ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
At this point, any class using R12 bonding runestones, Lostmauth's set and a lot of critical strike is going to put out more damage than necessary in any content. Throw in a broken legacy armor set, and broken AP gain, and you pretty much have all your bases covered.
When non-class related stuff is making content trivial, the discussion about "which class is best" loses a lot of my interest.
At this point, any class using R12 bonding runestones, Lostmauth's set and a lot of critical strike is going to put out more damage than necessary in any content. Throw in a broken legacy armor set, and broken AP gain, and you pretty much have all your bases covered.
When non-class related stuff is making content trivial, the discussion about "which class is best" loses a lot of my interest.
I call bull**** on this, for simple reason, with 100% crit chance hr will have like 10% dmg from elol set, while gwf is around 40% and cw is around 45%.
And "more damage than necessary" part, i would not say that by any mean. When u have 0.02% chance for droping legend ring, all do u care about is if u will kill edemo in full 15min or in under 8 (assuming u r past point, "will i kill it at all?"), so in same amount of time u can do twice as much runs. Thats "necessary" dmg for u.
Dmg per se does not matter, dps from the other hand changes everything. I personaly would not mind 3h edemo fight (wipes not included) if at the end i would have legend ring of mu choice in chest (or random 5 rings i can take one from).
farming a legendary ring for the ammount +200 stats sounds like a big waste of time to me
It's 1040 usefull stats over the +4. 200 from the ring and 840 from the additional same type slot.
ah I did not see its 2x offense vs offense defense, sorry
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I gave up sharing builds and theory crafting outside of guild or friends.
Why?
Because of the outright lies and attacks going on right now in the forums.. go to almost any of the class subforums and you will see why.. a bunch of load of crock being posted and if you try to correct any of it.. even IN terms of service.. you get removed. Im flabbergasted that even the community manager got involved in this. In fact was very disappointed that dozens pages of valid information was removed. I dont know what is going on, but its a wholesale attack on the truth, which is disturbing. I really find it disturbing that poor new players have to put up with that and then spend money to revamp there toons when they find out how wrong it is.
on another note..
This game isnt like other games..
OTHER mmos: beat challenging content.. get high chance of item (50% plus to 100%) this mmo: beat middling to easy challenge 500 times and still not get what you want.
There is no reason not to build progress and build correctly, sure you can beat items, but when you have to beat items 500 times vs 4 times like in other games, you might as well kill stuff as quickly as possible.
RNG in this game is insane and only has increased. Challenge in this game is hard up to around 2.4-5k i level (with right builds ) and only decreases from there by staggering amounts as you continue to build. By the high 2's a average team built right at that level, will rip through all content.. by the mid 3ks its insanity.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
yes, mod 5 was ok imo SH boons, Tiamat, Paladin-class and this power creep just killed most fun in PVE and PVP ... not to talk about the dungeons
Sorry, but this nostalgic sentiment is wrong imo, mod 5 was bad, epicly bad. All t2 were not valid because t2 dropped from tiamat and was worth 5k AD per piece. No one did CN because the arti-gear set had higher base damage even at low ranks, we only did it tp pass the time. The power creep was at epic proportions, many could solo all t2 + cn (including ToS that was a DPS race at that time) without being close to BiS (rank 8 enchants and good old sets)
That the fix for the epicly bad mod 5 became the epicly bad mod 6 is a different problem, but 5 was bad.
Mod 1 had a full zone (graphically unique) with 4 mini dungeons 3 per area and AR + MotH + MC.
Mod 2 had a full zone, again with new assets with 3 mini lairs, DR skirmish, and VT dungeon.
Mod 3 had 3 new maps, the town and two IWD zones, which in my opinion are really pretty, it's a shame that bugs (like bugged domination), and some not in time corrected design flaws (can't swap instances or manage instances in oPvP, or the whole idea with BI infusion depleted over time) killed those zones. And here already only KR.
And then it started to go really wrong, with only elol (which is not bad as a skirmish but it's not a dungoen) and later tiamat (which was/is a pain because of the queue system) and all the rest of the dungeons are not worth the time... And we are still in the same boat since then, just the dungeons are officially missing and not only economically so we can't even go there for fun.
