As others have alluded to, the "PVP issue" is much bigger than just adding a new type or map. IMO this type of thing (adding a map/type) would have been ALL thats required back in modules 1-3 and I would almost bet the population would be DOUBLE the size it is today. I know others would agree with this.
First, if you want to put resources into PVP, I think the Solo Q versus Premaede Q is a great investment FIRST. As others have also shared, things like Boons should be taken into account when calculating a players "item level" and then your "matchmaking system" needs to be based on this "item level" INSTEAD of "ELO".
What about swapping gear? Easy. Create a "high water mark" tracker, that always uses a players "greatest item level achieved" and now gear swapping wont matter.
That alone would be MASSIVE QoL increase for PVP. NO more premades stomping pugs and during solo Q, you will play with other people who have similar gear - with lessens the complaints of "P2W" you see around the interwebz.
To your immediate question: I think Tyrion(@tolkienbuff) had some great ideas. "A form of SH PVP not centered around lanes but actually centered around getting into the enemies' stronghold and defeating their Lord (like a T2 Epic boss) before they can do that to your SH Lord. It would be like contested raids." This (to me) sounds like a BLAST!
I know Warhammer had something like this - you cap "battle objectives" which then grants you the ability to attack the players keep - once inside you kill a "Lord" to win. Honestly you can even revise the current SH pvp map to do this! Rather than WIN once you get the gate down, it opens up and inside is some type of "boss" to kill, while enemy players spawn (outside the keep) and try to defend while ALSO still trying to attack your keep. This, to me, sound MUCH MUCH more fun that current SH pvp - which is just a "resource run" without very much "PVP" involved.
I also would be partial to a "murder-ball/oddball" type game where there is a ball that spawns in the middle of the pvp maps, you click/cast to pick it up. Once you have it you accumulate points for your team. When you die, it either drop on that spot - or could be a "spawn at mid" mechanic, or heck, it could even do "far spawn" where it spawns on the enemy's home node (thinking of using the current Domination maps for this). My ONLY suggestion here would be the murder ball itself would need to place FURTHER heal depression on the carrier as some classes/teams can essentially make that person immortal if need be, making it a very 1 sided fight for whoever gets the ball first. Warhammer also has this game type and what they did was a progressive "DoT" on the ball holder that got larger the longer he holds it, until it literally one shots him - making 1 carrier never able to hold the ball for the entire game.
The FINAL PVP version I would love to see would be a SINGLE NODE domination, where you just have 1 large node in the middle of a map. Maybe que-able in a 3v3 or 5v5 version. But this could be loads of fun as well and put the emphasis on ONE node rather than the cheesy 1v1 me bro at home node, type of current domination.
The last SUGGESTION I would add: Just give us another domination map for heaven's sake! The community has been CRYING for this since module ZERO! Its incredibly easy to release a new map, I think one was even done for the Russian server at one point in a stream.... Anyways a VERY easy way to get people involved? HOLD A FOUNDRY CONTEST! I have already seen and played first hand some foundry "pvp maps" that people made for PVP, they are AWESOME.
How to implement? Easy. Hold a Foundry Event where players submit their pvp maps. You guys give a quick glance over and pick YOUR top 10 maps. Create a 2-4 week event where players VOTE for completed pvp maps by playing them in a rewardless pvp que system, they vote, you take the TOP TWO and put them into the regular domination rotation. You can rinse/repeat this process as MANY times as you like and it takes little to no man hours on YOUR end. I dont know why you dont tap into the greatest development resource you have available! Look at Halo 5 and what they do with their "Foundry" and how popular it is....
If you actually take a LITTLE time and follow through with ANY of the suggestions in this thread, I will be impressed. I have thousands of posts here, played this game for YEARS asking for just ONE of these things and its fallen on deaf ears.... So Kudos to you for looking into this!
If you make a pvp mode where there are only certain "attainable" sets, ZERO boons, zero drains, zero stronghold boons, zero insignias (what were you thinking), and a set number of wep/armor enchants (ones that are cleared to be bug/cheap proof - reference ur shadow armor enchants, again.. what were you thinking) and zero rings that do anything other than boost power/crit etc and not invisibility (really??!) or knockback (really?!) - continue
If you make a mode such as this and call it - "The best of the best" or "Bare Bones PVP" - you will bring back more players than you could have ever DREAMED of.
It hasn't been since mods 0-3 ish that you could get a guy to 60 and BUY or heaven forbid achieve from a dungeon - the gear and not really need the boons all that much, and have an alt to pvp on. I have long since retired from this game as the powercreep became silly, my class became uber cheese mode, and I realized that the people designing this game have zero clue how to actually play it... but for all that is good I would love to make a suggestion that would make me and many others come back in the blink of an eye.
