats and skills/encounters and knowing what they do and how to use them is also very important. half of these people take the skills or copy a build but don't even know why or what to do. (learn your class)

    im not saying other classes are easy to play and tr is hard im saying u need to learn how to play your class and that goes for any class. I have ran with 3+k trs who are just horrible, wrong skills, wrong gear, wrong roations etc. and I have ran with some that will go toe to toe with any class out there.

    and im not just here running my mouth I play on ps4 my psn is onewingedangei and if anyone would like to run a quick dungeon with me so I can show that a tr is all about the player and how they play I will do that. im a 2700+ iL and I understand how my class works.


    This ^^^^^^

    LEARN YOUR CLASS.

    No matter how high your IL is, if you don't know your class, you won't be any good with it. I don't care if you have an IL of 4K. If you are playing the class and using a bad rotation, using wrong enchantment, etc..it won't make an impact.

    I seen this in other MMO games as well.
  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User




    Let me also add the majority of tr players are complete garbage, they get 20xed in epic runs and get kicked at the end. Its gotten so bad to the point some edemo teams auto remove trs from the team, and I can't remeber the last time I saw a tr on cn run.



    Basicly the class isn't strong, dps is similar to gwf if played right, extremely high maintenance since you need greater vorpal and Fire archon with good bondings. Just to be on par with a generic geared geared gwf or out dosed by sw that's 300ilevel under you.

    This is what I think too. Playing a TR is harder (or trickier) to obtain higher sustained DPS than any other class. Most people just seem to not realize it or don't have the twitch skills and they are mediocre. In other words there are a lot of TRs but few true Master TRs.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User




    Let me also add the majority of tr players are complete garbage, they get 20xed in epic runs and get kicked at the end. Its gotten so bad to the point some edemo teams auto remove trs from the team, and I can't remeber the last time I saw a tr on cn run.



    Basicly the class isn't strong, dps is similar to gwf if played right, extremely high maintenance since you need greater vorpal and Fire archon with good bondings. Just to be on par with a generic geared geared gwf or out dosed by sw that's 300ilevel under you.

    This is what I think too. Playing a TR is harder (or trickier) to obtain higher sustained DPS than any other class. Most people just seem to not realize it or don't have the twitch skills and they are mediocre. In other words there are a lot of TRs but few true Master TRs.
    Same can be said of any class. If you have the wrong setup or don't know when to use what ability you take a damage loss.

    For instance, me as a DC if I use Break the Spirit prior to using Divinity Encounters 3x I will miss out on getting a 30% buff for myself and my group in damage. Divinity mode if I go full on DG I may miss out on some other type of damage, etc...

    You have to learn and master rotations and know which ability to use and when and you have to modify your loadout/rotation based on the situation.

    For instance, TR are boss killers. Single target is where they shine. Not on many adds but a single target. Move over to the CW and GWF and now you have classes focused on multi target for damage.

    Knowing your role weaknesses and strength benefits you and the group.

    For instance in PoM the Rogue should be focused on the strongest addes, not the shadow demons or the weaker adds but the stronger one as their higher single target damage will allow them to add the group in getting gold. What I see is many rogues working on the weaker adds. Well I use chain and one DG and most of those adds are dead. The Rogue may have gotten 1-2 hits off. Not worth it for them to focus on the add. However, on the stronger adds they may get more damage off and can keep up with the other DPS classes.

    Know your class weaknesses and strength.

    I been in one run where a rogue was destroying things. He was the lowest DPS in the run but destroyed the other players. What matter is knowledge of your class. This rogue focused on the toughest add to ensure they could max out their damage. When it came to the boss they did not focus on the add, just the boss. When it was all said and done, they beat a GWF and a SW by a few million and again, he had the lowest IL.

    As I stated earlier, LEARN YOUR CLASS.
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited September 2016


    1) Many high IL character don't have the right gear. Many characters are walking around with legendary gear but it is the wrong gear for their character. A TR with a legendary Lathander Neck and Waist, OMG, no...TR should be getting gear that boost DPS stats and Lathander set is more for tank and maybe healers, not DPS.

