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near perma lockdown and piercing damage

emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
First of all I dont play any of the classes who can perma stun and/or kill someone with piercing dgm so before anything else I admit I dont know the mechanics and I've no idea how balanced they are. That said being almost permanently locked in place, unable to move or act while rapidly losing HP to unseen damage sucks and that's putting it mildly. Neverwinter pvp has been down this road once before and it caused a pretty big outrage(nerfs) once enough frustration was accumulated. My toon can stay alive most of the time vs anything because I go into pvp with a full survival setup op thus becoming a punching bag that can take alot and dish zero in return. Its a very lousy way to play but its the only way for a Paladin pug to stand against those high end premade guys who can also stunlock AND deal piercing dmg. Let me ask you, if there are even enough people reading the section, let me ask you is this OK? And if the answer is yes then kindly share your counter tactics to the above..

Thanks
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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    marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    emilemo said:

    First of all I dont play any of the classes who can perma stun and/or kill someone with piercing dgm so before anything else I admit I dont know the mechanics and I've no idea how balanced they are. That said being almost permanently locked in place, unable to move or act while rapidly losing HP to unseen damage sucks and that's putting it mildly. Neverwinter pvp has been down this road once before and it caused a pretty big outrage(nerfs) once enough frustration was accumulated. My toon can stay alive most of the time vs anything because I go into pvp with a full survival setup op thus becoming a punching bag that can take alot and dish zero in return. Its a very lousy way to play but its the only way for a Paladin pug to stand against those high end premade guys who can also stunlock AND deal piercing dmg. Let me ask you, if there are even enough people reading the section, let me ask you is this OK? And if the answer is yes then kindly share your counter tactics to the above..

    Thanks

    Not ok but NW pvp is a in a pit about as deep as it gets atm.
    Elven battle enchant is a must or you get locked down with no chanse to either move or hit back.

    What is worse is that you face premade 9/10 times at least and if your not in one you will not only loose but become a punching bag for some less then nice individuals (yes there are exeptions)..
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    emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    *sigh* Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean.. At this point I dont know whats more annoying, being locked in place by roots or being picked up and pushed as soon as you enter the node by the "force"

    PS: Elven battle enchantment.. Let's not flame bait people, ok? Thanks!
    Post edited by kreatyve on
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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    aderonzaderonz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 120 Arc User
    There are some paladins out there that hits like trucks and have very high surviability. But generaly againt a Bis premade there is nothing you can do as pug.

    The class balance is definitly better than it was few mods back, the biggest problem remaining is the premades, they should add a solo queu and private queues, then pvp will get much better.
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    trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    Solo que playlist please! But your right the cc is a little crazy sometimes.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
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    jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    @OP,

    Right now, PvP HRs have two popular builds, full combat - this one has no stuns except one daily, and usually no roots, does have good burst with piercing. Second, trapper with 15 points in archer - full stuns and roots, and only meh piercing damage.

    Basically, if he perma stuns you, he probably can't kill you, if he doesn't perma stun you, he may well kill you.

    But HRs can't do both at the same time, unless there's a fairly big difference in item level. I respecced to full combat yesterday, on my 3.8k pathfinder HR, it's very tanky, and damage wise much better than mod9. But that's as far as it goes, HRs have not suddenly become overpowered death machines, what's happening atm. is no-one is used to having to take a PvP HR seriously, because mod8/9 HRs were a joke.

    Now, thank God, we're not.
    No idea what my toon is now.
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    emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    jonkoca said:

    @OP,

    Right now, PvP HRs have two popular builds, full combat - this one has no stuns except one daily, and usually no roots, does have good burst with piercing. Second, trapper with 15 points in archer - full stuns and roots, and only meh piercing damage.

    Basically, if he perma stuns you, he probably can't kill you, if he doesn't perma stun you, he may well kill you.

    But HRs can't do both at the same time, unless there's a fairly big difference in item level. I respecced to full combat yesterday, on my 3.8k pathfinder HR, it's very tanky, and damage wise much better than mod9. But that's as far as it goes, HRs have not suddenly become overpowered death machines, what's happening atm. is no-one is used to having to take a PvP HR seriously, because mod8/9 HRs were a joke.