Make whatever mode you want, team oriented (solo Q'ers mostly roleplay in the moonstone anyway), with gear that isn't insane to get, does not require strongholds, and can be purchased via pvp, weapons,necks,belts for this mode that are within 5% of total stat/damage as the artifact gear (this is against your business model I know but so are high #'s of loyal players), and only 1 primary artifact. Items that are close to the best in slot artifact gear aka - chinese farmers paychecks - will only be allowed in this game type, and will be BOUND TO ACCOUNT
you will in a sense have "fixed" all the screw ups of former and current devs, and to the best of your ability nullified the power creep to bring back skill into your game. If you do anything short of this or not this at all, you will continue to see people give less and less fu**'s about it and move on to newer/better/more player focused games that encourage competition and not paychecks as they understand that if they accomplish the first part, the last part isn't even a question.
If you make a pvp mode where there are only certain "attainable" sets, ZERO boons, zero drains, zero stronghold boons, zero insignias (what were you thinking), and a set number of wep/armor enchants (ones that are cleared to be bug/cheap proof - reference ur shadow armor enchants, again.. what were you thinking) and zero rings that do anything other than boost power/crit etc and not invisibility (really??!) or knockback (really?!) - continue
If you make a mode such as this and call it - "The best of the best" or "Bare Bones PVP" - you will bring back more players than you could have ever DREAMED of.
It hasn't been since mods 0-3 ish that you could get a guy to 60 and BUY or heaven forbid achieve from a dungeon - the gear and not really need the boons all that much, and have an alt to pvp on. I have long since retired from this game as the powercreep became silly, my class became uber cheese mode, and I realized that the people designing this game have zero clue how to actually play it... but for all that is good I would love to make a suggestion that would make me and many others come back in the blink of an eye.
Make whatever mode you want, team oriented (solo Q'ers mostly roleplay in the moonstone anyway), with gear that isn't insane to get, does not require strongholds, and can be purchased via pvp, weapons,necks,belts for this mode that are within 5% of total stat/damage as the artifact gear (this is against your business model I know but so are high #'s of loyal players), and only 1 primary artifact. Items that are close to the best in slot artifact gear aka - chinese farmers paychecks - will only be allowed in this game type, and will be BOUND TO ACCOUNT
you will in a sense have "fixed" all the screw ups of former and current devs, and to the best of your ability nullified the power creep to bring back skill into your game. If you do anything short of this or not this at all, you will continue to see people give less and less fu**'s about it and move on to newer/better/more player focused games that encourage competition and not paychecks as they understand that if they accomplish the first part, the last part isn't even a question.
Guardian Fighter -Dom
More truer words have never been spoken. As I said in my initial post if you (Cryptic) would have come to the players in mods 0-3 and said "here is a new MAP" - let alone a new pvp type.... it would have been CRAZY how well the players would have responded... You guys dont even know. Ive always felt this game is like a vacant GOLD MINE where there is SO much money to be had by the developers... if they just had the slightest clue. But instead of focusing on how to make the game more FUN, it was "how can we make more money" and the result is new INSANE BIS gear each and every module, that not only makes last modules stuff look pathetic in comparison, you actually CANT be competitive without the new stuff. Worse part is, you cant even FARM for the new stuff but chances are have to pay to get it.
However, to stay positive.... Kudos again for actually asking this question "what do you (the players) want". I only hope there is a CHANCE this is sincere and actually something Crytpic will allow you guys to produce that ISNT a money grab for us to buy RP or some new insane OP item that 1 shots enemies once every minute but requires a SH lvl 100 to get, or $599 via credit card.
If your FOCUS is on making the game FUN and not a money grab... You will succeed. If next module brings some NEW crazy item that gives players +50k stats that is a MUST have for PVP. You will fail. - EVEN IF you release the best damn PVP map/gametype this world has EVER SEEN. It wont matter.
I like you people talking Foundry. I thought we were a forgotten part of the community. We've suggested allowing PvP maps to be created in the past, it was met with little interest from the powers that be. We'll see how this latest round goes. It'll be interesting to see...
"I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..." Featured Foundry Quest:Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
edited May 2016
I would like a mode that causes you to have to take off all your enchants, artifacts, mount stats, and any other buffs so that it's more skill based than wallet based. Maybe capture the flag type. Basically what @freshour is also suggesting.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
Good stuff here. Geared or not, everyone seems to agree that pvp gear and item level needs to be more equalized.
Now, for a hilarious bad idea.
Companion arena fights. Summon your X# companions in your deck, one at a time, to go vs someone else's . Watch and gamble. Companions are npc, skill is only in building the best Pokemon collection and picking the right ones to play in a given scenario.
Good stuff here. Geared or not, everyone seems to agree that pvp gear and item level needs to be more equalized.
Now, for a hilarious bad idea.
Companion arena fights. Summon your X# companions in your deck, one at a time, to go vs someone else's . Watch and gamble. Companions are npc, skill is only in building the best Pokemon collection and picking the right ones to play in a given scenario.
Gotta Catch em All! Neverwinter-mon!
Not the worst idea ever (cough insignias cough) in fact this actually would be entertaining at the very least! Until Cryptic released a new Zen item "Uber Companion" for 5000 zen. Uber Companion has a special skill at max rank (starts at rank 1 btw) where he 1 shots all other companions. Pay up everyone!
i think we should still solve some problems that can be easily fixed.
first of all keep rolling those class balance changes you as devs talked about.
remove tenacity as additional stat on gear and give everyone the same flat amount regardless the gear they are wearing.
then: totally split parties from people solo-queing. Solo Q is a must. And matchmaking should be based on itemlevel which should take in count boons, mount, insigna stats.
after these changes the pvp population will become at least 3x larger than now.
for new content:
1) a couple of domination maps more (maybe foundry based why not?)
