I have some concerns that if they reduce our single target DPS too much, we will struggle to hold aggro with the really HDPS strikers.
I was having a hard time just now in CN holding aggro with a 4.2K GWF. (was running KV, LS and ITF with enhanced mark)
But I'm not sure how they balance that and fix the issue with PvP.
I slot lunging strike for mobility, I'd like to see its DPS (i.e. damage and cooldown) stay as is or have the aggro building component of aggravating strike increased to offset the reduced single target DPS. I don't think aggravating strike would cause too many problems in PvP.
you already said it, ITF doesn't provide that huge of a buff in module 10, so the group members damage will be lower, so you wont have any problems holding the aggro , i doubt anyone can still the aggro from a GF as long as you remember to MARK the boss. i think it was against a boss what you mentioned.
Unless it's a dumb GWF that's using their taunt on the boss : \
pretty sure if a GWF marks the boss , while it's been already marked by a GF , the aggro from a TANK will never be taken away.
Feedback: Feat: Wrathful Warrior When you have Temporary Hitpoints you deal 3/6/9/12/15% more damage.
This feat is not actual now. If GF come in combat, Temporary Hitpoints exist only a moment.
Feat need rework. For example: - When you take Temporary Hitpoints, you deal 3/6/9/12/15% more damage for 10 second. This effect not stack.
This change make feat more playable and symbiotic.
I like this ^^
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited July 2016
About tide of iron seems dev have no idea that is not so easy to cast it both and pve. yes itf needed a "fix" but what is that now. 1. TRY tide of iron vs orcus 2. try tide of iron in pvp! YOU change it like gf spam it without problems............. AND the most important you forgot: is single target ! What is your goal trying to make the game less teamwork?
Feedback: Nice changes but Knight's Challenge needs to be looked at too. We have tested on PTR and GF with KC is still able to consistently one shot a fully geared GWF with just one daily "Indomitable Strength". (GWF is with full tenacity gear lionsmere+2 rosegold ring, 200k HP, 8.8K defense) It usually takes 80-100% of the above geared GWF which means it will pretty much one shot kill 99% other GWFs, with just one daily... doesnt even need anvil to finish up....
YES finish off gf. Knight challenge need hands to play it. FOR example if he cast knight challenge on you enemies still can control him. IN THAT case you will kill gf 1 rotation x2 damage. PLUS the casting time is awful!
you already said it, ITF doesn't provide that huge of a buff in module 10, so the group members damage will be lower, so you wont have any problems holding the aggro , i doubt anyone can steal the aggro from a GF as long as you remember to MARK the boss. i think it was against a boss what you mentioned.
Threat for both tank classes still needs to be looked at imo. It hasn't changed in years, yet dps keeps piling bigger numbers on.
I don´t get why they change tide of Iron it´s a nice little debuff, although i only use it on orcus to keep my shield up and because it doesn't get me killed, otherwise I use threatening rush
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited July 2016
Seems you have the right as an old set user to apply 30% debuffs( WITH hp boon you live) but a gf risking get killed need to be for hiself:) cryptic logic:)!
I have some concerns that if they reduce our single target DPS too much, we will struggle to hold aggro with the really HDPS strikers.
I was having a hard time just now in CN holding aggro with a 4.2K GWF. (was running KV, LS and ITF with enhanced mark)
But I'm not sure how they balance that and fix the issue with PvP.
I slot lunging strike for mobility, I'd like to see its DPS (i.e. damage and cooldown) stay as is or have the aggro building component of aggravating strike increased to offset the reduced single target DPS. I don't think aggravating strike would cause too many problems in PvP.
you already said it, ITF doesn't provide that huge of a buff in module 10, so the group members damage will be lower, so you wont have any problems holding the aggro , i doubt anyone can still the aggro from a GF as long as you remember to MARK the boss. i think it was against a boss what you mentioned.
Unless it's a dumb GWF that's using their taunt on the boss : \
pretty sure if a GWF marks the boss , while it's been already marked by a GF , the aggro from a TANK will never be taken away.
All they'd really have to do is taunt when you're popping ITF and land a big hit.
Why a GWF would use DS on a single hostile with a GF is beyond me, they probably deserve to get smacked by said hostile.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Just nerf the weapon damage, bring down itf to 40%, and remove KC in pvp. And then take all these changes and remove them and go get ice cream. GF still is viable in pvp as burst damage, just not 2 shotting people. And in PVE it still can apply its best debuff, and damage buff like it has since mod 0. Don't reinvent the wheel, just use your heads.... (I know that is challenging)
i think you really dont know whats going on on gf, can you tell me your main class? np ill ask for nerf too
Just remove KC from PvP? How would you suggest they do that, just ghost it out while flagged for PvP?
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
next move: remove mark totaly buy gwf booster pack and you have mark again hahhaha.
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
There is only one thing Cryptic could do to kill GF in a single move and that would be to change AP gain to that generated after shield mitigation, that is based on actual damage taken.
Some of the changes are unpalatable (such as Lunging Strike, Tide of Iron losing party debuff and WMS) but they've thrown us several bones, some of which will get nerfed in the future. The class still looks very viable and as @checkmatein3 mentioned, I'll still be using my GF as my main and adapt to the changes.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
On preview right now and Lunging Strike is 8 seconds, my ITF is same at 10 seconds.
I'm destroying stuff in WoD a lot quicker with Cleave even though I lack Guild boons such as Rank 6 Stable.
Steel Blitz and Steel Grace (which seems to add 5% crit, 5% deflect and the movement rate increase is very nice) Steel Blitz and Shield Warriors Wrath against targets that force me to use my shield such as White Dragonwings.
If the changes to WMS get undone I'd still prefer to use that although I'm not finding it too bad, several mods ago wrongly or rightly I noticed mobs were moving behind me when I don't recall them doing that before, this is where the changes to WMS would really hurt as your forced to attack in a direction you don't want to.
Also bear in mind I use a trans lightning, the cooldown increase on encounters is very very noticeable when surrounded by trash so a good AoE at-will is necessary to make the most of it.
Steel Blitz: Only procs on strike not when damage dealt, either change the wording so it reflects this or make it chance to proc off of dot tics eg jagged blades / knee breaker / anvil etc. - Looks like some times it procs on some hits of crescendo/flourish other than just when power just activates??
Anvil of doom: please fix the bug where if you are jumping when you activate power will cause you to miss
Marking targets: reduce animation time for mark
Villains menace: reduce animation time for it, have it actually make you immune to cc like it states
ITF: you have nerfed it rightly so, please allow it to be used while moving
Shield bug: there is some interaction with HR roots and other cc that prevents you raising the shield after a first instance of cc has been applied to the GF.. codewise - in a race condition a GF putting his shield up should have precedence over incoming attacks, just like the immunity frame for cw/tr/dc etc
wrathful warrior: this feat has been broken since before the dawn of time, please change it like the earlier suggestion of "when gf gains temp hp, gf gains wrathful warrior for 10 secs" job done
I like the idea of activating ITF while moving. I play GF ever since and was shocked how useful and convenient this change was when applied to marking.
Using mark while moving was a GREAT idea, and it somehow changed the game for me, made it much more dynamic and fun! Making ITF usable while moving will be another great step towards above mentioned fun of play
Reducing animation time for VM is badly needed, the fact is that after the duration is reduced we will loose even more utility of this skill due to the fact that after animation is done we're shorter under it's effect.
I will second the note about Tide of Iron, making it only "useful" for the caster is a bad idea and will lead to another not usable skill both PVE and PVP wise.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
FEEDBACK: KNIGHTS CHALLANGE The effectivity of this power in PvP has to be diminished or else the state of GF in PvP will not change, using Knight's Challange GF is still able to clear anybody even using at-wills like Crushing Surge is becoming slaughterhouse.
*NOTE if this gets tonned down in PVP , most of the GF on conquerer will go for more of a offensive build, which this makes a huge difference in them givin away some of their defensive stats, this can only improve the PvP stage, and makin the other 2 paragons relevant aswell.
nope, offense slot is diff than def slot. this will only hurt GF more in the future and kill it
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I like the idea of activating ITF while moving. I play GF ever since and was shocked how useful and convenient this change was when applied to marking.
Using mark while moving was a GREAT idea, and it somehow changed the game for me, made it much more dynamic and fun! Making ITF usable while moving will be another great step towards above mentioned fun of play
Reducing animation time for VM is badly needed, the fact is that after the duration is reduced we will loose even more utility of this skill due to the fact that after animation is done we're shorter under it's effect.
I will second the note about Tide of Iron, making it only "useful" for the caster is a bad idea and will lead to another not usable skill both PVE and PVP wise.
I also like the idea of ITF being able to activate on the move just like KV.
+1
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forumnamesuxsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 490Arc User
edited July 2016
Feedback: Forward step on at-will when the game wrongfully thinks you are not near your target. Have you ever been standing in front of a group of mobs, trying to keep them focused on you, and then thought to yourself "oh boy, i'm so glad i'm suddenly standing right in the middle of this group i foolishly tried to keep in front of me", or "oh yes, I sure am glad this boss is suddenly behind me and got to punch me in my back". No? Well, I for one would like to see this little at-will mechanic go. Not once have an at-will forward step been a welcome occurence. Not once have I ever used an at-will from a position I want to move out of, as a tank. Not once has it been helpfull. It has however, gotten me cc'd, with the resulting loss of KV, and in PvP it will sometimes, not often, but sometimes get me killed.
Wolves, big as a horse! I need new pants!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Feedback: Forward step on at-will when the game wrongfully thinks you are not near your target. Have you ever been standing in front of a group of mobs, trying to keep them focused on you, and then thought to yourself "oh boy, i'm so glad i'm suddenly standing right in the middle of this group i foolishly tried to keep in front of me", or "oh yes, I sure am glad this boss is suddenly behind me and got to punch me in my back". No? Well, I for one would like to see this little at-will mechanic go. Not once have an at-will forward step been a welcome occurence. Not once have I ever used an at-will from a position I want to move out of, as a tank. Not once has it been helpfull. It has however, gotten me cc'd, with the resulting loss of KV, and in PvP it will sometimes, not often, but sometimes get me killed.
Omg yes! Using aggravating strike can be so frustrating when you miss then fly forward and all the mobs are stabbing you in the back afterwards!
Feedback: Forward step on at-will when the game wrongfully thinks you are not near your target. Have you ever been standing in front of a group of mobs, trying to keep them focused on you, and then thought to yourself "oh boy, i'm so glad i'm suddenly standing right in the middle of this group i foolishly tried to keep in front of me", or "oh yes, I sure am glad this boss is suddenly behind me and got to punch me in my back". No? Well, I for one would like to see this little at-will mechanic go. Not once have an at-will forward step been a welcome occurence. Not once have I ever used an at-will from a position I want to move out of, as a tank. Not once has it been helpfull. It has however, gotten me cc'd, with the resulting loss of KV, and in PvP it will sometimes, not often, but sometimes get me killed.
yes this happens alot using aggravating strike and cleave
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Feedback: Forward step on at-will when the game wrongfully thinks you are not near your target. Have you ever been standing in front of a group of mobs, trying to keep them focused on you, and then thought to yourself "oh boy, i'm so glad i'm suddenly standing right in the middle of this group i foolishly tried to keep in front of me", or "oh yes, I sure am glad this boss is suddenly behind me and got to punch me in my back". No? Well, I for one would like to see this little at-will mechanic go. Not once have an at-will forward step been a welcome occurence. Not once have I ever used an at-will from a position I want to move out of, as a tank. Not once has it been helpfull. It has however, gotten me cc'd, with the resulting loss of KV, and in PvP it will sometimes, not often, but sometimes get me killed.
Hah, I thought this problem largely related to me having stupid fingers or something.
If I want to move my GF, I'll walk. I am very happy to be able to walk while blocking to reposition, but when I am attacking on the GF, I'm generally already in a position I want to hold.
So how do you fix that? Is this resolved better by rooting the character while using an at-will, or by making said at-wills require a target (therefore do nothing if the game parses you as out of range)? Threatening Rush requiring a target is not problematic, in my experience.
I have problems with getting moved to be facing a bad position because the thing I decided to target ran behind me while my power was activating. I chalk a lot of it up to my being fairly average at this class.
Come to think of it, most classes with melee at-wills (sans gap-close) don't move forward if they're going to miss... they just miss.
forumnamesuxsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 490Arc User
edited July 2016
Feedback: Frontline Surge. I do like the changes to this, however, for me to have any reason at all to remain IV after these changes come, it would be that FS also stunns in PvE, or at least only knock them down the way GWF takedown does it, instead of throwing alle the monsters across the room, spreading them out all over the place. The way it works now, and even with the mark and taunt, I will have no room for it amongst my other slotted skills, because even with the heresy you are performing on enforced threat, that one will still be a far better option. Knnockbacks in parties is a nope. It creates bad party synergy, and is just terrible. There are already OP's who refuse to stop using relentless on absolutely everything, and I really don't want GF's to become equally painfull to play with.
Its become pointless to invest in Bonding Runestones for support classes.
Most diminishing values and CDs, can be achieved without companion gift.
DC and OP - some of their buffs depend on stat Power and not affected with Companion/Bounding stats.
GF - buff not depend on ANY stat now.... 4k, 2.5k,2k just get enough to enter dungeon and you can provide same buffs as others. No legendary mounts, no Bonding...
Comments
When you have Temporary Hitpoints you deal 3/6/9/12/15% more damage.
This feat is not actual now.
If GF come in combat, Temporary Hitpoints exist only a moment.
Feat need rework. For example:
- When you take Temporary Hitpoints, you deal 3/6/9/12/15% more damage for 10 second. This effect not stack.
This change make feat more playable and symbiotic.
AND the most important you forgot: is single target !
What is your goal trying to make the game less teamwork?
probablydeserve to get smacked by said hostile.Just remove KC from PvP? How would you suggest they do that, just ghost it out while flagged for PvP?
Some of the changes are unpalatable (such as Lunging Strike, Tide of Iron losing party debuff and WMS) but they've thrown us several bones, some of which will get nerfed in the future. The class still looks very viable and as @checkmatein3 mentioned, I'll still be using my GF as my main and adapt to the changes.
I'm destroying stuff in WoD a lot quicker with Cleave even though I lack Guild boons such as Rank 6 Stable.
Steel Blitz and Steel Grace (which seems to add 5% crit, 5% deflect and the movement rate increase is very nice) Steel Blitz and Shield Warriors Wrath against targets that force me to use my shield such as White Dragonwings.
If the changes to WMS get undone I'd still prefer to use that although I'm not finding it too bad, several mods ago wrongly or rightly I noticed mobs were moving behind me when I don't recall them doing that before, this is where the changes to WMS would really hurt as your forced to attack in a direction you don't want to.
Also bear in mind I use a trans lightning, the cooldown increase on encounters is very very noticeable when surrounded by trash so a good AoE at-will is necessary to make the most of it.
Anvil of doom: please fix the bug where if you are jumping when you activate power will cause you to miss
Marking targets: reduce animation time for mark
Villains menace: reduce animation time for it, have it actually make you immune to cc like it states
ITF: you have nerfed it rightly so, please allow it to be used while moving
Shield bug: there is some interaction with HR roots and other cc that prevents you raising the shield after a first instance of cc has been applied to the GF.. codewise - in a race condition a GF putting his shield up should have precedence over incoming attacks, just like the immunity frame for cw/tr/dc etc
wrathful warrior: this feat has been broken since before the dawn of time, please change it like the earlier suggestion of "when gf gains temp hp, gf gains wrathful warrior for 10 secs" job done
Using mark while moving was a GREAT idea, and it somehow changed the game for me, made it much more dynamic and fun!
Making ITF usable while moving will be another great step towards above mentioned fun of play
Reducing animation time for VM is badly needed, the fact is that after the duration is reduced we will loose even more utility of this skill due to the fact that after animation is done we're shorter under it's effect.
I will second the note about Tide of Iron, making it only "useful" for the caster is a bad idea and will lead to another not usable skill both PVE and PVP wise.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
+1
Have you ever been standing in front of a group of mobs, trying to keep them focused on you, and then thought to yourself "oh boy, i'm so glad i'm suddenly standing right in the middle of this group i foolishly tried to keep in front of me", or "oh yes, I sure am glad this boss is suddenly behind me and got to punch me in my back". No?
Well, I for one would like to see this little at-will mechanic go.
Not once have an at-will forward step been a welcome occurence. Not once have I ever used an at-will from a position I want to move out of, as a tank. Not once has it been helpfull. It has however, gotten me cc'd, with the resulting loss of KV, and in PvP it will sometimes, not often, but sometimes get me killed.
If I want to move my GF, I'll walk. I am very happy to be able to walk while blocking to reposition, but when I am attacking on the GF, I'm generally already in a position I want to hold.
So how do you fix that? Is this resolved better by rooting the character while using an at-will, or by making said at-wills require a target (therefore do nothing if the game parses you as out of range)? Threatening Rush requiring a target is not problematic, in my experience.
I have problems with getting moved to be facing a bad position because the thing I decided to target ran behind me while my power was activating. I chalk a lot of it up to my being fairly average at this class.
Come to think of it, most classes with melee at-wills (sans gap-close) don't move forward if they're going to miss... they just miss.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I do like the changes to this, however, for me to have any reason at all to remain IV after these changes come, it would be that FS also stunns in PvE, or at least only knock them down the way GWF takedown does it, instead of throwing alle the monsters across the room, spreading them out all over the place.
The way it works now, and even with the mark and taunt, I will have no room for it amongst my other slotted skills, because even with the heresy you are performing on enforced threat, that one will still be a far better option.
Knnockbacks in parties is a nope. It creates bad party synergy, and is just terrible. There are already OP's who refuse to stop using relentless on absolutely everything, and I really don't want GF's to become equally painfull to play with.
Most diminishing values and CDs, can be achieved without companion gift.
DC and OP - some of their buffs depend on stat Power and not affected with Companion/Bounding stats.
GF - buff not depend on ANY stat now.... 4k, 2.5k,2k just get enough to enter dungeon and you can provide same buffs as others.
No legendary mounts, no Bonding...
Remarkable balance...