    It's probably a dazer TR. Just that Lathander Waist can be replaced with Greater Constitution Belt. In dungeons, not every mob can be aggro'd by the tank, no matter how good he/she is. If DPS doesn't have some kind of defense mechanism when your stamina runs out and your utility power isn't there yet, then would you leave it to the Neverwinter gods to let you survive?
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User


    For instance in PoM the Rogue should be focused on the strongest addes...

    You still need someone to take hits for you. I don't know about PS4 PuGs but here in PC, teamwork is nonexistent.


  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User


    1) Many high IL character don't have the right gear. Many characters are walking around with legendary gear but it is the wrong gear for their character. A TR with a legendary Lathander Neck and Waist, OMG, no...TR should be getting gear that boost DPS stats and Lathander set is more for tank and maybe healers, not DPS.

    It's probably a dazer TR. Just that Lathander Waist can be replaced with Greater Constitution Belt. In dungeons, not every mob can be aggro'd by the tank, no matter how good he/she is. If DPS doesn't have some kind of defense mechanism when your stamina runs out and your utility power isn't there yet, then would you leave it to the Neverwinter gods to let you survive?
    You have stealth, dailies, artifacts, and potions beyond just dodge rolling away or using an encounter.

    As for the con belt, seriously. That extra HP matters little. As someone who plays a GF, going form 27 to 24 Con I saw very little decrease in HP and GF get a higher boost I believe in HP from Con than a TR would. .

    That enemy may have already been dead if the player had higher STR, power, or Crit.

    As for a tank not getting aggro; well I have played as a tank in a few MMOs and I can tell you this, it is not the tank fault that the DPS runs in front of them and dies. Who should be blamed there? The DPS for being in such a hurry.

  • dadissk#1707 dadissk Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    The thing like I said in the OP that we are talking about ppl with the same skill and same GS. So let's say e.g you have a SW a GWF a TR and a HR all around 2500 with proper gear and all of them know their rotations are timing their encounters well etc you still think that the TR is able to keep up the damage?
  • anarchjackanarchjack Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    Easily fixable problems, adjust the game itself to allow dual specs so that Tr's can have their pvp build and then their PvE build. Second, throw into the trickster rogue's PvE build some sort of extra defensive stats within the feats so that they can actually do damage in melee range while not getting one shotted by the backswing of a cleave in an epic dungeon. Less dodging means more dps in this case.
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User

    The thing like I said in the OP that we are talking about ppl with the same skill and same GS. So let's say e.g you have a SW a GWF a TR and a HR all around 2500 with proper gear and all of them know their rotations are timing their encounters well etc you still think that the TR is able to keep up the damage?

    well a 4.2k IL TR can keep up with a 3.7k IL Gwf in edemo :p If that helps.
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User


    As for the con belt, seriously. That extra HP matters little. As someone who plays a GF, going form 27 to 24 Con I saw very little decrease in HP and GF get a higher boost I believe in HP from Con than a TR would. .

    That enemy may have already been dead if the player had higher STR, power, or Crit.

    As for a tank not getting aggro; well I have played as a tank in a few MMOs and I can tell you this, it is not the tank fault that the DPS runs in front of them and dies. Who should be blamed there? The DPS for being in such a hurry.

    That extra HP still matters if you intend to survive rather than joining in a DPS race.

    Aggro isn't perfect in this game. If you can't continuously build threat on every single mob in an encounter, those mobs will chase the back line. They just....went straight through the tank and melee DPSes.

    And some groups "lllooovvveeee" to focus efficiency in Valindra's Tower by pulling every mob to a specific location. They don't even bother if people got killed by leftover mobs, they'll kick that person instead. And skipping Gelatinous Cubes? I'm pissed that most groups didn't bother to kill them.

