darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
edited September 2016
@panderus Why dont you do in-game simple polls? if the forum is 10% of the players and you think is nor representative of the playerbase, then you need better tools to know the player feeling. We do lots of things in the game even if we dont like them because we dont have choice.
I don't get the complete denial of this being a terrible design choice. Enfranchised few and you can't tell if people hate it?
Why continue to post then? Please destroy this monstrosity before the console launch.
I can give you some data... I know several people who hated this mechanic before, and are now going on extended breaks due to this failed mod. And none of the active players that I know think this is a fun mechanic. It's not a good idea
Do yourselves the favor of fixing it, please.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The forums are largely only the enfranchised players and only some of them. Most players do not visit the forums let alone even post anything. Not saying those voices are wrong at all, just that it is not the whole iceberg if you will.
Player surveys are hard. A small small fraction of players ever respond to these sorts of things and it is not all player types, the results are skewed to some degree.
What we REALLY need is a mind reading device.
So I chewed on this over the weekend, and I'm really not happy with this perspective. I get that probably 95%+ of players don't visit the forums. But that still doesn't mean that the 5% who do aren't representative of the player base.
Look, as one of the moderator's here, I read a lot of posts. I see a lot of threads. And I have to step into a lot of dumb arguments and silly posts on obscure issues being advocated as the majority position. Trust me when I say I've seen some very HAMSTER posts here.
Yet the empowerment idea has been one that's been univerisally reviled since it was revealed. And I'm going to stand up and be completely transparent here. I was one of the very, very few voices advocating a "let's wait and see approach, black ice wasn't THAT bad" attitudes prior to Module 10 launching. I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt. And I can tell you that my desire to do more of the SKT content dropped off by about 90% after I made my first piece of Relic gear, when I realized the Sisyphean effort it would take to use that armor.
And beyond that, I'm a leader in a very large gaming community with a very active Neverwinter following. I'm a moderator on Reddit, part of another large alliance, as well as lurking on other community sites. And I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt there is no love for this empowerment system, and it's killing people's desire to advance their own gear via the SKT campaign and by completing Fangbreaker Island.
You don't need a mind reading device. You just need a reading device, and you need to point it to any major outlet for Neverwinter discussion, and you'll see how wildly unpopular this idea has been.
I didnt even run once fangbreaker even tho i currently have 2 toons 4k+. Screw that farm gear empower it to be able to run a dungeon to keep refilling it. Regardless i m not going to wear anything new until reinforcement kits will be removable and usable again.
I never hear anythign good about voinblood. The forums are almost 100% anti-voinblood. The forum poll I put up on the subject was over 90% against voinblood. Are you claiming that it is well loved addition to the game?
*snip*
On a seperate note have you ever considered some type of player base survey?
The forums are largely only the enfranchised players and only some of them. Most players do not visit the forums let alone even post anything. Not saying those voices are wrong at all, just that it is not the whole iceberg if you will.
Player surveys are hard. A small small fraction of players ever respond to these sorts of things and it is not all player types, the results are skewed to some degree.
So what? While most people have different flavors they still like or dislike the same things. (who doesn't like money... or sex... or games... or cute animals.. or.. well, you get it)
Lets say there are only 10% of players registered to the forums. If, out of those forums players, 90% tell you they dislike it, you can be sure most of the 90% unregistered players won't like it either.
btw, official forums, facebook, twitter, google+, email addresses, what are you using all those for, if not sharing surveys?
I'm an xbox user, I have not had a chance yet to play the new content but even I already hate the new system. I am player and I get the point that the other (pc) players are constantly making. Their arguments are totally legit, and once the new mod hits on consoles you will hear the exact same arguments from us as well.
If I had to wager a guess at some point there will be a change in the timer on the empowerment gear after there has been enough "data" collected. A small concession to be sure, but not far enough as far as I'm concerned. There has to be some other creative way to get people to start farming that doesn't involve this abomination of a game mechanic, please devs try to come up with something else!
Post edited by sh00termcl0vin on
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
Just want to weigh in here with 2 things :
- I'm about 9 - 10 days away from completing boon 5 in SKT on my main and I am done with the area ( i'm only at ilvl 2900 so I can't get into FBI however based on forums and in-game chat I'm probably going to give it a miss especially as i am not interested in farming gear that needs to be empowered.)
- Not sure if Cryptic know it but they have this in-game thing called chat, which i am sure is recorded somewhere. i'm sure a counter could be but in place to measure mentions on VB by account handles and if it is positive or negative.
