Metagaming is any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.
Please stop mis-using this word. If it is the norm to produce results, it can not be described as meta. Example : If there is a strategy that goes beyond dealing damage, and killing other players to win, then that is what we can call meta.
@clonkyo1 i don't mean you at this one man, i see you using quotation marks when you used it.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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idontwinitskkMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 43Arc User
GWF has not been good in PVP since they took our prones and damage resistance. GF, on the other hand, is beast. They can reflect your damage hiding behind a shield while murdering you and tossing you around like a ragdoll.
GWF is a class that almost entirely relies on it's ridiculous gear scaling potential which has been the highest out of any class since the game launched to bypass it's inefficient base mechanics.To put it simply - it's a class 100% designed around end game.Most people that play GWF will never understand just how toxic this design is because they will never achieve high enough gear levels to witness just how insane GWF scaling is.
Removal of prones and DR coincided with the first major spike in power creep allowing for the proliferation of a build i believed to be mechanically awful yet very combat viable- Intimidation Sentinel.So no,even during that time when GWFs were at their worst they still had a viable end-game build that wasn't balanced by any means(again - useless at low gear levels,potentially aoe 2 shots anything at end game).
Whenever Cryptic introduces some massive power creep spike is when GWFs immediately become problematic.Since the changes you are refering to GWFs have received a massive damage buff,a terrific ranged nuke that also gives a massive damage buff(absolutely uncalled for), all of that then followed up with all the power creep in the world from gear,mounts(lol) and reworked enchantments to patch up every weakness they have.
What is unbelievable is that non-GWF-players still dont get that the class needs a huge buff to be able to perform outside Feytouched + Negation + Lostmauth combo. You can argue/discuss that Feytouched and Negation are "meta" thanks to their over performance, on which i will agree, and makes all classes "be broken", on which i will agree too. Problem comes when GWF-class plays outside those enchants if you want to compare the class with others OR, worse yet, you want to compare GWF class' encounters with other classes (all our CC is deflect-able, in example) .
We already stated that GWF's damage needs a tone down (and i think you still remember my changes on the class), yes, but not just that, it needs a real improvement on other mechanics because most of them are plain outdated and almost useless.
while i dont necessary agree with what you are saying let's assume you are right for a moment. if your considerations are right we can conclude a "TR needs a huge buffs to be able to perform outside high recovery + shockings + negation + lostmauth combo". all CC are deflect-able, there are even some classes totally uneffected by them
meta gears means it works best, meta gears means highly diffused combination of items. and its around that you evalue class performances.
the common perception is that a TR uses shocking every 10 seconds. The common perception is that outside that broken source of damage they hit low.
the common perception is that a CW is tanky and doesnt have absurd control outside of repel. (no one consider terror + oppressor..its not the meta)
the common perception is that a GWF hits ridicolously hard and its tanky while being unaffected by control.
In these conditions asking for gwf buffs is just ridicolous, so ridicolous that i m starting to ask around if it s some sort of new internet meme trolling.
So let's back to topic. For example: 10:01- Stoner- 102k anvil to BiS HR ( Probably with DC buff but still....thats just stupid). If he would have under 40% hp....200k welcome to
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Nothing personal, guys, but....blah, blah blah. (Reaches for good book) You are very repetitive. Same people, same schtick, all the time, all the threads.
I only have one problem with GFs. It seems that whenever I feel I have anticipated their move and "clearly" activated my power, that they can plow right through it.
Perhaps they actually did beat me to it (I have a GF but I'm not a PvP GF expert by any stretch) and it only seems like I beat them to it. Their damage, although formidable, wouldn't bother me at all if combat against them didn't feel this way at times.
That being said, there seems to be quite a difference between more disciplined GFs and the ones that are easier to kill. Obviously, the ones that significantly out-gear me are far more problematic, but that gap has been gradually closing.
I'm trying to be fair here. At this point in time, I'm leaning towards no nerf being necessary.
I'm not a conqueror GF so i can easily suggest this without being affected by it, there are certain feats like shield defense that we can move further up the protector feat tree. They can probably swap it with balanced shield fighter, and boost inspiring leader(which is high up the tactician feat tree) to improve ITF by 15% instead of 5%. In this effect conquerors will be have their ITF buff reduced by 10% and their DR reduced by 10%.