2) a quidditch like game riding dragons. Monetizing aspect? Sell skins for those dragons. If gear must be involved with those dragons should be totally reclamable with glory.. lets say reins for example.
3) a single node 2vs2 where people can bet small amount of ads and the winners take all (top 10k ads to say some numbers)
i think we should still solve some problems that can be easily fixed.
first of all keep rolling those class balance changes you as devs talked about.
remove tenacity as additional stat on gear and give everyone the same flat amount regardless the gear they are wearing.
then: totally split parties from people solo-queing. Solo Q is a must. And matchmaking should be based on itemlevel which should take in count boons, mount, insigna stats.
after these changes the pvp population will become at least 3x larger than now.
for new content:
1) a couple of domination maps more (maybe foundry based why not?)
2) a quidditch like game riding dragons. Monetizing aspect? Sell skins for those dragons. If gear must be involved with those dragons should be totally reclamable with glory.. lets say reins for example.
3) a single node 2vs2 where people can bet small amount of ads and the winners take all (top 10k ads to say some numbers)
Agree with MOST of this.
Class Balance - Check. Remove Tenacity on gear - double check. Players awarded a flat tenacity bonus that REPLACES the gear stat - TRIPLE check! Split Ques - YUUUUUUUP!!!!! Domi Maps - Yup! A "mount" game? - Id pass on this and rather have resources spent elsewhere
Single node 2v2 - Dislike. Too much of this game is team balance. I think 3v3 is smallest you can go without issues. Some classes just inherently outperform in 1v1 or 2v2 situations. This is PART of the reason the game went to HAMSTER - everyone wanted to be everything and forget rolls. This would further promote that.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
Those balance changes to existing pvp sound good, @rayrdan1 .
As for your new mode ideas, count me as on board for a mount style game (like rocket league, never winter edition). Not crazy about a 2v2 mode, though
What new PvP mode would you like to see in Neverwinter? Capture the flag? Free-for-all king of the hill? Dragon-riding baseball? Put your best ideas down here and +1 the ideas you like most.
I think it would be more wise if for this time class power balancing in pvp matters would be done. Rather then introducing new pvp area and keeping pvp dissbalanced.
But as for suggestions.. well lets see, we have Stronghold pvp/pve or how I should call it.. Why don't add some real simple castle/stronghold/fort siege? No tons of pve content, just pure pvp? U siege fort, break walls, slaughtering enemy team/guild and capturing fort/castle by finding crystal and engraving guilds name inside him. Once its done, all from other guilds are expelled from castle outside, and they start siege, while your guild defending.. Battle last 1 hour, so its high chance that castle will be capture and lost many times in 1 round.. :P
p.s this is more like suggestions to rebuilding stronghold fight, and introducing more pvp inside >guild pvp< .
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
I would like a queuesystem having 5 vs 5 and 1 vs 1, to give premades a battleground, having the option to build their own fights. These guys need a rewardsystem, wich is "rewarding" for 1. 2. 3. like mounts etc., special items The "normal" PVP should be separated as soloqueue 5vs5 etc and should get an item cap or equalized mode for getting more player into PVP and improving the matchmaking, i guess brackets will never work in this game and imo gearfanatism and powercreep has to end or just disabled in PVP, to get this game and the population back in line. SH-PVP should get a rework --> disable companionboni. No drains any more just delete them, bad idea, very bad--get that guy another job.
What new PvP mode would you like to see in Neverwinter? Capture the flag? Free-for-all king of the hill? Dragon-riding baseball? Put your best ideas down here and +1 the ideas you like most.
@bbascomdev Here is the Step by Step guide on how to fix PVP.
1) remove campaign boons from PVP, with the exception of SH boons and PVP boons. 2) remove secondary artifacts from PVP (only primary stats + Use). 3) Remove mount bonuses of ALL kinds from PVP (only work in PVE now). 4) Remove ALL potion buffs from PVP - they will show and be active for PVE only just like companions. 5) Remove tenacity as a STAT on gear and just give everyone @ lvl 70 a base of those values tenacity provides - enabling anyone to use ANY gear for pvp. 6) Create the solo Q and "premade" Q options as the two methods to Quing for PVP.
- You have effectively cut the gear gap a TON, still provided tons of incentive for PVPers to PVE because of SH boons which REQUIRE PVE to do, but this makes PVP as pure as possible while being the most fair. The two que systems (solo and premade) is a MUST as well. The gross power creep released each module can remain for PVE lovers... but it keeps pvp pure and also helps hedge against future imbalance issues with boons/potions/companions/mounts etc.
THEN: Announce a "Submit your best Foundry PVP map" contest. Keep this submission open for 4-6 weeks. The top 10 are chosen, thrown into a reward-less PVP "test" Que (could even just be on PTR if you really want). Hold THIS for 4 weeks or so where AFTER the match ends, a player votes on a few factors like how fun the map was, is it balanced, etc etc. The top Map at the end gets selected and thrown into the PVP domination Que. The MAKER gets a special title or mount or something.