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
FBI is a blast...recharging gear is not. I don't care because I only wear the boots and the "underarmor" kits. If you do not intend to grind out the dungeon forget the blood, but do give the dungeon a few runs for fun. It is truly a shame that there is no real reason to grind it. And really a shame that you have to grind blood to keep what you do obtain very marginally better than what you already have.
everything ironzerg is saying is on the money. i can barely log in right now--much less play--and i love grinding. the thing that makes grinding so rewarding is inching diligently towards a distant finish line AND CROSSING IT. but you've erased the finish line entirely. there's really no debate about how demoralizing and punitive this mechanic is. make it as hard as you want to get the gear, but for *&%^sake don't make people recharge it.
The forums are largely only the enfranchised players and only some of them. Most players do not visit the forums let alone even post anything. Not saying those voices are wrong at all, just that it is not the whole iceberg if you will.
Player surveys are hard. A small small fraction of players ever respond to these sorts of things and it is not all player types, the results are skewed to some degree.
What we REALLY need is a mind reading device.
So I chewed on this over the weekend, and I'm really not happy with this perspective. I get that probably 95%+ of players don't visit the forums. But that still doesn't mean that the 5% who do aren't representative of the player base.
That 5% is also likely a much larger portion of the players that are actually bothering with the SKT campaign.
I just don't really buy the idea that there is sizeable number players that don't hate the empowerment system given that there is a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase that is actually involved enough for it to be a problem.
A little preface - I like the game despite all the KITTENS.. hm I like kittens too. Its actually a love/hate relationship which had me spending real money ever since launch and at one point drove me away for more than a year. Anyway Im back and playing and I think, overall the gamehas gotten betten than it used to be. Of course the occasional super lag when your servers turn to rubber is maddening but at least its usually temporary and Im also kinda used to it having played Cryptic games for a long time now.
Ok, now on topic. I needed only one glance to make up my mind in regard to Black Ice 2.0. I will get as much of the new old resource I need for the boons and stop there. I will not try to get the Relic armor and even if i get a piece by chance from some HE I will not try to empower it and I will not use it. Making us replay such a failed concept, shame on you. If we actually do it, shame on us. In any case the grind in Neverwinter is almost too much, its at the tipping point as it is. And it would be demeaning to me as a human being to add any more mindless grind to an activity I supposedly do for fun. I honestly wish Neverwinter was a sub based game so then, we the players, could easily show you just how much we hate something. Alas it is what it is but what we need to keep in mind is that even in a free to play game we are the customer. We got the power.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I'm wearing 3 relic pieces at the moment and it's absolute hell, when I get my fourth I'm gonna lose my mind. I don't even run much content anymore cause the game bores me, so for someone who runs 10x dungeons than me a day that would be even worse. The empowerment cost is ridiculously high, not only that, when you guys invented the BI system, there used to be a potion that reduced BI consumption by 30% for x minutes, that was huge help. Here's a way to tackle the problem and attract more players into the dungeon and the gear. Either:
a. Make the uptime of the gear 8 hours instead of 2. b. Reduce the cost of empowerment into sane ones. c. do one of the above and add a x% less consumption potion like BI used to have. d. Remove the empowerment altogether.
Please, please, please and thank you from 1 player and the 300 other people in her guild community (here, no need for a survey, 85% of them never post on the forums and never will and they ALL, absolutely ALL of them hate it.)
Survey says... Like Lia said, we ALL hate it and we are almost 300 accounts between 2 guilds.
The empowerment doesn't even calculate right. It currently list mine on my HR as 18 which doesn't take into account my ring and one of the boons. I hate it too and so do the rest of my small guild.
I never hear anythign good about voinblood. The forums are almost 100% anti-voinblood. The forum poll I put up on the subject was over 90% against voinblood. Are you claiming that it is well loved addition to the game?
*snip*
On a seperate note have you ever considered some type of player base survey?
The forums are largely only the enfranchised players and only some of them. Most players do not visit the forums let alone even post anything. Not saying those voices are wrong at all, just that it is not the whole iceberg if you will.
Player surveys are hard. A small small fraction of players ever respond to these sorts of things and it is not all player types, the results are skewed to some degree.
So what? While most people have different flavors they still like or dislike the same things. (who doesn't like money... or sex... or games... or cute animals.. or.. well, you get it)
Lets say there are only 10% of players registered to the forums. If, out of those forums players, 90% tell you they dislike it, you can be sure most of the 90% unregistered players won't like it either.
btw, official forums, facebook, twitter, google+, email addresses, what are you using all those for, if not sharing surveys?
I'm an xbox user, I have not had a chance yet to play the new content but even I already hate the new system. I am player and I get the point that the other (pc) players are constantly making. Their arguments are totally legit, and once the new mod hits on consoles you will hear the exact same arguments from us as well.
Just be thankful you didn't have to trudge through Elemental Evil in it's original form. Maybe they will fix it before it gets to Xbox.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I will weigh on this again, because for some reason, you continue to mistake people running dailies as if that was the only parameter you need to take in.
