How is it driving prices up if everyone was undercutting him? An item's value is only what someone is willing to pay for it.
Totally this. If someone posts an item ten times what you think it's worth, and someone buys it, then that item was worth 10 times to that guy what it is to you. No one broke his arm to do it (probably; I make no claims about the activities of a hypothetical Neverwinter Mafia). He paid what he wanted to pay, stop trying to make him feel bad.
Furthermore, elimination of posting fees is more likely to help lower prices than not, as it liquidifies resources, making it easier and more efficient to convert and transfer forms of wealth. If you ever noticed how rich people tend to take out loans for stuff, and wonder "oh, yeah, because you really needed a million dollar loan when you're worth 15 billion, pfffft", then (1) stop being such a kitten and relax, there are more mature ways to handle opinions on wealth, and (2) this happens because most of their wealth is tied up in non-liquid resources (property and stocks, for example), which cannot be easily converted into money, so they get loans which are backed by the value of those non-liquid resources and is paid back over time as resources are slowly converted into cash. There's no loan system in-game. I can't walk up to the Bank, offer a legendary mount as collateral and have it spit out a few (dozen) million AD for me. An AH that is less punishing in converting high value items into currency is a good thing; posting fees are a severe and steep risk on slow moving, high value items.
Moderator edited bad word that the profanity filter didn't catch.
There are 2 different problems at play. Undercutting is not an issue in my opinion. But basically the problem as stated for undercutting is that someone can just keep pulling their item off the market (with no consequence) and relisting it lower and lower.
To me this isn't a problem because if there was enough demand for the items in the first place you wouldn't need to undercut.
The real issue with no posting fees is that people are overloading the AH and using it as a dumping ground with no consequences because there is no fee. As such, they are posting items for 10x what they are worth and they are NOT selling and the seller doesn't care.
The only way I can see getting around this issue is if they only allow you to post for "free" an item that is within 20% of the average price that item sold for.
Post edited by kreatyve on
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
edited August 2016
Why does it even bother you that the AH is being dumped on @sm0ld3r? You ain't carrying all that stuff on your back... Let it be, doesn't matter if it doesn't sell. You are trying to say about the perfect situation with all rules, but nobody cares, this system we have now is helping a lot. About the fails, it most certainly ain't related to the number of items.
There are 2 different problems at play. Undercutting is not an issue in my opinion. But basically the problem as stated for undercutting is that someone can just keep pulling their item off the market (with no consequence) and relisting it lower and lower.
I take it you've never heard of a sale or competition adjusting market prices.
And there is a very obvious consequence to undercutting: you're getting less for what you're selling. It's actively costing you AD regardless.
The real issue with no posting fees is that people are overloading the AH and using it as a dumping ground with no consequences because there is no fee. As such, they are posting items for 10x what they are worth and they are NOT selling and the seller doesn't care.
So? Why do you care? Does it offend your delicate sensibilities to see overpriced items that have exactly no relevance to you or your spending, or anyone else's for that matter? Woe is you. I suggest you get over it.
"But, daddy, somewhere somebody is eating an Oreo WRONG! RAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEE!" --this is you
This situation is artificially created due to the lack of any consequences for posting items at ridiculous prices.
Why don't real world stores just sell items for 10x what they are worth? Because they have overhead and monthly expenses that they need to cover so they HAVE to sell a minimum amount of items to just cover their costs.
How do you explain the existence of print cartridge filling services? The original print liquids costs nothing and is sold for more than gold per ounce.
Nevertheless, you still have not explained why no AH posting fee for VIP bothers you. Are you having a problem as a buyer (AH customer) or poster (AH seller) perspective?
poster (AH seller) perspective: The only scenario why you could have a problem was if everybody except you has VIP and there is one useless purple mount in the AH for 20m. You want to sell your new purple mount and try to rip off an innocent noow who does not know the value of the mount abd put it up at 19m. Now the VIP reposts his mount for 18m. rinse and repeat, you have costs, the VIP not. NOT FAIR says some unknown source. If you had put up your mount for real FAIR value the VIP might have undercut you, but he also would have sold his mount very fast, and then your mount would be sold very fast as well. So, are you jealous that you can not rip off new players that do not know the worth of things?
buyer (AH customer) perspective: there are only mounts for the (in your opinion insane) price of 20m+ on the AH. You think this item should only sell (or you only want to buy) for 1m. Now, don't you think there is a poster (AH seller) as the one described above in Faerun that has no VIP? How often can he post his mount for more than 5m, until his funds run dry? Do you fear that the overpriced 20m mount entices other non-VIP players to think that the not-so-valueable mount will now follow the VIP player and price his mount at 20m as well?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
People does not realize that no posting fee will significant reduce the trading per time in the market. Is it good for sellers or buyers? I don't think so.