I have one question though, if you take away the ability for a conqueror to one cycle his target once he catches him off guard, what will he do after?
Post edited by oliboyph on
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Back into the main topic: Not onlt Conq GFs can one shot other classes. In fact, all trees can do so. Conq only makes it "easier" thanks to its capstone but the main "mechanic" behind those insane numbers vs geared players is ItF + High DR.
One shot? Are you sure about that? I mean without the last 3 feats of conqueror GF's miss out on 25%-50% damage boost. And as we see in the videos you guys post about over powered GF's he has to use full rotation to kill and that is against low geared players as he says in his video.
Anyway like i said if we move any of the DR boosting feats further up the tree, it would make it impossible for GF's to combine damage feats and DR feats.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Back into the main topic: Not onlt Conq GFs can one shot other classes. In fact, all trees can do so. Conq only makes it "easier" thanks to its capstone but the main "mechanic" behind those insane numbers vs geared players is ItF + High DR.
One shot? Are you sure about that? I mean without the last 3 feats of conqueror GF's miss out on 25%-50% damage boost. Anyway like i said if we move any of the DR boosting feats further up the tree, it would make it impossible for GF's to combine damage feats and DR feats.
With "one-shot" i wanted to mean "one rotation". My apologies on that.
I see. Well like i said, i have no problem in forcing GF's to choose between damage burst, DR, or Buff. But again what will a GF do if they can't punish people they catch off guard?
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Dude you are a fool keeping playing like us, dont act like a smart one
OK, you do have a point. :-) I'll skip the threads, I've already cut my PVP in half. Didn't mean to be *really* disreapectful, just pointing out that every thread seems to be drawn into every other thread.
My 2 cents: Every class got something too powerful, and something too weak. Which doesn't mean it's balanced. Just that it's all bad design that leads to unbalanced situations. The secret to balance is to tone down what's too much, and buff what's too weak. It's not just "nerf" or buff". It's a balance of both. You "nerf" what's overperforming, and balance by buffing what's underperforming, until you find a mid-point where you have multiple powerful tools and mechanics, but nothing really "too powerful". So, basically, right now almost every class needs a nerf to a specific aspect AND a counter-buff to others.
All classes have mechanics to dodge, ITC, block vor shield burst damage, right? I do not see any point why a TR or some other classes are the ones who should judge about this topic. F.e. TR is : Dodge Dodge roll roll, deflect deflect, ITC, invisible Not the best target for a GF Conquerer to do his onerotation, right? Every conquerer (it is this one build) one- or twoshot most warlocks with ease, they even do not need BIS (thats the guys with 150k crits from one encounter), 2.8IL is sufficient, some power, some arp and you onerotate a warlock him having all defences up, even his 60% DR-laser-beam-buff. So many opinions from player that run classes which are not affected most time...
All classes have mechanics to dodge, ITC, block vor shield burst damage, right?
I do not see any point why a TR or some other classes are the ones who should judge about this topic.
F.e. TR is : Dodge Dodge roll roll, deflect deflect, ITC, invisible
Not the best target for a GF Conquerer to do his onerotation, right?
Every conquerer (it is this one build) one- or twoshot most warlocks with ease, they even do not need BIS (thats the guys with 150k crits from one encounter), 2.8IL is sufficient, some power, some arp and you onerotate a warlock him having all defences up, even his 60% DR-laser-beam-buff.
So many opinions from player that run classes which are not affected most time...
Erhm no, thats just lies. Sure the GF burst dmg is high, but IF you crybabies getting it nerfed the class will be useless again. And some SWs heals like a MF and deal insane dmg. I think u just have a bad build, low gs and might not be very good at what u are doing.
Seriously are GF's Burst-dmg same as Piercing-dmg? something weird is going on with Gf,
How is possible that i take massive dmg during Unstoppable from a single GF (it was ignoring unstoppable), a GF was hitting me 40k/50k with single hits like nothing and i was doing him basically zero dmg.
You say Gwf's dmg is high But look first to GF OMG, its impossible to fight a GF solo, that Burst-dmg which is going out is absurd high, of course they don't do like TR 100k+ SE, But Every single hit is doing 40k+ Constantly,
its is Ignoring DR definitely!
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Seriously are GF's Burst-dmg same as Piercing-dmg? something weird is going on with Gf,
How is possible that i take massive dmg during Unstoppable from a single GF (it was ignoring unstoppable), a GF was hitting me 40k/50k with single hits like nothing and i was doing him basically zero dmg.
You say Gwf's dmg is high But look first to GF OMG, its impossible to fight a GF solo, that Burst-dmg which is going out is absurd high, of course they don't do like TR 100k+ SE, But Every single hit is doing 40k+ Constantly,
its is Ignoring DR definitely!
PvP is all about stacking that ArP. get an axebeak and ArP boon and wahey you'll be eating through that DR. any class can do this.
Comments
Please stop mis-using this word. If it is the norm to produce results, it can not be described as meta. Example : If there is a strategy that goes beyond dealing damage, and killing other players to win, then that is what we can call meta.
@clonkyo1 i don't mean you at this one man, i see you using quotation marks when you used it.
Removal of prones and DR coincided with the first major spike in power creep allowing for the proliferation of a build i believed to be mechanically awful yet very combat viable- Intimidation Sentinel.So no,even during that time when GWFs were at their worst they still had a viable end-game build that wasn't balanced by any means(again - useless at low gear levels,potentially aoe 2 shots anything at end game).
Whenever Cryptic introduces some massive power creep spike is when GWFs immediately become problematic.Since the changes you are refering to GWFs have received a massive damage buff,a terrific ranged nuke that also gives a massive damage buff(absolutely uncalled for), all of that then followed up with all the power creep in the world from gear,mounts(lol) and reworked enchantments to patch up every weakness they have.
if your considerations are right we can conclude a "TR needs a huge buffs to be able to perform outside high recovery + shockings + negation + lostmauth combo".
all CC are deflect-able, there are even some classes totally uneffected by them
meta gears means it works best, meta gears means highly diffused combination of items.
and its around that you evalue class performances.
the common perception is that a TR uses shocking every 10 seconds. The common perception is that outside that broken source of damage they hit low.
the common perception is that a CW is tanky and doesnt have absurd control outside of repel. (no one consider terror + oppressor..its not the meta)
the common perception is that a GWF hits ridicolously hard and its tanky while being unaffected by control.
In these conditions asking for gwf buffs is just ridicolous, so ridicolous that i m starting to ask around if it s some sort of new internet meme trolling.
Disintegrate tooltip is wrong. You're welcome.
Overall I think GF's are fine, but crying about cws? haha.
Xerxes - GWF
Eazy - DC
Tyrian - TR
I have one question though, if you take away the ability for a conqueror to one cycle his target once he catches him off guard, what will he do after?
Anyway like i said if we move any of the DR boosting feats further up the tree, it would make it impossible for GF's to combine damage feats and DR feats.
Every class got something too powerful, and something too weak. Which doesn't mean it's balanced. Just that it's all bad design that leads to unbalanced situations.
The secret to balance is to tone down what's too much, and buff what's too weak.
It's not just "nerf" or buff". It's a balance of both. You "nerf" what's overperforming, and balance by buffing what's underperforming, until you find a mid-point where you have multiple powerful tools and mechanics, but nothing really "too powerful".
So, basically, right now almost every class needs a nerf to a specific aspect AND a counter-buff to others.
I do not see any point why a TR or some other classes are the ones who should judge about this topic.
F.e. TR is : Dodge Dodge roll roll, deflect deflect, ITC, invisible
Not the best target for a GF Conquerer to do his onerotation, right?
Every conquerer (it is this one build) one- or twoshot most warlocks with ease, they even do not need BIS (thats the guys with 150k crits from one encounter), 2.8IL is sufficient, some power, some arp and you onerotate a warlock him having all defences up, even his 60% DR-laser-beam-buff.
So many opinions from player that run classes which are not affected most time...
something weird is going on with Gf,
How is possible that i take massive dmg during Unstoppable from a single GF (it was ignoring unstoppable), a GF was hitting me 40k/50k with single hits like nothing and i was doing him basically zero dmg.
You say Gwf's dmg is high But look first to GF OMG, its impossible to fight a GF solo,
that Burst-dmg which is going out is absurd high, of course they don't do like TR 100k+ SE,
But Every single hit is doing 40k+ Constantly,
its is Ignoring DR definitely!
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