Amenar said was going to patch Friday any idea is this going to happen took off Friday afternoon to work with preview for HR
He said he *hoped* it would patch Friday, but might be early next week. Build wouldn't be up for typically several more hours from now anyway. Preview patches tend to be pushed pretty late in their working day.
Amenar said was going to patch Friday any idea is this going to happen took off Friday afternoon to work with preview for HR
He said he *hoped* it would patch Friday, but might be early next week. Build wouldn't be up for typically several more hours from now anyway. Preview patches tend to be pushed pretty late in their working day.
For me early is 6pm eastern time for got that they are 3 hrs behind me in Developer time but dying to get my hands on new stuff Ara
Hey all - I know you're still waiting for the previous set of changes to hit preview, but here's another set. Note that they won't be in the build that should be hitting "soon(TM)" but in the NEXT built that goes to preview.
Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: Charge time further reduced by 0.5s, down to 1s at Rank 4. Damage of the actual hit reduced slightly, but damage per cast time increased ~23%.
Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: It should now be easier to chain other powers after casting Aimed Shot.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Now also increases your Ranged powers damage based on the distance to your target. Damage is increased by 1% for every 5' away you are from your target.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Rank 4 now properly increases your range by an additional 3'.
Hunter Ranger: Cordon of Arrows: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hunter Ranger: Feat: Predator: This Feat is no longer half as effective against players.
Hunter Ranger: Feat: Warden's Courage: Now also reduces the damage resistance penalty of Throw Caution by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Hunter Ranger: Hindering Shot: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The AoE targeting FX now more accurately represent the area that will be hit.
Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Damage increased ~33%. Damage reduction for striking more than 1 target reduced to 5% per target, down from 7.5%.
Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Recharge time reduced to 8s, down from 14s.
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Damage resistance debuff reduced by 10% (now 15% at Rank 4, down from 25%).
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Now deals damage to a single target in addition to its existing effects. Animation/FX updated to match this new functionality.
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Recharge time reduced to 12s, down from 20s.
Also, we're getting really close to the end of the time when I can make changes to this module. I'm already making producers look at me funny putting so many changes in so late. We've still got a bit of time to fix any large issues, but anything else will probably be waiting until after this module goes live. It's gotta get off to approvals and translations and all that fun stuff.
Thank you guys so much for all of the feedback and discussion we've had about the Hunter Ranger, it's been an immense help.
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
@amenar thank you for doing the best you could! We really appreciate the work you have done. I'm a bit sad that Combat didn't receive the love it deserved, Archery did get better indeed. I'm curious to see how all the changes affected the difference between Trapper and the other trees!
Thanks for all the listening, that's fantastic. Bit sad that there won't be too many more changes, but I'm still very glad for everything you've done so far!
Just a few things:
BUG: Thorned Roots is affected by the dread enchantment crit severity. Thorned roots is not an encounter, so it should not be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as gwf Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
Also Thorned Roots is affected by damage buffs and many other similar effects aren't, so I'm not sure if it's intended or not either. I remember some powers from other classes were changed not to be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots is affected by the dread enchantment crit severity. Thorned Roots is not an encounter, so it should not be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
Also Thorned Roots is affected by damage buffs and many other similar effects aren't, so I'm not sure if it's intended or not either. I remember some powers from other classes were changed not to be affected.
^^This is going to get this thread booming again. With those suggested changes, trappers would lose atleast 15% of their damage. The idea was to make each tree viable, not change the meta from trapper to archer.
@amenar said the following in the HR blog: "while a certain build (The Trapper Thorned Roots build) allows them to get close to competitive with other classes, any deviation from that very specific (and a wee bit broken) build would greatly reduce their effectiveness".
In their opinion the trapper was close to being competitive. Changing the roots mechanics doesn't go with their vision at all for the class.
Guild: Ruthless Character: Vendetta
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
BUG: Thorned Roots is affected by the dread enchantment crit severity. Thorned Roots is not an encounter, so it should not be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
Also Thorned Roots is affected by damage buffs and many other similar effects aren't, so I'm not sure if it's intended or not either. I remember some powers from other classes were changed not to be affected.
Obviously I'm not the authority here, but as I recall there was a great deal of discussion about this and the effect is intentional. I for one would never have built my Dread Enchant if the damage from Thorned Roots wasn't affected.
