test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Invoke changes on preview

145679

Comments

  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    ribbs1 said:

    Yeah, this kind of change will absolutely crush our guild.

    Exactly. Already, Guildies must spend an hour or so a day, doing dailies, to help the guild advance. Dailies that do not give AD rewards at all.

    Casual gamer's get the Big Green again!
    This will dramatically harm surplus equipment now as people are going to want to salvage them more than ever before now.
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User


    Bots are scripts, not AI. Why would someone set up a bot near human players where anything can happen and nothing can be predicted? If bots are running dungeons, they would do it themselves or with other bots. Even then, it would be pretty expensive to get to a state of making predictable runs.

    It isn't expensive - there are people who develop these "AIs" for profit and people who pay for them to use these "AI". It's like people farming RP specifically for selling and those that buy them. Is it expensive for either side when there's a supply and demand in "rather big" quantities? Not really.

    And sometimes these "buyers" may not be as clever to avoid human players - hence is why we see a few of them now and then but most are clever and stay with their kinds.
    Last summer there was a flood of dungeon bots. I expect new dungeon bots are being made as we play. Last summer I recall being in zone where literally dozens of clones (CW with the basic healer all the same builds) were bouncing in and out of the districts. I played one dungeon where I was stuck at the end. Because the bot was spawning and jumping to its death over and over. These were not well made and armature.

    However I agree, bots are NOT the issue, because they get detected and dealt with by both users who report them and the devs who study them. For many years now, RMT/Gold Sellers use prisoners in China to play game 12 hours a day. Don't laugh, these men are forced to play for people who pay the system. When you buy gold from a website, you are supporting a Chinese prison guard who tortures these men for your money. There are tons of reputable news articles on this going back years.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • carl103carl103 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    No it will not. A single person, who gets an hour a day to play, even if they max out invokes previously during work breaks (Takes approximately 10 minutes to rotate through 8 alts to invoke each, and refine AD) would at best be able to run 2 skirmishes and 2 baby dungeons, plus the AD bonus for doing so, and get what, <15K AD/Day.</div>


    Your not supposed to get >15k AD a day doing that. has the point, if you play that little either put 6+ months in the grind out or pay, it's F2P that s what F2P means, you put a lot of time in or you put a lot of money in, pick one and deal. If you can't, (cos work), put the time in and you don't want to pay, find another game. This isn't the game for you.
    Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:

    https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    I expect prices to go down because of less AD coming into the economy.
    People will still want to sell their 99 r5 enchants. if they sit too long on them they eat up inventory space.
    Just wait a few months and see.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    prices will not go down, bis players and whales will keep them high. blue rings are major ad supply in the game, the nerf is very huge. Skirmishes overall are heavily nerfed. few established accounts in big guild will keep high AD income, rest of players is hugely nerfed, its so obvious. bonus AD is laugable

    now you are forced running the same premades for T2 ad absurdum until you burnt out - it wasnt like that before, you could pugging for a while various content for good AD .....
  • hawkblaze1954#5209 hawkblaze1954 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    I have 13 characters that i actually use and have invested in.

    This is how i see a week's balance

    3960 (3300 invoking per day *1.2) *7 days = 27720 Bonus rate, weekly balance

    27720 * 2 = 55440 RAD needed to clear the balance

    This is my battle plan, per character for a week (VIP figures);

    Weeklies
    Portal of Tuern = 4500
    Arcane Reservoir = 4500
    Red Wizards = 4500
    Biggrins Tomb = 4500
    Ballad of Baphomet = 4500
    Total = 22500

    I haven't included Reclaiming the Hoard due to Dragon Coffers (can't generate enough gold to be sustainable)

    55440 - 22500 = 32940 RAD needed to clear the balance (16470 Bonus Rate)

    1 Dungeon on Saturday and Sunday
    5400 (ish can't remember exactly :p) *2 = 10800 RAD

    32940 - 10800 = 22140/2 = 11070 Bonus rate per week

    100,000 cap / 11070 = 9 weeks of overflow before the 100,000 cap is reached

    100,000 cap is cleared with 200,000 salvage (should be easy to stock up on)

    So hopefully 2 x RAD is within 9 weeks or more dungeons/skirmishes are needed :(
  • linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User

    <

    The big problem with this is that except for the weekly quests, Maze Engine dailies (now farmable, I guess) and any salvage from Demon HEs, there's very little AD to be earned by someone who plays the game very casually and/or primarily solo. If you devote your time to campaigns and strongholds, you're not getting squat. Invoke AD made up for that a bit, but there's not really any compensation right now for anyone who doesn't want to do the very limited spectrum of activities that Cryptic says you deserve to get AD from.