You guys just balanced PVP, lessened gear gap, fixed the premade vs pug issue, made matchmaking easier, AND released new content ALL without REALLY having to do anything! The foundry contest brings foundry into the fold and those guys are happy. The "pure" pvp makes pvpers happy and PVE is not affected AT ALL making them happy. You can repeat this process after a few months and it keeps everyone happy and you guys can focus on PVE stuff making them happy.
its a win - win -win as the pvpers get more content faster and PVEers will get the DEvs developing more content faster for them too. PVPers dont need fancy stuff, just simple old pvp will do, with a new map or something to hold our interest every few months.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Let me speak to you from my heart. This question of yours is mildly spoken badly timed, but none the less a good opportunity for us to communicate with a Dev, who might carry our words. You see PVP is nearly dead, the remaining players, who play it on a regular basis wouldn't be enough to fill my living room and i don't live in Windsor Castle.
Before you ask us players what new PVP mode we would like to see, i guess you guys, the Devs should first ask yourselves how to get players back to it, cause if nothing will be done the new mode will be equally underpopulated like the ones currently are.
The problem of PVP being deserted lies deeper, sure we would have loved your question few Mods back, but at this time it is not even a secondary objective, there are bigger fires burning.
First you guys need to either equalize pvp, like @defiantone99 wrote above and/or introduce a new bracket system, which includes Stronghold boons and the legendary mounts too. Just one example 8K arm pen from SH boon+4k arm pen from mount is overkill for most players or better said ex players and that's just 1 stat. 99% of the former players can't keep up with the power creep and it is really insane now.
Secondly i agree with @taitinhakkaaja too, separate premades from solo, another huge problem would be solve by this, end PUG slaughter finally.
Thirdly delete drains from PVP. We are all human, we all make mistakes, but that thing is beyond bad, it degrades any remaining skill in the arena.
Not much, but without these few things to start the new mode is bound to be another epic failure, in the game. Outside, well i must agree it's still a good marketing asset to have, but would it matter...
Thank you!
i agree. now is the time americans play right? watch this http://postimg.org/image/xa2epc96p/ 0 PLAYERS in rivenscar ruins. and to other map are 10( 2 pt ).
A form of SH PVP not centered around lanes but actually centered around getting into the enemies' stronghold and defeating their Lord (like a T2 Epic boss) before they can do that to your SH Lord. It would be like contested raids.
So a map would basically be the two strongholds and a Lane or two leading from one SH to the other ( or you could simply reuse the currently existing SH siege map). You could place SH guard mobs on the map as well. The point would be to make it past the other team to their "Lord" and take him down first. You can leave players behind to try and protect your Lord or try a full frontal assault to kill their Lord faster. Many offensive and defensive options.
I think it could be a fun mix of PVE and PVP while incorporating the current module.
I was thinking of something just like this.. Attack/Defend ..
In [an online mech game], there is an objective (omega) to defend.
Its surrounded by turrets preventing a light mech rush, there are two-three gates(alpha beta gamma), each with turrets, and a gate generator behind them.. the gategen must be destroyed by snipers in order for the gate to open. you only get 4 lives. [4 push attempts, usually]
so in a 10v10 match, each player would only get to respawn an additional 3 times. this means each spawn is precious, so a coordinated attempt must be made at pushing the objective. teamwork is key. (straggling in to 'reinforce' the survivors is usually a bad idea. waiting to regroup as 10 again is the best way to do it. due to the defenders respawning close to their defend objective, and the attackers spawning far)
i dunno. pm me if you want to know the name of this fun game so you can do some 'research' ;D
it could easily be adapted to the SH siege map.
also, foundry foundry foundry deja vu
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
A form of SH PVP not centered around lanes but actually centered around getting into the enemies' stronghold and defeating their Lord (like a T2 Epic boss) before they can do that to your SH Lord. It would be like contested raids.
So a map would basically be the two strongholds and a Lane or two leading from one SH to the other ( or you could simply reuse the currently existing SH siege map). You could place SH guard mobs on the map as well. The point would be to make it past the other team to their "Lord" and take him down first. You can leave players behind to try and protect your Lord or try a full frontal assault to kill their Lord faster. Many offensive and defensive options.
I think it could be a fun mix of PVE and PVP while incorporating the current module.
This right here would bring me back to doing PvP again, would have to fix companions and such though before something like this is implemented.
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
Before adding a new pvp can you please listen at what is needed first.