I can clearly see a huge drop off of request to get into FBI... No one really wants to run this, not that its not fun, but because to get into it is annoying , dropping in and out of gear is annoying, the whole vblood fiasco is annoying. Exicement level of your game is as low as mod 6 really.. no one is super excited to log in and run this HAMSTER or ride around looking for vblood, do you really thing any of us want to do these things?
Mistake 1:
You rehashed HE's again. After requests to please stop using these things, there is more then enough of them in game for people who like them, they offer very little, other then poor time gating. Also the the RNG factor , is boinked as usual, some people are getting boot after boon, others have run up to hundred without getting the ones they wanted. Lanolin is yet another, some are getting decent drop rate, I can tell you I never got more then 1 out of ever ten or so hes.. making it virtually certain I would have to run hundreds and hundreds of HEs to get enough to make relic pieces.. what a bother, no thanks. I wont do that.
Mistake 2:
you brought back empowerment. A system most players didnt want, then not only did you bring it back, you brought it to a much higher level, with the vblood requirements are beyond outrageous. THERE ARE many tweaks you could do, but one of the most annoying features , is that the daily quests only net you 50 per.. what ... the...
Mistake 3:
We (the gaming community) asked for some harder content, you delivered, but then failed massively at the same time. We wanted harder content for the 1.5 years of advancement we did in game already (enchants, boons, weapons, ect ect ect) we didnt want the MISTAKE 2, to hamper some harder content, with needless and painful gating. This is clearly a HUGE miscommunication on your side, I fail to see where it was on our side, its clearly on yours.
Mistake 4:
Making SUPER boring content and expecting most of us to pay to skip it.. NO WAY HAMSTER... This is not going to happen, we are not stupid, some people spend money or zen no matter what.. thats up to them, but I can tell you most of us will not, just to skip boring overly grindy concept.
Mistake 5:
Being stubborn and holding to your ill fated concepts, that players clearly do not like, ask to be tweaked and trying to defend it. Myself like many people I know are more or less OPTING OUT of this module, If you RELEASE yet another content, based on empowerment and this system, you are just highlighting your error going forward and it could finally release some of us from logging in.. Thanks I guess?
Mistake 6:
Calling out forum users, what a load of marlarky, we are a cross hatch of the players in game, you know that, as well as us. If the vast majortity of forum users do not like something, this will be representative enough for in game purposes as well. Also, we are the ones who usually do the yeomans work of actually telling you what is wrong with your game, thanks for the insult I guess.. just goes to show you what you actually think of most of us. But whatever, never expected anything more anyways, clearly there is a divisiveness between game makers and community playerbase. Dont mistake influx of players from platforms with no real competition to keep you where you are at. You have to delivery better results then mod 10, eventually as other companies see your success on those platforms, they will draw more away.
I WILL tell you upfront, things like this empowerment gating , vblood acquisition level and the such, would be enough for alot of players, just to drop and run, why bother. This isnt wow, I left a game that wanted me to do 6 months worht of solo campaign (im not at all exaggerating, it was literally 6 months worth) after gutting out 6 months of raiding gear , because they (even admitted at the time) that they had nothing for us to do , so they were giving us busy work as they tried to figure out how to fix a broken expansion that didnt work at all how they expected it to.
A entire guild of 115 raiding people left.. all of us for releasing that garbage on us.
Dont be so short-sighed, dont be so vain or stubborn to think you are right in this matter. You are not.
I never hear anythign good about voinblood. The forums are almost 100% anti-voinblood. The forum poll I put up on the subject was over 90% against voinblood. Are you claiming that it is well loved addition to the game?
*snip*
On a seperate note have you ever considered some type of player base survey?
The forums are largely only the enfranchised players and only some of them. Most players do not visit the forums let alone even post anything. Not saying those voices are wrong at all, just that it is not the whole iceberg if you will.
Player surveys are hard. A small small fraction of players ever respond to these sorts of things and it is not all player types, the results are skewed to some degree.
So what? While most people have different flavors they still like or dislike the same things. (who doesn't like money... or sex... or games... or cute animals.. or.. well, you get it)
Lets say there are only 10% of players registered to the forums. If, out of those forums players, 90% tell you they dislike it, you can be sure most of the 90% unregistered players won't like it either.
btw, official forums, facebook, twitter, google+, email addresses, what are you using all those for, if not sharing surveys?
I'm an xbox user, I have not had a chance yet to play the new content but even I already hate the new system. I am player and I get the point that the other (pc) players are constantly making. Their arguments are totally legit, and once the new mod hits on consoles you will hear the exact same arguments from us as well.
Just be thankful you didn't have to trudge through Elemental Evil in it's original form. Maybe they will fix it before it gets to Xbox.
What are you talking about? We had to go through the same EE vigilance quest HAMSTER just like you pc guys. I don't even get how you came up with this idea. Be grateful you can play unenjoyable content before we can!