It makes sense to me that all damage done as the result of an encounter power should be affected by a weapon enchantment.
Hey all - I know you're still waiting for the previous set of changes to hit preview, but here's another set. Note that they won't be in the build that should be hitting "soon(TM)" but in the NEXT built that goes to preview.
Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: Charge time further reduced by 0.5s, down to 1s at Rank 4. Damage of the actual hit reduced slightly, but damage per cast time increased ~23%.
Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: It should now be easier to chain other powers after casting Aimed Shot.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Now also increases your Ranged powers damage based on the distance to your target. Damage is increased by 1% for every 5' away you are from your target.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Rank 4 now properly increases your range by an additional 3'.
Hunter Ranger: Cordon of Arrows: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hunter Ranger: Feat: Predator: This Feat is no longer half as effective against players.
Hunter Ranger: Feat: Warden's Courage: Now also reduces the damage resistance penalty of Throw Caution by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Hunter Ranger: Hindering Shot: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The AoE targeting FX now more accurately represent the area that will be hit.
Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Damage increased ~33%. Damage reduction for striking more than 1 target reduced to 5% per target, down from 7.5%.
Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Recharge time reduced to 8s, down from 14s.
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Damage resistance debuff reduced by 10% (now 15% at Rank 4, down from 25%).
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Now deals damage to a single target in addition to its existing effects. Animation/FX updated to match this new functionality.
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Recharge time reduced to 12s, down from 20s.
Also, we're getting really close to the end of the time when I can make changes to this module. I'm already making producers look at me funny putting so many changes in so late. We've still got a bit of time to fix any large issues, but anything else will probably be waiting until after this module goes live. It's gotta get off to approvals and translations and all that fun stuff.
Thank you guys so much for all of the feedback and discussion we've had about the Hunter Ranger, it's been an immense help.
Nice changes. I love the Thorn Strike, Aspect Of The Falcon buff.
That archery capstone needed to be done ( as I said previously from before ), so that's out of the way...
Aim Shot buff reduced again!? That's just awesome ( non-sarcasm ), 1 second down from 2.25 is absolutely huge..this could make it very much viable in PvP, especially with the Archery Tree.
Don't really know on how buffing throw caution is beneficial what so ever..especially in PvP ~ it's way too risky and clunky. Moving towards that buff would have to reduce the cast time on Split The Sky by an additional 0.5 seconds..if you don't, In my opinion, is still gonna be a useless power, but let's see what happens when we all start testing.
I know you are almost done with the changes and it is close to the module but there's seriously one last change(s) that need to be done.
Option 1. Swiftness Of The Fox's At-Will cooldown reduction needs to be removed completely. You can keep the other existing affects but it will literally be game breaking in both PvE and PvP if you don't change it. It's pushing towards more perma control which leads to an even MORE Over Powered Class ( with these additional buffs ) and leads to more of people complaining on future forum posts about it, which is not what we all want to see ( or even hear when people play over Teamspeak, Discord etc ).
Or
Option 2. ( As what @ralexinor said ) Thorned Roots should not be affected by Dread Enchantment as it is NOT an encounter. I understand some of the logic behind it if it is affected but it very much shouldn't be. It increases your ENCOUNTERS critical severity by 75% Not a feat that just gets affected by what procs off encounters that apply Strong Grasping Roots ( with vorpal it increases ALL critical severity by 50%, therefore should be affected towards Thorned Roots ).
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited July 2016
@amenar I fail to see how a thorn strike buff and throw caution is going to somehow make combat viable. Nice, low CD, but it's never going to keep up with what a CW/SW/GWF can toss out.
And using throw caution to make yourself nice and squishy in a T2. You're only begging to die.
I still keep wondering why you're so adamant on keeping the HR's melee at-wills below a competitive level. Combat needs viable at-will damage to make up for the lack of decent melee powers the HR possesses.
I'm not just complaining. I have tried to make combat work since mod 6's massive HP pools on mobs destroyed the tree for good. There was no way to maintain any decent DPS aside from going hybrid and spamming rain of arrows and waiting for plant growth to go on CD. Flurry and the at-wills weren't working as their DPS was way way below normal at-will DPS across all classes.
So, it looks like we are almost out of time after all. My congratulations to those of you who suggested we hold off providing (dissenting) feedback, claiming there was no need to do it until much later. Thank goodness at least some people didn't listen to such a terrible and self-defeating suggestion.