    Now, thank God, we're not.

    Indeed I should have explicitly specified how it happens. Basically two things happen:

    1) When my gf who is not 70 yet meets a trapper with a trans weapon enchant who can lock me down and kill me.
    2) At 70 my pally usually survives any HR regardless of IL but Im also unable to do anything beside standing there like a tree. Now before anyone states that this is balanced since we both cancel each other out let me state that my pally sacrifices any and all offensive capability in order to stay alive while that same HR can probably end anybody else who
    doesnt have complete damage immunity windowns and stun break on demand.

    PS: My main point is not a nerf demand OK. I just want to make this clear, its about the control and how much is too much.
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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    aderonzaderonz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 120 Arc User
    Longshot Trapper has a little bit better damage, but it still takes forever to kill anyone who has PVP gear. there is almost noway that a trapper can kill a OP even if the OP is full dps mod.

    as OP you should be more worried about Combat HRs, and vene more against 2 hrs oen trapper and one combat, i think that no class can survive it, if there is no big il gaps.
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    jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User
    Im dealing with 2 TRs who have far better cc and a lot more piercing damage than HR over and over in PVP . So I find it a little hard to feel your pain. At least with Eb I can move from a HR cc. With TR its a lot longer to leave cc And Se is there next. Though every one in PVp now has a way to cc you and do a ton of Damage so I guess we are balanced now.
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    jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    My thoughts exactly.
    No idea what my toon is now.
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    mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    BOTH classes having piercing is not right.
    CRypitc introduced tenacity back in mod2. CAN i ask why?
    WE HAVE defence deflection why?
    bleeds to death now from hr combat like the aura of courage bug ?
    HOW piercing damage helps in pve? YES i mention here pve because if you remove the piercing from both classes BUT OFCOURSE improve them to deal good resistable damage it will not affect pve.
    WE ARE GETting boons defence deflect BUT NO piercing damage will ignore it. Crypitc you dont make any sense.

    SO improve the tree for hr and improve the whole tr and then add for example on piercing blades thresold to deal 50% more damage resistable when the x hp. SAme and for shocking.

    WE discussing a lot with my friends how to improve our characters in pvp add tenacity defensive stats offensive etc and you are coming with those piercings to make us feel we dont have gear.

    `
    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
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    mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    metalldjt said:

    Having piercing damage is right and wrong at the same time, as i mentioned in the feedback threads the issue with piercing blades is that it doesnt have an internal cooldown and also a damage limit so it won't deal pb more than 10.000 damage.

    Besides the issue with hunter ranger there are other problems with these 3 classes : Tr , Gwf and Dc

    - tr needs a increadible buff in damage in its encounters and atwills, and to be tonned down in its damage from SE , and make him squishirt since deflect severity and itc are makim him a tank.

    - dc needs his AS to be half effective in pvp, the gift of faith needa a 50' radius and a icd, debuffing target damage needa to be half effective in pvp.

    - gwf destroyer needa to be tonned down in his ammount of DR hr can get which should make him far more squishier as to be on par with other classes, there needs to be also buffed on sentinel paragon ao he can tank.

    Besides the 2 problems above there are other general issues:

    1. Tenacity cc resistance should swap with t.elven

    2. A new tenacity stat ahould be added which works agains lifesteal severity

    3. T.negation needs to be tonned down, T.elven also needs to be tonned down, wheel of elements the water buff should be 50% not 100% , the drowned weapons should have 90s cooldown and 30s uptime so it can be on par with the other weapons.



    So in other worda class balance changes that werw done were just 15% of the 100% issues that we have in this game, there needs to be more investment into class balance.

    lifesteal severity is half in pvp,
    if YOU think that piercing make sense then give to everyone piercing.
    give also to thaumaturge cw 20% chance assailant to deal unresistable vs player ! YOU forgot the three days of the piercing assailing force i am afraid.
    oh and i remembered the 60 sec cooldown lion mount with the blue shield. OH THAT is a rare item you will say.
    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
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    asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User

    metalldjt said:

    Having piercing damage is right and wrong at the same time, as i mentioned in the feedback threads the issue with piercing blades is that it doesnt have an internal cooldown and also a damage limit so it won't deal pb more than 10.000 damage.

    Besides the issue with hunter ranger there are other problems with these 3 classes : Tr , Gwf and Dc

    - tr needs a increadible buff in damage in its encounters and atwills, and to be tonned down in its damage from SE , and make him squishirt since deflect severity and itc are makim him a tank.

    - dc needs his AS to be half effective in pvp, the gift of faith needa a 50' radius and a icd, debuffing target damage needa to be half effective in pvp.

    - gwf destroyer needa to be tonned down in his ammount of DR hr can get which should make him far more squishier as to be on par with other classes, there needs to be also buffed on sentinel paragon ao he can tank.

    Besides the 2 problems above there are other general issues:

    1. Tenacity cc resistance should swap with t.elven

    2. A new tenacity stat ahould be added which works agains lifesteal severity

    3. T.negation needs to be tonned down, T.elven also needs to be tonned down, wheel of elements the water buff should be 50% not 100% , the drowned weapons should have 90s cooldown and 30s uptime so it can be on par with the other weapons.



    So in other worda class balance changes that werw done were just 15% of the 100% issues that we have in this game, there needs to be more investment into class balance.

    lifesteal severity is half in pvp,
    if YOU think that piercing make sense then give to everyone piercing.
    give also to thaumaturge cw 20% chance assailant to deal unresistable vs player ! YOU forgot the three days of the piercing assailing force i am afraid.
    oh and i remembered the 60 sec cooldown lion mount with the blue shield. OH THAT is a rare item you will say.
    I did complete the 5vs5 PvP tasks in this 3 days with piercing dng on my CW. I did not even bother with PvP gear. Using HV set, repell and ray of frost 90% of the enemies were dead, before they reached me.

    I did get some 'nice' pm in these days, elaborating on my personality, my mother and my sexual preferences.^^

    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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    candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User

    GWF is fine as well. We are at the squishiest we have ever been. Any more survivability nerfs and we will likely not be a viable melee class except at max IL. Piercing damage needs to be removed from the game. We are expected to grind and spend for Tenacity gear, only to have it bypassed by some classes. Confuses me.

    Squishest? realy, did i read it right? GWF squish?? you want more than 80% base dr that you already got? plus the huge damage? GWF should have max 30% dr, not 70~80% and before you start talking bout pve and melee, just read this: why you think there are tanks in this game?
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    demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Tr deflection is like dodge, but you get to do a little damage. If you want to nerd tr deflection then give tr a real dodge evasive mechanic that happens by chance based off our dexterity, and don't tie this mechanic to the stamina or shift buttons.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
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    mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    morenthar said:

    @macjae



    What you said is nice and all and I get it. I'm talking within the context of the current PvP environment. TR damage, outside of the soon to be addressed SE, is brutally low.



    If you want to talk balance, in this environment, TRs should absolutely have that kind of deflection severity. Now, if TRs get more damage, lower the severity.



    When you talk of TRs and balance, let's not forget what other classes are able to achieve defensively.

    If TRs didn't have SE, would you be complaining about their deflection severity?



    You've fought my TR. You understand the limitations without a tank buster power. You seem to be playing your GF more lately, but your old main sure benefits from a lot of defense with some very dubious indirect control and burst.



    The Repel->Ice Knife combo is quite a thing in combination with Shield on Tab. That shield plus a 50% deflection with potions seems like a pretty good set up to me. Not to mention the insanely low CD of Repel.



    So let's not BS around the bush.

    HOW repel and then ice knife is the standard succesfull combo when you can send very far the enemy depending on the arcane stacks number? AND now with disintegrate giving arcane stack is very easy to send very far the enemy and you will not able to cast imidiatelly ice knife if he dont come closer.
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