There's a bazillion things we have to do, before we can even start having fun in the dungeons. And You keep adding more and more.By the time we are ready for dungeons,we are tired of farming and clicking on menus and stuff.Examples:
-Inventory space :bags are always about to explode,and every mod has more and more stuff to consume inventory slots. Many items have 3 versions, BTa,btc, or unbound. We have stronghold stuff.Items from dailies.We pray,more stuff spawns in our inventory. Sometimes,we walk on trash loot,and stuff auto-jumps in your inventory. Now we will have to carry 2 sets of gear,(my cleric will carry 3),and potions,extra ring,keys,buff foods.Managing inventory space is stressful,time consuming and creates feelings that the extreme opposite of fun and enjoyment .
-we now have to farm this new "black ice",for the new gear and campaign.I remember having this conversation with a friend,after IWD mod : Me "Hi,wanna do a dungeon?" , Him: "sorry,can't,have to farm black ice to feed my gear" So,to do a dungeon with him,first we had to go to iwd,so he could farm some ice. Btw, this friend got burnt out from all the farming,and quit the game. Now we have black ice 2.0. Do a huge campaign,farm lanolin,HEs on a blinding white screen, that takes a ton of time,running in an instance full of grumpy people(because they are *not* having fun), to get that rotting armor,that will force you to waste even more time to keep it fed.
-farm influ,shards and all kinds of currency stuff,for the mimic.
-Professions now are even more time consuming .The gateway allowed us to do a few tasks,work,take care of rl stuff,do a few more,etc Now we have to log on on the game,and stare at loading screens,inferior interface, and generous chances of getting disconnected during toon changes,etc More time, consumed with a boring repetitive task.
-Dailies,dailies and more dailies,and oceans of voninblod
By the time I'm done with all these tasks,I'm tired and annoyed,and already spend all the energy and time I had for the game,without having any fun.
-And don't forget the poor rewards: I did hundreds of POMs,CNs,Edemos,and the loot was mostly awful,I got 1 orange useless ring form cn. Most of the time,cn gives me some blue rings and generous amounts of disappointment and wasted time.
I have 4 main toons, and and all that farming and trash management is too much. I even removed 2 from guilds,because all the farming was getting extremely unpleasant,and I didn't want to leech others people hard work.
So this game requires an insane amount of effort,farming,inventory management, and the rewards are not worth the effort.I have to feed a mimic,artifact weapons,artifacts,enchants,and now even my armor demands huge amounts of some fancy food.
This game needs more fun,and less boring tasks. Or at least,a better balance between the 2.
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matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
I did hundreds of POMs,CNs,Edemos,and the loot was mostly awful,I got 1 orange useless ring form cn. Most of the time,cn gives me some blue rings and generous amounts of disappointment and wasted time.
Dear panderus, this quote is in EVERYONE's head. You dont need a special questionaire filled from everyone to realize this, just check the loot tables. And since low percentages are Cryptic's favorite tool let me make an educated guess.....with all these great decisions that keep coming from "above", the population who was active and generated revenue one way or another will surely reach the Legendary 0.05% of what once was. Keep these great ideas coming and the Legendary Ring of Total Failure will finally drop.
The forums are largely only the enfranchised players and only some of them. Most players do not visit the forums let alone even post anything. Not saying those voices are wrong at all, just that it is not the whole iceberg if you will.
Player surveys are hard. A small small fraction of players ever respond to these sorts of things and it is not all player types, the results are skewed to some degree.
What we REALLY need is a mind reading device.
So I chewed on this over the weekend, and I'm really not happy with this perspective. I get that probably 95%+ of players don't visit the forums. But that still doesn't mean that the 5% who do aren't representative of the player base.
Look, as one of the moderator's here, I read a lot of posts. I see a lot of threads. And I have to step into a lot of dumb arguments and silly posts on obscure issues being advocated as the majority position. Trust me when I say I've seen some very HAMSTER posts here.
Yet the empowerment idea has been one that's been univerisally reviled since it was revealed. And I'm going to stand up and be completely transparent here. I was one of the very, very few voices advocating a "let's wait and see approach, black ice wasn't THAT bad" attitudes prior to Module 10 launching. I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt. And I can tell you that my desire to do more of the SKT content dropped off by about 90% after I made my first piece of Relic gear, when I realized the Sisyphean effort it would take to use that armor.
And beyond that, I'm a leader in a very large gaming community with a very active Neverwinter following. I'm a moderator on Reddit, part of another large alliance, as well as lurking on other community sites. And I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt there is no love for this empowerment system, and it's killing people's desire to advance their own gear via the SKT campaign and by completing Fangbreaker Island.
You don't need a mind reading device. You just need a reading device, and you need to point it to any major outlet for Neverwinter discussion, and you'll see how wildly unpopular this idea has been.
+1
This, exactly. @panderus I hope you read through the above and take it to heart. You're in a position to be a player's advocate here.
