Can someone tell me if the stronghold power boon is counted as base power or not ? If yes, 30k is easily reachable If not, I think it's still possible, full radiant r12, 4 +1000power artifact, 4 set pieces with max power, base power ring, power insignias, and you should be good.
ok, correct me if I am wrong, but it is BASE power. That to me means no special buffs, so maybe just boons, radiant 12, 4 artifacts and basic stats of gear. It would almost seem like it is better to stack crit then power. Too bad it doesnt work with that weapons of light feat.
What do you mean ? All I've listed is base power. And for guild boons, I have never had one, so I don't know if it's base power like campaign boons or not.
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jeffsliderMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 112Arc User
Ok, after fooling around with this path for a little bit, I am really regretting spending the money to respec. I don't know what it is, but I just don't feel like I am carrying my weight. I really don't want to delete this char as it would be a significant waste of money, but I may have no choice unless someone can make some recommendations for me. I read you are supposed to have a base power of 30k, but I don't see how that number is even possible to achieve. Unless you have perfect everything and every single boon that deals with power, even then I don't think 30k is possible. I think I am going to go back to virt or maybe try faithful next. Damn all you whinny little buttholes who complained about bubble paladin, damn you all to hell.
How much is your power?. You know some commented about having at least 30k base power for it to work. That doesn't ring true at all. I have friends and members of my guild that are in a comfy 20k-27k zone which is easy to achieve and they play this build pretty easily and those toons are their alts, only a couple really main the DC. Shoot, my guild runs CN test for people who apply to us and when a DC applies who happens to be AC righteous, I switch to my HR to observe & I can tell you the majority isn't even remotely 30k power+ and they excel so maybe for you the mechanics are not that good/you lack recovery/ap gain or you're actually doing well/ok but are overly judging yourself. I see as well you were a pure healer before so maybe you're one of those who are trying buffs for the first time from pure healing and are just not accustom to that full buff style of play because as a pure healer, you're accustom seeing high heal numbers and maybe it's not as high for you as you want as righteous, which is ok since righteous isn't a pure healing tree. I just have to understand your style more to really give a good answer. I'll say one thing, the more power is the better fpr a DC but I don't want people feeling like if you have under 30k power that 'Omg, I'm never gonna succeed trying this.'
Can someone tell me if the stronghold power boon is counted as base power or not ?
On Xbox, yes. I would assume it's still a yes on PC as the SH boon didn't have anything to do with the WoL power looping that was patched.
Member of Look Good Play Good Pup - Level 70 4.2k Buff/Debuff AC DC XBL GT: TehPuppy
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
The decision of running this build vs another with 30K power is based on using AA vs HG. Can AA give you the 40% dps boost that HG does? That doesn't mean the build is flawed at less than 30K, just use a different daily until you reach that point. AA and HG do different things so its also important to understand what each does and when the appropriate time is to use them. If your only talking about the boost to dps. Then maybe you won't use it very much.
This build is the for DC with high il, where your base power is high enough to make AA more powerful than HG. However, dont panic if you cant reach that high of base power. If your teammates have bonding stones, you still can perform well with lower base power, but that only give the same buff output with the other low il DCs using HG and if and only if your teammates have high level of bondings. In short, if your il is low, use HG, if you are rich, get a snail, radiants r12 and whatever AP/recovery things you can get and use this build. At that time you are one of the best damage multiplier in NW. GL.
Wait guys, if you’re saying that with 30k Power AA is stronger than HG even if the target has no bondings, that’s not true (unless the ally has almost 0 Power). You can imagine Power as a big unique buff: AA is just adding a piece to that buff, while HG is buffing everything. That’s why AA is less effective if the target’s Power is already high. Actually, if your allies haven’t bonding runestones, AA damage increase is never higher than HG in practical dungeons situations. Anyway you should also consider that if you’re using Hastening Light you can provide a better cooldown reduction with AA, both because you can spam it more frequently and because when hitting mobs with AA the cooldown reduction is doubled (it’s a bug, but whatever). Furthermore, AA provides control immunity and that’s helpful when fighiting Akar Kessell (also with Lostmauth, but his hitbox is so big that it’s almost impossible to buff all allies). And last but not least, AA follows allies, so if they are quickly running through pulls of mobs it lasts longer. For example, at the beginning of eToS there are two pulls of mob and if you cast HG at the first one, your allies will have no daily at the second one. Sure, they could lure all mobs in a spot before killing them, but that’s up to them. (It’s funny because, despite all these reflexions, when I pug skirmishes I often rush ahead and buff only myself, but that’s just to troll the party.)
I'm 4K PvE AC DC, but I've "only" 23K power (without the barracks boon). It's a matter of choice because I prefer to have more armor penetration from the stable (or temple, don't remember) than power, given that the power boost is provided by my companion + rk 12 bonding runestones. I share many aspects of the build from @jeffslider and his philofophy, but I opted for some variations here and there (many come from the history of my toon): Wis+Cha instead of WiS+Str, GoH, twisted weapons instead of the holy burning symbol, Timat Set, Vanguard banner as main artifact, owlbear cub <- I love this, even if bugged with some encounters. When soloing, no story: AA forever. My power goes up to 110K (down from ~160k in Mod 9) and that's it.
When I'm in a party, everything is managed by experience. When I play with the team mates I know (meaning that I know if they have bonding runestones or not, what kind of equipment they have, feats etc), I alternate AA and HG depending on the situation. When pugging, I prefer to follow a more conservative approach, always casting AA supported by my ~100% AP gain (so I don't need the snail, Burning Holy Symbol, DC artifact..they can be removed from my perspective): maybe it doesn't max the dps, but it's a very flexible daily and the survavibility is guarateed most of the times without healing a lot. Currently I'm very happy of my setup as it gives me a lot of flexibility despite I'm rightoeus: decent dps, good heals when needed, good buff, good mitigation.
