This is pointless. Botters make more AD doing dungeons than they do from invoking. It won't hurt them at all. Only legit players are going to be maimed as usual.
How does a "botter" play a dungeon?
Botter doesn't play, the bots do. Bots exist in these dungeons. You never had a bot in your party? It would be very ignorant for anyone to "explain" how bots function, but you don't need to be a programmer to be a botter. There are entire forums dedicated to selling players bot scripts.
Bots can be easy to recognize by players that know what to look for, they don't talk, they don't fight well, they just keep up with the party and stay alive. If the party recognizes them as bots, they get kicked. The bot doesn't get mad and rage quit, the bot just starts the next dungeon run. It is a machine playing against a machine and it can't get more simple than that.
Bots are scripts, not AI. Why would someone set up a bot near human players where anything can happen and nothing can be predicted? If bots are running dungeons, they would do it themselves or with other bots. Even then, it would be pretty expensive to get to a state of making predictable runs.
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
Bots are scripts, not AI. Why would someone set up a bot near human players where anything can happen and nothing can be predicted? If bots are running dungeons, they would do it themselves or with other bots. Even then, it would be pretty expensive to get to a state of making predictable runs.
It isn't expensive - there are people who develop these "AIs" for profit and people who pay for them to use these "AI". It's like people farming RP specifically for selling and those that buy them. Is it expensive for either side when there's a supply and demand in "rather big" quantities? Not really.
And sometimes these "buyers" may not be as clever to avoid human players - hence is why we see a few of them now and then but most are clever and stay with their kinds.
Let me ask this question. Are there bots that will play tennis or lay on the beach for you? In the practical sense no. The point being if you like playing tennis you will go out and play it and not set up a bot.
My conclusion is that something is fundamentally wrong with the game design if folks would rather bot than play the game and every bad game decision they make is done under the premise that it is to stop botters. Clearly the amount of grind in the game is too high such that only a bot can enjoy it and people aren't enjoying the game itself.
> @sneak#6191 said: > Not sure why people are complaining about this. People are using bots to receive free money instead of earn it the normal way. Now dedicated players like myself will be excelling even better, relative to the people who just run bots and have a billion char slots. No amount of whining or arguing is going to logically defeat the point that botting invokes is harmful to people who actually put in an effort earning AD.
Seriously, this is like a slap in the face for everyone who actually played multiple toons and just wants to take a break from a class for example. I got 6 toons on level 70 (currently working on my 7th), all with TIL between 2,5 - 2,6k with all boons unlocked (except the last 2 on ToD and underdark respectively), which means i actually played A LOT with all of them. After some time, you just get kinda tired of a class and try a new one, but does that mean i dont have the right to get some AD with the ones i already spent so much time on? Hell, even with the one i am leveling right now, i dont do any dungeon or skirmish most of the days if im not in the mood ... so if i dont feel like doing something in particular (running a dungeon), i shouldnt even get the last little bit of AD available outside partyruns/PvP? Even though i am actively playing?
This must be a joke ...
I already felt kinda tired of the game in the last 2 weeks, still always logged in to invoke and play at least a little bit. This is getting invalid now, probably motivating me to just log in and get my key until VIP runs out. Pretty sad ...
Once again, the "Bot Boogeyman" has been used to smack down the legitimate users in the game. I don't have a "bot army". I have 6 Alts that since Leadership was destroyed will never have a chance to get BIS gear and be played to their fullest intent. VIP member here that will NEVER spend another dime on this game since the time after time obvious money grabs are being put in place to chase a ghost.
Good luck, after HAMSTER all of your loyal customers yet again I can only imagine how many more folks will just throw up their hands and bail. Used to love Tiamat runs and such, now you can't hardly find enough folks to fill the queues.
No one to blame but your greedy selves. You think it's real clever to continually blame the bots but that cat's out of the bag. Everyone knows what you are doing and why you are doing it.
which means i actually played A LOT with all of them. After some time, you just get kinda tired of a class and try a new one, but does that mean i dont have the right to get some AD with the ones i already spent so much time on?