Even the line of reasoning regarding there being a higher demand on voidnoidbloid right now doesn't really hold water. The boons cost a bit, but the costs aren't very high until you reach the 3rd and 4th boons, which folks didn't unlock until recently. The costs throughout the rest of the store aren't huge, and apart from making it cheaper to buy the gear you need to enter FBI they offer no incentive to invest. All of those costs pale in comparison to restoring and empowering the relic armor.
I'm beginning to lose patience with this as well. There is no "fun" way to farm voidnoidbloid. There is no incentive to farm it either. The whole concept just makes me want to take a break from this game.
There is supposed to be SOME amount of feeling that you don't have enough Voninblod
And, as the entire community told you when you introduced Black Ice, is a horrible way of forcing players to grind. And as with BI in the past, players just won't do it.
Except players did do it. A lot. What some people say and what we see players do are not always the same. Again, though I'm not saying its tuned right, but its probably not grossly off from my feelings of personal gameplay.
I'm sorry @panderus but you seem to be obstinately refusing to see the point that is being made here over and over again. Players may well be 'doing it' in significant quantities but they are almost universally hating doing it. The point being: mining/farming Voninblod is in no way, shape or form an enjoyable or fun way to spend time in the game. Clearly, the data you keep looking at is only telling you part of the story, but are you honestly going to try and convince people that 'they really were/are enjoying' mining Black Ice or farming for relics and Voninblod to empower their almost completely useless new pieces of gear when they keep telling you they aren't ?
Come at the issue from the developers side and think about these questions:
How do you know it is universally hated? If so many people hate it, why would they keep doing it (admittedly, some subset of players will do whatever is hated if it gains them power)? How do you measure how many people are doing it despite hating it?
Is there a clear answer to any of those?
If I was running an entertainment business and if my most dedicated users (the ones that care enough to give feedback) were universally telling me how much they hate something, i'd start really looking hard into it to solve the issue ASAP to act quickly instead of trolling them on the forums.
You know, if you want player input that's non-biased (not just those of us invested enough to use the forums),
Have an in-game advertisement for a survey where, if they take the survey, they get 100 zen or something like that.
You still get self-selection bias (you're only looking at the people who care enough about the game to think X amount of zen is worth their time to take a survey-you can refine the rewards of course, something like preservation wards or even a coalescent ward that's bound to account), but at least you don't get people who are just complaining for the sake of complaining.
I'm very much a solo player, and only have one character, so I recognize my experience is atypical; I don't bother getting relic gear because I don't like group content (including HEs). But I also don't have time to play much, so I'm looking at the Vorinblood requirement *just for the boons* and wondering how long it's going to take. But I'll also note I have the tradebar frostburn armor and I just don't bother empowering it, because it'd be far too much work to bother for the marginal bonus it gets.
We are not biased. We're their most captive audience, as we're the ones that are dedicated enough to bother giving feedback instead of simply looking at greener pastures and move on. It should initiate some urgent thinking on what they've done, but no, instead we're told that the Holy Metrics are always right and that we're only liars and biased.
Look. I did use voninblod empowerment on my frostborn gear. Why? To get into FBI. Nothing more, nothing less. Did I do it? Absolutely. Did I enjoy putting litteraly hours of grind into that HAMSTER? God no.
Now you understand why we are getting this hot load out option to swap gear sets etc. You wont have to worry about all the grind and wasting the empowerment. You can just load out the needed item level/relic gear to get into FBI and press that automagical load out button and get back to the regular non empowered gear and move along like it never even happened.
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@panderus. I'm in the second italian guild: 150 players, 500 accounts. In the evenings you easily see 50 players connected or even more. Do you know how many of us are actually doing FBI? Three, even if we have plenty of 3.1k or more players. And we do it for the challenge mostly, not for the rewards. Of these three I'm the only one potentially interested in the gear as it is the only power/crit set for the HR. Grinding your way to FBI is a bit boring but ok. The dungeon is really good, best one in the game with the old Frozen Heart. But then you open the chest and what do you find? Another chest.... You open it and you get? A black opal... So far I played it 11 times and got nine opals, one sapphire and one of the old purple blades... I can only play it once a day considering that finding a group is not that easy and my playing time is not infinite. What are the chances I'll get the three pieces I want before the next set comes out? And even if I get a piece I have to restore it and maintain it. But by the time I'll have the set we will probably be in a new module where I can't farm voninblod while doing dailies, so maintaining the set is not an option.... I'll still do FBI because it's a great dungeon but almost nobody else in the guild is going to look at it. Of the three of us one already basically gave up because he mains a TR and for that class it is even more difficult to find a group.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I'm about halfway done farming voninblood (from relic farming) so I can get into FBI. Just because I'm doing it doesn't mean I like it. The opposite is true: I dislike it strongly. This isn't a matter of degree, where I could say I have "a little fun" doing it. No. I have absolutely no fun doing it in any way, and in fact I have unfun doing it. Farming relics has been one of the few activities in game where all I could think about was how much I'd rather be doing something other than playing NVW, such as watching a movie or playing another game. It really made me feel like playing this game was wasting my limited time of my life on something that simply wasn't worth it. This sounds dramatic I guess, but it's true.