That said, it's easy to give advices when I sit on a 4k toon. Honestly when I'm asked to give an opinion on how to play the DC at lower level, I just provide a few basic guidelines because imo the playstyle of the player is the main driver. There are players who prefer survivability (for whatever reason, and many times they have good reasons) instead of being a buff machine: in this case I suggest to play the mid-range area (from 2.0k to 2.8/3.0k) as virtuous/faithful and then rework the DC later (but it's a quite expensive choice). Furthermore they don't do damages and the daily quests are often a nightmare. There are other players who want to be buffer/dps DC from the beginning and in this case I suggest them to read this forum ( @putzboy78. good job), but usally they don't have an easy life in the 2k - 2.5k range for the opposite reasons: relatively low survivability, low heals, but faster when soloing. The worst thing for a low IL buffer is to play in a group that doesn't know what a buffer is/does: so be careful when you join a group. So whatever decision you take, there's always a toll to be paid during the progression of the toon: it's not everything black or white.
Post edited by rapo973 on
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
The DC community rocks. I have a similar build to rapo but no owlbear cub, 3.4 ilvl (for another week or so), etc. I enjoy being able to choose AA or HG whenever I want. As mentioned above when rolling through mobs is easier to pop AA and let it follow you. On a big boss fight like Orcus HG is better.
AA also let's many parties I've been in run without a tank. A GWF I play with lives my AA, especially on Orcus where the big may target him more. For me AA isn't just about the DPS, it's all the utility and versatility of it as well.
I still bring the DC sigil which almost 100% of the time I cast immediately after HG so I can still refill AP.
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jeffsliderMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 112Arc User
I'm 4K PvE AC DC, but I've "only" 23K power (without the barracks boon). It's a matter of choice because I prefer to have more armor penetration from the stable (or temple, don't remember) than power, given that the power boost is provided by my companion + rk 12 bonding runestones. I share many aspects of the build from @jeffslider and his philofophy, but I opted for some variations here and there (many come from the history of my toon): Wis+Cha instead of WiS+Str, GoH, twisted weapons instead of the holy burning symbol, Timat Set, Vanguard banner as main artifact, owlbear cub <- I love this, even if bugged with some encounters. When soloing, no story: AA forever. My power goes up to 110K (down from ~160k in Mod 9) and that's it.
When I'm in a party, everything is managed by experience. When I play with the team mates I know (meaning that I know if they have bonding runestones or not, what kind of equipment they have, feats etc), I alternate AA and HG depending on the situation. When pugging, I prefer to follow a more conservative approach, always casting AA supported by my ~100% AP gain (so I don't need the snail, Burning Holy Symbol, DC artifact..they can be removed from my perspective): maybe it doesn't max the dps, but it's a very flexible daily and the survavibility is guarateed most of the times without healing a lot. Currently I'm very happy of my setup as it gives me a lot of flexibility despite I'm rightoeus: decent dps, good heals when needed, good buff, good mitigation.
That said, it's easy to give advices when I sit on a 4k toon. Honestly when I'm asked to give an opinion on how to play the DC at lower level, I just provide a few basic guidelines because imo the playstyle of the player is the main driver. There are players who prefer survivability (for whatever reason, and many times they have good reasons) instead of being a buff machine: in this case I suggest to play the mid-range area (from 2.0k to 2.8/3.0k) as virtuous/faithful and then rework the DC later (but it's a quite expensive choice). Furthermore they don't do damages and the daily quests are often a nightmare. There are other players who want to be buffer/dps DC from the beginning and in this case I suggest them to read this forum ( @putzboy78. good job), but usally they don't have an easy life in the 2k - 2.5k range for the opposite reasons: relatively low survivability, low heals, but faster when soloing. The worst thing for a low IL buffer is to play in a group that doesn't know what a buffer is/does: so be careful when you join a group. So whatever decision you take, there's always a toll to be paid during the progression of the toon: it's not everything black or white.</p>
I can def agree with this, especially the 'so be careful when you join a group' if you're 2k-2.5k for just an example, you shouldn't be 'pugging'. In my guild, when one of my fellow friends started off his buffer and it was 2k, he wisely ran with groups that he's familiar with from the guild. Now, he's 3k or a little over. When he reached the 2.7k mark, he did actually pug a couple of stuff and adjusted to the situation. It's as we mostly say, it's the playstyle of the player. I myself, when I pug just for doing it sake, AA plays a huge part when I'm observing mainly the tank. People sometimes kinda forget that AA as well can along with that power boost, make your party barely get any sort of dmg when it's active. AA can def carry a subpar tank. That's why as well, I still feel like even if you don't have the '30k power' as long as you at least reached the 20k and so on mark, you can still be great. You'll still be giving some sort of power if you use AA (and if the party is using bonding/companions of course) & if you're using AA, you can at the same time protect your party, especially at orcus. And well I do believe now, most people will be 3.1k onwards on their DC whether or not it's the main/alt just because of fangbreaker island since you need to be 3.1k + for it. I know it's some time to unlock it but since we have double rp's coming up, I assume people will take the opportunity by the horns and get their clerics to 3.1k+ at least since I know most people have their clerics as alts and it will be at least around that 2k-2.8k range
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Yeah, I guess we weren't overly clear in the response with the 30K power thing. It's more a rule of thumb but you have to use your experience and knowledge of the group to determine when to use AA vs HG. Since power doesn't result in a flat dps increase the more base power your target has the more power you need to give him in order to reach that 40% damage increase threshold.
I can say as a Righteous, I never pug queue any dungeon I don't feel I can basically solo on my own (can't quite solo anything but with a few people to distract bosses, T1s and skirmishes are pretty trivial). I will LFG pug but I make it clear that either the tank needs to be able to live on DG or we need a real healer. However, even then its usually okay because everything melts pretty fast and I can put in Astral Shield in a pinch.
One thing that is nice is going into content and knowing that dps is never really a factor. Since everyones dps is doubled things like edemo can still have issues for survive-ability for my team, but the dps is always there and enough of it to burn phase 2 without leaving the well.
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jeffsliderMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 112Arc User
Yeah, I guess we weren't overly clear in the response with the 30K power thing. It's more a rule of thumb but you have to use your experience and knowledge of the group to determine when to use AA vs HG. Since power doesn't result in a flat dps increase the more base power your target has the more power you need to give him in order to reach that 40% damage increase threshold.