    You can literally spend hours actually playing NW without doing a single thing that generates AD. Worse if you're a Foundry fan.

    I couldn't say it any better so I'm just going to repeat this, because its brilliant!

    There is more to this game then dungeons and skirmishes. I should not have to be shackled to doing those aspects of the game I dislike just to progress. It might of been fine had the game started off this way, but it didn't. For two years, I was able to play the game and progress as I pleased. I was never a botter and never had an army of alts. You cant just alter how people are expected to progress without some kind of backlash.


    Agreed - the lunatic nailed it. And for Dog's sake reduce the invoke requirement to daily instead of the stupid four hour thing.
  • sleepy725sleepy725 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    Just wanted to laugh at how they even said it was because of bots on PC but I bet Xbox gets this exact same nerf.
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    wow, it is the biggest nerfage to hit invokings, it is version 3.0 invoking changes.
    is devs killing the player motivations instead of stopping the bots?
    now the VIP and invokings just became pure HAMSTER, and xp isnt much for, devs should had put limit alt cap on daily invokings to stop army of alts farming for C-ward coffers. dont have time to have my alts to run dungeons for salvagings for the bonus.
    it seem wrong on all format of this game.
    STOP TAKING AWAY, there no way most players can afford auction that is way overpriced, those who have hoarded or cheating thru 3rd party can do whatever they want.

    we really want to see improvements with VIP and invokings that everyone would like. devs are really shooting thier feets off several times over and now doing with wooden feets since all the foots they had were long gone. i guess i better open my wooden feet shop business, i get first dibs.

    edit:
    profession kits took major nerf, now they are worthless and keys are expensive when we get so many failed lockpick rolls.
    invokings for minor xp and some bags? oh wow, how lame!
    VIP took a nosedive since T-bar nerfage, only for a key a day?
    lockboxes got also nerfed with removal of idols.

    maybe i should make bullet-proof wooden feets?
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    I still say this will make the dungeon bot come back into fashion. Invoking was keeping the bots busy. I really hate the dungeon bots with a passion. If the botters could make one that would keep up with the rest and not commit suicide or get stuck in the spike pits... well enough said about the bots. I just pray I am wrong about their return. I had enough of them last year.
    linaduin said:


    Agreed - the lunatic nailed it. And for Dog's sake reduce the invoke requirement to daily instead of the stupid four hour thing.

    I don't know if you played before they changed it (April 2015), but invoking was an hourly, optional, thing before this convoluted system. The invoke timer ran for 1 hour and you could ignore it (pretty much as I still ignore it today) or you could invoke every hour. But you only needed to invoke 3 times NOT six.
    The old method rewarded you with;
    1st: 1,000 AD, 4,310 XP, 1 Ardent Coin and 1 Celestial Coin
    2nd: 665 AD and 2,155 XP
    3rd: 335 AD and 1,078 XP
    additional Invocations: random buffs
    See the old original method was; invoke, wait a hour, invoke, wait a hour, invoke... done in 2 hours.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    sameriker said:


    linaduin said:


    Agreed - the lunatic nailed it. And for Dog's sake reduce the invoke requirement to daily instead of the stupid four hour thing.

    I don't know if you played before they changed it (April 2015), but invoking was an hourly, optional, thing before this convoluted system. The invoke timer ran for 1 hour and you could ignore it (pretty much as I still ignore it today) or you could invoke every hour. But you only needed to invoke 3 times NOT six.
    The old method rewarded you with;
    1st: 1,000 AD, 4,310 XP, 1 Ardent Coin and 1 Celestial Coin
    2nd: 665 AD and 2,155 XP
    3rd: 335 AD and 1,078 XP
    additional Invocations: random buffs
    See the old original method was; invoke, wait a hour, invoke, wait a hour, invoke... done in 2 hours.
    Post April 2015 made it more annoying but did at least yield better, and immediate, rewards. Now it's both annoying and, depending on your play-style, more pointless. Reflecting on it further and considering the new purpose of invoking, I think a reasonable system might be twice daily invokes with half the daily AD boost for each invoke, an AC and CC on first invoke and a CC on second invoke. I don't really care about the XP. A lot of LS tasks are on a 8 or 12 hour cycle so it could sync with that to some extent.
  • psyb3rtr011psyb3rtr011 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    carl103 said:

    No it will not. A single person, who gets an hour a day to play, even if they max out invokes previously during work breaks (Takes approximately 10 minutes to rotate through 8 alts to invoke each, and refine AD) would at best be able to run 2 skirmishes and 2 baby dungeons, plus the AD bonus for doing so, and get what, <15K AD/Day.</div>


    Your not supposed to get >15k AD a day doing that. has the point, if you play that little either put 6+ months in the grind out or pay, it's F2P that s what F2P means, you put a lot of time in or you put a lot of money in, pick one and deal. If you can't, (cos work), put the time in and you don't want to pay, find another game. This isn't the game for you.
    You are misinformed. Previous to the recent Bonus AD for doing dailies, a player could in one hour gaming time, get 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons completed, for approximately 4.5K AD each (4.95K if VIP), or 19K (20.9 if VIP). Now, with this 50% invocation bonus, after 4 hours of invoking, and you play an extra hour, you get 28K AD (31.8 if VIP).

    The person who plays 4 characters though the same 4, and invokes, will get over 120K AD.

    Meanwhile, the casual gamer, who gets at most one hour a day to game, will be lucky to slightly over 20K AD, since they cannot invoke enough times to get the full 50% for all AD rewards.

    All 8 of my characters, invoking each day, provided me 26.4K AD, and allowed me to do my daily Stronghold Dailies, to help it advance.

    This is not a lot of AD, but it was enough for me to grind slowly, and buy a few SMOPs a month to upgrade my primary character.

    Now, I have to sacrifice helping the Guild, to run the same 4 boring daily skirmish/dungeon combinations, to get approximately the same.

    Sorry, I have a life, I cannot spend 4 or more hours a day on a game, and I sure as hell do not want to have to grind to advance.

    Psyb3rTr011
    AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
  • psyb3rtr011psyb3rtr011 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    OK, so I have voiced my opinion, and not provided solutions to the perceived problems.

    Not good. Anyone can complain and do nothing, providing solutions takes thought.

    So, after reviewing the reasons for these changes, and their impact on my play, and that of other casual gamer's, I have decided to add some recommendations.

    Problem: Invoking resulted in AD inflation.

    Evaluation of problem: I disagree, I believe the huge AD gained from Salvaging items from the most prolific dungeons and especially rings from the Demons, leads to this. This rewards the hard core gamer's with hours of time, to amass huge AD advantages over other players. There is no cap to the number of rings you can get a day from the Demons, and this is evident by the masses of characters running circles doing them over and over, and over, and over.

    Solution:
    1) Limit the number of items an account can salvage daily to a certain amount. (4 a day would be a reasonable amount)
    2) Restore invoke, but limit each account to a set amount of AD daily. (I could see limiting this to 10 or 15K per account per day.
    3) Provide a means of getting AD through the Daily Stronghold quests. This would allow casual gamer's the opportunity to get AD and help their Guilds at the same time. This too should be capped per account. (10K a day would be reasonable)
    4) Cap AD accrual for each account to a set amount, through all sources. (50K a day, which is a fraction of what an account with multiple characters can attain now by running just skirmishes, dungeons and salvaging rings from the Demons, can over a 6 hour period.)
    Psyb3rTr011
    AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    devs just reach breaking point on serious nerfages, they are doing lot of damages, and seem to force some players running to 3rd party dealers for ADs they need. i am also sick of those sellers spamming ingame mail, and they ask us if we want to remove from thier mailing list if we visit that questiable site. it is a trick, they may have keyloggers.
    i recommended Dont Go or being risked your account if visiting and possiblity may get banned or get account stolen. if you have lifetime accounts in other games, dont go!

    they maybe using the prisoners farming or even the mafia using the "sweatshop" for real cash and possible of having CC data collected.