There are 2 different problems at play. Undercutting is not an issue in my opinion. But basically the problem as stated for undercutting is that someone can just keep pulling their item off the market (with no consequence) and relisting it lower and lower.
To me this isn't a problem because if there was enough demand for the items in the first place you wouldn't need to undercut.
The real issue with no posting fees is that people are overloading the AH and using it as a dumping ground with no consequences because there is no fee. As such, they are posting items for 10x what they are worth and they are NOT selling and the seller doesn't care.
The only way I can see getting around this issue is if they only allow you to post for "free" an item that is within 20% of the average price that item sold for.
Welcome to price regulations. There is no reason for prices to change for more then 20% because the masses dictate prices and supply and demand never change. Everybody is always right, lets hold hands and sing together.
HV set went from 7k each to +1.5kk, but sure, lets wait until the dime dropped for the last player before you raise the price.
If there is a change in supply and demand you should not have to wait until the prices went up % for % or fear, that the others are to slow and lose AD bc it took them a few days longer to realize.
When I sell high priced items there is a boatload of ppl pming me, telling me that my prices are to high and offering much less. Thing is, if I sell, I set the price, not the buyer, as long as I dont have to sell.
If I sell something for 100k, 1kk or 20kk AD and 20 ppl tell me, I wont sell it and offer less, I know, that at last 20 ppl are interested and I can wait for player number 21 paying what I asked for.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I really don't get it. VIP is extremely simple to acquire and pays itself back, there is absolutely no reason not to have it. I could understand the OP if VIP was very difficult to obtain or gated behind a money paywall but it is not. You can buy your first month of VIP in two weeks after you get to level 70 and by only selling what you get with the daily key you can keep it up, get extra ad, extra dungeon keys, save costs at the Bazaar and AH and get a bunch of in-game improvements like instant teleports and accessibility to merchant, mail and bank from anywhere (it takes time to get them all but they come for free over time). It is basically the first thing you should buy together with a Zen Market purple mount if you plan to play the game for more than a few weeks. And it promotes undercutting that drives prices down. I agree that it may drive the price of some ultra-rare items up (rare enough that the undercutting process doesn't happen), but if you can spend 50kk ad for something most likely you can spend 70kk too....
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
This situation is artificially created due to the lack of any consequences for posting items at ridiculous prices.
Why don't real world stores just sell items for 10x what they are worth? Because they have overhead and monthly expenses that they need to cover so they HAVE to sell a minimum amount of items to just cover their costs.
How do you explain the existence of print cartridge filling services? The original print liquids costs nothing and is sold for more than gold per ounce.
Nevertheless, you still have not explained why no AH posting fee for VIP bothers you. Are you having a problem as a buyer (AH customer) or poster (AH seller) perspective?
I've tried several of those cartridge refilling services and the ink ends up clogging the printer head. They exist because of the crazy markup on ink such that it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to keep buying the ink.
I thought I was clear on why no posting fees bother me.
1 - The AH is overloaded and slow due to being at max capacity. 2 - I often can't post items because it's overloaded 3 - it creates an environment where people post things at prices where they simply won't sell
This situation is artificially created due to the lack of any consequences for posting items at ridiculous prices.
Why don't real world stores just sell items for 10x what they are worth? Because they have overhead and monthly expenses that they need to cover so they HAVE to sell a minimum amount of items to just cover their costs.
How do you explain the existence of print cartridge filling services? The original print liquids costs nothing and is sold for more than gold per ounce.
Nevertheless, you still have not explained why no AH posting fee for VIP bothers you. Are you having a problem as a buyer (AH customer) or poster (AH seller) perspective?
I've tried several of those cartridge refilling services and the ink ends up clogging the printer head. They exist because of the crazy markup on ink such that it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to keep buying the ink.
I thought I was clear on why no posting fees bother me.
1 - The AH is overloaded and slow due to being at max capacity. 2 - I often can't post items because it's overloaded 3 - it creates an environment where people post things at prices where they simply won't sell
To sum it up, your service is bad, bc the hardware is bad and you solution is, to take from other players services they paid for, so you will have, hopefully, a better service.
I almost forgot, ppl post things at prices you deem unrealistic and that offends you, too. Why?
1 - The AH is overloaded and slow due to being at max capacity. 2 - I often can't post items because it's overloaded 3 - it creates an environment where people post things at prices where they simply won't sell
ad 1 - I'd say the AH was neither faster nor slower than a week after beta release. please tell me more about the AH maximum capacity. It only lists the 400 cheapest items, true, but your feud is rather with high than low prices. ad 2 - just ... what? Really? This never happened to me. What error is produced when this happens? Is the item lost? And you can only post 40 or so item on the AH, afaik this includes items in your inbox associated with the AH. But this is your problem, not the AH maximum capacity. as 3 - again, if you know the best price for an item to sell it will sell at that price if there is demand. Any undercutting VIP seller will have to post below your price and lose on income, as he still has to pay the 10% AH cut. People without VIP won't list items for insane prices. Not often anyway.
If possible please describe the items that bother you and tell me your prefered price, also if it bother you as seller or buyer. I try to understand why VIP is the issue, but so far I failed to do so.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
This thread goes down the same path and about 10 posts down someone describes exactly what happened to the AH prices for legendary mounts with examples, right after VIP was introduced.
LOL i have to stop can not believe so many think no posting fee does not hurt the market. Not sure how long they have been playing or how much they have used auction house in the past when there was a posting fee. But it is why every new items that comes out is extremely devalued within the first couple days now.Except for a few legendary items that whales will rob from new player on the fact they have no choice but to let it go cheap or risk losing AD from fees .Then they can just keep the price high on them items after market settles.
Well, I play since beta, so I know how it was before and after VIP. IMO not the posting fee is 'ruining' prices, but VIP keys. Everyone and his mom has VIP, so drops are more common then before, exept legendary mounts and some other items.
What is a 'whale' in your opinion 50kk, 100kk or +200kk ADs? Why should anyone be forced to sell under price to 'whales'? Did you ever trade in high value items, lets say 10kk+? First ppl traded them for lockbox keys or GMOPs. Then keys were BOA and ppl lost millions. Then GMOPs went from 100k to 25k to 17k and ppl lost millions more. To skip AH cut most things get traded for other items, R12s, weapon enchants etc.
AH is just advertisement most of the time. When the AH cut is 2-4 kk ppl tend to trade for things they can use or sell for a profit.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
Free market economy. There is nothing stopping me from posting any item at any value I wish, posting fee or not.
That's where you're wrong. If you post an item for 40M at 10% posting fee you run the risk of a 4M loss if it doesn't sell, so you need to malke damn sure it will sell for that amount or post it lower. You are, of course free to waste 4M of your ad, they are yours after all, just don't pretend the fee wouldn't make a difference in your posting behavior.
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
If anyone thinks that VIP is causing problems with the AH they can open 2000 lockboxes to have a decent CHANCE at a legendary mount. That's 100 million AD.
VIP is actually putting downward pressure on items like legendary mounts because people can undercut each other quickly.
That calc is trash and you know it. The net average of lockbox yields is 338 AD, considering the last 9 types of lockboxes. Out of those the by far worst pick is the runic lockbox with a 10K net deficit. The best ist the new life lockbox with a 14K net surplus.
Now, granted those are numbers assuming a large series and selling the contents in the most efficient way possible, but since you brought up 2K lockboxes, we can assume a normal distribution and an average yield over the series. So 2K lockboxes are a 676,000 AD net surplus. I really hate these silly arguments "meh, the drop rate is so low, that's why the prices are so high!" and "I need to open athousand lockboxes that costs me a thousand keys" as if there was no net profit off these keys. It's ridculous. You are either utterly incompetent, economics wise or you are a willful and dishonest liar!
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
Nothing stopping you ???? I am sure after you start losing AD from posting fees and others undercutting you.There would be a stop to all the senseless undercuts and you would post with a little more integrity or you just would not post it again as to not risk the loss of more AD.
Hate to break it to you, but 1) you have no right to question my integrity. 2) I post items in the same manner post-VIP as I did pre-VIP.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Those items in the Auction House are Market Price. In short, if you really think it's EASY to obtain Legendary Mounts/Epic Mounts etc, then feel free to open Lockboxes yourselves to get one.
The most expensive item I got from lockboxes is a 300k armor enchant. That armor enchant was worth 100k a month ago. The price went down real fast. In average, you get about 7k to 20k from each box.
How much AD do you think you need to get a 1m+ Epic mount or 20m+ Legendary?
But inconveniencing VIP holders and punishing item owners just so you get items much cheaper doesn't make anyone less or more 'greedy'. In short, you're no different from the rest.
If you really think these 'expensive' items aren't worth 20m or 40m or more, then spend 1m, 5m, 10m in keys to acquire one or two. But of course you won't.
(Meanwhile, players are running dungeons freely and acquiring salvage items freely without any form of posting fee, competition or taxes.) If they add posting fees to VIP then dungeons should have 'entrance' fees too, right? Twenty slots per hour auctioned off. Players will bid 2k to get 5k off a dungeon if the system is changed. Make them fight off like animals like you want Auction House posting wars. Who wants that?
Dungeon keys is the fee.... my god all the new players have no clue how much better auction house was for making AD before VIP took over.
Been around NW since launch.
If Dungeon Keys is the fee, where is your 10% dungeon/skirmish AD tax or 10% salvage tax? And better yet, where is the 10% tax on buying items on the auction house?
The only problem I see is that many players don't understand what Market Price is. It's not dictated by sellers or buyers. It's dictated by sellers AND buyers, when they agree on a price.
If there are 10 players selling Legendary Mount x for 10m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 50m, 60m, 70m, 80m, 90m, 99m and If there are 10 players buying Legendary Mount x for 1m, 2m, 3m, 4m, 5m, 6m, 7m, 8m, 9m, 10m
Question: What's the Market Price of Legendary Mount x? Answer: 10m, because both seller and buyer agree on the price. That means:
The 9 players selling at OVER the market price is out of luck and failed to sell. Who's complaining? The 9 players buying at UNDER the market price is out of luck and failed to buy. Who's complaining?
On one extreme end, Buyers will bid 1 AD, 5AD, 10D, for an expensive item. They will fail because their offer is WAY BELOW the market price. Nobody calls them "greedy" or "abusive". On one extreme end, Sellers will post 40m, 70m, 99m, for an expensive item. They will fail because their offer is WAY OVER the market price. You all call them "greedy" and "abusive".
If anyone is really hell bent on punishing VIP sellers with posting fees, then punish the buyer too.
Any buyers trying to peruse the Auction House will be charged with a Perusal Fee.
To which you will say (i'm sure): 'You can't extort Perusal Fees from me until I buy something. I own these Astral Diamonds and will only buy at the price I want!"
To which sellers will say (i'm sure): 'You can't extort Posting Fees from me until I sell something. I own these merchandise and will only sell at the price I want'.
Exactly.
Besides, the only reason why there is posting fee is to stop Botters from: 1) spamming the auction house. 2) laundering AD. Any botter trying to laundering AD will have partner account sell trash for, say 10m, will have to come up with posting fees first.
Cryptic is comfortable with waiving the posting fees from VIP because by logic, VIP players aren't botters.
In conclusion, I don't know why players who want to buy below the market price is criticizing players who want to sell at above the market price. I repeat from my first post in this thread, you are no different from everyone else. Calling players who sell at over the market price "greedy" and "abusive" while trying to buy at below the market price is a form of delusion.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Hey @zerappus : why do you think VIP players can't be botters?
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
In conclusion, I don't know why players who want to buy below the market price is criticizing players who want to sell at above the market price. I repeat from my first post in this thread, you are no different from everyone else. Calling players who sell at over the market price "greedy" and "abusive" while trying to buy at below the market price is a form of delusion.
I guess it's the logic (?) that a VIP player can re-prize an item, while others can't without incurring a loss. (Do I hear an "unfair!" in the distance?) Point is, if you enter an auction with a reasonable prize it will most likely sell. A VIP player won't undercut you for long as their item can only be sold once.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Hey @zerappus : why do you think VIP players can't be botters?
I think this "can't" is more of a "are unlikely". I guess it's a question of maximizing efficiency. Ofc gold sellers (botters) can buy VIP, but it the account is banned a money laundering company will lose their investment of CPU time into creating the account.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Here's one option: Cryptic should change the AH to become like Real World AHs. They charge both the buyer AND seller a fee for completed sales. So sellers will have to hand over the 10% fee from the final selling price and buyers will have to find an additional 10% on top of the price they paid. That's how it works in the Real World, so it should be the same in NW.....right >:)
Meanwhile, NW/Cryptic are following the eBay 'auction' approach. While there are nominally listing fees to post things on their 'auction' site, in reality they have almost disappeared. If you take out an eBay basic shop, you can list 100 items each month for no listing fee in return for paying a flat monthly fee. Sound like something we have in NW perhaps ? Actually, eBay are now giving sellers access to an 'Only pay fees when you sell something' scheme where you don't even have to have a shop or pay anything. So another successful Real World solution that could be applied to NW would be no listing fees for anyone with or without VIP.
If people are restricted from posting items at such high prices because the amount of AD for posting fee, this would set back balance to the auction house again, Example new item that I already seen sell on auction house for 900k, none was there about 12am last night some VIPer comes along post 1 for 12million and everyone else follows suit, lol this is ridiculous and really needs to be stopped, please remove the No Posting fee for VIPers Thank you
The player has the right to post the item on the AH for what ever price he wants. Other players has no right to dictate the value of the item that they wish to sell. You only options is to buy it or refuse to buy it for the price the user wants for it.
If anyone thinks that VIP is causing problems with the AH they can open 2000 lockboxes to have a decent CHANCE at a legendary mount. That's 100 million AD.
VIP is actually putting downward pressure on items like legendary mounts because people can undercut each other quickly.
That calc is trash and you know it. The net average of lockbox yields is 338 AD, considering the last 9 types of lockboxes. Out of those the by far worst pick is the runic lockbox with a 10K net deficit. The best ist the new life lockbox with a 14K net surplus.
Now, granted those are numbers assuming a large series and selling the contents in the most efficient way possible, but since you brought up 2K lockboxes, we can assume a normal distribution and an average yield over the series. So 2K lockboxes are a 676,000 AD net surplus. I really hate these silly arguments "meh, the drop rate is so low, that's why the prices are so high!" and "I need to open athousand lockboxes that costs me a thousand keys" as if there was no net profit off these keys. It's ridculous. You are either utterly incompetent, economics wise or you are a willful and dishonest liar!
The point is that you have to be able to put a large amount of AD into it upfront otherwise you're looking at a net loss. Even with New Life over 70% of your keys are going to be a net loss until you hit the items with low drop rates.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
Comments
Furthermore, elimination of posting fees is more likely to help lower prices than not, as it liquidifies resources, making it easier and more efficient to convert and transfer forms of wealth. If you ever noticed how rich people tend to take out loans for stuff, and wonder "oh, yeah, because you really needed a million dollar loan when you're worth 15 billion, pfffft", then (1) stop being such a kitten and relax, there are more mature ways to handle opinions on wealth, and (2) this happens because most of their wealth is tied up in non-liquid resources (property and stocks, for example), which cannot be easily converted into money, so they get loans which are backed by the value of those non-liquid resources and is paid back over time as resources are slowly converted into cash. There's no loan system in-game. I can't walk up to the Bank, offer a legendary mount as collateral and have it spit out a few (dozen) million AD for me. An AH that is less punishing in converting high value items into currency is a good thing; posting fees are a severe and steep risk on slow moving, high value items.
Moderator edited bad word that the profanity filter didn't catch.
There are 2 different problems at play. Undercutting is not an issue in my opinion. But basically the problem as stated for undercutting is that someone can just keep pulling their item off the market (with no consequence) and relisting it lower and lower.
To me this isn't a problem because if there was enough demand for the items in the first place you wouldn't need to undercut.
The real issue with no posting fees is that people are overloading the AH and using it as a dumping ground with no consequences because there is no fee. As such, they are posting items for 10x what they are worth and they are NOT selling and the seller doesn't care.
The only way I can see getting around this issue is if they only allow you to post for "free" an item that is within 20% of the average price that item sold for.
And there is a very obvious consequence to undercutting: you're getting less for what you're selling. It's actively costing you AD regardless. So? Why do you care? Does it offend your delicate sensibilities to see overpriced items that have exactly no relevance to you or your spending, or anyone else's for that matter? Woe is you. I suggest you get over it.
"But, daddy, somewhere somebody is eating an Oreo WRONG! RAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEE!" --this is you
Nevertheless, you still have not explained why no AH posting fee for VIP bothers you.
Are you having a problem as a buyer (AH customer) or poster (AH seller) perspective?
poster (AH seller) perspective:
The only scenario why you could have a problem was if everybody except you has VIP and there is one useless purple mount in the AH for 20m. You want to sell your new purple mount and try to rip off an innocent noow who does not know the value of the mount abd put it up at 19m. Now the VIP reposts his mount for 18m. rinse and repeat, you have costs, the VIP not. NOT FAIR says some unknown source.
If you had put up your mount for real FAIR value the VIP might have undercut you, but he also would have sold his mount very fast, and then your mount would be sold very fast as well.
So, are you jealous that you can not rip off new players that do not know the worth of things?
buyer (AH customer) perspective:
there are only mounts for the (in your opinion insane) price of 20m+ on the AH.
You think this item should only sell (or you only want to buy) for 1m.
Now, don't you think there is a poster (AH seller) as the one described above in Faerun that has no VIP?
How often can he post his mount for more than 5m, until his funds run dry?
Do you fear that the overpriced 20m mount entices other non-VIP players to think that the not-so-valueable mount will now follow the VIP player and price his mount at 20m as well?
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HV set went from 7k each to +1.5kk, but sure, lets wait until the dime dropped for the last player before you raise the price.
If there is a change in supply and demand you should not have to wait until the prices went up % for % or fear, that the others are to slow and lose AD bc it took them a few days longer to realize.
When I sell high priced items there is a boatload of ppl pming me, telling me that my prices are to high and offering much less. Thing is, if I sell, I set the price, not the buyer, as long as I dont have to sell.
If I sell something for 100k, 1kk or 20kk AD and 20 ppl tell me, I wont sell it and offer less, I know, that at last 20 ppl are interested and I can wait for player number 21 paying what I asked for.
I could understand the OP if VIP was very difficult to obtain or gated behind a money paywall but it is not. You can buy your first month of VIP in two weeks after you get to level 70 and by only selling what you get with the daily key you can keep it up, get extra ad, extra dungeon keys, save costs at the Bazaar and AH and get a bunch of in-game improvements like instant teleports and accessibility to merchant, mail and bank from anywhere (it takes time to get them all but they come for free over time).
It is basically the first thing you should buy together with a Zen Market purple mount if you plan to play the game for more than a few weeks.
And it promotes undercutting that drives prices down. I agree that it may drive the price of some ultra-rare items up (rare enough that the undercutting process doesn't happen), but if you can spend 50kk ad for something most likely you can spend 70kk too....
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I thought I was clear on why no posting fees bother me.
1 - The AH is overloaded and slow due to being at max capacity.
2 - I often can't post items because it's overloaded
3 - it creates an environment where people post things at prices where they simply won't sell
I almost forgot, ppl post things at prices you deem unrealistic and that offends you, too. Why?
ad 2 - just ... what? Really? This never happened to me. What error is produced when this happens? Is the item lost? And you can only post 40 or so item on the AH, afaik this includes items in your inbox associated with the AH. But this is your problem, not the AH maximum capacity.
as 3 - again, if you know the best price for an item to sell it will sell at that price if there is demand. Any undercutting VIP seller will have to post below your price and lose on income, as he still has to pay the 10% AH cut. People without VIP won't list items for insane prices. Not often anyway.