The ones you spent time on got the AD for the time you spent on them when you actually spent time on them. The whole point here is to make you go out and actually play the game to earn AD.
The trouble IMO is that they've done that by gating all the good AD sources behind gear caps, they want progression and they want people t actually have to play the game to get AD at a decided behind the scenes average AD an hour and they don;t want people able to earn so much that the AH becomes too expensive for new players to use forcing people to either buy zen or go without.
The problem is AH inflation is just the nature of how these economy's work, you can't deflate these kinds of economies easily. In fact whilst it usually happens with in game Gold in most MMO's, inflation of the market is a near omnipresent part of every MMO. AT the end of the day the only real way to handle it is the way it's handled IRL, Wage, (or in this case earnings), increases in line with inflation.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
Just think about what happened to r4&r5 prices after they were removed from nodes.
Yeah, stripping the nodes made soloing the daily quest dungeons seem pointless and much less fun. Now harvesting them just leads to a bag full of useless bound mount trinkets anyway. Much of my time was spent doing those, Leadership, and Invoking. Everything I actually like to do keeps getting nerfed to death to 'combat bots'. All I really want them to do is leave my stuff alone.
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The short-sighted folks who want and expect everyone to play the way that they play is ridiculous. The Leadership tree is what drew me to this game a year and a half ago. I spent all kinds of time & money getting my 8 characters up to Level 70 and going strong on Leadership and then over night all of that money & time was a complete waste and will never ever be recovered. Now the peanuts that the legitimate players were getting from invoking are gone. You know, from those extra character slots that we paid cash for...
I can't see the big impact this change may have for someone who actually plays the game and I doubt that most AD is generated by invocing by bots. I met hole armies of bots at the entrance of some leveling zones, maybe they lost their target, but I am sure they were not send there to invoke? I only invoke for Celestial coins and wards. Sometimes i swap some items towards my alts to salvage AD, normally grinding with 3 chars. The ammount of AD I did by invoking is ...near nothing.
> Not sure why people are complaining about this. People are using bots to receive free money instead of earn it the normal way. Now dedicated players like myself will be excelling even better, relative to the people who just run bots and have a billion char slots. No amount of whining or arguing is going to logically defeat the point that botting invokes is harmful to people who actually put in an effort earning AD.
Seriously, this is like a slap in the face for everyone who actually played multiple toons and just wants to take a break from a class for example.
I got 6 toons on level 70 (currently working on my 7th), all with TIL between 2,5 - 2,6k with all boons unlocked (except the last 2 on ToD and underdark respectively), which means i actually played A LOT with all of them. After some time, you just get kinda tired of a class and try a new one, but does that mean i dont have the right to get some AD with the ones i already spent so much time on?
Hell, even with the one i am leveling right now, i dont do any dungeon or skirmish most of the days if im not in the mood ... so if i dont feel like doing something in particular (running a dungeon), i shouldnt even get the last little bit of AD available outside partyruns/PvP? Even though i am actively playing?
This must be a joke ...
I already felt kinda tired of the game in the last 2 weeks, still always logged in to invoke and play at least a little bit. This is getting invalid now, probably motivating me to just log in and get my key until VIP runs out. Pretty sad ...
You need to understand they aren't slapping you in the face but invoke botters. Sometimes decisions need to be made for a more important reason than satisfying you with trivial amounts of AD for simply pressing a key on the keyboard 6 times a day.
Atodaso@sneak#6191 Tornado Of Souls
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
100,000 limit. You can invoke for a month before needing to do a run for a piece of salvage. Sounds forgiving enough for me, with 31 chars.
After that sweet 50% off sale on VIP and everything else, they hit us with this HAMSTER. I should have known better. I thought the 10% AD bonus would pay for itself with my Alts even though it took hours from my life.
I said I would not spend cash in this game after that "Spend $100 and get 3 Account-wide Companions" attempted scam. That took them like 6 months to honor.
but it was 50% off and Cryptic was being kind of not ....... Shady and then .... BOOM!
Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me.