-CAN YOU REMOVE THOSE STEALTH RINGS AND DRAINS FROM PVP!! ... how long we have to ask for it, is like ... jesus .. -Class Balance (like GF, 1 shot Tr's, etc) -Many others, if you read the forum you will see what is wrong
EDIT: I forgot something REALLY IMPORTANT, the queue system: -solo players can't be playing against premade teams!! -2k players can't be playing against 4k players
Something i really can't believe is: Why you always trying to bring new content without fixing the existing, i mean is so illogical, if you make something new with a broken base, the result is obvious, the new content will be broken too.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
1. deal with power creep (mainly stronghold boons - they are too strong for pvp - maybe at least halved them for pvp) 2. deal with items that negate and steal basic class mechanics (stealth rings) and drains- they are pure stupid 3. i am not convinced that cryptic can fix and balance pvp so easiest solution is please bring equalized version of pvp with polished power creep. Make regular pvp equalized and if you need to kep your business model still work, run frequent NCLs with all power creep for cosmetic reward (new howler like). Because of power creep, all non big guilds players no longer bother even queing for pvp, because they have no chance against premades. So separate these guilds and pugs at regular pvp, a lot more players will play then (either strictly separate premade and solo or make that equalized version or something)
+1000.
PVP is totally impossible for new players. There is no way to consistently get a balanced match, no game mode in which they can learn the ropes. Too much power differential to make it worth even trying to fight for a few wins in a losing match.
You need to incentivize players that avoided PVP to come back and play (so that there is enough of a player base to allow for matchmaking), ensure that you will never put an EofA or Chocolat premade against a team that can't even dent them, and create means for average players to learn how to effectively PVP.
One thought: Allow the queue system to form premade vs. premade parties. My guild would love to put together two balanced teams and fight each other, remix the teams and try again. The current system of announcing "pop" in chat just doesn't cut it.
Another thought: Rather than, or in addition to, the queue system "doing it's best" to make a match how about listing all available teams (or if there are too many available teams, the ten closest matches). Let the party leader challenge one of the teams in the queue, and allow the challenged team to accept or decline. In the queue system, show the opposing team's classes and item levels (and LOCK their gear once they queue, so they can't put on the good stuff when the match starts).
No to removing Icewind Dale PVP campaign. Just make it easier to finish tasks and make OWPVP there like a real event and allow us to change instances, there is not other way to get a 3rd PVP artifact.
+1 keep Icewind Dale, but build in better reasons for people to actually participate in the oPVP mode. Make it predictable when it will happen. Nobody I play with can figure out when / under what conditions the competition will start. Remodel the oPVP match so that determined defenders can temporarily slow down progress until reinforcements arrive (for example, by loading ammo into siege cannons that throw people off of the points or heavily damage those that don't get off, but with a limited amount of ammo per battle).
just to throw a stone in a lake... why are all of you asking for a balanced gear in pvp.... that's not rly in D&D spirit. I advance my char with gear and stuff, 'couse that's a fiction, and it's not supposed that i'm really able to make a sommersoult if my char does it. Same way should be PvP.. it's not me, it's my char that is stronger, becouse i chose to develop it that way instead of another. you can proviide the mind, the quick reflex, but i think it's correct in a D&D based game to count on gear and boons, and also in a good dice roll. Just bracket PvP, so i won't get a 1500 IL player in my instance.
Why don't you snaky into co and sto team office copy their code? They already have couple different pvp mode. >:) New mode suggestion :
1. 5 vs 5 football match like someone already did a video on YouTube, but make it formal into game. #All player are immune to damge. #At-will hit will move the ball little bit, encounter will be long pass, daily will be shooting hit. #The match will end via the team who got 3 goal first.
2. Even number players Arena . #A map has couple sub area/sessions, players are allocate to those sub area to do the 1 vs 1 battle. #the winner will be transfer to the other area to fight other winner until the last one stand still. #reward base on how far of the play go. #Each area are full of traps (buff/debuff/deadly damge) and will unique benefit for tank/striker/control/support or melee/range. Player should think about how to use the traps to take the advantages to win.
3. 5 vs 5 Dragon fight: # a turn base game. # there are two dragon fighting each other, blue dragon for blue team, the red dragon for red team. # there are three nodes on the map, red node for attack, blue for defense, green for heal # player have to take node for their's dragon's action on next turn. # player can't damaged/heal the dragon, to do damge/heal, they have to take the red/green node. # each turn has 1-2 mins to allow player to take nodes, each team only allow to take 1 node. If two team at the same node or failed to take any node, their dragon won't take any actions on next turn. # match will be end if one of dragon been defeated or turns up to 10 round. If match end by time out, the dragon which has more health pointer, their team win.
4 flight and fight: # there are no team, player are join and random fight. # a map is full of the island on the air just like the quest tome of air. Player can jump high on the jump points or the map will randomly blow player up into air
5 5v5 Protection: # 20 npc on the map. # each team have catch those npc and transport them back to their camp. # match will be end when all npc at camp. The team that has more npc in their camp will be win.
* 1 campfire for each team and empty field between them * no win conditions: just endless round, it ends when all players leave it (without leave penalty) * ability to queue to private matches of course
pros:
* 2v2 good for tournaments: 2 playes & 2 judges * players can easely test their builds (it's easy to find 4 persons for it, much easily than 10 for domination match and much better than use Icewind Dale PVP zone) in 1vs1, 2vs2 and 1vs2 modes * simple death match mode: a lot of players like to fight than ride from one map corner to another * devs can collect statistic for class balancing much easier
Comments
Welcome to the forums!