I can say as a Righteous, I never pug queue any dungeon I don't feel I can basically solo on my own (can't quite solo anything but with a few people to distract bosses, T1s and skirmishes are pretty trivial). I will LFG pug but I make it clear that either the tank needs to be able to live on DG or we need a real healer. However, even then its usually okay because everything melts pretty fast and I can put in Astral Shield in a pinch.
One thing that is nice is going into content and knowing that dps is never really a factor. Since everyones dps is doubled things like edemo can still have issues for survive-ability for my team, but the dps is always there and enough of it to burn phase 2 without leaving the well.
I get that really and can agree with that. The knowledge & experience is key. I see now a days people are indeed giving clerics more of a go with DO and AC which is great to see and it's also good to see that some are really knowing when to use AA vs HG. As for pugging, I like the challenge to pug personally, even when I was like 3k, I would pug at times to give myself that challenge because mostly, when you run with your guild, it's always a smooth, melt run. Sure, those runs are great, but to constantly do that, I really feel like you have to switch things up if you get bored quickly and uninterested like how I personally get so the pugging is a nice change. Yea, they maybe some runs where you really get a ridiculous party that will melt just as fast as if you're with your guild but there are times you get people where you can see you'll have to be on your game to carry and I personally like that.
I still hate that in edemo, if you melt too quickly and you kill him during when you need to direct him somewhere, he can actually get bugged and you will get like bronze or something for that phase despite clearly killing him and it should have been gold.
Ok, after fooling around with this path for a little bit, I am really regretting spending the money to respec. I don't know what it is, but I just don't feel like I am carrying my weight. I really don't want to delete this char as it would be a significant waste of money, but I may have no choice unless someone can make some recommendations for me. I read you are supposed to have a base power of 30k, but I don't see how that number is even possible to achieve. Unless you have perfect everything and every single boon that deals with power, even then I don't think 30k is possible. I think I am going to go back to virt or maybe try faithful next. Damn all you whinny little buttholes who complained about bubble paladin, damn you all to hell.
How much is your power?. You know some commented about having at least 30k base power for it to work. That doesn't ring true at all. I have friends and members of my guild that are in a comfy 20k-27k zone which is easy to achieve and they play this build pretty easily and those toons are their alts, only a couple really main the DC. Shoot, my guild runs CN test for people who apply to us and when a DC applies who happens to be AC righteous, I switch to my HR to observe & I can tell you the majority isn't even remotely 30k power+ and they excel so maybe for you the mechanics are not that good/you lack recovery/ap gain or you're actually doing well/ok but are overly judging yourself. I see as well you were a pure healer before so maybe you're one of those who are trying buffs for the first time from pure healing and are just not accustom to that full buff style of play because as a pure healer, you're accustom seeing high heal numbers and maybe it's not as high for you as you want as righteous, which is ok since righteous isn't a pure healing tree. I just have to understand your style more to really give a good answer. I'll say one thing, the more power is the better fpr a DC but I don't want people feeling like if you have under 30k power that 'Omg, I'm never gonna succeed trying this.'
Hey man, thank you for replying. I see your point, I am used to high heal numbers, and that is what is making me feel like im not carrying my weight. Also my power is 17424 if I am reading it right. So I guess I still need time with it before I go and respec again. I will keep at it with this one, and maybe during the next double xp, I will create a devot paladin. Could it also be I am using the wrong pets? I managed to get an earth archon rare from a lockbox when I had VIP, so that is the companion I use. Maybe I should work on upgrading or replacing him too.
Either way thanks for your help I'll stick with it a while longer.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Ok, after fooling around with this path for a little bit, I am really regretting spending the money to respec. I don't know what it is, but I just don't feel like I am carrying my weight. I really don't want to delete this char as it would be a significant waste of money, but I may have no choice unless someone can make some recommendations for me. I read you are supposed to have a base power of 30k, but I don't see how that number is even possible to achieve. Unless you have perfect everything and every single boon that deals with power, even then I don't think 30k is possible. I think I am going to go back to virt or maybe try faithful next. Damn all you whinny little buttholes who complained about bubble paladin, damn you all to hell.
How much is your power?. You know some commented about having at least 30k base power for it to work. That doesn't ring true at all. I have friends and members of my guild that are in a comfy 20k-27k zone which is easy to achieve and they play this build pretty easily and those toons are their alts, only a couple really main the DC. Shoot, my guild runs CN test for people who apply to us and when a DC applies who happens to be AC righteous, I switch to my HR to observe & I can tell you the majority isn't even remotely 30k power+ and they excel so maybe for you the mechanics are not that good/you lack recovery/ap gain or you're actually doing well/ok but are overly judging yourself. I see as well you were a pure healer before so maybe you're one of those who are trying buffs for the first time from pure healing and are just not accustom to that full buff style of play because as a pure healer, you're accustom seeing high heal numbers and maybe it's not as high for you as you want as righteous, which is ok since righteous isn't a pure healing tree. I just have to understand your style more to really give a good answer. I'll say one thing, the more power is the better fpr a DC but I don't want people feeling like if you have under 30k power that 'Omg, I'm never gonna succeed trying this.'
Hey man, thank you for replying. I see your point, I am used to high heal numbers, and that is what is making me feel like im not carrying my weight. Also my power is 17424 if I am reading it right. So I guess I still need time with it before I go and respec again. I will keep at it with this one, and maybe during the next double xp, I will create a devot paladin. Could it also be I am using the wrong pets? I managed to get an earth archon rare from a lockbox when I had VIP, so that is the companion I use. Maybe I should work on upgrading or replacing him too.
Either way thanks for your help I'll stick with it a while longer.
Are you on PC? If so load ACT and record some of your runs. Check the efficiency ratings on your teammates. You will see what a difference you make in numbers and ACT won't show you what the buffs are doing, just the debuffs. So you are contributing whatever numbers you see plus the buffs. I register about 198% on average for efficiency. That means in general my party is getting a 98% boost to their dps.
Yeah, I guess we weren't overly clear in the response with the 30K power thing. It's more a rule of thumb but you have to use your experience and knowledge of the group to determine when to use AA vs HG. Since power doesn't result in a flat dps increase the more base power your target has the more power you need to give him in order to reach that 40% damage increase threshold.
I can say as a Righteous, I never pug queue any dungeon I don't feel I can basically solo on my own (can't quite solo anything but with a few people to distract bosses, T1s and skirmishes are pretty trivial). I will LFG pug but I make it clear that either the tank needs to be able to live on DG or we need a real healer. However, even then its usually okay because everything melts pretty fast and I can put in Astral Shield in a pinch.
One thing that is nice is going into content and knowing that dps is never really a factor. Since everyones dps is doubled things like edemo can still have issues for survive-ability for my team, but the dps is always there and enough of it to burn phase 2 without leaving the well.
I get that really and can agree with that. The knowledge & experience is key. I see now a days people are indeed giving clerics more of a go with DO and AC which is great to see and it's also good to see that some are really knowing when to use AA vs HG. As for pugging, I like the challenge to pug personally, even when I was like 3k, I would pug at times to give myself that challenge because mostly, when you run with your guild, it's always a smooth, melt run. Sure, those runs are great, but to constantly do that, I really feel like you have to switch things up if you get bored quickly and uninterested like how I personally get so the pugging is a nice change. Yea, they maybe some runs where you really get a ridiculous party that will melt just as fast as if you're with your guild but there are times you get people where you can see you'll have to be on your game to carry and I personally like that.
I still hate that in edemo, if you melt too quickly and you kill him during when you need to direct him somewhere, he can actually get bugged and you will get like bronze or something for that phase despite clearly killing him and it should have been gold.
I usually just throw together runs in alliance/crusaders chat and use AA 99.9% of the time because I'd rather have a smoother run than go a little bit faster if my party isn't going to screw up. Every time I use HG something dumb happens like the tank dying and I have to scramble to get AA up or waste my soulforged proc while reviving.
Yeah, I guess we weren't overly clear in the response with the 30K power thing. It's more a rule of thumb but you have to use your experience and knowledge of the group to determine when to use AA vs HG. Since power doesn't result in a flat dps increase the more base power your target has the more power you need to give him in order to reach that 40% damage increase threshold.
I can say as a Righteous, I never pug queue any dungeon I don't feel I can basically solo on my own (can't quite solo anything but with a few people to distract bosses, T1s and skirmishes are pretty trivial). I will LFG pug but I make it clear that either the tank needs to be able to live on DG or we need a real healer. However, even then its usually okay because everything melts pretty fast and I can put in Astral Shield in a pinch.
One thing that is nice is going into content and knowing that dps is never really a factor. Since everyones dps is doubled things like edemo can still have issues for survive-ability for my team, but the dps is always there and enough of it to burn phase 2 without leaving the well.
I get that really and can agree with that. The knowledge & experience is key. I see now a days people are indeed giving clerics more of a go with DO and AC which is great to see and it's also good to see that some are really knowing when to use AA vs HG. As for pugging, I like the challenge to pug personally, even when I was like 3k, I would pug at times to give myself that challenge because mostly, when you run with your guild, it's always a smooth, melt run. Sure, those runs are great, but to constantly do that, I really feel like you have to switch things up if you get bored quickly and uninterested like how I personally get so the pugging is a nice change. Yea, they maybe some runs where you really get a ridiculous party that will melt just as fast as if you're with your guild but there are times you get people where you can see you'll have to be on your game to carry and I personally like that.
I still hate that in edemo, if you melt too quickly and you kill him during when you need to direct him somewhere, he can actually get bugged and you will get like bronze or something for that phase despite clearly killing him and it should have been gold.
I usually just throw together runs in alliance/crusaders chat and use AA 99.9% of the time because I'd rather have a smoother run than go a little bit faster if my party isn't going to **** up. Every time I use HG something dumb happens like the tank dying and I have to scramble to get AA up or waste my soulforged proc while reviving.
That's what I'm finding more and more. I suppose it's situational:
AA: Better when clearing trash (since you can move with it), better for damage mitigation if anyone has any risk of falling down. If you resign yourself to spamming this, you can add some fun bonuses too (Hastening Light, Shepherd's Devotion, and feat it for more AP trickle). Also, it's spammable.
HG: Better for a stationary battleground. Likely gives better DPS and since it lasts so long it's good against lag/stun. The big caveat is that you can't gain AP while it's down, so it's not really spammable. Since the ITF interaction nerf in mod10, it's also not so significantly better than AA if your dps is rocking high level bondings.
If someone has 3x r12 bonding + legendary active, they are getting 4x the power aura. That's 1x directly + 2.85x bonding + 0.15x legendary active. If you optimize the passive power on your gear and from certain boons / insignia, your AA can potentially be putting out enough power buff to compete with HG. Especially fun if someone else is dropping HG on top of all that too
Ok, after fooling around with this path for a little bit, I am really regretting spending the money to respec. I don't know what it is, but I just don't feel like I am carrying my weight. I really don't want to delete this char as it would be a significant waste of money, but I may have no choice unless someone can make some recommendations for me. I read you are supposed to have a base power of 30k, but I don't see how that number is even possible to achieve. Unless you have perfect everything and every single boon that deals with power, even then I don't think 30k is possible. I think I am going to go back to virt or maybe try faithful next. Damn all you whinny little buttholes who complained about bubble paladin, damn you all to hell.
How much is your power?. You know some commented about having at least 30k base power for it to work. That doesn't ring true at all. I have friends and members of my guild that are in a comfy 20k-27k zone which is easy to achieve and they play this build pretty easily and those toons are their alts, only a couple really main the DC. Shoot, my guild runs CN test for people who apply to us and when a DC applies who happens to be AC righteous, I switch to my HR to observe & I can tell you the majority isn't even remotely 30k power+ and they excel so maybe for you the mechanics are not that good/you lack recovery/ap gain or you're actually doing well/ok but are overly judging yourself. I see as well you were a pure healer before so maybe you're one of those who are trying buffs for the first time from pure healing and are just not accustom to that full buff style of play because as a pure healer, you're accustom seeing high heal numbers and maybe it's not as high for you as you want as righteous, which is ok since righteous isn't a pure healing tree. I just have to understand your style more to really give a good answer. I'll say one thing, the more power is the better fpr a DC but I don't want people feeling like if you have under 30k power that 'Omg, I'm never gonna succeed trying this.'
Hey man, thank you for replying. I see your point, I am used to high heal numbers, and that is what is making me feel like im not carrying my weight. Also my power is 17424 if I am reading it right. So I guess I still need time with it before I go and respec again. I will keep at it with this one, and maybe during the next double xp, I will create a devot paladin. Could it also be I am using the wrong pets? I managed to get an earth archon rare from a lockbox when I had VIP, so that is the companion I use. Maybe I should work on upgrading or replacing him too.
Either way thanks for your help I'll stick with it a while longer.
Are you on PC? If so load ACT and record some of your runs. Check the efficiency ratings on your teammates. You will see what a difference you make in numbers and ACT won't show you what the buffs are doing, just the debuffs. So you are contributing whatever numbers you see plus the buffs. I register about 198% on average for efficiency. That means in general my party is getting a 98% boost to their dps.
Sadly it is xbox one only for me. I just realized that he recommended silvery enchantments for recovery, so I am going to try it out with rank 10 of those in all of the offense slot. Then work on getting my il up to 3k. Rank 10 of every gem, and me upgrading my artifacts to at least legend, should give me over 20k power. My guild is finaly starting to do Dragon flight, so I am now saving up seals and the fangs for that.
If it matters any, my typical rotation:
assuming I have no stacks of divinity, I open with divine glow, then hit forgemasters flame followed by three blessing of battle to build divinity. After I have full divinity, I use Break the spirit, divine glow, and forgemasters flame while in divinity mode. Once fully empowered I use break the spirit then rinse and repeat.
As mentioned earlier power is sitting just over 17,400. Il is just over 2.7k, and recovery sucks at just over 4000, so I guess I am still too noobish to fully shine with this. If you can recommend some better powers to use I am open to suggestions.
If it matters any, my typical rotation: assuming I have no stacks of divinity, I open with divine glow, then hit forgemasters flame followed by three blessing of battle to build divinity. After I have full divinity, I use Break the spirit, divine glow, and forgemasters flame while in divinity mode. Once fully empowered I use break the spirit then rinse and repeat. As mentioned earlier power is sitting just over 17,400. Il is just over 2.7k, and recovery sucks at just over 4000, so I guess I am still too noobish to fully shine with this. If you can recommend some better powers to use I am open to suggestions.
I think your IL is not the real problem. The rotation is fine, but I believe that you've to make clear what your goals are before thinking about what you want to do. I would suggest that you open a new post where you show your cleric, roll, stats, equipement, writing down your playstyle and your goals so that you can collect advices and suggestions. As an example: you cast 3x Blessing of Battle to recharge dinivity. That's not bad, but if your goal is to recharge dinivity as fast as you can, there are better solutions . If you have divine fortune 5/5 4/4 and bountiful fortune at least 4/5, then 1 Blessing of Battle and 2x Astral seal and you're fully recharged: that's faster than 3x Blessing of Battle. And don't worry about Blessing of Battle, the buff expires after many seconds. It's strange that you stated that you're used to big heals numbers (so I assume that you want to be a healer mainly), but your rotation is more rigtheous/buff oriented.
The DC is a very flexible class and many things can be done. As examples: - @putzboy78 is a buffer/dps cleric. His toon is built around this concept. If you play with him, you can see what it means. - @jeffslider wrote his goals very clearly at the beginning of this discussion and his build & setup are consistent with them - I consider myself as an all-around PvE DC and AP cleric: decent in doing everything, excelling in AP gain only -> I'm an AA spammer and my rotation follows this approach. 1 BoB + 2xAS -> divinity recharged -> DG + 3x Divinity chains + emp BtS -> AA ready. So it's a mix of heals (Tiamat set/high power), buff/debuff (rigtheous build, DC powers, companions,weapon enchantment,....), dps (owlbear cub/righteous build/AA buff) ) and mitigation (AA). That's because flexibility is my main goal. - @jazzfong also wrote an interesting guide that I always suggest to read (http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1213089/elfs-guide-on-dcs-powers-renamed-to-be-clearer-since-lazy-to-update)
I could add other contributors ( @thefabricant , @lerapiso818 and many others), but to make it short, all these are experienced players with one thing in common: at end-game/BiS level, they are all righteous. Ofc this is not a "must", but experience shows that if you play with good teams, the righteous is the best solution. It's not generally true anymore if you join pug teams or if you play with low IL/heterogeneous groups: this is important because it's one of the decision you've to take, evolving your cleric consistently. There are DCs who prefer to be mostly healers anyway ( @bitt3rnightmar3, I hope I'm not wrong) and they have good reasons to do so.
PS: Stating your goals is def essential. One big mistake I made was to adjust my cleric everytime I discovered something I was not aware of. The cost of such changes was very high. It's in your interest to take advantage of the experience of other players.
Post edited by rapo973 on
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Yeah that's exactly the point I was trying to make with this diagram in Amber's build. There are so many possibilities for DC. You have to consider what you want to be, what fits your playing style, and what your typical team composition requires. Then adjust accordingly. You can be a specialist in a role or try to be a bit of everything. It's all about finding the right balance for you.
That is a cool spiderweb diagram from @putzboy78 to give context of how you will want to focus on your own build. This thread is some great reading and new and veteran DC's should read it.
I love reading about BiS and meta builds and tend to try and gravitate that way but the DC community is one of the best at pointing out that you need to apply context to your situation as well. Do you run with full BiS guild mates, or are you putting, or maybe you are often helping lower geared guildies through content, etc? That will play as much a part in the right build for you as does playstyle preference, AD, etc.
What I like most about AC Righteous is the versatility of the builds and my ability to adjust to my party and content needs.
If it matters any, my typical rotation: assuming I have no stacks of divinity, I open with divine glow, then hit forgemasters flame followed by three blessing of battle to build divinity. After I have full divinity, I use Break the spirit, divine glow, and forgemasters flame while in divinity mode. Once fully empowered I use break the spirit then rinse and repeat. As mentioned earlier power is sitting just over 17,400. Il is just over 2.7k, and recovery sucks at just over 4000, so I guess I am still too noobish to fully shine with this. If you can recommend some better powers to use I am open to suggestions.
I think your IL is not the real problem. The rotation is fine, but I believe that you've to make clear what your goals are before thinking about what you want to do. I would suggest that you open a new post where you show your cleric, roll, stats, equipement, writing down your playstyle and your goals so that you can collect advices and suggestions. As an example: you cast 3x Blessing of Battle to recharge dinivity. That's not bad, but if your goal is to recharge dinivity as fast as you can, there are better solutions . If you have divine fortune 5/5 and bountiful fortune at least 4/5, then 1 Blessing of Battle and 2x Astral seal and you're fully recharged: that's faster than 3x Blessing of Battle. And don't worry about Blessing of Battle, the buff expires after many seconds. It's strange that you stated that you're used to big heals numbers (so I assume that you want to be a healer mainly), but your rotation is more rigtheous/buff oriented.
The DC is a very flexible class and many things can be done. As examples: - @putzboy78 is a buffer/dps cleric. His toon is built around this concept. If you play with him, you can see what it means. - @jeffslider wrote his goals very clearly at the beginning of this discussion and his build & setup are consistent with them - I consider myself as an all-around PvE DC and AP cleric: decent in doing everything, excelling in AP gain only -> I'm an AA spammer and my rotation follows this approach. 1 BoB + 2xAS -> dvinity recharged -> DG + 3x Divinity chains + emp BtS -> AA ready. So it's a mix of heals (Tiamat set/high power), buff/debuff (rigtheous build, DC powers, companions,weapon enchantment,....), dps (owlbear cub/righteous build/AA buff) ) and mitigation (AA). That's because flexibility is my main goal. - @jazzfong also wrote an interesting guide that I always suggest to read (http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1213089/elfs-guide-on-dcs-powers-renamed-to-be-clearer-since-lazy-to-update)
I could add other contributors ( @thefabricant , @lerapiso818 and many others), but to make it short, all these are experienced players with one thing in common: at end-game/BiS level, they are all righteous. Ofc this is not a "must", but experience shows that if you play with good teams, the righteous is the best solution. It's not generally true anymore if you join pug teams or if you play with low IL/heterogeneous groups: this is important because it's one of the decision you've to take, evolving your cleric consistently. Thare are DCs who prefer to be mostly healers anyway ( @bitt3rnightmar3, I hope I'm not wrong) and they have good reasons to do so.
PS: Stating your goals is def essential. One big mistake I made was to adjust my cleric everytime I discovered something I was not aware of. The cost of such changes was very high. It's in your interest to take advantage of the experience of other players.
Not sure if it was you who helped me out earlier, but thanks/thanks again. I don't have a pc at all sadly, even with this post, I am using a keyboard connected to the xbox one. I have to respec anyways, I kind of messed up the last time I did that, it will probably be done either today or tomorrow. Once this is done, my main goal I guess is mitigation, specifically astral shield. It looks like if I get recovery up higher I can have 100% up time on it. This wouldn't make me a tank like say an OP or GF, but it I think it would work, and if it doesn't, then the buff from empowered BTS will be my best friend. Either way, a lot of good advice in that link you gave me, I especially like the using chains to build empowered instead of BTS, really good AP gain.
Anyways, thanks for the help will see if. there is a way I can get a visual of my char during a skirmish or demo run.
It's not generally true anymore if you join pug teams or if you play with low IL/heterogeneous groups: this is important because it's one of the decision you've to take, evolving your cleric consistently. There are DCs who prefer to be mostly healers anyway ( @bitt3rnightmar3, I hope I'm not wrong) and they have good reasons to do so.
PS: Stating your goals is def essential. One big mistake I made was to adjust my cleric everytime I discovered something I was not aware of. The cost of such changes was very high. It's in your interest to take advantage of the experience of other players.
Nope, You're not wrong I'm still playing a healer at 3.6ishK IL. I prefer it that way.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Once this is done, my main goal I guess is mitigation, specifically astral shield. It looks like if I get recovery up higher I can have 100% up time on it. This wouldn't make me a tank like say an OP or GF, but it I think it would work, and if it doesn't, then the buff from empowered BTS will be my best friend.
That's ok. Be aware that mitigation can be provided in multiple ways both as a Divine Oracle and Anointed Champion. If done in the right way, you can extend your game experience to include and be competitive in PvP in the mid/long term, but this is a further option. If you look at the diagram from @putzboy78, your position is in the heal/thankiness area. The degree of mitigation is another important parameter: try to avoid focusing on a single power. To help you in the right way, you should do an effort and open a new dedicated thread because this post is to discuss the build from @jeffslider. When you show your cleric, try to use the same structure followed by @jeffslider and @putzboy78 in their build posts: it helps to capture the details. I'm sure your effort will be rewarded.
Post edited by rapo973 on
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Not sure if it was you who helped me out earlier, but thanks/thanks again. I don't have a pc at all sadly, even with this post, I am using a keyboard connected to the xbox one. I have to respec anyways, I kind of messed up the last time I did that, it will probably be done either today or tomorrow. Once this is done, my main goal I guess is mitigation, specifically astral shield. It looks like if I get recovery up higher I can have 100% up time on it. This wouldn't make me a tank like say an OP or GF, but it I think it would work, and if it doesn't, then the buff from empowered BTS will be my best friend. Either way, a lot of good advice in that link you gave me, I especially like the using chains to build empowered instead of BTS, really good AP gain.
Anyways, thanks for the help will see if. there is a way I can get a visual of my char during a skirmish or demo run.
You can use nwcalc.com to show your feats. There is also a website that has a Character Manager where you can select your gear and link your build but we are not allowed to link it in the forums. So I'm not sure how we can help you on that part.
If your building to be more of a damage mitigator you make want to deviate from jareks build a bit and put points in Have Faith and even consider using exaltation/prestigious exaltation. However, there is no way you can reach the righteous capstone, use battle ferver, and prestigious exaltation or at least not fully stacked in either. So you may have some hard decisions to make.