Yes, I am ashamed.
Good news is I get my daily hours back for FAR better Online games with my friends and I can return when the Zen Exchange settles Months from now and spend ALL my AD on cheaper AH items.
So I'll check back here when the level cap increases and focus on gearing up at the new level. (Edit: A HUGE maybe only because I spent... Wasted so much money in here)
In the meantime, I'll go play other MMO's where I'm a gamer that plays the game instead of being a gamer that gets played.
God I hated that Sahha ball scam, I don't know 1 person that got a Legendary mount and I had well over 10k volleys
(Edit: Almost forgot, have 10 level 70 characters that were Class Balanced but they don't get free respec tokens?)
F this. Good luck all.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
After that sweet 50% off sale on VIP and everything else, they hit us with this ****. I should have known better. I thought the 10% AD bonus would pay for itself with my Alts even though it took hours from my life.
I said I would not spend cash in this game after that "Spend $100 and get 3 Account-wide Companions" attempted scam. That took them like 6 months to honor.
but it was 50% off and Cryptic was being kind of not ....... Shady and then .... BOOM!
Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me.
Yes, I am ashamed.
Good news is I get my daily hours back for FAR better Online games with my friends and I can return when the Zen Exchange settles Months from now and spend ALL my AD on cheaper AH items.
So I'll check back here when the level cap increases and focus on gearing up at the new level.
In the meantime, I'll go play other MMO's where I'm a gamer that plays the game instead of being a gamer that gets played.
God I hated that Sahha ball scam, I don't know 1 person that got a Legendary mount and I had well over 10k volleys
Good luck all.
Sahha was garbage, but you're blowing this out of proportion.
You still get the bonus AD from VIP for invoking....
Stop being a baby. I'm sure anyone has enough time within a month to freakin get a piece of salvage.
Stop being a baby. I'm sure anyone has enough time within a month to freakin get a piece of salvage.
The Bonus only leaves the pool at a rate of 1 AD from the pool for every 2 AD earned elsewhere. You want to clear a 100k bonus, go earn 200k AD to do it. Still VIP's that do 2 daily dungeons plus a pair of skirmishes and the two easiest weekly's, given salvage drop rates can expect to clear 4 and a change days worth of bonus on average. The people who will hurt who weren't botting are the people who were supposed to get hurt amongst the non-botters. Those that don't log in and actually play the character, just invoke and log back off. If you did that your one of the targets of this change they made this very clear when discussing it.
That's also why leadership got nerfed, if your not actively in game doing somthing other than standing around your not suppose to earn AD on that toon, simple as that.
Personally i'd have preferred a higher rate of expenditure, like 100% so you don't need to be a VIP to have to clear the bonus without doing 2 dungeons every 4 days out of 5 or whatever, but still. That's basically my complaint, if your characters aren't well geared enough to reliably run higher level content your sources of daily AD are much more constrained and you suffer for that in ability to quickly expend the bonus.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
The people who will hurt who weren't botting are the people who were supposed to get hurt amongst the non-botters. Those that don't log in and actually play the character, just invoke and log back off. If you did that your one of the targets of this change they made this very clear when discussing it.
The big problem with this is that except for the weekly quests, Maze Engine dailies (now farmable, I guess) and any salvage from Demon HEs, there's very little AD to be earned by someone who plays the game very casually and/or primarily solo. If you devote your time to campaigns and strongholds, you're not getting squat. Invoke AD made up for that a bit, but there's not really any compensation right now for anyone who doesn't want to do the very limited spectrum of activities that Cryptic says you deserve to get AD from.
You can literally spend hours actually playing NW without doing a single thing that generates AD. Worse if you're a Foundry fan.
They need to add more support for making AD by doing more gameplay activities. Add small quantities of AD to all quests, not only the ones from Bruenor. Add some small AD rewards back to featured and/or daily-qualified Foundry quests. I'd love to see better rewards on HEs again, but I *know* these are botted already so c'est la vie.