As others have alluded to, the "PVP issue" is much bigger than just adding a new type or map. IMO this type of thing (adding a map/type) would have been ALL thats required back in modules 1-3 and I would almost bet the population would be DOUBLE the size it is today. I know others would agree with this.
First, if you want to put resources into PVP, I think the Solo Q versus Premaede Q is a great investment FIRST. As others have also shared, things like Boons should be taken into account when calculating a players "item level" and then your "matchmaking system" needs to be based on this "item level" INSTEAD of "ELO".
What about swapping gear? Easy. Create a "high water mark" tracker, that always uses a players "greatest item level achieved" and now gear swapping wont matter.
That alone would be MASSIVE QoL increase for PVP. NO more premades stomping pugs and during solo Q, you will play with other people who have similar gear - with lessens the complaints of "P2W" you see around the interwebz.
To your immediate question:
I think Tyrion(@tolkienbuff) had some great ideas.
"A form of SH PVP not centered around lanes but actually centered around getting into the enemies' stronghold and defeating their Lord (like a T2 Epic boss) before they can do that to your SH Lord. It would be like contested raids." This (to me) sounds like a BLAST!
I know Warhammer had something like this - you cap "battle objectives" which then grants you the ability to attack the players keep - once inside you kill a "Lord" to win. Honestly you can even revise the current SH pvp map to do this! Rather than WIN once you get the gate down, it opens up and inside is some type of "boss" to kill, while enemy players spawn (outside the keep) and try to defend while ALSO still trying to attack your keep. This, to me, sound MUCH MUCH more fun that current SH pvp - which is just a "resource run" without very much "PVP" involved.
I also would be partial to a "murder-ball/oddball" type game where there is a ball that spawns in the middle of the pvp maps, you click/cast to pick it up. Once you have it you accumulate points for your team. When you die, it either drop on that spot - or could be a "spawn at mid" mechanic, or heck, it could even do "far spawn" where it spawns on the enemy's home node (thinking of using the current Domination maps for this). My ONLY suggestion here would be the murder ball itself would need to place FURTHER heal depression on the carrier as some classes/teams can essentially make that person immortal if need be, making it a very 1 sided fight for whoever gets the ball first. Warhammer also has this game type and what they did was a progressive "DoT" on the ball holder that got larger the longer he holds it, until it literally one shots him - making 1 carrier never able to hold the ball for the entire game.
The FINAL PVP version I would love to see would be a SINGLE NODE domination, where you just have 1 large node in the middle of a map. Maybe que-able in a 3v3 or 5v5 version. But this could be loads of fun as well and put the emphasis on ONE node rather than the cheesy 1v1 me bro at home node, type of current domination.
The last SUGGESTION I would add: Just give us another domination map for heaven's sake! The community has been CRYING for this since module ZERO! Its incredibly easy to release a new map, I think one was even done for the Russian server at one point in a stream.... Anyways a VERY easy way to get people involved? HOLD A FOUNDRY CONTEST! I have already seen and played first hand some foundry "pvp maps" that people made for PVP, they are AWESOME.
How to implement? Easy. Hold a Foundry Event where players submit their pvp maps. You guys give a quick glance over and pick YOUR top 10 maps. Create a 2-4 week event where players VOTE for completed pvp maps by playing them in a rewardless pvp que system, they vote, you take the TOP TWO and put them into the regular domination rotation. You can rinse/repeat this process as MANY times as you like and it takes little to no man hours on YOUR end. I dont know why you dont tap into the greatest development resource you have available! Look at Halo 5 and what they do with their "Foundry" and how popular it is....
If you actually take a LITTLE time and follow through with ANY of the suggestions in this thread, I will be impressed. I have thousands of posts here, played this game for YEARS asking for just ONE of these things and its fallen on deaf ears.... So Kudos to you for looking into this!
If you make a mode such as this and call it - "The best of the best" or "Bare Bones PVP" - you will bring back more players than you could have ever DREAMED of.
It hasn't been since mods 0-3 ish that you could get a guy to 60 and BUY or heaven forbid achieve from a dungeon - the gear and not really need the boons all that much, and have an alt to pvp on. I have long since retired from this game as the powercreep became silly, my class became uber cheese mode, and I realized that the people designing this game have zero clue how to actually play it... but for all that is good I would love to make a suggestion that would make me and many others come back in the blink of an eye.
Make whatever mode you want, team oriented (solo Q'ers mostly roleplay in the moonstone anyway), with gear that isn't insane to get, does not require strongholds, and can be purchased via pvp, weapons,necks,belts for this mode that are within 5% of total stat/damage as the artifact gear (this is against your business model I know but so are high #'s of loyal players), and only 1 primary artifact. Items that are close to the best in slot artifact gear aka - chinese farmers paychecks - will only be allowed in this game type, and will be BOUND TO ACCOUNT
you will in a sense have "fixed" all the screw ups of former and current devs, and to the best of your ability nullified the power creep to bring back skill into your game. If you do anything short of this or not this at all, you will continue to see people give less and less fu**'s about it and move on to newer/better/more player focused games that encourage competition and not paychecks as they understand that if they accomplish the first part, the last part isn't even a question.