1) I don't agree at all that the cooldown reduction coming from at wills via swiftness needs to be removed. Firstly, it doesn't make trappers any stronger in PVE or PVP than they are now, and it's already been agreed that even with 'broken' swiftness they needed a mild buff.
The fact that trappers may have to resort to using weak at-wills to reduce their encounter cooldowns means they will be worse off than they are now on live. That's because the time we will have to spend using weak attacks to reduce our cooldowns was previously spent using the much better encounter powers. That means the damage, control and defensive benefits we get from encounters are all already reduced over a given period of time, and they don't need to be reduced any more.
As several people have already pointed out, perma-control is no longer an issue for properly geared characters in PVP. This complaint about perma-control seems much more about people wanting to gear differently or other classes worrying that their current dominance might be challenged, than because trappers will somehow become unmanageable by other classes in PVP. Use gear which provides control resistance and you (still) won't have anything to worry about. Trapper control is not being made any stronger than it already is.
2) I also don't agree with the proposal that weapon enchantments should no longer affect critical severity for thorned roots. That change seems like it would result in a substantial reduction to damage output which is not compensated for by the modest buffs to damage we've gotten for core trapper encounter powers. As other people have already pointed out, it's also a massively expensive change to spring on players who invested in those enchantments.
The point of these changes was not to make trappers less competitive. Some of you still believe that combat and archery are still too far behind trappers, and I agree with that. But the answer is not nerfing the trapper path, it's improving the other paths so they are on par. So buckle down and work out some better ways to improve those paths rather than trying to slip in these massive nerfs at five minutes to midnight. Otherwise we will end up with three uncompetitive paths rather than just the two we have now. Ideally, there would be none.
3) Please leave action point generation from careful attack alone. It's one of the few benefits pathfinder has over stormwarden at the moment. The way it currently works means being able to use a daily as part of each rotation but only in very large group fights against a boss monster. HR dailies already do very little damage compared to their own encounters, so they add little even when they can be cast frequently. In particular, slasher's mark, which has a very short duration now will become much less useful if the time to refill the action point bar becomes significantly longer than the duration of that buff.
I fear that those latest changes risk making Aimed Shot too powerful (I know.. I'm being serious tho), and Archery to tied to it, but I guess we'll have to see in practice. The melee version didn't receive nearly as much attention, as a metaphor for Combat's changes as a whole being rather unsatisfactory. Most of our melee at-wills still are too weak, and this will affect Combat the most. At least now, Combat may consider 2 other powers (TC for pve, and Thorn Strike), but its still pretty limited and it still needs to deal w/ weak filler dmg.
Oh well.. at least Combat retains its tankiness w/ AotLW, and 2 strong dps trees are better than the 1 we had before.
I fear that those latest changes risk making Aimed Shot too powerful (I know.. I'm being serious tho), but I guess we'll have to see in practice. The melee version didn't receive nearly as much attention, as an allegory for Combat's changes as a whole being rather unsatisfactory. Most of our melee at-wills still are too weak, and this will affect Combat the most. At least now, Combat may consider 2 other powers (TC for pve, and Thorn Strike), but its still pretty limited and it still needs to deal w/ weak filler dmg
Oh well, at least Combat retains its tankiness w/ AotLW, and 2 strong dps trees are better than the 1 we had before.
I'm really frustrated that aimed shot got so much attention. Combat bat pretty much nothing, I doubt that old 50% buff to CtG is going to cut it. Archery got some attention, why not combat!?
1200ish damage to 1800. That's still about half a GWF's WMS that's about 3200-3600, and the GWF destroyer can buff itself way beyond what combat is capable of.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
It makes sense to me that all damage done as the result of an encounter power should be affected by a weapon enchantment.
Roots =/= an encounter power. It's a proc off of an encounter power. The dread enchantment specifies that it affects encounter powers, not procs. Bonus damage from procs do not generally apply the effect of weapon enchantments, and this doesn't seem like a different case than most. There's also a long history of removing the ability to crit from procs like this. Most recently it was Lostmauth, previously it's been a number of other things.