And if they INSIST on continuing to shackle the AD bonus to invoking, they need to revisit the 4-hour cycle, because it sucks. It sucks for people who want to log in and run a dungeon right away just as much as it sucks for people who were treating invoking as their primary income. In my opinion, the actual worst thing about the change is that to get access to the full amount of bonus AD, you *still* have to invoke for 2.5 hours. Whyyyyyyyyyy.
Not sure why people are complaining about this. People are using bots to receive free money instead of earn it the normal way. Now dedicated players like myself will be excelling even better, relative to the people who just run bots and have a billion char slots. No amount of whining or arguing is going to logically defeat the point that botting invokes is harmful to people who actually put in an effort earning AD.
No you won't. Even if - and that's a big if - this would really aimed at and efficient against bot, you would still just have less stuff to buy in the AH for more AD, raise in power slower and falling even more behind the BiS toons.
This doesn't even hurt or affect botters. It's hilarious that people keep thinking this.
I wouldn't be surprised if this forced more people into botting.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Yet another expansion and people still can't see every thing that is implemented is to maximize people buying Zen. I get it's a F2P game supported by "micro"transactions but really... This is a game made by devs that hate their players (but love their money). Wake up before you spend another dollar!!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
The big problem with this is that except for the weekly quests, Maze Engine dailies (now farmable, I guess) and any salvage from Demon HEs, there's very little AD to be earned by someone who plays the game very casually and/or primarily solo. If you devote your time to campaigns and strongholds, you're not getting squat. Invoke AD made up for that a bit, but there's not really any compensation right now for anyone who doesn't want to do the very limited spectrum of activities that Cryptic says you deserve to get AD from.
You can literally spend hours actually playing NW without doing a single thing that generates AD. Worse if you're a Foundry fan.
I couldn't say it any better so I'm just going to repeat this, because its brilliant!
There is more to this game then dungeons and skirmishes. I should not have to be shackled to doing those aspects of the game I dislike just to progress. It might of been fine had the game started off this way, but it didn't. For two years, I was able to play the game and progress as I pleased. I was never a botter and never had an army of alts. You cant just alter how people are expected to progress without some kind of backlash.
With how they've changed salvage rates on T2 gear i expect people who can run that level of content to be earning a lot more on the characters they actually play, and maybe even most of what they did on alts via pass on salvage.
...I'm not so sure if they don't want exactly that and only that: increase the pressure to buy Zen.
Given they've stated repeatedly they don't like the AH inflation and how expensive zen has got, (and this is classic supply and demand, there's a lot of AD in circulation but not a lot of Zen of items), and given i'm willing to take their word on that i think you're wrong.
The thing to understand is that buying zen, (as with paying in ANY F2P game), is it's supposed to be a time vs convenience thing. Most people fall into one of two categories.
If your a 40 hour working week and can only run a few hours a couple of days a week, you have disposable income, your expected to either go slow or [pay for the convenience of skipping things. Thats why they don;t like high AH prices, it makes buying small amounts of zen less desirable and pushes convenience types away who don't want to pay big bucks from buying because it's too expensive.
If your a low income but high free time type however you can afford to put 20 or 30 hours a week into the game and suddenly if you can do epics you can earn enough from non-end chest sources to afford a month for VIP which gives you at higher levels a lot of extra epic keys a day plus an enchanted key a day so you can open and sell lockbox contents. That gives you probably north of another 500k AD income as profit, throw on a second character a day doing dungeons and 1.25-1.5 mill AD a month becomes viable, thats 2500-3000 zen a month, thats healthy income. But you've got to have the gear and the time to do it. And lower Zen prices and AH prices would mean these would see only a small rise so it dosen;t hurt cryptics bottom line to do it.
DO NOT get me wrong, i think the AD system could do with some adjustments it's a bit too harsh on casuals IMO, but it's also got the issue you really need to be running epic dungeons and up to make it work too. And that gar gates things a bit much.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
There are those with and those without. I meant Casual players with 50 characters will be affected negatively as they counted on free 100-250k AD per day using invoke bots; those w/o many characters will will benefit from this change.