Any PC player have more info on the plaguefire nerf? Seeing Jarek's update just forced me to sell my trans plague on xbox...now I need to pick between a perfect vorp/dread to replace it
Any PC player have more info on the plaguefire nerf? Seeing Jarek's update just forced me to sell my trans plague on xbox...now I need to pick between a perfect vorp/dread to replace it
When you do testing of the plague on the Advanced Combat Tracker, also known as 'ACT', you see everything you need to know. With your personal effectiveness, I remember that plague was about an 11-12% increase, meaning it increased your personal dmg by 11-12%. When you test it with a party member/ally however, their effectiveness just increased by a 1.2-1.3% number, meaning that their dps increased by that margin, which is nothing honestly for a party. You're on Xbox so I don't believe you guys have mod 10 and I don't know when mod 10 comes out for y'all, that's why I said for xbox/ps4 users, it remains the same for y'all. You all can keep those things until the time is right, like when y'all know for sure the mod comes out and you can sell like two weeks prior at least but since you sold yours already, I guess you got a way early jump start lol.
true??? i buy plague some days ago. why they dont say in patch notes? is 1% one stack or all stacks? frost seems best now.
Well that's on them really for not saying anything about those changes and that's a good question, when I had the test with my fellow guild member, he actually didn't say if it was just 1 stack or all three but by the way he was analyzing, it could be that all three stacks were 1.3% but don't take that answer as yet, I will have to test it later and see just to make sure. If it happens to be 1.3% per stack, I still don't fine that 3.9% is a great number of increase for a dps party. 5% and up at least in my opinion with these things.
Any PC player have more info on the plaguefire nerf? Seeing Jarek's update just forced me to sell my trans plague on xbox...now I need to pick between a perfect vorp/dread to replace it
When you do testing of the plague on the Advanced Combat Tracker, also known as 'ACT', you see everything you need to know. With your personal effectiveness, I remember that plague was about an 11-12% increase, meaning it increased your personal dmg by 11-12%. When you test it with a party member/ally however, their effectiveness just increased by a 1.2-1.3% number, meaning that their dps increased by that margin, which is nothing honestly for a party. You're on Xbox so I don't believe you guys have mod 10 and I don't know when mod 10 comes out for y'all, that's why I said for xbox/ps4 users, it remains the same for y'all. You all can keep those things until the time is right, like when y'all know for sure the mod comes out and you can sell like two weeks prior at least but since you sold yours already, I guess you got a way early jump start lol.
Thanks Jarek, I wish we had the equivalent of ACT on Xbox. I wonder if the change was intended or a side effect of the frost fix? Savvy market players on xbox seem to keep up to date on changes in items on the PC so I wanted to sell it ASAP before it dropped in value lol.
Comments
And for guild boons, I have never had one, so I don't know if it's base power like campaign boons or not.
Pup - Level 70 4.2k Buff/Debuff AC DC
XBL GT: TehPuppy
Actually, if your allies haven’t bonding runestones, AA damage increase is never higher than HG in practical dungeons situations.
Anyway you should also consider that if you’re using Hastening Light you can provide a better cooldown reduction with AA, both because you can spam it more frequently and because when hitting mobs with AA the cooldown reduction is doubled (it’s a bug, but whatever).
Furthermore, AA provides control immunity and that’s helpful when fighiting Akar Kessell (also with Lostmauth, but his hitbox is so big that it’s almost impossible to buff all allies).
And last but not least, AA follows allies, so if they are quickly running through pulls of mobs it lasts longer. For example, at the beginning of eToS there are two pulls of mob and if you cast HG at the first one, your allies will have no daily at the second one. Sure, they could lure all mobs in a spot before killing them, but that’s up to them.
(It’s funny because, despite all these reflexions, when I pug skirmishes I often rush ahead and buff only myself, but that’s just to troll the party.)
When soloing, no story: AA forever. My power goes up to 110K (down from ~160k in Mod 9) and that's it.
When I'm in a party, everything is managed by experience. When I play with the team mates I know (meaning that I know if they have bonding runestones or not, what kind of equipment they have, feats etc), I alternate AA and HG depending on the situation.
When pugging, I prefer to follow a more conservative approach, always casting AA supported by my ~100% AP gain (so I don't need the snail, Burning Holy Symbol, DC artifact..they can be removed from my perspective): maybe it doesn't max the dps, but it's a very flexible daily and the survavibility is guarateed most of the times without healing a lot.
Currently I'm very happy of my setup as it gives me a lot of flexibility despite I'm rightoeus: decent dps, good heals when needed, good buff, good mitigation.
That said, it's easy to give advices when I sit on a 4k toon. Honestly when I'm asked to give an opinion on how to play the DC at lower level, I just provide a few basic guidelines because imo the playstyle of the player is the main driver.
There are players who prefer survivability (for whatever reason, and many times they have good reasons) instead of being a buff machine: in this case I suggest to play the mid-range area (from 2.0k to 2.8/3.0k) as virtuous/faithful and then rework the DC later (but it's a quite expensive choice). Furthermore they don't do damages and the daily quests are often a nightmare.
There are other players who want to be buffer/dps DC from the beginning and in this case I suggest them to read this forum ( @putzboy78. good job), but usally they don't have an easy life in the 2k - 2.5k range for the opposite reasons: relatively low survivability, low heals, but faster when soloing. The worst thing for a low IL buffer is to play in a group that doesn't know what a buffer is/does: so be careful when you join a group.
So whatever decision you take, there's always a toll to be paid during the progression of the toon: it's not everything black or white.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
AA also let's many parties I've been in run without a tank. A GWF I play with lives my AA, especially on Orcus where the big may target him more. For me AA isn't just about the DPS, it's all the utility and versatility of it as well.
I still bring the DC sigil which almost 100% of the time I cast immediately after HG so I can still refill AP.
I can say as a Righteous, I never pug queue any dungeon I don't feel I can basically solo on my own (can't quite solo anything but with a few people to distract bosses, T1s and skirmishes are pretty trivial). I will LFG pug but I make it clear that either the tank needs to be able to live on DG or we need a real healer. However, even then its usually okay because everything melts pretty fast and I can put in Astral Shield in a pinch.
One thing that is nice is going into content and knowing that dps is never really a factor. Since everyones dps is doubled things like edemo can still have issues for survive-ability for my team, but the dps is always there and enough of it to burn phase 2 without leaving the well.