Once I get the EF resist to get into FBI, I'm done farming voninblood forever. I'm not going to wear any empowered gear other than to get into FBI. I'm probably not going to try to get the 5th boon or complete the rest of the SKT campaign. I doubt I'll run FBI much due to the lackluster rewards, but the jury is out on this since I've yet to run it. And I don't care about getting the new armor.
Mod 10 hasn't been all bad. I liked the visuals of 2 of the 3 new zones (Bryn Shandar and Lonelywood). I'm looking forward to the new dungeon. But gating it so much, farming relics, and having the empowerment decay has soured the whole mod to me. I just can't understand the direction the devs are taking this game.
Honestly, it baffles me how these unfun mechanics even made it in the game (but maybe I am in the small minority of people who think it's unfun). I know myself and my mmo gaming habits well enough to predict that if any similar decay or relic farming mechanics are even announced for future mods of this game, I will almost certainly leave the game forever. The only reason I'm still going to play now is because this is the only mmo my friend will play right now while we wait for something else to come along.
I want to have reasons to support the development of Neverwinter, but if this is the kind of direction the game is headed in then it is just very hard for me to justify investing any more time and especially money into my character. I just can't do it. I'll log in to run dungeons with my friend, but that's it.
Please get off yet keesters and fix this abomination BEFORE October 18th!! You are hemorrhaging players on Xbox, just with the reports of how this mod is going for the PC players.
No one that I've spoken to wants this kind of carp in the game, and many will leave if this silly design is not removed very soon.
Please get off yet keesters and fix this abomination BEFORE October 18th!! You are hemorrhaging players on Xbox, just with the reports of how this mod is going for the PC players.
No one that I've spoken to wants this kind of carp in the game, and many will leave if this silly design is not removed very soon.
Are you guys listening?!? Please listen...
Hey, I think you all are missing the point... remember... As bad as it is... it is still better than it never was! sorry feeling like a sociopath.
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Why continue to post then? Please destroy this monstrosity before the console launch.
I can give you some data... I know several people who hated this mechanic before, and are now going on extended breaks due to this failed mod. And none of the active players that I know think this is a fun mechanic. It's not a good idea
Do yourselves the favor of fixing it, please.
Look, as one of the moderator's here, I read a lot of posts. I see a lot of threads. And I have to step into a lot of dumb arguments and silly posts on obscure issues being advocated as the majority position. Trust me when I say I've seen some very HAMSTER posts here.
Yet the empowerment idea has been one that's been univerisally reviled since it was revealed. And I'm going to stand up and be completely transparent here. I was one of the very, very few voices advocating a "let's wait and see approach, black ice wasn't THAT bad" attitudes prior to Module 10 launching. I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt. And I can tell you that my desire to do more of the SKT content dropped off by about 90% after I made my first piece of Relic gear, when I realized the Sisyphean effort it would take to use that armor.
And beyond that, I'm a leader in a very large gaming community with a very active Neverwinter following. I'm a moderator on Reddit, part of another large alliance, as well as lurking on other community sites. And I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt there is no love for this empowerment system, and it's killing people's desire to advance their own gear via the SKT campaign and by completing Fangbreaker Island.
You don't need a mind reading device. You just need a reading device, and you need to point it to any major outlet for Neverwinter discussion, and you'll see how wildly unpopular this idea has been.
Lets say there are only 10% of players registered to the forums. If, out of those forums players, 90% tell you they dislike it, you can be sure most of the 90% unregistered players won't like it either.
btw, official forums, facebook, twitter, google+, email addresses, what are you using all those for, if not sharing surveys?
I'm an xbox user, I have not had a chance yet to play the new content but even I already hate the new system. I am player and I get the point that the other (pc) players are constantly making. Their arguments are totally legit, and once the new mod hits on consoles you will hear the exact same arguments from us as well.
- I'm about 9 - 10 days away from completing boon 5 in SKT on my main and I am done with the area ( i'm only at ilvl 2900 so I can't get into FBI however based on forums and in-game chat I'm probably going to give it a miss especially as i am not interested in farming gear that needs to be empowered.)
- Not sure if Cryptic know it but they have this in-game thing called chat, which i am sure is recorded somewhere. i'm sure a counter could be but in place to measure mentions on VB by account handles and if it is positive or negative.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
I just don't really buy the idea that there is sizeable number players that don't hate the empowerment system given that there is a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase that is actually involved enough for it to be a problem.