Yes but the point is a casual player does not play the game that much to begin with, why would they buy all those slots to get a currency they do not use? If people are going to defend this try to make sense.
I mean I am indifferent to it. I knew this would come eventually but honestly let us stop pretending this is to fix a problem created by people who long since stopped playing the game. Bot programs are not free. The ones who used those programs long ago were hardcore players who wanted to win so badly in PvP matched they bought programs to help them get gear. This is not done by some player who stopped in to check out the game made a paladin, turned in some quests, got bored and left to play some other MMO.
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psyb3rtr011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
If they think that this will result in more people buying Zen from Arc, I think they will find that they are overreaching. Interest in the game for weekend warriors and others who have a limited amount of time to play will plummet, because they will see the change for what it is: a cash grab.
This was the final straw for me. I now have no reason to make another purchase and support this game. I feel my almost $2K over the last two years, is wasted.
I am upside down, due to the amount of money and AD I spent getting all 8 of my characters (One for each class) maxed out in Leadership (90% previous to previous nerfs, reducing then removing all possibility to get AD through Leadership.).
Epic Leaders went from close to 500K AD to 60K AD overnight, after the first reduction. Then climbed back up to around 150K, as people realized they could get a small amount of AD through multiple leadership skill trees. When Leadership lost any possibility to make AD, they dropped again. I have not bothered to price them, having all I need for my characters now. But I suspect it is low, like alchemists and other craftsmen now, since crafting is all but worthless.
I am a very casual gamer, and once I run content once, with each class, I find little to no joy in repeating it and grinding the same skirmishes, dungeons, over and over ad nauseum. Invocation and crafting provided me a way to collect some AD, to advance my alt, between new content releases. I could log in every couple hours or so, on breaks from work, and invoke all my characters, and still allow me a chance to play content for my hour a day (Which I currently end up using to help advance my Guilds Stronghold) I have available, while getting a total of 25K AD from all 8 characters each day.
Now, I am forced to grind my one character, through a couple skirmishes and maybe one dungeon a day, to get what, 10K total? and ignore my Guild in the process. Thanks a friggen lot.
New releases come with too little content, and too far apart, to provide me a chance to play new content and enjoy the game. The repetition of doing repetitive dailies to help the Guild Stronghold is enough pain and misery. Forcing me to have to exchange this pain and misery, to run skirmishes and dungeons (Most often with PUG's, since my one hour a day login window is weird for even the most dedicated gamers.) , so my character can advance, makes the situation even more painful.
My wallet is now closed.
Psyb3rTr011
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
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psyb3rtr011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
"panderus said: The reason we made this change was because was saw that Invocation was the largest source of AD that could be generated by not actually playing the game, this is not good. It was very apparent when comparing the PC numbers with what was happening on Xbox, VERY different playstyles but the vast difference between the two groups suggested this was a problem area.
The change we made will actually increase the amount of AD you would earn if combined with actual gameplay. You can even bank it for a week and play all on the weekend, you just have to do something to actually earn that AD now instead of having a bot army."
No it will not. A single person, who gets an hour a day to play, even if they max out invokes previously during work breaks (Takes approximately 10 minutes to rotate through 8 alts to invoke each, and refine AD) would at best be able to run 2 skirmishes and 2 baby dungeons, plus the AD bonus for doing so, and get what, <15K AD/Day.
My 8 characters, with VIP, got me 26.4K a day. (3,300 x 8) This was used to purchase SMOP's, required to upgrade my gear.
I did not run skirmishes or dungeons, because my hour a day, provided me just enough time to do the Guild Stronghold Dailies, and help it advance.
Now, I have to quit doing that, if I want any chance to get any AD.
Like I said above. This move was the final straw, that closed my wallet.
The previous nerfs of Crafting, especially Leadership, was bad enough, but this was the Coup de Grace.
I guarantee, I am not alone in thinking like this. The comments above, support me. I know many of my Guildies were already commenting about abandoning this game altogether after the Leadership nerfs. I cannot wait to hear what they say when I log in later today.