**I'm wrote it from memory, but I guess the idea is understood.
yes, mod 5 was ok imo SH boons, Tiamat, Paladin-class and this power creep just killed most fun in PVE and PVP ... not to talk about the dungeons
Sorry, but this nostalgic sentiment is wrong imo, mod 5 was bad, epicly bad. All t2 were not valid because t2 dropped from tiamat and was worth 5k AD per piece. No one did CN because the arti-gear set had higher base damage even at low ranks, we only did it tp pass the time. The power creep was at epic proportions, many could solo all t2 + cn (including ToS that was a DPS race at that time) without being close to BiS (rank 8 enchants and good old sets)
That the fix for the epicly bad mod 5 became the epicly bad mod 6 is a different problem, but 5 was bad.
Mod 1 had a full zone (graphically unique) with 4 mini dungeons 3 per area and AR + MotH + MC.
Mod 2 had a full zone, again with new assets with 3 mini lairs, DR skirmish, and VT dungeon.
Mod 3 had 3 new maps, the town and two IWD zones, which in my opinion are really pretty, it's a shame that bugs (like bugged domination), and some not in time corrected design flaws (can't swap instances or manage instances in oPvP, or the whole idea with BI infusion depleted over time) killed those zones. And here already only KR.
And then it started to go really wrong, with only elol (which is not bad as a skirmish but it's not a dungoen) and later tiamat (which was/is a pain because of the queue system) and all the rest of the dungeons are not worth the time... And we are still in the same boat since then, just the dungeons are officially missing and not only economically so we can't even go there for fun.
**I'm wrote it from memory, but I guess the idea is understood.
tbh, I only speak about a subjective aspect, not about YOURS and not about that of the mate two posts above, so is it possible for YOU to let ME state this and not be corrrected by a smart a.. "ok " doesn´t ment it was a neverending fun experience. But from my pov it was more fun as it is now ! Since I do not like to write epic posts as some ppl in this forum tend to do (I stop reading after 1 min) I keep is as short as possible to avoid repeating redundant stuff I do not care about YOUR motives to play this game but MY nearly disappeared during mod 6-7 an 8, got it?
yes, mod 5 was ok imo SH boons, Tiamat, Paladin-class and this power creep just killed most fun in PVE and PVP ... not to talk about the dungeons
Sorry, but this nostalgic sentiment is wrong imo, mod 5 was bad, epicly bad. All t2 were not valid because t2 dropped from tiamat and was worth 5k AD per piece. No one did CN because the arti-gear set had higher base damage even at low ranks, we only did it tp pass the time. The power creep was at epic proportions, many could solo all t2 + cn (including ToS that was a DPS race at that time) without being close to BiS (rank 8 enchants and good old sets)
That the fix for the epicly bad mod 5 became the epicly bad mod 6 is a different problem, but 5 was bad.
Mod 1 had a full zone (graphically unique) with 4 mini dungeons 3 per area and AR + MotH + MC.
Mod 2 had a full zone, again with new assets with 3 mini lairs, DR skirmish, and VT dungeon.
Mod 3 had 3 new maps, the town and two IWD zones, which in my opinion are really pretty, it's a shame that bugs (like bugged domination), and some not in time corrected design flaws (can't swap instances or manage instances in oPvP, or the whole idea with BI infusion depleted over time) killed those zones. And here already only KR.
And then it started to go really wrong, with only elol (which is not bad as a skirmish but it's not a dungoen) and later tiamat (which was/is a pain because of the queue system) and all the rest of the dungeons are not worth the time... And we are still in the same boat since then, just the dungeons are officially missing and not only economically so we can't even go there for fun.
**I'm wrote it from memory, but I guess the idea is understood.
tbh, I only speak about a subjective aspect, not about YOURS and not about that of the mate two posts above, so is it possible for YOU to let ME state this and not be corrrected by a smart a.. "ok " doesn´t ment it was a neverending fun experience. But from my pov it was more fun as it is now ! Since I do not like to write epic posts as some ppl in this forum tend to do (I stop reading after 1 min) I keep is as short as possible to avoid repeating redundant stuff I do not care about YOUR motives to play this game but MY nearly disappeared during mod 6-7 an 8, got it?
I think you should consider @micky1p00 's post as a general comment on this nostalgia people feel, and not directed directly at you, even though you were quoted.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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yes, mod 5 was ok imo SH boons, Tiamat, Paladin-class and this power creep just killed most fun in PVE and PVP ... not to talk about the dungeons
Sorry, but this nostalgic sentiment is wrong imo, mod 5 was bad, epicly bad. All t2 were not valid because t2 dropped from tiamat and was worth 5k AD per piece. No one did CN because the arti-gear set had higher base damage even at low ranks, we only did it tp pass the time. The power creep was at epic proportions, many could solo all t2 + cn (including ToS that was a DPS race at that time) without being close to BiS (rank 8 enchants and good old sets)
That the fix for the epicly bad mod 5 became the epicly bad mod 6 is a different problem, but 5 was bad.
Mod 1 had a full zone (graphically unique) with 4 mini dungeons 3 per area and AR + MotH + MC.
Mod 2 had a full zone, again with new assets with 3 mini lairs, DR skirmish, and VT dungeon.
Mod 3 had 3 new maps, the town and two IWD zones, which in my opinion are really pretty, it's a shame that bugs (like bugged domination), and some not in time corrected design flaws (can't swap instances or manage instances in oPvP, or the whole idea with BI infusion depleted over time) killed those zones. And here already only KR.
And then it started to go really wrong, with only elol (which is not bad as a skirmish but it's not a dungoen) and later tiamat (which was/is a pain because of the queue system) and all the rest of the dungeons are not worth the time... And we are still in the same boat since then, just the dungeons are officially missing and not only economically so we can't even go there for fun.
**I'm wrote it from memory, but I guess the idea is understood.
hmmm, mod5 was just beginning off disaster... well, Tiamat were, erhm, very playable if wanted trust RNG and player has high tolerance to anything...erm, very good...
I played mod5 few weeks and finished it from AH... :-/
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
tbh, I only speak about a subjective aspect, not about YOURS and not about that of the mate two posts above, so is it possible for YOU to let ME state this and not be corrrected by a smart a.. "ok " doesn´t ment it was a neverending fun experience. But from my pov it was more fun as it is now ! Since I do not like to write epic posts as some ppl in this forum tend to do (I stop reading after 1 min) I keep is as short as possible to avoid repeating redundant stuff I do not care about YOUR motives to play this game but MY nearly disappeared during mod 6-7 an 8, got it?
2. In what way I prevented from you to express anything ? If you express yourself in a public forum, people have a right to express their opinion too, even if it doesn't 100% compliant with yours. 3. You don't care ? Do not reply, it's not mandatory. It's my opinion, notice the "imo" in the first sentence. 4. You stated that Tiamat as part of the problem, Taiamt was the main thing that was added at mod5.
When I post I try to be clear, with English not as a first or even second language it takes some time. But I hope I didn't take more than 1 minute of yours. Have a good day, or at least a better one...
PS: My HAMSTER thanks you for the compliment, it's indeed savvy & intelligent.
Post edited by micky1p00 on
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
At this point, any class using R12 bonding runestones, Lostmauth's set and a lot of critical strike is going to put out more damage than necessary in any content. Throw in a broken legacy armor set, and broken AP gain, and you pretty much have all your bases covered.
When non-class related stuff is making content trivial, the discussion about "which class is best" loses a lot of my interest.
High Prophet is not a broken legacy armor set. It is WAI and it provides everyone attacking the target the same benefit as the user thus not impacting the dps chart ranking with the exception of the user who will rank lower (do to inferior stats).
GWF is so popular because it is the easiest to win damage without skill. Its the arcade version of NW but yes a skilled GWF will win.
Really to make the ranking you'd almost have to break it down by paragon. My 3.4 righteous DC stands with most equally geared dps (outside of gwf). Then of course there is the wildcard of having feytouched enchantment which can be kind on almost any class. I've seen TR's outdamaging GWF etc.
In theory what GWF gains from high attack speed and weapon damage proc's from lostmauth vs AOE from cw with lostmauth should put them a bit close, but it doesn't really work that way.
In any regard we know the dps chart is useless. As righteous using DOTs long fights heavily favor me. In fact I could probably do major damage if i removed my buff/debuff powers to slow the fight and give my DOTs more time to proc. If i do end up in a low dps team where we are going mob by mob instead of larger pulls I often win the dps (even if there is another 3+ ilvl or 2 in party.
Point is damage doesn't matter, contribution matters. But if a persons enjoyment in the game is based on that dps chart and they are not gwf, yeah it may be time to find another grind to full fill your time.
Wait a minute you mean arcade mode those gwf with a decent gear 2.5k vorpal lostmauth etc go down 1 hit from scorpions in e lol if they dont have bubble?
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
The way I would rank the party dps is fairly simple: 2 GWF/SW or 1GWF/SW supported by 1 MoF CW, 1 Righteous DC and 1 GF. It doesn't get higher then that.
Wait a minute you mean arcade mode those gwf with a decent gear 2.5k vorpal lostmauth etc go down 1 hit from scorpions in e lol if they dont have bubble?
If those gwf go down it is because they decided to not move out of the red. Red tends to kill people. BIS people can also die in red if they were not properly prepared to face tank the incoming damage.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
GWF is so popular because it is the easiest to win damage without skill. Its the arcade version of NW but yes a skilled GWF will win.
Really to make the ranking you'd almost have to break it down by paragon. My 3.4 righteous DC stands with most equally geared dps (outside of gwf). Then of course there is the wildcard of having feytouched enchantment which can be kind on almost any class. I've seen TR's outdamaging GWF etc.
In theory what GWF gains from high attack speed and weapon damage proc's from lostmauth vs AOE from cw with lostmauth should put them a bit close, but it doesn't really work that way.
In any regard we know the dps chart is useless. As righteous using DOTs long fights heavily favor me. In fact I could probably do major damage if i removed my buff/debuff powers to slow the fight and give my DOTs more time to proc. If i do end up in a low dps team where we are going mob by mob instead of larger pulls I often win the dps (even if there is another 3+ ilvl or 2 in party.
Point is damage doesn't matter, contribution matters. But if a persons enjoyment in the game is based on that dps chart and they are not gwf, yeah it may be time to find another grind to full fill your time.
Wait a minute you mean arcade mode those gwf with a decent gear 2.5k vorpal lostmauth etc go down 1 hit from scorpions in e lol if they dont have bubble?
Yes, in case the GWF is able to step out of the red spots and do another step the moment the scorp is doing his "unpredictable , fast attack" , being unstoppable you even can tank that boss for some moments 2,5kGS compared to other games this is "arcade mode" for all classes and GWF is the king of these arcade classes but that´s ok imo, having a bad day it´s good to play arcade mode
I upgraded my GWF two days ago, buying the lostmauth horn, went back to damage spec SM-destroyer, this time is stick with "lia knowles" good spec for sure The damage is silly. I can understand every other class being frustrated, having legendary twisted set, mystic artifacts, a companion with fakn expensive bondings, rank 10-11 enchants, and all boons compared to these GWF´s with elemental weapon, 3xpurple 1x blue artifact, outdated gear, missing boons.
At this point, any class using R12 bonding runestones, Lostmauth's set and a lot of critical strike is going to put out more damage than necessary in any content. Throw in a broken legacy armor set, and broken AP gain, and you pretty much have all your bases covered.
When non-class related stuff is making content trivial, the discussion about "which class is best" loses a lot of my interest.
Truth. Anyone can blow through any content at this point. Just a matter of how fast.
3.5k HB Temptation -- Dread Legion Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok My Guide
Comments
When non-class related stuff is making content trivial, the discussion about "which class is best" loses a lot of my interest.
And "more damage than necessary" part, i would not say that by any mean. When u have 0.02% chance for droping legend ring, all do u care about is if u will kill edemo in full 15min or in under 8 (assuming u r past point, "will i kill it at all?"), so in same amount of time u can do twice as much runs. Thats "necessary" dmg for u.
Dmg per se does not matter, dps from the other hand changes everything. I personaly would not mind 3h edemo fight (wipes not included) if at the end i would have legend ring of mu choice in chest (or random 5 rings i can take one from).
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Why?
Because of the outright lies and attacks going on right now in the forums.. go to almost any of the class subforums and you will see why.. a bunch of load of crock being posted and if you try to correct any of it.. even IN terms of service.. you get removed. Im flabbergasted that even the community manager got involved in this. In fact was very disappointed that dozens pages of valid information was removed.