I still hate that in edemo, if you melt too quickly and you kill him during when you need to direct him somewhere, he can actually get bugged and you will get like bronze or something for that phase despite clearly killing him and it should have been gold.
Either way thanks for your help I'll stick with it a while longer.
AA: Better when clearing trash (since you can move with it), better for damage mitigation if anyone has any risk of falling down. If you resign yourself to spamming this, you can add some fun bonuses too (Hastening Light, Shepherd's Devotion, and feat it for more AP trickle). Also, it's spammable.
HG: Better for a stationary battleground. Likely gives better DPS and since it lasts so long it's good against lag/stun. The big caveat is that you can't gain AP while it's down, so it's not really spammable. Since the ITF interaction nerf in mod10, it's also not so significantly better than AA if your dps is rocking high level bondings.
If someone has 3x r12 bonding + legendary active, they are getting 4x the power aura. That's 1x directly + 2.85x bonding + 0.15x legendary active. If you optimize the passive power on your gear and from certain boons / insignia, your AA can potentially be putting out enough power buff to compete with HG. Especially fun if someone else is dropping HG on top of all that too
If it matters any, my typical rotation:
assuming I have no stacks of divinity, I open with divine glow, then hit forgemasters flame followed by three blessing of battle to build divinity. After I have full divinity, I use Break the spirit, divine glow, and forgemasters flame while in divinity mode. Once fully empowered I use break the spirit then rinse and repeat.
As mentioned earlier power is sitting just over 17,400. Il is just over 2.7k, and recovery sucks at just over 4000, so I guess I am still too noobish to fully shine with this. If you can recommend some better powers to use I am open to suggestions.
The rotation is fine, but I believe that you've to make clear what your goals are before thinking about what you want to do.
I would suggest that you open a new post where you show your cleric, roll, stats, equipement, writing down your playstyle and your goals so that you can collect advices and suggestions.
As an example: you cast 3x Blessing of Battle to recharge dinivity. That's not bad, but if your goal is to recharge dinivity as fast as you can, there are better solutions . If you have divine fortune
5/54/4 and bountiful fortune at least 4/5, then 1 Blessing of Battle and 2x Astral seal and you're fully recharged: that's faster than 3x Blessing of Battle. And don't worry about Blessing of Battle, the buff expires after many seconds.It's strange that you stated that you're used to big heals numbers (so I assume that you want to be a healer mainly), but your rotation is more rigtheous/buff oriented.
The DC is a very flexible class and many things can be done. As examples:
- @putzboy78 is a buffer/dps cleric. His toon is built around this concept. If you play with him, you can see what it means.
- @jeffslider wrote his goals very clearly at the beginning of this discussion and his build & setup are consistent with them
- I consider myself as an all-around PvE DC and AP cleric: decent in doing everything, excelling in AP gain only -> I'm an AA spammer and my rotation follows this approach. 1 BoB + 2xAS -> divinity recharged -> DG + 3x Divinity chains + emp BtS -> AA ready. So it's a mix of heals (Tiamat set/high power), buff/debuff (rigtheous build, DC powers, companions,weapon enchantment,....), dps (owlbear cub/righteous build/AA buff) ) and mitigation (AA). That's because flexibility is my main goal.
- @jazzfong also wrote an interesting guide that I always suggest to read (http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1213089/elfs-guide-on-dcs-powers-renamed-to-be-clearer-since-lazy-to-update)
I could add other contributors ( @thefabricant , @lerapiso818 and many others), but to make it short, all these are experienced players with one thing in common: at end-game/BiS level, they are all righteous. Ofc this is not a "must", but experience shows that if you play with good teams, the righteous is the best solution.
It's not generally true anymore if you join pug teams or if you play with low IL/heterogeneous groups: this is important because it's one of the decision you've to take, evolving your cleric consistently. There are DCs who prefer to be mostly healers anyway ( @bitt3rnightmar3, I hope I'm not wrong) and they have good reasons to do so.
PS: Stating your goals is def essential. One big mistake I made was to adjust my cleric everytime I discovered something I was not aware of. The cost of such changes was very high. It's in your interest to take advantage of the experience of other players.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
(sorry I had to, i know it was a mistake)
Pup - Level 70 4.2k Buff/Debuff AC DC
XBL GT: TehPuppy
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I love reading about BiS and meta builds and tend to try and gravitate that way but the DC community is one of the best at pointing out that you need to apply context to your situation as well. Do you run with full BiS guild mates, or are you putting, or maybe you are often helping lower geared guildies through content, etc? That will play as much a part in the right build for you as does playstyle preference, AD, etc.
What I like most about AC Righteous is the versatility of the builds and my ability to adjust to my party and content needs.
Either way, a lot of good advice in that link you gave me, I especially like the using chains to build empowered instead of BTS, really good AP gain.
Anyways, thanks for the help will see if. there is a way I can get a visual of my char during a skirmish or demo run.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
If done in the right way, you can extend your game experience to include and be competitive in PvP in the mid/long term, but this is a further option.
If you look at the diagram from @putzboy78, your position is in the heal/thankiness area. The degree of mitigation is another important parameter: try to avoid focusing on a single power.
To help you in the right way, you should do an effort and open a new dedicated thread because this post is to discuss the build from @jeffslider. When you show your cleric, try to use the same structure followed by @jeffslider and @putzboy78 in their build posts: it helps to capture the details.
I'm sure your effort will be rewarded.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
If your building to be more of a damage mitigator you make want to deviate from jareks build a bit and put points in Have Faith and even consider using exaltation/prestigious exaltation. However, there is no way you can reach the righteous capstone, use battle ferver, and prestigious exaltation or at least not fully stacked in either. So you may have some hard decisions to make.
Well that's on them really for not saying anything about those changes and that's a good question, when I had the test with my fellow guild member, he actually didn't say if it was just 1 stack or all three but by the way he was analyzing, it could be that all three stacks were 1.3% but don't take that answer as yet, I will have to test it later and see just to make sure. If it happens to be 1.3% per stack, I still don't fine that 3.9% is a great number of increase for a dps party. 5% and up at least in my opinion with these things.