Psyb3rTr011
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
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psyb3rtr011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
Comments
And sometimes these "buyers" may not be as clever to avoid human players - hence is why we see a few of them now and then but most are clever and stay with their kinds.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
My conclusion is that something is fundamentally wrong with the game design if folks would rather bot than play the game and every bad game decision they make is done under the premise that it is to stop botters. Clearly the amount of grind in the game is too high such that only a bot can enjoy it and people aren't enjoying the game itself.
> Not sure why people are complaining about this. People are using bots to receive free money instead of earn it the normal way. Now dedicated players like myself will be excelling even better, relative to the people who just run bots and have a billion char slots. No amount of whining or arguing is going to logically defeat the point that botting invokes is harmful to people who actually put in an effort earning AD.
Seriously, this is like a slap in the face for everyone who actually played multiple toons and just wants to take a break from a class for example.
I got 6 toons on level 70 (currently working on my 7th), all with TIL between 2,5 - 2,6k with all boons unlocked (except the last 2 on ToD and underdark respectively), which means i actually played A LOT with all of them. After some time, you just get kinda tired of a class and try a new one, but does that mean i dont have the right to get some AD with the ones i already spent so much time on?
Hell, even with the one i am leveling right now, i dont do any dungeon or skirmish most of the days if im not in the mood ... so if i dont feel like doing something in particular (running a dungeon), i shouldnt even get the last little bit of AD available outside partyruns/PvP? Even though i am actively playing?
This must be a joke ...
I already felt kinda tired of the game in the last 2 weeks, still always logged in to invoke and play at least a little bit. This is getting invalid now, probably motivating me to just log in and get my key until VIP runs out. Pretty sad ...
Good luck, after HAMSTER all of your loyal customers yet again I can only imagine how many more folks will just throw up their hands and bail. Used to love Tiamat runs and such, now you can't hardly find enough folks to fill the queues.
No one to blame but your greedy selves. You think it's real clever to continually blame the bots but that cat's out of the bag. Everyone knows what you are doing and why you are doing it.
The ones you spent time on got the AD for the time you spent on them when you actually spent time on them. The whole point here is to make you go out and actually play the game to earn AD.
The trouble IMO is that they've done that by gating all the good AD sources behind gear caps, they want progression and they want people t actually have to play the game to get AD at a decided behind the scenes average AD an hour and they don;t want people able to earn so much that the AH becomes too expensive for new players to use forcing people to either buy zen or go without.
The problem is AH inflation is just the nature of how these economy's work, you can't deflate these kinds of economies easily. In fact whilst it usually happens with in game Gold in most MMO's, inflation of the market is a near omnipresent part of every MMO. AT the end of the day the only real way to handle it is the way it's handled IRL, Wage, (or in this case earnings), increases in line with inflation.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The short-sighted folks who want and expect everyone to play the way that they play is ridiculous. The Leadership tree is what drew me to this game a year and a half ago. I spent all kinds of time & money getting my 8 characters up to Level 70 and going strong on Leadership and then over night all of that money & time was a complete waste and will never ever be recovered. Now the peanuts that the legitimate players were getting from invoking are gone. You know, from those extra character slots that we paid cash for...
I met hole armies of bots at the entrance of some leveling zones, maybe they lost their target, but I am sure they were not send there to invoke?
I only invoke for Celestial coins and wards.
Sometimes i swap some items towards my alts to salvage AD, normally grinding with 3 chars. The ammount of AD I did by invoking is ...near nothing.
Tornado Of Souls
I said I would not spend cash in this game after that "Spend $100 and get 3 Account-wide Companions" attempted scam. That took them like 6 months to honor.
but it was 50% off and Cryptic was being kind of not ....... Shady and then .... BOOM!
Fool me once, shame on you,
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Yes, I am ashamed.
Good news is I get my daily hours back for FAR better Online games with my friends and I can return when the Zen Exchange settles Months from now and spend ALL my AD on cheaper AH items.