    Okay, back to the game sistuation, causal players are losing so much and feel forced to do something that they are so sick of grinding same old runs and out of options to get progressions just for chance to play high-end adventures and get in with the groups that required higher standards or no choice when they get bored or burnout trying hard to keep up with +3.0k, or 3.5k or higher. it made dangerous situation for players by cheating or quit if they cant meet by current timeframe if expected by high-end players demanding others to "spend" for short-cut cheats where they are not comfortable.

    what would if devs fix those and bring back P-wards and C-wards as bound to accounts from invoking coffers and T-bar vendors? as non-sell items?
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,009 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Well, another AD income cut has been made, but where are the cuts for the AD costs?
    Companion upgrade costs for example...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • superent666superent666 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    If the changes work as promoted and I (no invoke army, just 3 toons being played) will get 20% more ad now I like it. Still too little ad-generation considering the prices for upgrading a toon but a start. But one question...dunno if I'm being dense but I don´t see where it is shown how much ad-bonus a toon has gathered in total? I read it is possible to store up to 100k...
    edit: I finally saw it...next to the character mug shot... :)
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    These changes have been good for me. I personally never invoked as I hated that it forced me to do something other than playing the game on my toons and I very well could have invoked, I have 52 char slots. The changes to salvage means I can spam T2s rather than T1s and make more AD over all.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,609 Arc User
    sleepy725 said:

    Just wanted to laugh at how they even said it was because of bots on PC but I bet Xbox gets this exact same nerf.

    The intent is also keep each platform equal to the others.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    IF they really want people to play the game, and not stand around PE trolling and invoking; eliminate invoking and just put AD rewards back into running "qualified foundry quests". As it stands now, the term "qualified" is laughable, because it meant the quest was long enough to earn the extra AD. Now the term mean nothing.

    Please don't bother saying it is to combat botters, exploiters, and as such. Remember they had this running on STO (Star Trek) for 2 years prior to bringing it here. Difference is, they still give you the reward on STO, Dilithium Crystals are still a reward for running daily Foundries, so why not on Neverwinter? I hate sounding like a conspiracy theorist but they simply don't make as much revenue as they use to on STO. Who knows what the fate of Neverwinter would have been, if Cryptic had finished Jurrasic Park Online? My opinion, PE would have more cobwebs than Rothe Valley, I really think lots of cobwebs.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    Is there a way that you can tell how much bonus AD each toon has invoked and has stored?
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    lantern22 said:

    Is there a way that you can tell how much bonus AD each toon has invoked and has stored?

    Yes under your character icon portrait in the upper left you can see an AD booster. Hit ALT and mouse over. It holds up to 100,000 points. If you have 6,000 points in there it means you need to make 12,000 AD to claim all of it. For example; if you run AR for 4,500 you would get 6,750 AD for AR and 3,750 points remaining.

    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    WoW ,once again those of us who play fair get the shaft because of these lazy developers do not have to brains to combat the bots? Things like this are what make people leave and start posting negative things about this game on reviews sites.
    I left this game for almost a year for these reasons, remember when you got something for all the time you put into leadership.
    I cannot sit here and play every alt everyday,some days I have hard time doing more than 3 invokes per day ,morning,noon ,evening . Now with this loose I have no real reason to bother with alts,which in the end means less income to your game,as people like myself will not bother to buy stuff for alts.

    First we worked for months and put rl $ into game to build up the leadership profession ,you changed invoke before it used to only be 3 invokes per day and you got more RAD than after the change to what it is now, even tho you had to do it more often you still ended up with "less RAD" than before. then you cut that out under the guise of "bots" ,then you changed Leadership and removed RAD under the "guise" of BOTTERS ,but let's not stop there "BOTTERS" were the reason refine stones were removed.Now you have removed RAD from invoke all together once again under the "GUISE" of botters. So that makes Botters 3 and honest players 0. Oh by the way while you are at it the botters are botting different places still so how soon before you just shut down everything "BECAUSE OF BOTTERS" and we the honest players can just stand around in PE and have nothing left because of these "botters", who are running all over you guys.
    I just returned and was looking so much for this new mod to come and give me a reason to start spending real cash on the game ,but not with this BS move.