Yeah, I've been paying attention here and my suggestion was to get rid of thorned roots entirely and just buff the class' base damage by an equivalent amount. But removing it in this instance calls for large buffs to the rooting encounters (and we haven't seen any sizeable ones so far) and I'm not thrilled at the idea of losing so much of my DPS, particularly in pvp where HR damage will continue to be anemic. The Lostmauth nerf was done because it made that artifact set the only real choice and therefore threw the game out of balance. It was not an issue of a coding principle. The dread enchant's effect applying to Thorned Roots doesn't do that. It's a non-issue and, as far as I know, working as intended.
I like the changes. I just do not think they are enough. I am betting I can build a DC or GF that does way more damage than HR or SW.
Not sure about SW, but my righteous DC would have no trouble making my HR if going combat laughable. With better survivability with almost half the HP I may add. Buffs/Debuffs. Who would you rather have in a party...?
i guess i will give root-less trapper with archery piercing damages a try. Aimed shot starts to appear interesting too. thanks for your changes. archery can be good but those cooldown arent really helping...lets see if it comes with some unexpected burst
edit: just played around a bit as archery.. i really dont know..without thorn ward is really bad (its really a go to encounter)
So, it looks like we are almost out of time after all. My congratulations to those of you who suggested we hold off providing (dissenting) feedback, claiming there was no need to do it until much later. Thank goodness at least some people didn't listen to such a terrible and self-defeating suggestion.
1) I don't agree at all that the cooldown reduction coming from at wills via swiftness needs to be removed. Firstly, it doesn't make trappers any stronger in PVE or PVP than they are now, and it's already been agreed that even with 'broken' swiftness they needed a mild buff.
The fact that trappers may have to resort to using weak at-wills to reduce their encounter cooldowns means they will be worse off than they are now on live. That's because the time we will have to spend using weak attacks to reduce our cooldowns was previously spent using the much better encounter powers. That means the damage, control and defensive benefits we get from encounters are all already reduced over a given period of time, and they don't need to be reduced any more.
As several people have already pointed out, perma-control is no longer an issue for properly geared characters in PVP. This complaint about perma-control seems much more about people wanting to gear differently or other classes worrying that their current dominance might be challenged, than because trappers will somehow become unmanageable by other classes in PVP. Use gear which provides control resistance and you (still) won't have anything to worry about. Trapper control is not being made any stronger than it already is.
2) I also don't agree with the proposal that weapon enchantments should no longer affect critical severity for thorned roots. That change seems like it would result in a substantial reduction to damage output which is not compensated for by the modest buffs to damage we've gotten for core trapper encounter powers. As other people have already pointed out, it's also a massively expensive change to spring on players who invested in those enchantments.
The point of these changes was not to make trappers less competitive. Some of you still believe that combat and archery are still too far behind trappers, and I agree with that. But the answer is not nerfing the trapper path, it's improving the other paths so they are on par. So buckle down and work out some better ways to improve those paths rather than trying to slip in these massive nerfs at five minutes to midnight. Otherwise we will end up with three uncompetitive paths rather than just the two we have now. Ideally, there would be none.
3) Please leave action point generation from careful attack alone. It's one of the few benefits pathfinder has over stormwarden at the moment. The way it currently works means being able to use a daily as part of each rotation but only in very large group fights against a boss monster. HR dailies already do very little damage compared to their own encounters, so they add little even when they can be cast frequently. In particular, slasher's mark, which has a very short duration now will become much less useful if the time to refill the action point bar becomes significantly longer than the duration of that buff.
Thanks.
I totally agree with the cooldowns from At-wills. Devs claimed we were weak as is, now they slow us down even more? I thought this was supposed to help HR's as a whole, not shoot one in the foot and give the other two ammo.
@raisinghelll from what i can see trappers are now stronger than before. I mean weaker in aoe but definitely stronger in single target when swiftness of the fox really start to rock. I like it. Finally i can throw a couple of at will without feeling im wasting time. Hunter's teamwork for example debuffs enemy damage... should be ok as filler. combat got 0 ammo btw so i really dont know what you are talking about. Archery got a nice at will for some burst and a chance at pvp where the penalty on the capstone was really not helping at all. In the end im expecting lower damage from trapper in a dungeon run. Higher in single target fights (than before). Archery will still underperform but is definitely better than before. The trapper rework on the capstone allows us to not take anymore longer roots duration (by feat) and this can lead to a couple of different builds. for example im planning to take 15 points in archery ditching forestbound, serpent's bite and ancient roots. Aspect of the falcon seems nice but is probably worth a try. I would prefer skirmisher's gambit but 50% more critical severity cant compensate a 10% crit chance lost ( since im not abusing bondings). thorned roots should be finally fixed to keep ticking on enemies wearing elven battle.