So I'll check back here when the level cap increases and focus on gearing up at the new level. (Edit:
A HUGE maybe only because I spent... Wasted so much money in here)
In the meantime, I'll go play other MMO's where I'm a gamer that plays the game instead of being a gamer that gets played.
God I hated that Sahha ball scam, I don't know 1 person that got a Legendary mount and I had well over 10k volleys
(Edit: Almost forgot, have 10 level 70 characters that were Class Balanced but they don't get free respec tokens?)
F this.
Good luck all.
You still get the bonus AD from VIP for invoking....
Stop being a baby. I'm sure anyone has enough time within a month to freakin get a piece of salvage.
Stop being a baby. I'm sure anyone has enough time within a month to freakin get a piece of salvage.
The Bonus only leaves the pool at a rate of 1 AD from the pool for every 2 AD earned elsewhere. You want to clear a 100k bonus, go earn 200k AD to do it. Still VIP's that do 2 daily dungeons plus a pair of skirmishes and the two easiest weekly's, given salvage drop rates can expect to clear 4 and a change days worth of bonus on average. The people who will hurt who weren't botting are the people who were supposed to get hurt amongst the non-botters. Those that don't log in and actually play the character, just invoke and log back off. If you did that your one of the targets of this change they made this very clear when discussing it.
That's also why leadership got nerfed, if your not actively in game doing somthing other than standing around your not suppose to earn AD on that toon, simple as that.
Personally i'd have preferred a higher rate of expenditure, like 100% so you don't need to be a VIP to have to clear the bonus without doing 2 dungeons every 4 days out of 5 or whatever, but still. That's basically my complaint, if your characters aren't well geared enough to reliably run higher level content your sources of daily AD are much more constrained and you suffer for that in ability to quickly expend the bonus.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
You can literally spend hours actually playing NW without doing a single thing that generates AD. Worse if you're a Foundry fan.
They need to add more support for making AD by doing more gameplay activities. Add small quantities of AD to all quests, not only the ones from Bruenor. Add some small AD rewards back to featured and/or daily-qualified Foundry quests. I'd love to see better rewards on HEs again, but I *know* these are botted already so c'est la vie.
And if they INSIST on continuing to shackle the AD bonus to invoking, they need to revisit the 4-hour cycle, because it sucks. It sucks for people who want to log in and run a dungeon right away just as much as it sucks for people who were treating invoking as their primary income. In my opinion, the actual worst thing about the change is that to get access to the full amount of bonus AD, you *still* have to invoke for 2.5 hours. Whyyyyyyyyyy.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I wouldn't be surprised if this forced more people into botting.
Even with it you can't afford companion upgrades.
Mind making them cheaper now....?
There is more to this game then dungeons and skirmishes. I should not have to be shackled to doing those aspects of the game I dislike just to progress. It might of been fine had the game started off this way, but it didn't. For two years, I was able to play the game and progress as I pleased. I was never a botter and never had an army of alts. You cant just alter how people are expected to progress without some kind of backlash.
With how they've changed salvage rates on T2 gear i expect people who can run that level of content to be earning a lot more on the characters they actually play, and maybe even most of what they did on alts via pass on salvage.
Given they've stated repeatedly they don't like the AH inflation and how expensive zen has got, (and this is classic supply and demand, there's a lot of AD in circulation but not a lot of Zen of items), and given i'm willing to take their word on that i think you're wrong.
The thing to understand is that buying zen, (as with paying in ANY F2P game), is it's supposed to be a time vs convenience thing. Most people fall into one of two categories.
If your a 40 hour working week and can only run a few hours a couple of days a week, you have disposable income, your expected to either go slow or [pay for the convenience of skipping things. Thats why they don;t like high AH prices, it makes buying small amounts of zen less desirable and pushes convenience types away who don't want to pay big bucks from buying because it's too expensive.
If your a low income but high free time type however you can afford to put 20 or 30 hours a week into the game and suddenly if you can do epics you can earn enough from non-end chest sources to afford a month for VIP which gives you at higher levels a lot of extra epic keys a day plus an enchanted key a day so you can open and sell lockbox contents. That gives you probably north of another 500k AD income as profit, throw on a second character a day doing dungeons and 1.25-1.5 mill AD a month becomes viable, thats 2500-3000 zen a month, thats healthy income. But you've got to have the gear and the time to do it. And lower Zen prices and AH prices would mean these would see only a small rise so it dosen;t hurt cryptics bottom line to do it.
