Those 3 pics do illustrate the problem pretty well. The first is not so bad but the 2nd and 3rd shot is what my screen looks like. It's a shame the new content added an effect that makes players avoid it. I'm sure some will press on anyway but the whole time they will be thinking the developers did a bad job on implementation. I'm not sure what the patch did but to me it was a placebo. Also, there's no way it is a monitor issue because you can't screencap a bad display.
Well i took some more today, interestingly the one taken in the same spot as the later two in my last post is about as bad as the last one, but one taken less than a minute earlier while running upto that part of the map is just like yesterday's. I also noticed both those screenshots are lower resolution that mine, i wonder if resolution and maybe even AA mode affect things, need to go back and experiment.
The second one makes me think the in game brightness is dialled way up now i'm more awake and thinking, but again i know from my low contrast monitor days that sometimes games require you to dial the settings waay up or you can't see anything in darker area's, (for example the whole of throne of dwarven gods on my old monitor without a brightness setting of 1.5 or so would be pitch black i'm sure.
If the dev's have any old CRT's lying around, try hooking one of those up to a test machine.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
Again, I note that image (the third one) was done with all settings on Maximum. Here's one with the settings more reasonably set for my laptop: http://imgur.com/aFdnXzr
(Not in the same spot. I'll get a same-spot-same-weather shot when I have 10 minutes later this afternoon.)
Here some screenshots after the latest patch during the snow storm. At least for me, it's now better and acceptable. High quality settings, default video driver settings (AMD Radeon HD7870 - Driver16.8.2)
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
So I had the bright idea (pun intended) to, while I was on a machine that could handle maximum settings, do side by side screenshots on max and minimum.
EXACT SAME CHARACTER, SPOT, AND WEATHER, minimum settings:
EXACT SAME CHARACTER, SPOT, AND WEATHER, maximum settings:
As you can see, while playing at maximum settings on my overpowered desktop (Nvidia GTX1080), the zone is playable but a bit grey in fog. At minimum settings (like, on my laptop, which runs min settings smoothly and lets me play!) it's a whited-out mess that gives me a headache looking at the SCREENSHOT, let alone while playing.
And, again, the storm is better, in both cases. it's mostly the fog that's still awful, for me.
It'd be great to get some kind of acknowledgement someone has read these messages, seen the screenshots, and either understands there is still a problem or does not.
i doubt there will be any more changes , was on last night thought i would farm hes but had to log for my eyes started hurt and a headache i have a laptop with gpu intel hd3000 minimum settings, i understand if content was made for highend graphics if be the case i will stay out of new area,
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2016
It is much better for me, I was able to play for a few hours with no problems. Thanks for the quick fix, devs! Greatly appreciated!!!
I don't have the issue some are still experiencing with their gamma/brightness and so on. I do play at max settings except for I have Bloom disabled. Bloom effects cause me migraines alone so, I have to have them disabled anyway. To those with current issues, check to see if your bloom setting is turned on, if so try disabling it and see if that helps. May want to disable post processing all together also and see if that helps too.
Hey Zeb - look at my screenshots, three posts up from yours. Turning settings *off* makes the problem *worse*, not better, because without any details to render, the game turns everything in Bryn Shander solid white.
The zone is only playable on very high settings, which one of my computers can handle but a lot of people's machines can't.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Hey Zeb - look at my screenshots, three posts up from yours. Turning settings *off* makes the problem *worse*, not better, because without any details to render, the game turns everything in Bryn Shander solid white.
The zone is only playable on very high settings, which one of my computers can handle but a lot of people's machines can't.
Have you tried just bloom and post processing? Those should not make "bright" effects worse... those settings, when turned on, increase such things. It makes no sense for just those two settings I mentioned to make the game brighter by turning just those off, as that goes completely against what they do. I didn't mention turning anything else down or off...
Hey Zeb - look at my screenshots, three posts up from yours. Turning settings *off* makes the problem *worse*, not better, because without any details to render, the game turns everything in Bryn Shander solid white.
The zone is only playable on very high settings, which one of my computers can handle but a lot of people's machines can't.
Have you tried just bloom and post processing? Those should not make "bright" effects worse... those settings, when turned on, increase such things. It makes no sense for just those two settings I mentioned to make the game brighter by turning just those off, as that goes completely against what they do. I didn't mention turning anything else down or off...
I think you've missed my point: When the settings are *low enough to play* on a slower/older machine, fog means the entire zone is blinding because it's all white. So you get a reasonable framerate of white-on-white-on-white with the occasional ice-blue highlights.
When the settings are very high, you can look at the fog without being blinded.... and unless you have a powerful machine, you'll count yourself lucky if you get 2fps once the animations start. Low graphics options are perfectly playable in every other zone in the game, but the fog effect in Bryn Shander specifically is still blinding, making the zone completely unplayable because it causes headaches and eyestrain, if you're running on a machine that can't handle keeping the frame rate up with higher graphics settings.
I watched the maintenance stream on the day when Storm Front was released, and I saw Andy Strumslinger play his toon in some foggy, blurred environment which made it almost impossible for me to recognize anything. After five minutes I had to stop the stream, for the same reason that are stated in the many posts before. Now, after the patch, I brought a 70 toon to Bryn Shandar after rescuing the 3 groups of citizens in Rothé Valley. Well, in RV everything was clear and visible, and BS greeted me with a still blurred area where I just cannot see sharp, except when standing directly in front of it. It took only a few minutes until my eyes started to tear, and I had to leave.
Not being able to see clear should be limited to effects, for example when being dazed, and it should not last longer than some seconds. But it should never be used as a permanent condition in a whole area. I don't know who designed this area; I haven't read through all the posts here. But I'm quite sure this person has studied only Game Design, not 3D-Modeling and Lighting. Not being able to see clear and sharp is a strain to the brain which tries to compensate it by re-adjusting the muscles around the eyeball, and since the blurred view comes from an external source, the brain does it over and over until the aches begin. Game designers should not mess with such sensible organs.
I recommend to visit an area called "Winterspring". It is in a different MMORPG (a very old one, but still very frequented). The snow there is also bright white, but the visual effects do not affect eyes or the brain. Everything looks sharp, visible. That is how a winter scene should look like.
i doubt there will be any more changes , was on last night thought i would farm hes but had to log for my eyes started hurt and a headache i have a laptop with gpu intel hd3000 minimum settings, i understand if content was made for highend graphics if be the case i will stay out of new area,
Interesting. Mine is Intel HD on minimum settings as well.
I recommend to visit an area called "Winterspring". It is in a different MMORPG (a very old one, but still very frequented). The snow there is also bright white, but the visual effects do not affect eyes or the brain. Everything looks sharp, visible. That is how a winter scene should look like.
Looking like any of the other zones in IWD would be great too.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Hey Zeb - look at my screenshots, three posts up from yours. Turning settings *off* makes the problem *worse*, not better, because without any details to render, the game turns everything in Bryn Shander solid white.
The zone is only playable on very high settings, which one of my computers can handle but a lot of people's machines can't.
Have you tried just bloom and post processing? Those should not make "bright" effects worse... those settings, when turned on, increase such things. It makes no sense for just those two settings I mentioned to make the game brighter by turning just those off, as that goes completely against what they do. I didn't mention turning anything else down or off...
I think you've missed my point: When the settings are *low enough to play* on a slower/older machine, fog means the entire zone is blinding because it's all white. So you get a reasonable framerate of white-on-white-on-white with the occasional ice-blue highlights.
When the settings are very high, you can look at the fog without being blinded.... and unless you have a powerful machine, you'll count yourself lucky if you get 2fps once the animations start. Low graphics options are perfectly playable in every other zone in the game, but the fog effect in Bryn Shander specifically is still blinding, making the zone completely unplayable because it causes headaches and eyestrain, if you're running on a machine that can't handle keeping the frame rate up with higher graphics settings.
No, you've missed my point, taking my comments to irrelevance. If you have settings on lowest to begin with, then my post is irrelevant to you as you'd have bloom and post processing disabled. Disabling two options has nothing to do with your rant about minimum settings. On the contrary, folks who would disable those two options would be folks who play on higher settings. Furthermore, the two settings I said have nothing to do with making things brighter when disabled. They should make things less bright when disabled and brighter when enabled. The only relevance would be if you were to try playing on higher settings and leave bloom and post processing disabled, especially since those are two settings that consume the most processing power.
So, for the sake of any further misunderstanding, I suggest to just look past my comment for it clearly does not pertain to your situation. That's not to diminish the issues and frustrations you, and others, are facing. It's just clear that disabling High Settings, such as Bloom and Post Processing, is irrelevant to those still having issues when playing on Low Settings, since those settings would already be disabled.
This long without a response and I guess it's safe to say they don't care whether we can see in BS or not. Remarkable.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
The original Blizzard was 'True to Life' and the new version is sort of like wintry storms I've seen driving in in Nordern Minnesnowta. The second is easier to navigate in.
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barbaraburnsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 34Arc User
It should look like IWD. I have never had problems with Icespire or IWD, that proves it is not a monitor issue. It is a GFX issue caused by too much white without contrasting colors and shadows, it is a white filter over what could be a beautiful zone.
I am vision impaired - lazy eye - I have been playing NW since before Icewind Dale and ICW happens to be my very favorite zone .. until NOW. I still love Caer Konig & Icewind Pass & Dwarven Valley. Until now, I have had no vision issues with this game.
BUT NOW ... even after your "fix" ... every time I go to Bryn, my eyestrain & headache issues get worse faster the more I am exposed to being there in what appears to be a moving blob with nearly no contrast on my screen ... I am fighting a major migraine now today after following a guild mate around & only doing 3 daily quests this morning.
I live in South Dakota where we get whiteout conditions all the time with winter snow & wind. Those do not give me eyestrain or headaches. I love to watch it snow and I was looking forward to a pretty, appealing snow globe effect - but that is not what I got.
Several of us need an option for it to look like IWD or Icespire so we can comfortably play the zone.
Something that can be tried as a temporary fix, until the developers make a real fix, is to try sunglasses. This was a suggestion I made in our guilds voice chat the other night, which was greeted by some giggles. But one of our guildys had a pair of yellow/orange colored glasses, put them on and found that it helped. You might try other types, black polarized, blue blocker red, etc., and see if they help. After all sunglasses are used in places where you have a lot of snow and ice glare, so they may work for this game as well. Besides what do you have to lose by trying at least? Hope this helps some till the real fix is found.
Something that can be tried as a temporary fix, until the developers make a real fix, is to try sunglasses.
Thank you so much Payday is next Friday so planning to try this then .. being older and on a fixed income means I have to wait sometimes even for simple things in life like sunglasses.
There is also a software program for me to try too that sounds similar to what sunglasses do ... I am waiting to hear back from a friend to know if the software helps him or not since he has some vision issues similar to mine and is also having terrible headaches from the new zone.
I suspect that my constant re-focusing issues will not go away from either but am very willing to try With my particular vision problems, I have always had focusing issues and aging has only worsened them. If my problem were just the glare ..... sigh ... I would have more hope.
I cannot do the new content unless they fix it to look like ICW or give us a way to turn the "50 shades of moving blob on my screen" off. For now, I will avoid Bryn until the next "maybe a solution" trial.
Edited to add this great explanation of what I suspect I am experiencing - what is happening on the screen in game for me is what my bad eye sees if I close the good one:
I agree it is hard on the eyes causing strain the movement of the snow particles images on a computer screen are created by combinations of tiny points of light (pixels), which are brightest at the center and diminish in intensity toward their edges. This makes it more difficult for our eyes to maintain focus on them. Instead, our eyes want to drift to a reduced level of focusing called the "resting point of accommodation" or RPA. Our eyes involuntarily move to the RPA and then strain to regain focus on the screen. This continuous flexing of the eyes' focusing muscles creates the fatigue and eye strain. (it gets harder to refocus as you age which escalates the problem)
Post edited by barbaraburns on
Hope you have a great day!
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barbaraburnsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 34Arc User
I downloaded this free software and used the halogen setting - it helped me marginally with the contrast issues but not enuf.
I personally did not notice much difference in Bryn Shander today from when I went there before whatever changes they made during maintenance today.
I managed to do the guard quest in Bryn Shander before the migraine pain from my eyes constantly trying to refocus forced me out of the place.
I will NOT be trying to do any more quests in Bryn Shander. This is a dealbreaker issue for me - I do NOT play a game to get sick.
I have things to do in our stronghold ... BUT ... Neverwinter just became a very low priority in my gaming life .. I can only do so many influence runs, edemo & Tiamat raids on 3 lvl 70 almost all campaigns completed toons before being totally bored. My 6 to 8 hours per day of game play just dropped drastically to perhaps 2 hours a day to spend time with my friends.
Being retired and having a monthly game budget, I am now looking at my alternatives. I am sad to consider throwing away 3 years of playing this game but I do not want or need "preventable" migraines in my life.
I hope the changes were enough to help other people so they can now play the zone comfortaly but I do not ever expect it to be playable for me after what I experienced there today.
So I finally grunt, squinted, and headached my first character through BS to arrive at the next zone which is beautiful. Which means all the grunting, squinting, and headaches were completely unnecessary and were done only in the service of programmer vanity. That's ridiculous!
The thought of having to fight the rest of my nearly two dozens characters through that zone is nearly unbearable. What part of 'Just make BS look like the other zones' was too hard to understand? omg smh
I'll send them the bill for my next eye appointment.
Comments
The second one makes me think the in game brightness is dialled way up now i'm more awake and thinking, but again i know from my low contrast monitor days that sometimes games require you to dial the settings waay up or you can't see anything in darker area's, (for example the whole of throne of dwarven gods on my old monitor without a brightness setting of 1.5 or so would be pitch black i'm sure.
If the dev's have any old CRT's lying around, try hooking one of those up to a test machine.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
http://imgur.com/aFdnXzr
(Not in the same spot. I'll get a same-spot-same-weather shot when I have 10 minutes later this afternoon.)
High quality settings, default video driver settings (AMD Radeon HD7870 - Driver16.8.2)
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
EXACT SAME CHARACTER, SPOT, AND WEATHER, minimum settings:
EXACT SAME CHARACTER, SPOT, AND WEATHER, maximum settings:
As you can see, while playing at maximum settings on my overpowered desktop (Nvidia GTX1080), the zone is playable but a bit grey in fog. At minimum settings (like, on my laptop, which runs min settings smoothly and lets me play!) it's a whited-out mess that gives me a headache looking at the SCREENSHOT, let alone while playing.
And, again, the storm is better, in both cases. it's mostly the fog that's still awful, for me.
Buellor?
It'd be great to get some kind of acknowledgement someone has read these messages, seen the screenshots, and either understands there is still a problem or does not.
I don't have the issue some are still experiencing with their gamma/brightness and so on. I do play at max settings except for I have Bloom disabled. Bloom effects cause me migraines alone so, I have to have them disabled anyway. To those with current issues, check to see if your bloom setting is turned on, if so try disabling it and see if that helps. May want to disable post processing all together also and see if that helps too.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The zone is only playable on very high settings, which one of my computers can handle but a lot of people's machines can't.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
When the settings are very high, you can look at the fog without being blinded.... and unless you have a powerful machine, you'll count yourself lucky if you get 2fps once the animations start. Low graphics options are perfectly playable in every other zone in the game, but the fog effect in Bryn Shander specifically is still blinding, making the zone completely unplayable because it causes headaches and eyestrain, if you're running on a machine that can't handle keeping the frame rate up with higher graphics settings.
Not being able to see clear should be limited to effects, for example when being dazed, and it should not last longer than some seconds. But it should never be used as a permanent condition in a whole area. I don't know who designed this area; I haven't read through all the posts here. But I'm quite sure this person has studied only Game Design, not 3D-Modeling and Lighting. Not being able to see clear and sharp is a strain to the brain which tries to compensate it by re-adjusting the muscles around the eyeball, and since the blurred view comes from an external source, the brain does it over and over until the aches begin. Game designers should not mess with such sensible organs.
I recommend to visit an area called "Winterspring". It is in a different MMORPG (a very old one, but still very frequented). The snow there is also bright white, but the visual effects do not affect eyes or the brain. Everything looks sharp, visible. That is how a winter scene should look like.
So, for the sake of any further misunderstanding, I suggest to just look past my comment for it clearly does not pertain to your situation. That's not to diminish the issues and frustrations you, and others, are facing. It's just clear that disabling High Settings, such as Bloom and Post Processing, is irrelevant to those still having issues when playing on Low Settings, since those settings would already be disabled.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
BUT NOW ... even after your "fix" ... every time I go to Bryn, my eyestrain & headache issues get worse faster the more I am exposed to being there in what appears to be a moving blob with nearly no contrast on my screen ... I am fighting a major migraine now today after following a guild mate around & only doing 3 daily quests this morning.
I live in South Dakota where we get whiteout conditions all the time with winter snow & wind. Those do not give me eyestrain or headaches. I love to watch it snow and I was looking forward to a pretty, appealing snow globe effect - but that is not what I got.
Several of us need an option for it to look like IWD or Icespire so we can comfortably play the zone.
There is also a software program for me to try too that sounds similar to what sunglasses do ... I am waiting to hear back from a friend to know if the software helps him or not since he has some vision issues similar to mine and is also having terrible headaches from the new zone.
I suspect that my constant re-focusing issues will not go away from either but am very willing to try
I cannot do the new content unless they fix it to look like ICW or give us a way to turn the "50 shades of moving blob on my screen" off. For now, I will avoid Bryn until the next "maybe a solution" trial.
Edited to add this great explanation of what I suspect I am experiencing - what is happening on the screen in game for me is what my bad eye sees if I close the good one:
https://justgetflux.com/
I personally did not notice much difference in Bryn Shander today from when I went there before whatever changes they made during maintenance today.
I managed to do the guard quest in Bryn Shander before the migraine pain from my eyes constantly trying to refocus forced me out of the place.
I will NOT be trying to do any more quests in Bryn Shander. This is a dealbreaker issue for me - I do NOT play a game to get sick.
I have things to do in our stronghold ... BUT ... Neverwinter just became a very low priority in my gaming life .. I can only do so many influence runs, edemo & Tiamat raids on 3 lvl 70 almost all campaigns completed toons before being totally bored. My 6 to 8 hours per day of game play just dropped drastically to perhaps 2 hours a day to spend time with my friends.
Being retired and having a monthly game budget, I am now looking at my alternatives. I am sad to consider throwing away 3 years of playing this game but I do not want or need "preventable" migraines in my life.
I hope the changes were enough to help other people so they can now play the zone comfortaly but I do not ever expect it to be playable for me after what I experienced there today.
The thought of having to fight the rest of my nearly two dozens characters through that zone is nearly unbearable. What part of 'Just make BS look like the other zones' was too hard to understand? omg smh
I'll send them the bill for my next eye appointment.