This is what will happen with guild alliances

demonmonger · June 2016

Big powerful guild creates a secondary guild with alts and allies with itself.

All existing small guilds will still be alone

silverkelt · June 2016

I dont know, im in crusaders and we have a full gambit of new people on board when it drops, if you look at the alliance page, I think most of the larger guilds are trying to do something similar, the only one I know of that IDK what they are doing is gutbusters atm.

micky1p00 · June 2016

demonmonger said:
Big powerful guild creates a secondary guild with alts and allies with itself.

All existing small guilds will still be alone

Did you take a look at the alliances / guilds forum section? Most of the big alliances are listed there.

plasticbat · June 2016

demonmonger said:
Big powerful guild creates a secondary guild with alts and allies with itself.

All existing small guilds will still be alone

Are you saying one big guild will create 12 alt guilds? Each guild member will have 12 active alts to station in each guild?

oliboyph · June 2016

most of the big guilds have made a conscientious decision to be inclusive and bring it mid to high level guilds at sword and low guilds at gantlet. Of course, not all guilds will be included.

This was always going to be a problem with alliance, if a small guild is not proactive enough to approach an alliance then they won't be able to join one. Don't expect the big guilds to be the ones to reach out to you unless you happen to be an overachieving small to mid level guild.

kvet · June 2016

I disagree with the OP completely. I think the reality is already showing the inaccuracy of this statement. Most of the largest guilds have done exactly the opposite of allying with themselves as a matter of fact.

What has been said though is true - there's tons of little guilds out there. You need to be proactive - don't expect anyone to come knocking. Truth is, the bulk of the larger guilds have already sorted out most, if not all, of their alliances at this point.

rinat114 · June 2016

kvet said:
I disagree with the OP completely. I think the reality is already showing the inaccuracy of this statement. Most of the largest guilds have done exactly the opposite of allying with themselves as a matter of fact.

If it wasn't for so much beef and ego between some guilds I have a feeling the result could have been very, very different and more similar to what the OP had in mind. Yet, the majority of big guilds never got along for competitive, dumb reasons. I've been negotiating for nearly a month straight, the ego some people have is over the top.

mentinmindmaker · June 2016

And what does it matter?

The major power issue with guild level are the boons, and they are not shared in the alliance as far as I know?

For gear there are similar or better options available.

For overload enchantments, food etc you also have good options outside the guilds.

There are some minor advantages to being in an alliance, but being in a small alliance or allianceless is nowhere near game breaking. Which is how it should be.

Unknown · June 2016

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oliboyph · June 2016

rinat114 said:

kvet said:
I disagree with the OP completely. I think the reality is already showing the inaccuracy of this statement. Most of the largest guilds have done exactly the opposite of allying with themselves as a matter of fact.

If it wasn't for so much beef and ego between some guilds I have a feeling the result could have been very, very different and more similar to what the OP had in mind. Yet, the majority of big guilds never got along for competitive, dumb reasons. I've been negotiating for nearly a month straight, the ego some people have is over the top.

This is actually true, but also, the guilds that get along with each other really wanted to have small guilds to take care of. This was really pleasant surprise for me, there is hope in NW community after all.

wildfirede · June 2016

Sage post is 3 months late and inaccurate.

mynaam · June 2016

Even though I do think this alliances will promote Elitism amongst some guilds I d believe it could help some smaller guilds. There are some alliances that do take on smaller guilds and will give them.

As someone in a small guild I must say what I am concerned about is what happens to the new guilds they are at Guild hall level 1 and the chance of an alliance taking a chance on them is 0(and rightly so). Once they have proven them selves and get to say Guild hall Level 5 all alliances will be filled and these small guilds will be forced to either abandon the work done on the guild(discouraging them to continue with the game and continue the bleed) and join a bigger guild or simply group together not getting any real benefits out of the alliance system for a long time. Hence the term Elitism.

When the alliances first appeared I suggested that there is a limit of the guild level (when joining) for each level of the alliance. E.G. Sword can be no bigger than guild hall level 12 and Gauntlet can be no bigger than level 8. This limitation will only be implemented on joining. so theoretically you can have a level 20 gauntlet in the long run. Unfortunately this was ignored and big guilds was allowed to pair up and gang up against the small ones. Please do not think I Blame the guilds. It was wise of them to do so and I do not think they are doing anything wrong. I believe the fault here lies squarely on Cryptic's shoulders.

blinxon · June 2016

mynaam said:
Unfortunately this was ignored and big guilds was allowed to pair up and gang up against the small ones. Please do not think I Blame the guilds.

I will never mention you wanna blame big guilds after i read theese two sentences.

kvet · June 2016

I think bashing large guilds for already having their Alliances sown up is completely unfair.

The vast majority of large guilds haven't banded together to keep smaller guilds out, it's as simple as that. The biggest problem for smaller guilds vis a vis Alliances is that there's simply a LOT of smaller guilds, so the ones that jumped on this early have gotten in and the ones that haven't are now left with options they don't like. The result? Threads like this.

checkmatein3 · June 2016

1. The OP ignores the planning of guilds with advanced stronghold structures (Holy Crusaders, Gutbusters, Essence of Aggression, Black Lotus, Win or Lose, Synergy...and others) as advertising in Guild Recruitment for Beta and Gamma guilds. Of course, as those guilds have more bonuses to give, it is their right to be selective at whatever means each determines for forming alliances. That is why each alliance may have a different flavor/bent/culture.

2. The OP ignores that some large guilds already have multiple 'alt guilds,' whether to have an introduction guild, specialization guilds (I think Greycloaks used to have a PvP only guild), specific resources guild (like a guild where they advanced to get mastercraft), or to have more people to feed both guilds (Holy/Unholy Crusaders). The 150 cap made this kind of arrangement necessary for those who decided to manage these multiguilds. As they already exist in all their forms, there is not one guild that has 13 alts that could do the job of up to 13 separate guilds. The player base in the up to 13 guild would be more beneficial. So, even practically speaking, the OP is incorrect.

3. Alliances has not been released yet, so even the preliminary arrangement of guilds is unknown. Just as you add persons to your guild to see if they fit the culture, so also with alliances, you try and use some forethought to determine whether the culture of two guilds, of whatever size and ability, would fit together. Some alliances are forming because the guild leaders and officers already knew each other in game or from forums and liked playing with each other. Thus, alliance is a more natural outcome of what is already ongoing in the game. Other alliances may expand some historically closed guilds to open up to others that would not exactly fit their culture, but that, through the symbiotic relationship of alliances, expand their gameplay. Each guild can determine its own reasons for creating or joining an alliance.

4. There are not enough large guilds in the game to absorb all the small guilds. Unless you band together, you may not get a spot anyway with a 'large' guild.

5. Large guilds are suspicious of small guilds, because of the factor of the unknown. Why would someone create a small guild with only 10 people and demand to have a great stronghold, when there are other guilds out there which they could join? Who is the person? Are they new to the game? Are they freeloaders? Have they put the time into the game that the large guild has? In light of number 4, larger guilds can be more selective of whom they choose to allow into the spots. And this point will help the alliances understand whether the choices made are the best.

6. Long-term alliance relationships will be founded upon a set understanding of authority within the alliance, and how each guild can choose or not choose to govern itself. Moreover, similarity of culture and skill would also be necessary. A guild with 10-50 people below level 60 may not fit well with a high end guild that wants to run epic content every day. They will not do much together (I am sorry, but its the truth).

7. Above all, we choose to play with people we like and respect. Guilds are the first level. Alliances are another level. In the end, if the guilds in the alliance don't like the leaders or players of another guild, they won't stay, because the cost is more than the benefit. STO seems to see a breakdown of alliances in these veins.

To each alliance its own. Best of luck all! Have fun!

beckylunatic · June 2016

checkmatein3 said:

7. Above all, we choose to play with people we like and respect.

Ultimately, what I see shaking out in the currently publicized Alliance formations is exactly this. And while some of it might be influenced as Lia says by egos (X won't ally with Y no matter how strong they'd be together), it also means that there is a place for smaller guilds, with people who just plain *like* them.

dragoness10 · June 2016

PESSIMIST! I see this every new mod/ game addition somebody has to start a post how everything will suddenly go up poo creak without a paddle and a leak in the canoe.

Yes, you may have some guild that bring in the "spare banks of players guilds" in for storage or access coffer donations, but I don't think the apocalyptic doomsaying will ever apply.

If you want to join a larger guild NOW is the time to start talking with the guild heads for the future alliances.

If you're mostly PvE as a guild consider allying with a PvP guild. If you're small talk to a large one. If your a large guild adopt a smaller one as there are vast advantages to having lowbies around.

Heck, if you want to ally with the guild I'm in then just poke a letter in game to one of the guild leaders, or rank 6's.

solbergx · June 2016

Don't be so negative!!!

Unknown · June 2016

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urabask · June 2016

pan17 said:
i have one very important question !
a guild with gh rank 12 alliances with a guild with gh rank 20 .....
can we share the boons of the guild with gh rank 20 ...?

What would be the point in upgrading your own stronghold if that was true?

demonmonger · June 2016

Mmmm and you all passed the test.
Notice this is the first time in never winter history that so many came back with positive comments (devious grin).

Good show well done.

See you all in game on the 7th

kreatyve · June 2016

pan17 said:
i have one very important question !
a guild with gh rank 12 alliances with a guild with gh rank 20 .....
can we share the boons of the guild with gh rank 20 ...?

As far as I know, as of right now, boons aren't shared. I haven't been on preview to check (I'm sure someone else can answer it more accurately).

I'm extremely pleased that my midlevel guild found a larger guild (Greycloaks) to ally with.

We have some smaller guilds below us. While it's true that Blackcloaks will be in the alliance too, they were formed before even Strongholds came out, so nobody can say that they were formed with the purpose of Alliances.

instynctive · June 2016

We're in the nearly same exact boat at TFB... nearly at GH L10, in with some amazing guilds, both big and small.

And it's awesome.

kvet · June 2016

Plus, Blackcloaks is nearing GH 10, and population wise is bigger than Greycloaks, that that's by design - we have intentionally kept Greys down to make room for friends to pop in for DF. Won't be necessary after next week, so I expect both guilds to max out fairly quickly.

Frankly, I think the Cloaks have fantastically lucky to find the allies we have. I know I talked to a lot of you, including many on this thread, and am or would have been honored to ally with you too - so far, I think things have worked out for the best on all fronts. So many awesome guilds out there. They need to create the Empire system next, where Alliances can form up into even larger alliances

demonmonger · June 2016

He he then it's gonna be the Republic vs the darkside

Unknown · June 2016

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oliboyph · June 2016

pan17 said:

urabask said:

pan17 said:
i have one very important question !
a guild with gh rank 12 alliances with a guild with gh rank 20 .....
can we share the boons of the guild with gh rank 20 ...?
What would be the point in upgrading your own stronghold if that was true?
The point would be to have more boon structures available...that's what iam saying ....if yur gh rank 12 has only power and defence boons , the gh rank 20 can have more structures available like.. HP boons , pvp boons(aka drains),etc.. and choose any player of the two alliance guilds the boon they prefer to use...
''The default unlocked boons of each guild in the alliance will remain the same..''

No, that's not what that means. It simply means that nothing will change for the boons of each guild in the alliance. So you only get the boons of your guild and being in an alliance does will not change that. Well, at least for now. However I figure that would not be a direction, or at least not at 100% without any form of penalty.

asterotg · June 2016

While the result 'as is' is good for the community, I dont think, that it would be the same, if the alliance boons would be anything but HAMSTER for big guilds. Cost reductions for full SH 20 structures 10 guilds or SH 18-19 guilds, really?

Its not, that I wont benefit from these boons, bc we have to level SH to 20 and our structures to 9/10, BUT in the long run it is not significant at all.

Now with a model, where you get +1.000 stats for every lvl 20 SH in your alliance. Guess, where the SH 20 guilds would be?

loboguild · June 2016

The system has to proof over time.

At the current design though, there are indeed risks that it makes more sense for large alliances to group up and maybe open two or three "dummy" alliances to be able to create guild marks. Helping each other in the current system is a voluntary decision, not one that makes most sense for all parties involved.

mynaam · June 2016

kvet said:
I think bashing large guilds for already having their Alliances sown up is completely unfair.

The vast majority of large guilds haven't banded together to keep smaller guilds out, it's as simple as that. The biggest problem for smaller guilds vis a vis Alliances is that there's simply a LOT of smaller guilds, so the ones that jumped on this early have gotten in and the ones that haven't are now left with options they don't like. The result? Threads like this.

I did not mean to bash big guilds if it came across like that i apologise. I am not English so something might have gone wrong in the translation. Let me try again:

If Big guilds group together it would be a smart move and thus the guilds should not be blamed. The mechanism should prevent all big guild alliance.

I would have liked to see a preemptive measures from the developers to try and have Guilds with guildhall of level 17+ to be forced to be the Helm. This would have lead to more smaller guilds being in an alliance. I am in more than 1 guild. All my chars are in a guilds with an alliance. I just feel that more could have been done to help the small guilds that are not. It reminds me of a song

And while we're having so much fun let's not forget the lonely ones

Again I am sorry if it sounded that I blame the big guilds. They are just doing what they think is good for their guild. I know guilds like the Greycloaks have gone out of their way to help the smaller guilds as is evident by the NWO blog.

bluebubbl3s · June 2016

well fasten seatbelts everyone... cause its here in a couple of days and all of the complaining in the world wont stop it.

If the "small" guilds would actually read some of the alliance posts, there are "big" guilds who are wanting to help out in that area, so pull your finger out and find a place for yourself.

This is what will happen with guild alliances

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