    Bottom line is: You have to play your toon as if you're soloing it in groups, and trust no one in groups.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User

    The thing like I said in the OP that we are talking about ppl with the same skill and same GS. So let's say e.g you have a SW a GWF a TR and a HR all around 2500 with proper gear and all of them know their rotations are timing their encounters well etc you still think that the TR is able to keep up the damage?

    This is my argument exactly.

    But then perhaps I'm just a garbage TR.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    To get decent damage out of a TR you have to understand where it's damage bonuses come from (in feats) and use powers in the right combination to maximise those bonuses. With the right combinations you can multiply your dps.

    You also have to have a thorough understanding of how stats work and have the right enchantments & companions.

    The TR can compete but you need to have a more complete understanding of the class than if you run a GWF or SW.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • allmightymunky#3943 allmightymunky Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    To get decent damage out of a TR you have to understand where it's damage bonuses come from (in feats) and use powers in the right combination to maximise those bonuses. With the right combinations you can multiply your dps.

    You also have to have a thorough understanding of how stats work and have the right enchantments & companions.

    The TR can compete but you need to have a more complete understanding of the class than if you run a GWF or SW.

    I agree with you on this. I am leveling up my OP tank right now but my main is a TR. I can beat the tank and healer in damage but am almost always 3rd on the list. I keep tweaking a few things and am steadily going up. I tweaked my weapon a bit last night to match my powers a bit more and I will see how that goes after I get my OP to 70. OP is at 68 right now and I really want to get it geared up a bit before the expansion hits this month.
  • harryk#3230 harryk Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    i am rolling another class Tr 2500 il don't cut it it's really nerfed into the ground. Don't get me wrong it's fun to play but when other classes bring more to the table in every way why do you want a squishy TR who is going to die in close combat to the Boss and will need reviving. It's just that others are better and Tr well nobody wants them even 3k Tr will only say 3K dps looking for demogorgon master and not 3k tR Since they won't get any invites, 2.5 k GWF > 3.3K TR fact of life. What people prefer. So my GWF will be played here on and Tr will do his daily prayers hoping for a day when they are worth playing. I may still do the odd domination match because they can be fine there but 2 Paladins together and they won't kill them even one is hard work but few minutes of fighting and a mistake by him many potions consumed and you may get lucky and kill him.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Check feat bonuses for Shadow Burn, Back Alley Tactics and Press The Advantage. You want to use your skills so they all trigger together. Also stacking deflect - possibly with Shadowclad and you'll be able to tank most situations as you're bouncing 75% of all damage back on your enemies. ITC is not just for pvp.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • gaylebismegaylebisme Member Posts: 6 Arc User

    i am rolling another class Tr 2500 il don't cut it it's really nerfed into the ground. Don't get me wrong it's fun to play but when other classes bring more to the table in every way why do you want a squishy TR who is going to die in close combat to the Boss and will need reviving. It's just that others are better and Tr well nobody wants them even 3k Tr will only say 3K dps looking for demogorgon master and not 3k tR Since they won't get any invites, 2.5 k GWF > 3.3K TR fact of life. What people prefer. So my GWF will be played here on and Tr will do his daily prayers hoping for a day when they are worth playing. I may still do the odd domination match because they can be fine there but 2 Paladins together and they won't kill them even one is hard work but few minutes of fighting and a mistake by him many potions consumed and you may get lucky and kill him.


    not to beat a dead horse but most of what you said is what people say that cant use a tr properly. im not saying tr is an easy class and I agree that for every run u do with a tr 7 out of 10 are prob bad, I have seen it myself. but that is not every tr by any means. but to sat a 2.5 gwf over a 3k tr is laughable. and I will take my words toe to toe with any class. im on ps4 if you need to seek me out. onewingedangei is my psn.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    But if you WEREN'T the TR - if you were the healer or the tank, would you rather have a 2500IL GWF or a 2500IL TR in your group if both of them know how to play their character properly? Or take it back a bit, a 2100 IL of each - which would you rather have if you were the healer or tank?
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

Sign In or Register to comment.