I dont know what is going on, but its a wholesale attack on the truth, which is disturbing. I really find it disturbing that poor new players have to put up with that and then spend money to revamp there toons when they find out how wrong it is.
on another note..
This game isnt like other games..
OTHER mmos: beat challenging content.. get high chance of item (50% plus to 100%)
this mmo: beat middling to easy challenge 500 times and still not get what you want.
There is no reason not to build progress and build correctly, sure you can beat items, but when you have to beat items 500 times vs 4 times like in other games, you might as well kill stuff as quickly as possible.
RNG in this game is insane and only has increased.
Challenge in this game is hard up to around 2.4-5k i level (with right builds ) and only decreases from there by staggering amounts as you continue to build. By the high 2's a average team built right at that level, will rip through all content.. by the mid 3ks its insanity.
SH boons, Tiamat, Paladin-class and this power creep just killed most fun in PVE and PVP ... not to talk about the dungeons
All t2 were not valid because t2 dropped from tiamat and was worth 5k AD per piece.
No one did CN because the arti-gear set had higher base damage even at low ranks, we only did it tp pass the time.
The power creep was at epic proportions, many could solo all t2 + cn (including ToS that was a DPS race at that time) without being close to BiS (rank 8 enchants and good old sets)
That the fix for the epicly bad mod 5 became the epicly bad mod 6 is a different problem, but 5 was bad.
Mod 1 had a full zone (graphically unique) with 4 mini dungeons 3 per area and AR + MotH + MC.
Mod 2 had a full zone, again with new assets with 3 mini lairs, DR skirmish, and VT dungeon.
Mod 3 had 3 new maps, the town and two IWD zones, which in my opinion are really pretty, it's a shame that bugs (like bugged domination), and some not in time corrected design flaws (can't swap instances or manage instances in oPvP, or the whole idea with BI infusion depleted over time) killed those zones.
And here already only KR.
And then it started to go really wrong, with only elol (which is not bad as a skirmish but it's not a dungoen) and later tiamat (which was/is a pain because of the queue system) and all the rest of the dungeons are not worth the time...
And we are still in the same boat since then, just the dungeons are officially missing and not only economically so we can't even go there for fun.
**I'm wrote it from memory, but I guess the idea is understood.
"ok " doesn´t ment it was a neverending fun experience.
But from my pov it was more fun as it is now !
Since I do not like to write epic posts as some ppl in this forum tend to do (I stop reading after 1 min) I keep is as short as possible to avoid repeating redundant stuff
I do not care about YOUR motives to play this game but MY nearly disappeared during mod 6-7 an 8, got it?
I played mod5 few weeks and finished it from AH... :-/
1. I quoted about 3 people in that chain (and it's a common sentiment that people want to roll back mods and remember only the good things). In addition it's a common effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fading_affect_bias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivity_effect
sorry, but 'The sun doesn't revolve around you'.
2. In what way I prevented from you to express anything ? If you express yourself in a public forum, people have a right to express their opinion too, even if it doesn't 100% compliant with yours.
3. You don't care ? Do not reply, it's not mandatory. It's my opinion, notice the "imo" in the first sentence.
4. You stated that Tiamat as part of the problem, Taiamt was the main thing that was added at mod5.
When I post I try to be clear, with English not as a first or even second language it takes some time. But I hope I didn't take more than 1 minute of yours. Have a good day, or at least a better one...
PS: My HAMSTER thanks you for the compliment, it's indeed savvy & intelligent.
Don't forget Mod 2 introduced us to artifacts and NWs most popular mini-games Feed The RP and Will It Crit
2 GWF/SW or 1GWF/SW supported by 1 MoF CW, 1 Righteous DC and 1 GF. It doesn't get higher then that.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
compared to other games this is "arcade mode" for all classes and GWF is the king of these arcade classes
I upgraded my GWF two days ago, buying the lostmauth horn, went back to damage spec SM-destroyer, this time is stick with "lia knowles"
The damage is silly.
I can understand every other class being frustrated, having legendary twisted set, mystic artifacts, a companion with fakn expensive bondings, rank 10-11 enchants, and all boons compared to these GWF´s with elemental weapon, 3xpurple 1x blue artifact, outdated gear, missing boons.
Xbox GT -- Mr Shabok
My Guide