Guardian Fighter
-Dom
However, to stay positive.... Kudos again for actually asking this question "what do you (the players) want". I only hope there is a CHANCE this is sincere and actually something Crytpic will allow you guys to produce that ISNT a money grab for us to buy RP or some new insane OP item that 1 shots enemies once every minute but requires a SH lvl 100 to get, or $599 via credit card.
If your FOCUS is on making the game FUN and not a money grab... You will succeed. If next module brings some NEW crazy item that gives players +50k stats that is a MUST have for PVP. You will fail. - EVEN IF you release the best damn PVP map/gametype this world has EVER SEEN. It wont matter.
Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Now, for a hilarious bad idea.
Companion arena fights. Summon your X# companions in your deck, one at a time, to go vs someone else's . Watch and gamble. Companions are npc, skill is only in building the best Pokemon collection and picking the right ones to play in a given scenario.
Iyon the Dark
Not the worst idea ever (cough insignias cough) in fact this actually would be entertaining at the very least! Until Cryptic released a new Zen item "Uber Companion" for 5000 zen. Uber Companion has a special skill at max rank (starts at rank 1 btw) where he 1 shots all other companions. Pay up everyone!
first of all keep rolling those class balance changes you as devs talked about.
remove tenacity as additional stat on gear and give everyone the same flat amount regardless the gear they are wearing.
then: totally split parties from people solo-queing. Solo Q is a must. And matchmaking should be based on itemlevel which should take in count boons, mount, insigna stats.
after these changes the pvp population will become at least 3x larger than now.
for new content:
1) a couple of domination maps more (maybe foundry based why not?)
2) a quidditch like game riding dragons. Monetizing aspect? Sell skins for those dragons. If gear must be involved with those dragons should be totally reclamable with glory.. lets say reins for example.
3) a single node 2vs2 where people can bet small amount of ads and the winners take all (top 10k ads to say some numbers)
Class Balance - Check.
Remove Tenacity on gear - double check.
Players awarded a flat tenacity bonus that REPLACES the gear stat - TRIPLE check!
Split Ques - YUUUUUUUP!!!!!
Domi Maps - Yup!
A "mount" game? - Id pass on this and rather have resources spent elsewhere
Single node 2v2 - Dislike. Too much of this game is team balance. I think 3v3 is smallest you can go without issues. Some classes just inherently outperform in 1v1 or 2v2 situations. This is PART of the reason the game went to HAMSTER - everyone wanted to be everything and forget rolls. This would further promote that.
As for your new mode ideas, count me as on board for a mount style game (like rocket league, never winter edition). Not crazy about a 2v2 mode, though
Iyon the Dark
But as for suggestions.. well lets see, we have Stronghold pvp/pve or how I should call it..
Why don't add some real simple castle/stronghold/fort siege? No tons of pve content, just pure pvp?
U siege fort, break walls, slaughtering enemy team/guild and capturing fort/castle by finding crystal and engraving guilds name inside him.
Once its done, all from other guilds are expelled from castle outside, and they start siege, while your guild defending..
Battle last 1 hour, so its high chance that castle will be capture and lost many times in 1 round.. :P
p.s this is more like suggestions to rebuilding stronghold fight, and introducing more pvp inside >guild pvp< .
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
The "normal" PVP should be separated as soloqueue 5vs5 etc and should get an item cap or equalized mode for getting more player into PVP and improving the matchmaking, i guess brackets will never work in this game and imo gearfanatism and powercreep has to end or just disabled in PVP, to get this game and the population back in line.
SH-PVP should get a rework --> disable companionboni.
No drains any more just delete them, bad idea, very bad--get that guy another job.
1) remove campaign boons from PVP, with the exception of SH boons and PVP boons.
2) remove secondary artifacts from PVP (only primary stats + Use).
3) Remove mount bonuses of ALL kinds from PVP (only work in PVE now).
4) Remove ALL potion buffs from PVP - they will show and be active for PVE only just like companions.
5) Remove tenacity as a STAT on gear and just give everyone @ lvl 70 a base of those values tenacity provides - enabling anyone to use ANY gear for pvp.
6) Create the solo Q and "premade" Q options as the two methods to Quing for PVP.
- You have effectively cut the gear gap a TON, still provided tons of incentive for PVPers to PVE because of SH boons which REQUIRE PVE to do, but this makes PVP as pure as possible while being the most fair. The two que systems (solo and premade) is a MUST as well. The gross power creep released each module can remain for PVE lovers... but it keeps pvp pure and also helps hedge against future imbalance issues with boons/potions/companions/mounts etc.
THEN:
Announce a "Submit your best Foundry PVP map" contest. Keep this submission open for 4-6 weeks. The top 10 are chosen, thrown into a reward-less PVP "test" Que (could even just be on PTR if you really want). Hold THIS for 4 weeks or so where AFTER the match ends, a player votes on a few factors like how fun the map was, is it balanced, etc etc. The top Map at the end gets selected and thrown into the PVP domination Que. The MAKER gets a special title or mount or something.
You guys just balanced PVP, lessened gear gap, fixed the premade vs pug issue, made matchmaking easier, AND released new content ALL without REALLY having to do anything! The foundry contest brings foundry into the fold and those guys are happy. The "pure" pvp makes pvpers happy and PVE is not affected AT ALL making them happy. You can repeat this process after a few months and it keeps everyone happy and you guys can focus on PVE stuff making them happy.
its a win - win -win as the pvpers get more content faster and PVEers will get the DEvs developing more content faster for them too. PVPers dont need fancy stuff, just simple old pvp will do, with a new map or something to hold our interest every few months.
In [an online mech game], there is an objective (omega) to defend.
Its surrounded by turrets preventing a light mech rush, there are two-three gates(alpha beta gamma), each with turrets, and a gate generator behind them.. the gategen must be destroyed by snipers in order for the gate to open. you only get 4 lives. [4 push attempts, usually]
so in a 10v10 match, each player would only get to respawn an additional 3 times. this means each spawn is precious, so a coordinated attempt must be made at pushing the objective. teamwork is key. (straggling in to 'reinforce' the survivors is usually a bad idea. waiting to regroup as 10 again is the best way to do it. due to the defenders respawning close to their defend objective, and the attackers spawning far)
i dunno. pm me if you want to know the name of this fun game so you can do some 'research' ;D
it could easily be adapted to the SH siege map.
also, foundry foundry foundry deja vu
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
-Kymos
-CAN YOU REMOVE THOSE STEALTH RINGS AND DRAINS FROM PVP!! ... how long we have to ask for it, is like ... jesus ..
-Class Balance (like GF, 1 shot Tr's, etc)
-Many others, if you read the forum you will see what is wrong
EDIT:
I forgot something REALLY IMPORTANT, the queue system:
-solo players can't be playing against premade teams!!
-2k players can't be playing against 4k players
Something i really can't believe is:
Why you always trying to bring new content without fixing the existing, i mean is so illogical, if you make something new with a broken base, the result is obvious, the new content will be broken too.
PVP is totally impossible for new players. There is no way to consistently get a balanced match, no game mode in which they can learn the ropes. Too much power differential to make it worth even trying to fight for a few wins in a losing match.
You need to incentivize players that avoided PVP to come back and play (so that there is enough of a player base to allow for matchmaking), ensure that you will never put an EofA or Chocolat premade against a team that can't even dent them, and create means for average players to learn how to effectively PVP.
One thought: Allow the queue system to form premade vs. premade parties. My guild would love to put together two balanced teams and fight each other, remix the teams and try again. The current system of announcing "pop" in chat just doesn't cut it.
Another thought: Rather than, or in addition to, the queue system "doing it's best" to make a match how about listing all available teams (or if there are too many available teams, the ten closest matches). Let the party leader challenge one of the teams in the queue, and allow the challenged team to accept or decline. In the queue system, show the opposing team's classes and item levels (and LOCK their gear once they queue, so they can't put on the good stuff when the match starts).
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
are you still here or just run away with screaming
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
- Legio Invicta guild member
- Vermillion Alliance member
New mode suggestion :
1. 5 vs 5 football match like someone already did a video on YouTube, but make it formal into game.
#All player are immune to damge.
#At-will hit will move the ball little bit, encounter will be long pass, daily will be shooting hit.
#The match will end via the team who got 3 goal first.
2. Even number players Arena .
#A map has couple sub area/sessions, players are allocate to those sub area to do the 1 vs 1 battle.
#the winner will be transfer to the other area to fight other winner until the last one stand still.
#reward base on how far of the play go.
#Each area are full of traps (buff/debuff/deadly damge) and will unique benefit for tank/striker/control/support or melee/range. Player should think about how to use the traps to take the advantages to win.
3. 5 vs 5 Dragon fight:
# a turn base game.
# there are two dragon fighting each other, blue dragon for blue team, the red dragon for red team.
# there are three nodes on the map, red node for attack, blue for defense, green for heal
# player have to take node for their's dragon's action on next turn.
# player can't damaged/heal the dragon, to do damge/heal, they have to take the red/green node.
# each turn has 1-2 mins to allow player to take nodes, each team only allow to take 1 node. If two team at the same node or failed to take any node, their dragon won't take any actions on next turn.
# match will be end if one of dragon been defeated or turns up to 10 round. If match end by time out, the dragon which has more health pointer, their team win.
4 flight and fight:
# there are no team, player are join and random fight.
# a map is full of the island on the air just like the quest tome of air. Player can jump high on the jump points or the map will randomly blow player up into air
5 5v5 Protection:
# 20 npc on the map.
# each team have catch those npc and transport them back to their camp.
# match will be end when all npc at camp. The team that has more npc in their camp will be win.
* 1 campfire for each team and empty field between them
* no win conditions: just endless round, it ends when all players leave it (without leave penalty)
* ability to queue to private matches of course
pros:
* 2v2 good for tournaments: 2 playes & 2 judges
* players can easely test their builds (it's easy to find 4 persons for it, much easily than 10 for domination match and much better than use Icewind Dale PVP zone) in 1vs1, 2vs2 and 1vs2 modes
* simple death match mode: a lot of players like to fight than ride from one map corner to another
* devs can collect statistic for class balancing much easier