BUG: Thorned Roots is affected by the dread enchantment crit severity. Thorned Roots is not an encounter, so it should not be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
Also Thorned Roots is affected by damage buffs and many other similar effects aren't, so I'm not sure if it's intended or not either. I remember some powers from other classes were changed not to be affected.
i believe the way it is phrased states that thorned roots is an encounter power... the thorned roots feat states that your strong grasping roots are upgraded to thorned roots. so when you use an encounter with strong grasping roots it is instead applying thorned roots not strong in the first place. so to say thorned roots is not part of the encoutner is incorrect. therefor dread enchantment should be affected by it.
Easy solution, make it increase directly all melee at will damage by %250.
More complex one, Your melee encounters are improved and changed their effects.( so you can introduce new melee at wills that are stronger and probably debuff applier only for melee HRs).
Another suggestion for Trappper this time,
Even though we havent tested them yet, I believe that Thorned Roots applying dots for longer and in a more consistent way is positive, yet it is not the right to go, or lets say it needs improvements. Thorned Roots instead have increased weapon damage, or it should be able to stacked (in damage) while a second Thorned Roots effect is applied. Otherwise there is no reason to apply anothet Thorned Roots cause it is only a reapply to Thorned Roots damage, yet many encounters right now on PC doesnt even give HRs a chance to deal the fully benefited damage over time from Thorned Roots, so it would be nice to have more damage directly coming from it or, let us stack Thorned Roots so we could find another chance to increase our damage as the battle extends.
Commanding Shot, we should probably test this first, yet Reduce animation timeeee yellings are on the way.
For a final comment, an aoe change must be applied to Predator, like a secondary effect that doesnt stay long as primary effect, yet to give archers a chance to increase aoe damage output.
Thanks for reading.
i like the idea you had of having thorned roots stack
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thatsmeaswellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 60Arc User
Stacking thorned roots is a nice idea to give the trappwr some serious damage but may be a little bit overpowered. So two or maybe three stacks would be the max, else damage output would be ridiculous. In addition it would enforce the trapper even more than it is now, making the other trees even less atractive
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torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
I know you are almost done with the changes and it is close to the module but there's seriously one last change(s) that need to be done.
Option 1. Swiftness Of The Fox's At-Will cooldown reduction needs to be removed completely. You can keep the other existing affects but it will literally be game breaking in both PvE and PvP if you don't change it. It's pushing towards more perma control which leads to an even MORE Over Powered Class ( with these additional buffs ) and leads to more of people complaining on future forum posts about it, which is not what we all want to see ( or even hear when people play over Teamspeak, Discord etc ).
Or
Option 2. ( As what @ralexinor said ) Thorned Roots should not be affected by Dread Enchantment as it is NOT an encounter. I understand some of the logic behind it if it is affected but it very much shouldn't be. It increases your ENCOUNTERS critical severity by 75% Not a feat that just gets affected by what procs off encounters that apply Strong Grasping Roots ( with vorpal it increases ALL critical severity by 50%, therefore should be affected towards Thorned Roots ).
When Rookz says an HR is moving towards even "more perma control which leads to an even MORE Over Powered Class" I hope you are listening @amenar =D
The last thing PVP HR's need is more perma control, and rookz is one of the better ones. ;D
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
Hey all - I know you're still waiting for the previous set of changes to hit preview, but here's another set. Note that they won't be in the build that should be hitting "soon(TM)" but in the NEXT built that goes to preview.
Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: Charge time further reduced by 0.5s, down to 1s at Rank 4. Damage of the actual hit reduced slightly, but damage per cast time increased ~23%.
Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: It should now be easier to chain other powers after casting Aimed Shot.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Now also increases your Ranged powers damage based on the distance to your target. Damage is increased by 1% for every 5' away you are from your target.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Rank 4 now properly increases your range by an additional 3'.
Hunter Ranger: Cordon of Arrows: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hunter Ranger: Feat: Predator: This Feat is no longer half as effective against players.
Hunter Ranger: Feat: Warden's Courage: Now also reduces the damage resistance penalty of Throw Caution by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Hunter Ranger: Hindering Shot: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The AoE targeting FX now more accurately represent the area that will be hit.
Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Damage increased ~33%. Damage reduction for striking more than 1 target reduced to 5% per target, down from 7.5%.
Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Recharge time reduced to 8s, down from 14s.
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Damage resistance debuff reduced by 10% (now 15% at Rank 4, down from 25%).
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Now deals damage to a single target in addition to its existing effects. Animation/FX updated to match this new functionality.
Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Recharge time reduced to 12s, down from 20s.
Also, we're getting really close to the end of the time when I can make changes to this module. I'm already making producers look at me funny putting so many changes in so late. We've still got a bit of time to fix any large issues, but anything else will probably be waiting until after this module goes live. It's gotta get off to approvals and translations and all that fun stuff.
Thank you guys so much for all of the feedback and discussion we've had about the Hunter Ranger, it's been an immense help.
@amenar Some nice changes here thx, the Archery got some stuff to test, there still a few stuff left still:
1. The Combat capstone still need a rework/buff to catch up with the other two trees 2. Cordon of Arrows the charge refill time need a cooldown reduction. 3. Forest Meditation, instead of +100% deflect give us invulnerability until the skill last. 4. Battlehoned need a rework. For example grant 10% stamina regen, and +2,5% stamina regen per rank. 5. Cruel Recovery need a boost. For example: When you deal critical damage to an enemy, gain 3% of your maximum hit points as special temporary hit points and 5% movement speed.
I know you are almost done with the changes and it is close to the module but there's seriously one last change(s) that need to be done.
Option 1. Swiftness Of The Fox's At-Will cooldown reduction needs to be removed completely. You can keep the other existing affects but it will literally be game breaking in both PvE and PvP if you don't change it. It's pushing towards more perma control which leads to an even MORE Over Powered Class ( with these additional buffs ) and leads to more of people complaining on future forum posts about it, which is not what we all want to see ( or even hear when people play over Teamspeak, Discord etc ).
Or
Option 2. ( As what @ralexinor said ) Thorned Roots should not be affected by Dread Enchantment as it is NOT an encounter. I understand some of the logic behind it if it is affected but it very much shouldn't be. It increases your ENCOUNTERS critical severity by 75% Not a feat that just gets affected by what procs off encounters that apply Strong Grasping Roots ( with vorpal it increases ALL critical severity by 50%, therefore should be affected towards Thorned Roots ).
When Rookz says an HR is moving towards even "more perma control which leads to an even MORE Over Powered Class" I hope you are listening @amenar =D
The last thing PVP HR's need is more perma control, and rookz is one of the better ones. ;D
thier is no perma control from hr's (thier is no perma control in pvp if you are wearing the right gear that is) and at wills will change nothing in that. cause dailies supply enough cooldown that most trappers will still not use any at wills. the only way to control with an hr is to use roots or crits and none of the at wills does roots so crits are the only way to get any cc in pvp but it wont make hr's do more towards what you said about perma controlled. most of the pvp players i ask in the live servers say that they never get perma controlled expect maybe by a cw but that is what they are their for so its understandable.
whitespicyrice is wrong however, about thorned roots though since it is an encounter. the feat thorned roots says upgrade your strong grasping roots to thorned roots. that means trappers don't even have strong grasping roots anymore but thorned roots. and effects that trigger from strong grasping roots are not triggering from thorned roots cause they share the same proc'ing.
Comments
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If they are what are the results of the latest change? I did not see any testing comments about it other than people asking for a NERF.
If the change is live does the classic trapper rotation still work? Will we have to deal with cool downs?
Thanks!
Ara
- Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: Charge time further reduced by 0.5s, down to 1s at Rank 4. Damage of the actual hit reduced slightly, but damage per cast time increased ~23%.
- Hunter Ranger: Aimed Shot: It should now be easier to chain other powers after casting Aimed Shot.
- Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Now also increases your Ranged powers damage based on the distance to your target. Damage is increased by 1% for every 5' away you are from your target.
- Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Falcon: Rank 4 now properly increases your range by an additional 3'.
- Hunter Ranger: Cordon of Arrows: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
- Hunter Ranger: Feat: Predator: This Feat is no longer half as effective against players.
- Hunter Ranger: Feat: Warden's Courage: Now also reduces the damage resistance penalty of Throw Caution by 1/2/3/4/5%.