DO NOT get me wrong, i think the AD system could do with some adjustments it's a bit too harsh on casuals IMO, but it's also got the issue you really need to be running epic dungeons and up to make it work too. And that gar gates things a bit much.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
I mean I am indifferent to it. I knew this would come eventually but honestly let us stop pretending this is to fix a problem created by people who long since stopped playing the game. Bot programs are not free. The ones who used those programs long ago were hardcore players who wanted to win so badly in PvP matched they bought programs to help them get gear. This is not done by some player who stopped in to check out the game made a paladin, turned in some quests, got bored and left to play some other MMO.
I am upside down, due to the amount of money and AD I spent getting all 8 of my characters (One for each class) maxed out in Leadership (90% previous to previous nerfs, reducing then removing all possibility to get AD through Leadership.).
Epic Leaders went from close to 500K AD to 60K AD overnight, after the first reduction. Then climbed back up to around 150K, as people realized they could get a small amount of AD through multiple leadership skill trees. When Leadership lost any possibility to make AD, they dropped again. I have not bothered to price them, having all I need for my characters now. But I suspect it is low, like alchemists and other craftsmen now, since crafting is all but worthless.
I am a very casual gamer, and once I run content once, with each class, I find little to no joy in repeating it and grinding the same skirmishes, dungeons, over and over ad nauseum. Invocation and crafting provided me a way to collect some AD, to advance my alt, between new content releases. I could log in every couple hours or so, on breaks from work, and invoke all my characters, and still allow me a chance to play content for my hour a day (Which I currently end up using to help advance my Guilds Stronghold) I have available, while getting a total of 25K AD from all 8 characters each day.
Now, I am forced to grind my one character, through a couple skirmishes and maybe one dungeon a day, to get what, 10K total? and ignore my Guild in the process. Thanks a friggen lot.
New releases come with too little content, and too far apart, to provide me a chance to play new content and enjoy the game. The repetition of doing repetitive dailies to help the Guild Stronghold is enough pain and misery. Forcing me to have to exchange this pain and misery, to run skirmishes and dungeons (Most often with PUG's, since my one hour a day login window is weird for even the most dedicated gamers.) , so my character can advance, makes the situation even more painful.
My wallet is now closed.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
The reason we made this change was because was saw that Invocation was the largest source of AD that could be generated by not actually playing the game, this is not good. It was very apparent when comparing the PC numbers with what was happening on Xbox, VERY different playstyles but the vast difference between the two groups suggested this was a problem area.
The change we made will actually increase the amount of AD you would earn if combined with actual gameplay. You can even bank it for a week and play all on the weekend, you just have to do something to actually earn that AD now instead of having a bot army."
No it will not. A single person, who gets an hour a day to play, even if they max out invokes previously during work breaks (Takes approximately 10 minutes to rotate through 8 alts to invoke each, and refine AD) would at best be able to run 2 skirmishes and 2 baby dungeons, plus the AD bonus for doing so, and get what, <15K AD/Day.
My 8 characters, with VIP, got me 26.4K a day. (3,300 x 8) This was used to purchase SMOP's, required to upgrade my gear.
I did not run skirmishes or dungeons, because my hour a day, provided me just enough time to do the Guild Stronghold Dailies, and help it advance.
Now, I have to quit doing that, if I want any chance to get any AD.
Like I said above. This move was the final straw, that closed my wallet.
The previous nerfs of Crafting, especially Leadership, was bad enough, but this was the Coup de Grace.
I guarantee, I am not alone in thinking like this. The comments above, support me. I know many of my Guildies were already commenting about abandoning this game altogether after the Leadership nerfs. I cannot wait to hear what they say when I log in later today.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
Casual gamer's get the Big Green again!
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd