Remove AD from PvP

gankdalf · April 2016

I suggest to remove all AD from PvP. Why? Because its flooded with players that dont really want to PvP and are only there for the AD. They make no effort to gear up or win and that ruins the whole PvP experience for everyone who actually wants to PvP.

As a PvPer I rather wait 10 min for a match against players who wants to PvP rather than going up against "pugs" match after match that makes no effort at all and has PvE gear with 0 tenacity.

You can add the loss of AD to something else like Stronghold PvP or GG that needs more players.

EDIT:

I changed my mind. Removing the AD from PvP is not the best solution. Gating behind a win is. Together with tenacity gear for AD or other currencies that is not gained by PvPing would make PvP a much better experience.

I mean who came up with that? "Lets force beginners to do PvP against tenacity geared players before they can get the gear needed to have a chance to win"...

I also strongly support the suggestions made by @josiahiyon

2 suggestions to improve quality of life for PVE and PVPers:

(1) As stated above, consider pvp wins in Domination, GG, and siege the same as completing an HE in the stronghold. i.e. give up to 400 influence a day from this, but not in addition to the 400 influence gained from HEs. Just as another option. 5 wins in any of these 3 pvp formats provides 400 influence per day, in the same way that HEs do (150, 120, etc).

I'm going to retract what I said earlier about agreeing to remove AD. Instead of removing the AD reward in PVP, I suggest doubling it but putting it behind a 'Win' filter. Have to win to get the AD.

(2) Remove and replace glory and conquerer shards from stronghold building requirements. Then, add a glory vendor that allows players to exchange glory earned in pvp for vouchers that they can donate to their stronghold coffer.

This removes the obligatory pvp requirement put on PVE players in order to build their barracks, and simultaneously removes the obligatory pve requirement put on PVP players in order to build their stronghold.

bedwyer · April 2016

I second this, pvp may not be the devs favorite part of the game, but to some of us loyal customers it is most definitely the best part of Neverwinter. Please re-embrace pvp for us that have supported NW from day 1...making a solid pvp format would give reward to end gamers and solve the issue of over geared players literally walking through dungeons designed for other needs...

userutf8 · April 2016

I saw here on forum something like "Q for pvp, beg enemy team to let you cap = you get AD + glory(=more AD), do it on all alts". So ridiculous. They should have removed AD from PVP long ago. Also, maybe it's a good idea to make glory BoA.

ghoulz66 · April 2016

People are there to get slaughtered by 4ks, not to pvp.

PvP, PK, not the same thing. Blame the DEVs for making the barracks require conq shards. Even if you have T2 pvp gear you will still get murdered. PvP revolves around enchants, mount bonuses and so much more now than simply tenacity.

wildfirede · April 2016

One word: Ladder

zibadawa · April 2016

Four words: Nuke it from orbit

throsbi · April 2016

Wait I thought you only got AD if you won in pvp? If you get it for loosing count me in. I could hold the run key while i drink my morning coffee, get some AD, glory and those other things. Heck maybe even start on the pvp campaign. Looking at that with zero progress.....AD for loosing too? Really?

Honestly thought it was a win only reward, even if it is for loosing if they removed the ad you still have people for the SH requirement. Lets remove that too. Heck remove everything but the glory and only if you win. Lets do that so all the pvp crowd can only worry about serious pvp players right? I hope you like waiting about 8 hours for a que to pop and spend about 1 minute or less before you get slaughtered by a 4k premade pvp group.....just sayin, be careful what you wish for.

greywynd · April 2016

Remove Tenacity from the game. Remove the need for separate gear for PvP.

zibadawa · April 2016

throsbi said:
Wait I thought you only got AD if you won in pvp? If you get it for loosing count me in. I could hold the run key while i drink my morning coffee, get some AD, glory and those other things. Heck maybe even start on the pvp campaign. Looking at that with zero progress.....AD for loosing too? Really?

Honestly thought it was a win only reward, even if it is for loosing if they removed the ad you still have people for the SH requirement. Lets remove that too. Heck remove everything but the glory and only if you win. Lets do that so all the pvp crowd can only worry about serious pvp players right? I hope you like waiting about 8 hours for a que to pop and spend about 1 minute or less before you get slaughtered by a 4k premade pvp group.....just sayin, be careful what you wish for.

You get rewards as long as you hit 400 points, and all the AD rewards care about is if you hit that threshold.

vinceent1 · April 2016

we need quite the opposite. increase the rewward from pvvp to be more attractive, more players play it and you dont have bis players involved in every match. playerbase is still here

subnocte · April 2016

I queue to PvP but I only do it if the AD reward is available, since 90% of the time I'm matched against 4k premades. Since most matches are standing around waiting for the end, the only incentive is the AD.

I think removing AD from PvP in its current state would kill it off completely.

arabatur · April 2016

zibadawa said:

throsbi said:
Wait I thought you only got AD if you won in pvp? If you get it for loosing count me in. I could hold the run key while i drink my morning coffee, get some AD, glory and those other things. Heck maybe even start on the pvp campaign. Looking at that with zero progress.....AD for loosing too? Really?

Honestly thought it was a win only reward, even if it is for loosing if they removed the ad you still have people for the SH requirement. Lets remove that too. Heck remove everything but the glory and only if you win. Lets do that so all the pvp crowd can only worry about serious pvp players right? I hope you like waiting about 8 hours for a que to pop and spend about 1 minute or less before you get slaughtered by a 4k premade pvp group.....just sayin, be careful what you wish for.
You get rewards as long as you hit 400 points, and all the AD rewards care about is if you hit that threshold.

So what is the minimum effort required to get 400 points, die x amount of times? I want a slice of this AD pie!

vinceent1 · April 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
"I think removing AD from PvP in its current state would kill it off completely." - @subnocte

The only thing this change would kill is:

"Since most matches are standing around waiting for the end, the only incentive is the AD." - @subnocte

No ADs as reward = only player who really want to PvP will join Domination. PvEer can stay out!

Had yesterday a pretty balanced match, apperently, one guy from my team stopped fighting for no reason! After I called him to keep helping the team... he says: "just want the AD".

The score was at like 600-550. If it wasn't forbidden for me to vote kick him... well, you know what I would've done.

So, yes I do agree with OP, ADs must be removed from PvP, from domination at least!

and what about remove AD from pve? i am tired of speed runs so finally i can enjoy true pve and dont care about AD....

zibadawa · April 2016

arabatur said:
So what is the minimum effort required to get 400 points, die x amount of times? I want a slice of this AD pie!

Cap 2 nodes, they're 300 each. That's why if a team gives up the other one will let them do a few caps. Anything more than 400 points on everyone is just wasting time, though often times teams will just trade a cap over and over and over...

throsbi · April 2016

zibadawa said:

arabatur said:
So what is the minimum effort required to get 400 points, die x amount of times? I want a slice of this AD pie!
Cap 2 nodes, they're 300 each. That's why if a team gives up the other one will let them do a few caps. Anything more than 400 points on everyone is just wasting time, though often times teams will just trade a cap over and over and over...

years ago when i actually pvp thats what we did, why you ask, because it builds glory for all

more points more glory

o wait so now we need to remove glory because we are all just cap trading for the free glory..............

iandarksword · April 2016

Removing the AD rewards worked wonders for the Foundry...nobody's interested in playing quests anymore.

silverkelt · April 2016

ah this thing again..

no new scrubs in my pvp match! only established players please!

its not the new scrubs problem that cryptic couldnt figure out matching 2-3 years ago when it was needed.

In addition.. MAKING AD in pvp is the WORST per minute return in the game. By a large margin.

By roughly 60-70% less ad per minute then running PVE in fact. Terrible return.

I know there were some bots hanging around every once in awhile.. but that same issue can also happen in pve (old tiamat days)

a simple random a/b/c captcha couldve prevented those (you are about to pvp, do you want to a. pvp. b. im a got or c/ im a bot.. then random making the answer pvp from a/b/c on every dom/gg match.

demonmonger · April 2016

Removing ad from pvp might be nice...

darkstarcrash · April 2016

As ghoulz66 said, many people like me only pvp to get Conqueror's Shards for the barracks. Unfortunately, you need a win to get the shards, so it can be a waste of an hour trying to find a match of equally-mediocre pugs rather than premades that just stomp my team into the ground.

Why a Power boon had to be tied to pvp, I do not know.

demonmonger · April 2016

I just want the bots gone

jaysun1977 · April 2016

ejziponken said:
I suggest to remove all AD from PvP. Why? Because its flooded with players that dont really want to PvP and are only there for the AD. They make no effort to gear up or win and that ruins the whole PvP experience for everyone who actually wants to PvP.

As a PvPer I rather wait 10 min for a match against players who wants to PvP rather than going up against "pugs" match after match that makes no effort at all and has PvE gear with 0 tenacity.

You can add the loss of AD to something else like Stronghold PvP or GG that needs more players.

First you need to remove the conquerer shard requirements from the barracks. It's the main reason players that don't want to participate in the atrocity that Cryptic calls a pvp system are found in domination and gauntlegrym matches.

urlord283 · April 2016

I had this discussion in PVP today.

If we want PVP to Grow and last we need new players.

AD is one way to entice players to try it out.

We should not remove it and we should have other rewards for all players, to get new players and keep old ones.

Urlord

almondum · April 2016

With all due respect OP and other supporters of this idea,

This should not happen, as it will only cripple PVP population even futher. Many people like the combat in this game, including the new players. If there won't be AD in PVP, noone will even try to step a foot there, and you will keep losing people and wait longer and longer for queues, until the day is night and full of terrors.
Please provide a good idea to bring new players to PVP, if you wish to remove the AD.

Have fun everyone,

Almondum.

jaysun1977 · April 2016

On a more serious note: PvP seems doomed in NWO. The engine can't reliably handle more than 5 players, leading to rubberbanding and connectivity issues. The matchmaking cannot function because there is not a large enough pool of players for it to do so, leading to unbalanced teams, which further alienate a lot of players. Then there is also the problem of class balancing. NWO is formerly a PvE game. More specifically a 5 person PvE game. That's what the engine was designed around and that's what it can reliably handle. As such its combat system follows a PvE pattern of increased damage vs increased hp pools. Sadly, player pools don't scale according to PvE Mob rules, resulting in an impossible balance job for anything other than PvE. PvP was tagged on top of it, probably on the behest of PWE because PvP is a cash cow. "Elite PvPers" will dump wagon loads of cash to get the best possible equipment. Individual contributions can beat USD 5,000.00 although I doubt that NWO still maintains such whales. Traditionally, they are also the biggest customers of RMT sites, leading to a whole different problem, but that's a rant for another time.

In between the casuals, forced into PvP because of conquerer shards for PvE buildings and casuals trying a first peak at PvP to see whether they like it on the one end and 4K freight trains on the other lie the actual PvP enthusiasts, doomed to suffer an impossible matchmaking, an impossible class balance and failing connection and server stability.

I don't even see Cryptic at fault here. They designed and promoted NWO around a 5 man PvE experience. It's not surprising that the publisher would ask for something more financilly pleasing than that and having to work PvP into a purely PvE engine is a tough cookie to swallow and a near herculean task.

I just can't see a bright future for PvP in this game.

throsbi · April 2016

iandarksword said:
Removing the AD rewards worked wonders for the Foundry...nobody's interested in playing quests anymore.

Have to agree here, kind of a crystal ball into how well it would work for pvp me thinks.

sockmunkey · April 2016

throsbi said:

iandarksword said:
Removing the AD rewards worked wonders for the Foundry...nobody's interested in playing quests anymore.
Have to agree here, kind of a crystal ball into how well it would work for pvp me thinks.

To be fair the foundry has more going against it then loss of AD. There is effectively no foundry at the moment until they can republish all the content. Been over two months and still waiting for it. So while there might be some truth in the argument. I suspect removing the content all together has more of an effect then just removing AD from it.

No content would be able to survive if it was treated like the foundry has been.

Remove AD from PvP

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