- Hunter Ranger: Hindering Shot: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
- Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The AoE targeting FX now more accurately represent the area that will be hit.
- Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Damage increased ~33%. Damage reduction for striking more than 1 target reduced to 5% per target, down from 7.5%.
- Hunter Ranger: Thorn Strike: Recharge time reduced to 8s, down from 14s.
- Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Damage resistance debuff reduced by 10% (now 15% at Rank 4, down from 25%).
- Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Now deals damage to a single target in addition to its existing effects. Animation/FX updated to match this new functionality.
- Hunter Ranger: Throw Caution: Recharge time reduced to 12s, down from 20s.
Also, we're getting really close to the end of the time when I can make changes to this module. I'm already making producers look at me funny putting so many changes in so late.Thank you guys so much for all of the feedback and discussion we've had about the Hunter Ranger, it's been an immense help.
Thanks for all the listening, that's fantastic. Bit sad that there won't be too many more changes, but I'm still very glad for everything you've done so far!
Just a few things:
BUG: Thorned Roots is affected by the dread enchantment crit severity. Thorned roots is not an encounter, so it should not be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as gwf Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
Also Thorned Roots is affected by damage buffs and many other similar effects aren't, so I'm not sure if it's intended or not either. I remember some powers from other classes were changed not to be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots is affected by the dread enchantment crit severity. Thorned Roots is not an encounter, so it should not be affected.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
Also Thorned Roots is affected by damage buffs and many other similar effects aren't, so I'm not sure if it's intended or not either. I remember some powers from other classes were changed not to be affected.
@amenar said the following in the HR blog: "while a certain build (The Trapper Thorned Roots build) allows them to get close to competitive with other classes, any deviation from that very specific (and a wee bit broken) build would greatly reduce their effectiveness".
In their opinion the trapper was close to being competitive. Changing the roots mechanics doesn't go with their vision at all for the class.
Character: Vendetta
It makes sense to me that all damage done as the result of an encounter power should be affected by a weapon enchantment.
Character: Vendetta
That archery capstone needed to be done ( as I said previously from before ), so that's out of the way...
Aim Shot buff reduced again!? That's just awesome ( non-sarcasm ), 1 second down from 2.25 is absolutely huge..this could make it very much viable in PvP, especially with the Archery Tree.
Don't really know on how buffing throw caution is beneficial what so ever..especially in PvP ~ it's way too risky and clunky. Moving towards that buff would have to reduce the cast time on Split The Sky by an additional 0.5 seconds..if you don't, In my opinion, is still gonna be a useless power, but let's see what happens when we all start testing.
I know you are almost done with the changes and it is close to the module but there's seriously one last change(s) that need to be done.
Option 1. Swiftness Of The Fox's At-Will cooldown reduction needs to be removed completely. You can keep the other existing affects but it will literally be game breaking in both PvE and PvP if you don't change it. It's pushing towards more perma control which leads to an even MORE Over Powered Class ( with these additional buffs ) and leads to more of people complaining on future forum posts about it, which is not what we all want to see ( or even hear when people play over Teamspeak, Discord etc ).
Or
Option 2. ( As what @ralexinor said ) Thorned Roots should not be affected by Dread Enchantment as it is NOT an encounter. I understand some of the logic behind it if it is affected but it very much shouldn't be. It increases your ENCOUNTERS critical severity by 75% Not a feat that just gets affected by what procs off encounters that apply Strong Grasping Roots ( with vorpal it increases ALL critical severity by 50%, therefore should be affected towards Thorned Roots ).
And using throw caution to make yourself nice and squishy in a T2. You're only begging to die.
I still keep wondering why you're so adamant on keeping the HR's melee at-wills below a competitive level. Combat needs viable at-will damage to make up for the lack of decent melee powers the HR possesses.
I'm not just complaining. I have tried to make combat work since mod 6's massive HP pools on mobs destroyed the tree for good. There was no way to maintain any decent DPS aside from going hybrid and spamming rain of arrows and waiting for plant growth to go on CD. Flurry and the at-wills weren't working as their DPS was way way below normal at-will DPS across all classes.
1) I don't agree at all that the cooldown reduction coming from at wills via swiftness needs to be removed. Firstly, it doesn't make trappers any stronger in PVE or PVP than they are now, and it's already been agreed that even with 'broken' swiftness they needed a mild buff.