If possible please describe the items that bother you and tell me your prefered price, also if it bother you as seller or buyer. I try to understand why VIP is the issue, but so far I failed to do so.
arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12836113?sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0%3D+17b6083d77c53ea59aae0d05ed919fe4d70f8635+1472513050+hmacsha1
What is a 'whale' in your opinion 50kk, 100kk or +200kk ADs? Why should anyone be forced to sell under price to 'whales'? Did you ever trade in high value items, lets say 10kk+? First ppl traded them for lockbox keys or GMOPs. Then keys were BOA and ppl lost millions. Then GMOPs went from 100k to 25k to 17k and ppl lost millions more. To skip AH cut most things get traded for other items, R12s, weapon enchants etc.
AH is just advertisement most of the time. When the AH cut is 2-4 kk ppl tend to trade for things they can use or sell for a profit.
Now, granted those are numbers assuming a large series and selling the contents in the most efficient way possible, but since you brought up 2K lockboxes, we can assume a normal distribution and an average yield over the series. So 2K lockboxes are a 676,000 AD net surplus. I really hate these silly arguments "meh, the drop rate is so low, that's why the prices are so high!" and "I need to open athousand lockboxes that costs me a thousand keys" as if there was no net profit off these keys. It's ridculous. You are either utterly incompetent, economics wise or you are a willful and dishonest liar!
If Dungeon Keys is the fee, where is your 10% dungeon/skirmish AD tax or 10% salvage tax? And better yet, where is the 10% tax on buying items on the auction house?
The only problem I see is that many players don't understand what Market Price is. It's not dictated by sellers or buyers. It's dictated by sellers AND buyers, when they agree on a price.
If there are 10 players selling Legendary Mount x for 10m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 50m, 60m, 70m, 80m, 90m, 99m and
If there are 10 players buying Legendary Mount x for 1m, 2m, 3m, 4m, 5m, 6m, 7m, 8m, 9m, 10m
Question: What's the Market Price of Legendary Mount x?
Answer: 10m, because both seller and buyer agree on the price. That means:
The 9 players selling at OVER the market price is out of luck and failed to sell. Who's complaining?
The 9 players buying at UNDER the market price is out of luck and failed to buy. Who's complaining?
On one extreme end, Buyers will bid 1 AD, 5AD, 10D, for an expensive item. They will fail because their offer is WAY BELOW
the market price. Nobody calls them "greedy" or "abusive".
On one extreme end, Sellers will post 40m, 70m, 99m, for an expensive item. They will fail because their offer is WAY OVER
the market price. You all call them "greedy" and "abusive".
If anyone is really hell bent on punishing VIP sellers with posting fees, then punish the buyer too.
Any buyers trying to peruse the Auction House will be charged with a Perusal Fee.
To which you will say (i'm sure): 'You can't extort Perusal Fees from me until I buy something. I own these Astral Diamonds and will only buy at the price I want!"
To which sellers will say (i'm sure): 'You can't extort Posting Fees from me until I sell something. I own these merchandise and will only sell at the price I want'.
Exactly.
Besides, the only reason why there is posting fee is to stop Botters from:
1) spamming the auction house.
2) laundering AD. Any botter trying to laundering AD will have partner account sell trash for, say 10m, will have to come up with posting fees first.
Cryptic is comfortable with waiving the posting fees from VIP because by logic, VIP players aren't botters.
In conclusion, I don't know why players who want to buy below the market price is criticizing players who want to sell at above the market price. I repeat from my first post in this thread, you are no different from everyone else. Calling players who sell at over the market price "greedy" and "abusive" while trying to buy at below the market price is a form of delusion.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Point is, if you enter an auction with a reasonable prize it will most likely sell. A VIP player won't undercut you for long as their item can only be sold once.
Meanwhile, NW/Cryptic are following the eBay 'auction' approach. While there are nominally listing fees to post things on their 'auction' site, in reality they have almost disappeared. If you take out an eBay basic shop, you can list 100 items each month for no listing fee in return for paying a flat monthly fee. Sound like something we have in NW perhaps ? Actually, eBay are now giving sellers access to an 'Only pay fees when you sell something' scheme where you don't even have to have a shop or pay anything. So another successful Real World solution that could be applied to NW would be no listing fees for anyone with or without VIP.
Dead🔪