    PS: maybe you should fire those running this show and hire some people who "CAN" fight botting without HAMSTER over the honest fair players who are the ones who actually support this game by spending their hard earned $$ and not caving in for those who cheat and put no real $$ into it.
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    "Customer via CSS Web 08/20/2016 07:08 AM
    I'd like a refund for my last 6 month vip purchase. I have not started using those vip days yet as they were added on to the end of my existing vip membership which hadn't expired yet. I wanted vip status for the bonus daily invoking astral diamonds which you have now decided to remove from the game. I bought it for that and you removed it so kindly refund my purchase."

    This change is total BS. The game has been declining and their answer is to try to milk more from the current players. I've played since beta and this is it for me. I have limited time to play now, 1 day a week to play but I was able to log in for my invokes daily. The very little bit of diamonds from it was a help, after 1 year of invoking you could raise 1 pet from purple to orange, yay, 1 freaking year and they needed to take that away? This totally screws casual players. I don't expect them to give me the refund but they should have to. Either way I'll be spending my one gaming day playing something else and not logging into this joke to invoke anymore will save me a bit of clock watching.. Oh and I have several 70's and lead a guild so even though I play little now I think that players like me will be seen as a big loss to the community in the coming months and maybe I would've been able to play more again in the future, that thought is the only reason I've been playing until now.

    If you like the changes then congrats to you. Happy hunting to those going down with the ship.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    sameriker said:

    lantern22 said:

    Is there a way that you can tell how much bonus AD each toon has invoked and has stored?

    Yes under your character icon portrait in the upper left you can see an AD booster. Hit ALT and mouse over. It holds up to 100,000 points. If you have 6,000 points in there it means you need to make 12,000 AD to claim all of it. For example; if you run AR for 4,500 you would get 6,750 AD for AR and 3,750 points remaining.

    awesome, thnx
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    Having now experienced how it works, I have to say I'm hating this. It means I'm having to play indifferently geared (or retired) alts doing content I don't want to do over and over again, wasting my time instead of playing what I want to play. Add to that I've done 40 odd demonic HEs over several days since the patch without a single ring so that seems to have been nerfed too.
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    sameriker said:

    jwulg said:

    ghoulz66 said:

    This is pointless. Botters make more AD doing dungeons than they do from invoking. It won't hurt them at all. Only legit players are going to be maimed as usual.

    How does a "botter" play a dungeon?
    Botter doesn't play, the bots do. Bots exist in these dungeons. You never had a bot in your party? It would be very ignorant for anyone to "explain" how bots function, but you don't need to be a programmer to be a botter. There are entire forums dedicated to selling players bot scripts.

    Bots can be easy to recognize by players that know what to look for, they don't talk, they don't fight well, they just keep up with the party and stay alive. If the party recognizes them as bots, they get kicked. The bot doesn't get mad and rage quit, the bot just starts the next dungeon run. It is a machine playing against a machine and it can't get more simple than that.
    I can confirm your story. It happened to me once although not as bad as yours. Me and 4 other players (not bots) came in and reinforce the existing instance of Malabog's castle. I thought it was weird at first. Until I checked the scoreboard and wow. 5 toons, 1 account (yup, all 5 of them are in the same account), running the same dungeon. Too bad they only manage until Malabog and they got wiped out.....20+ times.
  • unstablevikingunstableviking Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 72 Arc User
    I love the change... First they made having more then one toon almost impossible to play, then they all but eliminated the skill nodes, and now it is all but useless to invoke (unless you plan on just sitting there for hours waiting to do something to get the bonus.) I use to play for hours upon hours... and would buy Zen with cash... NOW, I play but a few hours a week and get more done due to not invoking and not having to stop and get the skill nodes.. that saved me a lot of time AND CASH... TY Cryptic. Keep up the great work.
  • artanisenartanisen Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    Not entire lose. Can still invoke once to get the ardent coin every
    15 days and get the horse or dye and sell it.
    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
    "Great men are almost always bad men."
    “If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    I still do 6 times for my alts. In addition to the coins, the AD bonus of less active alts are used for:
    1. salvageable from the main characters.
    2. Possible 30K AD from XP reward (even though the chance is low) and I still do leadership with my alts. Hence, they get XP.
    3. RP and coupons.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Sign In or Register to comment.