The fact that trappers may have to resort to using weak at-wills to reduce their encounter cooldowns means they will be worse off than they are now on live. That's because the time we will have to spend using weak attacks to reduce our cooldowns was previously spent using the much better encounter powers. That means the damage, control and defensive benefits we get from encounters are all already reduced over a given period of time, and they don't need to be reduced any more.
As several people have already pointed out, perma-control is no longer an issue for properly geared characters in PVP. This complaint about perma-control seems much more about people wanting to gear differently or other classes worrying that their current dominance might be challenged, than because trappers will somehow become unmanageable by other classes in PVP. Use gear which provides control resistance and you (still) won't have anything to worry about. Trapper control is not being made any stronger than it already is.
2) I also don't agree with the proposal that weapon enchantments should no longer affect critical severity for thorned roots. That change seems like it would result in a substantial reduction to damage output which is not compensated for by the modest buffs to damage we've gotten for core trapper encounter powers. As other people have already pointed out, it's also a massively expensive change to spring on players who invested in those enchantments.
The point of these changes was not to make trappers less competitive. Some of you still believe that combat and archery are still too far behind trappers, and I agree with that. But the answer is not nerfing the trapper path, it's improving the other paths so they are on par. So buckle down and work out some better ways to improve those paths rather than trying to slip in these massive nerfs at five minutes to midnight. Otherwise we will end up with three uncompetitive paths rather than just the two we have now. Ideally, there would be none.
3) Please leave action point generation from careful attack alone. It's one of the few benefits pathfinder has over stormwarden at the moment. The way it currently works means being able to use a daily as part of each rotation but only in very large group fights against a boss monster. HR dailies already do very little damage compared to their own encounters, so they add little even when they can be cast frequently. In particular, slasher's mark, which has a very short duration now will become much less useful if the time to refill the action point bar becomes significantly longer than the duration of that buff.
Thanks.
Oh well.. at least Combat retains its tankiness w/ AotLW, and 2 strong dps trees are better than the 1 we had before.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
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1200ish damage to 1800. That's still about half a GWF's WMS that's about 3200-3600, and the GWF destroyer can buff itself way beyond what combat is capable of.
archery can be good but those cooldown arent really helping...lets see if it comes with some unexpected burst
edit: just played around a bit as archery.. i really dont know..without thorn ward is really bad (its really a go to encounter)
from what i can see trappers are now stronger than before. I mean weaker in aoe but definitely stronger in single target when swiftness of the fox really start to rock. I like it. Finally i can throw a couple of at will without feeling im wasting time. Hunter's teamwork for example debuffs enemy damage... should be ok as filler.
combat got 0 ammo btw so i really dont know what you are talking about.
Archery got a nice at will for some burst and a chance at pvp where the penalty on the capstone was really not helping at all.
In the end im expecting lower damage from trapper in a dungeon run. Higher in single target fights (than before).
Archery will still underperform but is definitely better than before.
The trapper rework on the capstone allows us to not take anymore longer roots duration (by feat) and this can lead to a couple of different builds.
for example im planning to take 15 points in archery ditching forestbound, serpent's bite and ancient roots.
Aspect of the falcon seems nice but is probably worth a try.
I would prefer skirmisher's gambit but 50% more critical severity cant compensate a 10% crit chance lost ( since im not abusing bondings).
thorned roots should be finally fixed to keep ticking on enemies wearing elven battle.
The last thing PVP HR's need is more perma control, and rookz is one of the better ones. ;D
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Thanks for all the fish.
Some nice changes here thx, the Archery got some stuff to test, there still a few stuff left still:
1. The Combat capstone still need a rework/buff to catch up with the other two trees
2. Cordon of Arrows the charge refill time need a cooldown reduction.
3. Forest Meditation, instead of +100% deflect give us invulnerability until the skill last.
4. Battlehoned need a rework. For example grant 10% stamina regen, and +2,5% stamina regen per rank.
5. Cruel Recovery need a boost. For example: When you deal critical damage to an enemy, gain 3% of your maximum hit points as special temporary hit points and 5% movement speed.
whitespicyrice is wrong however, about thorned roots though since it is an encounter. the feat thorned roots says upgrade your strong grasping roots to thorned roots. that means trappers don't even have strong grasping roots anymore but thorned roots. and effects that trigger from strong grasping roots are not triggering from thorned roots cause they share the same proc'ing.