Ok, now on topic. I needed only one glance to make up my mind in regard to Black Ice 2.0. I will get as much of the new old resource I need for the boons and stop there. I will not try to get the Relic armor and even if i get a piece by chance from some HE I will not try to empower it and I will not use it. Making us replay such a failed concept, shame on you. If we actually do it, shame on us. In any case the grind in Neverwinter is almost too much, its at the tipping point as it is. And it would be demeaning to me as a human being to add any more mindless grind to an activity I supposedly do for fun. I honestly wish Neverwinter was a sub based game so then, we the players, could easily show you just how much we hate something. Alas it is what it is but what we need to keep in mind is that even in a free to play game we are the customer. We got the power.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I can clearly see a huge drop off of request to get into FBI... No one really wants to run this, not that its not fun, but because to get into it is annoying , dropping in and out of gear is annoying, the whole vblood fiasco is annoying. Exicement level of your game is as low as mod 6 really.. no one is super excited to log in and run this HAMSTER or ride around looking for vblood, do you really thing any of us want to do these things?
Mistake 1:
You rehashed HE's again. After requests to please stop using these things, there is more then enough of them in game for people who like them, they offer very little, other then poor time gating. Also the the RNG factor , is boinked as usual, some people are getting boot after boon, others have run up to hundred without getting the ones they wanted. Lanolin is yet another, some are getting decent drop rate, I can tell you I never got more then 1 out of ever ten or so hes.. making it virtually certain I would have to run hundreds and hundreds of HEs to get enough to make relic pieces.. what a bother, no thanks. I wont do that.
Mistake 2:
you brought back empowerment. A system most players didnt want, then not only did you bring it back, you brought it to a much higher level, with the vblood requirements are beyond outrageous. THERE ARE many tweaks you could do, but one of the most annoying features , is that the daily quests only net you 50 per.. what ... the...
Mistake 3:
We (the gaming community) asked for some harder content, you delivered, but then failed massively at the same time. We wanted harder content for the 1.5 years of advancement we did in game already (enchants, boons, weapons, ect ect ect) we didnt want the MISTAKE 2, to hamper some harder content, with needless and painful gating. This is clearly a HUGE miscommunication on your side, I fail to see where it was on our side, its clearly on yours.
Mistake 4:
Making SUPER boring content and expecting most of us to pay to skip it.. NO WAY HAMSTER... This is not going to happen, we are not stupid, some people spend money or zen no matter what.. thats up to them, but I can tell you most of us will not, just to skip boring overly grindy concept.
Mistake 5:
Being stubborn and holding to your ill fated concepts, that players clearly do not like, ask to be tweaked and trying to defend it. Myself like many people I know are more or less OPTING OUT of this module, If you RELEASE yet another content, based on empowerment and this system, you are just highlighting your error going forward and it could finally release some of us from logging in.. Thanks I guess?
Mistake 6:
Calling out forum users, what a load of marlarky, we are a cross hatch of the players in game, you know that, as well as us. If the vast majortity of forum users do not like something, this will be representative enough for in game purposes as well. Also, we are the ones who usually do the yeomans work of actually telling you what is wrong with your game, thanks for the insult I guess.. just goes to show you what you actually think of most of us. But whatever, never expected anything more anyways, clearly there is a divisiveness between game makers and community playerbase. Dont mistake influx of players from platforms with no real competition to keep you where you are at. You have to delivery better results then mod 10, eventually as other companies see your success on those platforms, they will draw more away.
I WILL tell you upfront, things like this empowerment gating , vblood acquisition level and the such, would be enough for alot of players, just to drop and run, why bother. This isnt wow, I left a game that wanted me to do 6 months worht of solo campaign (im not at all exaggerating, it was literally 6 months worth) after gutting out 6 months of raiding gear , because they (even admitted at the time) that they had nothing for us to do , so they were giving us busy work as they tried to figure out how to fix a broken expansion that didnt work at all how they expected it to.
A entire guild of 115 raiding people left.. all of us for releasing that garbage on us.
Dont be so short-sighed, dont be so vain or stubborn to think you are right in this matter. You are not.
-Inventory space :bags are always about to explode,and every mod has more and more stuff to consume inventory slots. Many items have 3 versions, BTa,btc, or unbound. We have stronghold stuff.Items from dailies.We pray,more stuff spawns in our inventory. Sometimes,we walk on trash loot,and stuff auto-jumps in your inventory. Now we will have to carry 2 sets of gear,(my cleric will carry 3),and potions,extra ring,keys,buff foods.Managing inventory space is stressful,time consuming and creates feelings that the extreme opposite of fun and enjoyment .
-we now have to farm this new "black ice",for the new gear and campaign.I remember having this conversation with a friend,after IWD mod : Me "Hi,wanna do a dungeon?" , Him: "sorry,can't,have to farm black ice to feed my gear" So,to do a dungeon with him,first we had to go to iwd,so he could farm some ice. Btw, this friend got burnt out from all the farming,and quit the game. Now we have black ice 2.0. Do a huge campaign,farm lanolin,HEs on a blinding white screen, that takes a ton of time,running in an instance full of grumpy people(because they are *not* having fun), to get that rotting armor,that will force you to waste even more time to keep it fed.
-farm influ,shards and all kinds of currency stuff,for the mimic.
-Professions now are even more time consuming .The gateway allowed us to do a few tasks,work,take care of rl stuff,do a few more,etc Now we have to log on on the game,and stare at loading screens,inferior interface, and generous chances of getting disconnected during toon changes,etc More time, consumed with a boring repetitive task.
-Dailies,dailies and more dailies,and oceans of voninblod
By the time I'm done with all these tasks,I'm tired and annoyed,and already spend all the energy and time I had for the game,without having any fun.
-And don't forget the poor rewards: I did hundreds of POMs,CNs,Edemos,and the loot was mostly awful,I got 1 orange useless ring form cn. Most of the time,cn gives me some blue rings and generous amounts of disappointment and wasted time.
I have 4 main toons, and and all that farming and trash management is too much. I even removed 2 from guilds,because all the farming was getting extremely unpleasant,and I didn't want to leech others people hard work.
So this game requires an insane amount of effort,farming,inventory management, and the rewards are not worth the effort.I have to feed a mimic,artifact weapons,artifacts,enchants,and now even my armor demands huge amounts of some fancy food.
This game needs more fun,and less boring tasks. Or at least,a better balance between the 2.
This, exactly. @panderus I hope you read through the above and take it to heart. You're in a position to be a player's advocate here.
Even the line of reasoning regarding there being a higher demand on voidnoidbloid right now doesn't really hold water. The boons cost a bit, but the costs aren't very high until you reach the 3rd and 4th boons, which folks didn't unlock until recently. The costs throughout the rest of the store aren't huge, and apart from making it cheaper to buy the gear you need to enter FBI they offer no incentive to invest. All of those costs pale in comparison to restoring and empowering the relic armor.
I'm beginning to lose patience with this as well. There is no "fun" way to farm voidnoidbloid. There is no incentive to farm it either. The whole concept just makes me want to take a break from this game.
Look. I did use voninblod empowerment on my frostborn gear. Why? To get into FBI. Nothing more, nothing less. Did I do it? Absolutely. Did I enjoy putting litteraly hours of grind into that HAMSTER? God no.
Three, even if we have plenty of 3.1k or more players. And we do it for the challenge mostly, not for the rewards.
Of these three I'm the only one potentially interested in the gear as it is the only power/crit set for the HR.
Grinding your way to FBI is a bit boring but ok. The dungeon is really good, best one in the game with the old Frozen Heart.
But then you open the chest and what do you find? Another chest.... You open it and you get? A black opal... So far I played it 11 times and got nine opals, one sapphire and one of the old purple blades... I can only play it once a day considering that finding a group is not that easy and my playing time is not infinite. What are the chances I'll get the three pieces I want before the next set comes out?
And even if I get a piece I have to restore it and maintain it. But by the time I'll have the set we will probably be in a new module where I can't farm voninblod while doing dailies, so maintaining the set is not an option....
I'll still do FBI because it's a great dungeon but almost nobody else in the guild is going to look at it. Of the three of us one already basically gave up because he mains a TR and for that class it is even more difficult to find a group.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Once I get the EF resist to get into FBI, I'm done farming voninblood forever. I'm not going to wear any empowered gear other than to get into FBI. I'm probably not going to try to get the 5th boon or complete the rest of the SKT campaign. I doubt I'll run FBI much due to the lackluster rewards, but the jury is out on this since I've yet to run it. And I don't care about getting the new armor.
Mod 10 hasn't been all bad. I liked the visuals of 2 of the 3 new zones (Bryn Shandar and Lonelywood). I'm looking forward to the new dungeon. But gating it so much, farming relics, and having the empowerment decay has soured the whole mod to me. I just can't understand the direction the devs are taking this game.
Honestly, it baffles me how these unfun mechanics even made it in the game (but maybe I am in the small minority of people who think it's unfun). I know myself and my mmo gaming habits well enough to predict that if any similar decay or relic farming mechanics are even announced for future mods of this game, I will almost certainly leave the game forever. The only reason I'm still going to play now is because this is the only mmo my friend will play right now while we wait for something else to come along.
I want to have reasons to support the development of Neverwinter, but if this is the kind of direction the game is headed in then it is just very hard for me to justify investing any more time and especially money into my character. I just can't do it. I'll log in to run dungeons with my friend, but that's it.
No one that I've spoken to wants this kind of carp in the game, and many will leave if this silly design is not removed very soon.
Are you guys listening?!? Please listen...